Leatherbilly
Leatherbilly
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- Leatherbilly
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@Mister_Holdout said:
@Leatherbilly My friend, those add ons sound bloody amazing. I can just imagine all the fun I would have playing Leatherface.
Amazing ideas😉
Much appreciated! You have anything to add? I discuss it with the Basement Discord all the tume.
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Some of the add-ons are memes, in traditional BHVR fashion, particularly the ultra rares which have little practical application, but many alternative playstyles are facilitated by the add-on rework and baseline buffs.
That said, with these changes he should be relatively decent at high ranks, barring the fact of course that he'll get genrushed, which is more of an issue of map design and I don't feel comfortable giving LF band-aid fixes for game design that needs to be fixed eventually anyways.
Thanks for your glowing recommendation by the way, I do really appreciate it. BHVR does reply to me sometimes, particularly Peanits. Doing my best, because they really did LF dirty with his add-ons.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
This was very informative, thank you Leatherbilly.
Honestly, the devs should just put you in charge of reworking Leatherface. Such an iconic killer deserves to be viable in red ranks.
Leatherface's add-ons also need to be modernized to the new standard, which my old rework did.
I'll just link it below if you're interested:
BASELINE CHANGES:
Revving down the chainsaw (cancelling the charge-up) is now nearly instant
Moderately increases the Chainsaw's movement speed
The Cannibal no longer tantrums from touching a wall; instead, he tantrums at the end of his Chainsaw attack if he fails to hit a valid target (At least one survivor or pallet)
ADD-ON CHANGES
COMMON
Spark Plug: (Unchanged)
Worn Switch: An old tree branch used for violent reprimand. Slightly increases the Chainsaw's movement speed. Slightly increases the Chainsaw's charge time.
Chainsaw File: Slightly reduces the noise made by the Chainsaw. Slightly reduces the Cannibal’s terror radius.
Speed Limiter: Chainsaw does not automatically trigger the Dying State. Chainsaw attacks apply Deep Wounds. Get 50 % more Bloodpoints for Chainsaw Score Events in the Deviousness Category.
UNCOMMON
Primer Bulb (Unchanged)
Knife Scratches: Slightly increases the Chainsaw's movement speed. Slightly increases the Chainsaw's charge time. Moderately increases acceleration when using the Chainsaw.
Homemade Muffler: Moderately reduces the noise made by the Chainsaw. Moderately reduces the Cannibal’s terror radius.
Long Guide Bar: (Unchanged)
Grisly Chains: The effect’s timer does not begin counting down until the survivor is unhooked/recovers from slugging.
RARE
Light Chassis: Slightly increases revving movement speed. Stacks.
Chili: Slightly increases the Chainsaw duration (One additional swing).
Beast’s Marks: Moderately increases the Chainsaw's movement speed. Slightly increases the Chainsaw's charge time. Tremendously increases acceleration when using the Chainsaw.
Rusted Chains: The effect’s timer does not begin counting down until the survivor is unhooked/recovers from slugging.
Carburetor Tuning Guide: Moderately decreases the Chainsaw's charge time. Slightly reduces the noise made by the Chainsaw. Slightly reduces reduces the Cannibal’s terror radius.
VERY RARE
Award-Winning Chili: Moderately increases the Chainsaw duration (Two additional swings).
Decompression Valve: This valve releases saw compression and allows for an easier start-up. Slightly decreases the Chainsaw's charge time. Slightly increases revving movement speed.
Franklin’s Knife: A memento reminding the Cannibal of the day he failed his family and brought about their undoing. Fills the holder with shame and desperation. Each time a survivor is unhooked, the Cannibal’s anguish grows.
Zero tokens: Tremendously increases the time penalty during tantrums.
One token: Moderately decreases revving movement speed
Two Tokens: Moderately increases the Chainsaw ‘s charge time
Three tokens: Grants the ability to kill Survivors by your own hand
Begrimed Chains: The effect’s timer does not begin counting down until the survivor is unhooked/recovers from slugging.
Short Guide Bar: Lightens and improves the handling of the chainsaw. Slightly reduces the reach of the Chainsaw attack. Considerably increases revving movement speed. Stacks.
ULTRA RARE
Full Chisel Chains: Square-cornered teeth allow for the more efficient cutting of “wood.” Hitting a survivor will reset the chainsaw attack duration. Moderately increases the Chainsaw's movement speed. Tremendously increases the Chainsaw's charge time.
Demolition Chains: A carbide-tipped demolition chain, durable under extended use for the destruction of “buildings.” Destroying a pallet with the Chainsaw will reset the chainsaw attack duration instead of ending it. Slightly decreases revving movement speed. Slightly increases the Chainsaw's charge time. (Whenever Leatherface resets his power, he must re-accelerate from his minimum speed.)
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@AetherBytes said:
TBH I'd just be happy if we weren't punished for releasing the chainsaw, if they're not gonna let us juggle it like billy's
Leatherface unfortunately needs substantially more than a single, minor QoL change.
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@Chaotic_Riddle said:
I really think just changing the Chili add-ons to your suggested ‘extended swings’ would be a better change than what they currently do. I really like this! Hopefully our boy Bubba can get some love. :)
That was one of the changes my rework made back in the day, but it unfortunately seems we'll be waiting a while for LF's rework due to his low priority.
I don't think BHVR agrees with the community on how abysmal he really is right now.
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@Dehitay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541568#Comment_541568
I love how everything thinks it's some super awesome strategy to never cleanse against Plague, yet apparently Myer's infinite EW3 addon is apparently super powerful. All the survivors going down in one hit for the rest of the game is the same end goal, except it's easier to get everybody broken and doesn't require an ultra rare addon.
Myers vaults faster, has extended lunges and a reduced terror radius. Also, Myers isn't some great killer, he's just mid tier.
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There's no reason to ever cleanse Plague's power because even if you're injured you can run her for 3 minutes per chase because she's a basic killer.
Clown's bottles just actually don't help considering you **slow yourself down to slow the survivor down**.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/539222#Comment_539222
Devour hope is a bit of an edge case and we'll have to take a look at that when we get time (the game doesn't treat a mori from devour hope differently from an offering right now). We're taking a look at some of the issues on the killer side of emblems right now, but I don't have anything set in stone to share just yet.
Much appreciated to hear from you, as always. Devour Hope is indeed a cornercase, but one consistent trend is that Gatekeeper is entirely out of out control as Killer, and if you use instant downs, your Chaser is arbitrarily punished.
There is effectively no difference between hitting a Survivor once to take away two health states instantly and hitting them twice in extremely rapid succession to take away the same two health states, but one is rewarded twofold over the other.
Thanks again for your reply, good to know BHVR is thinking about it!
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/537217#Comment_537217
Oh his stalking is BS atm, which is why the hotfix is coming in so we should be able to actually reveal him if we see him and avoid being exposed by an easily abusable buffer.
Fun to abuse, though.
The hot fix in no way affects line of sight.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/539410#Comment_539410
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/539400#Comment_539400
I doubt you could cause me to think otherwise. The only map i dislike is Coldwind. And its becauae that corn can cause me to lose sight pretty easily. And thats a personal slill issue
I think if you played against him/her in a KYF against BL on Haddonfield you'd think differently lmao
Your comments lead me to believe you haven't seen a competent team run the Haddonfield infinites properly, but what perplexes me is that the map is still awful even without the semi-infinites.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
I have very little problems on haddonfield tbh. Its a fun map to play as killer imho. If you cant cut it just sit there and do nothin or train yourself.
There is, and I want to emphasize this, LITERALLY NO COUNTERPLAY to a remotely competent team here for the majority of Killers.
It has so many egregiously safe time wasting tiles and horrendous semi-infinite-spawning RNG compounding the already static semi-infinites, loaded with safe pallets, that you will lose unless they're completely clueless.
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@Gorgonia said:
Keep it civil, guys. We can all agree or disagree but we're in no place to look down on others or ban them from participating in the forums. If we don't like someone else's answer, we ignore it and move on.
It's pretty clear that some of us will call balls and strikes, arguing for nerfs and buffs to both sides where necessary, whereas others are more interested in preserving their side's most ridiculous and overtuned playthings.
Everyone knows this map is completely ridiculous and there are many disingenuous obfuscations taking place here.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/539349#Comment_539349
Suck it up. Really. Stop the whining. When Haddonfield gets reworked/disabled, Killers will cry about the next Map. And then Survivors will start about The Game.
Maybe all DBD players should stop to be entitled little crybabies and simply play a Map, even if it is not in their favor.
But I know, this is too much I expect from people who are Adults..
Considering map design is one of the biggest problems in the game, yeah we will complain about it, just like most of us agree that Nurse and Hillbilly would need nerfs if we fixed map design. Prayer beads and Nurse range/extra blinks are ridiculous add-ons, further examples.
But that's because we're "adults" and not parisan hacks defending our side's most overpowered toys. Haddonfield is particularly egregious and if we get it without being Nurse or Hag, we lose on the spot at any reasonably competent team.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/539291#Comment_539291
Yeah, completely justified if a Killer DCes on a Map he does not like. But god forbid a Survivor DCs and the Killer does not get his precious BBQ-Stack. This is basically a catastrophe.
I mean... It is one Map. If you get on this Map and lose. Suck it up. You cannot win them all.
All this whining from DBD players is simply pathetic.
It's pathetic to defend a map you've agreed equates to an automatic loss. There is no map where you automatically lose as Survivor.
The most killer sided maps, none of which were actually named here as counterpoints, are Wrecker's Yard, Gas Heaven and Father Campbell's Chapel. None of them mean you lose instantly as Survivor.
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@Gorgonia said:
It's not about fairness, it's about being different. Like I said, it could be tweaked or changed to make it more viable for killers, without its losing its design essence.
Great, and until then disable it so we can stop DCing every time the game tells us we lose for free.
>_>.
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@Paladin_Goo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/539275#Comment_539275
It doesn't mean that in the slightest. It's one of the most unique maps in the game. For example, it's one of only two (I think?) maps that doesn't have a killer shack.
It's unique in that it's one of two maps the killer should maintain a 100% DC rate on.
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@Paladin_Goo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/539223#Comment_539223
Same could be said for Shelter Woods, which is extremely killer sided, though. Like any game, people will have their maps they perform better on. That's just how it works. I'm not saying Haddonfield is perfect, cause it totally needs a rework, but it's not under any circumstance unmanageable. I just 4k'd on their as Billy not 10 minutes ago.
Shelter woods is not killer sided and hasn't been since they upped the pallet count and increases safe pallet density; it's now RNG whether or not it favors Killer or Survivors.
@Gorgonia said:
Wait, you want a map reworked only because it's giving you a hard time? Then I want The Game reworked because every time I play it it's because some Legion or Nurse or Doctor or Spirit burned the offering because they know how much of an advantage they got there. Or maybe the Coal Tower, or any other open map because Billy goes from one side of the map to the other in 5 seconds. C'mon... xD
The game is not Killer sided unless you're Nurse or Doctor. It has a majority safe pallets with insane density nearby and above the bathroom/basement tile.
@Paladin_Goo said:
Eh, Haddonfield is extremely survivor sided, but maps like Coal Tower or Shelter Woods are extremely killer sided. Haddonfield is also a beast map if you run trapper. I've also done well on it with Huntress and Billy.
Coal Tower is also not killer sided, and it has an unreasonably large loop with the tower itself.
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4k, nearly depipped.
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Just some more examples of the Emblem system literally not accomplishing anything. It doesn't facilitate matchmaking nor does it assess skill. It also fails to encourage any healthy playstyles but rather achieves the opposite.
@Peanits Is this system being reconsidered for Killer?
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/535204#Comment_535204
I don't think he misunderstood, he just used the wrong wording.
This is why he wants to make it so the Survivor has to be visble to GF to reveal him. He doesn't want a situation where you can reveal him while the Survivor is hiding behind cover.
I mean in all fairness that means they clearly know you're there. I've been in that spot, sometimes you can reposition and be able to stalk again.
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@Huntar said:
That's how it is with every DLC. Every single one of them has a cosmetic or two that are locked to buying it wholesale. Buying with Auric cells is always a bad idea, if it's available elsewhere.
This is the only one that literally doesn't have a difference in price.
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@AetherBytes said:
Auric cells is if you want the killer, DLC if you want the package.
It's literally the same price. Why would I think there would be any difference whatsoever?
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533440#Comment_533440
Solid take on the maps. It's pretty sad how maps that are otherwise fine are either 1. too huge 2. too cluttered or 3. have a BS main building with a semi-infinite window.
I honestly think maps should be their number one priority atm, but I doubt they'll be fixed at an acceptable rate. I feel like turning the PC off every time I hear the Haddonfield music at the start of the match.
Same. To be clear, I'm fine with adding more, gamable pallets if they fix the issues on these maps and it turns out to make Killers too dangerous, but a lot of these maps are just free losses right now because the strongest loops also lack counterplay.
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@Doc said:
Clown isn’t trash
Yes he is.
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@UncannyLuck said:
Which map(s) would you say are a 'good size' for killers right now?
Recurrent issues:
- Don't put safe tiles next to one another or Survivors can chain the instead of using them to break chase
- Safe pallets shouldn't outnumber unsafe pallets
- Maps shouldn't be excessively large
MacMillan estate
Coal Tower: Just fix the tower loop, the map is the second smallest in DBD
Groaning Storehouse: The size is fine, but there are many safe loops, including the Storehouse itself; not the worst map
Ironworks of Misery: Fix the Ironworks itself; the map itself is also quite large.
Shelter Woods: Very large and RNG dependent, really depends on how many safe loops are spawned.
Suffocation Pit: Fairly large with many safe loops but this map isn't so bad provided it doesn't spawn the semi-infinites, which is RNG
Autohaven Wreckers
Azarov's Resting Place: Too many safe loops, and it's quite large.
Blood Lodge: Same as the above.
Gas Heaven: Mostly fine.
Wretched Shop: Combines safe loops with an incredibly safe Storehouse tile and a large map size.
Wrecker's Yard: Good map.
Coldwind Farms
Fractured Cowshed: You'll see this on every Coldwind map; it's too damn huge, almost every loop is idiot proof it's so safe, the safe loops spawn literally next to each other and the Cowshed is an insufferably safe tile. Every Coldwind map is one of the worst in DBD.
The Thompson House: Same as above except the Thompson House isn't as egregiously safe as the Cowshed is. Still an absolutely outrageous map.
Torment Creek: Absolutely terrible; all the criticisms of Cowshed applies here, as the Creek building is incredibly safe, and it's another of the "RNG matters" maps, although it's always bad, it's just a degree of how bad it is.
Rancid Abbatoir: The odd one out of the Coldwind maps; it isn't too large, but consists almost exclusively of safe tiles within close, chainable proximity of one another. Like the rest of Coldwind Farms, mind games are seldom feasible.
Rotten Fields: The worst of the Coldwinds; it's massive and has safe structures along the parameter with a gigantic cornfield between the safety.
Crotus Prenn Asylum
Disturbed Ward: One of two maps that is DC worthy; it's unnecessarily huge, full of safe structures, and the Asylum tile is one of the safest in the game with an ABUNDANCE of safe, non-mind-gamable pallets under the same roof. With Balanced Landing, it's nearly an infinite loop to boot.
Father Campbell's Chapel: Talk about the opposite of its sister location; this is the fairest map in DBD in my opinion, as it offers plenty of mind games with some safe pallets strewn about and a sensible center building that isn't broken with Balanced Landing.
haddonfield
Lampkin Lane: The other DC worthy map, it has several guaranteed semi-infinite, idiot-proof loops with safe pallets attached, and with BL the Myers house is infinite.
Backwater Swamp
The Pale Rose: Good map.
Grim Pantry: Rework the pantry itself and add some mind games to some of the loops and it's fine.
Lery's memorial Institute
Treatment Theatre: Another contender for the fairest map award, as it offers numberous short lines of sight to lose the Killer. Many of the loops are gamable, but some are safe to offer an escape via the short lines of sight. Generators are harder to rush down despite the close proximity of the map because it's indoors, and it's the smallest map, so mobility isn't essential to be viable here.
Red forest
Mother's Dwelling: Just needs to be smaller, all of the tiles are individually fine.
The Temple of Purgation: Same as Mother's Dwelling.
Springwood
Preschool: Several ridiculously safe tiles and idiot-proof loops, but it's being reworked anyways.
Gideon Meat Plant
The Game: Awful. A literal majority of pallets (by a wide margin) are safe and lack any mind game whatsoever, most of them within a chainable proximity to one another. If you can't negate safety to some extent, your Killer can be bullied.
Yamaoka Estate
Family Residence: Too huge and too cluttered; full of safe loops, too.
Ormond
Mount Ormond Resort: Mount Framedrop Resort is a pain due to map size and the safety of loops.
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@UncannyLuck said:
Didn't they say during the anniversary stream that they were looking at fixing loops to be less strong?
They were, but loops aren't the only issue, as a ton of maps just need to be smaller than they are. Map size exasperates the disparity between the haves and the have-nots; don't have mobility? Chases take longer and patrols take longer.
Then because Hillbilly exists and negates map size, BHVR has to throw in a ton of loops to make Hillbilly not overpowered on that map, which doubly screws the non-mobile cast of killers, which is the majority of them.
Not to mention an overwhelming number of maps need loop changes, and the pace at which they're reworked is rather slow because BHVR isn't prioritizing this issue.
That leads me to this thread; people see GF, correctly identify that he isn't viable, but then they reach the conclusion that GHOSTFACE has the problem; he does not, it's the game itself that is the operative factor in his non-viability.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533306#Comment_533306
"That's what I was trying to articulate here; I really don't want to design killers around the bad map design, gen rushing and flawed emblem system, because then if they're ever fixed we'll have to change them again."
I agree, I just don't think they actually want the maps changed in the way we are referring to. Even if they do, to actually fix all the maps now would take them a very, very, very long time at the rate they're going.
I think map reworks/changes should be much, much higher on their priority list than it currently seems to be. It''s one of the biggest, if not THE biggest issue in the game.
If the maps were actually changed properly we would see almost a 180 in the tier list of meta killers without actually having touched the killers themselves. This is because we'd be changing the criteria of what makes a killer strong essentially.
Exactly. Just to preempt the argument "but you could just buff everyone to Billy/Nurse level": that stifles diversity, because there are only so many kits you can design that offer mobility and chasing in sufficient magnitude to be viable, and the field is much more open if these facets weren't absolutely necessary the way they are now.
Not to mention there's an issue of counterplay that begins to crop up once you design kits this strong and the game quality becomes binary, repetitious and dull.
You're absolutely correct, it should 100% be their top priority to fix the maps, because tweaking everything around the maps means we'll have to fix it again later if they ever address the game's core issues.
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That isn't exactly what I was saying. I was saying that killers shouldn't need to be as strong as these two to be viable, but right now they do because of other problems in the game, and it's precisely those problems that I think we should collectively complain about.
@Eninya said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/69646/regarding-the-ghost-face-nerfs
Mid-tier killers don't need to be as strong as the "top tier killers" (often referred to as the only viable ones) to be "viable"?
lolwut
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533265#Comment_533265
I agree that map design is the biggest hindrance that is hurting their viability.
They need to make them good enough to compensate and function in a world where the maps don't support their play styles since they won't be able to fix the maps in time, if they even intend to fix them properly anyway.
That's what I was trying to articulate here; I really don't want to design killers around the bad map design, gen rushing and flawed emblem system, because then if they're ever fixed we'll have to change them again.
Rather, I think the criticism should be applied to the source of the problem itself; the Killer's objective takes too long due to map design and gen times relative to the survivor's objective, and the emblem system compounds the issue. If those were fixed we wouldn't need to touch the mid tier killers, GF included, at all.
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@Fictionalname said:
This sounds like a fanboy TS.
So you're gonna ignore the fact that this has happened before with pig, freddy, puky killer and legion, i.e getting a decent buff to lure people to buy that product, then turning it around taking a huge dump on said killers until it's to the bottom tier?
It's false advertisement. Plain and simple.
I'm far from being a fanboy. I rip on map design, the Emblem system and the grabbag full of mediocre killers constantly. If you look up my threads, historically speaking it's 90% criticism, and even this thread is criticism.
I just don't think Ghost Face himself deserves criticism; he won't be viable but that isn't because there's something wrong with him, it's that he gets buried by gen times, exploiting ridiculous map design and the Emblem System. He's very fun to play as & against, and his power wouldn't be bad if the problems already existing in the game were fixed. He's a healthy Killer to add to the roster.
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@Blueberry said:
Not only does he not need those nerfs coming but I think he still needs buffs, the dude is pretty bad. Against any competent red ranks you are getting looped to oblivion.
He will indeed. That's what I mean, killers like Myers, Ghostface and Huntress should be viable, but they aren't because of map design and the Emblem system.
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Will you guys be addressing his pallet breaking speed? His seems to be appreciably slower than the average killer, a characteristic shared with Plague.
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Also before the hotfix coming up, you can just permanently expose people because your power comes up to re-stalk them before the Exposed actually wears off.
Considering he's just an M1 killer in chase (and you can just 99% like a Myers) this isn't the biggest deal in the world, but it's definitely the bigger nerf.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/532989#Comment_532989
Balancing killers around their level is fine if you're balancing around low purple ranks.
If you want to balance around the highest level, which you should imo, killers need to be balanced around Billy/Spirit level.
Not if they actually balanced survivors around Myers/Huntress as well.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/532699#Comment_532699
"It's because to be viable right now you need an absurdly powerful ability with limited counterplay, which isn't particularly healthy design, and it's certainly not the toolset that the Ghost Face has."
This isn't accurate. What you need to be viable is either high mobility, a power that counters loops, or a combination of the two. That does not mean a killer with limited counter play.
Example being Spirit. Rank one viable while also have a high skill cap and lots of counters in the form of play style and perks.
Killers wouldn't require these things to be viable if loops weren't as broken as they are. However the devs aren't fixing these or at least at a speed that will have it solved even with a years time. Since that is the case, this is the world we are left in with determining what makes a killer strong.
You need mobility and the ability to shorten chases. This is literally saying "you need to have both of the two most important things in a Killer's kit; you can skimp on tracking, but you need EVERYTHING else."
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@GenSim12345 said:
I think most people are more pissed off that Ghostface is getting a nerf so soon after release rather then the nerfs being terrible.
I do agree with everything you said in this post, the Killer role, emblems, and poor maps just make killer a unpleasant experience.
I'm firmly of the opinion that the game should be balanced around Huntress/Myers tier killers, and in that case Ghost Face would be perfectly good.
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@Blueberry said:
"The complaints we should be making are that mid tier killers aren't viable, not that killers aren't designed to be top tier."
This has never been the complaint the player base has had. This is the complaint the devs think we are saying and it continues to be perpetuated.
"The complaints we should be making are that mid tier killers aren't viable"
This IS what we have been saying for over 2 years.
It is what many of us have said, but I see a lot of people complaining that Ghost Face won't be viable; they're right, but not because of the changes BHVR made. It's because to be viable right now you need an absurdly powerful ability with limited counterplay, which isn't particularly healthy design, and it's certainly not the toolset that the Ghost Face has.
Nor should it be, which is why the complaints perplex me. He's not in a particularly bad position, it's just that the Killer role as a whole is.
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@Peanits said:
This is very well said. I will just add to the detection area bit: This does not necessarily make him easier to detect like some may thing, this just makes the area of the screen that is checked to see if you are looking at the killer a tiny bit larger. This is mostly to help people who have a hard time keeping their camera on the killer during a chase, which as you've mentioned, is not meant to be the case.
Your points about level design and emblem scoring are definitely valid and I'll be sure to bring those up with the team. The latter isn't necessarily a Ghost Face specific issue, killers that instantly down survivors can have a rough time with emblems. It's definitely worth discussing.
Thanks for the reply! My intention wasn't to take snipes at BHVR, I just wanted to elucidate the problems plaguing Ghost Face because they're far from unique to him. I just don't want to see a game where every Killer's power has to have limited counterplay and constrains the viable Killer list by being overly effective in every capacity, which is currently what it takes to be viable in light of loops that can take 40 seconds to break through and have no mind game potential against gen times that can be popped in 3 and a half minutes. Not to mention the issue of Chaser, and Gatekeeper being largely out of your hands.
Frankly, I see Myers as being the perfect "bar" that every Killer should measure up to, and that the Survivors should be balanced against. Ample counterplay, fun for both sides, and I don't see Ghost Face as being that far off of Myers, but that won't stop survivors from consistently crushing him at high ranks due to aforementioned issues on live, which is what will happen unfortunately. Does BHVR have such a "standard" in mind when balancing out of curiosity?
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@Peanits hate to tag you, but is there any consideration at present for the role of the Emblem system? It seems to try to both encourage healthy play styles and assess performance but comes up short in both departments.
Gatekeeper is entirely out of the Killer's hands, and Chaser penalizes certain perks and powers.
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@Mochan said:
The emblem system is just a poor attempt by the devs to incentivize player behavior they want to see.
Newbies with less than 100 hours might want to try for it as they are used to climbing ranks in other games, but anyone past 100 hours doesn't really care about the emblem system, pips and ranking and have their own way of playing.
That's true but the matchmaking system uses the emblem system's ranks, so good players will be kept in low ranks to continue abusing players legitimately of that skill level.
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Few more I forgot to upload. Hope I got my message across that it has no correlation with results in any capacity whatsoever.
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Another 4k safety where I clearly pressured as hard as was physically possible, even indicated by this poor system itself.
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Golden Malicious and Iridescent gatekeeper, so I clearly pressured, but I had the audacity to use my power, so I safetied.
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Why do killers want to 4k all the time?
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@Peanits said:
Making bloodlust a perk wouldn't necessarily work. The purpose of the mechanic in the first place is to prevent someone from infinitely abusing a strong loop. This way, the killer will eventually gain speed and catch up faster. Without it, you risk bringing back a couple different infinites, and you can't expect everyone to run a specific perk just in case someone finds an infinite.
While I agree in principle, Bloodlust as a mechanic fails to stop overpowered loops becuase the strongest loops involve a 10+ second run around a giant structure with a window and a pallet nearby, allowing them to just loop three times then drop the pallet, run to another nearby time waster that in no way facilitates chase breaking (like a jungle gym) then back to the semi-infinite. Stuns strip Bloodlust and the operative factor in preventing this from lasting forever is the Entity Blocker.
Consequently, we DO need to run a specific perk, namely Bamboozle, to stop certain egregious loops, such as the Coal Tower or Ironworks of Misery to name a couple, or we're just giving up 2 to 3 generators per chase.
Finally, certain infinites are infinite and not a misnomer, such as Haddonfield, which will literally last forever with Balanced Landing. Here, even Bamboozle doesn't help and it will remain a safe zone where we're oblige to let them go for free, even if they just always run there in chase.
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https://clips.twitch.tv/ShyAltruisticNeanderthalBrokeBack
Lefty got a 4k depip, and if this doesn't make my case then nothing in the world will convince you.
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Not to be sarcastic, I'm just genuinely curious if this is seen by BHVR as the system working as it is intended.
I don't see either of these games as losses to be quite honest.
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@thesuicidefox said:
You tombstoned 2 of them. That means no Chaser and no Malicious. If you smacked them first and took some hooks you would have points in these emblems.
If you got a hook but still got 0 in Chaser it means you were camping with no other survivors around.
If you got nothing in Gatekeeper it means you did nothing to actively stop them on the gens and/or they just did the gens too fast.
Post a video of the full game so we can get the entire context of the situation. I won't argue that some killers need tweaks regarding emblems, but it looks to me like you really didn't play as well as you think.
I know why it happened and I know how the system works, I'm saying it's asinine that it works this way.
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Round two of Emblem System / 10.
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@Blueberry said:
I honestly don't blame Leatherface players for just camping. He such a bad killer that he has no choice. If he plays normally he'll just get trashed.
Wish BHVR saw this and would buff the poor thing. Peanits said they're aware he's weak but I'm unsure if they get quite how bad his power is.