Damarus
Damarus
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@vladspellbinder said:
I've been playing a lot more Survivor than I normally do as of late, trying to work on Survivor challenges from the Archives. Being a Killer Main I normally only play one Survivor game a night but the past few days I've been queueing more and more just to try and get these things done and I just don't understand how anyone can stand this [excrement] enough to play it as their main mode for this game.
Camping Killers. Tunneling Killers. The same builds on the same Killers over and over again or even just playing against the same Killers time and time again (looking at you Mastermind). Solo Queue teammates standing in corners while healthy doing nothing or hiding in lockers when the Killer isn't around or about to hook someone. People not committing to gens or unhooks or heals giving the Killer free downs and pressure.
I just. How do you deal with it? How do you ever have any fun?
Exactly what @Pulsar said. If you want to play survivor and are not in a full sweaty team where everyone knows how to play, forget about having fun. That's not what videogames are for, after all, right?
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@Ryuhi said:
How are you not weaponizing the topic when you're implying that its changed only as an excuse to nerf, rather than an actual valid reason? Its not even killer specific since flashlight macroing affects survivors with photosensitivity issues just as much, while you're literally turning it into a partisan issue in the post you're telling people not to.
Because it is an excuse, that's pretty clear to anyone who stops to think about it for even a mere second. They could have simply made it so the flashlight blind effect became what it was years ago, prior to the changes THEY decided to make. It certainly didn't cause any epilepsy back then. Or they could have lowered the brightness of said effect. But nah, we get a lame excuse for a nerf that has those who suffer from epilepsy only as a welcome side effect of a decision that isn't based on that.
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@gregbydaylight said:
Like seriously I hear so often
Toxic Survivors and Toxic Killers but really from my experience playing I've seen some genuinely nice survivors and killers than I've seen the opposite
I always hear a side getting blamed but honestly sometimes Killers play a bit more aggressive because they were clicked at and butt danced the match prior
Also maybe the survivor is clicking and Butt dancing because they were slugged and tunneled the match prior
I also find the double standards a bit funny. Base kit unbreakable is so horrible because it's meant to combat Slugging yet fast Clicks being gone is good because now survivors have yet another way of getting back at the killer removed
On the one hand I'm happy as killer players with epilepsy problems will be much safer but
Maybe give us back DS so it isn't useless and least this way we get some sort of satisfaction from getting back at the killer for playing so annoyingly
At the end of the day I play both sides I see the struggles and fun of both
I typically only Tunnel and Click/Butt Dance when the opposite side decides that being annoying is fun
Because it simply doesn't make any sense. Yes, maybe people do play like you said. Maybe killers "play a bit more aggressive because they were clicked at and butt danced the match before" and maybe survivors do the same due to a similar reason. Those people become part of the problem just as much as those who acted that way towards them. If someone beats you up, do you go beat up another random person that had nothing to do with the guy who punched you? If you are stupid, yes, you do that. But if you have some common sense, you can understand that you only need to be toxic against people that are being toxic towards you, in that moment. That's what I do when I play killer. They are toxic? They're gonna get it. The survs WERE toxic in a match before the one I am currently playing? Why would I be toxic towards those who had nothing to do with it? No, killers tunnel, camp and are toxic just because the game allows them to, as they need very little to no skill at all, especially when not facing a full sweat squad. And survivors who act toxic for no particular reason do so because they are in a SWF and want to be the typical keyboard lion. It's really simple as that, and also sad as that.
As a side not, flashlights getting nerfed because of epilepsy is just the fastest excuse BHVR could find, as said epilepsy would simply be the result of the new killer blinding effect they added some years ago. Why not revert it to how it was, simply? Why not tone down the lighting on that? Nah, better to dress it up as something else. It doesn't make a real difference to me, as I don't normally use flashlights. But with this you can see how transparency isn't really a top priority to them.
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@AcelynnBen said:
wanna know why, BECAUSE EVERY GAME IN HIGH MMR IS SWF
every game. EVERY SINGLE ONE THEM, and all with borderline 2k 3k hours on dbd
like seriously what type of game am i suppose to play when i don't even get the chance, no wonder nurse is being spammed, seriously can u play a single game without 4 gen regression perks?
im sorry but im gonna start tunneling too, yes im casual but to wait 4 mins just to face swf every time is really not worth playing nicely, and yes just because i play casually doesn't mean i don't wanna win (something this community will NEVER understand)
MMR was probably the worst idea to ever grace dbd, mmr works for pvp games with balance things, this game is far from balanced AND ITS 4 V 1 yes i wanna play against a bit of competent survivors but to get punished for playing GOOD is something beyond my understanding
wanna know the worst part, TTVS are actually streaming with their cheater friends...yes i've seen it im not gonna name any because i already reported them (no answer so far) but seriously we reached the point of people streaming cheaters and not getting banned, that's something i've never seen
and honestly soloQ players are just the victims of this, swf is seriously seriously a giant problem in this game and when people say just limit it only duo
yOu gOnNa pUnIsH PlAyErS FoR HaViNg fRiEnDs?
so u enjoy going against a nurse and getting camped and tunneled every game? (clearly not since everyone is complaining about it)
i've always played nicely since i started playing this game, always saying that survivors need to play the game too, but honestly, what's the point, yes they are playing the game but what's the point of letting them play if they are just gonna end the game in 5 mins and go wait for 10 seconds in queue while i wait another 4 mins
PS : keep the "skill issue" or "git gud" to yourself, ty
Pretty much every single killer player tunnels and camps, be it in high mmr, low mmr, against people that just started playing and against survivors who are literally worse than a bot on easy mode. High MMR and SWF really make no difference in killers being toxic tryhards, although I would gladly have SWF limited to just 2 people, followed by multiple nerfs to killers.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206141#Comment_3206141
I was going to address your points, but after reading all of it... this is either a massive bait or you're actually delusional. The sad part is that I can't quite figure it out which one it is, but this is some S-tier comedy material. A copypasta if I may so.
To be frank, I am quite pleased that you are not going to address that. Not only because I know that you were not going to say anything factual, but also because that just further reinforces the fact that you don't really know what to say. Let's leave it at that then, shall we? Everyone is happy.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3205075#Comment_3205075
"Camping is still very strong" - they literally added a strong anti-camp perk which is seen in most of my games. It punishes camping, albeit I can't say by how much.
"The BT buff only really hurt hard tunnelers, and not that much." - how do you assess that? It's literally now a difference between making to a pallet and window and not (you couldn't even make a shack window with an old base kit BT). This is a massive difference and can literally extend chases by 30+ sec and win you games.
"Do you have any stats about the current state of the game?" No, but it doesn't take much intelligence to figure out that the 61 % number is very likely to be lower after significant survivor buffs. I can't tell you what that number is now, but we can safely assume it's lower just by looking at historical patch notes. If you have arguments to prove otherwise, then say so, but I won't wait another 6 months for killer stats to discuss balance changes :) And will also not use likely-to-be-outdated statistics to discuss current state of the game.
"I swear, your strategy seems to be 'I don't care about anything unless it suits my narrative' here." thanks for remark, but you seem to be getting emotional here.
LOL what? Reassurance seen in most of your matches? Buddy, I haven't seen that once, not even on full teams of Rebeccas. Don't spread fake news just to give yourself something to talk about. Remember that you are just a single person, not the media, there is no need for you to say fake stuff or make it bigger than it really is, as you have no need to get views. Now, to your other "points":
- Because the base BT only really allows you to put some distance between you and a killer who will, more than likely, tunnel you again. And until the game remains like this, where even the weakest player will eventually get you because of Bloodlust ALONE (no skill involved), there is no denying that. And that is IF you manage to get to a pallet, considering some terrible maps can even generate no more than FIVE pallets. FIVE. Hear me? FIVE. But I guess that thing didn't make it in your brainstorming.
- Even if said numbers were to be lower now, and I can assure you that they are not, since every single killer is a sweaty tryhard nowadays, 61% is still a tad too much for anyone that considers the wider perspective of a game's general balance, and not only that of the side they play because they like to have it easy. 61% kill rate is way too high. 61% escape rate would be too high, although the vast majority of killer players deserve to suffer.
You want killers to get BUFFED? When they have 55 different gen regression perks, while survivors can only really count on a few good ones? When there is the Nemesis' perk, Eruption, which makes you not do ANYTHING for TWENTYFIVE seconds? When now gen regression perks not only don't need you to kick gens, anymore, but also tell you where survivors are, eliminating even the hunting part of the game and reducing stealth even more than the awful state it always was in? When killers can still hit you on the other side of a window you vaulted 2 seconds ago and were already far from? When the perk excuse you are using, Dead Hard, still doesn't work much of the time, just like old Dead Hard? When the last 3 gens can still be next to each other, and a sweaty killer will make a match like that last ages more than it should? When stuff like 3 genning and exit gates being next to each other shouldn't even exist? When you are rewarded for failing to hit a survivor in 15 seconds, so you become faster? Buddy, trust me, get a grip on reality.
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@buffcoyote said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197646#Comment_3197646
I don't post for usefulness. I post for me. But I very much agree with what you've said.
What I meant to say with that was not that you are not allowed to voice your opinion on the countless flaws this game has. Just that it really won't change anything, as those who play like that don't care and the devs are unable to make things right.
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Posts like this are useless. Don't get me wrong, I hate campers and tunnelers, and I think they shouldn't simply be allowed to play, on any game, as the only thing they can do is going the cheesy easy no skill way and ruin the fun of everyone. But they don't care, because they are self-absorbed, because they are noobs, because if you take the easy way out of the game, they end up doing nothing even when facing bots on easy mode who are also afk. That's the truth. They are the reason why this game's commuity is so toxic, the reason for you to have the most fun on DbD when you turn it off, and there is no denying that. If and when BHVR will finally balance the game properly, these people will, more than likely, rid us of their unneeded presence.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196671#Comment_3196671
It still gets you off their shoulders. It's still an anti tunnel perk. Crazy that I'm suggesting you should be mindful on where you go down, right ?
Crazy that the killer doesn't really allow you to decide where you do go down, right? Almost as if he is trying to kill you, when he tunnels, and you are more than probably FORCED into a given direction. Couple that with the fact that not everyone plays SWF and boom, you are up in a dead zone, with no pallets, as they have probably been wasted by someone who didn't even loop around them. Man, crazy world we live in, huh? A world where some people act as some know-it-all cocky keyboard lions. But maybe you are right, the next time I get tunneled, I'll try to ask the killer if he can wait to down me where I would want to be, that will surely work out just as you picture it.
Let's put it like this. Basically, what you are saying (which, by the way, makes no sense at all), is something along the lines of:
"I have to take an exam at school. The teacher will ask me stuff, but there are things I don't know. But if I tell the teacher to ask me a specific question (that I know), he will surely do as I asked." I mean, please, come on.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/347437/is-tunneling-easier-than-ever-now
DS isn't dead. You just have to be smarter where you go down. People liked to go down wherever and use the 5 seconds to get somewhere. Now you just have to be more mindful of where you go down. Get to a pallet or god window and continue your chase.
LOL what? A perk that was conceived with the purpose of acting as an anti-tunneling perk (and even then, it still didn't do it too efficiently) has to be paired with a specific place in mind to go down? Are you for real, buddy? So you are implying you need to use an "anti-tunneling" perk by wanting to get tunneled in a determined spot? It's something that should help you NOT to get tunneled, buddy, it shouldn't matter even if you get downed in a corner where there isn't everything but 50k hooks.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190133#Comment_3190133
There may not be anything wrong with USING Dead Hard but there is something wrong with the game if you need to run a single perk every game to be allowed to play and have fun.
🦆🦂
Yup, mostly on the killer side. It looks like every single killer player sweats harder every time, as if losing a match or not getting all 4 kills will have a negative, unrepairable impact on their real lives. Almost as if they would die outside of the game, if they weren't to sweat more than 50 russians in a sauna. But I agree on that, and that's something that is widely known at this point. BHVR just tends to put band-aids overy everything, instead of solving issues in the game for good. And about Dead Hard, there are so many occasions in which it simply, for no valid reason, refuses to work. It did prior to the change and it still does now.
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@[Deleted User] said:
them being comfortable with survivors escaping only 39% of the time on average is big yikes tbh
at what point are killers just being carried by oppressive gen slowdown perks like jolt, eruption, pain res and overcharge? rather than actual map pressure and playing skillfully
inb4 "but dead hard" i dont use dead hard and never have :)
There still isn't anything wrong with using Dead Hard, not when every single killer tunnels you. I've had a guy tunneling me for 4 gens straight today, and I was a Yoichi who was just going for the adept. At one point, the killer will get you, and it will either be because you ran out of pallets or thanks to Bloodlust ALONE, without any skill being involved. Survivors have that ONE perk to try and stay alive for a little longer, when killer can camp, tunnel, spam their abilities and all the cheesy easy stuff. And I am talking as a solo survivor, mind you. 4 men SWF should have never been a thing, in the first place. If that was the case, maybe, just (and that's a big) maybe, killers wouldn't be so toxic and unskillful.
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@jesterkind said:
Much as I agree that solo queue needs improvements, I'm not sure what they could do to fix those specific problems? People giving up and the risk of getting just generally bad teammates are kind of the unfixable problems with solo queue, the stuff they can actually do (like increased passive information sharing) aren't really going to stop those things from happening.
Probably not, but at the very least, having Kindred base for all survivors would be a big jump. And that's just one of the things that could be done. Whenever they will actually start thinking, instead of locking useful stuff behind perks that SWF doesn't need to use.
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@BlazePyron2 said:
honestly i think something drastic needs to be done to survivor mains and bully squads to fix the community of this game. Maybe something like every time you play a killer game, you get a token and you have to spend that token to start a swf game. Or like every 15 survivor games you have to play a killer match or something.
people need to be forced to see the killer experience and how painful it is to play against bully squads, some of the nicest survivors i meet are the ones who also play killer an equal amount. Killer is extremely hard to play at high ranks and im tired of surivvor mains being absolute brats
There is so much that could be done, to make the experience EQUALLY enjoyable for BOTH sides. On the survivor side, they could (and should) make it so the maximum SWF size is 2, not 4, and add some limitations. Like only 2 Boon perks can be brought into the match, 2 flashlights, maybe remove keys from the web and make it so they can only (rarely) be found inside chests, while removing green keys altogether. On the killer side, they should make tunneling and camping near impossible (if not under very precise circumstances, like EGC), both when it comes to survivors and gens, remove the chance to have 3 gens very close to each other and have exit gates ALWAYS spawn on the opposite ends of the map, never at a distance of 2 steps one from another. If I spend some more time thinking, I can probably come up with something else, but this kind of stuff is so easy to think about. No idea why it wasn't done ages ago.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3159655#Comment_3159655
Yes DBD isn't RE. Sol why did they try to implement RE with the zombies? The simple fact is, the stuff Nemesis does works just fine for DBD.
Cause they were trying to give such an important license something unique, maybe. Stuff gets stale and ideas tend to be lacking, when you have created so much stuff, which means that you need to recycle old ideas into something somewhat new (if you can't think of anything else). But that still isn't the case for DbD, as there isn't so much stuff involved. Give them room for something different, when they can. There is already so much tunneling and camping for all of the killers, at least powers can be different.
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Buddy, this is just nonsensical. The game has LOTS, and I mean LOTS of flaws that still need to be addressed, but this is just so unnecessary. Nemesis also has a tentacle, that grows back, and that he uses to catch people and/or infect them (iirc). Sure, I don't recall seeing him use it as a whip against said people, but so what? Dead by Daylight isn't Resident Evil, buddy. You don't have guns, let alone ammo to use here on humans (survivors), who also still remain technically alive when killed. It doesn't have to be realistic, otherwise it wouldn't be a game. Wesker has Uroboros, just like he had in RE5. I am not going to say that BHVR is extremely good at doing it (the other way around, actually), but a videogame needs to be balanced. If you had Wesker running around as he could do in RE5, where would the balance be? Limitations have to be put somewhere. If Predator is ever to come to the game, would you cry about him not having any trees to climb on top of? If a Xenomorph was to come as a killer, would you complain about survivors not screaming "it came out of the f**king wall" every time they saw said Alien? I mean, come on, have some common sense here.
Now, I agree on the fact that Feng and Felix's skins suck, and I would never buy them. But that's the neat part. They are OPTIONAL cosmetics, nobody is forcing you to buy them. And if they got created, it means they were approved from Capcom. Same as the HUNK skin, which I love, personally. Because I love the character, and I am happy to see him put to more use than the limited one Capcom has had in store for him. Sure, he could have been a survivor, too, but so what? It doesn't have to be exactly as depicted in the franchise he comes from, under every aspect. If it was to be like that, HUNK would have to come out as a skin that doesn't let you get sacrificed and allows you to kill the killer, if you are a survivor, or someone that simply wins you the match, as a killer.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3155297#Comment_3155297
There you go with the belittling. I know life goes on, but I have considered cutting DBD out of my life on multiple occasions because of blueballing and reward denial like this being baked into the game. It's not abnormal to want to win, and not just by the skin of our teeth which is what a 3k often feels like.
I am not belittling anyone, I am just stating facts, buddy. I don't feel the need to get a 4k every single time, when I play killer, nor do I feel entitled to escape every single time I play a match as survivor. Now, should that never happen? No, of course not. Should it be the top priority of your matches, leading you to cry if it doesn't happen every single time? Neither. Just like "pipping" means you won, so do 3 kills. If you feel like that is "by the skin of your teeth", maybe you need to change your mentality. After all, you are just someone who is sitting on a chair, it's not even close to something that requires a physical effort.
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Actually, the reason for killers to slug the 3rd survivor to kill the 4th, too, is simply that they cannot conceive a match without 4 kills, because getting 4 kills is the most important thing in their lives. You could have the room in which they are playing getting flooded, they still wouldn't stop playing until the 4th kill happens. When you are a normal human being, tho, you play as the match happens. If you find the hatch before the survivor, nice (you might even consider giving it to him). If you don't, then he escapes. But, unlike those who desperately slug for the 4th kill, your life will still go on as normal.
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@illNicola said:
With the next update, the basekit bt will be increased to 10 seconds, and 10% of haste, with bt this will be 20 seconds, that it is really unfun in my opinion. Devs want to punish killer for tunneling and camping, but they never asked themselves "Why killers camp and tunnel?".
The answer is easy: because in high MMR is the only tactics accepted to win against 90% of the survs, because the insane gen speed (caused also by prove thyself, that needs a huge nerf).
So I have a question: why Devs continue to find ways to punish killers for tunneling, instead of find ways to incentivize mixed hooks?
In my opinion, they could make that more survs alive, less gen speed, less survs alive, more gen speed. This will fix tunneling, because you don't want a surv dead early game, because it would mean giving survs more gen speed. At the same time, you don't want to camp for the same reason, if you kill someone early game you find yourself with survs that do gens quicker.
Because if something is unhealthy and should have been done better, it doesn't need an incentive to not do it. People do not have to be "convinced" not to do it, it shouldn't simply be a thing, period. That's why gen times were increased, and could be increased even more, if survivors are allowed to live a little longer. There is so much stuff that should be deleted from the game. Tunneling, camping, 4-men SWFs, 4 toolboxes with BnPs, 4 flashlights, bloodlust, spammable killer powers.
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@katoptris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3144691#Comment_3144691
Douglas confirmed it wasn't him on his social medias.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CgzwfdDPQMy/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I see, thank you for the heads up!
@Smoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3144691#Comment_3144691
As of now it's unknown who it is, but ever since the first RE crossover, bhvr have been hiring voice actors for both Killers & Survivors from a site called The Monster Factory, which is also where BHVR got Wesker's voice actor from.
Does this mean that Pinhead too isn't voiced by his original actor, Doug Bradley?
Edit: Just checked, Pinhead is still the man himself.
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@Smoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3144282#Comment_3144282
It's not Douglas who voicing wesker in dbd thou.
Isn't he? It seemed pretty on point with the tone, so I assumed it was him. Who is it, then? Is it that random guy who I saw on YouTube doing an impression of him, almost begging BHVR to have him dub Wesker? And how can you say it isn't him, got any official word of this? Just asking out of curiosity.
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@Chaellooo said:
They gave him plenty of voice lines and a couple of his iconic ones. Such as "Seven minutes is all I can spare to play with you." I think the actor did a great job.
I mean, I am excited to get D.C. Douglas reprising his role as Wesker's voice actor. But, am I the only one to whom said lines sound like, I don't know, a less emotional version of what they were in RE5? It almost feels as if he didn't really want to do it, for most of the lines.
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There is a LOT that could be done better to balance the game out, for both sides, or at least to get very close to a proper balancement. At this point, I think the devs simply don't care, or they wrongly consider the word "asymmetrical" as inherently meaningful of an unbalanced experience. I mean, I have some ideas to improve the game, and I am not even a dev. I lack the ability to implement such things in the game, which they have. But, on the other hand, they seem to lack the ability to think of these things, which I have. It doesn't really surprise me that much, as playing a game will give you a good understanding of it and how it could be improved. And that of playing the game is another difference between me and the vast majority of the devs, it seems.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141333#Comment_3141333
No one is saying you can't dislike being camped on the hook.
Just that you aren't being prevented from playing the game when it's happening to you.
It appears that you and me have a very different idea about what playing a game is. If you enjoy staring at the screen and consider that playing, suit yourself. I don't, nor do those who have some common sense. What you are saying, in this regard, is that even a loading screen is playing the game, then.
And remember that I am not just talking about dying on the first hook, but of being camped to death, on that first hook. Those are two very different things.
P.S: I used the term "dislike" as an euphemism of what killers actually do and say about BnPs and so on. They don't limit themselves (or should I say yourselves) to "disliking" it. I don't see why it shouldn't be the same for survivors. Except that, as always, the killer is never being actually prevented from doing anything. And only the killer.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141056#Comment_3141056
That just tells me you're going against Survivors that don't like any kind of impedance.
Nothing needs to be done about slowdown Perks, they're all fine.
3-Gens and in the Survivors control. If they can't deny them in the early-game, they deserve to deal with it
True, up to a certain point, 3 gens are in the survivor's hands. What is even more true, however, is that something like that should not even be a thing. You shouldn't have to know the game perfectly, to understand where every single gen is. You shouldn't have to play SWF for that not to happen, cause you have no idea which other gens your other solo teammates are working on. As much as exit gates should NEVER spawn so close to each other that the killer can just walk from one to the other in 2 seconds, or camp above a small hill that allows him to see both levers, without moving. The doors should always, always, always spawn on opposite sides of the map.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141221#Comment_3141221
Dying on first hook is a part of the game. If the devs didn't want survivors to be able to die on 1st hook they could simply remove the ability to transition between hook states and force needing to be hooked multiple times.
Well, so a full premade SWF with BnPs on everyone and all of them running meta perks with second chances for the entire party is still allowed, I don't see why so many killers dislike it then. Really, is there anyone who uses some reasoning here, or am I destined to yield less success chances than those I would have if I tried teaching maths to a wall?
Give me a second, I'll try to phrase it in a way that is easily understandable:
If something is part of the game it doesn't automatically mean that there is nothing wrong with it.
There, should be everything-proof now.
I could develop a game and put in it a weapon that automatically wins you the game if you pick it up, or something that makes you deal quadruple damage for 5 minutes and makes you invulnerable to damage for the same time, combined with the damage. I put it into the game, so it is part of it. Doesn't make it any more justifiable, nor does it mean that it isn't a flawed "mechanic", or something that should have never seen the light of the day.
I mean, up to this point you people should already know how few of BHVR's devs play their own game, and how even less of them get to the "important" ranks, to truly understand the game fully. But if they put something into the game, it's gonna be flawless cause it's there, is it? It's a rethorical question, there is no need for you to reply to it. Unless you are gonna put some sense into said reply, of course. But I doubt it. You are probably gonna tell me that something like "a killer killing 4 people 2 minutes after the game has started, without moving from where he spawns, is totally ok, cause dying is part of the game".
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3140183#Comment_3140183
When one side enjoys it and the other does not, when one side only cares about winning and refuses to consider the bigger picture (balacing the experience for both sides, in this case), it's usually not called a videogame, but war.
Well i did a little experiment for roughly two years until last December and played intentionally fair for survivor and played for 8 even distributed hooks with intentional avoiding camping and tunneling even to my own detriment no matter the situation.
And oh boy are survivor out for war. Way more than 50% of all that time didn't anyone care about my fun and if i wasn't matched with lower skilled survivor, even getting to 8 hooks was a pipe dream.
Survivor aren't any better than killers but somehow hypocritically expect more from the other side.
Never said survs are better, I have always been against campers, tunnelers and SWFs players. If you take those things out of the game's equation, most of the community wouldn't be able to stand a chance against bots, let alone players. The thing is, it becomes a vicious circle. If someone plays like a di*k because somebody else did, it never ends (or better, if someone plays like a di*k against players that haven't behaved as di*ks). How do they say it "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"? I appreciate people like you. Hell, if they played fair and struggled, I'd even give myself to be hooked. There is so much the devs could do to fix many things in this game, but they refuse. Had I been a dev, I'm not saying those things would have 100% fixed the game, but at the very least we would have known what could have been and what would've changed.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3140183#Comment_3140183
Maybe they'll make some sort of ruling clarification regarding blocking people in a corner, explaining how it is not normal gameplay.
Maybe they'll do the same regarding cheating.
Perhaps a petition to the devs is in order for them to also emphasize during the portions of their video tutorials that discuss/explain hooking/phases/etc that being hooked IS NOT a part of 'gameplay' despite having the game running and being listed on the server as an active participant in the match.
I'm also down with investigating people that are not able to contribute to all of your listed categories as they are clearly not playing/being prevented from contributing!
Someone needs to tell these devs what gameplay is and how their game works!
You are still purposedly failing to see the point, aren't you? Being hooked is a part of the game indeed. Being CAMPED and FORCED TO DIE on the FIRST hook is not. Jeez, I really don't know how much simpler I could make this for you to understand. But then again, if you fail to do so on purpose, not much that can be done. Some people never listen, after all. If that's how you are, fine, but spare yourself and me the hassle, and end our one-sided conversation here.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3140003#Comment_3140003
Being on the hook. As well as being chased("tunneling") are both part of the game. You are still playing the game. Despite what your feelings are on them
Both tunneling and camping have their time and place. They both are indeed strategies. No matter if you disagree or not.
Flawed reasoning. If someone blocked you in a corner for the entirety of the match, back when Twins could do it, you were still inside the match. Didn't mean you were still playing it. But I am used to these forums, where there will always be people who, in spite of common sense, will think of their ideas as right. I'll try to elaborate this further, should be simple enough to understand:
The game is, first and foremost, not free. So I expect to be able to play entirely something I paid for. With that out of the way, let's move to the main stuff:
Survivor gameplay is, or at least is intended to be about
- Being chased;
- Unhooking;
- Reparing gens;
- Healing yourself or others.
These are the main things, with some extras along the way (totems, saves). If you get to play only ONE of those things, you ARE NOT being allowed to play. Think of it along these lines. Someone who cheats is technically still playing the game and, probably, winning. Does it mean he wins because he deserves to? Is it really him playing, or is it something else doing it in his place? Is he playing the game, or using something to make an advantage for himself AND ruining the fun of others? Videogames are meant to be fun, for both sides. You can win, you can lose, but you should BE ABLE TO ENJOY IT, whatever the case. When one side enjoys it and the other does not, when one side only cares about winning and refuses to consider the bigger picture (balacing the experience for both sides, in this case), it's usually not called a videogame, but war.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3137632#Comment_3137632
Killers also hate body blocking, flashlights, pallet saves, DS, hook sabotage, etc. When are we going to address those?
Very unfun to go against, results in total denial of hooks, preventing the killer from acheiving their main objective.
This is a pvp game, your not supposed to enjoy it when the other side win. Your supposed to play well enough that they don't.
Except that, as always, tunneling and camping aren't even remotely close or equal to what all of those things are. If you bodyblock, use flashlights or pallets to save, have DS (that has been gutted) or sabo hooks (do people still do that?), you are not PREVENTING the killer from playing. If you get facecamped, what do you do? You stare at the screen. If you get tunneled and chased until the end of the world as we know it, what do you do? Is the game a running simulator?
Taking a hit to protect a survivor is a strategy. Tunneling and camping are not. They are just the equivalent of "I'll do whatever is easier and takes no effort". Just like people who only play in full SWFs.
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@supersonic853 said:
To be fair. That is how metas work. You remove one another pops up. There will always be a "best" build. Thats why they plan to do the meta shake ups as much as possible. (They said this on the last one near the bottom) so they are aware of needing to constantly change the meta.
A meta, although I highly despise what it entails and all the players who only ever play "meta" stuff, means that something is stronger than something else. It shouldn't mean that something is extremely strong and pretty much everything else sucks to the point of being a hindrance, which is what DbD has been for most of its lifetime. That is just wrong.
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@SuzuKR said:
It's a strategy, the base counter is also a strategy: Making use of their lack of pressure on others to slam gens.
You are not meant to have a hard counter to a strategy, that is bad design. Even things like Reassurance can be prevented by killing a survivor before they get close enough to activate it. Hard counters take precedence over skill, which is bad.
Ahhh man, people still go for this stuff. Camping, standing still, is NOT a strategy. A strategy is, and always has been, something that requires thought, planning. A strategy is a means (that might not work, otherwise it would be known as a certainty) to an end. Waiting for someone to die while in front of him, or while doing small lapses around him, is NOT a strategy. One could MAYBE argue that, although cheap and pathetic, tunneling is a strategy, as it gets a weaker survivor out of the picture. But standing still? Never. Cheapness and strategy aren't the same thing. And skill, by the way, is exactly what lacks in the aforementioned camping (and tunneling as well). Hell, the vast majority of both killer and survivor players in this game have no idea about what skill is, not even the slightest hint.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2822847#Comment_2822847
The biggest problem I have in discussions like that is that I know bhvr and I don't trust them to fix the face camping problem without screwing us over because there are times camping is just the right call
Sometimes, yes. But, to me, those times are only when the exit gates are already open OR I happen to pass right beside someone who will be dead in seconds. Other than that, nah. But yeah, if the past can teach us anything, is that things here are always bound to go the other way around, instead of improving.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2821399#Comment_2821399
I hate tunneling to but survivors are able to stop you playing to. Since the blessing of mmr it happens more and more you get players that are way over your skill level and they love to 99 the last gen and then play with you preventing every hook. Sure I can still move but at that point it wouldn't make a difference if I go afk or hang from an hook
Well, I'm not saying that, as a killer, you have all of the freedom in the world, but it still is different from what you won't be able to do as a survivor. If you look it from a point scoring perspective, the killer is still free to earn them with a variety of actions that can also touch various categories. The camped survivor, on the other hand? He's just done with every single thing. His game experience just turned into a "mash buttons to give your teammates time, unless you don't want to. You're going to die anyway".
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2821399#Comment_2821399
I see where you are coming from, but play enough and the law of averages will take hold; for every time you are face camped, there will be a time one of your teammates is camped and you're essentially ignored by the killer for a good portion of the match. And full on camping doesn't happen every match, or even close to.
I am no fan of face camping, to say the least, but if we can take a step back from these single experiences and view them in context, it isn't so bad.
That said, the one part of the current meta that makes it harder to swallow are the often insane surv queue times. No one wants to spend 10 minutes in queue and then be bounced from the match in 3. But that isn't the killer's fault.
Well, no, queue times are another wholly different thing, but still one of the things that plague this game. And sure, I agree with you, even other players will be facecamped, sometimes before me. But I am no hypocrite, and I don't like that even when it happens to others. Plus, even when that is happening to others and not me, there is still at least one part of the game that is being denied to me, which is the chase and (maybe) an escape from said chase. It sadly doesn't work either way. And the worst part is that, at the current state, it's hard to fix the game in a way that makes it fair for both sides.
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@scorpio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2818695#Comment_2818695
It isn’t toxic to play to win. Some survivors seem to think the killer owes them a fun game/it’s the killer’s job to ensure the survivors have fun. Yet, survivors have no problem ruining the killer’s fun. Sure, the killer can still play, but if the fun is sucked out, does it matter? It is not the killer’s job to make the game fun for you, that’s on you and your teammates. Some killers actively try to make the game more fun and that’s great, but they don’t have to and it isn’t toxic if they decide to play optimally instead. It‘s just such an entitled mindset. You are not owed free escapes, loops, gens, etc. The idea that playing optimally is toxic is just ridiculous imo and completely misunderstands what toxicity actually is. Optimal play can be annoying and unfun, but it isn’t toxic.
I agree, I am not entitled to free escapes or hatches. But I am entitled to HAVING THE CHANCE TO PLAY. Which is why camping shouldn't be allowed. Because, you know, the game is bought, not given for free. Unless, of course, you'd find it fair if survivors would have the ability of completely denying the killer any movement and hits. Not to mention that why does a killer camp? Because he thinks he is entitled to get kills, otherwise he wouldn't really need to resort to cheap stuff. Oh, by the way, playing to win isn't related to being a noob and doing noob things. Even those who use macros/cronus on online shooter games are doing it to win, yet it doesn't mean they aren't being toxic or unfair. Words have precise meanings, and you can only try to fool people who don't actually know said meanings.
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@INoLuv said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2818695#Comment_2818695
The killer plays around the hook system in the way that he wants, is part of the gameplay and is perfectly fine, even if is boring for one side, which is not a bad thing for a multiplayer online game and is the only killer strategy that a killer has that works sometimes in the current meta; at the end, it is gameplay of the killer if he wants to protect the hook or not, not toxic in any way, shape or form. Fortunately for you (and the people complaining endlessly about), it will get nerfed, so the complaints will end soon on the future.
Ah, no, it really isn't fortunate for me, as I stopped playing the game a few months ago, but am still entertained to see how, no matter the game, it's always those who play the cheap way that defend said way of "playing". Nah, I don't think it will be nerfed, sadly, otherwise this game would incur into the serious issue of actually becoming enjoyable for solos. Following your "logic", even Ddos is fine, because in games that are coded poorly and have no real defense against it, it is allowed. You want a more "part of the game" thing to argue on? Fine. Playing against a full SWF, all with meta perks like DH, DS, BT, flashlights or BnP toolboxes. Sounds like fun, right? But hey, the game allows it, so it is bound to be fine. Oh, and I'll wrap it up with this:
Strategy:
a: a careful plan or method : a clever stratagem
b: the art of devising or employing plans or stratagems toward a goal
As you can see, a strategy is something that requires active thinking and planning. "Me stand still, me wait this guy dead on hook" is not a strategy, but I can understand that using unappropriate terms makes it more fascinating for those who are used to it. ;)
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@INoLuv said:
In this game, the survivors can do their best to escape (as they should) and are not called "toxic" for it, but if the killer tunnels, camps and slugs for a 4k or 3k, or if the killer ever plays to get kills, he is considered a "sweaty" axhole who "just plays for wins" and toxic for being "unfun" and "boring" for the survivors; if the killer just get 2k or 1k or no kills, he will get mocked in the endgame chat with people bragging about how superior they are while calling the killer a "loser" and saying a bunch of things to make him feel bad. In the endgame chat, why be the most angry and extremely offensive person to the person playing killer? As if you NEVER had an escape before.
The killer should not camp in any way possible, should not bring "unfun" perks for the survivors, the killer should simply play killer "just to enjoy the chase" and "not caring for kills", sort of shaming the killer for playing optimally or the way he want; again, camping at 5 gens is not "toxic", tunneling to guarantee the kill is not "toxic", slugging for the 4k is not "toxic" and the killer is not the worst human being on the world in real life just because he played in a way in a online videogame. And no, camping does NOT need nerf, all of the other killer strategies are already dead with the new meta and camping only works depending on the situation and determined by how experienced the survivors are. Even then, the killer should play how he wants without being shamed for it, be him a basement bubba or a killer that simply uses noed to feel more safe.
The survivors can play the way they want to escape or whatever, the same can be applied to the killer, is simple as that. People already shame killers on youtube a lot, like making compilations thrasing on the performance of killers while bragging indirectly. But it seems that the behavior is encouraged.
I personally defend the killer on the endgame chat when i play survivor (i mostly play survivor), i don´t see how the mob mentality against a side of the game with the least mains is considered appropriate.
This argument never seems to end, so i'll just give the usual reply. A survivor who rushes gens is not preventing the killer from playing. a tunneled survivor will only earn some points in two categories, at best. When he is camped, he will simply stop doing anything. As a camped survivor, you won't be able to heal (others or yourself), repair gens, cleanse totems, bless totems, use pallets, vault windows, stun the killer, escape the chase, engage in a chase, save others with a flashlight, unhook, open exit gates. You are DENIED everything, and cannot plat anymore. As a killer, that cannot happen. You will always be able to hit survivors, chase them, down them, chase them, hook them, destroy pallets, snuff totems, use your ability. And that's a whole lot different. That's why killers who camp are (rightfully) called toxic, because they are. And people who can only play in SWF groups are just the same, but they still don't have the chance of denying the killer anything, from scoring points to simply MOVING. Now, if this game was something along the lines of "stand still simulator", there wouldn't be a problem with it. But for something that you need to buy, all of that should not happen. And the players who allow it are just as much part of the issue as the devs who refuse to address it properly.
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@Dionysus42 said:
These are legitimate strategies that are part of the game and will NEVER be removed 🙂
If you can't have fun because of them, there are plenty of other games to play, like Metro Exodus, Dead or Alive 5 Last Round, The Sims 4, Propnight, Crystar, Bright Memory: Infinite, Command and Conquer 3: Red Alert, Rabi-Rabi, Fire Pro Wrestling World, Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN-, Koihime Enbu, Skullgirls, Deus Ex, Portal, Half Life 2: Episode 2, Alan Wake, Alpha Protocol, Bayonetta, Boson X, Crisis in the Kremlin, Pathologic 2, The Void, Sleeping Dogs, Life is Strange, Way of the Samurai 4, Insurgency, Left 4 Dead 2, Splitgate, ATOM RPG, Eternal Senia, Divinity: Original Sin 2, Fallout: New Vegas, Wasteland 2: Director's Cut, Europa Universalis 4, Drifter, The Silver Case, Honey Select 2, and Civ 6.
Stop being a survivor crybaby and just enjoy the game.
I thought these posts were done for, being in 2022 now/almost 2022 the time you posted this. But hey, I thought we were also over people thinking that walking after the same guy, like drones, was something you can call a strategy. So I guess I was wrong. Sure, people that are bothered by those things beyond belief are free to change game. Doesn't make those things "strategies and tactics" all the same, though. And I guess survivors can simply tell you that "Playing in a full SWF, all with meta perks and flashlights, with instant healing and a key is a strategy, so stop being a killer crybaby and just enjoy the game". Strange. That catchphrase still doesn't make those things strategies or something that doesn't bother killers npw, does it?
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I am going to say that camping, in any form, is just bad. Being told so by people who got away should also mean that they were speaking without any salt involved. That is not to say that whoever is salty does never have a fair point, but in this case even that cannot be argued about, as they had no reason to be salty (unless it was a full premade). That said, although I am a fan of not being toxic as a survivor and as a killer (unless the other side is toxic to me), at the end of the day nothing chanes for you. So just ignore it. Make sure not to make camping a habit, tho.
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If they want to make it back, they should amp it up and correct the numerous flaws the game has had since memory can recount. Just look at Propnight, that looks much more fun than DbD has ever been, and it's only just a beta, atm. If they, hopefully, decide to release it on console as well, I'm all in to bid DbD farewell.
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@sniffedpustulas said:
Alrighty, so I recently had a game, where I decided to tunnel a particular survivor, because they weren't helping their team mates.
I was playing the pig and had four survivors - David, Feng, Jake and Jill.
During this particular match I played with the add ons which hide the boxes and everyone starts with a mask. At the start of the match I hooked Jake once. He went into the second stage (on the first hook) and died due to the mask. Jill went into the second stage on the first hook aswell. I later found Jill again and downed her, but didn't picked her up, because I hadn't hooked either Feng nor Jake and didn't want to kill her directly. I can't remember the details, but during the match I also hooked David once or twice.
At this point in the match Jill and David were Dead-Hook and Feng wasn't hooked once. I did run into Jill again, but she was still insured and barely had any chance to make any points, so I pretended I didn't see her.
Later I found Feng. I hooked her quite quickly. Then she got unhooked by Jill. Because Jill was still dead-hook I decided to go for Feng again, since she could still be hooked. And since both Jill and Jake and I think David went second stage on the first hook I figured that Feng wasn't really playing well with her mates.
After I hooked her again, she was unhooked from Jill and this time I went for Jill and killed her. Afterwards I found and killed David. Then I closed the hatch (they threw a sacrifice to let it spawn in the main building). I couldn't find Feng and she later died due to the endgame collapse.
Now this happened in the after game chat:
Purple is me, Red is Feng.
Do you think it was right to tunnel her ? What should I have done if not ?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZPBCUWSVW3UT/20211106231808-1.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GA596BQHOSXQ/20211106231812-1.jpg
I would personally enjoy a killer who goes out of his way to not tunnel, as scarce as those kinds of killers are. I mean, after all I am the kind of survivor who has his friends tell him where the random is, to lead the killer to him (when it's only me and the random), if he only hid and did nothing to help, either me or anyone else. I mean, yeah, it was tunneling, as you targeted that Feng directly, but you prolonged the game for two chaps that would have been dead on hook, while Feng would not. When I see those survivors, honestly, I would even consider letting the other guys go, David and Jill in this scenario.
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@stvnhthr said:
I would like to play with friends, but most give up after a week because they say the game is too hard.
I don't think the basics of the game are too hard, it is expecting a new player to come onboard and play long enough to get good while wading through all the toxicity and learning all the perks and add-ons.
My ideas would be to give them "training wheels."
Some ideas would be perhaps a cosmetic which shows they are new, like an armband or special skin which would disappear after 50 games of play. Along with the training wheels idea I would increase the skill checks good and great areas and have them slowly shrink as they progress. I would also decrease their struggle meter and increase the killer stun time on a shake free escape; again the struggle meter would increase as they progress. Perhaps one survivor or killer would be given to them with all the perks at level 3 for them to use for the first ten games.
I really would like to see new players try this game and stick around.
Honestly, the problem isn't attracting new players. With important collabs like Stranger Things, Resident Evil and Silent Hill, you are sure to draw in a lot of new players. The problem is KEEPING them. With the enormous amount of tunneling/camping and SWF, even veteran players do not have that much fun. What is a new player supposed to like, if so? You can like the killers, the franchises involved, you might even like the gameplay, at the beginning. But for how long can you cope with the game's flaws and its community?
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2614792#Comment_2614792
I dont agree. Killers mains are not toxic. I had really good chats with killers when I play survivor but not in the other way. No survivors had a good endgame chat with me as killer. Even if I tried to be nice by saying "gg hope you enjoyed the game" they still insulting me.
You must have been lucky, as I rarely find killers that aren't toxic. They don't necessarily have to be toxic in how they speak, but they can be in how they play. Either way, I feel you. A survivor once threatened to report me just because I asked, by sending a message, if they all were available to help me with a tome challenge, be hooked twice and then left free to escape. When you find those people, it's best to just ignore them. If you let them get into you too much, you're not going to have a good time.
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@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2611369#Comment_2611369
Tsushima has literally 0 FPS drops on my PS4 Pro. Never had a single performance issue on it. But god forbid if a survivor uses Dead Hard, that's like stabing the console in the gut.
I see... Way to go with their "console optimization" plans, then. Guess that, in the end, we're all just wallets to them.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Red Dead Online has a foggy day, my PS4 Pro's fans are silent.
Dying Light has fog, my PS4 Pro's fans are silent.
Dead by Daylight has fog, my PS4 sounds like a jet engine.
The fog in Red Dead Online and Dying Light looks so much better than the fog in DbD, too.
Battlefront II has forty players pitted against each other on a beautiful map with lots of visual effects and it runs just fine. Dying Light has smoke and fog and rain and flies buzzing around and twenty zombies coming at me in a giant city with me setting off fireworks and lighting crap on fire and it runs just freaking fine. The problem has never been the hardware.
To be completely honest, my PS4 started flying like a presidential airplane even when I had to simply press X to get to the main menu (on DbD, obv).
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@PerfectlyPink said:
Horizon zero dawn
Ghost of Tsushima
For honor
Sonic colors
Sonic forces
Risk of rain 2
Read dead redemption 2
Last of us
Last of us 2
Hunt showdown
Fallout 76
God eater 1-3
Star wars battlefront ea 1 and 2
Warhammer vermintide
World war z
Back 4 blood
Genesis alpha one
Orcs must die 3
Mafia 3
Mortal combat 11
Outer worlds
Divinity 2
Resident evil 0-7
Evolve
Warzone
Farcry 4,5, and primal
Tom Clancy Wildlands
Final fantasy 15, and 7 remastered
Paladins
Smite
Doom, doom eternal
Shadow of war
God of war 2018
And finally, the game that actually made me write this whole list because of just how insane it was that this game ran better than dbd.
Dbd, a 5 year old game with the graphics quality of a late PS3 game... Had worse frame rate, more hitching, and more crashes on last gen...
Than cyberpunk 2077
Wait, wait, wait. I still am waiting to pick up Ghost of Tsushima, but does it really perform better than DbD, whatever the console generation is? Man, this IS a big issue.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597757#Comment_2597757
Firstly, I'm not a killer main, dear survivor main. Unlike you, I play both sides, so I understand when the balance is being broken beyond repair.
Secondly, if Dead Hard was "broken", why did everyone still use it all the time? If the perk is OP when "broken", it's ridiculous with it's "fixed". It's like saying "the Blight is broken, he is actually supposed to be able to hit survivors on his first rush, let's fix him so that he is finally balanced!"
So all you are trying to do is to apply some outstanding mental gymnastics to defend your survivor main interests and relabel an unneeded buff of a meta perk to "a fix". Nice attempt though.
Why did people still use it, you ask? Are you sure you DID play both sides? Because, if so, you wouldn't be asking this. Let me tell you then, so you can fake "playing both sides" on your future statements: because it was useful, when it did work. Much more than Lithe could ever be. Much more than Balanced Landing could be. Because with the constant tunneling, it helped getting to some pallets that would have otherwise been too distant to make it to them, when it did work.
Any attempt at a reasonable conversation is wasted on these forums. There isn't a more toxic community than this one, thanks to people like you. It's like trying your hardest to try to reason with a wall, and said wall doesn't even realize to be a wall in the first place. One would be better trying to win all of the highest amounts in every single one of the world's lotterys, in the same day, than he is to see reason here. But hey, go on. I reckon you like to play the cool guy, where you can try to be. Oh, and I liked your ham-fisted attempt at trying to set me up as a survivor main, just because you were clearly advocating for a survivor nerf and I was against you. Your logic is flawless and on point, my dude. I wonder how people like Einstein would feel if they had know that such a brilliant genius was bound to be born long after them.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2592855#Comment_2592855
You can't compare hatch nerf with virtual immunity at pallets and with dead hard survivors now have. They added survivors a third health state.
Ahhh, the old point of killer main seeing anything that is balanced, compared to how it was before, as a nerf to them. You people should probably start to split your massive ego from the game and understand that this is a fix, nothing else. Dead Hard has been a broken perk for a long time, in the sense that killers would still hit you mid-animation (hence, mid invulnerability), even when the exhausted effect applied. A fix is a fix, not a nerf to killers. I'm not melting Norway if I put some ice cubes in my tea, during summer.
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@Nayru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2582943#Comment_2582943
okay..
but you're just wholly and utterly incorrect because at the absolute highest levels of play the killer virtually always has noed and a high-end result for them is to get like 3-4 hooks and a kill off noed - that's what winning looks like for the highest-tier killers in a lot of tournaments
i don't think comp killers that can deny a 4e to some of the best survivor groups that would trash a pubsquad in two minutes are 'truly awful'
nor random killers that have lategame oriented builds or a random noed amidst a bunch of low-tier perks, but i'll never understand the cult
Because it is a crutch, unrelied to skill. Much as Ash is in Rainbow, Master Yi/Yasuo in League of Legends, Spirit in this game, Mei in Overwatch, Rocket Launchers in Fortnite, and so on. You can use it, be godly with it (because let's be honest, none of the things I mentioned are even close to being remotely difficult). It still doesn't make you any good.