LALYTHIA
LALYTHIA
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@MrPenguin said:
yes this is the obvious choice, don't take the bait. You can't blame the killer for wanting the 4k and trying to get it the same way you can't blame a survivor for seeing bait and not going for it.
The main reason (to my understanding) killer slug the 2nd to last is because hatch exist.
It really sucks when you are destroying a survivor team, or worse, are barely coming out on top, just for the last survivor to be like "lol, nope free escape, screw you". Remove hatch and put EGC in its place and maybe it will change.
As a killer, you have a much easier time finding hatch than survivor - you can walk freely around the map and your character is faster. Also, if you and the survivor find the hatch at the same time, merely standing close enough to it can stop the survivor from being able to get in...and because of dedicated servers, you can close it before their jump animation. If a survivor finds and escapes through the hatch - they deserve to get it. EGC is already way more advantageous for killers than survivors in this scenario.
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@Bunnie said:
If a killer is slugging for a 4k and there's two of us and the killer is using you as bait I'll try my hardest to get to you up but I'm no longer going to sacrifice myself to do it. You'll just have to bleed out. Sorry but it's gotten out of hand. It's like every game. The skills of the killers have significantly fallen to ######### (not all) and I won't be practicing altruism as much if they're using you to get to me. At least one of us can win. Shout out to the survivors who refuse to let themselves be used as bait.
As a survivor main, I fully respect this. I'll heal up and crawl away from the other person. There is no reason two people should have to die. Altruism is a choice, but not always the best strategy. You are right...it is better one person escape than no one escape.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180821#Comment_1180821
Breakable walls, end game collapse, Undetectable status effect, prestige clothing brightened, survivors making loud screams when they fall from a height, Balanced Landing nerfed, Freddy and Doctor buffed, dedicated servers, loss of add ons, etc. etc. etc.
EGC is a huge one.
With that - hatch changes which considerably favor killers. 🍺
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You do realize that's more perks than you can have in a match, right?
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180610#Comment_1180610
Just in case this is helpful, the best tiles for saloon are the central building obviously, as well as the balconies on the little buildings near the generators at the one end of the street. The killer has to go up the stairs to make a play at the vault and once they do you can jump down and pretty much lose them guaranteed. Hangman's scaffold can also present some mind games as well since there is lockers underneath it.
So the big issue with Ormond is as you said, a really bad layout, but more importantly, it's like a reverse of Saloon, EVERY pallet is absurdly safe, with many offering no counter-play whatsoever. Ormond may also not be as huge as Disturbed Ward or Rotten Fields but it's awkward layout makes it worse in some ways, specifically because if the central generator gets completed setting up a 3-gen is impossible.
No one is saying they want killers to be optimal on every map, but it would be nice if all killers were at least viable. Putting Clown on Disturbed Ward or Bubba on Ormond is pretty much cruelty at this point.
And yeah killers who use a map offering are going to likely have a setup that takes advantage of it. It's the same idea as when survivors use a Haddonfield offering, you know at least that person has balanced landing.
TBH, I wouldn't mind if Ormond got a rework. I keep seeing people say its the map size, but I think you are right, its the layout. I just dont agree with the sentiment that all maps need to be smaller. If Ormond stayed the same and the size was reduced, it would just be even more awkward. LOL Maybe they should have done a smaller "office" for check-in and a couple cabins instead of a giant lodge building. If this map left the game, I would not shed a tear. LOL
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@VikingWilson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180731#Comment_1180731
Other than desperately needed changes to toolboxes, what has really changed for survivors? A time limit on DS and.....?
Have you played this game for a year??
Self care was nerfed.
DS was nerfed.
Leader was nerfed.
Sabotage was nerfed (the action, not the perk).
Med kit addons were nerfed.
Toolboxes and their addons were nerfed.
Petrified oak, nerfed.
Windows were removed.
Loops were closed.
Palette numbers were reduced.
The number of unsafe palettes has increased.
Totems have been moved and better hidden.
The number of hooks was increased.
The distance between hooks was decreased.
Hook re-spawn rate has drastically increased.
Newer maps are smaller.
Some killers have received speed increases.
Some killers had all detraction removed from their abilities (Hag).
...the list goes on.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180728#Comment_1180728
It is, but what more can the developers do? If they remove SWF, the game will decline and stagnate. Being able to survive with friends is a huge draw in this game. People will always find a way to communicate in this game. Balancing the game around that is the best they can do, even if its not close to being at that stage yet.
As long as there are random groups with no comms, it never will be 'at that stage'. The only way that could happen without losing the larger part of their survivor base - random groups - would be to develop in-game comms for survivors and then tune the game as though all matches are SWF. Otherwise solo queues will just get railroaded and stop playing.
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@VikingWilson said:
And it keeps getting easier.
Except in the last 12 months the vast majority of patch changes have been in killer's favor, not survivors. What, Ruin was your favorite perk?
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I use it, especially when I play solo because random survivors like to unhook and run off into the sunset. LOL
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It's already pretty easy to tell if a group is SWF in a pre-game lobby. For starters, they tend to all pop in at the same time. Often they have kitchy, matchy names. They all spawn in with a coordinated set of tools. God forbid all playing the same character or the same skin (so cute). If there's a streamer or two. LOL Survivors don't get to see ANYTHING in pre-game lobby about their opponent. I don't think killers need the added opportunity to dodge SWF for easier matches. They can already adjust their perks or dodge a match by what they see in terms of characters and tools.
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@Kate_Main_01 said:
*Please do not turn this thread into a flame war or complaining about gen speeds - would love to see a thread stay on topic. Thanks and happy gaming! <3*
I just played a game as Killer against two very good, challenging, and fun Survivors. I genuinely enjoyed chasing them and saw some very smart plays on their part. The other two? One AFK'd the entire game while the other either lost connection or immediately DC'd when loading in to Autohaven. I actually felt really bad that two skilled players were dealt a bad hand and had absolutely no chance of escaping.
As a Killer you get a gift of points when someone abandons the game as well as the advantage of having one less person on gens/unhooking Survivors/leading you on chases, etc.
As a Survivor? You get a gift of points (which are significantly less than what you get from a hook 2 struggle that lasts awhile) and... The disadvantage of having one less person on gens/unhooking Survivors/leading the Killer on chases. The game becomes so much more difficult.
I feel like anyone who remained in the game, Survivor or Killer, should not be punished. Perhaps the Survivors should get an instant gen to better balance the game. Or are there any other ideas from the community? Would love to hear from Survivors and Killers alike.
"I actually felt really bad that two skilled players were dealt a bad hand and had absolutely no chance of escaping."
Sure they do. At that point, you - as the killer - have control over whether they have a chance at escaping or not. In instances like this, I just treat them like I would want to be treated if I spawned into an impromptu 2v1. I just make a conscious choice not to kill them. I still pursue them like normal. I still hook them both twice. I still kick their gens. I just don't shrug my shoulders and sweat on them anyway. If you are chill with people, you can engage in fun chases and wrack up points that save everyone's game from being a depip or meager BP. There's no reason this scenario should require developer intervention, if people just treated eachother better.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180616#Comment_1180616
Those are pretty much my only reasons as well. Namely #2.
I try not to tunnel if at all possible but if my hand if either forced because it's end game and I don't have the luxury to be picky, sorry champ, I'm taking you down. If they're being an jerkface, I also may consider tunneling them pending how the game is going.
Samesies. If I see a fellow survivor being a douche canoe, I do not feel bad when they get themselves murdered. Sportsmanship goes two ways, for sure.
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@elvangulley said:
Noed is about it and survivors are hell bent on getting it nerfed
Even in the posts in this very forum, the consensus between killers and survivors is that NOED is easily counterable and doesn't need to be removed.
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1) The last gen has popped.
2) The survivor was an #########.
End of reasons.
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/140134/gen-update-idea
So the thing is, 3 on a generator is actually inefficient for survivors due to the slowdown penalty unless they are running prove thyself. I would rather have three survivors one one gen with 6 gens at 0 then survivors spreading out and progressing 3-4 generator simultaneously.
The issue as you even mentioned is map size, particularly the worst offenders like Ormond, Rotten Fields, Disturbed Ward, and the fact that places like Groaning Storehouse or Ironworks can get have basically very safe infinite depending on window spawns.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1180533#Comment_1180533
The new maps are being complained about by survivors, which is customary until survivors learn the tiles and realize they're not quite as "killer sided" as they thought. Saloon is not nearly as bad as survivor are claiming, it's that many of them don't know the major strengths of the map for survivors.
I will concede Hawkins is just a death sentence, every time I get that map as a killer I can't help but feel a little guilty. And your point still doesn't account for the fact that absolutely horrid maps like Rotten Fields, Disturbed Ward, and Ormond still exist in their current ridiculous forms.
If ALL maps were redone to be more balanced, I don't think generators need any fixing at all quite frankly. But as of right now there is only 2-3 killers who are viable on every map, and that's a problem.
I have only gotten the new map a handful of times. I agree with you, it's just a learning curve. I don't expect to do as well there because I don't have as much experience. My only gripe with smaller maps, especially as an often solo survivor, is that it makes EGC a death sentence in most cases, regardless of how well you play(ed).
You keep mentioning Ormond...it is SMALLER than most classic maps. It's just awkwardly laid out. All of these maps have killers who do better/worse on them. Not EVERY killer will be optimal on EVERY map...that is why killers who launch with a map tend to have an advantage on it. The same as not EVERY map is optimal for survivors. And devs have already removed windows and reduced the number of palettes on maps.
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@VikingWilson said:
Maps desperately need reworks, they are just so heavily survivor-sided anymore.
HOW? Devs have taken out windows/loops and reduced the number of palettes on maps. It really has more to do with which map you get vs. which killer you're playing. Just like not all are good for survivors, no all are good for every killer either.
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@Mediva said:
There is literally no reason for it to be 4 minutes long. The only thing a bleedout timer does, is give the killer 4 minutes of finding the last survivor without him having an out. It literally is the only way killers use the bleedouttimer. its just slug, find last survivor for the 4k. And I seriously hate being on the floor and do nothing for 4 minutes. You wont get picked up, you cant do nothing. Its stupid. 2 minutes is more then enough time for a bleedout timer.
Right now, all the sweaty killers use it to get the 4k. And there is literally no need for it to be 4 minutes. If i will be down for the whole 4 minutes, then please kill me. Cause thats not a game i wanna be in. Please lower the time. Even being on the hook is only 2 minutes. So pleas explain to me why we have to be doing nothing on the floor for 4 minutes straight. Its boring as hell a slug game.
Yeah, I wouldn't want the bleed out timer lowered. Killers who slug throughout a match cause incremental bleed out...it would make it easier for them to slug to death throughout the match. I personally run unbreakable a lot of the time now, because killer behavior is toxic AF rn and you HAVE to. It sucks to HAVE to run perks because they counter a specific, unsavory play style vs. being able to pick fun perks, but that is DBD for you.
I wouldn't listen to the notion that killers MUST slug to get a 4k to ensure a PIP. That's a pathetic excuse by killers who enjoy unsportsmanlike game play. If you get all 4 survivors sacrificed and you don't PIP, you've done something terribly wrong with the rest of your objectives.
I also like having plenty of time to crawl off and die with dignity when being slugged by an idiot with a 4k hardon. I get at least a little enjoyment out of them not getting a last hook, despite their best effort.
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I wouldn't mind more 2-sided gens. This is one of the only suggestions I've seen that doesn't cuck solo survivors and would split up SWF. I can only think of one killer where this would present an issue for survivors. And I don't often end up doing gens with more than one other person. But maps don't need to be smaller. Most of the newer maps are smaller than classic maps and are still the ones being complained about.
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I agree with @ggezbaby...a gen or two will always pop in the beginning of a match because you can't chase all the survivors at once. But once you start hooking people, gen progression gets slower, especially in a group of random survivors. Also, if you've brought perks that cause inefficiency and regression.
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@ZaKzan said:
One of the major reasons why killer is so imbalanced and weak is because of lack of a clear defined objective. Devs have stated that they supposedly try to balance for 2ks, but it's very easy to depip even with a 3k as shown below
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/303/BQ4IPBOJKYJN.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/801/F8Q0O42OVC38.jpg
If survivors' main objective is to do gens and escape and those award the most points and are the easiest way to pip, why is killing survivors not the main objective of the killer since the point system and the pip system does not reflect that?
Now you may bring up the point of hooking players and people suiciding on hook / dying on 1 hook, but that's the thing, the supposed point of the killer is to kill, and the devs have stated they're aiming for a 2k average, the point system and the pip system for killers does not reflect this at all.
Judging by the way the point system is set up for killer currently, the current objective for killers is to chase survivors, not kill them. I believe this is the main issue killers have, the devs have told the community that the objective of the killer is to kill, but they have balanced the game around the killer chasing survivors, not killing them.
TBH, from the pts you showed it looks like you killed at least two people fairly quickly into the match (8k and 6k is pretty low) without much gen pressure or chase. Your own pts also reflect this idea too. I am assuming you probably killed them first hook because otherwise at least Devout would be more than silver due to the combination of hooks/sacrifices. If you only focus killing people as quickly as possible and by any means necessary, this will be the result. The game is meant to have off-hooks (its how survivors gain significant pts and what allows killers to be able to re-hook and gain their own pts). You are meant to pressure people off gens and destruct generators, palettes, etc. You are meant to chase people. Those things are what offer pts and objective completion for boths sides of the fence.
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All outfits come in pieces so you can mix and match.
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Nah fam.
Mori's are daily pts. And keys counter EGC for solos. #necessaryitems
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@Moox said:
It usually does not last over a minute once activated and it can be disabled beforehand so I would say it is fairly balanced. To be honest, I don't understand why people get so agitated if the perk is used... Some killers have the ability to instantly down survivors with their ability or add ons anyways.
I think it triggers people because it tends to be used by less skilled killers. So you run an entire match dodging and losing the killer, popping gens left and right, feeling all good about it and then get insta-downed. LOL It feelsbadman. But, as irritating as that can feel, it's still true that it's completely counterable and as a survivor you really can't be mad at anyone but yourself. It does suck as a solo survivor if you've put in a concerted effort and gotten 3/5 totems and then you're the one whose downed and your teammates open a door and leave because their cursory search for the totem was unsuccessful and they don't want to die to the killer or EGC. Bad teammates also make it more annoying. LOL
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@VikingWilson said:
It's just entitled survivors whining about NOED because they're neglecting bones. Y'all crying killed Ruin and early game, don't take away late/end game, too.
...literally every survivor but the OP in this thread thinks its fair. 😂 Also "y'all" (in reference to killers) have cried so much, numerous perks, tools, offerings, and maps have been changed over the last 12 months to your benefit. Maybe don't throw stones in your glass house. 😂
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179515#Comment_1179515
Maybe this page can help you. That's where I got the names of all the maps: https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Realms
Wrecker's Yard is the Autoheaven map with no distinct landmark that the other maps don't have, and the killer shack with the basement is always in the middle of the map.
oOoO not that one 😂 Middle map basement is not my first choice. LOL I am talking about Gas Heaven apparently. 😁
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179649#Comment_1179649
Yeah your'e just angry and ranting so not worth my time.
Also if you really "live" a terrible game, you should get a life
Toodles.
🤣🤣🤣 Bye Felicia.
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PS: While I didn't watch your video because your comment was irrelevant to me, having one youtube video of someone having a different unique experience does not negate what happens the majority of the time, every day.
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1179608#Comment_1179608
Objectively wrong, and can be disproved by the video linked in this very thread.
Look, based on your assumptions, I'm going to assume you're a new player, so I'm going to try and be even handed about this, but a lot of what you are saying is just objectively incorrect.
Camping, assuming the other survivors aren't potatoes, will result in generators getting done with no pressure from the killer, meaning the survivors can literally knock out three at once in 80 seconds total if they are smart. As the video in this thread shows, by the time Adam was even to his struggle phase they had most of the generators completed due to no pressure on generators by the killer.
Second, I'm going to assume you've never played killer, spending the whole match camping one survivor to death and then even getting another kill is going to result in a paltry amount of BP, probably around 10k without enhancements, which is a pathetically low amount for killer who can get as much as 32k with a "perfect" game.
And I can DEFINITELY assure you that they will not pip using this tactic, guaranteed. Killers have four emblem rating mechanisms. Gatekeeper, Devout, Malicious, and Chaser. A camper will have a bad score in all four because.
Gatekeeper: Tracks how well you defended generators, except campers lose generators rapidly due to no pressure on the other survivors, leading to a bad emblem usually bronze or silver.
Devout - Based on number of hook actions. A camper is only getting 1 hook action per survivor if they camp, leading to again, a bronze or maybe even a non-emblem in this category.
Malicious - Based on number of survivor hits. If you are camping you aren't hitting anyone, another terrible emblem.
Chaser - Based on ending chases. Again if you are camping you aren't getting into chases at all, another terrible emblem.
I get the frustration of dealing with camping killers, really I do. But spreading blatant falsehoods just cause your salty just makes you look petulant and distracts from the main point.
No, you are spreading blatant falsehoods, I have 1600+ hours in this game and have played killer and survivor.
I am going to assume you have never played a random match of solo survivor - which is the scenario the OP is posting about. Three solo survivors with one on the hook will not pop three gens at once. It wont happen. SOMEONE is going to go for an off-hook. Without comms, probably more than one.
Assuming only one person goes to attempt the off hook or assess the situation, that's half a team not on generators. So no, three people on three separate gens, working from the moment a person gets hooked, is not realistic and happens almost never in random matches. Not because there's anything wrong with them and their ability to play the game well, but because Altruism is a survivor objective, it's not always apparent someone is being camped until you get to them, and you don't always have an indication of who is going in for an off-hook in random groups - which are most common when playing solo.
Even so, if the killer is camping their first hook and they aren't completely braindead, you probably still have a generator or two to go, depending on how quickly the killer hooked survivor 1...so the killer has ample time to find and chase down another survivor and lather, rinse, repeat. That's IF an altruistic survivor doesn't make a last ditch effort to save the poor hooked survivor before they die without really having an opportunity to play the game...which often happens to that person's own peril. Even if the off-hook is successful there's a number of risks that can equate to one or both players being downed (slugged and the off-hook tunneled, for example). This is called empathy. And while it may not be the most strategic play for yourself, personally, in this situation - it's the human choice and in line with survivor objectives.
If the other two survivors have tried to off-hook either player and taken hits...chased around anything...etc., all of this equates to enough pts for a killer to hit 20k and PIP after the second death. Unless the killer is just a real potato and missed opportunities to increase pts whilst making sure his hook is "defended".
I know exactly what Killer emblems are. They are the objectives killers routinely ignore to fulfill the only one they care about - Devout. Which is not based solely on hooks, it's also based on sacrifices, and kills. In this scenario, the killer would reach Silver, assuming they did nothing else after the second person died. But we all know someone bad enough to utilize this play style has NOED...and since all the remaining survivors had to hyper focus gens...that totem still exists. 🙄
I literally live this terrible game play every day. You don't need to try and lecture me about how its petulant to completely empathize with someone who has had the same experience.
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I just want a block system for players. I dont mind any killer or any map as long as that person isn't a total #########. Gamers themselves are what make matches fun or insufferable. I like the challenge of the variety of killer/map options. But I would like the ability to block a player and never be matched with them again when they are beyond toxic and ruin the game - killer or survivor.
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I feel you @Nikkiwhat. Killers camping and circling right back to the hook is infuriating when you just want to play the game. Its a rampant issue. Killer's don't want to hunt anymore. They will tell you that their hot camp and tunnel is justified because your teammate shouldnt have been seen off-hooking you, but it's hard not to be seen if the killer never leaves the hook to do anything else. Its frustrating for everyone. And regardless of what ppl say, they are rewarded for it. Because while they're camping and scaring off survivors trying to save - less gens are getting done. The likelihood they will get at least 2 kills this way is extremely high. If they simply spend the rest of the match pursuing the remaining survivors they will have 20k pts easy and likely a PIP. So you are right. There's nothing thwarting this behavior when you're playing with random survivors who are timid, uncoordinated, and not overtly altruistic/prepared to deal with toxic game play. A bad team almost feels worse than a bad killer and the compounded effect makes you want to pull your hair out...or at least play a different game. LOL You are right to feel this is undue "punishment" because there is no recourse. If a killer face camps you, there's nothing you personally can do to "gitgud" and save yourself on a hook. You just get to hang there, annoyed, with your game ruined and probably a depip. And that ######### will probably PIP. This is toxic bullshit that has resulted in so many DCs. You are not alone in feeling this way. Gotta squad up these days or the game is just insufferable. 🤷
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I tend to use Small Game to find totems. Never tried Detective's Hunch.
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@bgbomb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178741#Comment_1178741
I don't know if you play MM or not, but you will almost reach the stalk limit if you stalk a survivor form teir1 to teir3.
I do play MM on occasion. I didn't mean you can re-stalk people once everyone is stalked. I meant if that poster wants to down a potato so bad he can go stalk their teammates and then when he finds the potato he can down them. I am aware there is a stalk limit. LOL
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I don't know the individual map names, but I would probably say Autowrecker. I assume the one I like is Wreckers Yard. It's got plenty of opportunity for survivors to hide and chase. It doesn't have any obnoxious corn or reeds for killers to get blinded in or survivors to be too immersive. It has straightaways so killers like Billy can use their high mobility abilities. Good car loops and windows for trappin. I like it anyway. :)
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If players are being legitimately toxic or rude, who cares if you face camp or tunnel them? But just making face camping and tunneling your standard play is sad and lazy. It shows no skill and ruins the game for survivors who also just want to have fun. The difference between people being toxic to killers vs. people being toxic to survivors is that killers can do something about it. You can catch people, hook them, face camp them to death if you want. Survivors have no recourse for toxic killers anymore. They're expected to just grin and bear it. So just be nice. I have a killer your rank and I never get paired with R1 survivors unless an R1 happens to be in a SWF with lower lvl ppl. It can't happen that often.
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What other games? Im in the market. 🧐
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It was only a good change for Killers. *shrug*
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@YEEHAW_Main said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1178942#Comment_1178942
Well, if huntress was at that loop she would be forced to break it or go around, she has a wind up time! Deathslinger is almost instant.
No, she would just toss a hatchet while they're pulling the palette. Wind up is not trumped by the time it takes to pull a palette unless you're late on your throw. Its the same for a window vault. Its the easiest time for any ranged killer to get a hit on a survivor.
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@Brucecastro81 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1177758#Comment_1177758
ah you're entitled and wants the game easier to survivor, that explains. the sizes are going to be reduced, even if you complain and cry to BHVR saying: "This game is hard, pls nerf every single killer"
I could call you entitled as well, just wanting maps to be smaller so gens and survivors come to you instead of having to put in any effort or hone any skills. Also, BY FAR killers 'whine' to BHVR far more than survivors in this forum and in other FB groups. Also, Ormond is actually smaller than a lot of the classic DBD maps (https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Realms). Ya'll need to stop crying. 🤣
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Huntress mains just all collectively yawned.
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Doctor is just a punk ass killer to begin with, that's why. 🤣
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Turkie, from the 2008 cult classic, "Thankskilling" 🤣
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@Seiko300 said:
@LALYTHIA I mean sure, agree to disagree I guess I can respect that, despite the fact I spent multiple paragraphs going over multiple different aspects of both perks explaining why they do not have clear cut counters and you just kinda went "Nah." But ok.. I can still live with the agree to disagree.
But if I were to take one more moment to focus on this bit before moving on, because I just can't live with that answer for the portion I wrote about DS because it doesn't work. You might stand there and reiterate "very clear very easy to execute counters" and for Hex: Noed I'll let it slide (agree to disagree and all that), but for DS I won't because my point was not that killers can't counter the perk by "not tunneling lol?"
My whole shtick behind the DS portion was, to put in layman's terms: Survivors have a counter for the counter. Survivors (especially and absolutely in high ranks) know that if a killer has the option they will deliberately go out of their way to avoid the DS, it wastes too much time for a killer otherwise. For the next short period of time these survivors are not responding with a "self preservation" mentality, they aren't slowly slinking off to a corner of the map to self care, they are immediately capitalizing on their brief period of invulnerability by literally being bold and working to finish generators that are over 90%, make normally unsafe unhooks completely safe with a combination of BT giving the killer absolutely no room to punish such a terrible play, take protection hits & / or bodyblock for teammates that are in legitimate danger of being downed and hooked especially in critical moments like running to an open exit (or god forbid a closed hatch because somebody brought a key for an early ez escape), Opening up an exit gate in your face, Cleansing a hex: totem in your face, going for a sabotage play while you're carrying someone on your shoulder in your face, the list goes on and ######### ON. And you still have the audacity to tell me that it is fine for survivors to play THIS aggressive because there's a TIMER?????
A survivor doesn't even necessarily need to be under the actual effect to pull any of these stunts off because merely acting like you're still under the protection of the DS timer is enough for killers to cower under your short 5'4 survivor butt. And at that point it's up to the killer and whether or not he's going to call your bluff, and as I've said before if he calls it wrong then he's completely #########.
This isn't even mentioning that a survivor can deliberately make interactions that make them far more open to being grabbed than downed normally. Everybody knows about the "survivor in a locker with DS tee hee" but a lot less seem to be aware of the fact this extends to anything and everything that causes a killer to grab a survivor. That means "Oh man, this survivor is about to finish a generator at 95% I have to do something about it immediately-" Whoops, accidentally grabbed, Decisive Strike, stunned for 5 seconds, that generator is done and she is long gone. "Oh man, this survivor is cleansing my Hex: Huntress Lullaby that I just got up to 5 stacks I have to do something about it immediately-" Whoops, accidentally grabbed, Decisive Strike, stunned for 50 seconds and she is long gone. "Oh man, she's opening a door when I have everybody on death hook I just need a little bit more pressure and I can't let her open that gate-" Whoops accidentally grabbed, Decisive Strike, STUNNED FOR 50 minutes the gate is open you've just lost all that pressure and 2 other people just escaped alongside her. This also extends to the many, many pallets and windows scattered across the maps, slow vaulting any of these can also net these unintended or forced grabs.
Now obviously, the answer here is "Just swing early and don't grab dummy?" Right? WRONG. The point here is that survivors will continually put themselves in interactions such as these where killers are more likely to grab you, all the time and let's face it killers are the ones under pressure to act quickly, instinctively, and on reflex here not survivors.
Perfect example: I was Oni on Rancid Abattoir, I caught a Jake who was working on the last generator and had it maybe around 90%, put him on a hook that due to rng was posted up right next to that generator barely 4m away, I turn around only to hear a survivor working on the opposite side from me and I round the corner of the gen immediately into an M1. I wasn't particularly going for a grab, but if I got one I wouldn't mind, turns out it was the injured Nea and I did grab her, also turned out that apparently completely unbeknownst to me because I was nowhere near her when she was unhooked (so not tunneling if I am to put it plainly) her DS timer had not run out. Hence why she completely ignored my presence, I ate the DS she finished the last gen during my 50 hour stun, triggering her Adrenaline and the Jake I had just hooked not 10 seconds before who also had Adrenaline.
So when you tell me DS has a "very clear, very easy to execute counter" I will use the same turn of phrase not when "this perk [is] abused to it's fullest extent" or as you basically put it earlier: "Nah."
I will remind you that this thread is about NOED. Which is why I keep my thoughts/feelings on other perks relatively short. But, I did read your entire write up. I'm curious - what is your solution? DS has been reduced to a perk specifically designed to counter tunneling...so what is the solution to tunneling, if not DS?
Now that DC ban is in effect and killers feel free to play as dirty and inconsiderate as they like, because they know you're not going to leave a match if they face camp and tunnel you, the need for a perk like DS has never been more prevalent.
I find it funny that you complain about how bold DS makes survivors. I hear time and time again from killers in post-game that they treated our team they way they did because we "hid too much". So survivors are punished by unsportsmanlike killers when we're too immersive...and also abusive ######### if we're too aggressive. Interesting.
"...merely acting like you're still under the protection of the DS timer is enough for killers to cower under your short 5'4 survivor butt"...this sounds incredibly pathetic. If you "cower in fear" of DS after it's dropped off, that's on YOU. In the scenario you described - the survivors were going to get that gen anyway - it was 90% completed. It would take 4 or 5 seconds to finish. A normal or uninjured skillful player would have run in and done the exact same thing. I commit to a gen like that even when DS isn't active...especially if its the last gen. Its worth taking a hit. This proves nothing about your claims of how 'abusive' it is.
Just like many many other perks, like NOED, it has the ability to be very advantageous in the right moments. Its also still very high risk for the aforementioned reasons. A) Killers may not tunnel you (although they almost always do these days) and B) they can also just slug you and run out your timer...or god forbid C) just hit you again. 🙄
Taking a hit for a teammate is actually a survivor objective. So, you can blame Behavior for survivors using themselves and their perks to be altruistic. Its merely part of a survivor's pt structure - although I do understand the feeling of loss when a body block stops you from getting a down or a hook you worked for. That sucks...its also part of the game. You aren't going to win every chase or every match...even though rn killers are winning more matches than survivors.
I also love how numerous killers have built in insta-down abilities - not even perks - so they only have to hit survivors 1 time to down them...and killers have such a melt down about survivors being able to jump out off their shoulder, mainly if they're tunneled but also if downed within 60 seconds of their hook. You're mad because they get off the hook and aren't completely unproductive? Really?
I think you said it best in your own write up when you stated, "For the next short period..." and "capitalizing on their brief period of invulnerability"...killers have no problem capitalizing on their "brief" moments of invincibility...god forbid instead of all survivors slinking off into the corner to halt their objectives and touch their booty they actually try and do something with their 60 seconds...which doesn't make them invulnerable, it just means they can take an extra hit. This is not the issue you are making it out to be in a handful of specific scenarios.
I can understand that in very select situations it sucks for people who don't have a toxic play style and just want to earn hooks and get their pips fair and square. I know that because I don't have a toxic play style and it feels bad as killer to watch someone you just worked to catch scamper off while you're dazed and confused. But as a survivor in the game right now, most killers play toxic. The ratio of campy/tunnely matches to not is staggering because there is no longer ANY recourse. So, no. Survivors should not have to give up their "brief period" of invulnerability as they try and scrape together some semblance of a match while being hellaciously camped and tunneled because in some specific cases it can suck in a single match for a decent killer.
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@bgbomb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1177894#Comment_1177894
so I can not teir 3 hit a potato survivor because I already did it before ?
So killer can not even gain the advantage by find the weak part of survivor ?
It sounds like you just don't have to have to hit people twice, ever. That's never going to be a thing. You absolutely can insta-down a potato more than once...after you stalk their teammates. Killers already have quite a bit of advantage. Especially against a random squad, which is most matches. You'll be fine. ;)
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So it requires you to stalk all survivors to gain your ability multiple times, not just one potato survivor.
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Do you happen to play Leatherface? 😂
Camping and proxying hooks so you can either kill the hooked person with little to no effort or "find" the next survivor without patrolling the map to actually find survivors and engage in a real chase is lazy and lacks skill. It's also incredibly unenjoyable for survivors, ruins the game for whoever you face camp to death, and ignores basic emblem objectives, like Gatekeeper.
The standard retort to this is "LuL DoNt GeT CaUgHt" or "gitgud"...but the game is designed for survivors to get caught...otherwise killers wouldn't have any fun. So that suggestion is ignorant.
I can understand this play style is in end game when defending the hook is the only job left for a killer to do, but that's pretty much it. If you continue to play like this, expect there to be a lot of first hook suicides and post-game chat upset. You don't need to play like this to gain rank. I played trapper for a few hours the other day after becoming exhausted by killers who play just like what you described (yes, I play killer to relax LOL) and I gained six ranks. I didn't camp, tunnel, or slug anyone to do it. It's not that difficult in most matches.
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I dunno about you, but my wall breaks come with a "HI-YAHHHH!" sound effect...and it's quite satisfying. 😂
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What is the objective for killers? 😂 Behavior literally spells out all four of the objectives every match. It does not include only killing people as quickly as possible. I can easily red PIP on a killer while not intentionally killing anyone (although accidents happen 🤷). So if you're having trouble PIPing after killing ALL 4 SURVIVORS, you are doing something terribly wrong. Try focusing on any of the THREE OTHER objectives outside of sacrificing survivors. You will open up a whole new world of PIPs when you explore the map beyond the first hook you put someone on. 👍️
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Gens/Cleanse before friends 😏
JK JK - I refuse to play solo anymore. Both sides of the fence can really ruin the game.