Damarus
Damarus
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@knell They are still considering about the totem counter, even though it has been "brought up many times" (including by myself), because killer mains are crying about it. Or, to better put it, incompetent cheap killer mains who pick NOED. About Kindred, even though it would only be fair to have all SWF info available to solo players, having a perk that shows you the exact position of the killer by his aura would be too much. But, on the other hand, Kindred only shows killers who are within a certain radius from the hooked guy, since they are camping. That would effectively reduce camping, and I would love that.
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It could work quite well, as long as survivors get a similar effect to give them the chance of being hit more than just twice after having been tunneled and a long immunity for having been camped. Of course, as others have already mentioned, PGTW would be too much with it. And I find the Ruin + gen regression combo to be a bit over the top. I think the max gen regression rate should be 150%, not 200%. Maybe something like 115/125/150.
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@Sneaky_Dwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/613944#Comment_613944
Accoridng to most Survivors, it's camping unless you across the map, close your eyes, and count to 50, as slowly as possible.
If you see someone near the hook before you leave, you must ignore them.
Camping is not a 'problem' or 'unfair'.
Nor does it need 'punishments' or 'tweaks'.
These are selfish, entitled comments by selfish, entitled people who want everyone to play the game the way THEY demand, and expect the devs to agree & change mechanics to cater to them.
Going from one extreme to the other. Nobody ever said you shouldn't go towards those you see going for the unhook. But saying camping is a strategy or that it isn't a problem... There are three possibilities here:
1 - You have never played as a survivor;
2 - You have played survivor, but have never been camped;
3 - You don't recognize this as a problem because that is all you do while playing killer.
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@Sneaky_Dwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/613944#Comment_613944
Accoridng to most Survivors, it's camping unless you across the map, close your eyes, and count to 50, as slowly as possible.
If you see someone near the hook before you leave, you must ignore them.
Camping is not a 'problem' or 'unfair'.
Nor does it need 'punishments' or 'tweaks'.
These are selfish, entitled comments by selfish, entitled people who want everyone to play the game the way THEY demand, and expect the devs to agree & change mechanics to cater to them.
Going from one extreme to the other. Nobody ever said you shouldn't go towards those you see going for the unhook. But saying camping is a strategy or that it isn't a problem... There are three possibilities here:
1 - You have never played as a survivor;
2 - You have played survivor, but have never been camped;
3 - You don't recognize this as a problem because that is all you do while playing killer.
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@Kerbert said:
Someone's a little salty. Let me explain this to you. The killer is not your tour guide or baby sitter. They are not here to provide you with a fun and joyful experience. Camping is a tactic whether you like it or not. Also a perk which removes points from someone else is entierely unfair and isnt the point of perks at all. Perks are meant to give you and/or your team an advantage. Making the opposite team lose points doesnt give you an advantage.
As much as making someone waste his time, because the only way someone can play is by camping/tunneling/both isn't fair. To each his own, I guess. Though, I must admit, you got me laughing. Calling camping a "tactic" is just a joke, right? You don't really believe into what you are saying here. Because that would be tragic. A tactic, or a strategy, is something that needs to be THOUGHT, PLANNED. Standing still in front of a guy until he dies is as much of a tactic as farting is. Over and out. That said, I agree, there should be no perk to make someone get less points. Camping shouldn't be a thing in the first place.
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I think it wil hardly become a thing, not if killer players keep avoiding it. Many times I have seen the proposition about a totem counter on survivor HUD, including ones from myself. Yet, there are always people advocating against it. And that's just ONE of the SWF info a solo survivor would need.
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@Dreamnomad said:
What difference would it make? Honestly. Chapter... Paragraph... they are just words. The Ghostface release would still be the same.
The difference rests on the fact that a chapter is supposed to bring in a new killer, a new survivor and a new map, while a paragraph only adds either a survivor OR a killer, no map.
And many people, like me, were extremely disappointed about not having Sydney Prescott added to the survivor roster.
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@Clockso said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/609813#Comment_609813
while i agree with you that solo survivors deserve a totem counter without a perk, swf have kindred for free and a totem counter if they're organized, but i remember hearing bhvr refusing to add a totem counter, i may be wrong but i remember reading in one of the discussions that kindred wont be in the baseline and so is totem counters, which is why im proposing for them to turn it into a semi-decent perk, just a quality of life buff
Yeah, I know. It makes sense that they don't want to add an aura reading perk that shows you the exact place in which the killer is for free, though it is the other way around about totems. Think about it this way, too: with base totem counter, you know how many totems are left, but not where to find them, whereas Small Game would do both. And even with a totem counter built in on the HUD, a solo survivor would still get less info than SWF groups, as you wouldn't know if someone else was cleansing where, when the killer found them.
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@PrincessPoop said:
Totem counter should be baseline, not added to small game. Small game will see more use when totem spawns become more hidden. Just look at the new badham maps; finding the totems on them is actually pretty difficult without it.
This should be a thing, totally. Though, totem spawns would need to be verified first. I don't want to run into another Ruin/NOED which can't be cleansed because of unproper testing.
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@indieeden7 said:
I love the idea but I really don't think a solo survivor should have to use a perk slot to get info that SWF get for nothing.
This, when will people understand? SWFs already have that info. Kindred is kinda in the same spot, but it at least SHOWS where the killer is to everyone, which is slightly more than verbal communication. Visual cues are always more accessible, IMO. So no, I don't think having the totem counter perk related would be good. Survivors are already getting nerfed over and over again, while killers camp, tunnel and instadown. Having to waste a perk slot just to know about totems would only make them weaker. If, on the other hand, this brings to a NOED rework/removal from pretty much every killer's kit, great.
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@TLToInfinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/609051#Comment_609051
Maybe it’s because the game is horribly imbalanced on one side. Ever wonder why spirit and nurse are considered viable, it’s because the maps and perks lean hard survivors at high tiers.
Yes, I agree, but not on survivor side. Not anymore. There are way more camping/tunneling/NOED killers than survivors who can loop/know what looping is. Hell, many killers go for all three combined, which is pretty sad. All we have now is nerfed Decisve Strike, nerfed Mettle of Man, nerfed Self Care and so on. While killers can keep thei precious "I can't do that on my own" NOED safe. Sure, some people might argue about Adrenaline. Every single one of the perks I just listed are not perks I ever used, nor do I plan to. Because I can play legitly, I have no need for the game to be playing on my behalf. Yet, the oh so big difference between NOED and Adrenaline is that one is "earned" through gen completion, while the other one is "earned" through not being able to do what you are supposed to. And don't forget about Billy, GF, LF and Myers players, who will never hit you unless they do so with instadowns, then bring NOED too. So, please, don't come telling me which side is not getting nerfed or unbalanced. And no, nurse is not considered simply as "VIABLE". Pretty much every killer, Plague aside (horrible MS) can be good, if THE PLAYER is good (tunneling, camping and NOED do not make you good, if you were wondering). Over and out.
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Thank you, @Peanits. Of course, I start with in game reports whenever that is due. Fairly rare bug, ok, I'll trust you on that. Sincerely hope it was the case.
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I stopped reading after you wrote "Plague does not need buffs". Anyway, I see LOTS of killer buffsand survivor nerfs (almost everything about survivors). Nah
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@Carpemortum said:
That's a bug. You wouldn't be able to escape either. Youd just walk past the door. It sucks.
But they werent cheating. Especially by some way of altering YOUR game.
Don't know about that, this was a first, for me. I wouldn't bet on the fact that people cannot do that, anyway.
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@Mister_xD said:
if you believe to have found a cheater, make sure to report them ingame.
additionally to that, you can fill a support ticket here: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/
make sure to add additional video proof of them cheating.
Thx for the help, I have all of what is needed.
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People seem to follow that "logic", but it is actually the other way around. Consoles are a sort of micro-computer, we could say. As you can cheat on PCs, so you can on consoles. It will take a longera path, of course, bur it is FAR from impossible or hard, for those who already cheat.
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I think Freddy should get the chance to use only 5 fake pallets at once, not 10. With 10, he can spam them cluelessly around the map, and you'll often run into a series of fake pallets. Dream snares can still be 10, though I would deny the chance of placing them right near gens.
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Hmmm... I would make it so killers who have instadowns at their disposal (Myers, Billy, Ghostface, Leatherface) cannot, by any means, get NOED in their loadout.
Chainsaw killers would need a cooldown to be able to use their chainsaw again, so they cannot spam it cluelessly. They either go for survivors and hit/miss or destroy pallets, then they have to wait a longer time than just a mere 0.5 sec.
NOED could be reworked into having other effects, or stay as it is, with the addition of a cleansed/active totems counter on the HUD of every survivor. And no, it wouldn't be a direct killer nerf. And even if it happens to be a nerf, whatever. Survivors keep getting nerfed patch after patch, time to make the tables right. Even now that EVERY SINGLE KILLER uses NOED, most survivors just don't give a fawkes about totems. Adrenaline could also be reworked into giving you the chance to heal other survivors much faster when exit gates are powered.
Bamboozle is fine as it is.
Plague desperately needs some more movement speed.
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@C3Tooth said:
Killer able to see dull totems if they have Ruin. They have to set Hex on a dull totems (5sec). Then the Hex is active.
There we go, Killer can pick a hard to find dull totem they want to set Ruin on it.
Nah, that would be game breaking, if you ask me. Think of this scenario, the killer has a hex he really wants to keep (Ruin, Devour Hope). He'll bring in Thrill of the Hunt, in order to have better chances at it. By having the killer choosing where to place said hex, it would mean he KNOWS which totem is where. I have already ran into Hag players stopping a chase over and over and over again, because they got the notification someone was cleansing the totem thanks to TOTH. Lingering effects could be a thing, though. I mean, not for all hexes, but the ones described by @brokedownpalace would fit. That would be another killer buff, though.
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@ABannedCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606433#Comment_606433
Its a 4v1, not a 1v1. By design, the killer is supposed to get you eventually.
But if they only focus on you, they will lose the game, unless you have braindead teammates.
I think he should get you because he can think of how he is going to move before he does so, not because of Bloodlust. So, I'd think about this as something that could happen in any situation. I like being chased, just not for the eternity or until I finally go down. With some killers especially, having a more reliable chance of hiding mid chase would be a much preferred option, if you ask me. But an OPTION, which means you can choose to keep getting chased, if that's your thing.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606433#Comment_606433
I wouldn't mind that.
It should be something you choose to make happen as Survivor though, since not everyone wants to lose the Killer (some people run keep-busy builds), so it'd have to be a Perk.
Well, I wasn't really thinking of a perk. I mean, if you want to be chased, you can always make it so the killer sees you as soon as he recovers, right? There are even people trying to get attention with flashlights, if you think about that.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606399#Comment_606399
He's talking about the removed VFX when a Killer got stunned.
Well, there needs to be a way for survivors to escape a chase stealthily, if they want to. Right now, either the killer lets them go or they get chased until they can finally be hooked. Of course, you can try to stop running. But a decently thinking player will know you won't be far.
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@Glipngr said:
You say I sound like a cheap killer main for saying people are responsible for their own skill and actions during a game?
Sometimes you get found right away and are chased, it's a normal thing that happens in this game and happens almost every game. If you're the first one found, that's just you being unlucky. If you can't outrun them, unless there is heavy lag or cheating, yes, that's on you for getting caught. DbD is a skill based game with a hint of luck on the side. It is entirely possible to run a killer around literally all game, so if you get caught, it's either you got outplayed or you messed up somewhere along the way. Sure, you can say that perks or addons are the reason you got caught, but those are tools at a killers disposal, and if you can't work around them, then it's because you weren't skilled enough to. As a survivor who has died to infinite T3 myers, Insta saw/hatchets, silent hag traps, face camping bubbas, pre-rework legion, auto-selfhurting trapper, and all the other frustrating stuff this game has to offer, it's entirely fair, as the killers had to work for those addons and perks and have a right to use them. Just like if a survivor has DS, Unbreakable, insta-heals, flashlights, and insta-toolboxes, they have a right to use those against a killer as they worked for them. There's no reason besides a skill gap that people die or people escape.
For your second point, how would a killer ever catch a survivor if they weren't faster than them? Seriously, did you even think that one through? How would a Legion ever get a kill since they can't down with their power? How would a Plague catch a survivor if they were sick and nobody cleansed? It'd be impossible. And hiding is a strat that many people use. Lockers block aura reading abilities, and urban evasion, quick and quiet, and lightweight all help with stealth. If people are failing to be stealthy, they simply need to get better at it, cuz most aura reading perks have very blatant activators like gens being done or hooks. As for the aura reading perks "playing for the killer," if all it takes is the killer knowing where you are to make you lose, you're just bad at the game. Part of this game is being able to run a killer around, and if you can't do that, you are just not skilled. Sorry, but chases are an important part of the game.
As for noed, I've already made a separate post about it, like I said I would, but I guess I'll humor you anyways. Noed is a second chance perk, and is given when you've already failed. The same way Unbreakable rewards you for being slugged, DS awards you for being tunneled, and Deliverance awards you for being caught. I know people will complain that they aren't even close to the same since Noed allows a kill, but what else could be given to a killer as a second chance? Bloodwarden is the only other second chance perk for killers, and is rarely used simply because it's inefficient.
Also, even with Noed, if a group of survivors are good, it will usually only get a killer 1 kill. That's a depip if the survivors played well all game. Noed is barely a problem due to the fact that it only activates at the very end of the game, and is still entirely avoidable by not running at the killer and getting instadowned. I've been killed by Noed countless times, but I realize I as just unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or overstepped what I should've done. Also, you could just get the totem after it spawns, and boom, noed gone. There's plenty of ways to avoid the perk, and it's usually those who just give up at the sight of it that think of it as "so op."
I said you are ACTING as one, but I guess it was easier for you to play the big guy than it was trying to understand writing. You're not really humoring any but yourself here, pal. Remember that lockers blocking BBQ is just a relatively recent add to the game, before that there was no way to deny it, since you were visible even behind gens, if killers looked carefully. Your point here is that I, or any other survivor, are bad at the game for getting found LOL. It is already clear that this game is now far from being designed to help stealth. Killers move way faster then survivors do, and you'll have to be moving crouched, more often then not, or you'll be in LoS even behind objects. Which means that, if you do not happen to have Urban Evasion, you'll move slower than if you were blind, on a wheelchair. When I said killers shouldn't be faster, I effectively failed to explain my point. Yes, they should have a slightly faster movement speed (and Plague desperately needs some), but Bloodlust is something that, as NOED, should not exist. About "groups of survivors who are good", you are, once again, acting like the game isn't mostly made up of SOLO survivors, like myself. I even destroyed 4 totems on my own in a match that happened just yesterday, but that an exceptional case. Totems are FIVE, I am but ONE. Without communication, there is no way to tell if other survivors are cleasning or not. You would have to check the whole map on your own, while constantly worrying about gens, killer and hooked/injured survivors too. You don't see how flawed that is, do you? Decent players have been asking for totem counters on the HUD, giving even more of a reason to find totems, underlying their importance. Yet not a single killer main wants to allow that. So, from a killer's point of view, nerfing is out of the question, providing info is out of the question, reworking is out of the question. But nerfing Decisive and MoM was totally fine, because they were survivor perks? I was ok with those perks getting nerfed, since I never used them, because of how much of a crutch perk both were. NOED is just the same, time to get some balancing both ways.
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There is no visual effect for stuns at all, you see all you have to. But then again, I didn't expect people not to have anything to say against it, after all, killer players are always whining.
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Wouldn't nerf either of them, though I would probably add some kind of blind effect whenever the killer gets pallet stunned (with or without said perks), in order to give survivors a chance of escaping by stealth.
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NOED is the kind of perk cheap people pick, because they wouldn't know how to win without it. It should never have existed in the first place. I mostly play survivor, because I like to play the game with a friend, when we are both there. Yet, believe it or not, I have never used DS, MoM (even though I bought both DLCs) or Insta-heals. Some things just show a massive lack of skill, and killers have plenty more up their sleeve. Tunneling, camping, NOED, instadowns as the only means of hitting survivors (rarely do I see Myers, Billy or LF try to hit WITHOUT instadowns). Insta-heals should only affect downed survivors, IMO. Which means, you want to be the altruistic guy, you bring those and try to save someone downed (which would also reduce flashlights). Otherwise, wasted add-on slot. But that is not the only thing that needs to go, NOED being just one of the others.
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You know, I actually agree to this, but it should be put into better terms.
You are acting like one of those cheap killer mains who only ever have to blame it on survivors. You die, survivor's fault. You get chased from the beginning of the game till the end, survivor's fault. You get found, even with all the aura reading perks playing the game instead of the killer, survivor's fault. Yeah, I see you wrote you play both sides, but this seems to be the way you put it.
People need to realise that being "an asymmetrical game" does only mean that one side is made up by 4 players while the other one by only 1. And that's it. Killers shouldn't be faster, survivors shouldn't be negated the chance to hide, if they want to play it that way, instead of constantly looping.
Back to the "you failed" argument, NOED is the most prominent example you could have here. Killers are effectively rewarded for NOT being able to do what they should have done, for the whole duration of the match. Since no one is entitled to anything, killers shouldn't have the ability to instadown survivors in the end, because they could not win otherwise. More than anything, killers who ALREADY have instadowns at their disposal (and who rarely ever down people by any other means) e.g. Billy, LF, GF, Myers, should NOT even get the chance to find NOED in their bloodweb.
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I have just one thing I would like to be changed:
Increase minimum distance between Exit Gates to Spawn from each other. That's it.
About what concerns exit gates, they should be on opposite sides of the map. Either killers go check on a door and leave the other one unguarded or they camp a door (which isn't unusual for killer players). Something to help them on this and make even survivors happy with the change, without letting survivors ALWAYS get a door open would be to rework NOED to make it only give you increased movement speed. NO instadown, at all. Decisive was nerfed, Mettle of Man was nerfed, and those were rightful changes. Time for cheap perks on killer side to be nerfed too.
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I think this would be a good idea, since players who are skilled enough do not need camping at all. Unless you hooked someone right near an open door, ofc. But then again, I fear this would not solve the issue. I have had a match just yesterday, in which a cheap russian Billy was just camping hooked people. He placed himself in a bee line from the hooked guy, far enough not to lose any points and with his chainsaw activated. Any survivor who would come, he would sprint right at them. I can try to understand people saying that there needs to be an incentive for not camping rather than punishing it. As far as sharing their opinion, though, I think it should, by all means, be punished. One common thing to any non-toxic CoD player is the fact that there are always people camping, always. Devs of that very same franchise keep coming up with quotes like: "We have improved the verticality of our maps in order to reduce camping". Even though they rarely come to do anything good about it, they understand it is a problem. Some people call that a strategy, but it really isn't. A strategy requires thinking, which is something that camping or chasing the same guy until you finally hook him do not need at all. On the other hand, if you leave the hook and the guy gets saved, you know that:
- A: At least two people, if not more, are not working on gens.
- B: At least two people, if not more, will be in proximity of said hook, making it easier for you to spot them.
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@TeambossFloze said:
In my daily SWF group of four I'm the only one that is any good at looping,
My mate is not bad
the other two - horrendous
I look forward to some actual interesting posts in this forum - kinda getting bored of ppl repeating the same old camping, looping, tunnelling, swf
I don't really see how this has got any relevance with what is being discussed here, but ok.
Still, you've got to wonder, if a thing becomes so easily the matter of discussion for so many folks, there has to be something clearly not ok with it. Seems like BHVR rarely takes notice of what is written on the forums, even when it is something that makes sense, but forums are places for people to talk, often about things that need to be improved. Besides, if you really are bored with such threads, why even click on them?
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/596702#Comment_596702
I don't think you can find any trace of me defending noed or too many tracking perks.
Bbq is essential for BP so I would play even if nerfed, with maps redisegnied and looping much out of the picture, no one would need bloodlust.
Nurse will be nerfed as well
And I never said you were defending NOED. I just said that things should be way different for both sides. Having the survivors doing something that wasn't part of the game in its early stages does not mean killers aren't doing the same.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/596123#Comment_596123
Do you realise how narrow is the field of view of a killer and how large are their hitboxes right?
With shadowborn as base and a reduced hitbox and removal of semi infinites looping wouldn't be a thing and survivors would need to escape like it was designed.
When in a 4vs1 game a 1/4 of a team can verse the single adversary team, it is clear that we have a problem
You know, if we are to talk about how things were originally deisgned, then there is much going on for killers too. First and foremost, there wouldn't be so many aura reading perks around and stuff that, in general, plays the game INSTEAD of the killer (e.g. BBQ & Chilli). BBQ finds survivors for you, NOED allows you to down survivors in one hit while moving faster, because you could not do it for the whole duration of the match. Also NOED was not designed this way, when the game first came out. It only allowed you to instadown survivors while at least one exit gate was ALREADY OPEN, and only if you had it at Tier III.
Allowing people to only ever instadown survivors while playing as Billy, Myers or LF, without ever even trying to base hit, is one of the biggest design flaws this game has. I would like to see more stealth allowed here. As much as pallet looping should not be the only way possible to survive, other options should also be a thing. A game needs to cater to every type of non-toxic player (camping players, here or on games like CoD, are toxic), to be seen as a good way to pass your time.
Then again, I wouldn't be against a way to reduce looping a little, IF something gets done to weaken killers in chases, too. You know, less looping should mean the complete removal of Bloodlust, for instance. Right now, killers can rely on that to catch survivors. Since chases go on for ages, because killers keep tunneling the same survivor until they get him, some are seen avoid destryoing pallets to get Bloodlust. In the end, they almost always get to survivors. Survivor traps could also be added, like something that you place on a door/window of your choice, which stuns the killer when he passes through it (I am talking about single use items, for example). Then, finally, if looping gets reduced, stealth should be much more of a thing. There is not even a point for the Doctor's existance right now, since stealth is so awfully done.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/596011#Comment_596011
The game is just terribly balanced overall tbh, I love the game to pieces, but it's issues run very deep
Can't argue over that. Too true to be denied. Feels like some stuff isn't even properly tested. There are totems spawning in places where survivors cannot interact with them on new Badham variants, for instance. And we still don't have dedicated servers yet. I mean, one more month and summer 2019 will be gone, and they said those servers would have been released during this summer, right? And even if it isn't a balance thing, feels like they are going on the cheap side too, when it comes to licensed stuff. We are only getting paragraphs now, either killer OR survivor and no licensed map.
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You know, I would also love for the game to have a more stealthy approach, to be given the chance to do so. As a survivor, all you do is running. Once the killer finds you, he's not gonna let hold of you until he downs you, even if he has to chase you for 5 gens (most of the time). All you can do is loop, because even when you stun the killer with just the first pallet you find, and even if said killer ISN'T using Enduring, stuns last too little to give you any chance of making the killer lose sight on you. You want to live, you loop. If we have to be fair, though, there are many things that should be removed, killer side too. Yesterday I played a match against a Hillybilly. Now, once you are facing a Billy, you already know he's only ever going to down you with his chainsaw; the vast majority of Billy players won't even try to hit you with their main weapon. Not only that though, he was also camping. After hooking a survivor, he placed himself in a bee line from the hook, far enough not to lose points for camping, with his chainsaw active. Then, when someone came in for the unhook, he sprinted from where he was and downed him. Now please, don't come and tell me this is a legit strategy or anything like that. If you want to be taken seriously, that is. Being hit through pallets or windows is another thing. The same cheap Billy guy aforementioned also hit me with the chainsaw over a damn brick wall. I'd say killer mains have much more stuff going on for them than survivors do, even though I know the pain of being looped.
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@Atrushan88 said:
Disagree. Borrowed Time being innate would just make something survivors are doing WRONG into something they're doing right. Survivors should fix themselves, not have the game fix their mistakes for them. Tunneling is only a thing because survivors without Borrowed Time unhook right in front of the killer's face whether he's camping or not. There are easy solutions to this. Don't unhook right in front of the killer's face, and bring Borrowed Time if you're going to unhook. Otherwise don't unhook and let someone else do it, or at LEAST bring We'll Make It, then wait for the killer to leave, unhook and heal to full health. You just saved your teammate without a misplay which led to neither of you getting hit afterward, Congratulations on playing correctly.
Well, I think we should say the same thing about killers, then. The times I have seen killers playing with BBQ & Chili and NOED are inumerable, and those players are effectively letting the game play for them. What you are saying is that Borrowed Time makes right something survivors are doing wrong. Yet, doesn't the need for NOED mean that the killer couldn't hook survivors BEFORE it activated, which means he played WRONGLY? I personally don't really care about BT and have rarely used it, but tunneling is another thing. Killers keep calling it a strategy, but it really isn't. A strategy is something that requires thinking, planning. A strategy would be that of making a killer chase you in an area where you know there are no available hooks, a strategy would be slugging a survivor to avoid the hatch spawn or to make him give away his fellow survivors' position. Tunneling is just chasing the same guy until you finally get him (and, thanks to Bloodlust, you WILL get him). It doesn't require planning, it doesn't require thinking. Thus, it is NOT a strategy. If anything, the right term would be cheap. The same, on the other hand, could be said about gen rushing, but that has an added variable, that of teamplay and (eventually) communication. In a premade team of even two people, one could be luring away the killer, while the other guy (who knows he is doing so) will focus on a gen or on totems. And yes, there are too many people who unhook in front of the killer just for the sake of points. I proposed a solution to this long ago, which would be that of adding the option to press a key to avoid the chance of being unhooked when you don't want to (features could be added like a differently coloured aura).
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I think there should at least be something closer to what comms can give, if not completely equal. Say they can't make it so survivors always know which pallet has been used and where, something you can say in voice chat. Fine, I am ok with that. But people (killers) are even against letting solo survivors know how many totems are still up/have been cleansed, for instance. Being an asymmetrical game, it's really hard to find something acceptable for both sides. Even when things are already available to SWF groups, so it should only be right for solo players to have said info as well, killers still oppose to these features. There is so much that could be done, I have a few ideas too.
1 - Let survivors know how many totems have been cleansed or not, in order to make NOED much less frustrating. At this point, if they don't cleanse all totems before the last generator is powered, they are willingly taking the risk. If, instead, they do look for the totem, the killer will have much more time to hunt them down. Most people won't care about totems anyway, but good players will at least look for them, and that means at least one survivor won't be working on a gen.
2 - Make tunneling less tedious. At the moment, killers abuse the speed buff they get from Bloodlust, waiting for it to proc instead of hunting survivors down like they should. Removing it would make killers too susceptible to loop, so here's my idea. Introducing a new survivor status effect, Hunted Down. It would make it so Bloodlust only activates once per survivor chased. Say you are being chased and the killer gets BL, then he hits you. Now he can't have BL again, while chasing you, until you fully heal/get healed or get hooked. But it would only work with survivors who were the subject of the chase, meaning if I get BL and hit another survivor who turned up suddenly, I can still get BL on him, even if he is hurt. And of course, being already hurt because of No Mither wouldn't work towards this status effect (with No Mither, you are already taking the risk). Now, I know what you are thinking: what if I find myself against a full SWF, they work to get hit and abuse this new mechanic? My idea would also make it so, if you hit another survivor while chasing one you already hit, you can again get BL on that survivor, even if he is still hurt.
3 - Buff weak killers and slightly nerf abused ones. We all know which killer belongs to which tier. But, personally, I am tired of only ever being insta-downed by Billy, Leatherface and Myers. With Billy and LF, I think there should be a limited use of their chainsaw, perhaps 5-8 per match (more with add-ons), with the counter reducing for each use, hit or not. Myers could perhaps lose his EW 3 whenever he downs AND hooks someone (otherwise, same time). Nurse, while she can be a pain, she needs a relatively high skill, so I don't think much should be done with her. Maybe remove the chance to have 5 blinks.
4 - Make pallets respawn, without survivors being told which pallet. Of course, pallets would have a longer timer than sabotaged hooks. For instance, every 5 minutes, a random pallet can respawn. This timer would only start after a pallet is destroyed, meaning that no pallet would be instantly restored if none was destroyed before 5 minutes.
5 - Limit survivor items to a number. You can bring in up to 3 med-kits, 2 toolboxes and 1 flashlight. This wouldn't deny said items to be found into item boxes, meaning 4 survivors could still have 4 flashlights, if 3 of the get so lucky.
If you guys have any more ideas, be my guest.
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Decisive is the only perk I have problems with, on survivor side.
Speaking about killers, on the other hand, I'd gladly let NOED go (as a solo player, most of the time, I seem to be the only one destroying totems) and would rework the game to have less aura reading perks for killers, or limit them to one at a time. So, for instance, you choose to put BBQ in. You can't use Nurse's Calling or anything of that sort. -
Oh, that's an interesting way of seeing things. What you are saying is that a PvP game isn't bound to be at least partially competitive, when all you do in a PvP game is COMPETING with other players, in order to achieve victory for yourself or your team. And that is what would make this game partially competitive, since it clearly can't be a game you'd see in e-sports. Now, if we want to keep "adding nothing to the conversation", you are welcome to keep posting your jokes, at least you would give people a laugh, even during this event.Kenshin said:@Damarus said:
Adding injury to insult, I just managed to escape with a lamp and only got the 20 points for generators, no points for the lamp... This event just keeps getting worse.Kenshin said:
so many snowflakes on this forum damn, really sad to see. after all this is still a survival game and the event was meant to be survivor vs survivor aswell. watch the dev stream. this community is just spoonfeeded from the start of the game with all the double bloodpoints bs. play hello kitty if you cant compete in a PVP game jesus christ.Even if it was meant to be survivor vs survivor, which isn't the case, as it would turn the game from an asymmetrical kind into a free for all, you seem to be talking gibberish. You can't claim for a game to be "competitive" when, in 2019, it still relies on peer to peer. It would be fun and catastrophic to watch pro leagues playing with peer to peer.
next time pls read before you are posting. i never said this game is competitive. no idea where you got that from. i said this is a PVP game and if you think every PVP=competitive than i dont know what to tell you. but thanks for adding nothing to this conversation.
CronaWins said:@Damarus said:
While the idea of an event in itself is nice, the way it was designed is astonishgly lackingThey received a lot of backlash from their last event, adding another objective was not they way to go, so they tied it in with the main objective, like it was suggested. That is why it is as simple as it is.
And yet, it was far better than this event is. There really is no point into having an event, just for the sake of saying you have one. Not if it is so poorly done as the ongoing one.
CronaWins said:
It's not even a grind. The event goes for 13 days. I've got 6 coins in 2 days playing normally, that is both killer and survivor. Stop pretending it's a grind when you can obtain all skins playing normal.
That's not correct. By saying you got 6 coins in two days, you already admitted you were grinding. 6 coins equal 2100 points which, in a perfect world, would mean 46 survivor escapes with a lamp and all 5 gens done, or 80 killer matches, as the average points you could get as killer are about 26 per match, or less. It's not me saying it, it's maths.
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Adding injury to insult, I just managed to escape with a lamp and only got the 20 points for generators, no points for the lamp... This event just keeps getting worse.
Kenshin said:
Even if it was meant to be survivor vs survivor, which isn't the case, as it would turn the game from an asymmetrical kind into a free for all, you seem to be talking gibberish. You can't claim for a game to be "competitive" when, in 2019, it still relies on peer to peer. It would be fun and catastrophic to watch pro leagues playing with peer to peer.so many snowflakes on this forum damn, really sad to see. after all this is still a survival game and the event was meant to be survivor vs survivor aswell. watch the dev stream. this community is just spoonfeeded from the start of the game with all the double bloodpoints bs. play hello kitty if you cant compete in a PVP game jesus christ.
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The thing is, as flawed as it also was, the Hallowed Blight event was far better than this. Personally, I liked the idea of harvesting those thimgs BEFORE generators. And since harvesting nectar didn't imply working on gens, killers were much less sweaty. It was flawed, since killers kept getting loads of BPs even after they were done with the event task and by playing an offering that wasn't event related, while survivors only got derisory points (IF they had played the event offering and were not done with vials yet). Not to mention the impossibility to sabotage hooks during that event. Anyway, survivors are intended to work as a team, as others will be doing different gens across the map, while you work on yours. Saving your teammates while you can is mandatory to have a CHANCE of escaping, especially during this event. Oh, and another thing that doesn't make sense is that having a lantern makes you emit light, like you are screaming "I am here, come get me" to the killer. Had a match where I got a 4k because of that bs.TrAiNwReCk said:@Axelson said:
Right now i feel bad for not getting Deliverence when it was in shrine, in this event is a vital perk if you are a solo survivor. After doing 2,5 generators by myself and rescued all the 3 survivors from the hook at least once when the killer got me down nobody comed to even try to save (even if the killer was in the other part of the map, lmao). I don't know why they made a event like this, the only thing survivors care about is escaping with theire lantern and genrush. I always go to save people, but they never come back. I think i'll start playing Adam 'till the event is done, even if i have him at level 1.About killers
99% noed with bitter murmur
99% bbqBut i also meet nice killers that saw that i was the only survivor that saved people and when they got me down, they just let me escape. Looks like some killers feels solo survivors pain.
From this event i learn that if you are a solo survivor your team mates are the killer, not the killer himself. The killers are a lot nicer than 90% of the survivors
This event is made for survivors to compete. Making solo the way to go. The survivors who are playing the event will play much less altruistic, play smart, and wait for their opportunity to escape. It's not very much fun to play that way, but if you are playing to max event points 9/10 it's the only way you are going to rack them up.
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I too am always playing solo, since the only friend I play DbD with is ill. As a killer, there are no problems for me, I can 3-4k without needing any BBQ, Nurse or NOED, even though the points rewarded are a joke. As a survivor, on the other hand, I am often left to die because of the event. There was a bug that rewarded you with 25 bonus points if another survivor managed to escape with the lantern, and they fixed it. The only thing that rewarded teamplay and made the obnoxious grinding easier, the only thing they should have left, they FIXED IT. In the end, even if they wouldn't allow such a community friendly behaviour, toxicity was way lower during the Hallowed Blight event, when killers were often letting survivor harvest nectar, while survivors would let the killer hook them in exchange for that. With all the aura reading perks/abilities they keep releasing for killers and the way they design events, I can just come to two conclusions:
- They want killers to tunnel survivors for ages, until they die. This means, they are the roots of what makes the community toxic, as nobody likes being tunneled to death;
- They are clueless about what they are doing and are running out of any ideas that make sense, throwing cosmetics and new untested and poorly designed content at us, just for the sake of making more money. -
Where does this thing you are saying come from? Lockers preventing BBQ, I mean. I can't seem to find it, in the PTB Patch Notes
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As much as someone who has been doing all the work could be the last survivor and get the hatch. I love how people try to justify this thing by only mentioning those who may or may not do nothing, without any regards about those who do most of the job. The truth is, anyone who plays killer and gets a 3k, does not have any real problems with those who have to rely on the hatch, to make their escape. When I play killer and already killed 3 people, I don't care if that last one gets the hatch, as 3 kills are already a win. Sure, I won't complain if I also get the last one, but I have no problems with him getting away. Plus, he won't necessarily get to the hatch before being found himself or simply before the killer finds the hatch. And no, the hatch does not spawn, if less than 3 gens have been completed. So nobody escapes through it if, as you say, 5 gens haven't been done.
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@Blueberry said:
Oh please do enlighten me on what qualifications you are using to deem me a "killer main". I have played BOTH sides at rank 1 for years. Here's my profile and proof with hours, let us all see yours.https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198018661768/
Unlike you I actually have experience playing both sides at rank 1 and no rank 1 is NOT the same as rank 20. Keep deluding yourself.
If you weren't dense. I never said "Oh, and killers DO see all the auras I listed so, what you are calling opinions, are FACTS" wasn't true. I said I never said they didn't Mr. Bright.
You're acting just as a killer main would, darling. I want to have the game balanced for both sides, and playing killer is easier than having bots doing it for you. I don't want survivors to escape everytime, including myself, nor do I want killers to get 3-4ks everytime. Balance is still far from this game, and many more things need to be done. I do not have a steam profile, since I play on console (as I already made clear enough). You can look at that as an excuse, I don't care. But I will just post one of your answers to another thread.
@Blueberry said:
Lol at this post. So out of touch with reality.You "think" no one cares about balance because you yourself don't understand what good balance for this game is and simply disagree with them. With your comments it's quite clear you don't have much hours or play this game at high enough ranks to really know what is or isn't balanced, much less what is actually going on.
Those seem to be your one-liners, are they not?
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@Blueberry said:
Your opinions are so out of touch with the reality of how the game actual goes that I find is highly unlikely that you actually play both sides at rank 1 or have a decent amount of hours to back up these opinions on balance. No one with these qualifications would think this way.And there we go, with the usual killer main enlightenment. You killer mains believe you are so undeniably right, it is just a waste of time trying to elaborate things that contain more than one word, with you. I'm not saying you said that, that's why there was a very noticeble "FOR INSTANCE". You should see it written now... Nobody ever played in rank 1, if they disagree with you killers LOL
We're forgetting that rank 1 only means longer queue times here, aren't we? A level 20 could be just as good as (and even better) a rank 1 is. But again, I can't blame you for smashing my head onto the wall, since I knew it would be a waste of time. I guess examples are not so easy to understand and I would like to elaborate them in a way that feels more suitable to you. But how can I, when killer mains only think this?"Me killer. Me 4k. Me best. Survivors no good. Me kill them."
The whole point here is that killer mains, aka you, want the game made easier and easier and easier than it already is. I am surprised nobody has still proposed to completely remove pallets or make survivors only walk, and only three steps per minute. I know truth burns, and that is why "my opinions are so out of touch". Oh, and killers DO see all the auras I listed so, what you are calling opinions, are FACTS.
Now, if you can provide me decent reasoning and no ahead of yourself arguments, we can start talknig about the right things, but you providing reasoning is "highly unlikely". And before you say it, I'm not saying survivors should see auras either. But not even admitting killers have it the easy way... -
@SenzuDuck said:
Can we stop pretending ANY change to this game will "prevent people tunnelling and camping". You guys need to stop trying to pile buffs in where you can as a "benefit" for survivors.As someone rightly said, there's someone literally camping if they get replies to threads (lets not pretend tht isn't how he's playing anyway). Since this "emblem penalty" killers suffer for being too close to the hook I've NEVER been camped so hard in my life in matches.
This ^. Killers won't stop camping, unless they are harshly penalized.
As someone already said, being injured, leaving trails of blood, moaning in pain and having to heal are already penalties. Moreover, there is Thanatophobia, which already does what you are proposing. -
@Blueberry said:
The game is still so vastly unbalanced in favor of survivors that a scenario like that is hardly one to even consider given how wide the gap has been the last almost 3 years and still is.Unbalanced in favor of survivors, you say. I can't see how that's true, though. Sure, survivors will try to block your path to the hook. Sure, survivors will try to help their friends with flashlights. No, survivors don't get bonus movement speed because they have been in a chase longer than needed, without being able to get a hit. Pallets are a one time use thing, get them down and they are gone, creating a dead zone in that area (or everywhere on the map, from the very start, if you are playing on Family Residence). After that, you may run a little, but the killer will get you eventually, and it probably will be just because of Bloodlust, not because he was able to anticipate your movements. You can't really say a flashlight save is unbalanced, for instance, if you heard survivors running when you were picking someone up, but you still decided to do so. Hit them and they're gone. On the other hand, while killers can see the auras of hooks, gens, exit gates and hex totems, survivors have none of that, if not by wasting perk slots. The way I see it, this game was designed to let killers have dinner ready, without them even cooking it on their own.
If you had two players, playing killer role, would the two of you not try to coordinate into patrolling different areas of the map, or would you both follow the same route? Survivors will try to help each other as they can, same as a double killer squad would. Now, by playing both sides almost equally, I know how frustrating gen rushing is. But it depends on you, because of where you decide to check first. I've had many teams of 3-4 people, each with DS and Brand New Parts, yet they only managed to complete a single gen. It's also a thing about luck, by how fast you can find them as killer, or unluck, if you get found first as a survivor (and tunneled to death). A lot of maps are also very straightforward, mostly consisting of long corridors, which favor KILLER movement (look at Azarov's Resting Place, a long vertical corridor). As a killer, the hardest part is having the match being hard.
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@alivebydeadight said:
you forgot the perk discouraged tunneling, it gave you a tier on the perk that only worked for the first hook, so it gave you the urge to hook all survivors before targeting one of themOh no, I didn't. People will still use it to camp and only go, if they ever move, to survivors who are close enough to the hook, to come back every minute or less and make sure the guy remains hooked. One thing that would at least partially solve tunneling is making the killer lose Bloodlust when he misses a hit. He would still chase you until you die, but that would at least give you more time and, perhaps, a chance to lose him. Don't get me wrong, I play both sides, and I am more than happy to die, if the killer played skillfully. But if he camps for no reason other than camping, if he tunnels the same player to death (be it me or somebody else), if he constantly goes back to totems whenever a guy is working on them (because he has Thrill of the hunt) EVEN while chasing someone, he doesn't deserve any compassion or reward. And people at Behaviour know that camping ruins the experience of players who are denied their game, or they wouldn't (too softly) try to punish it.
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@Dr_doom_j2 said:
You say you wouldn't mind an update that would force survivors to leave, yet you condemn noed. You say you don't like the idea of being rewarded for how you should play, but at the same time feel that survivors are privy to how many totems are on the map at any given time by default?And there we go again, I suppose people won't ever stop and consider that SWF groups already tell each other how many totems have been cleansed. Devs confirmed they want to buff solo survivors to the point where they have each and every single piece of information that a SWF group would share among themselves. And that includes totems as well. Totems, anyway, are secondary objectives. Secondary means it is optional, and something optional shouldn't mean a death sentence because "look how I've done nothing all game, but now I can instadown". EVEN Billys, Myers and LFs run that cheap perk now. On the other hand, being forced to leave and having to face a NOED noob is another thing. Being forced to leave means you would end up having the doors shut, after a given timer. NOED means they can just stay by the exit and go do something else when the killer goes far enough. Of course, I am not saying survivors will have to know WHERE totems are, just how many haven't been cleansed. Killers always say they find matches to be too short. And this would solve both things, survivors would either have to take the risk and power the last generator, knowing they could go against NOED, or try to look for that last totem first (effectively slowing the game down), killers would have more time to hunt down players before they can leave. Both sides would benefit, yet the one who wants to instadown disagrees. Guess what side it is. One last thing: before anyone tries to come up with the game being "survivor sided", please think. There are less hatches than pallets on maps like Family Residence, for instance.
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As much as nobody should have to tell you a match can't be thrown just because you got tunneled to death AND camped afterwards. Most killers pretend looping is bad, then proceed to tunnel the s**t out of every single player until they can be hooked. Stealth is an aspect of the game that is poorly developed, making it really useless in most scenarios. Looping is the only real way survivors can actually "survive" a cheap tunneling bloodlust killer. So yes, punishing killers for camping is a good thing, that should be more perceivable than it is now, as you won't really lose points by doing so, even after the update. And I don't see how the usual "survivors will abuse that" argument can make a point here. Do hooked survivors stop losing health while on hook, if the killer is near (and I think this should be a thing)? Do they get points for it? Not at all.
To answer your question, no, looping is not and will never be more toxic than camping is. By camping, you are preventing a player to actually enjoy the game, until he dies, while also making him lose pips. While on hook, players can do nothing. Killers can still chase, move, break pallets, hit THROUGH pallets and windows (yet no killer seems to have a problem with that). Of course, I dislike gen rush as well, while playing as a killer, but they can't just add more time to gen repairs (or they could, but then exit gates should open instantly). From what you are saying, you can't punish a side for doing something the other side finds toxic, but you are saying pallet looping is toxic? I must have lost the reasoning behind this. Again, camping and tunneling killers are preventing someone from playing, something the killer is never bound to. If you don't want a "playstyle" being punished, even cheating can be considered a playstyle (and toxic, for those who are exposed to it), so cheaters shouldn't be punished? Getting tunneled, camped or gen rushed is not stimulating gameplay. And while camping is the easiest one to address, tunneling and gen rushes are more difficult. Some people, including myself, proposed an on hud indicator that shows both killers and survivors how many totems are still up/ have been cleansed. It would make a secondary objective more prominent, especially now that lobbies are full of tryharding NOED killers. But guess what, killers don't want that. Everytime something that could make survivors focus on other things rather than just gens, killer mains disagree, unless it is something that would take more time than a gen done by yourself, even if all 4 survivors are doing that. About BBQ, it rewards you for playing the way you SHOULD. If we have to be rewarded to play how something is meant to be played and not to be punished for playing badly, then survivors might as well get a perk that gives them a 90% speed boost for every objective interaction, because that is what they should be doing. I wouldn't mind an update that forces survivors to leave once the gates are open, for instance, since that is what they are supposed to do. -
NOED is for people who have to rely on end game, because they couldn't kill survivors before they got there. In other words, it's a perk noobs use. Besides, there is no reason to use NOED if you're bringing an Ebony Mori. Spirit Fury would be way better. The rest of the build is pretty fine, I myself use Sloppy Butcher. I would swap Iron Grasp for Ruin or Enduring, the latter especially if you plan on adding Spirit Fury.