HoodedWildKard
HoodedWildKard
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097351#Comment_4097351
go for unhook>killer is forced to hit you>killer is animation locked>teammate unhooks>unhooked survivor bodyblocks you
it is 100% consistent excepting specific killer powers that counter it, there is nothing the killer can do to avert it, there is no mechanical execution involved
It isn't that cut and dried, there are an awful lot more variables. Human error and skill expression for a start, even a slight mistime in the unhook, like taking the hit a second or so early means a hook trade. Tunneling isn't generally the best move, usually you want to go for the person getting the save, if you hit a third party and someone else goes fpr the unhook then commit to the one you hit originally. It all depends on how you play it. Face camping is pretty easy, and occasionally you will lose a kill and get a 0k but it's hardly consistent. The easy to play it is to get a hit pre unhook. Then that player is at risk of a down. The planning ahead is also important. If you are on 1 or 2 gens left or endgame then when you do secure a hook run for a hook that is further from exit gates, or is tactically dangerous for a save i.e. basement, on top of a mound etc.
Even if you have a healthy surv bodyblocking, keeping up a consistent bodyblock all the way up to the gate isn't easy, even an m1 killer can cut them off, because they can't afford to take the shortest route a lot of time beacuse open ground is risky. They'll path to pallets/vaults so you can cut the cornera and head straight for gate. Certain (well over half the killer roster) killers can counterplay this with their basekit anyway powers, ranged killers, traversal killers, not to mention perks. You did mention that but also instantly dismiss it because it doesn't prove your point.
Just because you'll occasionally lose a kill in this situation doesn't make it a given conclusion every time you get an endgame hook.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097314#Comment_4097314
'pulling off' something that is 100% consistent and requires no mechanical execution of note is not really a good way of putting it
Pulling a clean save against a killer who can freely face camp during endgame can hardly be described as 100% consistent and requiring no mechanical execution. It isn't easy to pull off and can easily result in a hook trade or snowball.
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I've been enjoying it. Initially I thought it was hugely survivor sided. But after playing a few killer games I've realised killers just needed to adapt, since mapwide heals are a thing, injury pressure doesn't work and you just need quick downs. So one shot builds are a good shout. Stealth works very well too. And since people are running around finding plates and setting tables gen regression and totem builds work much better for slowdown. The event is eminently winnable for killers, they just need to use playstyles to suit the event.
The different foods and buffs they give all change the way the game is played in interesting ways and the poison is a very powerful counterplay for killers to get easier hits, especially to confirm a down and end chases quicker to avoid the table setting heal. The invisibility cheese and portals are definitely a bit much though.
Other than the cheese my only main issue with the event balancing is thay the tray and dining table spawns can be a little unbalanced. Having a tray spawn directly next to a table like in the club on tricksters delusion is a bit busted, likewise when the tables spawn in an edge location far away from the nearest tray spawns it makes setting tables unviable. Seen this on dead dawg a few times. And since the tables displace gen spawns it has made the maps a bit unbalanced.
But overall a good event and a nice change of pace.
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This argument comes up a lot. And to be honest I don't want to see survivors nerfed for endgame saves. I play both roles equally and find that 0k games are pretty rare.
When you get a 0k as killer it is immensely frustrating, i get that. But I also feel it's super unfair to punish survivors for doing well. Throwing killers a free kill if they get an endgame hook just isn't necessary.
The basekit bt makes it viable to pull off a clean save during endgame for a 4 man out. But the timing and coordination required has to be flawless. Otherwise killer snowballs and can secure more downs and hooks. Usually you can only manage this with high skill players and fully coordinated swfs.
And we really don't need hook grabs back, it's a very unhealthy mechanic that applied far too much pressure both in early and late game. Trading for a hook is fine. But getting grbbed off the hook without getting the unhook is pretty much a game ender. A situation where two players are on hook next to each other pretty much instantly loses the game for survivors. I remember back when hook grabs were a thing and you would see so many proxy or straight up face camping killers that would just chain hook after hook with little effort.
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If you want pinhead to come back you just need to fiddle with the puzzlebox while he's not in a chase he wants to commit to.
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@Cornil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095604#Comment_4095604
I don't think its unfair to say "refuse" when we haven't had a meaningful perk rework or balancing change since the Trickster chapter refresh, and that was just a handful of perks from that chapter basically. One of which was entirely problematic and had to be reworked again, and another one of which a lot of players still complain about (self-preservation)
We wouldn't need to work the game around disconnect penalties and abandon options if the game were in a healthy enough state for the average player to not become miserable or bored in the middle of a match. Eventually it happens for so many games in a row that they just want to Alt-F4 and play something else. That's all I'm saying. The balancing will never be perfect, but I can literally remember a time not so long ago where there were not this many disconnects in my games. Even going as far back as before the penalties we have now.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095601#Comment_4095601
You can have a casual game with strict balancing. No one booting up Call of Duty Black Ops Zombies back in 2011 was sitting there complaining that there should be disconnect penalties, or how you should get a temporary ban for throwing a game, going afk, buying the wrong door at the start of the game, or anything else. I'm sure you'd agree to define CoD Zombies as casual. Okay, now imagine all of the balancing decisions that actually went into making the gamemode by Treyarch and Activision. There's a point system, getting normal kills or knife kills gives different point amounts, every weapon has a different point purchase value, every gun had to have a different damage value that wasn't just copied and pasted from the campaign or multiplayer. Thousands of different possible influences on the flow of gameplay. Many guns were made purposefully bad but had unique uses when upgraded. Its a great example of the intricacies of even a simple, casual game.
Balancing is just as important in casual games as it is in competitive games. Not in the same seriousness and nature of a competitive game, where the goal of balancing is to make a fair playing field of opportunities, kinda like a game of chess. But in the nature of making the experience and interactions of your opportunities equally viable. I've complained numerous times that the main problem of DbD's "metas" throughout its history is that the pool of viable perks was always infinitely smaller than the actual ocean of perks we had. Currently we have over 170 survivor perks and you're lucky to see 20 unique perks used in 20 different matches. There are already categories of perks (aura reading, exhaustion, action speed, etc), the goal of balancing DbD should be on making all the perks in these categories equally powerful in whatever their given use is, of course depending on if its niche or general. If every perk had close to an equal value across the match dead hard or decisive strike both bring, then maybe you'd see a lot less decisive strike and dead hard. Monotony is the death of fun. Just ask anyone who has a "two week minecraft phase" lol, even something you absolutely love and enjoy can quickly grow old if you hammer at it long enough with no variety.
May have to agree to disagree but I think it is unfair. Perks get tweaked and reworked regularly enough.
Dead hard, distortion, eruption, hex:ruin, hex:TOTH, deerstalker, sloppy butcher, boon circle of healing, made for this. These are just the ones that I can think of offhand that have been reworked to be improved or nerfed.
For a game that has been going 10 years and adds 3-6 new perks every few months the balance is going to be an absolute nightmare. That goes double for an asymmetric game.
And again, you play soloq , there is no theoretical way that bhvr can balance the game to be fair for soloq survs and not ruin it for killers up against good swfs. And vice versa.
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I mean i tend to play chill anyway as killer unless survs are super sweaty or BMy. But yh during the event if everyone brings cakes and i get the upper hand in a game I'll just double hook everyone then farm long as nobody asks to go next by pointing at hook.
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Yeah jason's ranged attack needs toning down a bit.
And the the event has pushed players in a really bad direction. They've pushed the boat out to make a unique event and I appreciate that, but the sheer power of the survivor mechanics is breeding a really bad situation. Super survivor sided powers (mapwide, handsoff instant heals for all survs? Who thought that wasn't busted?) mean that killers are hard tunneling as a response to get pressure in games by killing someone at 4 gens. It's just making the vent mad toxic and super frustrating. Like who wants to get tunneled out at 5 gens and get no BP when everybody brought toothy tortes, that are in shorter supply than event bps usually are.
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@Cornil said:
I've played hundreds and hundreds of matches since the DC penalty was added, including the "giving up" penalty if you AFK or purposefully get killed as a survivor. I've found that in both my killer and survivor games it hasn't reduced the amount of people disconnecting at all. In fact, it seems like there are more disconnects in my matches than ever before.
If BHVR refuses to balance the game properly, and is going to keep adding unfun and tedious events that are easy to abuse by problematic players (SWFs), and make solo-queue players get curb stomped, why even have the penalty? It's just slowly killing the playerbase by making players who DC just go play a different game. In my opinion, its like putting stitches on a papercut. If enough players disconnect from games eventually they'll probably end up quitting DBD outright, or eventually finding themselves in a state where they won't be so frustrated. They'll at least feel like they have a choice whether or not they have to play the game they queued for. This is a casual game for crying out loud, not Counterstrike, not Valorant, not Rainbow Six. Not everyone wants to play like their whole family is on the line every match. Ultimately, they will disconnect either way, the penalty is just encouraging them not to boot the game back up.
I sometimes have the most miserable matches ever as killer, 15+ minutes long of grueling sweaty nonsense where I either barely win by a hair, or lose abysmally. After eating a third dead-hard and a second decisive strike, on my 18th pallet kicked, all on a C tier M1 killer that has zero map mobility or ranged ability, why can't I just give survivors the win and DC? Is it really necessary to take my rank grade a full level down and give me an incrementally larger cooldown? I mean I'll give them the BP I don't care, I just want out at that point, but they keep the game going no matter what. I've seen numerous killers I've faced just go AFK at that point so they can't be farmed for BP. But when the roles are reversed, and I obliterate a bully squad in the first 5 minutes because they misplayed their flashlight or pallet saves, they just DC anyway and the one or two randoms in the lobby are stuck with bots. How is it fair that people who abide by the penalties have to suffer because the penalties do nothing to discourage the toxic players these changes were intended for?
If people don't want to play, I say let them not play. At least then I can play against bots, or go next as killer. Until they create a proper MMR system or get some real balancing in the game's current meta, nothing will change, penalty or no penalty everyone is rage-quitting left right and center, and I can't blame them. There's nothing currently to enjoy in the game on either side. Killer's either get bullied, or survivors get steamrolled at 4 gens.
And before you downvote me I'm asking a serious question, I've always been a fan of MintSkull and he basically released a statement today that he's stepping back from DbD because of almost all the reasons I listed here. Poor balance, monotonous meta, entitled survivors that DC either way. I want a genuine discussion here, because I'm on the brink of quitting the game myself.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2O2W9WO53LCI/202606-7e4-jpg.jpg
edit: got stuck in the ground while i was typing this, 10/10 event. How is this acceptable for the 10th anniversary of all years? I also just played a Knight game just now and halfway through the match (was unbreakable pallets as the modifier) my guards just became unable to walk through downed pallets and would just walk into them until their chase timer ran out. I wonder how many DC penalties are being handed out just from bugs alone this event
Because DCs will increase to insane levels. You said yourself you don't want to play with bots and should be allow to DC if other players DC. A lot of people already DC and just take the penalty. It would increase massively if dc penalty was removed.
As for game balance, it has always, still is and likely always will be an absolute mess. An asymmetric game will always be impossible to perfectly balance. So saying the devs "refuse" to balance it is a bit unfair. Doesn't help they churn out a new killer and new survivor perks every months, but have to keep that money rolling in. Unfortunately it's just something qe hsve to tolerate of we want to play.
I do get the frustration, believe me. Dbd can be a very frustrating game when you're on a loss/death streak. As killer I find myself having to either play constant meta builds and strong killers, or play like scrub and hardtunnel/proxy camp to win games with less meta builds or weaker killers. But that is the nature of the game. You really don't help yourself by only playing soloq. Soloq is famously bad for survivors, no communication plus random often useless teammates means you'll die in the vast majority of your games. Swf would be much more pleasant, find 2 or 3 friends to run with and you'll have better luck and probably more fun, having ppl to chat with makes losses a bit less unpleasant.
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
I play on Xbox so anon mode isn't an option or I would turn it on 24/7.
Played a few games last night, and today I went into my playstation app to see what was on sale, only to find I had messages full of abuse from people who tracked my account
Why are some of you like this? It's disgusting and this is an absolute awful community.
People get mad tilted at dbd.
It is a super frustrating game, especially when you're on a losing streak. Goes double for killer.
Players absolutely hate the tactics the other side need to employ to win so it breeds super bad attitudes.
It's not all doom and gloom though. I have met a few nice people on dbd.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091852#Comment_4091852
Well what is a healthy length for chase then? Starting a chase with a ranged hit then following up with an M1 down in 10-15 seconds is a very short chase. Plus he can just insta grab another spear.
This screams you cant dodge ranged killers, as you can, and many have, dodged jason spears. If your losing in 10-15s against jason thats a definite skill issue, theres no way to put that politely. Most survivors should be able to last 30+s in a chase vs jason, using loops/pallets to hid/break LOS. If you cannot survive even that then you are the problem here.
And for the other ranged killers ranged attacks are all weaker than jason's spear and yet they come with recovery times even on a miss. Huntress hatchets are much harder to aim and hit than jason's spear and they don't push the survivor in a way the survivor has no control over she also has a 2 second period after the throw where she moves at 3.74 m/s. deathslinger isn't guarenteed to down with his ranged attack on an injured survivor, a bad hit to an injured surv is literally a self stun and even a straight miss his movement is slowed for a second or two as the spear reels back in. Nemi has a second or two of slowdown after he fires the whip and that needs the surv to be infected for it to work.
This is wrong on so many levels, your just factually wrong. Huntress hatchets are easier to aim and hit, they have a bigger hitbox and if you charge them for slightly longer than the time it takes for jason's animation you can go as fast as his. And she gets 7 of them basekit. The only thing you've said correct about this comparison is they don't push you away, which should be an advantage you use as a survivor knowing your going to get pushed.
Deathslinger isn't guaranteed his down, but has an easier reload and has no animation between aiming and shooting so its harder to predict, and the projectile shoots much faster.
classing nemi as the ranged killer you next want to talk about shows how disingenuous your being when theres other ranged killers you just haven't mentioned yet (springtrap for example) because it would make your point look ridiculous.
For jason to have an objectively more powerful ranged attack than any of these and have no recover time after throw or pick up animation is a but nuts.
Again, as i said before , your just objectively wrong on this. Also he does have an animation between picking up a spike and m1'ing that lasts 2s.
I'm not asking for his spear to be gutted or even dragged down to the same level as huntress or slinger (they are both mid/low tier killers at best. I'm just saying he should have a huntress like slowdown applied for a couple seconds after the throw because currently he has absolutely none. I'd also like to see a slight animation to pick up spear midchase to allow survivors a bit more breathing space, bot a long one, maybe 0.3-5 secs since he nay detour for the pickup and would stand still as he grabs it.
Again so much wrong this statement, lets pick it apart.
"huntress like slowdown"- you mean, the only slowdown she gets is when she reloads (like jason) or is holding her hatchet down, she has none during the animation of the hatchet and it stops her m1 for the same time.
"slight animation to pick up spear midchase"- there is one, where he cant m1, he already has this. unless your asking him to be stunlocked for this, which is stupid, considering unlike huntress he has 1 shot, unlike the 7 she reloads at a time.
This whole Comment has just highlighted how little you know about all of the killers you've talked about, to the point im questioning if you've actually played any of them. Now this could just be some disingenuous farce seeking to point score on the internet, which if it is ive divulged way tooo much of my time answering it. In the case this is a genuine question, i hope you even slightly reflect on all the statements you've made and how wrong they are.
For a start i know his spears are dodgeable, I have a reasonably good dodge rate aginst them. My point is that on a hit they set up double taps so easily. Because short chases are bad for the game.
And shot for shot they are definitely the best single ranged attack in the game. Idk how you can say a jason spear is harder to hit that a huntress hatchet. The hatchets are slower, have a way more pronounced arc. I myself am pretty bad with huntress's hatchets, but in the few games I've played with jason his spears are laughably easy to hit.
Plus you say you question whether I even play these killers when you don't seem to know the stats involved. All 3 of the examples huntress, slinger and nemesis have a move slowdown after their ranged attacks. I even quoted the huntress 2 secs of move speed drop as a throw recovery but you glossed over that or didn't read it since apparently her only ranged slowdown is reloading. Slinger has a lengthy reload with reduced movement speed plus the time for missed shot to reel back in and nemi has to reel in the tentacle also with a move slowdown.
Incidentally I play slinger and nemesis quite a bit. Huntress not so much because I don't like her gameplay but I have played her enough to be familair with her mechanics.
The whole point of these post shot slowdowns is to give survivors a chance to make a bit of distance since ranged killers don't need to M1 them so more distance is needed to make dodging possible. Jason doesn't have that, and since his spear pickup is intantaneous and there are scrap piles/hooks all over the place easy to pick up without detouring much in chase. So yeah his ranged attack is objectively stronger than the other projectile based killers. Plus he has omnipresent evil too. Huntress and slinger rely entirely on their ranged attack with no other traversal or chase abilities.
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Welcome to the forums and the game in general.
First answer yes, it will tank your mmr and keep it low because the game will think you're losing constantly as I'm pretty sure mmr is based off of kills.
Second answer, it depends on the individual player. Some want to play the game as intended and don't like farming or being deliberately released and really hate wasting time finishing a bunch of gens on a game they should've lost. Some others appreciate a killer being friendly and releasing them. I'd say as a rule most players tend to appreciate a friendly killer.
Personally I have a similar approach, though I'll usually kill at least 2 players in the match and tend to let 1 or 2 go. But it is nice to see someone trying to actively make the gsme more pleasant for other players 😊 it's a rare thing.
My advice would be if you have a player who keeps pointing at hook or obviously doesn't want to be there then just slap them on hook so they can go next.
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To be honest a survivor who abuses their anti tunnel help and deliberately goes for the protection hit after being unhooked is a totally fair tunneling target imo.
I will almost never trigger a tunnel straight off hook (unless that surv has been particularly toxic) but if someone body blocks me from getting a hit on their rescuer? You took a big risk and it's about to bite you.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091919#Comment_4091919
The sad thing is that it made it completely unuseable for people who just dont enjoy chases or are not good at them. And I dont think this should be an issue, since you can be stealthy and still be productive. But offering another way of playing the game instead of just becoming a looping god was great.
But having to become good at chases to earn Tokens for a Perk which lets you avoid chases is just very strange design.
Yeah it is very backwards. I mean I'm not all for hiding all game and doing nothing. But stealth is a very valid playstyle, especially for newer players. A new player who can stealth avoid the killer and work gens isuchore useful than a new player who gets caught goes down quick and then gets hard tunneled put because they are the easy target
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I miss old distortion.
It probably was a little too strong before. Dropping the number of tokens was fine. But the recharging only by being in chase has gutted it.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091249#Comment_4091249
Lmao, and playing with Comms in a game not balanced around it and then pretending it doesn't make you insanely strong isn't egotistical?
Killer is stronger then survivor soloqueue, "casual" swf are on par with killer. Comp swf beat killer. These are generally accepted. And are Stated by big streamers, it's you who has an ego that your ability/knowledge of the game is better than those.
I mean I'm pretty sure the streamers are the ones with the big egos. They make sweeping statements and generally only consider their own gameplay experience at their own skill bracket (usually super high)
And often they are completely wrong. Had a streamer who claimed to have over 9000 hours in game cuss me out after I played killer against them. He accused me of breaking the rules on 3 counts:
1. Tunneling: laughable because it's not against the rules even if I had been hard tunneling, which I wasn't.
2. Guarding a 3 gen. Also laughable not against the rules and i was guarding the last central gen on dead dawg because the pther 2 had popped and it had 70% on it.
3. Lighting pentimento twice. Astounds me that a 9000+ hour player didn't know that pentimento can light on multiple totems.
Streamers come out with all sorts of nonsense about balance and people just parrot it back.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091537#Comment_4091537
Im not talking about your ability to reach another tile, im talking about the ability to move forwards away from the killer and just hold w away from them after getting hit. Even after only flying slightly forward the speed boost from injury should allow you to hold w for a bit and make some distance. You might get caught before the next tile if unlucky, but you should be able to reach something to loop (even if its just a z wall) if you can path efficiently. To call a hit 10-15s after a ranged attack a double tap is a bit disingenuous.
And the second part just means your punishing him for hitting his shots then, which again doesnt make sense. There are other nerfs that can be given, and you can dodge his ranged attack relatively consistently, so theres no need to then allow you to freely get to a new tile because you got hit. Again, no other killer does that, and I've yet to hear an argument for that. You say misses are punishing for huntress and slinger, when both of those are nowhere near what your suggesting. Huntress especially can just throw another hatchet, she has 7. Wesker gets a miss from his power because the hitbox is his entire body, which is an incredibly forgiving hitbox unlike jason's who is the same size as deathslinger shot rather than hatchets/weskers entire body. Nemisis doesnt get a slowdown after the slash, just whilst slashing, but his slash also destroys pallets. Slinger can just reload or choose not to and go on to m1 and most people run keys to make it take next to no time. None of these examples get punished anywhere similarly to what your describing and you are at best stretching these examples to fit your narrative here.
Well what is a healthy length for chase then? Starting a chase with a ranged hit then following up with an M1 down in 10-15 seconds is a very short chase. Plus he can just insta grab another spear.
And for the other ranged killers ranged attacks are all weaker than jason's spear and yet they come with recovery times even on a miss. Huntress hatchets are much harder to aim and hit than jason's spear and they don't push the survivor in a way the survivor has no control over she also has a 2 second period after the throw where she moves at 3.74 m/s. deathslinger isn't guarenteed to down with his ranged attack on an injured survivor, a bad hit to an injured surv is literally a self stun and even a straight miss his movement is slowed for a second or two as the spear reels back in. Nemi has a second or two of slowdown after he fires the whip and that needs the surv to be infected for it to work.
For jason to have an objectively more powerful ranged attack than any of these and have no recover time after throw or pick up animation is a but nuts.
I'm not asking for his spear to be gutted or even dragged down to the same level as huntress or slinger (they are both mid/low tier killers at best. I'm just saying he should have a huntress like slowdown applied for a couple seconds after the throw because currently he has absolutely none. I'd also like to see a slight animation to pick up spear midchase to allow survivors a bit more breathing space, bot a long one, maybe 0.3-5 secs since he nay detour for the pickup and would stand still as he grabs it.
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@Jay_K said:
Was playing a few games as killer today and was met with some, lets say, unhappy survivors post game. Now i played the games fairly casual. Didn't sweat for the 4k or hard tunnel anyone yet still they arn't happy (Even had the ole Instant DC because they got sniped thru a wall by vecna).
Why can't we just play DBD for fun anymore. Everything has to be about being top mmr or win streak or going in all guns blazing 4 man sweat squad/killer bring the 4 most busted perks with busted killer.
Honestly the most fun i have in DBD is when i just say screw it and just chill in the game. Stick some fun up beat music on and just play the game. If you lose then so what, you just go onto the next game.
If your incapable of having fun in the game or if your triggered that much by losing then why do you even play video games.
So I ask that next time you boot up DBD grab some goofy perks and roll with. Don't go for the kill or escape but instead make the game your own, have your win condition something else and the escape/kills are just a bonus.And if you really wanna have fun go play ghostface with Benny hill playing in the background. Trust me it will make your day :)
Dbd is a pretty intense game. Ppl's blood gets up very quick on it. A relaxed game for you can be mad stressful for the other team. Particularly when you play killer.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091492#Comment_4091492
The first part is chill.
The second part im not so agreeable on. If jason's able to get an m1 on you instantly after using his ranged, thats a missplay on your end. I've played as jason for about 35 games now, and 20 survivor, and the handful of times thats happened have been survivors not paying attention to their surroundings and then not using their speedburst correctly from being hit by the ranged attack and injury and failing to make any distance and instead running into a wall.
Recovery after throw wouldnt really help in these situations. And the only time it would punish is after a miss, in which punishing his reload/power cd would be much better at punishing instead of a small recovery after ranged attack (which no ranged killers have btw, no ranged killers have to animate after throwing/shooting something that stops them m1'ing), You can make distance after a ranged attack, you just need to be aware of your surroundings and how you loop him. I've yet to be put in one of these situations, so apologies but i cannot see a situation where he forces you into this outside of you messing up (except from that one room in the game).
The distance after being hit is really all about luck. If you hit a solid object your flight distance is cut down AND you have to waste speed boost on circumventing whatever you hit before you can run directly away from him. The double tap is the most egregious example but you do very often end up in a situation when you can't make a pallet or vault quick enough. And i run windows so my situational awareness isn't at fault because I use a crutch perk to know where the nearest chase resource is at all time. When you fly the full distance you have a decent chance to extend chase it's very rare that you fly the full distance.
Tbh I'm all for him having no recovery on a missed shot. The projectile is fast but it isn't diabolically hard to dodge. So i wouldn't want to see misses made too punishing (despite the fact they they are for all other ranged and dash killers huntress, slinger, wesker, nemi etc)
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091492#Comment_4091492
He can't see survivors who don't work on gen or move while in omni-present mode. Getting out of it is already quite disorienting for a player, without a killer instinct and scream it would be a terrible power to use.
His spear shot is already difficult because he needs to raise a spear and aim which are not instant. This means if there is any obstacle or corner then there's a high chance to miss the spear and every missed spear is a huge distance and time loss for this killer.
As for getting a distance after getting speared - you do get that already. So long as you don't get skewered to a wall, the spear shot does push you in the direction of the shot itself, giving you the distance that you would had received from the boost that survivors get after being damaged.
Yeah that's kind of the problem with OE mode. It literally stops survivors doing anything productive without risking getting in chase. You can't do gens, cleanse totems, heal anyone. You have to just stop what you're doing and crouch walk around in circles until he reappears. It straight up pauses the game is making jason games much longer than they should be and immensley tedious.
As for the spear. It's not difficult to hit and the misses aren't punishing. I've played jason and the ranged attack is far stronger and easier to use than any other ranged attack in the game. The aim slow down is much less than slingers or huntresses, there is no recover slowdown after the throw and no slow down on the pickup. The slight line is ruler straight and the projectile speed is bloody fast. After the hit pretty much the only time you get appreciable distance from killer is if you don't hit an obstacle, which is extremely rare. Most of the time you plank out on a wall or obstacle and not only lose the flight distance but lose part of your injury speed boost by not being able to run straight away from killer. It very often puts you in a position where you can't make a vault or pallet before you take the second hit. Just look at wesker, whether he misses his dash or if he gets a virulent bound grab and throw, he has a recovery animation so the survivor can gain distance so he can't just double tap them. Jason has no such slow down, he just keeps coming without missing a beat. On a short or even midrange hit it puts a huge amount of pressure on chase. And the aura read for hook spears? That's just greedy.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091467#Comment_4091467
Your saying an m1 killer with no spike throw would be "viable"- and by viable we're talking above B tier. Competitively viable. Because we see a killer with insane info be locked into C tier for years (Doctor). We've seen a killer with good mobility (much better than jason's) and another power not being able to enter A tier (dredge). Your just wrong on this. Most A/S tiers either have 1 thing theyre oppressively good at, or a decent mixture of them all. There is no single part of Jason's kit thats oppressive.
I agree with some of your changes, however.
Removing killer instict after leaving OE leaves the only RELIABLE information he can get, unless your all for increasing the range the scream can occur to the range killer instict can occur. His phase shift's info can be removed by crouching. otherwise he gets 0 info. Again, removing a part of his kit isn't a viable option unless you match it with a buff to another part making that part strong rather then mediocre.
I can see removing all haste from leaving OE, but that in itself is a huge nerf, removing other things with that would be gutting the guy. A reduction in haste duration from 25s to lets say 10s matched with a phase shift increased cooldown would be a better solution (allows for punishing his bad choices, without making chases harder for him which would just incentivise tunneling/camping hook in phase shift)
Slowdown on his ranged attack already occurs, i could see a world in which he gets a slow down picking up a spike but not that and a recovery from his ranged attack. My suggestion would be limiting scrap heaps making it harder for him to reload, whilst matched with the power cd increased it punishes misses.
The killer instinct is OP combined with the ranged attack because it lets him pre aim through walls. I'm happy with a bigger range to trigger the scream and it not being counterable by crouching.
I'm more for a recovery after throw than I am a pickup animation. The throw m1 double tap is starting to get hugely annoying. Because the spear blasts you in a direction that often slams you into a wall so you either don't gain distance or actively lose it when you get pushed into a dead end and he doesn't even miss a beat just keep strolling towards you. There's a reason killers have a wipe animation after hitting an m1. After taking a ranged attack from jason you need to be able to get a bit of distance to avoid the follow up m1.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091467#Comment_4091467
Yes, let's gut him so he becomes another Krasue or Skull Merchant.
Literally read my posts. Nerfs I suggested here were reasonable. And in the other post I made I explicitly said I don't want to see him gutted like skull merchant.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090849#Comment_4090849
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091416#Comment_4091416
Disagree on this, if you removed any part of his power hed be weak. The issue is he has too much and each piece is mediocre on its own.
The nerfs I suggest are: Increased power cd, decreased scrap piles, decreased haste duration after exiting power.
Other nerfs either don't target his issues, or make one part of his power useless (and ergo, he becomes a C tier killer).
Mind You, doctor, who has all the information in the world and an antichase power, is C tier.
There is directions to go, but just removing part of the power isnt it.
I'm not saying to remove one of them completely. But it is true that either one on their own would make for a viable killer. But both powers just have way too many upsides for the killer. They need toning down.
He shouldn't get any haste at all after leaving OE
he needs some kind of slowdown on his ranged attack (animation to pick up and recovery after a throw)
And he shouldn't get killer instinct after leaving OE, just a scream notification.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091416#Comment_4091416
oh yeah i saw that post, i swear its mostly killer mains like us who think hes fine. I have played as this guy and it bothers me that people think hes perfectly fine. no. he needs nerfs and people need to see that
I mean i consider myself a split player between surv and killer. But yh the tribalism is real
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091410#Comment_4091410
Hes just incredibly unhealthy in his current state lol
Hard agree. I made a ranty but informtive post about and got downvoted to hell.
Either power on it's own would make for a strong killer. Both combined is nuts. I also love crouch walking and being unable to do anything for extended periods of time.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091396#Comment_4091396
played it like an hour after my message, i got two headpops (one head trapped survivor was sitting his butt on a gen and finishes it) got the 4K thanks to an excellent ambush play i made
Good stuff. We'll make them nerf pig yet 🤣
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091405#Comment_4091405
Some people out there thinks he needs buffs lol
A lot of jason simps out there who'd throw a fit if their idol got so much as a sniff of a nerf.
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Hmm. Interesting idea but i think during normal matchmaking it's not really necessary. And during the post release "everyone wants to play the new killer" phase it would absolutely tank matchmaking times. Both for those who opt to avoid repeating killers and the killer queue time would be way worse than it already is in the post release rush
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091306#Comment_4091306
ooh ill have to try that out for myself
Let me know the verdict. You'll definitely get genrushed a bit but when it pops off it's so funny
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@Rogue11 said:
The spear is fine. It requires skill to aim and gives a fair warning and chance to dodge. The exhaustion add on is bs, as is 25 seconds of haste on a 12 second cooldown when starting every chase with a massive advantage already. The unlimited duration crouchathon is getting extremely old already.
Tbh yeah the spear itself isn't the worst thing, it's definitely dodgeable. But it should slow him a little. Picking up a spear takes zero time and has no animation and he has no cool down after throwing either. Compare it to deathslinger with the long reload time for a single shot that isn't even a guarenteed healthstate on a hit.
My thing is more that the soear power on it's own would make jason a relatively good killer better than other older ranged killers, he straight up outclasses huntress and deathslinger just on his power alone. Add omnipresent evil as well and it's just too much. He needs to be toned down just a bit. Omnipresent evil needs to not grind the game to a standstill and the spear could just do with tuning down a tad.
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I myself am also enjoying pig. Face the darkness is so good on her.
Personally I am just running a full scream build that I like to call: Squeal piggy squeal.
Hex:face the darkness, thwack!, ultimate weapon and phantom fear. With tampered timer and crate of gears.
Even when it doesn't pop the head traps it's actually amazing for rousting survs out identifying which gens to ambush.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091291#Comment_4091291
Mhm, those games are my favourite to be honest. So long as it's not too sweaty to tie it up like that. A stomp in either direction, in my favour or not, is the least fun version of DBD. I don't expect to ever hit the highest level of skill the game has to offer, because quite frankly, the game at the very tippy-top feels like it'd be joyless.
Yh players who play at the highest level don't seem like happy people. Like the streamers I play against who have loads of hours and try hard at the game always give me mad salt after a game. Whereas streamers who are mid at the game and/or just memeing around are much more pleasant after the game.
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I live for the close fought games. They are few and far between but those games where the killer and the survs are matched so equally that thebgame always hangs in the balance right up until the last second. Usually a 2 k with a kill at about 1-2 gens left and another in the end game.
And who doesn't get a solid dopamine hit as surv when you pallet save, a killer whacks the vault etc
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Ha. Plenty of players like that. Imagine being so incensed that you couldn't thake 5 secs to check that the player was running a perk that actually uses lockers.
+1 points for being a fellow inner strength user. Loving that perk atm
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@dogsbollok said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090767#Comment_4090767
Don't you find this overexaggerating? Over a video game, no less.
Of course not. It's a genuine opinion. I tried it once.
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@MilkToast said:
Most mid Killer and apparently he's the new Skull merchant wonder if he'll have the same fate as SM
As I said towards the end of my post. I hope he doesn't get the skull merchant treatment.
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I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy playing against jason. More power to you if you do. But you are in the minority.
I just find playing against him marginally less pleasant than trying to pull my own teeth out with needle nose pliers because that at least comes with a sense of achievement after the fact.
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Yeah not really a fan of adding firearms to dbd. It's not particularly horror themed and would be very hard to balance well. Modern firearms anyway. Slingers spear gun is about as far as I'm happy going.
A musket might not be too bad, some kind of napoleonic zombie/serial killer soldier might be interesting. Slow load time and very inaccurate projectile spread.
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@devoutartist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/468788/when-survivors-encourage-killer-tunneling
i don't fully disagree that being said i wonna point out that not all killers tunnel equally some are better then other in that avenue and that's a thing that on nether sides of the player base wonna even talk about tbh i think that the volatility of the game need to go down on both side in term of tunneling /shorting too much some of the maps (good for low tier killer and creates problem for high tier killers) and gen being a bit longer with out regression perk being too much on the strong side (more gen time the stronger the regression perk become stronger) i do think that there's some base line gameplay need a good think over in term on how volatile the game can be. although im not sure how to fully address it
To a certain extent it's impossible to balance this game well. It is by it's nature an asymmetric game, and the killer is generally the one with the biggest effect on how any given game goes. And the killers vary so wildly in mechanics and power level, then playstyle, if a killer opts to hard tunnel someone out and survs don't play flawlessly then the game will be a loss.
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@SAWII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090204#Comment_4090204
Jason’s ranged attack is absolutely not hit scan lol
Exaggeration for comic effect. It's bloody fast for a dbd projectile. Poor old huntress is being power crept badly
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Update: playing as jason is fun. Spent a minute or two faffing around with my power then got my adept very easily.
Playing against jason absolutely sucks. Hit scan ranged attack plus map traversal and teleports? Sure that's balanced 🙃
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General BM ing. I.e. hitting on hook, the back and forth on a slug, bleeding out, flash clicking, tbagging, sandbagging etc.
And abusive messages obvs.
A lot of people construe playing to win and tactics such as tunneling and slugging for the win as toxic. Which I don't personally think is right. I've played what I felt were close hard fought enjoyable games and then been cussed out afterwards. Like bruh, what do you want? Everyone to let you win all the time? Play according to your personal rulebook for dbd "fairplay?" Nah if I want to win I'm gonna play hard ball. Deal with it.
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Thank god. Now the days can start getting a bit shorter.
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Ah yes, chapter release time. Always a great variety of matches 🙃
I'm about to hit dbd for the first time since jason dropped so I'll report back forthwith
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
A vast majority of the complaints about tunneling are from people who don’t play killer, and you’re never going to convince them because they have never seen it from the other perspective.
Probably. I'm an optimistic soul at heart though. Never know some tribal survivor main might give it a read and think about it. 🙃
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Very, i brought pig recently and scream builds are a lot of fun on her. Once a survivor has a head trap on, making them scream interrupts their progress on a puzzle box. It's definitely a meme build, very hit and miss, good surv teams won't pop gens while ppl have traps on so it's almost useless against swfs. But when it does pop off I cannot adequately describe the devilish glee I experience when I creep after a survivor and repeatedly harass and make them scream until the timer runs out.
Face the darkness is good because it lights and dulls itself so is a lot harder to cleanse. I like to run it with phantom fear and ultimate weapon. And sometimes hex:TOTH if I'm feeling really memey and want to keep Face the darkness up, nice little synergy is the screams also mess with anyone trying to cleanse a totem. A solid gen regression perk if I want to have an outside chance to win without the headtraps popping.
For addons you want one of the bags to increase the box search timer and the purple modded timer add on to decrease the headtraps kill timer. Or you cluld double stack the bag offerings to make it easier to interrupt the searches.
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I finished my demogorgon p100 grind 🥳 and prestiged a couple killers/survivors who weren't prestige 1 yet. Got about 4 mill left so that's waiting for the cakes.
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Tbh i quite enjoy using the cameras. Most people don't bother because they don't want to risk a grab. But if I'm doing a gen I'll jump on a door if someone is in chase and do the reveal. Doesn't take too long.
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I'm happy to see it. Honestly surprised it took this long to get it added to dbd.
I was very ambivalent about the game. Frank stone was cool and I loved the dbd references sprinkled throughout the game. But story was hit and miss for me, shifting timelines constantly was a bit jarring and between the dodgy animation and lacklustre voice acting I found it hard to give a fig about any of the characters.