LALYTHIA
LALYTHIA
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@Kagari_Leha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1176982#Comment_1176982
Having perks to counter playstyles is pretty bad in my opinion tho, both as a mechanic and in the community, because if we follow this logic
Killers tunnel to make it not fun : ok then put DS on
Slugging is meta now : ok let's put that Unbreakable
NOED every last 5 games : alright here's Small Game / Detective's Hunch
Maybe we'll get a camper : then I take Kindred
Here, here's your "counter" build. It's just stupid, nobody wants to play with the 4 same perks all the time it's so boring, just in case the guy in front of you is sweaty, especially that it doesnt make your teammates any more prepared or better.
Having to use perks to get out of situations where the killer is untouchable is quite the cheap fix. Just as having to use perks as a killer to counter the moments the survivors are untouchable is a cheap fix (thinking about all the clown mains out there)
Oh, I absolutely agree that its utter bullshit that you should have to carry a full line of perks to counter toxic, unsportsmanlike game play, but the developers and moderators at Behavior have made it abundantly clear that they have no intention of implementing anything to deter or stop that behavior...so perks are really the next best option. Since they won't address the core reason for rampant DCing (AKA Killers playing like #########) then as a survivor you better hope they keep counter perks. ;) But I'm with you...it would be nice to play different/fun/quirky builds...it's just not possible to have that much fun in DBD anymore because of the level of disregard for other's experience.
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@Brucecastro81 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1177023#Comment_1177023
Its more FUN to the survivor, not better. and that is happening, the devs want to do it since everyone asked for it. LOL YOU DON'T SHARE MY OPINION
...and I still disagree with you. I am a survivor most of the time, and I assure you that it's not "more fun". I also play killer, and the map size is never an issue. Killers do complain to devs the loudest, as is evident by a lot of the changes DBD has implemented in the last year and just in general in my experience so far here and in DBD Facebook groups. But I doubt this will happen. At least not to existing maps. Especially if DBD wants to retain its survivor base. :)
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@Brucecastro81 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1177008#Comment_1177008
ofc not. In the new map I think its impossible to a gen pop before you can get there (think so), it does change a lot, its even more fun to the survivor since he can be chases by the killer more often
I disagree with you. It is also a change that would only benefit killers in having overall less ground to cover and everything closer together. I dont see a single advantage for survivors in this scenario. Why would Behavior implement that change simply so that killers who want to walk through the middle of the map to get to the furthest gen right out of the gate can do so before that gen pops, IF multiple survivors are on it. That's a very specific and odd scenario to cater to in such a drastic way. I dont see that happening. LOL
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@hex_genrush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1175719#Comment_1175719
Nah, you still get hit with ds even if you didn’t tunnel 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's not very likely. I run DS on my main 2 survivors and I can probably count on one hand the number of times a Killer found me after an off hook, within 60 seconds, that wasn't them tunneling me off the hook. So, while it CAN happen that you just come across the same person by accident...it's not the most likely scenario. I also never get hit with DS when I play killer. If I come across the last person I hooked within 60 seconds of them being off hooked, I just leave them alone. I am a decent killer; I dont need to down them again before they have an opportunity to get back in the game in order to PIP or 4k by the end of the game. 🤷
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@Brucecastro81 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1175717#Comment_1175717
If you spawn in a corner in ormond and there's 2 survs doing the gen in the other side of the map you litteraly can't go there before it gets done. Just reduce them. If you didn't know that map sizes are a problem, I don't know if you're even playing DBD
I have over 1,600 hours played in DBD. LOL - I simply don't see how map sizes are a problem. Regardless of where you spawn on a map, gens will always pop in the beginning of the match. You cannot chase 4 survivors at a time. So whether 2 survivors on a gen are across the map or across the street, you will have a survivor in closer proximity to you to pursue - unless rare offerings are used - and while doing so a gen will likely pop. That's the reality of the game. Making maps smaller would create an imbalance in other aspects of the game.
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@Kagari_Leha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1176797#Comment_1176797
So NOED is only fair when the team is coordinating ? what about the solo queue survivors that did they part but the rest of the team shrugged it off and got downed because of it ?
As a solo, I just assume my team isn't cleansing and look for as many totems as I can as I traverse the map. Perhaps even running small game if I've had a few matches where my team didnt do enough. Until ALL survivors take responsibility for cleansing and make intelligent decisions, like not starting end-game until NOED is cleansed if someone is downed...it's always harder to be a solo amongst randoms than a SWF...that's the reality in all aspects of the game and it has to be to provide killers with balance.
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@Seiko300 - I think we just disagree on what "counterable" means. IMO, NOED and DS have very clear, very easy to execute counters that make them balanced (to me). They are both high risk/high reward perks. And as a survivor main, I find it very easy to call when a killer has NOED.
As for DS - no, most killers do tunnel, especially now that there is no fear of DCing for this type of game play, making DS more essential than ever for survivors who don't want to be tunneled to death. In my experience, when I've addressed hardcore tunneling with killers, their opinion is that "there's a perk to counter that" or the catch-all "gitgud". Since there is no way to "gitgud" about being hard tunneled off a hook, the latter is the only option survivors have when a killer is particularly lazy and camps or proxies the hooks to hit injured players as they're freshly off-hooked. Until game play that prohibits players from getting an opportunity to play the game is addressed, this perk will remain a fixture for the survivor community.
I do agree that these perks don't require any particular skill, but neither does quite a bit of the game play that's rampant these days. At least DS requires a skillcheck and as we saw from the Hex: Ruin changes, those aren't everyone's friend. 😂
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After the great toolbox nerf of 2020, nothing. I only bring stuff out.
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@Seiko300 said:
I feel like this is the same situation with Hex: Ruin, it may be super powerful a real game changer that turns the tides of games, and NOBODY (killers) wants to see it changed. At the same time though, it is absolutely unfun and cheap for survivors, and perks that are unfun or cheap for either side are typically nerfed or rework, even massively wide spread used perks like Hex: Ruin, a perk which almost everyone ran and the devs knew they would see resistance for changing. Hex: Ruin was used way more often than Noed was or even is now (Noed usage has gone up since Ruin rework)
So what would stop the devs from nerfing or reworking Noed? Not much imo, since it's one of the main controversial / problem perks that are left in the wake of the Ruin rework. Now when people read this they might think "Bruh, so you're telling me all the problem perks are killer perks!? #########??" and that is not what I'm saying at all. The change to Ruin is the turn of a new decade (literally) where in all likelihood all problem perks will see some changes. This means inevtiably, Noed, but at the same time it also means DS which will probably see a second change on top of the original because it is also a controversial / problem perk.
Realistically the devs could rework any perk they want. Its their game. But the difference between Hex: Ruin and NOED is that Ruin was a huge barrier for new players and it impeded you from the very beginning of the match. Yes, it's still cleansible like NOED, but a ruin that you can't find and/or is accompanied by a tenacious killer is pretty swift death for new or less skilled players. I, personally, wasn't bothered by Ruin, but I see why it created an unbalanced barrier for new, random survivor groups.
NOED does feel like a crutch perk when it pops and you're on the survivor end, especially because it seems to be used by less skilled killers in a lot of cases, so you go the entire match winning chases and popping gens just to get insta-downed and face camped in end-game. [RIP] But unlike ruin, you have an entire match to eliminate it before it ever comes into play without it effecting your ability to do your objectives in order to escape. It's highly counterable if the group just makes an effort to cleanse. DS is very similar to NOED in that regard - avoiding DS is incredibly easy - don't tunnel. I like that NOED and DS are high risk/high reward. On both, you chance the opposite side making them obsolete...but in the right situation, they can turn the tide of a game. That's kind of exciting.
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@hex_genrush said:
Laurie because ds is annoying
Don't tunnel. Problem solved. 😂
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I have so many questions...
@DarkHunter99 - why would there need to be a "fix" on gen speed? And how?
@Brucecastro81 - why would there need to be a "fix" on map size? And how?
@JawsIsTheNextKiller - What is a 'second chance' perk? And why does it need nerfed?
LOL ya'll want to fix problems I didn't even know existed. 😂
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I am a survivor main, and a survivor advocate. I think NOED is fair because it's very counterable. You have an entire match to have 4 people locate 5 totems. I do find in most matches that randoms don't pay much attention to totems, and sometimes you get that impossible placement that you just cant find, but I always play dbd with at least one other person and we make a concerted effort to cleanse and communicate how many we've found/seen in most matches. Usually at least one of us brings small game, just in case. Totem perks are only strong if you allow them to stay on the map. I also can call whether or not a killer has NOED most of the time, long before end game. There is a 'type'. So from basic perk deduction and behavior you can tell how much effort you need to put into cleansing.
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The DC penalty fails to address the wider spread issue of toxicity in the game. DC'ing is just a symptom of the disease. Addressing DCing doesn't eliminate the disease, it just poorly treats one of the symptoms in a manner that causes other side effects.
People DC for a reason. While I agree, there are cases where that reason is incredibly invalid (for example, they don't like a specific killer or map), as someone who has thousands of hours in this game, and have played both sides of the fence, the majority of the time I've experienced people DCing, it is because the game play by either the killer or their fellow teammates was atrocious and purposefully lacking any sense of sportsmanship.
People who play that way are what need to be addressed. Not the people trying to escape that behavior. I have yet to encounter another MMO that penalizes players for leaving a match...and I have played a lot of major MMOs. Additionally, people were already penalized for leaving matches in the form of massive PIP loss. Again, more 'punishment' than any other game I've ever encountered...where you not only lose your progress in that particular match, you regress.
The number of times I've had people purposely DC on me for my gameplay is incredibly low, even when DC's were reportedly rampant. Why? Because I play by objective and am actively mindful of other people's experience.
I would not be against a DC ban penalty on people who leave a match within the first few minutes, as those are likely the people leaving people they don't like the killer or the map. But simply locking people into a match with someone hellbent on playing toxically is promoting abusive, unsportsmanlike behavior. In my experience, since the ban there has been an increase in toxic, unenjoyable matches because people who play like sociopaths know there is no escape, unless you - as the victim of their abuse - want to accept a penalty and a loss of points/pips.
DBD needs to find a way to provide balance. To penalize actual in-game behavior that causes the majority of DC's that occurred/occur. I also think there are a number of other things that could be implemented that would help stave off DCing altogether:
- Allow ALL players to see ALL the nameplates of the players in the pre-match lobby (survivor AND killer), since name changing between matches is uncommon and this would be a first step to avoiding someone you encountered and didn't enjoy.
- Implement a block system. Every other MMO I've played allows you to block/avoid players you don't enjoy. Instituting a block system that would ensure you're not matched with someone would go a long way - knowing you'd never have to endure that person again.
- Shorten the time increments of the DC bans and institute a shorter ban cap so that players who feel it absolutely necessary due to another player's unsportsmanlike conduct have an out that doesn't ruin their night and so that accidental DC's have less of a negative effect.
Almost everyone who plays DBD paid for the game. I, personally, have paid for the game, the DLCs, many skins, and purchased the game for friends (albeit not recently because it's become less enjoyable). As a paid user of the game, your expectation of enjoyment is valid and your expectation that other players will be respectful of your time and your game is reasonable. DCing can be unenjoyable, but ignoring the fact that rampant DC's were a symptom of even less enjoyable game play is a mistake. This is not a simple issue and it demands a more holistic response from the devs.