Leatherbilly
Leatherbilly
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@FireHazard said:
I'd be surprised anyone mains Leatherface.
I P3-50'd him a few weeks ago and getting any semblance of a 4k took some clever thinking to pull off. It was hard enough not having Enduring and Spirit Fury unlocked when I finished him, but I had to use some other perk combos like Ruin and huntress's lullaby just to make some map pressure (It sometimes made a lot of pressure or none at all, but it worked pretty well towards the end of his P3-50)
Anyone who mains Leatherface (Whoever that is) can tell you the same thing, he isn't easy to apply pressure with.
We do exist, we just accept the fact that we have no power.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/496677#Comment_496677
I'm not invested mentally when it comes to how the emblem system currently works now, but I feel like @Orion might know.
That or someone he knows, but from what I can gather I guess having fast games won't progress the games emblem system very much for either side.
That, and you mori'ed them which anyone can tell you won't progress anything in your emblem system specifically. The game wants you to kick gens, hook survivors, and etc etc. Simple things anyone can do, but if you take a faster route I guess the results are usually half baked.
I would love to hear justification on how the Emblem system judged my performance appropriately when I killed 75% of their team yet earned 2 total victory points.
Again, I know why it happened, I just don't see how this system is doing a good job so far.
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@FireHazard said:
They changed things like hanging around hooks too much lower your emblem progress, or other such things.
How fast was this match btw?
I know they did, I'm saying they shouldn't have.
I mori'd the Obsession with 3 gens left, game took about 4 minutes.
EDIT: Five gens took about 4 minutes in total but the final person hung on hook for a while; felt it'd be dishonest to include that. The game effectively ended in 4 minutes.
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I really want to emphasize the problem of large map sizes. For most killers, a large map size means we waste an additional 20 seconds travelling from one generator to another when patrolling, but certain killers (Nurse/Hillbilly/Hag to name a few) completely negate this weakness.
Therefore, to avoid those three from totally butchering survivors, additional safety via pallets, hiding spots and jungle gyms have to be added. This just two-fold screws the weaker killers.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/496609#Comment_496609
It's not so much a matter of open/closed, there's a lot more we could do to change a loop. We could also open up a way, for example, which would shorten the loop and cause it to get blocked much sooner. Since maps like the Ironworks were created, we've come a long way and now have much better tools to determine how strong a loop can be and a better understanding of how we can limit that power.
My concern is that certain looping spots like the Ironworks may ostensibly seem fine when one examines the net survival rate, but a closer inspection may reveal that more experienced survivors can better exploit the map's design.
I myself whilst climbing the ranks questioned if the maps were improved (I've just returned from a hiatus) and as soon as I got back into the high ranks realized that whilst an inexperienced survivor may run me for 20 seconds at Ironworks, an experienced survivor will run me 3 times, then loop a pallet to remove the blocker, then loop the Ironworks again, and so on. Not to mention, some killers circumvent this issue better than others.
Is there data to substantiate this hypothesis? Also, is there a kill rate per map by killer? Certain maps completely demolish every killer save a few.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/496496#Comment_496496
The main issue is RNG tile placement
For example, there can be areas where even if you have Spirit Fury + Enduring and you break a pallet with Spirit Fury, the survivors can run to another pallet before you can hit them
Now imagine that, but without Spirit Fury + Enduring. Such spots waste massive amounts of time and the majority of killers have no way to deal with it. There is no skill involved from the survivors. The game just decided to give them a super safe area for free
It's much worse when what you described exists, but there's also a giant jungle gym or semi-infinite next to it. Now, they can run you through the infinite 3 times, then use the pallet, then run you through 3 more times.
Considering you have 4 minutes before 5 gens pop, you can't afford to spend a minute per hit when they could have instant heal and MoM, and you need 9 hooks; each hook taking from 2 to 3 hits to achieve.
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@Peanits said:
This seems relevant so I'll drop it here. Might spark some interesting conversations.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/428/BXPRCW4ZAOVV.jpg
Obviously survival rate alone doesn't paint a perfect picture, things like the ironworks window are totally valid criticism in spite of the average survival rate. A complete rework might be a little overkill for a map like Wretched Shop when the issue boils down to a single very strong loop, for example. It's a lot more helpful if we can identify why something is a problem rather than scrapping it completely and starting from scratch. If you don't know why something is an issue, you're doomed to repeat it.
My apologies, it was mostly a vent because I've gotten nothing but Depip Farms today.
ABSTRACT: Large maps widen the disparity between the haves and have-nots (mobility principally) and completely skew balance.
Further, maps that sport a lengthy time waster that cannot be mind gamed WITH pallets in an immediate proximity to it turn a 20 second loop into a minute long loop and killers whose powers do not affect looping will just lose due to gen times and map size.
Map specific grievances
Badham Preschool: Has an incredible amount of vaults, some of which turn into a minute and a half long loops with Balanced Landing. If the Basement doesn't spawn in the preschool bottom floor, it's nearly impossible (often literally impossible) to reach a hook.
Mount Ormond Resort: FPS drops and scratch marks failing to spawn aren't the only problems, as the map is quite large and littered with multi-palleted vaults.
Family Residence: Just too much clutter, the map really isn't too bad.
The Game: It's impossible to hide from the killer and as such certain killers (Doctor/Nurse come to mind) will completely bulldoze you. Consequently, 5,000 safe pallets were added. Not exactly a fun or skill-indexed match up.
Grim Pantry: The basement problem of the preschool happens here with the pantry itself, but markedly worse. Very easy to hide on this map which is great, except there are also an ocean of vaults and pallets.
Mother's Dwelling: Phenomenal map, just too large. One of the best maps artistically.
The Temple of Purgation: I love the design, just another map the size of a continent and that just dooms 90% of killers to depip versus any semblance of competency.
Lampkin Lane: Sorry it isn't helpful, but this one needs a complete overhaul because it has the works; plenty of areas to hide, two guaranteed true infinites but can RNG spawn a third, pallets everywhere and most of them are safe, large map and RNG can screw survivors by spawning 2 gens in one house with a third gen outside the door.
Disturbed Ward: The map is ENORMOUS and has an infinite. Another of those maps where Balanced Landing equates to invincibility against most of the Killer roster.
Wretched Shop: The center tile is still a ridiculous time waster and has a myriad of other vault loops to waste your time, then piles on an ocean of safe pallets for good measure.
Wrecker's Yard: Great map but is a little on the large side considering the sheer pallet quantity it provides. Another of those maps that just needs a tweak to become a solid map.
Rancid Abattoir: One of the worst maps in the game, a characteristic shared by every Coldwind map. This one sheds the problem of map size for just having chainable semi-infinites within such close proximity that even with proper corralling, they're still three steps from another mega loop.
Torment Creek: Loops as far as the eye can see, a semi-infinite main tile and safe pallets everywhere. Quite a large map as well, far larger than it needs to be.
Fractured Cowshed: Ridiculously large and full of safe pallets and time-wasting jungle gyms. The Cowshed is still a virtual safezone which is phenomenal when your basement is located there.
The Thompson House : Continues the trend of Coldwind; enormous and full of time wasters.
Rotten Fields: Literally a gigantic cornfield with safe pallets and jungle gyms on the outside. Needs a rework because without ridiculous loops, Hillbilly negates the map size and would bulldoze everyone.
Ironworks of Misery: The infinite window is absurd and even worse with BL.
It's worth noting that in general, the maps I listed are towards the top of the list. At high ranks in particular, these are just insurmountable as weaker killers.
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@Yaboi_Gengarboi said:
Agreed. So many of these maps are just dogshit, and arguably some are for both sides.
Hey want to play 95% corn? Oh, sorry, I mean Rotten fields?
Not to mention how a few have straight up infinites.
You know what you call a Myers main in the cornfield?
A stalker.
.....I'll see myself out.
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Leatherface's tantrum is NOT iconic in its current iteration,...He only ever did the chainsaw dance because a survivor got away, not because he came within 5 feet of a wall (or occasionally thin air).
The point of the Tantrum is to punish LF for playing poorly, and thematically he only ever did it because someone got away. The solution is therefore to make Leatherface tantrum whenever he uses his chainsaw but fails to hit a survivor or a pallet instead of a wall.
The problem with wall tantrums is that he moves so slowly right now he'll never ctach up and he cannot cut corners closely enough to gain distance; furthermore, there are over 30 bugged locaitons that tantrums him for no valid reason.
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@IronWolf115 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/495386#Comment_495386
Yeah I just feel that it is something quite unique to him, plus it is faithful to the movies.
The problem right now is it is just a massive hinderance to him whereas it should compliment him instead.
It's not faithful to the movies. Leatherface never tantrumed in ANY of the movies because his saw hits a wall (or more realistic to DBD, came within 3 feet of a wall OR within 5 feet of one of the about a dozen or so glitch zones).
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@KingB said:
Agreed 1000000%. His power isnt good enough to justify a hindrance like this.
Even if it were, you don't give him a penalty that actively inhibits the intended strength of his power. He is supposed to chase around walls in a way Hillbilly cannot, but if he tries he tantrums for cutting the corner close enough to catch up.
After LF is buffed I'd say add it to the end of his attack if he fails to hit a survivor or pallet, but until then it's unnecessary.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Unfortunately it Triggers on Hooked Survivors right now. So it's kinda useless.
I've reported the bug but I'm not sure if BHVR noticed it; I did tag Peanits though and he's extremely good about reading his tags.
I'm convinced that Insidious is still better on LF at this point, though neither one is good.
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Updated with an extensive write-up on the failures of the system and the dire imperative of its replacement.
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You could also just deal with the various reasons killers constantly dodge lobbies rather than forcing them to subject themselves to it.
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@Mc_Harty said:
People told the devs this since the very beginning they introduced the emblems. People told them when they made ranks harder to rank up. The devs don't give a #########.
They much rather everyone hold hands and farm each other. The emblems are a decent idea but much like everything that gets implemented in this game, turns out pathetic.
For survivors (barring the update that artificially inflated the difficulty of pipping at high ranks), it makes *more* sense than the Killer's emblems, considering the survivor doesn't have total agency of how their Trial goes; they're in a team of four people, all of whom impact their chances of surviving.
Moreover, even if the survivor individually fails to survive, they could have carried the survival of their up to three teammates that survived, which could warrant a pip if not at least a safety.
However, with killer it's cut and dry; you either killed them or you didn't, and it was entirely on you either way.
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@knell said:
The problem is perceiving 'pipping' or 'not pipping' as winning or losing, instead of simply 'surviving' 'not surviving' / 'killing 3-4' 'killing only 0-2.' All of this frustration would cease to exist if the Emblem system / Ranking are made invisible to the players.
It actually just made it worse. Whereas before if the low rank survivors fall for the camping trick, the camper would rank up until they face survivors who will just genrush while they stare at an empty screen all trial, resulting in a depip.
Now, they stay low rank against survivors whom will continue to fall for it. Doesn't help that the stringent pip system now obliges survivors to go for saves which just feeds into what the camper wants even more.
For both of these reasons it just served to exasperate, not alleviate, the issue; if you could even label it one in the first place.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/493862#Comment_493862
Exactly. I'm pretty much in the same boat. My most competitive games are when it matches me against rank 3 and 4s. Most of the time I get rank 9-13, one or two d/c when I start to steamroll them, and I safety.
That's the worst part. If you start to snowball and someone DCs, your chances of pipping plummet, especially because of the ridiculous 9-hook clause on Iridescent.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It was never intended to primarily reflect performance. Instead of tweaking gameplay mechanics, they tweaked the ranking and emblem system to try and force "fun" playstyles on players. It's also completely devoid of context regarding individual killer abilities, so Plague, Myers, Billy, and LF get screwed. It's a pvp game. I would wager that winning is fun to the vast majority of players. What has instead happened is that many players are just ignoring the silly ranking system altogether, so players with red rank skill are stuck in purple ranks and beating up on green and yellow rank players due to odd matchmaking. Literally the opposite of the intended effect. It's the same on the survivor side. I'd say a 4 out means everyone played fairly optimal, but because nobody made saves, nobody pips.
Of course nobody makes saves, over-altruism is a great way to lose a trial. So I suspect some of the best survivors are stuck in green/purple to bully actually green/purple killers.
Whole thing is just asinine. If a play style isn't fun, fix the mechanic. Rank's only role is to pit players of equal skill against one another and this arbitrary criteria of the emblems needs to go.
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@Vlieger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490808#Comment_490808
I agree that if a player is bad at a game they'll most likely lose or negatively contribute to the team effort. Skill at a game clearly correlates to "winning or losing" and therefore to their W-L ratio.
The main problem this presents for DBD when talking about rank is: not every game has 1 side that "wins" and one side that "loses." The example games you provided all have very defined Win/Loss conditions.
I think DBD could potentially correlate rank to a 'Killed Vs. Escaped' ratio for killers and a 'Survived vs. Dies' ratio for survivors, but like I said before it would segment the community which is something I don't think BHVR wants to do since they say it is a "party game" and not a competitive game.
EDIT: Also I kind of think we went a little bit far down the rabbit hole discussing the semantics of Skill/Stats/W-L and how they affect each other, but let me just end (since I am going to sleep) by saying:
I think the current ranking system being based on emblems is bad, because like you have pointed out: there are scenarios in DBD where you feel like you did very well, but are not ranked appropriately. In a game where Win/Loss is not specifically defined it makes it very hard to determine a rank.
It's worse than just judging what we think SHOULD and shouldn't affect rank, pipping as killer is often impossible. If at any point a survivor ragequits, or God help you two, it's impossible to get an Iridescent even if you kill their entire team.
Now on top of that, my chainsaw's instant downs cucks my Chaser emblem and if I just go ahead and kill people, I'll get Gold/Gold/Gold/Bronze, Safety.
Just to really emphasize this, this is the game saying that killing their entire team wasn't good enough for a pip. Often happens with Tombstone Myers as well though that one is because of arbitrary and ridiculous criteria.
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@IronWolf115 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/492873#Comment_492873
Hopefully with the Pig skin leaks, they may get the rights to make LF skins
Things I want:
- Remake Leatherface
- Pretty Woman Leatherface
- Old Lady Leatherface
- Golden "The Saw is Family" engraved chainsaw
- Maskless Leatherface
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Problem is that at the skill floor, playing killer is easier than playing survivor because they just prey on mistakes, and if you flat nerf survivors it'll just make the low ranks even more of a bloodbath.
One of the bigger issues though is that there are map tiles whose sole purpose is to waste our time and in no way facilitates chase breaking; these are exploited by good survivors (along with ridiculous perks,....) to eat up an exorbitant amount of time.
It's a multifaceted issue, and maps the size of a continent such as Red Forest or any Coldwind Farms map except Rancid Abbatoir which is cancerous in its own right, to the maps containing legitimate infinites like Haddonfield, all contribute to the issue.
There's no "silver bullet" to an issue this complex and multi-layered unfortunately, but even more unfortunate is that little progress is being made towards the issue ruining high rank Killer matches.
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@Groxiverde said:
Territorial imperative is bugged right now and it triggers every 30secs even if nobody is in the basement. I know this because I'm a Bubba main...
I submitted a bug report with video footage of it already.
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@IronWolf115 said:
I still would love remake Leatherface as a skin in DBD
I'd buy any LF skin, from pretty lady to old woman and ofc remake LF.
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@[Deleted User] said:
leatherface is underrated change my mind. (yeh he also need buffs tho)
If survivors play properly he is literally a basic killer.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490827#Comment_490827
They aren’t broken. They work, but the effect is so minuscule that they feel worthless. I remember Horvath or mcclean explaining this a a few times now
This is correct. They function as intended, they're just intended to be equivalent to an empty add-on slot.
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@Vlieger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490777#Comment_490777
I don't think it is a stretch to say a team of players who all have bad stats will lose the game over a team of players who have all good stats. So do theirs stats/skills determine the outcome of a match? Yes they do.
If a player is bad they'll lose the match, and if a player is consistently bad their W/L will reflect it. Picking and enforcing arbitrary criteria doesn't judge skill, it pigeon holes playstyles and selects for very specific powers over others.
That's another issue I didn't even touch yet, win because you got 4 traps as Trapper or 3 instant downs as LF? Enjoy your minimal Chaser. Does it mean you deserve your win less than a Nurse who just farmed 2 hits per down? No, and yet your rank will be artificially lower than the Nurse's for the exact same results.
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@Vlieger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490727#Comment_490727
Oh boy comparing sports to video games. Ok lets do this.
So you say "no other game in the world does this arbitrary break-down" But in sports are players stats not broken down, tracked, and judged? These stats determine how valuable a player was to the team effort of winning or losing the game.
Players in sports are also paid based on their skills. Yes the skills translate over to a W-L ratio, but it is their actual stats/skills at the game that make them valuable to obtaining the "objective" of winning or losing.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that the Emblem/Ranking system in DBD is poorly correlated, but your comparisons are just a poor example and don't actually address why the ranking system is bad.
Way to miss the point entirely.
Call of Duty: You don't lose Team Deathmatch because your accuracy was too poor but you managed to kill the other team anyways.
League of Legends: You destroyed the enemy Nexus? Doesn't matter if your CS sucked, you still win.
Mortal Kombat: You killed the other player but screwed up a couple combos? You still win, because they still died.
Need For Speed: You cross the finish line first? You win, even if you didn't drift well and hit an obstacle.
Team Fortress 2: You captured every control point? Doesn't matter if your KDA was low, you still win.
Dead By Daylight: You killed all of them, but didn't get 9 hooks and didn't get an arbitrary number of hits. You lose, and so does every survivor in the game. Nobody wins, everyone lost.
What is the point of a rank system if it doesn't accurately judge your skill level in any way?
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@ClogWench said:
The emblem system doesn't determine your ability to win, so much as your ability to do what it tells you to do. You can end a game fast, which is the rational thing to do, but the emblem system just wants you to complete certain tasks with no real reason why. It's a bad system that replaced another bad system and will likely someday be replaced by yet another bad system.
No other game in the world does this arbitrary break-down. Everything in the world, from sports to video games, judges your performance based upon whether or not you accomplished your objective.
You don't end a football game and say "Well team A had 14 points and Team B had 7 points, but Team A had really bad rush defense and threw a couple interceptions, so Team B wins."
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@Peanits said:
Leatherface is on our radar, but it's a very, very big radar. Killers like Freddy and Legion took priority over him in the past since they were more in need of changes. I can't promise anything just yet, but we have been watching and we've seen your feedback and suggestions.
Well thanks for taking the time to respond! If there's ever a time that Leatherface is being worked on, the Basement Discord and I would be overjoyed to contribute to our favorite killer in whichever capacity we can.
Unfortunate that it sounds like it's going to be a wait, he really is hurting right now and all too often he goes several trials in a row without getting to use his power at all. Thanks again for telling us all you can, we do really appreciate it!
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@BeeKnee said:
I would like a leatherface rework.
Seems like a very popular sentiment, I really hope BHVR is inclined to agree
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@Daniel101773 said:
A ban system in this game is pointless. It would go the same way EVERY time. Survivors would ban Ruin, killers would ban Self-Care. There would be no deviation from this unless they wanted a hilarious disadvantage.
Self Care isn't even in my top 10 for bans. This list is in no particular order but I'd rather ban al of these:
- MoM
- Adrenaline
- Dead Hard
- Decisive Strike
- Balanced Landing
- Sprint Burst
- Lithe
- Unbreakable
- Distortion
- Iron Will (Personal one, this perk murders me)
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If you're remotely interested:
- Leatherface no longer tantrums by bumping into objects; this discourages him from cutting corners too sharply, which negates the entire point of his chainsaw having more control; the capacity to chase around objects.
- Leatherface now tantrums at the end of his chainsaw attack if he fails to hit a pallet or survivor. This punishes Leatherface heavily for misplaying and strongly rewards successful play against him.
- Moderately increase the Chainsaw's movement speed. Currently he cannot ever catch up, and hearing his saw is relaxing because it means he literally cannot catch up and you can continue looping with impunity.
We also did an entire add-on rework proposal but that's a bit too lengthy to drop here.
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@HarryToeknuckles said:
What changes were you hoping for?
Well the Basement Discord and I have created rework concept after rework concept, but all of our hours of effort is futile if BHVR thinks that the Cannibal is in a decent state, or only in need of QoL changes.
From our perspective, he eventually needs a full-scale add-on rework plus significant baseline changes, but since that'll be a while, we're hoping for a small buff to make him relevant until such a time he can be properly worked on.
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@Jonathanskilz said:
As long as i Can play basement tum tum Im happy
This change wouldn't negatively impact it in any conceivable way.
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If BHVR delivers on M Cote's middle finger, I will purchase $20 in their store.
Holla @ yaboi, BHVR.
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Traditionally my take on a rework is to increase his Chainsaw attack movement speed and remove tantrum from touching walls, instead making him tantrum if he finishes his chainsaw attack without hitting a survivor or a pallet.
That way he can cut corners faster to catch up to people, which is the whole point of his power, making him consistent. On the other hand, if you outplay him, he's going to lose you almost certainly.
That said, I just proposed something simple because I just want to see him be less atrocious between now and his inevitable add-on rework, and the simplier the proposal the more likely BHVR will consider it I suspect.
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@FireHazard said:
@Leatherbilly Yeah, as stated in one of my older posts regarding Leatherface being the worst killer I can agree with some of these changes.
Most of Leatherfaces add-ons are copy&paste from Billy, and his two unique add-ons don't even work (Chili and Award-Winning Chili) all they is waste space on the bloodweb.
The only viable builds he has is Enduring + Spirit Fury or a ironic basement build, he has nothing going for him. At least Freddy has add-ons that assist him and builds. YES hes add-on dependent but at least they work and can be interchangeable.
He needs his chainsaw also to not have a cancel when you stop charging, its really not needed and makes it worthless to use in 90% of scenarios unless there's no windows or pallets around.
I feel like hes incomplete as stated in my older discussions on him, it feels like they derived most of what he is from Billy called him Leatherface and called it a day. He needs something, a tweak, a rework, anything. And his Chili's need to be fixed, they've been broken since the game released him...
Spot on, on all counts. My build has consistently been BBQ (Purely for BP), Enduring, Spirit Fury, FLEX (often Bamboozle). He definitely needs san add-on rework, like I said above the only two stats he really cares about without a rework changing things are movement speed and rev speed.
I really just hope he gets some sort of buff to time him over because it'll be a long, long time before he gets his add-on rework.
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@Zagrid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/488901#Comment_488901
You got the email and it just said that you were not accepted?
Mine just had a photocopy of M. Cote's middle finger.
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@OMagic_ManO said:
I'm thinking a 92.5% movement speed while revving and 120% Chainsaw, a little more reach, but longer penalty for hitting an object, that would make him good, his add ons need to be fixed, they are super insignificant and do little to nothing.
Having extensively tested every add-on combination conceivable, they fall into a couple of categories. The consistent problem being that a few stats, namely cooldown reduction, acceleration speed, more quiet revving and tantrum duration reduction, do absolutely nothing, and the on-hit chainsaw effects are impractical.
Slightly Helpful
Tuning Guide
Primer Bulb
The Beast's Marks
Barely Does Anything
The Grease
Spark Plug
Long Guide Bar
Everything Else
Either useless, basically useless or actively hurts you
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Truth be told I've pitched so many LF buff and rework concepts in the hopes that BHVR will like one that my goal is sincerely to get attention to him by BHVR.
He's one of the few killers to frequently just not have a power during a trial.
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@AntiJelly said:
Honestly, if they changed his charging movement speed from 3.5m/s to 3.8m/s, and made his chainsaw charge in the same way that Billy's charges, that'd be good for now.
At least until they can fully rework him.
I agree, and I'm thrilled to see public sentiment shift towards this position. I really hope the developers share our mutual opinion of Leatherface needing help, but I haven't heard from them.
Maybe a random BHVR will show up with some insight!
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I wish I had some Peanits bait to see if he could add insight as to what BHVR thinks about the Cannibal, but I don't know which foods attract a wild Peanits ;-;
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Honestly I'd really like to know if BHVR even considers him in need of help, I may be wasting my time if they don't.
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@Poweas said:
I can totally agree. I'd honestly make his chainsaw endless so it's a Billy but with turning instead of speed. Then the 118% MS would be fine. If he breaks a pallet with his saw, it stops so the survivors have a chance. He can only get bloodlust 1 though. Idk, that's my ida for Leatherface.
The Basement and I have drafted several full-scale reworks that addressed both Cannibal and survivor grievances, but they never gained any traction with BHVR.
At this point I'm just hoping for a marginal number tweak to make Leatherface usable at least, this would hopefully be as simple as literally editing a string value and shipping it to the PTB.
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For whatever it's worth, I have over a hundred spare ebony moris on Leatherface alone and he's my most played killer. I've hit Rank 1 repeatedly and I run the Basement Discord for Leatherface mains.
Just thought I'd try to preempt the "git gud" rebuttals.
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To be honestly, Self Care is fine and I'd love for survivors to waste their time. Unfortunately, when people are injured they just continue to gen rush because you can completely 5 gens within 4 minutes to just trigger Adrenaline for a free Sprint Burst stapled to a free, instant Self Care heal to escape to safety.
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On topic only the first one was really questionable, the rest were the combined efforts of greed and latency.
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@Chewy102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/487887#Comment_487887
And as many have also said before. Know what you are talking about before complaining.
DbD is an online game.It takes time (lag) for data to be sent from one person to another and that is going to effect everything within a game. If you want to react to something in an online game you need to account for said lag. This isn't a single player game where you can wait till the very last micro-second and expect to not be punished.
Say you have a ping of 50ms. That is 50 mirco seconds, or .05 of a second delay. This means ANY time you move or do anything, it takes .05 seconds for that input to be sent to another player. It isn't just the ping either. It takes time for you see an action, time to press a button in reaction, THEN the input data is sent, and finally animations play out. All in all, that time adds up. Fast. Reaction times alone for the average human can be a staggering .25 of a second. Meaning that the VERY low ping of 50ms, is a full .30 of a second delay. Higher pings makes things worse as a normal 80-100ms ping is .08-.10, taking it to a .33-.35 second reaction delay in reaction time and lag ALONE! You then STILL have animation times that effect things even further!
Host or client both share this delay. So in the posted video him waiting for the very last moment is often too late as the Killer already started an attack and maybe landed a hit before OP likely pressed a button to start with. Reaction in online gaming isn't really reacting at all, it is prediction.
And if you think Dedicated Servers are going to help, you have no idea at all. Dedicated servers add ANOTHER segment in the data chain that adds even MORE time to it all. P2P is you to the host and host to you. Servers is you to the server to the other player or the other play to the server then to you. In a fast paced melee focused game like DbD, dedicated servers wont help in the least and will likely ruin the game.
TL:DR
It isn't hitboxes. Never was. It's just normal everyday online gaming.
Tbf, many of this game's hitboxes are completely screwed, particularly Leatherface's and the map terrain, which also screws with Huntress. I'm well aware that hitboxes are squares represented by slimmer, non-square meshes, but this doesn't explain why LF tantrums leaving through the bus or under the crane on Autohaven because the hitbox from above him clips into him enough to trigger a tantrum.
Not to mention you can be 3 feet away from a wall and still hit it, which is unequivocally a hitbox issue and not lag. There's also tremendous counterintuition with respects to angles, as looking directly at a wall is less likely to tantrum than looking at a slight angle.
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@Mochan said:
See you in Chapter 12 then.
- "All killers have received lately is nerfs,"
Oh cry me a river. Survivors have been more heavily nerfed in the past dozen patches than Killers have. There have been three major Survivor nerfs across the board in the last 6 months -- the Lighting Nerf which totally destroyed stealth and made it much easier for killers to find survivors, the Gen/Healing Time Nerf which added time to the two major survivor activities in the game, and the End Game Collapse, which makes end game and the 1v1 match significantly harder than it used to be. That's not even counting all the dozens of micronerfs and some very major ones like Decisive Strike, and all the other nerfs that were done more than six months ago like palette/window vaults, flashlights, etc.
Killers have been receiving benign nerfs in comparison for the past six months, with the exception of the two that you are complaining about -- the Pig EGC nerf (which was necessary because of EGC -- but hey you guys wanted EGC that's on you) and the Legion Rework, which was necessary because Legion was broken and not being used as he was designed and intended and had exploits which totally broke the game. Meanwhile we got buffs like Wraith's ambush attack buff, they boarded up Coldwind jungle gyms to reduce survivor looping there, hiding killer loadouts, buff to Enduring, Thanatophobia, Surveillance, Spies from the shadows, etc. That's in addition to the three major survivor board nerfs I mentioned, which are obviously 3 major killer buffs across the board. Killers have been receiving tons of buffs you are just ignoring them or pretending they don't happen to suit your narrative.
I'm sorry it had to hit you hard because you are a Legion/Pig main, but these changes were either necessary (Legion) or a result of your own doing (Pig EGC).
Remember that the Developers designed legion to be a fun killer -- the kind that goes around slashing and stabbing everyone indiscriminately and chasing everyone around. And he can pip and get tons of blood points without getting a single kill. He was designed that way. When this was brought up in the PTB the devs stood by the design choice. They even said "We're okay with him not being a strong killer. We want Legion to be a fun killer." That was how they wanted Legion to be. If you get kills, then good, but Legion was always about the chase and the gratuitous stab fests.
He was never supposed to become an inescapable sure kill with no chance for counterplay, an exploitative way of using his mechanics that killers discovered, but which wasn't intended.
Survivors have been nerfed becuase historically they were egregiously overpowered and your framing dishonestly portrays Survivors as being "singled out." The reality is that if Killers and Survivors were equal to begin with you'd have a point, but they were far from it and still are.
Nobody asked for EGC, people just wanted to close the hatch to prevent free escapes. Personally, I've never cared since before the asinine Emblem changes (and subsequent update), a 3K is a guaranteed pip, and that's a win in my book. What always bothered me was keys, which I'd really love to completely gut as a mechanic. Frankly, they shouldn't exist.
The see-through walls were braindead and should've never existed. This is like pretending the removal of infinites is SOOOOOO killer sided. They should've never existed in the first damn place, and some still do to this day.
Legion is in a lot healthier state now that he has to earn his down but he's still a pretty pitifully weak killer against competent players.
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Leatherface is one of the absolute worst killers in the game and camping virtually guarantees you depip.