Gwinty
Gwinty
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While I do not want to wast time for the support team this is quit a bad situation for me as a Killer.
The game is ruined by this persons behaviour and it was clearly intentional the way he ran to the box. There was nothing to loop around or even play around in that area, it was a completly empty hallway. The survivor did not have anything like "Slippery Meat" or any luck based perks. And that player had over a thousand hours into the game.
Sure this is not an absolut proof as the person did not confirm that she griefed. But there are some clear indicators. Also it was not even a disconnet, which I would take as "bad things happen". I saw bad survivors getting placed into my match and I saw stupid decisions being made especialy against me a Cenobite (trying to solve the cube right when I chase the survivor as an example).
But back to my toppic: So most people seem to agree that I should just go on as a Killer and murder them, maybe play for hatch with the last survivor?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556055#Comment_2556055
Im having alot of fun messing around. You sweat alot for more than 2k. In the end, both of us would have equal of 2k.
But non-able mind game loops should gone.
The funny thing is that people complain about Deathslinger and then talk about those loops. I think they should stay as long as you can mindgame at them with Ghostface, Pig and Wraith. Maybe the key to those loops is that they should unsafe.
@Konnor24 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555541#Comment_2555541
The game is pinheads worst map. Never ever seen him get a kill on that map when im playing survivor, and when i play pinhead, i get 1-2 kills at most.
Its counterable. Just because you dont know how to counter it is your own problem.
I had two interesting games yesterday with Cenobite that showed just what you said: He is fine. Survivors have to learn how to play against him.
The first game was against bad survivors. They let the chain hunt trigger every time and then went for the box only to summon me while standing at a corner of the map. I downed the summoner every time and it resulted in only one guy escaping, the only good survivor that looped me for quit some time, dodged my chains like a pro and then fund hatch.
The second game was against some good survivor, a 2-2 lobby. They took the box, they waited a while and then solved it. Almost every time I spawned with a wall between me and the survivor, leading to a bad chase for me. After a while I no longer ported and kept chasing my current victim. They all escaped with me reaching 5 hooks at the end.
Cenobite has clear counters and clear strenghs. Finaly a Killer you can play without having to rely on Ruin/Undying to get some slowdown. Even with Hoarder he is not that oppressive. Most survivors will loop you for some time even while holding the Box unless you have that one add-on where they are Exhausted.
Maybe chains should not interrupt you while solving the box, everthing else is fine in my opinion.
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@latinfla4 said:
I mean a limited number of times...we dont want then to be OP.
I do not think that this would be a good idea.
The problem is that Killer perks are on a whole other power level than survivor perks. This is needed because you have to account for only 4 killers perks that are supposed to have the same power level as 16 survivor perks.
Now if you could reapply a Hex that would make it quit more powerful. The most Hex perks are already quit intense, when you think about it. Hex: Ruin is a gamechanger, Hex: Devoure Hope allows for instant downs (play this on Nurse and you see the problem quit well) as does Hex: No one escapes Death and so on. If this is the level of power Hexes are supposed to have, then I am fine with them being oneshots.
Also as @Gladonos pointed out, most Hex perks have unlimited range. This makes them quit a bit stronger than the boon perks as it also give the devs an option to buff and nerf Boons more freely.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556076#Comment_2556076
Movies are terrible example. And unless u are 8 years old child u always know MC is going to win/escape cause experience. I don't remember any movie where villains won in the end. It's all full of cliche where villains suddenly become dumb when MC arrives.
If u want to balance around that, it's already boring.
Then maybe you watched the wrong movies.
I know quit a few where the villain wins, especialy if it is a horror movie or a slasher. How about Saw where Jigsaw wins, Silence of the lambs where Hannibal escapes, Midsommar (not going to spoiler it), The Omen or Nightmare on Elmstreet (the original)?
Most horror movies that are good also do not show you who is the main character in order to avoid that effect. They interduce you to the "cast" and you can build a few sympathies but then some characters will get killed. A good example of this play with expectations would be the "new" Friday the 13th from 2009.
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2553882#Comment_2553882
Yeah that is nice and all but that is philosophy, and communications is a science. You can talk about how discussions and public discourse SHOULD be all you want, but communications is the study of how it actually plays out, and the go to smart play in these situations is to deliberately take on the burden of providing accurate information about your brand and its activities, because failing to do that causes anxiety among your consumer base and rumors to spread, mutate, and grow.
BHVR isn't in the debate club. WE are having a conversation, and between US there is an expectation claims are backed up, but that isn't the same as saying 'BHVR should behave like rational actors and perfect logicians' which literally my entire field as well as over a hundred years of psychological research says isn't true. You got a bad case of 'too online' and are looking this purely as an internal community debate rather than a practical concern for a company that employs 600 people which should be (assuming this rumor is untrue) treating this like an attack on their brand by a bad actor and not something to hit snooze on.
You know, even thou I do not care mutch about this NFT stuff and think that this entire "offer" is a scam, I greatly enjoy the insight you provide about communication and the effect it has for companies. Thank you very much.
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@Kurri said:
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of it being Asymmetrical? I am sure most people go into Dead by Daylight because it looks fun, not because they want a sweaty competitive game where Survivors are on par and able to 1v1 Killer.
So can we stop looking for Balance and just make the Killer the power role again. Where if the Killer does their job perfectly they always 4k, and it's the Survivors who need to stress out the most to win.
The problem is that a bit of balance adds more fun to the game.
If a Killer would be able to insta down you with a shotgun over 36 meters it would make him a pretty heavy power role. However that would be no fun for the survivors as they have no ability to counter that or get away from the killer. In oder to balance this game the survivor has to have a chance to escape the Killer.
Think about Horror movies, just like @jesterkind said. They are after all the scource for DbD and its content. The Killers there are only interesting because you never know who gets killed and who survives. This keeps you on the edge and makes the movie interesting. DbD need to reflect that aspect.
Now how to balance DbD?
Thats the hard part. Because you can not just balance for a 1 vs 4, you need to consider 1 vs 2-2, 1 vs 1-3 and so on. Not to mention soloQ of course. Take the new Killer Cenobite as an example: As soon as survivor know that they can manipulate his teleport spawn, do not need to solve the box right away and how to evade chains he becomes quit a bit weaker. On the other hand he can pretty much stomp uncoordinated teams where nobody ever gets the box and chainhunt is on forever. At least here you can hope that survivors are capable of learning (or listening to streamers like True, Otz and so on)...
Deathslinger as an example was never a problem for a coordinated team, just like Hag and Trickster are nothing against 4 man teams. Even a facecamping Bubba is laughable against a team with a plan. However when you let them against soloQ the chances of survival get slimmer and slimmer, thus reducing the fun by reducing the tension of the match.
On the other hand a Killer like Trapper or Legion emits no tension for the survivors at all. Even against soloQ players they are quit bad and get beaten very quick. This reduces the tension for survivors too, because they know they have a very good chance at escaping. This is like watching a horror movie while the poster for the next part already spoilers you that the two main characts will survive.
And this is why we need some balance. To not spiler the ending.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
Idk if I am really the number 1, but I wrote an extremely large guide to Pinhead, and I was one of the first to discover box spawns, logic behind them, consistent chain techniques, playstyles, and potential for his kit (all written and put in my guide, I can link it if someone would like).
Pinhead is a love of mine, I absolutely adore his kit and I would love to answer any questions people have about him, opinions and etc. I have been playing the game for around 4 years, and Pinhead is just such a unique and creative design.
I also play Pinhead since his release. I have tons of fun with him and like the whole set.
I usualy play his 3 personal perks and Thrill of the Hunt, dropping some effectivness for a better feeling. What is you not "best" but most comfortable build for him?
Now what do you think? Is Pinhead too strong or just at the right level?
For me he is pretty good but not too strong. Good survivors can coordinate themself quit well when it comes to the box and chainhunt value goes down once they know what they are doing. His own chains are need and allow some fun plays around loops, but can be countered quit well and depend on the players skill with their narrow hitbox.
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The question is: What do you aim for.
For me it is a challenge to get a good result without using "unfitting perks". Unfitting being a completly subjective categorie that varies for each Killer. As an example: A Hex does not fit on Ghostface, Thanatophobia does not fit on Cenobite.
Now with each Killer I have a bit of a different goal. I want to use their power to the max potential. As such I like stalking with Ghostface, only mixing some hit and run because I think stalking and insta downing is more fun. I aim for some sick chainsaws while sprinting around a loop when playing Bubba and the match is a "win" for me if I get this right once per game. And as Pinhead I always teleport (unless I just downed somebody) and chase the person that summoned me, I do not turn down any challenge.
The thing is, even with kills now being regarded as a "win", I just refuse to play to that role. You can do this too if you like.
Relax a bit, make a fun build and if needed loose a few matches until you are at the right MMR. At the start of this system I got stomped in most of my Ghostface games because I run no slowdown perks (aside from Surge from time to time). After a while it stopped and now I get desecent matches.
I hope this approach can help you to get more fun out of the game. Maybe it works for you, it did for me.
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@HealsBadMan said:
Legion and GF chase music would be arguably the best in game. GF would have something creepy and panic inducing, Legion would have awesome rock/heavy metal vibes. I can't wait :D
As far as their reworks, devs really need to pull through. 80% of GF addons need reworking or straight buffs, and Legion as a whole needs a huge buff pass if not rework. Legion 3.0, lets go.
Well, Ghostface chase music, count me in. I might even buy myself a new skin if they do this.
Ghosty needs some love for his add-ons. Most of them are bad or not funny to use and do nothing to enhance the experience of his gameplay. Even thou some of them could interact nicely with his power and do interesting stuff. Remember that "Philly" was supposed to reset you power every time a generator was completed? An Addon overhaul would be greatly appreciated by many Ghostfaces out there.
Legion is a whole other level thou. Even I who play Ghostface a lot and would love to see add-ons for him will say that Legion should be higher up the priority list than Ghosty. Give those kids some love. At least Ghostys power feels nice and works to his goal. Legion feels sluggish at best, she runs at you, hits you and runs away. You mend, maybe you heal, that was the power, oh great.
Even as a survivor this is pretty boring. And Legions self stun after canceling her power is so bad that even a pallet stun is more prefered to cancle the power.
Some people seem to enjoy Legion and I would not take that away, they like running and stabbing, I get it. If they change something about Legion they should give them addition functionalities and not remove the part that people enjoy.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2550192#Comment_2550192
No I'm referring to the fact that people cling to their meta perks while complaining the meta is stale, and would have an aneurysm if ruin or pop or bt or dh got nerfed even if base game mechanics got changed to make the defualt experience better
And you are right with that.
I take more mechanics like Pinheads box over Hex: Ruin anyday. Even if I like my Pop goes the Weasle I would accept it being nerfed into the ground for more fun perks getting added.
In my opinion a perk like Hex: Ruin that limits the design of future Killers or Deadhard that is just the best exhaustion perk at high level must give because they hinder game development. And as I am playing a bit more Killer than survivor: Take my Pop, Tinkerer and Ruin away and give me mor killers like Pinhead and Pig, I take it gladly!
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@MeltingPenguins said:
I really hope they have more data on how some kills happen. Cause seeing pinhead on top of that list while knowing how many people simply DON'T OPEN THE GODDAMN BOX and then complain about the chains....
Just look how high Freddy is on the list right now.
That guy is not bad, not good and as funny to play as watching paint dry. His "anti-loop" is meh, his map mobility is okay and his add ons are a joke. Still the second highest winrate...
My guess is that at lower MMR more people play the game. As such Killers who thrive of easy mechanics will perform quit good there. Freddy is easy as hell and offers a good return with his mobility. Same for Bubba who is not rocket science either but has a strong power that newer players often fall victim to, because they do not know his counter.
Now Pinhead could be as high as he is right now because all players are "newer players" right now. Survivors just do not know the best tactic to counter him, when and where to solve his box and so on. I had people with more than 1.000 hours into the game who got grabbed by me as a Pinhead because they panick vaulted a pallet after I chained them (they were on the other side and vaulted in my direction).
The funny note it that the devs themself admited that those numbers mean nothing and that everybody using them to justify anything will just make a fool out of themself.
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The problem is that you should not delay a game mechanic that could be worth it for perks.
If slowdown perks are a problem overall they should get looked into, something the devs will do somtime in the future. Hex: Ruin is an escpecialy bad offerender here as it slows the game down by a lot without the killer having to do anything. At least for Thana or Pop you have to hit or down somebody.
Point is, with Ruin as an example, you are blocking other creative options with this perk. Killers with their own slowdown mechanic can not be implemented, when Ruin is in the game, because they would just stack it.
The better point against early game collapse was that trapping killers could abuse it. Keypoint was that the generator speed is slowed down until a chase started. I imagin that trapping Killers would just ignor all survivors, set up their traps and only then start a chase, this negating their supposed weakness of a bad early game.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2548458#Comment_2548458
You missed the Q&A where they showed off the recent kill rates then, guess which killer was top of the list :P
An remember how they said: "Don't use these to draw conclusions because you'll make yourself look like a fool. Nurse has a kill rate of ~43% ..."
Second highest Killrat is by the way...Freddy. Followed by...Bubba.
Killrate mean nothing because they do not factor in ranks. Pinhead dismantles uncoordinated teams and those are even more present at lower MMR. He gets weaker at higher MMR just as Nurse gets stronger.
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@Pulsar said:
Remember guys, this system took 2 years to develop and is as good at deciphering skill as the last one.
This is my main problem with it.
If this system was brand new and the 1.5 version implements into the game after the first PTR than I would be pretty fine with the statment. However they worked on this for two years only to come up will "Kill and Escape based matchmaking" (KAEBMM, sounds as awful as it is to some).
They should try to imrpove the system over time now. To aim for the goals they discribed here. Because the problem is the following: Imagin I was a realy, realy good survivor and I play very altruistic. I loop the Killer all game, rush gens like I hat 3x Prove Thyself and open the gates. However Baby-Nea overdid her flashlight clicking and the Killer hooked her, just to facecamp. Now my altruistic side kicks in and I rescue her, I die and she escapes.
No even without malicious intend and while doing something that is clearly deemed good by the game (you get points for that and I even run "We are gonna live foever" now with 4 stacks of course!), I get demoted, Nea goes up.
This seems kinda weird, right?
I have no problem if the game would just straightout tell me: Be an egoistic bastard and escape by yourself.
Then this matchmaking would award a playstyl that is intended. However this is clearly not the case. The game contradicts itself with this system, rewarding and punishing the same action at the same time.
Still they could work on this. Maybe count it as an "escape" if you are alive when the gates open.
Now, do you believe they will work on this...
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Because most people are to proud to just let the survivor escape.
People still want to "win" and as a Killer most people view a Kill as a win. The system right now just took that assumtion and made it so that the game evaluates you like that.
To just let a survivor escape while that little rascal has been t-bagging and flashlight clicking you all game? Do you realy think that many people would be able to do that?
Same for survivors. Do you realy think that many people will just die in the endgame collapse after they bullies the Killer for about 10 minutes? I do not think so. People like "winning" and getting smashed by the entity is no win at all for most people.
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Yes.
It should be called KBMM or EBMM, but I am fine with it. I only think they should improve some aspects and make the decay harder or interduce a reset from time to time. But overall I have good matches right now and a more mixed basket. Sometimes I stomp, sometimes I get stomped, seems fair for me.
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Thank you very much for doing this. The summary is great and helps me and my limited time and patcience a lot.
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I think the problem is that you do not derank fast enough or still get to much MMR even for a bad performance as a Killer. Honestly I am not a very good survivor and I get Killers who have no idea what they are doing far to often. When I run a Killer around an L-T-Wall for more than 40 seconds he is not on my level and I am not a good looper as I prefer stealth.
Same when I play Killer. I just do not get what the matchmaking is trying to tell me. When I play my Hillbilly for nostalgia reasons I get 3-4 people together on comps (I asked them) and get stomped with 0-2 hooks. When I play my Ghostface or my Cenobite, two Killers I am playing a whole lot better than Billy I get 2-2, 1-1-2 or soloQ lobbies with survivors who have seemingly never seen a Ghostface or a Cenobite. I get 2-3, sometimes 4 kills and at least 5-7 hooks. Sure, sometimes I get stomped with those two too but it is less than with Mr. Billy and some of my Cenobite and Ghostface matches are like that because survivor get super cocky with bodyblocking, baiting BT or finishing that generator.
As always I run suboptimal builds because they are much more fun for me. But it just does not feel right sometimes.
Still better than the old system, to be fair. This was a step forwards and with some adjustment it could be even better. At least now I get a more mixed basked of games.
But my experience does not seem to fit with those of other players and I think a bigger decay when you do not perform well as a killer (and no, shredding 25 pallets and getting only hits and no downs is NOT performing well) to adjust the MMR.
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I only run slowdown when it fits the Killer and yes, I will take a lower MMR for a more fitting perkset:
- Ghostface: I only run Surge. Pop is to brutal for him, Thana to ghostly, Ruin to hexy and I do not have Eruption.
- Myers: No slowdown perks. Sure I get genrushed but I take it, low MMR Myers incoming.
- Bubba: Just Pop. the guy has the legs to give the gen a gentle kick in the balls.
- Billy: Pop/Tinkerer, Same a Bubba, Billy did not skip leg day.
- Pinhead: Scourge Hooks: Gift of Pain, Deadlock and Hex: Thrill of the Hunt. Enough slowdown with his passive, no need to wast slots for more, I take the opportunity to run a more fun build.
- Spirit: Surge, as it fits her ghostly image. Sometimes Ruin and Surge, depending on my mood.
- Wraith: Sloppy, Thana, Surge, works well with his ambush hit and run.
Over all I mostly only run a single slowdown perk. I dislike using Hex: Ruin as I am unlucky and dislike the perk for ruining the game without me doing anything. At least for Pop and Surge I have to work.
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Well, maybe they want Wraith to play more hit and run.
I did not get the complains either. Wraith has pretty easy counters and even a gimmicky one with the Flashlight. Sure his hit and run can get annoying but at least it is something different from the usual. Wraith was fine in my opinion and I never had a problem while facing him.
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Well, it has been going for 5 years.
And they have had many bad ideas during those 5 years and had many bad things in the game. Infinites, old DS, old Ruin, Machine-Gun-Killers, old Moris, Freddy, old Nurse, Crack-Billy...and they kept growing and getting more and more people into the game. So they must do something right...
There are still many licences to hunt and Killer concepts down the line. And more Horror movies and games are created every year to produce more licences to add to the game.
I think this could go on well...for forever.
Maybe sooner or later they will have to bring DbD 2 but even then they do not have to make it as bad as Overwatch 2. The problem with Overwatch, aside from sexism on Blizzards side, was that it implemented many bad mechanics. The worst blow in my opinion was the matchmaking where you could only que for a certain role...in quickmatch... I could no longer play the game for fun with my friends and that killed it. Something similar would be if DbD would outright ban SWF, something that is very unlikely.
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I think the main problem is what was pointed out by @xili84 .
There are only 3 killers viaable at the highest level: Nurse, Blight and Spirit. Out of those two only Blight offers some interesting gameplay and even then, when you only face the same 3 Killer over and over again it gets boring. There are probably people who can play a Myers at that level but their number is so limited that it makes no difference.
Yet Killer variaty is one of the main strenghs of this game: One game you play against Oni and have a loud and insta downing opponent. One game you play against a hit and run Wraith and one game you get Hag with her tarpping playstyle. This makes games feel fresh and different. And this is lost to streamers who usually have a high MMR.
The conclusion to this would be a "wilde" mode, where you disable all matchmaking algorythms and just que up and get the next best Killer. Any form of skillbased or playtime based matchmaking is doomed to repeat this effect after all and at least then you could volonteer for SBMM.
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This should go away. While solving the box you should not be targeted by chains.
However I would like to add that the survivor in the video just stood still and did not even try to get to a better location to solve the box. When you are out in the open chains can spawn and hit you from everywhere. Go into a corner or behind some cover and you get a better chance at solving it because the chains can no longer hit you.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2544787#Comment_2544787
Madness didn't hinder you and you can "just snap out of it." Every pinhead runs -10s on the chainhunt activation time and/or the iri addon where you can't even see the box until chainhunt activates, then teleports to the person who tries to solve the box. Maybe you just play against bad killers?
And then the box is instantly solved and his passive power is gone for about 90 seconds. -10 seconds do next to nothing to this and the add on is just there for style. His iridesent add on should pack a bang as it is his ultra rare for a reason. Look at the survivor add ones with brand new parts or anti hemmorage as an example, this is the power level iri add ons should have.
Also you can manipulate Pinheads spawn when he teleports and abuse that to get into a safe position forcing him to either not teleport and give up his passive power for some time or to teleport and enter a suboptimal chase. Depending on the map you can even deny him the chase completly by solving it in the right position.
The most common reason people complain about Cenobite is Ruin/Undying stacked with his power. However in that case Ruin is the problem that makes it impossible to add more slowdown mechanics to the game. Hence Ruin should go not Pinheads power.
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Playing Freddy now is like watching paint dry.
He does his job and his teleport is a strong weapon. Combind with Pop and BBQ or Tinkerer he can delay the game and apply pressure at all the right points. However his "main power" the snares are just a bad joke. Only their "Hindred" status can do anything to help you, sometimes denying a fast vault, a Lithe or something like that. His pallets are fun but a meme as good survivors will just predrop everything once they know your a pallet-Freddy, thus denying him his fun power. Also fake-pallet spawns are mostly bad.
His lullaby and the oblivious status can screw some survivors over and confuse them but nothing more.
Freddy is not nearly as bad as Myers or Legion. However he is just no fun to play. His power has a low skill floor and an even lower skill ceiling. I only play him sometimes for the quest or because I like his laughing.
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@SunderMun said:
He's bad if he doesn't get his RNG power up, but there are builds that allow him to get it up consistently that make him insanely oppressive.
Remove the box, buff the rest of his kit. Remove RNG out of his chase power, (sometimes it just does nothing at all) make it more clear when he's using it for the survivor at the same time.
Why remove the box?
It is the first time a Killer has an actualy interesting slowdown power aside from Mrs Piggy. They should make the spawn of the box more random yes, mabye change how many chains get spawned by chain hunts if it turns out to be too much. Worst case you could even increase the timer after a box has been solved. However most of the time when you have a good survivor they will deny you chainhunt no problem.
Also while solving the box you have enough options to screw with Pinhead.
@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2544450#Comment_2544450
Makes sense, gotcha. So solve the damn box.
Another thing for those of us that put in work have to do in Selfish Q
I would disagree a bit. While solving the box immediatly can be good, holding onto it can also be a benefit.
As soon as you have an idea where Cenobite is you can decide this. If you have no idea you should get to safe ground and solve it, if you know he is on the other side of the map you can wast a few seconds and then go and solve it.
The monst annoying way you can do it is if you know where Pinhead is and then try to solv it. Pinhead always spawns from the direction he teleports. I think it should be around 10 meters away from you and he will always look at your direction. Knowing this you can solve the box in a position where you are super safe and wast his entire power.
Hawkins lab and Autoheaven with the long wall of cars are a pain for me as Pinhead once a survivor knows how to control my teleport. I had a match on Hawkins where one survivor constantly got the box and solved it and each time I teleported I was on the other side of a long wall with no way to reach that survivor. I think he had a friend telling him my position but it was still greatly executed counterplay and made me loose tons of time.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2544164#Comment_2544164
I have, but when he teleports, you leave the box unsolved and it respawns somewhere else. Am I wrong here? Because, yesterday, I kept getting teleported to, then he would leave me and the chains would still be active.
I certainly agree, playing as him can be different. But, I am not a fan of the passive abilities for doing nothing
No, actualy you solve the box instantly when he teleports and respawns somewhere else after 30 - 45 seconds. Only chains that where already spawning should still target you. Also of course he can still conjure his own chains to target you, the active part of his power. Maybe the Cenobite you faced used the add on "Impaling Wire" that spawns chains when you break chains on the enviroment?
I understand that you are not a fan of a passive ability. This is precisely why I hate Hex: Ruin. That thing can just chill under a stairchase in the saloon or behind a rockpile on Ormont and ruin the entire game just by existing. And Ruin on top of Cenobites ability is just trash.
However I like side objectives and Cenobite is finaly a Killer interducing a side objective that you actualy can not ignore. Because something like Freddys "Dream State" is just a bad joke.
Another thing I like about this power is that I can challenge the Cenobite for a chase by using the box or accept the challenge when a survivor takes the box to solve it. Far more fun than a clickering flashlight.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2541911#Comment_2541911
Yeah because this killer - especially with this build is even less fun to play against than Thana Legion on a small map with green button addon.
Also sorry for interrupting the killer main circle-jerk in here with my non biased post!
Serious, Pinhead is fine.
It is Ruin/Undying that is a problem for this game and that need to be changed. All those soloQ player who complain about Pinhead using Hoarder and Franklins would be fine without the notorious Ruin/Undying in the room. Pinhead is finaly a killer with a fun slowdown.
Ruin/Undying makes it impossible to throw in some fun mechanics without them shooting over the top...
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@milwaukee354 said:
How did devour hope make it to this game, you have killers who literally have one shot abilities, that tack on devour hope in a game, seriously take off the training wheels lol, I think that's a tactic for scrub players, who puts on devour hope on a ghostface lol unbelievable
Ah yes, I feel your salt.
Did you get hit by my Devour Hope when I played Ghostface last week? I deviated from my usual build and tried some other perks and tried Decour/Surge/BBQ/Whispers and other builds like that...
Honestly, Devour Hope is fine. It takes 3 hooks to start and can be cleaned (or blessed in the future). It does not work on every Killer, discourages camping and the only offender with this perk that a real problem is Nurse. But Nurse is a problem with any leathality perk.
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@Adaez said:
For me its betwen Wraith and Hag.
Wraith: Can traverse the whole map in seconds while not knowing where he is,thrives off camping,slugging,tunneling,always uses noed.Also his power takes almost no skill to use.
Hag: Camping simulator.
I would disagree with Wraith, but that seems a personal opinion for you. I feel the same about Huntress, she always camps, tunnels and runs Ruin/Undying/Lullaby. Unfun Killer. Not per design but per players using her.
A fundamentaly flawed Killer? Nurse.
She plays the Nurse game and not DbD. Not that she is that great because most Nurses are baby nurse learning and only one out of a thousand goes on to become the unstopable Nurse god. However Nurse is flawed by design as she is only ok because people can not play her.
Right now Trickster is also no fun. I know he is not that easy to play, however his main power is to shred through your health faster than a Bubba can sprint. He still lacks map presence and has no slowdown, making him bad on big maps like Ormont or Red Forest. This is no fun for the Trickster player either. His aesthetic is cool, his chase music is fun and his lullaby is also nice; but facing him is just...
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2543998#Comment_2543998
I understand how it works. The pig has to catch you, down you, trap you and cannot teleport to the jigsaw box. Not the same thing.
Also, trying to do the box in solo q, when Pinhead just teleports to the box, not even to chase you, but to just get you off the box is BS.
Did you ever play against Pinhead?
When he teleports the box is solved and disappears. There is no "teleport to get you off the box". Also survivors can hold the box hostage or solve it on a favorable tile. If you know where Pinhead is you can pinpoint where he will spawn when you solve the box and you have no more problem.
I think he is fine. I play him quit often and both his actual power as well as his passive are good. His normal power has interesting counterplay and opens many opportunities for mindgames, his passive is a good slowdown. Finaly a Killer you can run without Ruin/Undying/Pop and where you can enjoy some other perks.
Sure he gets a bit painful when you stack Hex: Ruin on top of his power. But Hex: Ruin is a problem anyway so that should not count. Ruins needs a nerf not Cenobites passive.
Good killer in my opinion. I like playing as him, I like facing him. Good chase music, good theme.
However he lacks his voicelines.
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The map is a problem because people give up on it even thou it is that survivor sided.
I like playing on it and send myself there frequently as a Killer. However most survivors just surrender, quit out or let themself die on the first hook for no reason. This ruins my game. Not the map with its bad tiles that can be abused forever, no, the survivors who quit out...
People do not even try to play on this map and blindly believe everything they read on reddit about it. Most survivors say they have a problem finding generators and do not every try to learn the spots where they could spawn or they could just bring a perk or a map for that...
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I got accused of "gen camping" once.
There were 5 gens at the start of the game and those survivors tried to finish this one gen so hard that I got a 4k at 5 gens left. After that they flamed me for "gen camping" and as a noob...well...this brought me to my idea of "gen camping Bubba" where I kick a generator with "Trail of Torments" and then hide behind a wall.
Everybody expects basment Bubba. Nobody expects Generator Bubba!
Another interesting one was when I played Myers with Dead Rabbit and Monitor. Those survivors flamed me for having to terror radius even thou it was a pretty fair match and 3 of them escaped me.
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@DoomedMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2513568#Comment_2513568
You got a solid point I admit, I know that the weaker killers has to be buffed to the level of stronger killers, so Solo Q can be buffed, and too strong perks can be toned down.
But for the moment it won't happen because it is too much work, and to be honest, I don't see BHVR doing that, because it would be good work, and now they aren't doing good work at all.
I agree with you for 100%, I hope the future will give us what we want.
By the way, with all arguments fired. Thanks for the discussion. It was fun and you bought up some valid points too.
I hope I made it clear that I agree with you on the point that Cenobite with Ruin/Undying is unhealthy for soloQ. Which is why I do not run that build as I wish for all sides to have fun and good moments.
We can only hope for the best.
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I wonder if this would be more broken or more balanced. I think the idea of having a Killer buddy with whome I can communicate sounds pretty interesting.
The most broken combination would be a strong territorial Killer and a strong chasing killer. Imagin Trapper setting up a 3 gen on one side of the map and then a Deathslinger who brings him the downed survivors with Agitation and Iron Grip. One goes hunting and can not loose because the other is guarding the generators.
The best combination for this would probably be Nurse and Hag, Spirit and Hag, Blight and Hag or Deathslinger and Hag. Simply because Hag is the strongest defensive Killer when could set up her web and Nurse, Spirit, Blight and Slinger have the best chase. Out of those I would opt for Blight or Nurse and Hag, because Blight/Nurse has some of the best map mobility and can even pressure some other generators.
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@DoomedMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2513369#Comment_2513369
Yeah sure he's not a problem basekit, I think we all agree about that. But his passive works too much with Ruin/Undying, and 90% of PinHead players use this combo on him because how it works well.
I complain about PinHead, and not about Ruin/Undying, because when you create a killer, you have to think if he wouldn't be broken when combined with certain perks.
Is Ruin/Undying a problem with Clown, GhostFace, Myers, Trapper, ... ? No. But is Ruin/Undying a problem with PinHead ? Yes.
Currently, this build is a solo Q destroyer, that's it. You can say my arguments are invalid,l if you want, but it's a fact that this build is absolutely overwhelming against solo surv, and there are two perk slots and add-ons on top of that already strong build.
The fact that you had to pull out every mediocre to bad Killer to defend Ruin/Undying just shows how problematic this combination is.
Instead of fixing Ruin/Undying and then applying some fixes to Ghostface and his band you suggest that Pinhead gets nerfed and then probably has to play the same boring perk combination as them. This forces a stale and boring meta onto people and is not a progressive way to develope this game. By keeping Ruin/Undying you block out new slowdown mechanics on Killers or perks that can slow the game down, because they will always enhance that combination. This limits the development by large.
Killers like the M1 class you just mentioned have to play this combination to have any leverage against some descent survivors. Killers who already excell against them like Nurse, Blight, Spirit and Hag get too much leverage by using these perks.
You said it yourself: This build is a soloQ destroyer. I agree with that. However this still does not show off how Cenobite himself is too strong.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2511758#Comment_2511758
There's a difference between fear and annoyance, and the majority of the time tombstone piece triggers the second reaction. Constant exposure to the game means it stops being scary after about 200 hours no matter what, and whilst you can't please everyone because someone will always find a reason to be annoyed at something, the general consensus around those addons is that being deleted from the game within 4 minutes because of a random so teammate who sat tbagging him behind a pallet in clear line of sight is just purely frustrating.
Which is why I proposed the change that you can only kill a fully stalked target.
This would make it so that you dumbass teammate gets killed for her behavior.
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I like Ghostface, Myers, Demogorgon, Pyramide Head, Nemesis, Cenobite, Nemesis, Oni, Billy and Blight.
I dislike Huntess and Trickster in his current state.
The rest is fine.
Ghostface is fun because I play him to and like to see what other people can do with him. Also I know the stalking angles and how to reveal him and can counter him quit well. Myers is the same. Demogorgon has a good ability, dope chase music and is overall a good opponent. Pyramide Head allows for interesting counterplay and needs to be looped in a different way, also his music is once again top notch. Nemesis is the same and I like the zombies on most maps they add to the ambiente. Cenobite is overall fun and interactive, his box is a good mechanic. Oni and Blight are overall cool and fun to face.
Huntresse is just my miserable experience. Most Huntresses I face are boring, they camp and tunnel while the hitbox of those hatches is just bullshit for both sides. I think she could be a fun opponent, but I have bad luck with her. Trickster is too opressive and does not even have the cool cowboy theme to save himself.
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@DoomedMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2511484#Comment_2511484
He is oppressive with Ruin/Undying, because vs 4 solo surv, everyone will have to deal with totems, with the chain hunts, the box, the killer, while doing gens.
The fact that you HAVE to quit your gen because of the chain hunt is making PinHead strong against solo.
You don't know if someone is going to take the box, so you have to go or you are just losing your time because of Ruin combined with the hunt.
PinHead with Ruin/Undying vs 4 solo Q is too oppressive, there is too much to do. In lucky games, totems will go fast, and only one guy will go each time to get the box. In average games, totems will take a while, gens will be done slowly because there will be 2 guys that are going to get the box. In worst games, everyone will go to get the box, the killer is good, totems are well hidden, gens are not done, not even one.
He IS oppressive vs solo Q, as survivors are not productive vs a gameplay that requires to be productive.
No, what you descirbe is not Pinhead being oppressive it is Ruin/Undying that is oppressive.
All of your arguments against Pinhead only work because you add Ruin/Undying to it and you refuse to address that this is the main problem. Neither of your arguments would work without Ruin/Undying.
And I fully agree that Ruin/Undying is a problematic combination that limits other slowdown options for Killers. Even more interactive and rewarding slowdown options like Pinheads box or new, more interactive slowdown perks. Every new form of slowdown will just get stacked on top of Ruin/Undying and become problematic, which is why Ruin has to be changed.
Pinhead himself is not oppressive vs solo Q. He just has an addition form of slowdown and that slowdown alone is no problem. If you play against him without Ruin/Undying you will see that only the most uncoordinated teams will fall victime to his box. Which is fine, the game should punish bad players.
I play him often and I do not use Ruin/Undying, I use his 3 personal perks and Hex: Thrill of the Hunt. Solo survivors can finish their generators quit well and are not that dumb.
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Haddonfun ist best map. The long fences are a work of art and the buildings are top notch.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Survivor:
- Addons that don't let you lose your Key upon death or using it;
- BNPs should have a pre-requisite before being used, like idk escaping at least two chases;
- Make charge addons not stack with purple medkits. Medkits should not be able to heal you more than twice.
Killer:
- All Seeing Blood from Wraith;
- Recharge and range addons from Nurse should not be stackable;
- Tombstone Piece from Myers;
- Mint Rag and Rusty Shackles from Hag;
- Basically any addon from Pig that makes it easier for heads to pop;
- Basically all speed and duration addons from Spirit above yellow rariry;
- Scalped Topknot from Oni;
- Alchemist Ring, Compound 33 and Blighted Crow from Blight;
- Engineers Fang from Pinhead.
I mostly agree with all of them Engineers Fang can go, I do not need it to have fun with Pinhead. All Seeing is not needed anymore for Wraith, Mint and Shackles for Hag are an overkill and all of Spirits add ons aside from her passive phasing are bonkers.
However I would like to make a case for Myers and his Tombstone piece. This and the Tombstone are probably two of the only things that make survivors fear a Myers because he can actualy do something to them. Without those add ons there is little to no tention for survivors facing Myers.
A Nerf would be finde however: You can only instakill a fully stalked survivor. That way Myers could no longer suck out Claudette who tbags him at the pallet and then kill you at a generator. It would be on the Claudette who messed up. The instant kill should stay but it should hit the right person.
For survivors it is quit easy and I agree with you.
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I understand that too. A way to make him more fun for SoloQ without him getting weaker in 2/2 or 3/1 lobbies would be great. That would however mean that something should be implementes that allows at least a bit communication for the soloQ like a ping "I go for the box".
But this is an old issue for solo players. That causes for to many balance problems.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2511484#Comment_2511484
Problem is lack of communication, so you will often waste time by having multiple survivors running for box / noone will run for box and you will get destroyed by chain hunt.
It is kinda same issue as hooked survivor.
The problem is that once the survivors do coordinate everything is fine. You can hold Pinheads box hostage and try to deny him his chain hunt, leaving him just with his normal chains (which can be strong, but this would make him lag slowdown).
Pinhead is a breath of fresh air for me because his box provides some slowdown, letting me dump other perks that are just a crutch. I run him with no Pop and no Ruin, just his 3 basic perks and a Hex: Thrill of the Hunt and can enjoy it.
If you nerf his chainhunt he will become just another Clown like Killer who needs to compensate his lack of pressure.
Also while I agree that his power can be pretty bad when a group of survivors does not coordinate...wouldn't you agree that the ability to coordinate is part of a good survivors skillset? I dare to say that a good survivor has the ability to coordinate with his teammates which even can be complimented with certain perks (Kindred or Bond as an example).
Maybe a survivor without this ability should get punished.
Sure thing that punishment can hit 1 good guy within 3 bad survivors, but as soon as there are 2 descent survivors everything should be fine. Any "nerf" I can think of would impact Pinhead via this example: 2 coordinated survivors can outplay the chainhunt with ease. When you nerf the chain hunt this leveler will get bigger and Pinhead will loose harder and harder against 2 friends or 3 friends.
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@Nos37 said:
Going back to maining killer until solo-q gets a buff
Okay, please elaborte why you think he is "too strong".
Because if I think about "too strong" I think about something like Spirit, Nurse or Hag. Pinhead is not nearly as oppressive as Hag in my opinion, but this is about your opinion. If this is about the ultra rare add-on, than I agree. That can go away, no problem.
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@Freddy96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2509786#Comment_2509786
I think that some people delude themselves into thinking that they were just playing chill so that their loss feels less bad.
Well, I guess the loss still feels bad unless you change your goal in the game.
If I play Ghostface to get a 4k every game I will feel pretty bad. If I play him and say "okay I use BBQ and a win is 4 stacks, also maybe I can get a good stalk and a nice jump scare." I get a good feel 9/10 games. Made my day a whole lot better. Sure survivors escape and some have bad manners, but I am Ghostface and can t-bag right back at them.
Same for Pinhead. Sweaty play or Meta builds were no fun for me. So I went back to his 3 personal perks and added Hex: Thrill of the Hunt. Would Pop/Ruin be better than my Scourge Hooks? Sure thing. Is it more fun to have survivors who are oblivious to you and take forever to cleanse? Yes it is. Quit many survivors escape me, sure. But it is still more fun.
TLDR: I hate people who say they play chill and then bring the most meta build ever. Nothing wrong with trying your best, thats all fun and games, but please do not pretend otherwise. If tryharding is fun for you, do it...
And if you pretend to be chill just to have an excuse when you still loose...well...lets just say I will not hold them in the highest regards.
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No you do not need to do that. It is more important to get chases back to back to build pressure. Tunneling is just a bad way to build pressure because you have to go out of your way to do it.
The most efficient Killers are those who can enter a new chase seconds after hooking a survivor. Examples are Freddy, Oni or Wraith. And yes I know, Freddy is as entertaining as watching pain dry but his teleport makes him very time efficient which gives him a huge leader over Killers like Ghostface and Myers.
However I understand that Killers will not shy away from tunneling somebody if they get unhooked just like that and 5 meters away from them. The rescuer has an obligation to get the Killers attention and not hide in the corner...yes I am looking at you, Claudette...
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@Freddy96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2509544#Comment_2509544
Jokes on you the killer was a streamer and said that WE were the tryhards and he was just chilling
That build is anything but chill or fun.
Seriously what is wrong with people admiting that they are trying their best and using the most efficient tactic avaiable? It is fine but please stand by it and do not deny it.
A fun Spirit build as an example would have her two passive phasing add ons and some perks like Dragons Grip, Eruption, No way out and Rancor...
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I also play EU West and at the evening. I get my Killer matches with around 4-8 minutes maximum usually its just 2-3.
The problem seems to be the lack of individual MMR for the Killers on Pulsars side. This is just bad and ruins the fun especialy when you take the Feddy example. Also there seems to be little to no decay in MMR when you let people escape and this is bad too, MMR should adjust downside a bit faster to get people to play more again.
Or another theory: The MMR of Killers is just higher overall when you are good with one Killer and survivors tend to have a lower MMR over all compared to Killers. Example: You best Killer is a 10, you "new" Killer get a 8 and survivors only have a 7. This would place your best killer against the same survivor as your worst Killer. Thus explaining long que times and bad matches.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2509070#Comment_2509070
Spirit can hear grunts of pain, hear footsteps, see grass moving, etc. IW should not be needed to have a chance at winning. Survivors don't have any clue if she's phasing or faking it... She's also invisible when she's phasing. She definitely needs some tweaks. It's not fair at all.
While I like Spirit and her fantasy as a Ghost with a grude I think you are right.
The major problem is that she should encourage a hit and run playstyle like Wraith to get more jump scares her ability robbs of the survivor of so many information that it is just more favourable to chase the same player. This is not fair and especialy the standing still "mindgame" is just dumb. This has nothing to do with her fantasy at all and should just go way.
I would say the first change should be this: The survivor within the terror radius can hear her phasing and maybe her footsteps (putting both on equal ground) and the survivors outside her radius get no warning and just the footsteps. An injured survivor within her heartbeat could even get bloody footprints once she is like 4 meters away as a warning.
This would make her less oppressive in a chase and more jumpscary.
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I think that Billy should get a better hitbox for his chainsaw and that recovery animation should not lead to him looking at his feet.
The hitbox is so tiny I sometimes miss survivors who are maybe half an inch next to me and still big enough for me to bounc off a bush on Haddonfun (bouncing off...a bush...with a chainsaw...urgh...). This make for no good feeling and makes me think that his hitbox should be a bit more forgiving.
His recovery itself is fine bumping should be punished and I can deal with that. However that Billy looks at his feet is just bad. He is not Nurse with a gamebreaking ability that needed a downside, he is just Mr. Billy with a chainsaw.
I love Billy. He was the first Killer I played and his Perks are top notch for a beginner in my opinion. His power combinds a insta down with map mobility and is fun to use, his chase music is dope and his story is sad. Even thou I prefere more subtle Killers now I enjoy myself a good game of Billy from time to time. He is a good piece of work. This is why I think a few tweaks would be welcome.