Damarus
Damarus
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@TicTac said:
Its widely known that tunneling instead of hooking every survivor is more effective. Its not even straight up tunneling one person, only ignoring one person and never chasing them, gives the killer a better chance. Hooking every survivor three times makes the game a lot harder.
So would you as killer or survivor want a mechanic which makes 12 hooking viable? Or what are your reasons against it? Would it make games too long?
Edit: the goal is that the killer shouldnt be penalized for not tunneling a survivor to death.
You see, that's the main issue. Nobody should be thinking in terms of <The killer should not be penalized for not tunneling and exploiting a faulty, toxic "mechanic">. People need to understand that, before anything else, videogames are meant to be fun. If survivors feel like being chased and bloodlusted for a time that would end up in them also celebrating their 90th birthday isn't fun, they'll leave. And there are not bots in this game, aside from the tutorial (yet) as far as I know. If killers feel like having to face full SWFs with broken perk combos isn't fun anymore, they'll leave. And this will end up in DEAD by Daylight connecting with the first part of the game title, the game will indeed be dead. Until people stop going for this "I want to be rewarded for not being toxic" instead of "I'm not going to be toxic, so I won't get punished" mentality, the game will stay as it is, and the community will remain one of the most toxic, obnxious one I ever saw since the days I played League of Legends.
I'm not saying that every game should end up in 12 hooks, as there are also those who DC, suicide on hook or that kind of stuff. I am just saying that the mentality needs to be widely improven.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815033#Comment_1815033
They are slightly different, but both of them allow 1 of the sides to end the game earlier than intended. So they are comparable.
1 hugely different point is not enough to stand for a comparison. Moris killed you before you had the chance to do anything worthwhile, most of the time. You could be dead before the second gen was repaired. Keys, on the other hand, while still being an issue, are very different. According to how many survivors are still alive, and thus, on how good the killer is performing, you could not see a hatch spawn before the end game, which is the key use people keep crying about. If the killer managed to snowball and hook really fast, that means you will probably have the hatch spawn when 2-2.5 gens have been repaired. Which means the killer already got 2 kills, at the very least. Moris would kill you with the sole condition that you had been already hooked, and then tunneled, without a chance to ever prevent that.
So no, they are not comparable, because they are not even close to being the same thing. Or are they? Do you feel like you ended someone's life forever, like in real life, if you kill a player in a videogame? Cause, you know, that is slightly different, but both of those things allow someone to end a life. Can you see the flaws in your reasoning, now?
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@Saitamfed said:
Just one word... toxicity.
Survivors toxicity is more seen. Why? Because there are four survivors, you might have three non-toxic survivors but you will always focus in that toxic nea with purple hair and a flashlight who knows how to run tiles and tries to be toxic at you... if you leave her and go for the rest, she will tank hits and make your match the most unfun and frustrating experience, if you decide to go at her, due to some reworked tiles there are many pallets so close to each other and she will run those tiles, spamming their flashlight, the other survivors will do gens and open the exit gate since you're not chasing them, so you will be frustrated trying to catch a toxic player who is clearly outplaying you and who is far better than you, just to be t-bagged at the end of the match.
Now, it's true that there are several good matches with non-toxic survivors but since there are so many bad ones, they will outnumber those good ones.
Notice this, top tier killers are killers who "break the rules" in some way. Nurse as an example can blink through pallets, windows and close big gaps in a few seconds. Spirit, when you're using her power, she can't be seen and your traveling speed is faster, of course that comes with the counter that you can't see survivors either. Hillbily, he can one-shot, not only that but he can break pallets with the one-shot as well, he can use his chainsaw to travel through the map at an insane speed.
Basically.. there are some bad map designs and there are just a few killers who are good enough to make it up for those bad designs.
Well, it would be against logic to not have killers with unique "game-defying properties" to perform better than others. Having Nurse go through walls and pallets will of course make her better, but at least that is something you can counter with some observation. Nothing like that against Spirit, for instance, who you need a perk to counter. But that's not the point I want to make. The thing is, what you are stating is pretty obvious, friend. It would be like having a player start out as a Juggernout in a normal CoD multiplayer match, ofc he's gonna get a long way ahead any other player, before you can take him down.
As for toxicity, having a game turn out like that is the killer's fault, really. I had a match the other day, where I was playing as the Trapper. Guess who I went against? An OoO player. You know, those that try everything to get your attention and make you chase them? And what's the solution there? There is a saying, quite true in some cases: "Ignorance is bliss". Ignore him, go for other survivors and focus on them. He will spend some time doing nothing, still desperately trying to get your attention (especially if you fake going for him), turning the game into a 3v1 for quite some time. Back to my match, as I said, I was the Trapper, which means he was my main counter. He disabled a lot of my traps, but that didn't really stop him from joining the rest of his teammates in the Entity's graveyard. If you start losing your cool because of that one guy, or two guys whose main objective is to make you fall for that, you're not gonna have fun, ofc. But that changes if you make them play by your own rules. And FYI, my Trapper isn't maxed yet, lacks key slowdown perks and I despise tunneling and camping, which means I'm not gonna do that, unless I find some very toxic players and feel like giving them the rod.
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@TheMoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804079#Comment_1804079
What are you talking about? They are all still good. They arent easy wins anymore, but they still do what they are supposed to do.
Moris on the other hand dont do anything anymore.
Moris, on the other hand, don't grant free wins anymore. You can still save yourself time and effort with a Mori, if you really need to play like that.
What Moris do now:
- After being hooked twice, or camped/tunneled 'till second phase (not unlikely, is it?), that survivor will be killed without the need of hooks.
- Hook sabotage becomes irrelevant.
- Bodyblocking becomes irrelevant.
- Flashlights and pallets become irrelevant.
- They are somewhat fairer for survivors, who don't end up dying instantly because the killer want a cheesy match.
What Moris did differently before nerf:
- Easy 1 hook mori after tunneling. Game over.
- Get some steam off your back while you are trying to go for the Adept achievement with very bad killer perks.
Though I admit old moris were useful in the latter case, I will get along with it. The nerf was needed long ago, and they did this right. Maybe it was a simple nerf, but gotta tip the hat to proper balancing. Now we wait for keys, which will hopefully be nerfed properly as well.
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815004#Comment_1815004
Less about why it was necessary honestly, and more the process and decision making that led to such a "simple" nerf.
And why would you care about that, anyway? It's not like you are going to be implementing any changes yourself xD
Knowing the process or anything won't make things different. But I'll humor you and ask it anyway: What would your "not-so-simple" change be?
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805255#Comment_1805255
Mori's are the only reliable counter to keys, which are untouched. That is the problem with this. Nobody disagreed that they both needed changes, but they need to happen at the same time.
Also personally i don't think making them based on 2nd hook is a good idea. This effectively makes them useless. The mori animation often takes longer than just hooking, and when using a mori you lose out on hook perks like BBQ/Pop/Thrilling. The only thing they are good for now is tunneling a survivor on their last hook, which isn't fun for anyone.
A better mori rework:
- Ebony and Ivory Moris now work on a token system, every time you hook a survivor you gain 1 token, every time survivors complete a generator, you lose 1 token. Spend 4 tokens to mori a downed survivor.
- Ivory mori allows you to do this 1 time.
- Ebony mori allows you to do this 2 times. When the trial begins, the generator furthest from the killer is automatically completed.
- Yellow mori is now basekit.
People should really stop acting as if Moris and keys are connected. They are not, they are not counters of each other, period. Moris, as they were before, had to be changed long ago. Fun experience being chased and bloodlusted for an eternity, then die after your first hook because the killer isn't good enough, right? The only time I'd use Moris, personally, would be for challenges or to get some pressure off my back while trying to get the Adept achievement with very bad killer perks. Other than than, I am perfectly fine with this change. As a survivor, I am more than happy to at least have to go through 2 hook phases. As a killer, I don't really care, as I don't depend on those. I'd rather kill people because I was successful in mindgaming and applying pressure than to do it because I let the game do the job for me. If they end up escaping, too bad, I'll move onto the next game. As much as survivors are not entitled to escape everytime, killers are nowhere near deserving a 4k every match.
Again, keys are not related to Moris, and it comes in hard having to specify that once more, in 2020. BUT, I do hope they get changed ASAP, as many things could be done to nerf them.
Oh, and one last thing: confirm it or not, but my experience has proven that an Ebony Mori is far more likey to spawn in the bloodweb than a purple key is. Fact.
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1814975#Comment_1814975
Had to be to be pushed out? Why did it have to be now? And for such a simple (lazy) change, it could have been done much earlier, or simply be done later, during an actual patch. With some actual developer feedback along with it, instead of as just a bullet point at the top of the patch notes?
It should have been done much earlier, if you ask me, but you've got to be happy with what you are given. I don't personally care about getting dev feedback for it, to be honest. You and me have both played this game, do you really feel like there is a need for devs to word why the change was necessary? I know I don't.
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@Vetrathene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804663#Comment_1804663
But why is it going to take time? Why didn't they wait for both to be ready so both sides of the community felt included? Both frustrate the opposing side. Both where seen as OP. But because one was 'simpler' it had to get pushed out? After Mori's had already been nerfed and keys never have been? In fact they are stronger now then they used to be because of how hatch can spawn even with no generators are done and the killer closing it does not prevent a key from being used.
Tho I agree with you on the fact that they could have waited for both changes to be ready for deployment, I also am happy with the Mori change being live already. There is a big, huge difference between Moris and keys. If a killer tunnels you (and let's be fair, almost every single killer does) you get downed the second time, and it is game over for you. You just spent less than intended in a match, probably not scoring enough points, and now you gotta search for another one, which had a high chance to turn out the same way. This whole point is non-dependant on own skill, anyway. As a survivor, on the other hand, you gotta wait for at least 3 gens to be done. And if neither the killer nor the survs are incompetent, 3 gens will be done mid game-ish. During that time, you wouldn't simply hide in a locker or wait it out, as there would simply be no point in using a key only for the sake of it.
To put this simply, the Mori nerf had to be pushed out because it was too punishing for survivors, who could easily be killed in the first few minutes, without the chance of doing anything, especially at lower skill levels. Also, as far as my experience has proven, Ebony Moris are FAR more common than a purple key is.
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@Speeddemonsaif said:
Lemme explain if you can only mori on second hook moris become uselsss especially on pyramid head where he his special mori for second hook state. If you die on third hook state what the ######### is the point of moris. Bhvr litterally buffed flashlights and nerfed moris and didn't do a thing to the keys god damn this game is way too much survivor sided. ALSO WHY IS BHVR LISTENING TO THE ENTITLED SURIVVIORS THEY ARE JUST TORTURING US POOR KILLER MAINS.
First and foremost, if you need to bring a Mori while playing PH, you're hella sad. That said, this change is part of what is called "balancing" a game. Keys are still missing out on that part, tho, I'd be happy to see them changed ASAP. BHVR is actually doing, or planning, a fine job to reduce factors of frustration in what, you always have to remember, is a VIDEOGAME. 1st hook Moris needed to go. 4 keys need to go. Spamfest killer powers need to go or be made as much less spammable (Freddy, Huntress, Billy, Bubba, Clown). I would also like to have NoeD, toxic perk combos and 4 man SWF removed, but I guess you can't have it all.
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@ILoveDemo said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/P35Q422V7DFB/screenshot-20201209-143836.png
Mandy has to 100% right. Keys are so much weaker as Moris the only thing Keys (maybe) need is a 3 secound Animation. They have so much and also hard conditions. So pls don't make them useless. With the Mori change the game is so much less toxic now and I'm Happy with that.
Well, most killer players feel like they are always entitled, no matter what, to get a 4k. Glad Moris were changed with what I already proposed years ago. Many survivors, on the other hand, feel like they are entitled to an escape. It will only be fair to have a nerf applied to keys as well, and if you cared about balance in the slightest, I feel like you would not be asking for keys to go without revision. Something needs to be done to keys as well. They could still retain their core mechanic, which is hatch opening, but they should also receive something like only a single key can be brought in per match, meaning only a single survivor could start the match with a key. Prevent keys from spawning in chest if one is brought into the trial, or have just the survivor who used the key on the hatch escape that way. I feel like the first one, coupled with no more key spawns, would be the better option.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1804050#Comment_1804050
yea but to nerf them into the ground like this while letting keys run rampant and nerf them beyond what keys will be nerfed to in a 1 v 4 game with 1 mori and 4 keys you gotta ask yourself if it was a good change, my answer is no
First, Moris were NOT nerfed into the ground. Those who claim this are 100% among those who had to rely on early 1-hook moris, to be able to do anything worthwhile. They still serve their purpose, which is to save the time you need to get to a hook, while having survivors not impeding you a kill (if you were to hook, they could bodyblock, flashlight/pallet save, destroy hooks). Still, they have become fairer for survivors, as I proposed years ago, since you supposedly get to PLAY a VIDEOGAME now, after your first down.
Onto keys now. Why are people so blatantly speaking about things they still don't know? What makes you think keys will still be what they are now? What makes you think they will not decide to have just the key user able to escape through the hatch (and please, do not use the achievement as an excuse)? They could be implementing all sorts of changes. There could be just a single key in match, meaning only a survivor, be it SWF or not, will be able to bring a key. They could make it so, if a key is brought into the trial, the chances of it spawning from a chest drop down to 0%. They could, as I already said, let the survivor carrying the key be the only one able to open the hatch, closing it instantly when it is used. Or, who knows, ALL of those things combined.
Get out of this "I deserve a 4k every game because my parents told me I am a special boy" mindset.
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@TheButcher said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1800419#Comment_1800419
A Killer should have a kit that allows them to use all the skills that comes with Killer, just like how Survivors are built to be able to perform with all skills that comes with Survivor. The Killers that don't have map pressure, chase/anit-loop abilities, and the ability to distract Survivors from their main objective are far too weak, and need to be buffed to this standard.
Other than the fact that there is literally no skill involved in spamming Freddy's Snares/pallets, you clearly do not understand the concept of what being "balanced" means. Balanced means that a killer would have strong points and weak ones, pros and cons. Old Freddy had almost only cons. This new version, on the other hand, has got no cons. You see where I am going? I'll word it in a simpler way: think about the way you can have a nuke in CoD multiplayer games. You have to reach 25 kills in a row, without dying. If you do, you kill every player on the map and win the match instantly. But you have to score 25 kills without dying, and that is hard even for campers. If you do, tho, you win the game. That is balanced. Freddy? He has the nuke as soon as he starts the match. Again, and please try to follow me on this: balanced characters cannot do EVERYTHING. Freddy can. Or, you know, let's have survivors with Dead Hard, Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time already built into their kits, plus 4 other skills of their choosing, plus the ability to destroy hooks while the killer is carrying them. Sounds about right, doesn't it?
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@TheButcher said:
The only reason why Freddy does so well is because he is balanaced. Good survivors have no issue against him. Bad survivors complain the game is boring because they refuse to do gens, and get distracted by his power.
This should be a base reference for all Killers. All Killers should have the ability to traverse the map quickly, to create an additional objective for survivors to distract them from their objective, an ability to scout survivors, and have the ability to make looping more difficult.
The only reason Freddy does so well, is because he has all of this, and the Killer playerbase finally has a balanced killer that can reflect all of their skill.
People say he's an easy mode killer, but on the contrary new freddy's suck till they learn the basics of the game. People say he is boring to face, because they can't bully a Killer that can actually act as the power role in a match. People say he is easy to go against, because he actually is - as everything he can do comes with sound/visual notifications, can be avoided, and countered. Playing against him is easy, when you learn how to actually play survivor.
Balanced, huh? Yeah, no. As much as the old Freddy was there just because they liked the license, this one can do far too much. Teleporting is ok to me, but the rest needs some work. Freddy players can just mindlessly spam their skill without even worrying about it being strategical. 10 fake pallets mean you can cover the whole map, for instance. Snares require A BIT of thinking, but, 10 are still too spam friendly. And it's not even like you can remove them without activating them, so. Not to mention Freddy's hitbox has been broken since release. Can't remember how many times I was hit by a Freddy who lunged in front of him, while I was behind him. Have you ever played R6S? If so, you must know about Maverick, an operator who still doesn't have a true and proper counter a couple years after his release4. Freddy is like that, as there is no counter for a Freddy who tunnels you (and let's be honest, every single killer player will tunnel the s**t out of you when he spots you).
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
Considering only 3 survivors have Halloween cosmetics, I'm thinking they will do 2 killer 2 survivor this time around, Oni and Deathslinger for killer and Meg and Nea for survivor, but what are your thoughts? let me know
I'd bet on Meg, then perhaps Oni and Blight. And Deathslinger, if there has to be a 4th one.
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@GamingHulk123 said:
Why can’t it be like make your choice. Right now it’s make your choice with another cool down. This perk is definitely not op, it’s barely usable. Can we please get rid of the extra cool down?
Because there is already so much stuff that gets spammed to instadown on every hit, in this game.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/discussion/comment/1627351#Comment_1627351
What MadLordJack is saying is that you can still achieve the scoring event and actually blind the killer, without it being a killer grasp rescue. Happens all the time.
Oh, I see. I've never had that happen to me though. Not before this update, anyway. That's why I thought it was a bug/error. Is it not, then?
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@MadLordJack said:
Flashlight saves have to be very precisely pulled off. If the blind goes through while the killer is in animation, it doesn't count. If the blind is too late and the killer just looks away, it doesn't get activated. You have to start it at a precise time so that the blind registers just after the animation stops, which thanks to dedicated servers is actually kind of easy, at least compared to a year ago. Still difficult to aim and time, though, it's more that you have a slightly larger window to successfully save in.
Well, I do know how flashlights save work. I rarely ever used flashlights, but I always managed to pull it off. What I am saying is that I keep getting points for blinding the killer, which means he should drop the survivor, but he does not.
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@Kikki said:
I play both sides but seriously Survivor have to many of them lol
Dead Hard
Unbreakable (Uncounterable with D-Strike if Killer is only down you again)
D-Strike(I know Tunneling but can also be used as crutch. Uncounterable)
Borrowed Time
Adrenaline(Uncounterable with BT, especially in Endgame besides you maybe play Bubba)
Soul Guard(even if it is situational)
"OH I (Survivor) had made a mistake where the Killer should got me? Nope I had my 2 Chance's. I should put them all together lmao"
Not forget if all 4 have them equipped... 🙄🤔
Well, I mean, yes. But that is bound to happen if killers keep camping, tunneling, chasing the same guy forever (even if it means that the other survivors pop 90 gens meanwhile), only ever spamming instadowns or whatever they can spam, instakilling you on your second down because they can only play with Ebony Moris, bring NoeD and even use it on instadown killers and Ebony Mori. As you can see, each side has its crutches. The thing is BHVR hardly knows how to balance the game properly. And, you know, you also have to take another aspect into account. I am one of those few players who refuse to use NoeD and who didn't use DS. But now, I am so goddamn sick of getting tunneled each and every single game, that I WANT to fight fire with fire. If tunneling, camping and Bloodlust get erased from the game, DS and Unbreakable can go, as far as I am concerned.
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
According to the Q&A stream Devs are monitoring PH. Most likely PH will get "minor changes" (still getting nurse flashbacks)...
Let us remember what so many people have complained about. I personally can only remember two specific things:
- Canceling Rites of Judgment (switching from M2 to M1) has a cooldown of 0.5 seconds. According to many people here this is much too low, because PH can simply fake his M2 without any punishment (0.5 seconds is not really noticeable). The legendary "get hit or get hit"-Situation was born.
- PH can negate a lot of perks because of his cages. Especially DS and BT users are NOT happy about that.
So what could they change to make people happy again? Increase the cooldown from 0.5 to 1 second? 1.5 second? 2 seconds? Yeah.. I don't know what they're planning, but a higher cooldown most likely means that he can no longer fake his ability. Since this is his TRUE STRENGTH, such a change would make him drop from tier A to tier C in no time (since I am not a friend of tiers this is only to illustrate that he would lose much of his viability).
So if the cooldown should be increased, then he should get something in return. I don't know what that could be, but just increasing the cooldown alone would kill PH. I don't even want to talk about the scond point. He has a unique ability and that is a good thing imo. But that alone doesn't make a good killer and I really hope that they don't mess him up.
What do you think about it? Will I soon be a sad PH main or will they find a good solution without ruining it completely?
I say the only thing PH needs is a perceivable cooldown on his Punishment of the Damned. Between PH, Leatherface, Dream Pallets Freddy, Billy, Spirit, Nurse and Clown, this game is already too much of a spamfiesta for killers. The rest is already ok, to me.
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@BaschFonRonsenburg said:
Pyramid Head, Deathslinger, and Spirit.
mad a killer main, unless it’s a daily, I won’t even play them. I don’t like the idea of having to guess. I want skill involved in a chase. I don’t play survivor to hold m1. I want the chase to matter, not be a guessing game.
Gonna second that, even though I would replace Deathslinger with Freddy. The thing is, the only real problem, other than incorrect hits and longer lunges than normal, that Freddy would not even be annoying to play against, if not for the spamfest the match becomes when he has fake pallets. 10? I mean, come on xD As for PH, his distance shot plays around the same concept, more or less. Spam freely, no cooldown.
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Most killers, actually. A lot of times, they hit in front of them, while I am behind them, and still get hit. But, of the things that truly leave me upset, the first and second place surely go to Huntress' hatchets and Billy's Chainsaw, hitting me through walls and corners I have already disappeared behind.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561754#Comment_1561754
1 or 2 survivors would just keep going in and out hooked person arena making the killer see them so he stay in arena and 1 or 2 survivors be doing gens.
how this work for survivors you ask? well survivor find the right place to be so there both would be in the arena that at same time killer stopping the hook altogether.
I can't see much of an issue there. It would mean that 2-3 survivors are not working on gens and that you know where they are. This is to solve camping, anyway. If would make it so the killer leaves and goes to look for somebody else. If no one is trying to camp, things would go as normal. And if someone makes it so the killer chases them around the hook (resulting in the hooked guy losing progress), there still are 2 people not doing anything. It feels like you didn't understand my proposition as meant, anyway. I said the the hooked guy would stop dying if the killer is into a certain radius from the hook, and NOT in a chase. If there are survivors near the hooked guy, he would keep dying as normal. And you're acting like everyone is SWF, anyway, which isn't the case.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561573#Comment_1561573
the killer being to close to hook hook don't lose heath been done in a ptb didn't work survivor did someone make it not work forget what.
It was done just like that. If the killer is close to hook, it starts working that way. I added to that the fact that it stops working if another survivor is also close or if the killer is in a chase, much like the emblem points loss for killers works now.
@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561573#Comment_1561573
I'd be interested if you started a whole new thread on this because it does kinda take away from the subject at hand. Plus I feel like most people here are pretty lazy and won't even read that whole thing because it's pretty long
As I said, I could do that, but people would just get in to bash at me and criticize everything because it doesn't get along with their ideas or their "playstyle". Just like that guy already did in this very same discussion.
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@AvisDeene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561337#Comment_1561337
I am being rational when I say this, the Killers job is to kill Survivors. When you queue up solo you do so taking a risk that you will be paired with Potatoes. It isn’t the Killers fault that you’re the only one that may do totems and your teammates refuse to. NoEd isn’t over powered because it gives the Killer and extra boost in power, it’s strong because Survivors get tunnel vision and ignore the secondary objective.
No player is entitled to have their opponent play as they want to. As long as the rules of the game aren’t being broken, there is nothing wrong with being chased the whole match. Isn’t that what most Survivors on the forums want? How many times have I seen it posted by people that the chase is the most fun part of the game? Let’s say you got chased for three gens, wouldn’t you say that you had fun and we’re able to contribute to the team? Why should the Killer be lenient with you while you’re on hook? It’s their right to face camp you since they put up with chasing you for that long. It’s just a consequence of playing Survivor.
The only way to make Killers give up the strategies Survivors don’t like is to remove some of the stress from their shoulders. As things stand now, gens go way too fast. Saying just pressure them doesn’t work. There is no way a Killer will be able to hook 4 people 3 times each before the 5th gen pops when they face a competent group of Survivors unless they play one of the top 3/4 Killers unless they use tactics you don’t like.
It’s funny how you blame Killers for making the game not fun but not mention how unfun Survivors make the match for Killers. Do you really think Killers have fun when they repeatedly get locked stunned? Or how about pallet stunned and blinded? Or how about getting blinded with a Survivor on their shoulder, losing the Survivor and all the time they spent to down them? Do you think Killers love it when after they chase someone and are walking to the hook, that the hook disappears because someone has a tool box? Do you think it’s fun for Killers to get body blocked over and over?
You probably think that’s all fine and dandy because it’s just Survivors completing their objectives. Well the same applies for Killers. You are not entitled to search chests, heal, work on gens or help your team. Their goal is to make the match as difficult as possible, hopefully leading to your teams death. The only thing you’re entitled to is a “chance” at Survival.
Don’t ask Killers to go out of their way to make the game enjoyable for you unless you’re willing to ask Survivors to do the same for Killers. So the next time you think to save someone by using a flashlight, consider how the Killer might get upset and make the game easier for them by not blinding them. Oh, you won’t, because you want your points, well then, don’t expect the Killer to do the same for you.
And if the game dies, so be it. It’s up to the Devs to provide an enjoyable experience for their community, not the players.
Wrong mentality, and the main reason why the game is in its current state. Players do not have to make the game enjoyable... This is so self absorbed. DbD has some huge issues, but those come from players much more than they actually come from devs. It is always players ruining video games, from cheaters, to campers, griefers and so on. If you think otherwise, you are delusional.
There really isn't another use for flashlights, other than saving someone who is going to be hooked. Their futile duration makes them useless for anything else, really. But had you bothered to read my post, you would have noticed I suggested the limitation of having a single flashlight, together with toolbox and key. Guess you just rushed to the killer part, being the very same kind of guy I described in the edit note. You killers are incredible, anyway. If survivors rush gens, ignoring totems and chests, which would lead to a "loss" of time, you're not ok with that. If survivors want to search chests and look for totems, you whine all the same.
One last thing; I don't expect you to be able to process this, seeing your already given answer, but I'll try to use simple words. Even if I was the flashlight kind of guy, or anybody else was playing that role, you are TRYING to blind the killer to save someone, who probably got tunneled. IF you manage to save that guy, 'cause sometimes killers get blinded, you get the points, but don't drop the guy anyway, you are not PREVENTING the killer from playing. If you get camped, there is nothing more you can do, other than try and give some more time to your teammates or die and go look for another match. And that is bs, especially if you are a solo player. What you are saying is, essentially, that it would be right for an FPS multiplayer game to have a single spawn point, and for the guys who survive to keep spawn killing those who keep dying, without a chance to do anything against that.
Enough is enough, our conversation got stale already, peace out.
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@Endersan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561337#Comment_1561337
My only problem is that everytime they see someone using ds they make a post about it. I never make anypost about tunneling,camping killers. So why can't they do the same? And if they don't tunnel=no ds no bt.
They just have to change the way they play so we won't use ds and bt. In the current state ds and bt is necessary.
@Endersan @Technician19XX Anyway, I'm going to stray off-topic here, but I'd like to discuss balancement issues with the guys in here. I would normally open a new discussion, but I've been there, done that, and people in this forum tend to only criticize things that would be unfavorable for their "faction", without even giving proper examples or explaining why it would be a bad thing. And that is because, normally, there is nothing taken into account, other than their own satisfaction. Take your time though, because it's going to be a long ride. I'll split the points into survivors and killers, to give a better reading experience. Would like to hear some thoughts, especially from the two guys I mentioned, since they are among the few I met on these forums who have proven to actually use some rational thought and constructive criticism.
-|SURVIVORS|-
- Decisive Strike and Dead Hard should go, or they should be reworked so that DS is deactivated if you start working on gens or get fully healed (maybe one OR the other), and DH does not go off cooldown instantly while hooked, maybe even adding other 20 secs of Exhaustion. If it stays, it should also become somewhat more consistent, because I keep being hit mid animation since crossplay came out, while still becoming Exhausted.
- Hits through windows and on the other side of pallets should not happen, if the survivor is already running, which means he completed the animation and was out of the killer's reach. I even had players hit me on the other end of the pallet, which was already used, all while they got stunned and teleported on the side I was, but even further than where I was standing.
- Flashlights, keys and toolboxes should be limited to one per match. This means that, of the 4 survivors in the match, only one can bring a key, only one can bring a toolbox and only one can bring a flashlight. Items in chests would still remain as normal, same for medkits.
- Survivors should be shown how many totems are still up on the map, possibly by placing a candle shrine in the basement, as someone already suggested. This could also lead to killers taking them by surprise and hooking them in the basement.
- Gen rushing should be reduced by implementing something like parts to find, perhaps only for the last 2 gens. Somebody already proposed that, though he suggested to do that for all gens.
- If the killer is anywhere near a certain radius of the hooked survivor, unless there are other survivors really close, the hooked survivor should not lose any health until the killer goes away. That radius means that he should not be so close as to be instantly ready to hit another survivor who comes in to unhook. The radius would be distance based, not terror radius based. Boom, got rid of camping (not a "strategy", since a strategy involves reasoning and planning). Of course, this would not apply to EGC.
- This isn't really survivor only or killer only, but some maps, like Yamaoka Estate, have horrible and very few pallets. Those maps should receive some more of them, while still acting like what I described in the first killer point.
- Exit gates should be farther from each other, so that survivors have at least a slight chance at escaping, if the hatch is closed and they are left on their own. Not really sure if that is something possible, but I'd like a system that keeps track of points earned. If you are the last survivor and did not, at least, complete a gen and a safe unhook, the hatch will not spawn for you. And I said spawn, so keys would not help. If it already spawned and you didn't do both of those things, it disappears. If you are quick enough to go for it with a key before the other survivor dies, though, you get to escape. Can't prevent everything, can we? Oh, and keys in the hands of a survivor who dies on the hook would vanish from the trial.
-|KILLERS|-
- So, first things first, I feel like there should be no Bloodlust for killers. The presence of BL alone favors endless chases, which is what I also call tunneling (coupled with ending a chase to start another with an injured guy who was just unhooked). As we all know, infinite loops have been finally removed from the game, a while ago, which was mainly the reason for BL to exist. The removal of BL should also lead to less pallets, while still having no more than a single pallet in almost every area of the map, so there are no dead zones. But no areas with double pallets. This would mean, for instance, that there should be no areas like The Game's basement (but there, you have the basement, so those pallets should stay, to prevent tunneling at least a little). Maybe even show auras of pallets to other survivors the moment they get dropped, to give them some info SWF already has (I would also be into removing SWF altogether or limiting the party size to 2 people).
- NoeD should get no move speed bonus and, as somebody else suggested, only activate on the condition that no more than 3 survivors have been hooked (if the survivor was the same one all 3 of those times, the same applies).
- On the killer side, you can only use Ebony Mori if the survivor is on the LAST hook, if he has been hooked twice before that. If he got to second phase on his first hook, you will have to hook him. If he gets downed after the first hook, you cannot mori him. The same would apply to Pyramid Head's Final Judgement. Also, PH should not be able to have Moris, since he has one built into his kit. Moris different from the Ebony would retain their features.
- Spirit would have to be reworked in a way that does not make her "unfair" for survivors. She can be countered, not going to deny that, though it is mainly based on luck, guesswork and meta perks like Iron Will. Every killer should have a way to counter their power even without perks. I'm ok with her retaining her map pressure though. Maybe give her a much longer cooldown, if she is to remain like she is now.
- Instadowns need to go, or be reworked in some way, depending on the killer, so that they cannot be abused (unless they come from perks, like Haunted Grounds or Devour Hope). Huntress would lose Iridescent Head. Billy would have to wait 1:30 (duration is debatable) minutes between a succesful Chainsaw slash and another, while still retaining the newly introduced overheat mechanic. Same for Leatherface, who should have 2 charges instead of 3 and a cooldown of 40 seconds (also on successful chainsaw hit), to make up for the fact that he does not have as much map pressure as Billy. Myers should have the EW III effect active for 40 secs instead of a full minute, and the Iridescent add-on Fragrant Tuft of Hair should make it last longer, not forever (like 1 min and 20 secs). Ghostface can remain as is, maybe get some form of increased lunge. Oni is also ok as he is. While is not an instadown, Freddy should see his power charges reduced to 6/8 for Dream Snares and 4 for Dream Pallets, so he should be some more strategic and not spam pallets everywhere.
- In general
If we are to keep crossplay between all platforms other than mobile, console should be brought on par with PC, as far as frames go. Especially considering the fact that the upcoming graphical update could make the situation even worse. Guess that's all, for the moment. Hope nobody sees me as being too killer-sided or survivor-sided, since I had enough points for both roles. Though I reckon that is going to be a huge gamble, knowing this community.
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@Endersan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1561337#Comment_1561337
My only problem is that everytime they see someone using ds they make a post about it. I never make anypost about tunneling,camping killers. So why can't they do the same? And if they don't tunnel=no ds no bt.
They just have to change the way they play so we won't use ds and bt. In the current state ds and bt is necessary.
I guess that games need to be a bit longer, for that to happen. If that is to happen, there will still be cheap players, playing exactly like they do now, on both sides. Though I hope things can change. But yes, killers generally cry about stuff their "playstyle causes". The toxicity that was brought into this game with crossplay made me use DS for the first time since year 1. I always refused to use stuff like DS and NoeD. But, as I said, killers are making it a necessary evil. Not to mention the spamfest that being against a Billy/Clown/Freddy/PH/Doc actually means.
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@AvisDeene said:
Same reason Survivors complain about NoEd, camping and tunneling. Entitlement.
Except that there's truth in there. Playing both roles, I know how much of an annoying, unbalanced thing SWF is (never been in a full SWF team, though). But, having the killer chasing you forever, downing you because he got Bloodlust, then possibly facecamping you because you made him mad by wasting so much of his time (which he could have used by hunting somebody else) is not fun, either. While playing survivor, I want to do everything I can to earn some points. I want to cleanse totems, I want to open chests, I want to work on gens, heal AND get chased. Not ONLY get chased, until I die because I turned 95. And I don't want to go down with a single basic attack either, because the killer had the perk that those who know will not be able to stop gens bring (NoeD). As a solo survivor, I almost always cleanse 3 to 4 totems, sometimes even 5 all on my own. But I can't go looking for totems on the entire map all on my own, in every single match. Until solos have a way of telling how many totems are still present in the map yes, NoeD is actually a crutch. And I think the same about DS and DH, some easy stuff that everybody uses. The difference is that, with like 95% of the killers I've met relentlessly chasing the same guy, then tunneling and camping him (and, before you say anything, this applies to both console and PC), DS becomes close to being "mandatory". When killers' behaviour will change, decent survivors' behaviour and perks might change as well. But until then, nobody likes being chased for the entirety of the game.
EDIT: And please, be rational about what you say, and don't give me the same recycled answer "the killer's job is to kill, he doesn't have to care about your fun. As much as survivors don't have to care about the killer's fun blah blah blah". If people start to get tired of the game and its community, what do you think will happen? I don't think that hitting air gives any bloodpoints, does it? As much as kicking gens with no progress is not going to regress them.
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@xxDeathwishDW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1559358#Comment_1559358
Dude we just made it balanced like these 3 peep said. I think it's not strong anymore? It's a hex, sacrifice only 1 person per match, additional long cooldowns etc etc....
Whatever allows for a skip, and isn't even a one time use perk, is always going to be too strong. Look at how everybody uses DS. If this perk is ever to become a thing, EVERYONE will use it. The never ending gen rush issue would be turned the other way around. So, as I said, creativity is nice but no.
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@yakul1nausicaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1559346#Comment_1559346
A perk that requires two other perks to be somewhat effective/lasting is not a good perk imo. This should be a cooldown only perk, most good survivors won't hug the nearest loop after being hit.
Neither of those perks are REQUIRED, they're good to create some synergy. And, let's be honest, survivors have Any Means Necessary, which is a seemingly good perk, but the times it can be put to good use are rarer than a pink unicorn, cause no killer is ever going to leave a pallet lying down. Not all perks can be useful in every single situation.
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@xxDeathwishDW said:
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Hex : Fast Approach: Your connection with Entity is getting stronger without an interruption. It's starting to give you different ways to hunt your victims.
You start the game with 3 passive stacks.
After hooking a survivor, one of your passive stack transforms to a active stack.
After hooking another survivor, you can use Fast Approaching by pressing (?) button to bring the survivor to another hook stage.
If the survivor is in the "First - attempt to escape" Phase, the perk will immediately summon the Entity on hook.
If the survivor is in the "Second - fighting with the Entity" Phase, the perk will give the Entity a amazing amount of power, making the survivor sacrifice immediately.
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Okay, so I know it's a VERY VERY powerful effect, so I decided to nerf it with these thingies:
- You can't use the perk if the survivor already suffered from it.
- This perk will have 180/160/140 seconds cooldown.
Pick the true vote that fits you below! Also, don't forget to write any other ideas.
Edit: THE COMMUNITYS' IDEAS:
Made it a hex totem so it can be destroyable.
Edit v2:
If the killer uses it for a sacrifice, he/she will no longer be able to use it for a sacrifice.
Added 40 seconds to cooldown.
If the Killer uses it for a sacrifice, +10 second extra cooldown will be added to normal cooldown.
Edit v3:
Once per survivor and 4 stacks... Fixed it!
THIS POLL ISN'T ANONYMOUS BTW - OTHERS WILL SEE WHAT YOU VOTED FOR.
While the idea brings some nice creativity, this perk would be way too broken. Just think of what a camper would do with such a perk. You get to camp someone who you just hooked, maybe because of an instadown, while other survivors get close to try and unhook him. They waste their time, the hooked guy will surely die and not have any fun, and then onto the next prey. Think about how this would completely destroy solos and turn the game into SWF ONLY. Though, with all the ideas that other people implemented, I could potentially see it becoming a thing, with the +10 cooldown if used for a sacrifice becoming a +15 per use, no matter the hook stage, and survivors not dropping in hook health if the killer is near a certain radius. But that would be a needed game change, not related to the perk in itself.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I think either the effect should be stronger or it shouldn't be a hex perk. This perk has FOUR measures to counterbalance it.
Hex perk
Cooldown
Limited Range
Prerequisite - Hit a survivor
I get that blocking pallets is a strong effect and there needs to be some limiting factors but as usual for BHVR they have gone overboard. The way it is now the killer will probably only have the effect happen once before the totem is cleansed and it will be irrelevant anyway since they just hit the survivor and dropping a pallet after you are hit is generally not a good idea. If they keep the cooldown, limited range, and prerequisite hit condition then I don't think the hex is necessary at all. On the other hand if they choose to keep the hex limitation then I think they can afford to be more generous in other areas. For example, infinite range and lower cooldown.
I find it to be insanely strong as it is. You seem to be forgetting about the new Hex: Undying, which transfers this Hex to another totem, possibly resetting the cooldown. And, even more importantly, about STBFL. I don't know how much more use killers want out of a single perk. I mean, I like it, probably gonna use it for a while and see how it performs. But to consider it needs to have unlimited range and/or block windows too. Come on, man. Aren't endless chases and Bloodlust enough to get you a kill, already? Don't mistake me for a survivor only player, I just don't like tunneling done to me, so I'll try and not do that to other non-toxic folks.
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Well, I keep getting hit over corners by both hatchets and chainsaws. And I mean solid corners, without any space. As much as I keep getting hit over windows I am already far away from and used pallets, with the killer being on the other side of them, of course. So yeah, hitboxes are still broken. Can't really see much of a change from how it was before, honestly.
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@Xbob42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1558549#Comment_1558549
I play almost exclusively solo queue survivor. I almost never see killers facecamping or tunneling, although I do get teammates crouching in bushes when I get hooked quite frequently.
You must be an extremely lucky guy haha! All I get is either teammates who do nothing while I get chased or who unhook you right in front of the killer (without Borrowed, of course). Last day there was a single gen left, and I was alternating between getting chased and repairing a gen which I brought close to being fully repaired, on my own. When I got hooked I saw that, of the 2 remaining survivors, a Nea was crouchcamping in a corner of the map, and a Dwight was camping behind a building. After some time and getting the gen close to being complete, Dwight finally decided to help me (oh, and those two were SWF, they confirmed it to me). The killer was coming, but I kept pushing the gen, knowing too well he would chase me again. Guess what happened then? Dwight opened the door and escaped immediately, without trying to unhook me. I kept the killer busy all game long, and that's what you get in return :D
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@Xbob42 said:
I don't think I've come across a single face camper in over a month.
Have you been playing alone? I'd like to be able to tell the same. But people are being cheap every match, I am afraid.
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@Dito175 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1534807#Comment_1534807
Is there any way to tell wich platform your teammates are on?
Yup, do as I do. If you are on console, you can search for the given player's tag on Steam. Otherwise, you should be able to look for their profile on either Xbox Live or PSN.
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@ExcelSword said:
I'll start this off by quickly addressing console killers. The latest patch has really poor framerate for you that drops below 30fps, so I understand if you opt out of crossplay, this post isn't for you.
But for you survivors, please give crossplay a chance. you are NOT at a huge disadvantage going against PC killers.
With a controller and relatively stable framerate, you have near the same skill floors and ceilings as PC survivors. I play survivor on PC with a controller and can handle it just fine, and I was an Xbox/PS4 player for two years before moving on to PC. All the mindgames you can learn are still there, M/KB doesnt give an innate advatage to PC survivors.
Yes, you will see more killers like Nurse or Huntress, and no you wont't be getting away with as many 360 spins as you used to. But that doesn't mean you are disadvantaged, You aren't trying to throw a hatchet at the Huntress before she does the same to you, the killer using a M/KB doesn't affect your ability to loop or your game sense.
I know most of you are good players, since I was there with you. Crossplay is great for this games activity and playerbase, quick matches and more variety of killers. Please, don't be turned off by 5k hour Nurse horror stories. We PC survivors have to deal with them as well, and we keep playing this game. Calling for blocks with PC will hinder all the effort crossplay is trying to achieve in the first place.
Personally, I disabled crossplay and I will avoid enabling it again, if I can. There has been an outburst of Ebony Moris since crossplay came out, and most of those were PC players. Then, not pointing my finger to PC killers only, but I got tunneled and camped way too much with crossplay active, not to mention NoeD. Most importantly though, the thing is you have 60 stable frames, while we have 30 or less, with a Sloppy Butcher basic attack almost freezing our game. And yes, other than mouse sensitivity enabling some easier 360s, there is no real difference between console survivors and PC survivors. The real issue though, the difference that matters (and that was not mentioned) is that between PC and console killers. Surviving someone who chases you until a new mayan apocalypse comes is hard enough against people who suffer your same frame drops, let alone against people with more sensitivity, better performances and possible external programs like adding crosshair to Huntress (which I hope, and think, is not very common). In few words, console survivors are at a disadvantage against PC killers, and PC survivors have an edge over console lillers. Until we too get stable framerates and killers hoepfully lose Bloodlust (since it was there to counter infinites, which are no longer a thing), crossplay is a no for me. The loss of BL would also lead to fewer palletsx ofc.
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
Survivors need to hold a button down and occasionally wait to see if Spine Chill goes off. They can also see each other at all times and where killer is too. Survivor experience is boiling water for noodles.
Killer has to find hidden players with almost little to no indication they're there, chase them down with zero errors, hit them twice, hook them thrice, against 4 players, that's now 12 hooks. And they need to do it in under 5 minutes. That's 3 hooks a minute. Killer experience is being trapped inside a pressure cooker.
That's just mathematical, but you're not considering a few things. Killers have Ruin, until it stays up, to "kick" gens for them. They have BBQ, Rancor, Nurse's Calling, Infectious Fright, the upcoming Dragon's Grip. All things which effectively do the killer's work for them. Not counting killer specific powers like Doctor, Legion, Plague (as you know where they are, when they purify), Demo and PH.
And no, survivors do not have the ability of seeing their auras at all times, unless they bring Aftercare, specifically. Yes, killer is a relatively more difficult experience. But chasing the same guy forever is not that difficult, ya know.
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@MotherOfRaccoons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1551883#Comment_1551883
I don't mean "chasing you endlessly until the last gen pops". I mean hunting you down fast, then again as soon as you're unhooked. Then one last time. If I do this when there are still 2-3 gens left, it's almost a guaranteed win. I can deal with the rest of survivors later.
Look, I don't care at all how it makes you feel. Tunneling one survivor as soon as possible is one of the best ways of playing. Your happiness is up to you. I got a job to do ;)
Also, don't generalize and say "killers cry about genrush". Smart ones don't. I don't blame you for doing your objective. I just do my best not to let you.
That's gotta be one of the most self absorbed statements I have ever read. No wonder everyone in this community is so toxic.
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@momkisser said:
I constantly see dumb ass killer mains tunneling, camping, and down right being dumb as hell because they're mad at survivors. They constantly use gen rushing or SWF as an excuse to do these things but what else are survivors supposed to do? Doing gens is the objective, why are you mad? SWF shouldn't even be an issue. If you can't counter a well coordinated team that says something about YOU as a killer. YOU'RE bad. Survivors don't owe you easy games because you're too brain dead to do your job efficiently. Survivors shouldn't have a disadvantage because they want to play a TEAM BASED game with their friends and work as a TEAM.
The thing is, gen rushing is a bad thing for the general health of the game, as much as being camped, tunneled or chased until you die of old age are bad things for survivors. There should be something that tasks survivors with stuff like parts for the last 2 gens, and Bloodlust should be removed altogether. Less pallets around the map, without having dead zones though, and killers becoming gradually slower the longer they chase the same survivor.
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@Xbob42 said:
You know, the idea that the survivors get at least one easy escape for one person and that the survivor "earned" that escape and "you're not entitled to 4k" is weird, because there really isn't a (non-perk) mechanic for a killer to secure at least 1 kill. If all four survivors escape, they don't toss you one of their friends because "they don't deserve to all escape." They'll often teabag at the door until the end of the EGC if you don't come and push them out.
One side gets a built-in win mechanic while the other gets a big middle finger.
That's kinda true, in a way. But still, killers are not the ones getting tunneled and chased for 30 minutes.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1553409#Comment_1553409
Ok, no, you're missinterpreting me, I do not sweat for the 4k, but I'm a good killer, I get a 3k+ almost every game, this post is not for me to get "help getting the 4k", it's for survivors to get a feature to avoid getting slugged, I f I have 2k, and I find the 3rd surv, who is on death hook, I slug for the 4th and that 9/10 games ends in a 4k.
I think you guys think I want the 4k, no, I don't want to slug people to get the 4th surv, I want a fair stand off against the last survivors for both roles to have more fun, that's it.
Are you actually ok with being slugged instead of hooked? it's a 60 seconds to 3 minutes dying wait while slugged vs a 60 seconds on hook your know?
You keep acting like every killer wants a 4k, otherwise he's gonna stop playing. And you keep saying you are not one of those killers, yet you wouldn't even have started this post, let alone insist so much, if you weren't. Get over with it, pal. If there really was a survivor who did nothing for the entire game, it means that you played an entire match against 3 people, instead of 4. If they managed to get to the point where the hatch was shown before opening, it means you played badly. Enough is enough.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1553066#Comment_1553066
Am I missunderstanding? Are you saying survivor is harder than Killer? It's funny how I talked about a specific feature for a more specific situation and you went everywhere in the game programming, maybe this will clear the water:
If you can escape even when the killer got the chance to look for you while the 3rd hooked player was struggling (second state) by being stealth, yes, you outsmarted the killer (in this case the no hook suicide feature ONLY FOR THE 3RD SURVIVOR AND ALREADY WITH A 2K), but, if you got a hatch escape 5 seconds after the killer decided to hook the 3rd player when he could've slugged him to get the 4k and decided to be nice by hooking the 3rd surv, that's unfair and a cheap feature in the game. If you're not ok with this changes that would help BOTH ROLES (no 3rd survivor slugged helping survivors vs no insta suicide on hook to give hatch away helping the killer), I guess you like being slugged for the 4k, nothing to change here
Yes, you are misunderstanding. I never stated one of the roles is harder than the other, at its core. What I said is that killers have more "tools" to be toxic at their disposal, which also influence the outcomes of the match. Survivors t-bagging or pointing at you are toxic, but that does nothing to change the flow of the game. They are not preventing you from doing anything you could do, other than perhaps leading to you getting triggered and deciding to tunnel them. Being camped or chased until you go down, even if it takes forever, on the other hand, is preventing you from playing. Every killer acts like the survivor they are chasing stole their daughter's virginity. Another time, hope I won't need to draw that... Crouchwalking and avoiding the killer when he is going to hook the only other survivor alive, is not outsmarting anyone. You seem to misuse that term a lor, maybe you just like the sound of it, idk.
Here, let me aid you:
Outsmart
/ˌɑʊtˈsmɑrt/
to obtain an advantage over someone by using your intelligence and often by using a trick; to outwit.
As you can see, both outsmarting and strategies are things that require actual THINKING and PLANNING. As much as there is no thinking nor planning into camping, which does not make it a "strategy", as many people like to claim, there is no real thinking put into crouching or hiding in lockers, other than avoiding being tunneled to death, because you know that someone who complains about the hatch is not going to let you go, even if you were the only non toxic person amidst 3 more who, instead, were. And I can't really see how that would help both roles, either. The whole slugging the 3 survivor to kill the 4th argument only comes from people who think they are entitled to always get a 4k, no matter what. So no, it would only help self-absorbed killers to get a 4k, because they feel survivors should have no chance whatsoever.
Now, if you can provide me with any actual insight and reasoning as to what you are claiming would be fair for both roles, would indeed be, I can listen. But if you just want to keep going on with this charade, stating that something that is only born out of killers behaving like that would cease if they get a 4k just because you feel like it, I'mma sign off.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1552980#Comment_1552980
I can't geneaize, and I think you shouldn't do that either, you cannot state % of people acting specific ways without actual stats, you can talk about your experience, or even your friend's experience, but stating a 90% of database does something is way too radical.
Now, I completely disagree, if the killer managed to get a 2k and hook the 3rd one LIKE I CLEARLY STATED, the killer outsmarted the survivors...
Yeah, it is based on my experience, just like I crystal clearly wrote. But pretty much every single killer I meet plays like that, and I played with a lot of different people. Also, while killers camp, tunnel, chase you forever, only attack if they have instadowns, slug, only play with easy killers like Spirit and PH, survivors have DS, DH, SWF and flashlights. You can clearly see who has the most obnoxious instruments at their disposal. All of the things killers can, and will do, will make a difference in the game. DS usually ends up in survivors getting caught again a few seconds later, and DH does not even work properly, lately. (If you think I should have added BT to the list, no, I shouldn't have. If you gave the survivor the ability to have BT active, it means you were either camping or close enough that you are now going to tunnel him). Once again, no, the killer hardly ever outsmarts anyone. And that is also because the game is made in such a way that killers have most perks doing the work for them, instead of them actually "outsmarting" someone. If you have Nurse's Calling, it finds healing survivors for you. BBQ does the same, in a different scenario. Ruin makes gens regress without you having to kick them. All the while you keep chasing the same guy forever and ever, favoured by something that shouldn't be a thing since when infinites were rightfully removed, Bloodlust. Now please, be clever and spare me the usual catchphrase that "I must be a survivor main who never played killer", or viceversa, 'cause that would mark the end of the discussion for me (anything along those lines also counts).
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@Carlosylu said:
Slugging is a valid strat to secure the 4k cause we feel unfair that the 4th surv gets to leave without actually working for it cause a guy suicided on hook (lets himself go) knowing their teammate knew where the hatch was.
Now, READ PLEASE, I think most killers would be willing to stop slugging the 3rd survivor as long as suicide on hook, when 2 survs are left, is taken out of the game in order for killers to have a bit more time to look for the 4th prey, with the exception of suicide on hook against a camper, where it could be a feature where the survivor can only suicide on hook if the killer is camping the hook with only 2 survivors alive.
This way, getting the hatch would actually be a challenge for the last survivor when the killer clearly outplayed the survivors with "fair play", as survivors call it.
What do you guys think?
The thing is, most of the time, killers do NOT outplay survivors at all. They just keep chasing them forever, until they finally get them down because of Bloodlust. That is not outplaying, not at all. And trust me, in my experience, 90% of the playerbase does that, even more. And, as much as I like a 4k while playing killer, you people who always bring this point up forget (always) about two things:
1 - Being the last survivor alive does not mean you did nothing the whole game. You could have gotten way more points than the others and kept the killer busy for a long time.
2 - Nobody is entitled to a 4k EVERY SINGLE game. If one survivor did well, just accept it, try not to be toxic and even allow them to go, from time to time. Of course, the last survivor could have done nothing. I just had a match where I kept the killer busy, while also working on the last 2 gens while he was busy looking around, and the other 2 survivors were crouch camping near corners of the map. But you people tend to label everyone with the same brush. Survivors who escape through the hatch are not always worthless players. If anything, also because of their teammates, it means they had no other way of escaping, that match. Stop with this biased argument.
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@Damarus said:
Don't know if that's a thing anywhere else, but on PS4 the first page for the Wriath's story is not shown. The audio starts, but I find it too low to be heard. The only text it shows is "auric".
Oh, and I can't upload a picture of it. There is also another bug, apparently, that prevents me from getting to the current volume page, since I completed all challenges of this Tome and went back to previous ones.
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@AvisDeene said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1550587#Comment_1550587
As long as he isn’t preventing them from completing objectives he wasn’t forcing anyone to farm. They could always go work on gens and open the door or suicide on hook.
@OP- I’ve had similar players in the past. They just found farming boring and would rather get in chases, which is understandable- people have different ideas of what is fun. So if you find someone like that again, just play normally with them.
Well yes, I do understand that. But I never thought someone would get mad at me for letting them go. I could understand getting mad for cheesy stuff like Iridescent Head, NoeD and camping, but getting mad because the killer is being nice for once? Isn't this community toxic enough already? I sometimes ask people if they are ok into helping me do annoying challenges, and nobody has ever complained. And some stuff is just really hard to do it normally, you know? When the Nurse's Tome will come out, it won't be an easy task, on console. she is close to unplayable there.
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@Demonl3y said:
Forcing others to farm is bannable so you problay CAN get banned for it.
I didn't force anyone. I asked and they agreed. And they were all SWF, they were even standing together and that same Feng brought me to other survivors. Doesn't look like anyone was forced, to me.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
This has been a long-standing thing for years. Using a controller and using a mouse & keyboard are completely different skill-sets.
One thing that I would like to see these PC elitists do is actually pick up a controller, plug it into their PC's and see how well THEY do.
I've been playing console for 18 years, and I've never seen so much prejudice towards console users. I mean, we're all gamers and we have enough sh*t to deal with externally. I don't see why we now need to divide OURSELVES further.
That's because of the famous catchphrase: "PC master race". Most of them think they are better than console players just because they used all of papa's money to build a tuned PC. And sure, those same elitists also think to be better than console players in everything they do. Other than FPS being way better on PC, giving them an edge, I can't really see much difference. All I know is that this game became even more toxic, since crossplay has been enabled. And most of the toxic killers I find are PC players, since I bother checking their profiles on Steam or XBOX live, before pointing my finger. Don't know about survivors though, don't feel like checking them all.
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@JesterClown said:
So I checked in on the forums today because of the rush of activity from a new killer. I checked the new perks, survivors got a meh, a situational and a a strong perk. The new killers perks sound extremely bonkers to me. I think the new hex perk is kind of overhyped as a hex build type thing and also soul guard exists. The other two perks seem kind of strong. And of course, with every new strong addition to killer or every new weak addition to survivors, people come to the forums to complain about both the weak survivor perks and strkng killer perks.
I wont deny that the killers perks are strong but to say that its “making the game unfair for survivors” or “killing survivors fun with every new update” thats just overreacting. Are killers not supposed to get strong perks anymore, according to dome posts, killers have no build variety, which is untrue but even if it is, arent these perks what you wanted to shake up the meta.
Its not like these perks are uncounterable, dragons grip looks like its made to counter gen tapping, and the other two perks are hexes, which have already existing counters in the form of soul guard and inner strength. Its not like these perks are uncounterable at all.
Getting upset that the survivor perks are meh is very funny to me because killers have gotten used to getting bad perks with every new killer ever since plague while survivors have had many arguably strong, yet overshadowed perks. I shouldnt be surprised that survivors are upset, but please, cant you just let killers finally have strong perks to work with.
Well, playing both sides, I would complain about how these killer perks are so much superior to the new survivor perks. What you said about those perks were exactly my initial thoughts. The only one that is really going to be useful is Desperate Measures, which serves as a counter to Thanathophobia. Visionary is just bland, probably thought for newcomers. Still, Deja Vu does the same exact thing, with the only difference that it works when a gen gets repaired and at the start of the match. Built to Last is the situational one, which is probably only ever going to be used for the Adept achievement and by flashlight users (and that, of course, is not a good thing). On the killer side, I think all 3 perks are actually insanely strong. I didn't feel the need for more instadowns to be added to the game, and I think many of those that aren't perk related should go or actually have long cooldowns or inferior durations. I wonder if, (god, I hope not) Haunted Grounds is going to synergize with Undying (meaning that a Haunted Grounds totem gets destroyed, survivors become Exposed, then 2 other totems become Haunted Grounds again). This update, however, brings forward the fact that all survivors should know how many totems are still up even more than before.
I do not agree with the statement that "killers haven't been getting good perks since Plague was released", however. A good perk does not necessarily have to be so OP that everyone will use it because it makes for an easy game. I'm All Ears is a good perk to know where survivors are. Thrilling Tremors is a decent perk that is used to know which gens are being worked on, rather than actually block them. Mindbreaker allows you to down survivors who start rushing gens because they have Adrenaline, instead of getting healed. Cruel Limits, while not extremely useful, will limit survivor pathing. Blood Echo is actually a very strong perk, countering every Exhaustion perk for almost a minute. Nemesis is kinda a niche perk, but still very useful when you are running an obsession perk based build. Deathbound means survivors are unaware you are coming for them for 60 seconds, unless they have a clear line of sight. Dead Man's Switch can actually have its usefulness, giving you time to hook a survivor and then come back for that PGTW. Of all these perks, only Demo's and Deathslinger's are the ones I have almost never seen used. This does not make them worthless or bad perks, it just means that, as always, people throw themselves at stuff that is easier and gives them a significant edge. There are lost of perks for build diversity already, and some of the least used ones can be really good in conjuction with others. It's just that 99% of the players in every community, and especially in this game's one I'm afraid, are cheap AF.
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@6yXJI0 said:
Talking about interaction with Iron Will.
Just make Iron Will completely negate Stridor, as it was intended from the beginning. Why should one perk completely counter another?
Boom! Easy solution, no?
As i said. Spirit is fine, but her interaction with Stridor isn't.
The problem with Spirit is not Stridor, it is how she works. It is skill, more precisely, the lack of it. You hardly ever need to mind game or predict as a Spirit. Her map pressure is ok, but the whole guesswork that her power brings is not ok. Every single killer should have a way to counter them WITHOUT perks. You can avoid and disarm Trapper's Bear Traps even as a level 1, perkless survivor. You can crouch and avoid activating Hag traps, even as a level 1, perkless survivor. This thing should be true for every killer. At the moment, it is not true for Spirit, not like it should be for Freddy, who can pallet spam too much, not for LF, who should have 2 charges, not 3. But especially with Spirit. She is the least difficult killer in the entire game, specifically because of guesswork. You're hardly ever outplaying anyone, as a Spirit. It's survivors outplaying themselves, because they have to guess. Of course, killer mains love that and abuse her, but that is not healthy, nor should it stay as it is. Her power should be reworked, or be given a much longer cooldown maybe together with the inability to use it while in chase. She would still retain her map pressure and be able to surprise people, but her guesswork would be gone.