LALYTHIA
LALYTHIA
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I think that would be nice. Face camping the first hooked survivor to death is absolute ridiculous game play and people who don't see this as a problem are kidding themselves.
It would also be nice for extreme tunneling. For example, the tunnel mori.
At least it would make it less painful for survivors while not taking anything away from Killers.
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Regardless of why the points are so low - the matchmaking is still horrendous.
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@Smeagolthevile said:
Okay so I'v been thinking a lot about positive reinformcement vs negative reinforcement and one think I'v seen alot of is ways to punish survivors for using SWF. I have come to the conclusion that negative reinforcement doesnt work and isn't the right solution to this problem.
What we need to do is incentivise killers, so I have a few solutions. One is one I saw mentioned elseware and I think it bears repeating. let a killer have a toggle before game that says 'que for Survive with Friends teams' and grant them additional blood points for it, since they are opting in to play against these teams.
Second is a bit different then just blood point bonus. What I'm really suggesting is a 5th killer perk slot.
You have somewhere between 3 and 5 killer perks that are specifically designed for SWF teams.
For example 'The bonds of friendship' The entity allows friendship to grow in its realm just so it can use the hope it brings to crush those that seek it. Whenever you hook a survivor any of the survivor's friends within a 15-30-45 meter radius (no idea on ranges) has their aura revealed to you for as long as they are within that range of the hook. (a reverse Kindred perk).
This perk would ONLY be equippable in the 5th perk slot, and that 5th slot is only activated when you are up against a team with SWF teams, and unlike other perks, the upgrade doesn't come from unlocking degrees of it on the tree, but it comes from the number of players on the team. So if its a SWF team of 2, and 2 randoms, its fairly minor but gives the killer a benefit since the survivors are gaining an additional benefit.
Separating SWF teams into a category killers had to opt in to would end SWF teams. Very few killers would choose that game mode. If Killers cared about BP, they wouldn't insidious camp. Ending SWF teams because of queue times would cost the game significant revenue.
Also, providing an additional perk, on top of their existing perks is a no go. If for no other reason than it would alert the Killer to the fact that they are facing a SWF and give them the opportunity to lobby dodge.
I do like the idea of introducing perks you can use specifically to counter SWF though - like the one you mentioned. But I dont think you should be able to know whether or not you need to use it. Thats how perks work now. You don't know if you're going to go against a Doc, you just have to choose whether or not you want to bring calm spirit because thats a killer you really have trouble with. You dont know if you'll need DS but you bring it just in case and risk it being a wasted perk slot. It should have the same risk/reward.
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@shwag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1267416#Comment_1267416
Is that not the same as killing yourself on hook?
Why is it ok to only take the fun away from one side and not the other ?
No, it is not the same, since when 1 person dies on hook there are still three people to kill. The match doesn't screech to a halt.
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@Feiten said:
Now why would the devs know killers are going to dodge SWF if they add a icon like you say, so they don't add it on to avoid the lobby dodge...oh right.. cause they know SWF has some sort of advantage over the killers that causes killers to dodge.
I dont mind swf but I really dislike the swfs that think they have no advantage or free perk whatsoever.
The same reason they don't show survivors the Killer before the match...the same reason they don't show either party the map before the match...
That's the game.
You get what you get.
And Killers already get more information than anyone else pre-match.
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@BillyAndStu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1203698#Comment_1203698
Yeah damn the game is actually more fair for killers yeah damn we should totally chill. Gens still wont feel that much slower and considering how broken a swf group is havign some sort of indication would save killers some headache. And people like you need to understand that without killers who actually want to play killer, there is no game. Fewer killers means longer quite times and even more sweaty campers/tunnelers. Its taken them literal years to remove the god loops from these maps and improve them so they arent totally survivor sided like most of the maps in the game.
Fair for Killers? This game has gotten nothing but easier for Killers for a year. 😂 Having an indication would not provide Killers any actual relief against SWF. It would only serve to allow them to lobby dodge or prepare to be toxic. I have zero interest in being part of a match where survivors are getting mori tunneled because they had the audacity to play with their friends. This change is not going to happen.
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She is fine as she is.
Going against her sucks. You either spend the entire match as a noisy 1 shot with your iron will wasted and an inability to hide well, or you give her ranged damage vomit and hope she has bad aim, as she can use it rapid fire.
In November, she had a 60% kill rate across all ranks, which means before the recent patch changes for Killers, she averaged a little over 2 kills a match. The game considers that balance...2 in, 2 out. I would agree, she isn't the best Killer, if your degree of measurement is how easy it is to kill all survivors. But if you enjoy playing her, then work on it.
If you consistently cannot kill anyone with her, perhaps you should find someone who mains her and get some more recommendations on builds and play style strategy. Stats show you should be doing better - you just have to find what combination of play style/perks/etc will make it work for you.
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@gatsby said:
It can extend loops with no counterplay. Like if a Survivor messes up a loop or vault they can just Dead Hard to avoid being hit and make it. Even if the Killer knows the Survivor has Dead Hard and is expecting it, sometimes there's nothing they can realistically do about it
Nah fam. The most annoying thing about dead hard is when it doesnt work. Which is all too frequent.
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@supersonic853 said:
Was watching a streamer and the killer literally said he brought his best addons and a mori and morid the streamer first. So was just wondering if others do it. I personally dont unless they like act cocky.
Yes (not me personally, but others). Many many many many many people do. 😂
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@Feiten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1266954#Comment_1266954
Didn't know there was survivors who didn't like that. I'll keep that in mind. Usually I do it if the last one doesn't struggle too much.
I know. It may be weird. I have experienced several killers who don't like it if you ######### at the end of a game when they had a bad match and know everyone could have escaped. I just think people don't want a pity win, they want to win legitimately. It just feels better.
If you really want to give someone a win because you dominated their match, just don't close the hatch or close it and don't pat the doors.
If I am trying to die in a match to give a Killer a sacrifice, I try and make it feel like a legitimate chase/down...unless they have completely given up. LOL It may be dumb, but I think anything you work for and achieve feels better than having it handed to you.
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@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
I think it would be cool if when you get a killer to Prestige 3 Rank 50 their power would become teachable. It would add another level of incentive to reaching that AND spreading out and playing other killers. Imagine Freddy whipping across the map using Billy's chainsaw, or Michael popping up behind you using hags teleport.
To be clear, you pick a power, not multiple powers (freddy gives up teleporting and dream snares for Billys chainsaw and running speed). Also, obviously, terror radius would be tied with the power instead of the character to keep things balanced.
It would also add a little depth to the game while increasing the skill cap on survivors a little (theyd have to pay attention to what the killers doing instead of who the killer is).
Thoughts?
No thank you.
Their perks are teachable. That's enough.
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That sounds like undue salt. BBQ is easily counterable and easy to detect if a Killer is using it.
I hate being carried to the hatch in a game where the Killer pwned my team. I'm gonna be annoyed either way for having a doodoo team or a sweaty, tryhard Killer. I prefer to die over a pity hatch. LOL I'd rather have that bundle of thoughtfulness sprinkled throughout the entire match than plopped down on one survivor at the end. I, admittedly, don't usually appreciate it.
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@PumpkinKing said:
Hello, I know this has come up a lot. But I have seen so many ebony mori’s as a survivor lately it is driving me up a wall.
I know some people like to equate keys to mori’s and to an extent yes. A killer can Mori someone once they have been hooked. In some cases that's as soon as the first minute of a match. Just think about that for a second.
For a key you need the hatch to spawn, which is impossible to do in the beginning of the match. If all 4 are alive you need all gens to be done, 3 alive you need 4 gens etc. A survivor can't just escape in the first few minutes as a killer can just Mori half the team.
As a killer I don't mind keys. That specific survivor has to last the match for the key to be used and I do alright as killer. Sure it can be frustrating when 3 survivors get out when I could have gotten them but I barely see keys.
As a survivor lately it has been almost every 3 matches has a Mori and 1 in 5 it feels like is an ebony Mori. I hate Mori's as a killer. I will bring one very rarely when I get sh*t on by survivors because rage lol but I despise using them.
Anyways there's my two cents as someone who plays both sides. Thank you.
Agreed. Keys and mori's are not that comparable in frequency or the way they can be used, even if they cause comparable types of frustration.
Yesterday I played 6 matches, 3 of them were moris, two of them were clown with the finger addon AND a mori. So it got really old, really fast. Especially after I was first hooked and tunneled off my hook. I was in the game for about 3 minutes thanks to my ability to dodge bottles and hits, but it wasn't really much consolation when I waited in a lobby for the match for twice as long.
I don't really mind moris. I just feel like I get them too frequently for something that is supposedly an ultra rare item.
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@just_a_noob said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1263622#Comment_1263622
BT does work on silent killers depending on the situation. Wraith just needs to be uncloaked, Freddy you just need to be awake, ghost face...make sure he’s not in stealth mode, same with pig. Freddy is probably the hardest to get BT to work against but it is possible
agreed that DH is broken. It hardly ever works.
A Killer who is coming to tunnel someone off a hook is not going to come in uncloaked/stealthed/etc. and get hit with BT. They will simply wait until you off hook and come out of crouch/stealth/invis. If you take a hit from Freddy as an off-hooker in order to get your BT save, it ruins your BT as getting hit puts you in the dream state. So, I guess if you want to get technical BT can work against all killers...it simply won't because all killers who can have a zero terror radius can avoid it very easily.
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@tea said:
Just asking because about 4/5 players in my games don't. I personally think they were an incredibly stupid addition on the survivor-side. No one can even tell which charm someone has because of how everyone is running around and how they don't even display in SWF lobbies.
Killer charms are okay, imo. Nothing special. I use charms, although I don't really care which I have equipped. More customization, albeit pointless and lackluster. Do you use charms? If so, why?
I dont notice them on survivors. I set mine up occasionally. But I do like to see what charms the Killer uses. :)
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NOED is really not that big of a deal. And this is coming from someone who was downed by NOED and basement camped to death on my first hook tonight, after doing 3 totems myself. It is more/less fair in some circumstances, sure. But its counter is straight forward if EVERYONE simply makes the effort to scout their area for a totem and cleanse it while they're doing gens/sneaking around.
Since killers pat gens at the beginning of a match, and I run Inner Strength, my first mission when I start a match is to find my closest totem and cleanse it. Imagine if everyone did that...80% of the totems would be gone in the first 60 seconds of the match.
I also don't really know why everyone needs a totem counter. Totem locations are varied but somewhat predictable. Its not that hard to tally them up as you go around the map.
I also find it to be a little hypocritical that survivors would ask for a totem counter to ensure they get NOED down before the end of a match, but are opposed to a DS indicator/timer. Tit for tat, folks. I dont want a DS timer, so I'm down to live without a totem counter.
The matches where I worry most about NOED, or find it the most problematic, is when the Killer isn't very good (these Killers tend to be high utilizers of NOED) and gens are getting done too quickly. When survivors just M1 the match down because there's no gen pressure, they open themselves up for a world of hurt in the NOED department. Unfortunately that includes me, since you can't stop your teammates from focusing down gens instead of doing a quick totem sweep.
The other is a face-camping killer...since the best recourse is to focus gens and that leaves no time for totems before end-game. But ######### killers gonna be #########...that match is a wash from the start anyway.
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@KnifeaToMeetYaXD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1265450#Comment_1265450
It used to grant a 50% immunity to all stuns, not 25% and there was no explanation provided for why it was changed. Stuns like DS were directly increased because of Enduring, and then didn't get lowered back after the Enduring change.
When it originated it was changed from having one stat for physical object stuns to two stats, one for physical object stuns and one for perk stuns, at different percent levels. That is what you're suggesting. That is what it used to be. And you're right. I haven't found an explanation for why it's gone through so many iterations, but they don't make changes for the sake of changes. I'm sure there is a reason.
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I feel like the game has some sort of pressure sensor that can tell when you're pulling off a gen or stopping a heal action. It always seems to choose that exact moment to populate a skill check, mid-pull, so that it inevitably blows the gen or makes you scream.
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@Thatboio101 said:
Hi there, honestly my first post on the forums, so just try to deal with me here.
I'll be completely honest: I'm absolutely biased towards killer as I have next to no time on survivor. That aside, I feel like DS combined with other super meta perks have just been sapping the fun out of the game.
Right as you reach the conclusion of your chase with all the gens completed, after being looped through windows or having SWF teams all shine flashlights at you, you finally go to pick up that pesky survivor...only to get stabbed in the back...literally.
I played five matches tonight, each one the same thing happened: I managed to hook every survivor at least once, they gen-rush and finish before I can go and get anymore hooks. No problem, that's not an issue. What is the issue is when 60 seconds still hasn't passed between the time it took to finish the other....we'll say 3 gens. People with DS active literally throw themselves in front of you to hit, won't leave until you pick them up, and then just DS you when you finally do and escape.
Combine this all with a well coordinated team, and it's just DS back-to-back. On one match in particular, I ate 3 DS's in stride and had them all escape since the person that opened the gate had already dipped (bless their soul for not teabagging at the gate)
Now, this is the part where I complain about how fair it is and start whining about the game being too hard for killers. At least, that's what it should be, but I actually did something else. After one of these matches, I actually messaged a few of the survivors from the SWF teams and asked them what they thought a killer should do when faced with these circumstances, here's what they had to say (These are all real responses I got):
Survivor 1: DS is an anti-tunneling perk, while you weren't tunneling, you still should have gone and hooked the first person you had hooked to begin with, their DS would have been off by then
Survivor 2: Just slug and start a timer for 60 seconds. Stand over their body and make sure they don't get healed by a teammate
Survivor 3: Give up and walk away from the gate. Go get a glass of water.
I dunno guys, option #3 is sounding mighty fine at this point. Then again, it's nearly 3AM here, and I might just be rambling before I pass out. What do you all think? Should survivors be getting DS's off near the gates and escaping? Should SWF teams be able to safely shield their teammates without having to worry about getting hung up on a hook? Again, this is all probably completely mindless rambling of a tired dude with nothing better to do, but I'm honestly open to hearing your suggestions. Think you can top mighty option #3?
The short answer, yes and yes.
Yes, survivors should get to use perks they brought to counter that exact situation.
Yes, survivors should be able to shield their teammates without "worrying" about getting hooked when their DS is active. Its intent is to allow for bolder game play. Its indicated in the perk quote itself, "There's nothing to be scared of."
Your description of what happened isn't very clear. But If you are consistently only getting 4 hooks before end-game starts and not killing anyone, you really need to re-evaluate your strategy, killer selection, and/or perks. The problem is not DS. All killers, with the exception of the nurse, statistically have an average kill rate over 50% or 2 survivors per match.
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Ugh, that latest hair is such a hard miss. They were going the right direction with the chunky headband but the weird like 2000's snooky bump is gross and her hair would not be poofed like that, but also be down. :/ a super miss IMO. A cute bun like the top, right from the OP with this headband would have been cuter.
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@KnifeaToMeetYaXD said:
I think a good way to make it more balanced against all Stuns would be to keep the 50% pallet stun resistance it currently has, and then give it 25% resistance to every other stun (at max level). That way it can still reduce stuns against perks like DS, but not make it a death sentence for using a perk like HeadOn.
That is how Enduring used to work. I'm sure there is a reason it was changed.
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I tried to watch this whole video, but its just so long and boring. 😵
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@shwag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1265327#Comment_1265327
Pretty sure trying to escape is their objective not hiding waiting for the other person to die like a coward so they can get a free escape lol
Maybe camping the hatch is their escape strategy. There is ZERO reason why Killers need any additional methods to get free kills given the implementation of EGC and hatch changes. LOL Again, report them and move on.
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@SasukeKun said:
**disclaimer this is just an opinion after playing**
Alpha Squads who vocalize your every move to the entire team the entire match is a little underwhelming as killer, you're not feared, there's only certain kits that can cover the pressure gap that other killer's play styles just don't. Then they sit there and tag team and voice with dead hard and etc to extend chases to no end and it's the perfect distraction to rush gens. I've seen numerous topics about how swf is over powered, this and that. What are your thoughts?
I think the mid chapter is a good start to balance out those 3-4 end of line perks some people run. It opens up maps to not just be an endless circle chase every time, and make it more unpredictable options. It seems running the new ruin with hex:retribution is the only option to slow down games for me. i just wish for more options to put pressure, it forces me to stick to a certain build if i don't want a terribly fast and frustrating match.
"it forces me to stick to a certain build if I dont want a terribly fast and frustrating match"
Welcome to what it's like to play survivor. 😂
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So because you cannot find them, which is part of a Killer's job, and they are hiding, which is part of a survivor's job, the game should automatically kill them after a while? 😂 Nah fam. Report them and move on.
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@Steah said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1263622#Comment_1263622
Where did you get that dead hard stat from fren
Personal experience from being paired with people who insist on using it while remarking, "######### DEAD HARD!" every time it doesn't work, at least once a match. I have never run it because it is well known to be buggy.
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I feel like the only way so many of the female characters have such terrible hair/makeup is that the designers are primarily male. LOL Clearly none of them have watched a youtube beauty tutorial in their lifetime.
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Agreed, it's dumb. Just makes you look like a weirdo tryhard in a non-competitive game. 😂 I never take those people seriously.
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Just sounds like you're not a very good killer. 🤷♀️ Maybe stick to survivor, since that's clearly your stronger side.
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@shwag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/151325/remove-mori-its-not-hard-is-it
Uhhh no sorry mori's are fun to use and have cool animation.
You could just get better at the game and not get caught ?
Well this standard dumb ######### Killer response took no time to show up in this thread. 🙄
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So you want buttholes to have an aura reading effect AND a visual distortion effect AND a sickness effect that nullifies iron will?
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@BurnedNoodles said:
when are dced survivors gonna give you your bbq stack. thats all i need to be happy
As long as they hadn't been previously hooked, I wouldn't care if a DC gave BBQ a stack as though they had. They shouldn't add a stack that couldn't have existed otherwise tho. Its already easier to gain BP as Killer, and less people in a match = easier match...plus ppl don't tend to DC when a match is fun or going well. LOL so...no need to really reward people for making others DC...but also not really fair to take away the opportunity for a stack because someone is salty. Just my complicated hot take on something that doesn't affect me at all. 😂
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@SpEz said:
The survivors objective is still too easy to accomplish, I play both sides and in my survivor games 8/10 at least two people escape . All survivors need to do is gens and waste the killers time by looping it’s so simple . This therefore makes killer stressful to play at times both sides should be enjoyable to play but unfortunately they are not atm . Now some people are gonna say your bad at killer , I played a game as huntress today and I was ending chases in less than 10-15 secs but as per the gems still flown by and one of them escaped . I honestly think the gen time should be increased by 10 seconds to make it 90 seconds per gen.
For starters, the idea that "at least" 2 people escape is a fallacy. The latest stats before the patch clarified that even the worst killers have a 50% kill rate or better, which means all killers average at least 2 kills per match. BEFORE loops got taken out, gens slowed, dead space added, palettes removed, etc. Also, as far as BHVR is concerned, 2 people dying and 2 people surviving is considered balance.
You are complaining because 1 person escaped your match...?? They are supposed to?? You are not supposed to 4k every single match?? That would be the definition of imbalance by this game's standards. LOL Just because you didn't 4k doesn't mean there is anything wrong with gen speeds.
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@Shocktober said:
Wall of text, can I get the TL;DR?
SWF is bad.
Survivors are bullies.
Survivors have better perks.
Matchmaking is bad.
Killer is no fun.
All BHVR cares about is money.
This game sucks.
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The rift is really just a poorly implemented battle pass. None of the options seem worth the time for the free version or the expense of the paid version. They would need to seriously improve the quality of the items earned Rift for me to buy it or even spend a lot of time on it.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1264614#Comment_1264614
Behavior doesnt reward this playstyle. They are punished by the emblem system for being too close to a hook. Killing everyone on first hook or not getting in enough chases.
Survivors reward camping by unhooking in killers faces before giving the killer a chance to leave.
Crappy as it is for the first person killed, a quick death makes the game easier for the killer. The one thing the emblem system rewards is downing the unhooked, as killers are penalized for survivors healing.
A full redesign of the game would be needed to fix that.
BHVR absolutely rewards this play style, 100%. They are not punished, or it wouldn't be a go-to play style at Red Ranks. You would like to think it's not rewarding, but it is. And the game goes a step further and even ENCOURAGES this behavior by inputting challenges like the one where Killers need to death hook everyone in the basement.
"Survivors reward camping by unhooking in a killers face before giving the killer a chance to leave"....if a killer is CAMPING, they aren't leaving. This doesn't make sense. I think you're trying to say that it's a survivor's "fault" that face camping can be viable because they feed the killer. Which has its merits as an argument. But, this happens because a camping killer is ruining everyone's match. And aside from just being empathetic humans who want everyone to get a chance to play the game, survivors need off-hooks, heals, chase, bold, etc. to pip and gain points. Killers can gain points A LOT quicker doing less because their pts are not shared.
An unfed, face camping killer is probably the least rewarded of them all, but still racks up decent BP and depending on how their post-kill game progresses will at least safety PIP. If they couple this with NOED, they will very likely get more than one kill.
And facecamping is just one of these considerations. A Killer who doesn't face camp, but proxy camps to return to every hook and tunnel the off-hooked survivor is HEAVILY rewarded for this behavior. Assuming people don't kill themselves on hook because this is no fun at all, the Killer amasses tons of points for finding, hitting, re-hooking, and ultimately sacrificing survivors...and can do so pretty quickly. Couple proxying, which often allows you to return to the hook for the off-hook animation and hit the off-hooker, with slugging the off-hooked survivor and downing the un-hooker, and the game slows down immensely and now you have two opportunities to tunnel/down your next two survivors. Lather, rinse, repeat...this tactic is not difficult and highly rewarded...which is why THIS is more frequently seen in Red Ranks than something like an insidious camping Bubba.
And because all of these tactics are allowed AND provide killers with decent BP/pips, they are rampant in the game. Thus, again, survivors - especially solos - don't have much option to vary perks and instead need to be mindful that these are consistently used play styles that require specific counter perks for the best probability of survival.
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@SpiritLover1133 said:
if you want to counter spirit, simply, don’t breath.
lol jk... spirit is all about guessing and mind-gaming. If you can successfully evade her while shes phasing then you got an extra 10 seconds chase. You only need to loop her 40 seconds to have 3 gen popped.
"you only need to loop her for 40 seconds to have 3 gens popped"
...your math is questionable. Unless gen speed got a serious overnight buff I dont know about.
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@infinity_on_switch said:
Saying she is unfun to play against is subjective. Me and my girlfriend are casual players and spirit jump scares the crap out of her. We find it fun and helps with the horror aspect of the game.
Coming from the guy with a Rancor avatar. 😂 Not biased at all.
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Bad matchmaking system. The same as every other time this happens. 😂
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@Freesham said:
Let's say it's around the mid game, 2-3 gens left. A survivor gets unhooked but you can't find the unhooker, only the injured unhookee. When you down them, do you just slug and go look for more survivors, or pick them up and tank the DS if they have it so you don't have to worry about it anymore?
I'm thinking slugging would be better if you don't have time to hook and instead need to chase survivors of generators. What do you guys think?
I would slug, not to avoid DS, just to incapacitate them while I find someone else. Then I don't have to worry about them doing a gen, but they get a chance to get picked up and back in the game without an immediate rehook...which coincidentally takes someone else off a gen to get them up. This is why I don't ever deal with DS.
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@Shocktober said:
There are way more toxic survivors than killers. I don't consider camping / tunneling / mori's toxic, so that doesn't count. It is once in a blue moon I will see a killer cussing and raging in chat. I will see survivors rage every few games.
You're welcome to your opinion, as everyone is, but eliminating people's ability to play the game and tanking their rank while doing so is toxic. If survivors could use their combined force to tie up the Killer and taser the entity from helping them escape for an entire match so that they could just do gens and leave with no other effort, Killers would find this incredibly toxic. LOL rightfully so. There is a time and place for most play styles, but just ruining someone's match out of the gate is a toxic way to approach this game as Killer.
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@venom12784 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1264548#Comment_1264548
Really I have gotten way more toxic messages from survivors than I have from killers . A killer does something a survivor doesn't like he is deemed toxic .
Survivors can body block hooks, blind a killer over and over again, t bag at every palet, click flash light , t bag at the exit gates, and my personal favorite the end game chat / messages saying how v yeah the killer was because he did something the survivor didn't like.
Messages - absolutely. For starters, there are 4 survivors to every 1 killer, so statistically, from a post-game chat standpoint, survivors are literally 4x more likely to be toxic. LOL But there is a reason for this. The level of toxicity I see from survivors in post-game chat when I AM a survivor also vs. the level of toxicity in chat I see when I play Killer is vastly different. I almost never get hate chat as Killer. But I see survivors in post-game upset all the damn time. Why? Because Killers IN-GAME behavior breeds toxicity that survivors have no recourse against UNTIL post-game chat.
In-game, Killers have MUCH MORE opportunity to be toxic in a way that ACTUALLY EFFECTS the games outcome. For example: facecamping someone ruins their entire match, especially if its the first person hooked. They get zero points. There is nothing they can do to change their circumstance once hooked. They will depip. They will spend less time in the match itself than they did in the lobby. Regardless of the fact that this is allowed, that doesn't mean it isn't toxic. And not only does it ruin the match for that one person, it ruins it for all four survivors with the fact that it A) sucks all the fun out of the game and B) tanks everyone's emblems, even if they escape. So in this instance, in game there is nothing survivors can do to combat this toxicity or relieve this frustration. The only point at which THEY can do anything is post-game chat. Hense why it is so spicy.
A survivor teabagging or clicking a flashlight at you might get in your head and annoy you, but it doesn't quite literally ruin your match or end it quicker than it took you to get through a lobby wait. And Killers employ that type of play style almost every single match.
Lets be real, body blocking hooks is more of a detriment these days than a help. It simply allows the killer to injure survivors while going to one of several close hooks, since hook changes and map changes have made wiggling almost an impossibility without multiple body blocks...which rarely happen. Teabagging at the exit gate is probably the most common thing I see from survivors when I play either side and I think it's the dumbest thing. There is nothing cool or edgy about standing on the exit like being insulting, when you know there is no risk. You aren't confident for doing so, you're just a pussy. LOL I don't do this as a survivor, I dont care about this as a Killer. Its as bad as people who make an insulting comment in chat and then immediately leave because they can dish it out but they can't take it. But again, it doesn't effect the actual outcome of the game. That person would have escaped either way.
You also have the fact that Killers have in-match retribution. Survivors do not...teabagging at the exit gate is probably as close to in-match retribution as a survivor gets. If a Killer is face camping or tunneling you...what retribution do you have? Not much except expressing your frustration in post-game chat. If a survivor is teabagging and flashlighting you, you can literally murder them in game. LOL Killers have a much better opportunity to relieve their in-match frustration than survivors do. Especially against solo teams.
IMO, toxicity is pretty equal in quantity but only one side truly effects the outcome for other players in the majority of cases. There are simply more camp/tunnel Killers than SWAT teams. It just occurs differently inside/outside of the match. Killers are more toxic inside a match, survivors are more toxic outside of a match.
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@Feiten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1263623#Comment_1263623
Really a survivor main response to an open ended post. I'm not taking sides im saying killers have more build varieties then survivors use. You ether have a camping killer or one who hooks u and walks away, 50/50 but survivors have the same build over and over again 10/90 in R1.
I see thrilling tremors used, endurance, i just always see different killer builds. But survivors seem to just build for being tunneled. Sad, isn't it?
One of the beat survivors I know runs Windows of Opportunity. Thats nice to see.
What is sad is that Survivors HAVE to carry the same build because regardless of the very different Killers abilities and perks, every killer plays the same. The vast majority of killers in this game camp, tunnel, or slug. Not "50%", almost every single match this play style comes into play. Which is why in order to level the playing field against this inevitable game play, that doesn't require a specific killer or perk set to execute, survivors have to bring the same boring ######### perks every time.
You think survivors don't WANT to carry other perks? Sure we do. But we also want to escape or not see our teammates die because a Killer has a hard-on for them. Every time I change out a typical meta perk for something else...something fun that would allow me to change up my play style or try a new tactic...I am made to instantly regret it because inevitably the killer plays exactly as expected and I'm left without a perk to combat it.
Killers have the luxury of being able to add more variety because all killers are different, with different strengths and abilities, before you even add on unique perks. All survivors are the same.
So, sure, it is sad. But you're never gonna stop Killers from camping/tunneling/slugging as long as BHVR continues to reward it...so you're never going to see the majority of survivors gravitate to more unique perks. I have one available perk slot that I change around, depending on how the day is going. Even then, it just rotates between Unbreakable or Kindered. *yay variety* 🙄
The only alleviation of this is when you play SWF, because you don't need 4 of every meta perk. But I play solo. So my build is pretty much locked in to try and give me and my teammates the best chance against the games most unfun and rampant play style.
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This does not excite me as much as other options that have been called out. :/
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@NeaMainNON_TOXIC3 said:
Toxicity is on both sides. I don't care what you say. Killers and survivors can be toxic. For example my last game. I was sandbagged by a Zarina multiple times and saved in front of the killer with no borrowed time by her. The Killer tunneled and face camped. There were 4 gens left. I don't know why he felt the need to secure a kill at 4 gens.
So if anyone ever tells you only side is toxic. They, themselves, might be a toxic person (in the game).
But to your point, yes, both sides can be - and are - toxic.
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I wish people wouldn't play this game like their enjoyment is the only enjoyment that matters.
Regardless of what side I am playing, I play cognitive to the enjoyment of my team members and my opponent(s). If people actually treated others in a match how they would want to be treated in the same situation, this would be a much more fun and enjoyable game for everyone.
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@matchmakingworksfine said:
Read the entire post before commenting.
Ive been seeing many people on the forums discussing ds being confirmed not to be anti tunnel and just have to say. OK? Ds not being anti tunnel doesnt address any of the problems the perk has when it comes to its imbalance of lockers and gens. A survivor can hop into a locker with ds, head on, and inner strength and end your career. If enduring still counted for all of these stuns I would be perfectly fine with this. I'm not trying to get a nerf to ds. It's great for solo players who get terrorized in this game. I'm just saying something as simple as giving enduring a slight effect on it would even out the playing field alot more. that way both sides would be happy with the change. That way survivors can keep their perk and killers aren't hit with 2 huge stuns in a row.
Edit thanks to @Kebek if it weren't for this comment I would've never made this post.
These are two different issues.
People are addressing the fact that DS was never meant to be exclusively an anti-tunnel perk because that is the go-to argument for why it should be gutted. Because it works, even if you aren't tunneled. Which it is supposed to. So clarifying this is in defense of those trying to gut it solely on the basis that they THINK it's an anti-tunnel perk and it performs beyond just basic tunneling.
The fact that people find the perk to be problematic in a multitude of ways is just a secondary conversation that, sure, should be had.
I don't think every perk needs to have a counter for other perks/abilities. For example: it sucks that borrowed time doesn't work against silent killers or freddy in the dream state, but I dont see any threads in this forum about changing BT to account for these disparities. Just like not every map should be changed to accommodate every Killer/survivors, even though some are particularly good/bad for a specific Killer or more killer/survivor sided. Luck of the draw is some of what makes this game exciting, albeit also frustrating.
That said, I wouldn't care if Enduring lowers DS stun time, but it would need to revert back to the 1.2.1 version where there is a secondary stun reduction percentage for "perk" stuns...which was 20%. Meaning a 5 second stun would be 4. And a separate stun duration for palette stuns. Otherwise it would no longer be a perk aimed at reducing palette stuns, but an anti-DS perk. LOL
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1263639#Comment_1263639
That's what a lot of these killers want...
LOL well, that is very true. 😂
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1263659#Comment_1263659
I have very little tolerance for stupidity and anyone who makes the dumbest ######### assumption from evidence right there in their ######### face! Since you wanna act stupid go back and watch the clip again and than read my comment and look at your comment. Nowhere in my comment does it say anything about me wanting to tunnel anyone!
I'm sorry to be rude, but idkhtf you came up with that logic
A) You aren't sorry to be rude, you are clearly trying to be a flaming, condescending #########. Which is fine. You got out played and displayed it for everyone to see. I can see how that would make you a salty #########.
B) I didn't say you WANTED to tunnel anyone, I said you DID tunnel. I'm not going to argue your intent, I'm stating what is on the video. That's how freshly off-hooked people get away with BT. You could have lunged the Jane. You could have slugged the Yui. You could have pursued the injured Jane instead of the BT Feng. You could have made a number of plays that would have rendered you a much better result, yet you're mad because you grabbed someone who had the forethought to bring two perks to combat that exact situation and they were more effective.
There is nothing wrong with DS or its functionality. The perk itself literally says, "There's nothing to be scared of. - Laurie Strode"...survivors are SUPPOSED to be bold while it's active and they can be rewarded for using it in such a way.