Gwinty
Gwinty
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2571356#Comment_2571356
Indirectly supporting. I ultimately don't have control over where my money goes. When i buy anything from BHVR. That money could be in some person's paycheck, that could be used for what i would see as horrible things. I just don't see the point of worrying about stuff like that.
I would add that you are also support the good side of BHVR. You are supporting their creative team who most likely had no clue about NFTs, you are supporting their good project like anything they do about pride and representation and you are also paying taxes, supporting schools and other public services.
Like...maybe you are supporting the NFT thing. But you are also support the Ghostface mask that got released this year based on DbDs model that brings joy to people on Halloween. Seeing this black and white is not a good idea this time. This is not Blizzard with their sexual harassment case, this is a more complex issue.
The fact is that you have some control over your money and yes, you should use it. Costumer decisions are important to change the economy and to direct the market into the way we want it.
We should first and formost be mad if we are lied to or if facts where obsurced to us that influenced or decisions as a costumer. Information is key for us to exercise our power and if the information it tained then it is bad.
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The question is who is responsible. Wait for a statment that should come given enough outcry.
However I would not blame the devs as I would not blame the mods on this forum or any streamer that plays DbD. I highly doubt most devs are aware of this situation because let us be serious for a moment: We all know that the dev know very little about their own game and now we are supposed to believe that they know about NFTs? Come on get real.
I will not defend the company on this issue. However I will still stand by things they have done well: The patch coming today looks good and buffs my favourite killer (Ghostface), the new survivor looks fine and I am interested in Boon Totems and Pinhead is a descent Killer that I enjoy playing (good ability, good gameplay, nice chase music, good perks). I will not discredit this because it is all true for me. Still that NFT thing is annoying as ######### and they should quit it. I want my next DLC with a "NFT free"-lable or I am not buying it.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2571157#Comment_2571157
An NFT is comparable to a piece of paper that says you own a particular image. However, the piece of paper isn't legally binding, and the amount of power required to print it was about as much as an entire household consumes in 2.5 days. So in short, it's a massive waste of resources for something that only holds value to other people who buy into the NFT market.
If that sounds like a really bizarre concept, you're not getting confused, you have a proper grasp of the situation. You understand, roughly, what an NFT is. The concept itself is just a really dumb idea.
Well, this sums up NFTs pretty well. Upvoted.
However it is kind of a parody on ownership and how people regognize ownership of digital goods. NFTs show clearly that even thou you proclaim that you own something unless it is in an accepable way to most of the other people you deal with you are just a laughing stock to everybody else.
Honestly when you look at it this way...this whole NFT thing in DbD offered tons of educational value to people aside from being a motivation to look up blockchain technology (which offers some good ideas), the difference in proof of work and proof of stake (interesting concepts) and the values some people hold up (NFTs are a laughing stock). Also this shows once more that people do not like being lied to no matter who they are.
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2571063#Comment_2571063
But why would you not play him if you own him anyway?
Like you said, you had no power in knowing the truth the time being so it's not your fault for owning him now right?
I just hope this doesn't ensue in a witch hunt against all Pinheads now.
I for one will not stop playing Pinhead. I have him and I like playing him. The money is already spend and I do not see how I "support" NFTs just by playing a character that has a NFT. Worse I would just have paid for a service that I am not using resulting in BHVR making the money off me without even having the expenses.
I hope that people realize that not playing Cenobite will not result in anything other than a less diverse Killer roster and lost money. Also there are probably many people who are not aware of NFTs and just want to enjoy their game while sending survivors to brazil with his mori...
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@Seanzu said:
???
They sold the DLC based on the NFT before they ever announced that there was an NFT involved, the majority of people that would buy DLC have already bought in and now unfortunately help funded an NFT.
Had I know before the DLC was released that NFTs were involved I'd have never ordered it, but of course they announced it a solid month and a half after releasing it.
Wasn`t this the other way around?
That they made the DLC and then it got a NFT? I also do not think that the DLC buyers helped to found the NFT. That would be produced without even a sindle dollar going out for the DLC purchase. First the ingame models where created and then they got handed over acording to a contract and where made into a NFT by a different company. This could very well be without the devs involvment...
Now your reason is "involvment with NFTs" and this is the case. Here BHVR should have come clean. Costumers need clear informations to make educated decisions. I would have prefered to get noticed about this earlier as well...but unfortunatly there is no "free from NFT" label...
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@Foxy_Teltac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570975#Comment_2570975
I hope that's what happens, it'd knock some morals back into the devs
Maybe this was not even the devs decision. Could very likely be a decision made by somebody higher up the ranks.
In order to incorporate something as an NFT you do not need the consense of the artist or developer. This is why art theft is a problem with NFTs.
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Art theft is a problem with NFTs and developers are no different from this. The problem is that you do not need any special data or other application in order to turn something into an NFT. As such is is quit possible that the developers where not involved in this and maybe did not even know about this. They just created the models, music, voicelines and so on and then added them to the game. Some time later the company took the files and handed them to the NFT creators without even asking the devs. This could have well gone over their head with no consens to this part of the project.
I do not know about canadian law about this but in the US most devs have no rights to their created content. In europe it is the opposide as a dev has a inrevocable right to their product and can only have a license agreement about unlimited usage of a creative work of art. Maybe some canadian can clear this...
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@SlothGirly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570908#Comment_2570908
consumerism at its finest. what is caring about the enviornment?
The joke is that the consumer has the power to change how companies thread the enviroment. You do not have to buy it if it is not fitting to you moral and enviromental standarts. However for this you need clear information about the product hence why BHVRs communication is a big issue.
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@Thund3rstruck57 said:
Even if they weren't bad for the environment, NFTs have become a go-to hotbed for money laundering. Crime syndicates all over the world use this market to clean the money gained from all sorts of crimes against humanity like the drug trade, sex/human trafficking, murder, etc. BHVR partnering with an NFT company at all (and then lying about it) was a horrible decision. Getting Pinhead in the game was NOT worth supporting this market.
Could you provide sources for these claims?
As far as I am concerned NFTs and Cryptos are not that big of a deal for money laundering. The main currency used is the good old greenback $. Thus condeming a currency based on its misuse should also lead to condeming the usual suspects like dollar, yen, yuan or euro.
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@SlothGirly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570898#Comment_2570898
NFTs are uphold on the same blockchains as crypto, and they are powered and processed by the same computers. They are directly linked, and so NFTs are quite literally killing the planet. A single transaction of an NFT with Ethereum consumes enough energy to power an average US household for two and a half days. To say NFTs aren't part of that same problem as bitcoin is just a bit of misunderstanding.
Maybe you missed my point. We agree about the enviromental issues, I only disagree about the illegal acivities. You should go for the stronger argument that are not that easy to debunk. Maybe you could add art theft as an issue to this or that NFTs are not even offering the benefits of, say, Bitcoin where the token ist striktly limited.
They are like traveling for fun on fossile fuel, by plane or by car...just a "fun" thing that produces pollution. Because even if you use green energy for them that energy could be used elsewhere.
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@SlothGirly said:
OP, so you're telling everybody to not get up in arms over the fact, the developers have come out in support of NFTs after implying they have nothing to do with it. that they only "provide them with in-game models as well as Chapter keys. They are free to use these however they see fit as the rightful owners of these characters." to just a few days later saying "Behaviour worked with Boss Protocol over several months to adapt in-game models for use as NFTs and approved them prior to the release of Pinhead in DbD." isn't deception?
There is clear a clear mismatch in the message of both these statements which everybody agrees was to intentionally mislead the community. to go from "we give them the models as the owners" to "we made special models specifically for NFTs" is clearly deceitful.
And if that wasn't enough. Do you really think it's ok to support a company that promotes and supports the use of NFTs? which run on blockchains that consume more power than Denmark and contribute to global warming more than New Zealand? Along with the fact, endorsing NFTs, endorses crypto which is used is some of the shadiest business practises online, from insider trading to sex trafficking. Nobody in there right mind should support this more. And to try defend it is abhorrent.
A lie will remain a lie.
And even thou they did not tell us exactly that they used that vagueness to their benefit in oder to mislead their community. Clear communication is very important when it comes to community management and should not be underestimated. This is either a slack or they wanted it to be this way. All future messages from BHVR will be doubt and rightfully so.
I do however think that you are putting the blame on crypto here just to bandwagon when it comes to illegal activities. Would you condemn the $ or the € just because they are also used as payment methods for this kind of illegal activity? Crypto at least is just a token for payment nothing more and nothing less, a tool if you will.
There are stronger arguments to be made about this. Money laundering is not one.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570809#Comment_2570809
All the other things you mention: Cars, holiday flights, oil production, soy production, all of these things have tangible benefits that are weighed against their detriment. We do need to live, after all, which is why we need food production, why we need communication services, transport, and even relaxation.
NFTs have these drawbacks, but their 'benefit' is the pyramid scheme. NFTs hold absolutely zero value outside the NFT market. They do nothing. They mean nothing. They are nothing. Only within the scope of the pyramid scheme do they have any semblance of value.
It's the worst of both worlds. You get a pyramid scheme AND environmental damage.
It is kinda amusing that we only talk about how much we dislike this technology and only disagree about how bad it is. For me it is a annoyance that they try to implement a "solution" for a "problem" that never existed. Even without the enviromental issues NFTs have nothing to offer and only creat problems. Art theft being a major factor as well as the problem that unlike Bitcoin as an example they are not even limited. There is no need to use a blockchain for something that can be duplicated over and over.
I would argue that holiday flights are another example. They only offer the merit of bringing joy to people. I could argue that NFTs also bring joy to the people who like them. Thus both would have the same benefits while producing enviromental issues (cerosin is quit bad) same if you drive your car around the country just for fun. As such I would make the case that "fossile fueled transportation for fun" is on the same level as an NFT. You are right about the other things thou as soy is needed food while oil is just a product that is also required for things other than transportation.
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BHVR should come clear about this. Apologies for the inconvience and make a statment about their future stance on NFTs and licensing agreements with such clauses. We should not be unforgiving but we should demand them to come clear about this and tell us how much they got from this and how much was forced onto them.
The thing is that not always something bad comes from those agreements. Remember the Ghostface? They now made new masks based on the DbD model for the red ghostface and more are coming. This makes for a pretty nice halloween constume for many people and makes them happy.
Not every time something like this comes off it is bad.
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You need to think about it this way: When we produce "green" energy with renewables we need to burn less fossile fuels. When we need more energy we need to burn more fossile fuel. So while yes it is possible and also happening that cryptos use renewables because they are cheap they need to be considered as dirty as long as those renewables could be used elsewhere.
As an example: You have a coal oven to produce energy. You have you usual houshold and power it with coal. Now you think: I want to make cryptos and be more eviromental friendly. So you buy solar panels that cover about 20% of your usual energy consumption but 100% of you crypto consumption. Has you enviromental footprint changed? No. Would it change if you were not doing that crypto stuff? Yes by 20%.
Also...NFTs have other issues: https://thefinanser.com/2021/03/the-case-against-nfts.html/
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570745#Comment_2570745
It'd still be a pyramid scheme that's built on hurting the environment, so it'd still be awful, but at least it wouldn't be apocalyptically awful.
Just wanted to clear this. I see the pyramide sheme, art theft and the hurt to the enviroment becase it wasts energy. However I see other things far more harmful to the enviroment (cars, holiday flights, oil production via fracking, burned rainforest for soja) that are more common and dangerous than a NFT based on proof of stake. And the pyramide sheme is only a problem for people who do not look into this things and...well, you need to put some effort into your own decisions... The point I do not see standing is money laundaring (that is done mostly in normal currency).
This is a good thing about this whole situation is that is rises the awareness about NFTs and blockchain and how that impacts the enviroment. Because to tell the truth, prior to this I only knew about cryptos and blockchains but not about NFTs...
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@FeelsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570623#Comment_2570623
The exact same here. Got a steam giftcard for my birthday a few days ago and used it to buy auric cells for the new tome and upcoming skins...🤦
Well I know that you maybe feel bad now. But please don't. When you made that decision DbD probably just announced the new patch and the new survivor. Both are good work and would be worth spending some bucks on. You could not know about the future as you probably have no super powers.
Now when you think about spending those auric cells think about it this way: Does BHVR get any more money from you buying something now?
The answere is usualy "no" because you already spend the money. Also BHVR does not get any money from you playing the game right now. If anything they lose money if you play the game without spending more on them because they have to run servers and service. Not playing would actualy benefit them if you do not plan to spend any money...
Maybe hold onto those cells. But not playing the game would just be: BHVR gets your money without providing any addition service. A big plus for them.
@ThiccBudhha said:
I feel stupid, I already bought some auric cells anticipating a certain skin, and then I find out I basically cucked myself, and now all of this about NFTs? Feels bad man.
Same for you...
You made that decision based on the facts back then. Nothing bad about it. How likely was it that this NFT thing was real? No very likely.
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@HealsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570211#Comment_2570211
I guarantee you, if Hellraiser was a full chapter with Kristy Cotton too, they'd both be made into NFTs. You might be one of the largest trolls on the forums, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend. And the NFTs are everyone's enemy.
I also think so. Either both go NFT or non. Both would run under the same contract between BHVR and the license holder and thus BHVR would have to hand out their in-game models. I would love a Kristy Cotton survivor (or Pinhead) thou...
That said I am against adding any NFT to the game. I do not care about any weird crypto things but this would add another barrier to the game that would discourage new players. BHVR should think about making a good atonement for this sin...lying to the community is just the worst.
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@GuyFawx said:
Whether its good or bad publicity and discussion is always beneficial to a company as it causes more interaction and intrigue and keeps the product on peoples mind
The good old "there is no bad publicity"?
I do not know about this. While publicity is good for the most part you have to keep in touche with your community. For this reason I do not think that the NFT thing will be the bad fallout but rather that BHVR was misleading their community about it. People can take some bad things but getting lied to is mostly unacceptable even over most cultural borders.
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@Exult said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570692#Comment_2570692
You're taking this unnecessarily personal.
Please excuse me if I was too rude. Yes, I am taking this personal as I was hyped about this character and the gift from my friend meant quit a lot to me. Taking this away would impact me and make me feel bad.
@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570706#Comment_2570706
The problem with NFTs is that they take more energy than a household to produce.
It's screwing over the planet and, by extension, the human race, all for a quick buck in a pyramid scheme.
So...would NFTs be acceptable for you if the system would use proof of stake?
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@Crowman said:
People are speculating that DBD might get banned from Steam since Steam recently updated their rules to ban NFT/Crypto games, but the rule added wouldn't apply to DBD in the first place.
Unless Valve somehow cares that in-game codes to unlock in-game content can be gotten by purchasing NFTs or BHVR decides to integrate NFTs into DBD so people can exchange them via the in-game store, Valve has no reason to remove DBD as it's not breaking any of it's rules.
I do not think that they would go this far. As BHVR said they hand out code to their partners when they do a license. There is no further control about what is done after they hand out the codes. As such it would be quit unfair to judge the publisher based on what happens with those codes after they have been handed out.
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@jabberdragon said:
Looking at it from the perspective of the backlash it has caused and the upcoming mid-chapter release alongside Halloween events, I think BHVR knew.
They knew back when they misled the community into believing there were no NFTs in the game. They knew that announcing that they were working with NFTs in any capacity was going to cause a massive player response. They knew that people would probably call for a boycott.
And they knew that people would probably be itching to buy in to a new tome, buy more Auric Cells for Halloween cosmetics, and be ready to play for the Halloween event.
You can't boycott the game now, because FOMO says this LIMITED TIME TOME will be gone before BHVR even addresses what they've done. You can't boycott now because you'll be missing BLOODPOINTS or something. You can't boycott, and BHVR doesn't have to change a damn thing about their game, because this is literally the only option you have for an asymmetrical horror game you've pumped hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours into.
BHVR knew, and they are exploiting all of us.
The thing is that you can boycott this. BHVR does not feel any negative impact when you just stop playing the game as such you can play the game. Same if you already own those Auric Cells from the tome befor that. They are not making addition money off this because they either already got the money or there was never any money to make.
The only things you need to avoid are new purchases with real money. No DLC, no new Cells, no new character or merch. This way you can starve them off the income while at the same time playing the game.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2569163#Comment_2569163
I just had a gander on otogomes twitter:
They seem like tin-foil, crack-pot conspiracy theorists! Tweets about 9/11 not being a terrorist attack and anti-vaxx bullshit... they are very strong, wacko theories. And BHVR teamed with them?
That's a horrendously bad partnership they have there!
I honestly do not get how this otogomes and BossProtocol are linked together. As far as I see this guy is just somebody who likes cryptos. Maybe a conspirancy theorist who loves cryptos, but I fail to see the link to BossProtocol and BHVR. Please enlight me about the connection as I do not get it.
@HealsBadMan said:
Update for all: A recent pic of the DLC's reviews on Steam
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6A2K1BWY8J94/dbdsteamhellraiserstats-jpg.jpg
If you haven't already, make your voice heard and give your opinion on Steam. One way or another, BHVR will learn what they got themselves into. #DeadByBoycottNFTs
Shame that this is the way because the DLC itself is pretty good. Pinhead is a fine character and fun to play. But oh well, no way out, right?
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Steam will not take the game away from you and is also not going to remove it from your content. As far as I know Steam offers you a lifelong right to the games you bought on their site including all DLCs and even if the game gets removed unless that very game contains illegal content.
As such the question would be: Why should you get your money back? You still have the game, you can still play it and nothing gets taken away from you.
I could be wrong about some of this but as far as I remember this is Steams policy.
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@jabberdragon said:
Personally I am fully willing to have Pinhead and all Hellraiser content removed from the game - not "removed from the store," but deleted, taken out, stripped from people who already own it, completely and entirely, if it means that it doesn't support NFTs in the slightest.
To say that I am willing to never, ever see another crossover if it means no more NFTs is an understatement. If New Line Cinema or whoever winds up owning Jason says "We'll let you put Jason in DbD but you're going to advertise our NFT," no Jason. If tomorrow Konami was like "We're making a Pyramid Head NFT and we want you to do a promotion for it," delete Pyramid Head.
No NFTs. Ever. Not once, not "technically not in the game," nothing. No tolerance for NFTs in gaming.
The fact that you are talking about deleting something I own and enjoy while you are probably not affected makes this quit easy for you.
Pinhead is a well designed character and is fun to play for me. I even received him as a gift from a friend. As such you are in fact talking about stripping a gift from me.
Do not get me wrong, I do not support NFTs. But I fail to see how a character I own in a game is a problem. This is like telling me my action figure should get burned because there is a smutty picture of that character on a website supported by the publisher...
@ThiccBudhha said:
Or... can we just have licensed content without nfts? Lol.
And this would be the best way to do it.
After this outrage BHVR should search for a way to redeem themself and then go on without NFTs.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2570097#Comment_2570097
They straight up misled (or flat-out lied to) the community regarding their involvement.
This is the biggest problem for me.
NFTs are questionable regarding the enviroment but they do not bother me more than Dogecoin or any other weird crypto stuff (for me its just people playing stupid games to win stupid prices...), blockchain is an interesting tech that can have some good applications (not relaying on a central institution can have it`s merits) and so on.
But that they misled their community is a pretty big offense and impacts me more.
@QwQw : What was it for you about this NFT thing that led to your decision? Just courios... and what would it take for you to play again?
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@Taingaran said:
In my opinion, the problem is not only in the MMR but also in the opinion of the killers. Most of the time, the killers were doing 3k and 4k. But now the rules have changed. Now 2k is normal, in a sense, a victory. And 3k and 4k means that you tried very hard. Or the survivors were doing nonsense))
Well, then survivors should not complain about either getting Killers who bring their best add-ons and perks (Ruin/Pop/NoeD) and their best Killer to the match. No complains anymore about Tombestone Piece Myers, Engineers Fang Cenobite, All Seeing Wraith, Chilly filled Bubba...you know, the fun stuff...
There is no casual mode so there is no "go easy" for the Killer who wants to performe at her best.
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Lockers and people who know how to use them are Bubbas weakness.
When I play Bubba and a good player knows how to abuse lockers suddenly you worry more about them then about pallets. Against bad player you can ram youself into the locker to trigger a tantrum an 7/10 bad players will leave the locker early and get insta downed while 2/10 get grabbed out of the locker because the leave to late. The 1/10 survivor who knows the locker timing is the one you need to worry about they are going to bully you to no end with those crimson devils.
And thanks for the tip it is realy useful for any player who did not know this and it needs little to no coordination.
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Well how do you want to advertise playing a Killer?
That you are the caretaker of the survivors who's job it is to make their live a little bit more miserable? No, no. Remember that video is not only a tutorial but also an advertisement for the game.
That said this is a beginners guide. If you consider both Killers and Survivors who just start the game than jes, the Killer is the power role an apex predator surrounded by prey. @GentlemanFridge pointed this out already and I can only empathise this: This is aimed at newer players. Here you can win games with 0 perks Hillbilly and Agitation Trapper and the worst perk in existence is NoeD with the worsted opponent being Freddy because you get confused by his lullaby and his teleportation.
Judging by your picture you are no Beginner. Make this again, but this time pit baby-Dwight, Meghead and Blendette with only their personal perks and no more than 50 hourse into the game against that Cenobite...
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@ElusivePukka said:
What's the 16 perk, 4 item, 8 add-on, 4 Map Offering loadout you realize you're facing and just sigh because you're stuck with it?
Is it the Resilient/Spine Chill, Dead Hard, Prove Thyself, Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Unbreakable/Soul Guard, Iron Will meta squad with BNPs on Ormond?
Is it the ClickyBoi fan club running Head On, Deception, Dance With Me combo suites on The Game?
Personally, there's only one thing I truly fear: the Cheryl wild-card. You never know if she's good or bad until that first pallet, but a good Cheryl is worth 5 DS hits.
I fear three things:
- One or more Spinechill user with communication (discord) - I play Ghostface. This makes him unplayable or at least a few times harder to play.
- A survivor that knows how to run long wall jungle gyms on the corn maps. I hate those tiles as I can wast so much time trying to get a hit here. I rather run shack 5 times than this tile. Even worse when it is chainable into a hay tile or the shack.
- A survivor that knows how to run the house of pain on Batham or HaddonFun.
I can deal with flashlights, I can tollerate Head On, I fear no Bunny Feng or Sprayer Nea, but those who can run long walls or house of pain...urgh...
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@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2561139#Comment_2561139
Have you tried a hoarder Franklin's demise build yet?
I did but it is not as much fun for me.
I get the appeal and it is an interesting build to play or play against but I like my build more just for personal reasons. However I enjoy Cenobites bringing this build because I finaly get something other then Pop/Ruin/Corrupt/Tinkerer. Makes for a nice experience.
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I am excited to see the new survivor entering the fog. And to be fair I am looking forwards to the Boon totems and see how survivors will play with them.
I just hope they will bring some different cosmetics because usually I dislike to tunnel a survivor, but if they bringt the same skin 4 times it takes to much effort and is to distracting from the flow of the game to look ot for the name of the player. I will bring my usual, play bunch of Killer and vary between Ghostface, Cenobite and maybe some Billy or Myers.
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@kyogul said:
I never really understood the lack of ire for stand still mind games with Spirit when it's basically tantamount to M2 fakes with other killers (Demo, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, etc.) in terms of "outplaying" based on no skill.
Personally I play Spirit and while I'm not a comp player or anything who can always tell based on animation if she's actually phasing or not, common sense normally makes it obvious when she is and isn't phasing and I don't mind it nearly as much as M2 fakes.
M2 fakes on the other hand are basically free zoning for no effort, especially with a killer like Deathslinger where there is no realistic reaction time to ADS and then being shot.
It is not the "standing still" thing alone that bothers the players. It is that you could not tell if she is using her power.
Demogorgon makes noise and opens its head. Slinger aims at you and gives an audio que. Pyramide Head slammes his knife into the ground. Nemesis pulls out the tentacle. All have clear tells when you are using their power making them not a 50/50 coin flip but rather an educated guess.
Also all of those characters lose speed when they are using their ability and finaly when they mess up the survivor gains a huge advantage. Death Slinger misses? To bad he is now 110% speed and has to reload, enough time to get to cover. Pyramide Head missed? To bad he now has a recovery animation during which he stands still. Demo misses? He is now in Nebaska and searching for his next victim.
Spirit messes up the stand still? Well...she just stood there. Now she still has her power and can chase.
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It is a fine perk.
You have to manage it and you can lose stacks when you play bad. Remember you need at least 4 stacks in order to down the obesssion. Also you can not tunnel the obsession as you should build up your stacks again. And finaly it does not work for every Killer or needs even more percise management on them.
Demogorgon is a good example. Yes, you should use this perk on him. But you only get the full value when you manage your Shred ability and down the obsession with at least one Shred. If you missmanage this and can not hit Shred you will only get about 70% of this perks value.
Same for Nemesis or Pig. Other Killers have to be even more careful: You hit the obsession but could not finish the chase because you lost your target, got distracted or had other things to do? To bad because now you just wasted 2 stacks.
This perk is good as it is now.
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Rescently?
Pyramide Head. Survivors avoid torment at all costs or I do not have to think about Unbreakable, Borrow Time or Deceisive Strike. Once tormented they have to be afraid of loosing the chase or they get caged or executed on the spot. Also you can shoot through walls, pallets and windows to punish.
I am by no means good with him and just play him from time to time.
But out of all the Killers, including Ghostface and Cenobite who are my most played Killers right now, Pyramide Head give the most powerful feeling.
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@JohnWeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/287012/actually-sbmm-did-a-pretty-good-job-imo
The game is globally total garbage. The game design is flawed to a point i don't understand how some features, map, perks are still in the game.
Honestly, at that point, i would really like to discuss with the chief game designer to see how the ######### he/she could have validated so much bullshit into one single game.
- Half the maps are completely survivor sided to a point you can't do anything as a killer when you face a competent team : 0 line of sight, buildings, pallets, windows, objects everywhere
- Some perks are broken and have too much a game changer power : Noed, Devour hope for exemple
- Hex regressing perks are useless and are cleansed in 30 seconds at a fairly good mmr
- Fact that survivors can all equip full meta perks is dumb and unbalance the game even more
- Aim assist on PC that ######### your aim up half the time
- Survivors' items are broken aswell, unbalancing the game from 70/30 to 90/10
Atm i'm learning nurse. I'm terrible with her and so i'm bad everytime in any circumstances but it allows me to clearly constate the game's flaws, especially because i'm so bad that everything is exacerbated. Some feqtures are here for years now, unfixed even though we have asked the devs to fix their damn game.
What i saw is that killer queues are now instant no matter the time you play while as a survivor you have to wait for 10 minutes (EU region). It shows how the killer playerbase is massively quitting.
Also, their 50% kill rate is bullshit. I have a 50% kill rate, i get stomped one trial with 0k to 1k then i stomp the whole team the next one with 3k to 4k. Every trials i play are totally unbalanced and unfun but averaging them makes it look "balanced" on the paper.
With DbD we are far, far, really far from the quality standard fixed by Valorant, Counter Strike, L4D, old Battlefield etc...
I would not compare DbD with symetrical games. Matchmaking and MMR in games like League are easier than for DbD because of the nature of the game. You can just throw in 5 people on either side who are closly even in MMR and expect the match to go a normal way. This is something that can not be done for DbD.
That is way this game is not "garbage". It has issues as any other game. Just that asymetrical games have other issues that symetrical games.
The decline in players you show has multiple reasons. First of all we had an all time high with the release of Nemesis. This killer is a powerhouse of marketing and has no doubt attracted many players to the game. Then the pandemic is coming down thus enabeling more activities over all aside from sitting at home. Also Cenobite was well executed but not that hyped compared to other Killers. He was releases and now we face the usual mid-chapter decay in player numbers.
I would argue that the playerbase is still shrinking because of SBMM. However not as much as the curves suggest. Maybe a re-evaluation would be in due after the release of the mid-chapter patch.
You pointed out some good things however: Hex: Ruin is not a good solution for map size and Killers. The slowdown should be individual per Killer in order to adjust their performance. A Killer like Myers should have other slowdown as a Killer like Nurse.
Also the problem for the Killer side is that you do not have any good slowdown on the base Killers. Hex: Ruin and Pop are the most prominent perks for slowdown. Neither is avaiable for new player thus making the entry barrier higher than it should be.
The map problem is also down to this. A big map should impact both sides the same way: Survivor have longer travle time when going from generator to generator and saving other from the hook. This should in theory impact them just as much as a Killer. A fact is that it does not.
This however comes down to spawn points. Maybe you saw that video of Scott Jund elaboration about spawns? He used Leath Pursuier to show how survivors spawn and how that impacted his match. The conclusion was that a spawn where all survivor start seperated is a problem. The Killer can start one chase but 3 generators or 1 1/2 generator and 2 hexes will pop, leading the Killer to a very bad match. Now if you loose because you made a bad decision this would be fine. But even with a perfect chase the Killer will be in an uphill battle leading to a loss.
Quick messures to fix this?
Well, change spawn points and add a slowdown perk for new players. Lower the entry barrier and make Killer a more satisfying role to play.
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I think in the end the main issue right now is the rate of decay which comes down to adjustments to the numerical values that are asigned to a "Kill" or an "Escape".
The question should be how often does a "good performance" of a survivor lead to an escape compared to how good is a Killer getting a kill. As soon as you adjust the numbers a bit the system will result in better quality.
Also...maybe they should add a "wonky wensday" or something like that where SBMM is disabled and everybody just goes at whatever other side is avaiable at the time. Just for funs sake.
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Well, as everybody is just adding their worst I will add my best so far:
I was playing Cenobite in the swamp running the usual build (Plaything, Scourge Hook, Deadlock, Brutal Strengh). I had 4 competent survivors who were working together. I got some nasty flashlight saves but also some pretty sweet chains down and even thou the match ended with 4 people escaping I felt it was a fair game. I was pretty exited, there was not a second that was not tense without feeling unfair and clearly the match could have gone either way.
In the end just gg wp from both sides. Good manners and they just left.
Good game, good survivors, had fun.
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@Sluzzy said:
First match of the day:
I queued as survivor against a Wraith that brought a map for the Police Station and his build proceeded to be as follows: Ruin, Devour Hope, Undying, NO Way Out!
Also used two overpowered addons: Silent Bell and All Seeing! The survivors on my team I actually recognized, very experienced that has played for a long time. We had no chance to escape!
The Wraith was spamming his silent bell and was downing everyone in little time. We didn't even find the first hex but managed to complete 2 gens before his Devour activated and it was game over.
Why do killers have these kind of broken overpowered advantages yet things like keys are completely destroyed? These survivors I played with had actual thousands of hours. Can you imagine if we were all new against this kind of Wraith.
How was it actually said in a public fashion that keys made killers feel unfair? As survivor, the match I just experienced was NOT fair!
This game needs to stop hand holding killers and constantly nerfing survivors. Devour Hope needs a nerf and so do all Hex perks. Killers such as Wraith should not have guaranteed wins on these maps with busted setups. If killers can end the match early with broken setups, survivors should be able to end the match early. What is fair is fair.
If that wasn't enough, the Wraith forced the last person to bleed to death and spamming his overpowered bell.
Fix your game and make it fair.
Well, riddle me this: How often did you play on RPD?
Even with your thousands of hourse by the way this map is designed you can not possible have as much knowledge about totem spawns as you do on other maps.
Also you shame Devoure Hope which is one of the better hex perks by design as it discouraged camping and tunneling to a good degree. You should if anything, shame Hex: Ruin which probably had a bigger impact on your game overall.
Wraith is by nature capable of scaring a survivor of a generator, get a hit and then change targets. The chased survivor will not notice this until Wraith is already on the next survivor doing the same. This juggeling amplifys Ruins potential thus ruining your game with tons and tons of regression.
Silent Bell is also a good add-on but it is a iridescent. As such the chance of encountering a Wraith with this is pretty slim to begin with. All Seeing is a problem and should go, easy as that. I play Wraith, I know how studpid this is and no, we do not need All Seeing with the current Wraith.
You complain about Keys getting a nerf and the game doing everything for Killers?
Well, you choose to ignor Boon totems who are coming and the buff to pallets that gave priority to the survivors action over the Killers action. This was by all means a buff to survivors as it will prevent you from getting hit once your input for dropping the pallet is on the way. Even at the expense of Killers getting the visual and audio que for a hit without actualy getting the healthstate off the survivor.
The game buffs and nerfs both sides right now.
Spirit and Wraith get nerfs, while Ghostface and Billy get buffs. Keys get a nerf while boons are coming in.
Right now we are at a pretty good spot.
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@kaeru said:
I think it's impossible to make this game scary at this point.
Even if we remove terror radius from all killers. Even if we make thicker fog. Even if we make maps pitch dark. Even if we make killers have basekit devour hope with 5 stacks. Even if you make jump scares pop up every couple of minutes.
All that will make the game more annoying and not scary.
You naturally can't feel the terror sitting in comfy chair and playing a game when you already get used to all its tricks.
I think we can at least try to make it easier to immers yourself in the game.
DbD will never be scary for people who do not want to be scared. However those who want to breath in the atmosphere need some, well, atmosphere to breath in.
Horror is a hard genre. You can see this by looking at movies: It is easier to make a good superhero movie these days than to make a good horror. I believe we both would come up with more than ten descent action or romance movies befor we even got 5 descent horror movies from the last year.
@GeneralV said:
Ok, so this was a pain to find.
There was a similar thread here some time ago, and this is what I commented there.
My opinion remains the same:
There is an easy solution and a hard solution.
The easy one consists of everyone buying a time machine and returning to 2017. Problem solved, DBD is scary again.
The hard one consists of working with what we currently have. So, let us start:
1- Maps and ambience
We are starting with the obvious, and so I shall state the obvious: reworked maps are absolute garbage on every single goddamn aspect, this one included. Crotus Prenn is the best, yet saddest example of this: a map whose ambience was top tier got transformed into an empty wasteland.
My idea is simply erasing the stupid Realm Beyond and return the maps to what they once were. However, I imagine this is out of the equation to the devs, so we would have to work to make the garbage more tolerable. And I suppose it can be done, with basically 2 things:
-Fog: We need more Fog. It is an extremely important element in DBD, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, which somehow the game currently lacks. We would need something like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WTMRHL7BH048/image.png
-Lighting: Lighting is something which, undeniably, got worse throughout the years. The Realm Beyond merely kicked an already dead horse. The image above shows what the lighting should look like, which is basically 2017 levels. Alternatively, the devs can bring this precious treasure back:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MYD69QWC535J/bringitback.png
2- Killers
Next we are going to what makes the game truly scary, the killers themselves. And I think we can divide the killers into 3 types: scary, neutral, and not scary.
-Scary killers are the ones who are scary by themselves and do not depend on the maps for their spookiness factor. In my honest opinion, during DBD`s golden age of spookiness the scariest killers were Freddy and Michael, mainly because of how their powers worked. Michael still plays the same, so everything is okay with him.
Freddy`s scary factor came from the way he approached survivors, something that he now lacks. Give him his old power back and he can rule the Fog alongside Michael, in a spooky diarchy.
Other killers, such as Doctor, are also members of this category, but not nearly as scary as those 2 kings.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NQ38P91VX9AS/image.png
(Don`t question this image)-Neutral killers are the ones who end up depending on maps to be scary, such as Trapper and Hillbilly. However, keep in mind that those killers were designed with the old ambience in mind, and if it was to return I believe these killers would automatically be in a good spot.
-Killers who are not scary are an eternal problem, because not much can be done about them. Legion, Trickster, Deathslinger do not have what makes a horror icon a...well, horror icon. The ambience changing around them should make them somewhat tolerable, but the experience they provide will never be the same as the other 2 categories.
Not to mention that those killers are annoying by themselves, so there is that.
3- Survivors
The scary factor of the Survivor experience depends on the other 2 items, so there isn`t much to talk about here. However, something worth mentioning are the animations. Old animations made the survivors look scared are paranoid, while new animations make them look weird.
What should be done here is obvious. Revert it.
4- Menus
Last but not least, we have the menus. And they should return to the old style. Period.
If you don`t know what I am talking about:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HGSPF8318TU8/image.png
It doesn`t really need to look exactly like this...but something close to it would be nice.
5- Final thoughts
And I believe that is it! Now, I`ve talked about what I think would be the best way to make DBD scary again, but this is all my opinion.
I agree with many points on this. The maps are sometimes not very good and are a bit of a wastland. Maybe we did not notive that through the fog with the old maps but right now you can see it. This makes maps like the Tompson House even more painful because they show you that the devs can make something that is not empty.
I disagree with your point about the light. I think bright maps can be scary too depending on the way they are designed. It comes down to how much you see and how much is obscured from your vision in game. The corn maps are a good example: They obscure the vision unless you are on a hill or some other high point. This makes for a more tense atmosphere.
For me Autoheaven is the worst example of this: The map is darker than any corn map, yet it is far less cool because you can see the Killer coming from miles away.
This is however not to discourage the use of fog. Fog can exist in many different shapes and not just as a dark cloud. White fog can be just as obscuring as any "dark" version. However fog offerings should overall have more meaning. Right now they are a joke.
The Killers overall are fine. Most of them are a good piece of art some even got better skins. Think about Hag with her Birch skin or Doctor with the Look See (crypt just know how to do them) or Blight. Yes, Killers like Deathslinger and Trickster are not that scary but we have to note that it is quit hard to stand up to a true legend of Horror like Myers. The latest addition, Pinhead, however once again is a pretty good one with the Chatterer skin being a very good legendary.
Killers like Legion are at the brink. Legion could use a better chasing theme and a better power. There is just nothing scary about a Killer who can not down you even thou he hunts you. Deep wounds is just not a scary status and mending is merely a chore to be done. Compare Legion to a Killer like the Plague who emits are far greater terror with her infection and her secondary power.
And some Killers are just oddballs. Take my favourite Ghostface as an example. I think he is a very good Killer, good power nice theme. However is he scary? There are people who get jumpscared and terrorized quit easy by him and some who do not care. Well, I guess those Killers are just personal tast.
I agree with the survivors. The models are far less paranoid and scary. Even thou the new wounded animations and walking cycles are better. Also the crawling is better however I would suggest that the steering should be reduced to prevent that silly spinning on the ground.
I would like to add however that we still miss one thing: Blood on the cloths. Survivors who start the trial should look more clean than those who got hit by a killer. There shoudl be a "dirt-level" for those occasions...
And finaly...well it comes down to immersion.
Sure it helps to turn down the lights and watch Halloween at night but if you watch it with an annoying goofball friend who will point out how unrealistic or bad something is every five minutes...well...then even this classic can be ruined.
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What the hell...
Please structure your posts a bit more it is kinda hard to read when everything is just a single big paragraph.
However I would like to say that I am not feeling to bad as a Killer.
My boy Ghostface gets a buff where he needs it with his recovery time. Maybe now I can start bringing different add-ons. Trapper who is a huge fan favorite is getting a buff too that adresses his most pressing issue (carrying two traps), Pig finaly gets some other interesting add-ons which was also highly demanded. And even Plague gets some quality of life changes, Hillbilly some slightly better add-ons maybe finaly bringing him a bit more joy and even Michael gets some love and better add ons.
This is overall pretty good. Not to mention that Killers get a buff to Blood Favor and Third Seal, two very underwhelming perks that could get a lot better now and open up some interesting play.
Sure they nerf Deathslinger which is kinda sad. However their reasoning this time is quit sound as he had no lullaby (the only ranged Killer without such a thing) and also his counterplay was not existing prior to this update. Did you know that you get an audio warning when he aims at you? I did not because Slinger could insta-shot. This gets removed.
Spirit also gets nerfed because she was not interactive. This is a common complain and one that even I as a Spirit enthusiast can get behind. Most Spirit players hated that there was only a coin flip or that there was such a thing as the "standing-still-mindgame". Also her add-ons where quit overtuned and offered little to nothing to her power that was interesting (no, flat stat buffs are not intersting). Now she finaly gets some more interactive add-ons and and audio que.
However Spirit is still pretty strong. She is fast, has a small terror radius and can abuse Nurses Calling with Sloppy for some jumpscares. She is by no means "gone".
Did survivors get more during this update? Maybe.
However the last update only contained memorable Killer contant with Cenobite and his perks or the Trickster buffs. Survivors got nothing out of that.
As such, #tldr: I am fine. I get updates for my Killers (Billy and Ghosty) and fun new playthings.
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Ghostfaces sigh when you stun him with a pallet. Hillarious even for me, the Ghostface.
Second place is hitting Pinheads chain into anything living, survivors or himself. The sound just adds to the satisfaction. And yes, I hit myself as Pinhead during some crazy chains stuns or as an extended facepalm.
Third place goes to Hillbilly roaring and then hitting his chainsaw. The sound is oddly satisfying and you just know how hard it was to get that hit. I even enjoy this when I get hillbillyed.
And an honorable mention goes to Plagues basic attack and Trapper cleaning his weapon.
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@Kurri said:
Because it feels like even when you don't play well as Killer, lose, or bullied - you still are gaining MMR and it's absolutely ruining the game.
Do the unthinkable: Go for equal hook states on everybody.
If you hook every survivor twice and get to 8 hooks you will not gain any MMR but still many bloodpoints. Most survivor will appeciate this effort and like you gameplay as a "fair" Killer and you will not be blamed for the usual "tunneling", "camping" and so on. Most times everybody escapes and you can enjoy your guilt free MMR drop.
Add BBQ to the mixture for more bloodpoints and more reward. Bring fewer regression perks or no regression perks at all and maybe try some of those adepts if you are still performing too well. Try meme builds like pallet-Freddy or Agitation/Mad Grit Nemesis. Try themed builds like basement Bubba (Agitation, Iron Grasp, Monsterous Shrine, Territorial Imperative; note that you do NOT camp the basement!) or stuff like that.
Over all your performance will drop when you refrain from the meta strategies. However be careful that you will train your skill quit a bit by doing this and once you go back to the meta you will probably gain MMR pretty quickly. To avoid this just never return to Pop, Corrupt, Ruin, Tinkerer.
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- Performance / Optimization
- Hacker / Cheaters / Exploits
- Balance frequency
Optimization is the most pressing issue for the game. DbD is one of the few games that allows crossplay over such a wide varity of platforms and that is a very good thing. It brings people together and allows more players to enjoy the game. This allows for a growing community over all boundaries that typical games have.
However this is damped and tainted by the perfomance problems and the lack of optimization.
For the game to be enjoyable beyond all "problems" with balance or game design it needs to work properly.
Hackers and cheaters are just the worst. They are and issue in every game and they get worse in a game with PvP aspects that are so easily tempered. This is the same as the above mentioned problem.
Now for number three I choose the balance frequency. Even if we admit that some problems like loops and map design or side objectives for survivors (even thou they cry about Pinhead and Pig on regular base) are a thing, in my opinion this is a big downside.
In order to keep the game fresh an flatten spikes in potential problems there should be more number changes to add ons, perks and other stuff as well as changes to the functionalty of those. The upcoming update is a huge success because there are changes for the better and the worse and finaly something is moving.
I understand that huge changes are a problem but numerical changes and small functionality updates for add ons and perks are a much smaller issue that keeps players engaged. If you buff a perk people will try to incorporate it into their build (yes, I bought Bloodfavor...) and will have fun trying it. if you change numbers of over and undertuned perks people will explor if they are finaly worth it or not.
BHVR should try to make numerical updates more often if things are underperforming. Most perks are interesting but their number is just so marginal that they are not worth running. How about a second more of speed on Smash Hit? A quicker activation on Second Wind? A larger penalty on Dying Light? More stacks on Distortion? More penalty time on Forced Penance? There is little to loose when buffing the underperforming perks. and as long as it is just numbers you can rebalance it pretty quickly.
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@Dino7281 said:
They have problem to balance even basic killers, this would make it way harder.
Right now, they can get away with releasing killer without any slow-down, because you can fix it with perks, but with your system, it just wouldn't be possible. Every killer would have to be either really fast for good 1v4, or have good enough slow-down.
Your Ruin / Pop etc., would just get replaced with No Way out, Noed
Okay, we both come from different directions.
In my opinion they have the problem of balancing basic Killers because they added things like Hex: Ruin. You can not balance a perk for Trapper as an example and then be surpiced when Nurse abuses the hell out of it.
Of course there would always be a meta build. That is in the definition of "meta". However without those slowdown perks I think that Killers will play more differently as it frees up their perk slots and allows them to prioritise synergy with their basekit. Right now those slowdown perks are just a compensation for a weak basekit.
@JohnWeak said:
Ruin should not be a hex totem, just a normal perk, maybe with 150%/175% regression speed but that cannot be cleansed and could not be equipped with corrupt for exemple.
That would be super Op and quit lazy. Uncoordinated survivors would suffer very much under this and against every Killer while at the same time not adressing the flaw of having the same slowdown on every Killer.
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Well, I also have no sides.
For survivors: NoeD. Most survivors complain about this, I think it is fair. Survivors have many second chance perks so why shouldn't the Killer also bring theirs.
Moris and killing are toxic: No, just no. Moris are just a fancy animation and the perks that allow killing are rare and complicated. Hex: Devour Hope can be cleansed and discourages camping and Rancor is visible long befor the match ends. If you get killed by Rancor that is on you for not being careful.
For Killers: Genrushing. There is no such thing as "genrushing". The survivors have an objective and most survivors just hop on the nearest gen after they spawn. If 3 generators pop during your first chase this is because of a bad spawn.
SWF: No. I understand people wanting to play with their friends. This is a basic human thing: You want to have fun with your friends. As a Killer this makes my job harder yes, but thats a price I am willing to pay. After all this also allows me to survive with my friends.
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As a survivor...
Sprint Burst, Plunderer's Instinct, Ace in the Hole, Appraisal + We are gonna live forever.
Or: Deja Vue, Leader, Deceisive Strike, Deliverance + Borrow Time
As a Killer? Depends:
- Ghostface: Whispers, BBQ, Surge, Safe the Best + Fire Up
- Myers: Enduring, Infectious Fright, Bamboozle, Monitor + Dying Light
- Cenobite: Scourge Hooks, Plaything, Deadlock, Thrill of the Hunt + Dying Light
You know...scratch that, "Fire Up" / "Dying Light" on all builds changing every match!
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@Pulsar said:
Are we allowed to talk about this?
I can only assume that I'm playing at high MMR as Killer. I get the same teams over and over, and they are pretty good.
As Survivor, I queue with people who are a lot better than me. I see a lot of Deathslinger's, Blight's and Spirit's. I am not a good Survivor, but I benefit from people who are.
It's important to note that I do mostly play Killer, despite trying to retire. I do play Survivor more than I used to, but i know my bias is towards Killer. If someone who mains Survivor wants to add on some knowledge, go for it. That brings me to my question, why is the game so unfun for both roles when the players are good?
Note: I am not talking about balance. I'm talking about fun. Sometimes they go hand-in-hand, other times they do not.
As Survivor, most matches involve some form of camping or tunneling. These are both super unfun because they often deny the Survivor the ability to play the game and earn points. Additionally, most games feature at least two gen regression perks, games that don't are over so fast they weren't worth the queue time. It never feels good to have to hunt down two totems just to be able to do gens. The dread I feel when I tap a gen and see Ruin is immense. It also really really sucks when the Killer is an ######### and decides to BM. Like, jeez, stop pouring salt in the wound.
As Killer, it sucks knowing you are probably going to a ######### map. Like, the amount of Survivor-tilted maps is insane. It also never feels good knowing that by the time you get your first down (barring a miracle) at least two gens will pop. It's super unfun to feel forced to bring gen perks to have a chance at a slightly longer game. It sucks to see two of your perks completely removed from the match within 2 minutes of the game starting. It also sucks to know that you basically have to tunnel or proxy camp to win. It sucks when Survivors can use DH effectively to make up for a mistake they made, or when you outplay them. It's also massively unfun to see a Survivor chain structures and loops together and know that you have to break three pallets before you can hit them. It's infuriating when Survivors BM you. It's worse when people defend the BM by saying it's harmless. It's clearly intended to annoy and upset the Killer.
Small rant over. What can be done to rectify this situation where both sides are having a miserable time at higher MMR?
Looks like you are a pretty good survivor and killer and yes, that is the problem.
This game is not very kind to people who know how to play it and at the higher level these flaws get a bit more obvious. As you noted the Killer has to run those 2/3 slowdown perks unless they want to surrender right at the start or are a godlike player. Same for the survivors who have to bring perks to extend the chase long enough for the other survivors to find Ruin/Undying.
Deadhard and Hex: Ruin are directly linked to each other. You have to bring one to counter the other. This is a prisoners dilema. The side who choosed not to sell out will get the bad result. If both sides sell out they both will get a "bad result".
Now one honest question: Do you think this got worse because of the MMR system?
Because for me this is the former "Rank 1"-mindset that already existed and plagued people. Only that the rank system allowed for a bit more flexible matches and let you play against to occasional <A tier Killer who just wanted to have fun (spoiler, most times they did not) and had to play against a meta-survivor.
Going by you examples the problem is with game speed. Killers are getting genrushed to fast so that they bring Ruin. Survivors get stalled too much by this so they bring Deadhard. It comes down to the general point where survivors are too fast and the Killer has a good option.
If they just slow down the game this will change nothing as Killers will still bring Hex: Ruin. The conclusion would be to first remove Hex: Ruin and then add some other slowdown to Killers that can be scaled individualy.
You can see this with Freddy. He is not fun to play as but he can hold his own with Pop alone and gets quick good with Ruin, not because he is good at countering looping but because he can teleport. Now imagin a world without Pop / Ruin / Undying but Freddy applies a x% action penalty while you are asleep.
Now the devs could adjust this value just for Freddy alone to make him more balanced.
A general perk like Ruin prevents this as with Ruin you will impact all Killers: Nurse as much as Trapper. And this just limits options quit a bit and results in you unfun experience.
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No. This is a smart play an a good idea. I play Cenobite and it is fun to see how many good ideas survivors have to deal and solve the configuration. The most basic idea is to solve it when I just downed another survivor: Either way I risc loosing my prey or I loose my configuration.
I have a choice, there is interaction and the survivors can make a smart play. Maybe an even smarter play by baiting be into a very safe tile where I will loose the chase or wast much time. I like this.
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@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557360#Comment_2557360
Game should not be balanced around exhaustion and slow down perks. You should not feel like you must use either to succeed. Better change both and make proper balance changes so game is funnier and healthy for both sides. Also git gud yourself
This.
If you balance the game around fickeling perks like Hex: Ruin or Deadhard you just empathise cruches that limit your game design. As an example Hex: Ruin stops the developers from interducing new slowdown mechanics in the basekit for Killers because survivor will complain that the slowdown load is just too much (rightfuly maybe even so).
Wouldn`t it be more fun to face different Killers with different slowdown every now and then? Well, Cenobite and Pig are such Killers, they bring their own slowdown that can become a problem once you stack their own slowdown with Hex: Ruin or Pop goes the Weasle. Something that is not supposed to be "good".
I do not think that Deadhard is a problem at all. It realy depends on the Killer you play and how well you can bait it / how good your connection ist. Most survivors can not evade a not lunged M1 and some Killers can bait their Deadhard quit easy (Wraith being the king of baiting).
The question is if Deadhard is a cruch that prevents other perks from shining and I do quit think so. However I would not nerf Deadhard but buff the other perks in an intesting way to empathise more variance.
Also...well yes, like in Dark Souls...git gud.
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Well most of those skins are quit okay when you consider that the entity is just a big elder god that can bend time and space to its will. As an example I have no problem with beach Dwight and christmas Dwight, both are Dwigth but the entity choose different times to take him into the fog.
Other skins like Bacchus Clown or Charon Blight are also quit fitting in my opinion. They are not "the blight" for me but another being with a similar ability. Charon rushing at you for not paying him the coins is also quit the fitting idea in my opinion and the Clown as a god of hedonism (yes, yes, he is more but still...) is very fitting.
There is however as you said a fine line that should not be crossed. Survivors as an example can be more goofy than Killers as they had a normal life. Maybe the entity took them while they had a party and where drunk. Killers not so much as most of them got taken by the entity for their malice. Beach Hillbilly is strang for that very reason however he is still unsettling enough to be a serious Killer.
The only exceptions to the rule would be Legion and Ghostface as both are quit "human" and could do some wonky oufits. Trickster can have some too as he could just have them as stage costumes.