I won’t be playing until legion is speed buffed or GhostFace arrives.
I’m really just not having fun anymore. It’s a shame, but my grandmother beat legion in a parkour race course yesterday with a time of 38 minutes and 15 seconds, and the entire course was just three windows. So I’m pretty frustrated with how awful he controls now.
Have fun everyone, I’ll still pop on the forums from time to time, but my two favorite killers, pig, and legion, have been completely ruined. It’s been weeks and still the devs have continued to ignore us, until I see them stop over nerfing and ruining the game, I’m going to take a break so I don’t get burnout. They just nerf and nerf instead of buffing the gimmicks of the game. They just deleted a killer, and are now deleting a brand new perk, instead of just adding counter play to it.
They’ll add a 16 meter radius point deduction for being within radius of a hooked victim, but they won’t add counterplay for a perk, instead they nerf it. They added no counterplay to legion, instead they crucified him.
Can’t say I have any faith in ghost face being fun either. Seeing the way they are currently handling things.
I mean legion was heavily overnerfed, his parkour and stun times were unfairly nerfed, seeing as his power was made completely useless and can’t be used to down survivors, (I never used deepwounds to down people anyways but the point still stands there’s no countermeasures to keep him viable) making the nerf even more questionable. And now poor oinkers has no strengths anymore. Her RBT’s at escape phase were her only leverage, and now getting a kill with one requires someone to spontaneously collapse at the keyboard while playing in order to get a kill with.
And crouching is always working against her because the devs refuse to allow her to see through 10m of vegetation or raise the camera height.
Meanwhile perks like mettle of man and solidarity are brought to the survivor side as well as flip flop. All killers have received lately is nerfs, and I find playing survivor to be boring, and now, killer is getting boring. I get 4k’s and only get brutal killer at rank 10. Pig had no leverage, legion has literally no purpose, I’m bored. People are getting banned left right and center on the forums and the number of voices providing feedback is shrinking and shrinking.
If most people on the forum don’t care for the state of killers, there won’t be many of us killer mains and 50/50 players left to collaborate with survivor mains to balance out the feedback. BHVR, you’re beginning to tread on very thin ice here. I don’t think permabans on the forums should stay.
And I especially don’t think you should continue to nerf things the way you do, because you are harming your game and actually starting to ruin it.
All I'm doing is chasing the highs I got from when the game was in a good state for just about a month or two. Now it’s just going downhill and I’m so frustrated and demotivated to keep playing. The game’s already a grind, but now my favorite killers are useless, they aren’t even fun to use now. Still saving up for plague but from what I hear she’s awful.
Comments
In response to title: *whispers* same bro, I've just been avoiding these arguments over if legion is good now or not. (I'd still play pig though, it's not as disorienting for me as the legion change)
I can't handle even watching a legion vault in a streamer video let alone doing it. Until there's some kind of change my legion boi has been retired. I'm still 100% optimistic for ghost though, I won't even be disappointed if he's not 100% killing machine (let's be fair he looks he won't be from the leaks alone but this could change).
I just want a fun to use power, legion gave me that and it was destroyed for no particular reason given the other nerfs that came along with the speed/cooldown changes, I only liked the killer for the speedy gameplay anyway, felt amazing chaining 4 frenzy strikes on 4 survivors in a minute. Might as well learn billy at this point.
Me: I still have my Nurse
Devs: Hehehehe
Me: Don't you do it, she's my baby!
Devs: *Presses Nerf Button* Muhahahaha!
Me: Noooooooooo
I don't want a speed buff because of the whiff penalty but I do want a duration buff for how slow he moves in it.
Hes decent killer the problem with him its the recharge time for hes power should go a little bit quick but its kinda funny that you said the devs ignore us look dude if you look at the Q&A they said in the future he will get a buff flip flop and solidarity you complain about those 2? Wow those 2 perk are useless dosent give anything good for the survivor and i like flip flop tried to find good build on it but its useless MoM will get a change will be similar than WGLF i do get you want the old legion but just gid gud play other killer yesterday i needed to do a daily with the legion guess what i 4k the issue of youres its that probably you should focus more on patrolling gens than tunneling i do not have any problems with him
"Meanwhile perks like mettle of man and solidarity are brought to the survivor side as well as flip flop."
MoM is getting changed/nerfed, Flip Flop without an organized team or slugging is useless and you complain about.... Solidarity? Okay.
"I get 4k’s and only get brutal killer at rank 10"
The game requires you to have long games (aka everyone hooked 3 times) and also that almost no gens get done for 9 minutes.
"And I especially don’t think you should continue to nerf things the way you do, because you are harming your game and actually starting to ruin it."
What other nerfs (besides Legion) you think were bad and how would you fix those?
See you in Chapter 12 then.
Oh cry me a river. Survivors have been more heavily nerfed in the past dozen patches than Killers have. There have been three major Survivor nerfs across the board in the last 6 months -- the Lighting Nerf which totally destroyed stealth and made it much easier for killers to find survivors, the Gen/Healing Time Nerf which added time to the two major survivor activities in the game, and the End Game Collapse, which makes end game and the 1v1 match significantly harder than it used to be. That's not even counting all the dozens of micronerfs and some very major ones like Decisive Strike, and all the other nerfs that were done more than six months ago like palette/window vaults, flashlights, etc.
Killers have been receiving benign nerfs in comparison for the past six months, with the exception of the two that you are complaining about -- the Pig EGC nerf (which was necessary because of EGC -- but hey you guys wanted EGC that's on you) and the Legion Rework, which was necessary because Legion was broken and not being used as he was designed and intended and had exploits which totally broke the game. Meanwhile we got buffs like Wraith's ambush attack buff, they boarded up Coldwind jungle gyms to reduce survivor looping there, hiding killer loadouts, buff to Enduring, Thanatophobia, Surveillance, Spies from the shadows, etc. That's in addition to the three major survivor board nerfs I mentioned, which are obviously 3 major killer buffs across the board. Killers have been receiving tons of buffs you are just ignoring them or pretending they don't happen to suit your narrative.
I'm sorry it had to hit you hard because you are a Legion/Pig main, but these changes were either necessary (Legion) or a result of your own doing (Pig EGC).
Remember that the Developers designed legion to be a fun killer -- the kind that goes around slashing and stabbing everyone indiscriminately and chasing everyone around. And he can pip and get tons of blood points without getting a single kill. He was designed that way. When this was brought up in the PTB the devs stood by the design choice. They even said "We're okay with him not being a strong killer. We want Legion to be a fun killer." That was how they wanted Legion to be. If you get kills, then good, but Legion was always about the chase and the gratuitous stab fests.
He was never supposed to become an inescapable sure kill with no chance for counterplay, an exploitative way of using his mechanics that killers discovered, but which wasn't intended.
Survivors have been nerfed becuase historically they were egregiously overpowered and your framing dishonestly portrays Survivors as being "singled out." The reality is that if Killers and Survivors were equal to begin with you'd have a point, but they were far from it and still are.
Nobody asked for EGC, people just wanted to close the hatch to prevent free escapes. Personally, I've never cared since before the asinine Emblem changes (and subsequent update), a 3K is a guaranteed pip, and that's a win in my book. What always bothered me was keys, which I'd really love to completely gut as a mechanic. Frankly, they shouldn't exist.
The see-through walls were braindead and should've never existed. This is like pretending the removal of infinites is SOOOOOO killer sided. They should've never existed in the first damn place, and some still do to this day.
Legion is in a lot healthier state now that he has to earn his down but he's still a pretty pitifully weak killer against competent players.
I stopped reading at the gen/healing time nerf, GENERATORS HAVE BEEN THE SAME SPEED FOR A WHILE NOW AND NEVER CHANGED BECAUSE IT WOULD BREAK THE GAME TO STRAIGHT HELL!
She actually can't be nerfed anymore really.
She would need a complete rework to make her different but they don't want to do it.
Her addons could use some reworking as they range for borderline useless to really great addons of low rarity(too low).
She still remains as the only killer that has an advantage during chases while others wait for mistakes.
Alright so I had the time to read all of it and almost everything you said was incorrect
A. Generators did not get changed, it was just healing
B. Thanatophobia was never changed
C. Legion buffed borrowed time something you skipped
D. Windows actually got buffed, increasing vault speed for survivors and making a QoL buff that showed when you were about to get a either running vault or vault/Rusty vault/slow vault
E. Spies from the shadows is still not that great
His FF ms is awful, just like his vaulting speed, which btw those not the only problem, he goes back to 0ms when he finishes the vaulting animation, survivors on the other hand keep their 4.0ms after they've done a fast vault, which makes It even harder for the Legion to catch up with them. Then you take a stun of 4 seconds for a power that cant down anyone... Do you realize how stupid this sounds from a balance point of view 😂?
Reading this is irritating on BOTH sides. The Gen time thing that was brought up was old as hell. Pretty sure when the game was initially released, gens took 50 seconds. That change though is over 2 years old. Yes, it was a thing but really...why bring it up. As far as nerfing or buffing perks goes, thats a nerf or buff to the perk...NOT to survivors or killers. If they buff 20 perks that are weak to bring them into a useable state, that shouldn't be an invite to count which side got more and claim the Devs are showing favoritism.
Just so people dont claim "Well, any killer can equip XYZ perk so them buffing XYZ perk buffs killers" or vice versa...
As far as the argument that Legion is bad now and they shouldve added counter play without changing him... I ask you, how.The things they tweeked were with the idea of adding counterplay and alot of the "nerfs" to him were simply to balance out the "buffs". For example, they increased his base speed. If the stun time after leaving Frenzy was kept the same, it would allow the killer to get the 2nd hit in faster than before if you released Frenzy after running up to the survivor. Making the stun time longer was to give the survivor the SAME amount of time as before. I've actually been playing Legion MORE now after his change and find it quite enjoyable. Things like him having an actual setback to missing his attack in Frenzy just means that each attack should be precise. Thats not a problem for skillful play.
@Hoodedfengm1n "B. Thanatophobia was never changed" What do you mean? It got some number (mostly) nerfs.
@Milo I was not around during that change sorry, the PTB change never happened in the live build (Which depresses me)
See you later alligator
@Hoodedfengm1n Oh you were talking about the buffed version!
So Thanathophobia did get a change sadly it was a nerf to 1,2 injured people and a buff to the 4th one. It was like 2% tho so it understandable that you might not even noticed it
@Mochan
"Oh cry me a river. Survivors have been more heavily nerfed in the past dozen patches than Killers have. There have been three major Survivor nerfs across the board in the last 6 months -- the Lighting Nerf which totally destroyed stealth and made it much easier for killers to find survivors, the Gen/Healing Time Nerf which added time to the two major survivor activities in the game, and the End Game Collapse, which makes end game and the 1v1 match significantly harder than it used to be. That's not even counting all the dozens of micronerfs and some very major ones like Decisive Strike, and all the other nerfs that were done more than six months ago like palette/window vaults, flashlights, etc."
Lighting Nerf: As far as I'm aware the game has gotten darker, granted, I can still see and punish Blendettes but no, the Lighting is hella darker then before.
Gen/Healing Nerf: Only healing was affected. The 'Gen Nerf' as you call it always existed, but they didn't show it until now. Even then, Prove Thyself was buffed accordingly.
EGC 1v1: I know you've probably heard this before, but survivors in a one versus one situation should NOT be easy. The killer is in fact the power role and should be able to eliminate us in such a situation. That's why there are four survivors to even it out, the less you have, ofc you shouldn't have an easier game. Survivors shouldn't get free wins when they can't keep the others alive/can't do enough gens. And killers shouldn't expect to win against competent survivors.
The Rest: Decisive Strike was needed. There were games I could have ended a lot sooner had DS not been into play. Granted sometimes it did nothing, but those were few and far between. Now a days, I only get hit with it when I ONLY find the saved. They sorta buffed Pallets again, I noticed there was more pallets these recent patches, then the prior. Window Vaults were buffed.
"Killers have been receiving benign nerfs in comparison for the past six months, with the exception of the two that you are complaining about -- the Pig EGC nerf (which was necessary because of EGC -- but hey you guys wanted EGC that's on you) and the Legion Rework, which was necessary because Legion was broken and not being used as he was designed and intended and had exploits which totally broke the game. Meanwhile we got buffs like Wraith's ambush attack buff, they boarded up Coldwind jungle gyms to reduce survivor looping there, hiding killer loadouts, buff to Enduring, Thanatophobia, Surveillance, Spies from the shadows, etc. That's in addition to the three major survivor board nerfs I mentioned, which are obviously 3 major killer buffs across the board. Killers have been receiving tons of buffs you are just ignoring them or pretending they don't happen to suit your narrative."
Killer Nerfs: Over all I've noticed killers got more nerfs in total then Survivors have in the months and patches you specified. So that is a moot point. Yes we wanted the EGC, but only because it was survivors who let the game drag on longer then it had to, yes technically it is the killer's fault for not hitting them out, but it's sad that killers are taken so much as a joke they HAVE to do so. That is not to say I disagree with the reasoning of nerfing killers like Pig and Legion, which brings me to:
Pig and Legion Nerf: Pig nerf was understandable given the conditions of the EGC, however it also removed a playstyle a lot of people liked, Pig was good because of her ability to screw over survivors with the traps, and now she lost that. Legion needed a change, but what they did wasn't necessary. I had already given my feedback (and you are more then welcome to search my discussions for it) so I won't go into detail here.
Wraith Change: Wraith was given built in Windstorm at the cost of uncloaking movement speed, in essence it makes the built in windstorm mean absolutely nothing. You are gaining the exact same time as you lost from uncloaking, at least, from what I've seen if you use the Bell in a chase.
Loops and Perk Changes: The boarded up windows didn't reduce the looping, it just made it harder to read killer or survivor movement, a good or decent survivor can still loop a killer to hell with the Jungle Gyms, your point is moot here. The hidden loadout was needed, I can't tell you how many times I or a friend was able to negate a lot of perks by merely being dead, perks like NoEd and Blood Warden had never gone off because of the knowledge we had. Enduring is a weird one but as long as they change the appropriate stuns, I don't really care. Thanatophobia was actually nerfed, Surveillance was once a joke perk ran only to get Adept Pig, you cannot possibly say that change wasn't needed. Spies from the Shadows was buffed, then nerfed all over again. That killed me on the inside.
The Rest: We all could say the same right back at you, sibling.
"I'm sorry it had to hit you hard because you are a Legion/Pig main, but these changes were either necessary (Legion) or a result of your own doing (Pig EGC)."
Yes the changes were necessary. But we got nothing in return for them. The Pig got no compensation in return for her End Game being irreversibly broken, and Legion's power is useless.
"Remember that the Developers designed legion to be a fun killer -- the kind that goes around slashing and stabbing everyone indiscriminately and chasing everyone around. And he can pip and get tons of blood points without getting a single kill. He was designed that way. When this was brought up in the PTB the devs stood by the design choice. They even said "We're okay with him not being a strong killer. We want Legion to be a fun killer." That was how they wanted Legion to be. If you get kills, then good, but Legion was always about the chase and the gratuitous stab fests."
Legion Fun: Fun for you maybe, but not for people who used the Legion as intended/Used for that sweet speed boost. Now even a single miss can bring an end to that fun.
Legion Pips and Points: All killers end up getting a lot of points already, and since I'm so used to playing Trapper, I can easily pip given Legions new changes as well as I could the Trapper.
Legion Fun pt 2: That's all fine and all, but unless you want people playing more killers then Nurse and Wraith, it'd be in your best interest to have Legion and Pig be made more FUN and VIABLE.
28 STAB WOUNDS!: Yeah... No, you can't dish out 28 stab wounds and still have fun because... Y'know, they nerfed his sprint (and buffed duration, but you can't really make too much use of the longer Frenzy without the speed, it's like making a pro runner able to go further, but giving him short stubby legs that makes him feel all awkward) and made giving Stab Wounds useless.
"He was never supposed to become an inescapable sure kill with no chance for counterplay, an exploitative way of using his mechanics that killers discovered, but which wasn't intended."
He was definitely escapable. And going by that logic, looping a killer for ages is a exploit, and the same Devs which you wanted to quote have even said Looping was never intended when creating the game, though Orion can tell you more about that.
I know my post is long, and probably will be ignored, but I felt like I had to at least try to clear some things up.
I bring these things up only because you have a salty killer here who can't stop himself from spreading propaganda that killers only get nerfs and the game is entirely survivor-sided.
All of us with sense know this is not true. Even a survivor main such as myself knows that both killers and survivors are being buffed and balanced as well as BHVR can.
So stop spewing your "Game is survivor-sided" propaganda. I will stop you at every turn.
@Mochan I'd refer you to the post made by @LordGlint
Actually, his post was so beautiful and true (maybe not the Legion part but that's my personal opinion), I ask everyone to read it.
I honestly don’t get it. I don’t shame anyone, I’m not rude about anything in my post, I stay polite and respectful and voice an opinion, and you respond with,”oh cry me a river” and then make a follow up post calling me a “salty killer main” and tell me to “get good”. So the following response made hours after your original two comments is completely warranted due to your attitude.
Oh look another survivor main. Did you not see that I disapprove of mettle of man being completely reworked instead of adding counterplay? No? Of course not. You tell me to get good, but I get 4k’s and perfect 32k games with current legion so you can stop with the attitude.
Pig’s changes were necessary? According to who, you? The armchair expert I’ve never heard of?
All I want is his parkour vault speeds back. You can’t understand that though, because people like you hold m1 all day on a generator and can’t bother to read the entire post. To call my post “propaganda” and label me as a “salty killer.”
Thanatophobia was nerfed, they slaughtered it after the most recent PTB so you’re unsurprisingly wrong there. Quit spreading misinformation, first learn the facts then run your mouth. Enduring is getting nerfed, and legion's nerf handling was overkill. Deep wounds now useless? Fine, FF speed decreased? Fine. FF vault speeds decreased, stun time increased? Hell no! That’s too far, his power needs a use.
Your arguments here are honestly a joke. Kick rocks if you’re going to have attitude.
I trust my most recent response will suppress that disgusting attitude of yours.
It’s not understandable, he’s spreading misinformation and ironically crying us the river that he claims I am.
It IS stupid. But apparently our feedback no longer is necessary. They will handle all the balance from now on and ignore the forums. I’ve lost faith in them.
Calm down Wo1f, take a breather
Flip flop is very useful for ping pong killers. Hag, legion, Billy. Solidarity is one hell of a perk with botany and self care, very useful and very very time saving, huge counter to thanat, MoM is getting changed, yes, but we don’t even know how much of a change there’s going to be. You act like it’s going to be terrible post rework, we don’t even know yet.
If I made a list of things I’d change no one would read it because it’d be huge.
The pip system still sucks, I shouldn’t have to drag the game out before i get my 4 kills. If I have to play in a way that’s makes the game more fun for survivors, why don’t survivors have to play in a way that’s more fun for killers?
Oh it’s too late for that, I’ve been nothing but nice and I’m tired of the mods not suppressing the attitude and disrespect, so I will. Gunna be breaking a lot of pallets today.
To be fair Legion needed a change, the nerfs are a bit overkill but its hard to balance them without a complete change in power as all the devs did was use the borrowed time mechanic for it, to me they were a wasted oppertunity killer.
It was like a lot of us said, they teetered on the edge of being OP and trash, tbh the devs have put them in a place which isnt as trash as people thought it would be, it just takes a lot of adapting and a complete change in how you played them, they are now more in line with the vision they wanted for them but it seems they will never be a top tier killer and will stay around mid tier for the forseeable future if not always, the problem with their vaulting is its hard to balance and have counter play as it should never be something that gives a guarantedd free hit just for picking to play as them.
The devs had lack of insight with Legion and by wanting to make something fun they didnt understand how to make such a concept work for both side so Legion was a very ill thought out killer as no matter what they do one side will have less fun, this concept is evident when they also brought out MoM, the design team seem to sometimes run with an idea and lack the understanding of how it will impact the game and make it more tedious, while I dont like the proposed change of rotection hits something needs done with the perk as it has no counter play against most killers, counter play is needed and its unfortunate they left borrowed time with the same mechanic as Legion as that got over buffed imo.
The other perks you mentioned Solidarity and Flip Flop well they are trash compared to others in the game.
The Pig well her change to end game was actually needed as it could mean easy free kills, it was a nerf to her end game and how some people liked to play as her, it is something they could do with looking at imo.
Personally I like the idea someone put forward of pausing the timer if trapped but I would add that when trapped the timer should not go below 1 min and if it does resets to that time for balance, there is no point putting the option back in if you get the trap off with 15-30 seconds left to go and the gate is on the other side of the map so there need to be time to evade and have a chance to get out while being hunted to add some counterplay.
Nothing is ever final and they do listen to feedback, the problem is not all feedback is good, the devs have to put up with so much crap from these and other forums I wouldnt be surprised if at some point they said screw it and stopped reading them as so many seem to think their idea is what needs to be implemented into the game, this is not our game, this is the devs game, love or hate it, if they decide to listen to feedback so be it but if they dont well it is what it is.
Nerfs have been happening on both sides but it seems more and more people only see what affects them directly, sometimes people cant see the forrest for the trees.
Most people on the forums are not survivor mains, there are more killers and those who play both equally, its very evident if you read posts, a survivor mains post is generally a lot more downvoted.
The only way balance can happen is to see the problem from both sides, mains on either saide are bad for the game imo, understanding why a change was made allows players to give feedback on changes they believe may be needed and do it in a more constructive manner.
Its like the Pig change, If someone cant understand why the Pig trap change was needed with the implementation of the egc how can they think of a logical way to add it back in and add some counter play to make it balanced?
thanks for the feedback
If those perks are so useful why isn't everyone running them? Or why Flip Flop and not tenacity or unbreakable? Solidarity ... and Self Care why exactly? How these 2 perks are good together? Botany i understand. I'm not acting like MoM it's gonna be terrible. Just stating it's getting nerfed/changed soon.
How about you write, just for me, 3 nerfs that you think were bad and how you would fix them? I would gladly read atleast those 3.
And im not defending the emblems. Just stating how the *game* wants you to play the game.
@DarkWo1f997
Cringe.
That is weird... Not trying to be an ass.. butt...
You write a post giving some feedback... cool cool... but also mention you aren't playing till Legion is buffed or till the Ghost comes out..
So some write... Cya.... And you act like?.. They weren't supposed to?.. Where you asking them to provide feedback on why you are taking a break? I don't get what the intention was... when you tell someone "Cringe" when they say "See you later alligator"
...
Odd.... Just odd.
"Dear Miss Piggy;
My head is ready to be put in your helmet.
Love Kermmie"