Leatherbilly
Leatherbilly
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- Leatherbilly
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An eventual rework will happen for Leatherface but considering both Freddy and Pig are first, I was hoping a simple number tweak could be thrown onto the PTB to make him less miserable until then, as it's over a year out.
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Thoughts/comments/concerns welcome!
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@Delfador said:
I am surprised how well thought the survey actually is. I hope you guys can change something.Thanks! I'm surprised how many people responded so far, and how it doesn't seem anyone has overtly trolled it.
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Bump.
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@Poweas said:
Please can you list ur results on this forum too?I intend to, but I want to get statistically significant results first. Then, the Cannibal mains and I in the Basement Discord will create a rework concept based on these results to present to BHVR.
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@Theluckyboi said:
@Leatherbilly said:
@Theluckyboi said:
Legion worse than freddy? really?i think you people are exxagerating way too much, dont get me wrong, legion is bad but his power is not a total liability like nightmare.
give me any valid argument to say such barbaric statement
Freddy stalls survivors. Legion stalls himself.
Have you at least given him a chance?
Yes. He's absolute trash and not fun to play as or against. His chapter came with 6 million bugs and nobody likes him. All six perks are very average at best.
This chapter is the worst ever released and it's egregious it was published in this state.
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@Theluckyboi said:
Legion worse than freddy? really?i think you people are exxagerating way too much, dont get me wrong, legion is bad but his power is not a total liability like nightmare.
give me any valid argument to say such barbaric statement
Freddy stalls survivors. Legion stalls himself.
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Just refunding him.
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We're still here
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Bumping.
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@PhantomMask20763 said:
Is there some room for a poor poor sweater boi main???You certainly won't be the first Sweaterboi main.
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@TeaLeaf said:
Hello to you Sir or Madams, I am here to see if you have accepted Zappy Boi into your hearts?We have, and have a role for every killer. There's plenty of chili to go around!
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@IronWolf115 said:
@Someissues said:
@IronWolf115 said:
Well the ideal scenario is to buff him and give him things that he is better at than Billy and vice versa
Though I agree with you, the devs schedule on buffing Killers are kinda a joke, it took them a week or 2 to nerf Freddy after release, it won't be hard for them to revert some freddy changes like now, rather they said on response to Jen that Freddy will get buff eventually
meaning he have to wait 3 months, so Leatherface will have to wait 6 months, while they can easily do small changes that can be placeholder before actual rework
Oh yeah, I completely agree. I believe I also heard recently that mid chapter patches will mainly focus on the chapter that was just released so I have very little faith that LF will be buffed anytime soon
Would love to even know if he's going to be touched at all.
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Really wish Not Queen or someone could pop in and at least acknowledge Tinkerer's removal is a sackslap to Leatherface.
Least then the discussion could shift into whether or not he deserves compensation, and to what capacity.
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All are welcome regardless of main, including survivors
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Grand re-opening of the Basement!
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@Navydivea said:
@Leatherbilly said:
@PolarBear said:
They already said that they will be buffing the base power of all killers since tinkerer was overdoing it way too much.Well then they should do that with the Tinkerer change, not after it.
They only have so many coder writers. It's the reason updates take so long in the first place. They will get to him after they are done with non-licensed killers.
Why launch the Tinkerer change until all those affected have been properly addressed? Nobody is dying for this terrible, half-baked version of Tinkerer to hit live.
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@PolarBear said:
They already said that they will be buffing the base power of all killers since tinkerer was overdoing it way too much.Well then they should do that with the Tinkerer change, not after it.
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@HorsePower said:
Using Tuning Guide + Primer Bulb is almost the exact same thing with Tinkerer or not.The same thing applies when using both charge addons on huntress's hatchets (as an exmaple). You don't need tinkerer with those addons, as it really only applies a half second difference.
Not only is that still slower, you can't afford to always run Tuning Guide + Primer Bulb or you're running out extremely quickly.
Besides, they said they want to get rid of add-on dependency. His other add-ons aren't even bad for the most part, but they aren't viable because his power is watered down and he needs rev speed add-ons to even have a power at all.
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Power sure feels strong when people can walk through the side of the trap unscathed.
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@Eninya said:
I don't think I've ever seen a Leatherface even use Tinkerer.Judging by the poll data on this website, Leatherface has one of (if not the fewest) mains of any killer. I assure you, he's a solid killer with Tinkerer right now, and will become bottom mid tier after its gutted.
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Bump for visibility
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@IronWolf115 said:
@Judgement said:
Trapper shouldn’t be able to be hit by his own traps to begin with.
His entire theme is setting traps to catch his prey and he’s been doing it for an unknown amount of time in the name of the the entity - whether this has been going on for centuries or whatever in the Entity’s world.
And he still steps in his own traps.The Trapper should be unable to be caught by his own traps.
Especially with Iridescent Stone coming up, a trap could potentially open right under the Trapper’s feet while he’s in the middle of a chase and make him lose the chase because of such a ridiculous thing.Don't know if this would be the popular opinion, but I agree with you. After all the Clown can't get affected by his bottles ( I think he can through a glitch but that is a glitch so yeah )
I'm just bothered if they can walk around the hitbox but it fatshames me, or they Dead Hard over it, I have to pick it up or, if I can't carry another trap, just let them go.
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@Freudentrauma said:
@Leatherbilly said:
It would take nearly no time nor resources to deal with Leatherface's problems, Freddy requires an entire rework of his power.Thing is, that I assume that they would want to rework his basekit together with his AddOns, considering they want to bring all killers into the 4-5-5-4-2 like they did with Trapper.
I assume they would like to handle him together with Hillbilly, considering they share AddOns. I just hope they reconsider some stuff and help to make them more different.It would be trivial to increase his movement speed while swinging or while revving.
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@powerbats said:
Now now, wait your damn turn, let Trapper get his buffs 1st then Hag and Freddy. After that nerf Nurse down to mere inhuman status and then fix Leatherface.It would take nearly no time nor resources to deal with Leatherface's problems, Freddy requires an entire rework of his power.
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The placement bug really exacerbates this issue.
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@IronWolf115 said:
Jeez, I never even knew this happened.As if trapper wasn't already in a terrible position
Yeah his other buffs won't really accomplish much when his traps still fail to function at a fundamental level.
It's made worse by his setting bug, it might not be placed where you told it to and survivors can squeeze by it.
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@Master said:
@Leatherbilly said:
Leatherface has one important statistic and one alone, and that is his rev speed.If he gets anything less than full Tinkerer by default, the freed up perk slot he receives is irrelevant because his power will fail to function, and whatever perk he equips instead cannot make his power functional.
Reasons rev speed is so important:
- Breaks pallets faster
- Hits survivors before they get to windows
- Hits survivors before they get to pallets
- Hits survivors before they get to a large, loopable structure that he can't chase around because he'll Tantrum
- Faster movement speeds (spends less time in his slowed down revving state)
If we take the huntress changes as a benchmark, then his addons will even be nerfed
Please refrain from giving BHVR any ideas, thank you.
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@DocOctober said:
@Chi said:
It really doesn't need a longer time. If the survivor keeps looping, the same place even with the bamboozle on, then that is on you, not the perk.*edited, got distracted while writing.
Oh sure, it's my fault, not that of the map designer being an idiot.
The map designers for BHVR do one of the worst jobs I've ever seen in my entire life.
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I mean I have over 40 moris stocked on LF alone, and I gave a 4k away into a 2k to let the last 2 farm because one disconnected. We're not literally all being #########.
Ofc it's anecdotal and there are exceptions to every generalization but most people seem to be decent for me.
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BBQ has counters and is a decent perk that is mostly used for BP gains.
You want to talk about no counters, take a look at Sprint Burst. I can literally know you have Sprint Burst, exactly when you'll use it, and where you'll go; still can't do anything about it.
I could literally watch you Sprint Burst, go back in time to before you used it, and my play literally wouldn't change.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Leatherbilly said:
@Hillbilly420 said:
@IronWolf115 said:
@Leatherbilly said:
I wish BHVR would at least tell us if they plan to help him.I keep putting stuff on the forums about him, and I always try and ask in their streams and Q&A's but I have never heard anything. The only thing I have heard recently is that they plan to give him an ultra rare.
They tend to neglect the licensed Killers the most.
Yeah I know, but given Freddy's getting some attention, I was hoping the Cannibal would get some, too.
Maybe eventually? I wouldn't expect any kind of adjustments until maybe next year.
I know they said they'd adjust killers for the Tinkerer rework but hopefully he gets more than that.
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@Irisora said:
@IronWolf115 said:
@Irisora said:
By my experience at playing LF and facing him as survivor. I think what he needs its a buff to his addons specially with the nerf that is coming to tinkerer. Because as i said in another LF thread you can easily chainsaw survivors with the right addons: for example Carburator tuning guide ( rare decreased charge speed) and The Beast's Marks (rare chainsaw movement speed increase)The problem is that without those addons he's useless and can't catch up survivors. So in my opinion he needs a slight increase to his base chainsaw movement speed. And a buff to his addons due to the incoming nerf to tinkerer.
The issue there though is that he would still RELY on the add-ons to be useful, and a small buff to his movement speed DURING his chainsaw sprint wouldn't solve any issues. LF map presence is almost non-existant which would be fine if he was far more punishing at close range which he isn't right now. The ideal buffs would be that he can move at normal speed whilst revving the saw, acceleration is buffed to make him go much faster ( thus also buffing his chilli add-ons in the process ) and an add-on rework to give him more unique add-ons rather than just all of the Billy's add-ons.
Yes i can agree with that, LF relies heavily on his addons and without the correct ones he's a weak killer. So maybe instead of buffing the addons, his power could be buffed and the addons nerfed a bit or changed to compensate.Chilli addons needs to be fixed too.
That's definitely true, and the devs have said that generally speaking they want to address over-reliance on add-ons. That said, my goal was to give him a net buff as well.
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@IronWolf115 said:
@Irisora said:
@IronWolf115 said:
@Irisora said:
By my experience at playing LF and facing him as survivor. I think what he needs its a buff to his addons specially with the nerf that is coming to tinkerer. Because as i said in another LF thread you can easily chainsaw survivors with the right addons: for example Carburator tuning guide ( rare decreased charge speed) and The Beast's Marks (rare chainsaw movement speed increase)The problem is that without those addons he's useless and can't catch up survivors. So in my opinion he needs a slight increase to his base chainsaw movement speed. And a buff to his addons due to the incoming nerf to tinkerer.
The issue there though is that he would still RELY on the add-ons to be useful, and a small buff to his movement speed DURING his chainsaw sprint wouldn't solve any issues. LF map presence is almost non-existant which would be fine if he was far more punishing at close range which he isn't right now. The ideal buffs would be that he can move at normal speed whilst revving the saw, acceleration is buffed to make him go much faster ( thus also buffing his chilli add-ons in the process ) and an add-on rework to give him more unique add-ons rather than just all of the Billy's add-ons.
Yes i can agree with that, LF relies heavily on his addons and without the correct ones he's a weak killer. So maybe instead of buffing the addons, his power could be buffed and the addons nerfed a bit or changed to compensate.Chilli addons needs to be fixed too.
Yeah exactly. I'm sure I speak for most LF mains when I say that we don't want LF to be the new Nurse or anything like that. We just want him to live up to that close range punisher role that he is meant to be.
This.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@IronWolf115 said:
@Leatherbilly said:
I wish BHVR would at least tell us if they plan to help him.I keep putting stuff on the forums about him, and I always try and ask in their streams and Q&A's but I have never heard anything. The only thing I have heard recently is that they plan to give him an ultra rare.
They tend to neglect the licensed Killers the most.
Yeah I know, but given Freddy's getting some attention, I was hoping the Cannibal would get some, too.
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@xxaggieboyxx said:
Don't know if it was said or not I'm too lazy to look be he shouldn't move at the same speed while revving because then he would just constantly be revving and only release on a survivors backThat would broadcast his presence to every survivor on the map, to be fair.
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@Orion said:
Survivors just need to stop feeding campers. That's how you nerf camping.It'd still be a waste of his power budget, precisely because competent survivors already don't feed campers, thus entirely negating his purported "capacity to instant down multiple survivors."
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@IronWolf115 said:
@Leatherbilly said:
I wish BHVR would at least tell us if they plan to help him.I keep putting stuff on the forums about him, and I always try and ask in their streams and Q&A's but I have never heard anything. The only thing I have heard recently is that they plan to give him an ultra rare.
Not mentioning Leatherface is an unspoken rule of the Q&As.
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I wish BHVR would at least tell us if they plan to help him.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Leatherbilly said:
So many people missed the point, the game's imbalance is a multifaceted issue. The problem is gen time specifically relative to chase times.There is a profound disparity in time to complete objectives. Generators are ridiculously quick, and due to semi-infinite loops and 24 pallets, chases are obscenely long.
Longer generator times would be boring, and being looped for 2 gens is boring, so instead of extending gen times, let's shorten chase times by addressing these egregious loops and pallet density.
You're kinda missing the big one.
There's not much to the game beyond pallets/vaults, gens, and the small collection of items. There is only so much you can do with such a basic game.
Does no one question the fact that the only thing we can use to in a chase is the vanilla pallet, loops, and windows? It's the same few mechanics repeated twenty times in the whole game.
As for the objective, there are totems and gens. That's it.
Balancing gen time to chase time still leaves you with a virtually barren game. The only thing that spices it up are the different game modes (i.e. killers and perks) but even that gets stale because of the meta.
That's not missing the point. The developers have said they won't add other objectives.
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So many people missed the point, the game's imbalance is a multifaceted issue. The problem is gen time specifically relative to chase times.
There is a profound disparity in time to complete objectives. Generators are ridiculously quick, and due to semi-infinite loops and 24 pallets, chases are obscenely long.
Longer generator times would be boring, and being looped for 2 gens is boring, so instead of extending gen times, let's shorten chase times by addressing these egregious loops and pallet density.
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@IronWolf115 said:
@Leatherbilly said:
@Nickenzie said:
IronWolf115 said:Yeah I mean that is why im a little annoyed about how balancing in this game is right now, if it was simply that they had to release patches into the live server without the PTB then I understand a bit more. But they HAVE the PTB so I dont know why they can't try some big LF buffs or Freddy buffs or Wraith buffs, because then at least if it did prove to be too powerful they can just adjust it without fear of it being in the live servers.
@IronWolf115 I always wonder why they can't just try these changes on the PTB, however I'm just happy that there's one person who is thinking like me. Developers, go for it
Nothing to lose, it's a test site for a reason. It literally exists to test changes and prevent catastrophic imbalances/bugs reaching the live build.
Exactly, I honestly would just go crazy on the PTB and try all different things and then take it from there
Though honestly these changes aren't exactly crazy nor difficult to implement.
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Dead Hard is balanced as-is, Balanced Landing got the buff it needed and Lithe is a balanced version of Sprint Burst, lacking all of the problems it has.
That leads us to the problem child, Sprint Burst; nerf it and leave the other Exhaustion perks the Hell alone.
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@Nickenzie said:
IronWolf115 said:Yeah I mean that is why im a little annoyed about how balancing in this game is right now, if it was simply that they had to release patches into the live server without the PTB then I understand a bit more. But they HAVE the PTB so I dont know why they can't try some big LF buffs or Freddy buffs or Wraith buffs, because then at least if it did prove to be too powerful they can just adjust it without fear of it being in the live servers.
@IronWolf115 I always wonder why they can't just try these changes on the PTB, however I'm just happy that there's one person who is thinking like me. Developers, go for it
Nothing to lose, it's a test site for a reason. It literally exists to test changes and prevent catastrophic imbalances/bugs reaching the live build.
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Added a summary for those who just want the idea but not the explanations or justification.
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@SaltyKiller said:
@Leatherbilly said:
@SaltyKiller said:
Pro tip: include a TLDR. No one has time for that #########.Making him move faster when swinging the saw wouldn't do much. It would help but the difference wouldn't be too noticeable.
The BIG QOL change he needs is that he shouldn't be slowed down while revving the saw. That's the big kick to the balls for him. Because of that slowdown he can't bait them to throw down a pallet like Hillbilly. Not to mention that it's harder to catch up to them. If they use Sprint Burst or Lithe or even Dead Hard to get some distance he's screwed unlike Billy. Billy can catch right back up to them so long as they didn't make it to pallet land or window city.
A lot of people have different ideas on how to buff him. Some ideas are:
Making him way better at breaking pallets (assuming the first QOL change goes through). This can be achieved by having him recover much faster than Billy when breaking pallets AND when he swing his saw and they throw down a pallet he will either (A) always break it or (B) is not slowed down while breaking it so he could Juggernaut right through the pallet drop.
One of my ideas is that you lower his terror radius to about 24 like Hag is currently. This way you make more of a stealthy Billy when you put Monitor and Abuse on him. And it would be nice to have at least 3 Killers who would really benefit from Monitor and Abuse.
Now, my TLDR:
Give him normal movement speed when revving the saw like Billy.
And either make him better at breaking pallets or give him a lower terror radius.
Bubba is supposed to be slower than Billy, that's the whole trade-off. He's slower but supposed to be EXTREMELY dangerous once he's close to you.
The Tl;Dr is just reading my changes.
Sir, there is an edit button. Hit quote, copy/paste and then edit your post. I don't know why people on this forum have such difficulty using the edit button.
That said, Leatherface would still be slower than Billy for obvious reasons. He still can't sprint across the map. But, to repeat myself, the slow down when he's revving the saw is what destroys him when it comes to pallet looping.
To break it down so you understand:
When they're looping Billy by a pallet, he can bring out the saw and not get slowed down while revving. Which means that he can bait them to throw the pallet down much quicker than usual. And if they wait by the pallet you can mind game them and bring out your saw for a second, let them think you're revving it, and just melee them.
Leatherface can't do that because when he takes out his saw he is noticeably slowed down which just means that the instant they get to a pallet and he's on their ass and brings out his saw they can just keep running and loop again.
Removing the slow down when revving the saw would immensely help Leatherface. And everything else is just ideas to further differentiate him from Hillbilly.
Having no slow-down while revving is another change we discussed and I'd love to test. Both of these should be tested on the PBE, because Leatherface needs love.
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@MrDrakanator said:
To last forever might be kind of nuts combined with the chili because a few seconds in he's gonna be zoomin like sanic across the map, but yes maybe "tremendously increases the duration of the chainsaw attack" I can definitely get on board with.His speed actually has a cap, chili just helps reach said cap faster.
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@Dragonredking said:
@Leatherbilly said:
@Dragonredking said:
Basicly made him into even more of a hillbilly rip-offHe's already a weaker Hillbilly, except right now he has LITERALLY no advantage over him. With my changes, he will be better at close range.
No with your change you take away the only thing that make him different than the hillbilly.
His defensive capability and his power to punish extremely hard survivor missplacement and over altruism.With your change you might aswell delete him entirely and make him a hillbily skin.
No, I'm REPLACING his only advantage over the Hillbilly with something that he can actually abuse without automatically de-pipping. He could still punish altruism, and he could punish mis-positioning even harder than he currently does.
Right now there's no reason to ever choose Bubba over Billy except to grief survivors with a face-camp.
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@EclipseDarkstar said:
@SaltyKiller Exactly. He's a defensive character first and foremost. Good offense would be nice, but not at the cost of his primary existing strong suit. Without it he's kinda just Hillbilly with no map pressure.I'll be as concise as possible here, Leatherface has a single solitary strength above the Hillbilly, and that is his facecamping is easier to pull off. If you abuse that ONE strength he has over Billy, you're guaranteed to de-pip.
I'm trying to replace that with a strength over the Hillbilly you CAN abuse against competent players and still pip with.
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@salty_jim said:
Why not just play Hillbilly at that point? Leatherface's special thing is that he can down multiple people at once, take that away and you just have a handicapped HillbillyBecause that strength literally NEVER, EVER does anything against competent players at R1. I'm suggesting we replace that "strength" over the Hillbilly with one that actually matters and takes skill to use.
Besides, if you go ahead and facecamp as Leatherface, you're just de-pipping yourself to grief survivors.