Damarus
Damarus
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@dadadadadada said:
Survivor should really be careful with the nerf they ask because if spirit get nerf they can say hi to the lobby simulator.
Killer will have enough of the repeat nerf and stop playing or the one who stay will main nurse until she get nerf again.
And people should really stop pretending that killers are the only ones ever getting nerfed. DS was nerfed so hard that it has now becomes near useless, for instance. And since it was the only real tool survivors had to not even STOP the endless tunneling, but at least punish the killer for it, it's a tunnel fiesta now.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2124434#Comment_2124434
The point is. That WILL beat a freddy. Gens will be done and people will be out. Once you play nurse, blight, spirit. The short comings of freddy are painfully obvious. And you realize that no. He can't keep up vs actual GOOD survivors. But he's fine as a pub stomper. Yes
Again, no. Unless he is running snares, the fake pallet spam he can do now will be enough to catch any survivor. But I guess this won't be enough to change your mind, so whatever. Plus, usually Freddys will be running Ruin and Tinkerer or BBQ, which means he as more than enough map pressure with his teleport.
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@piggygooik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2122897#Comment_2122897
Your point doesn't really stand since docs' fake pallets are basically the same and they didn't get nerfed.
they just make Freddy into a territorial killer ya the pallets are bad but they aren't that strong the snares were 10x better
Because those are different. Not only will they sometimes be used pallets, which we all know a killer is going to destroy ASAP, but because you will not need to stop and interact with them, leading to a hit that COULD have been avoided. And because those fake pallets will only be an annoyance if you are in Madness 3, which you can remove WITHOUT needing to traverse the whole map. Oh, and you also don't go to Madness 3 unless the killer uses his power onto you ACTIVELY, as opposed to getting asleep passively against Freddy. As you can see, no, those are two quite different things.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2123401#Comment_2123401
Let's be honest here. We ALL know freddy can't keep up with actual GOOD survivors. He's a pub stomper and that's about it. I main him and love him too. But after playing nurse enough to be able to consistently end chases quickly. After playing blight and being able to sometimes down survivors 5 seconds after the first hit before they can get to a tile. Freddys short comings are GLARINGLY obvious when all you really have to do to beat him is hold W. And throw pallets and hold W some more..Something good nurses, spirits, blights won't afford you.
And this is coming from someone who 4ks most of their matchs with freddy as well. But I don't pretend he's an S-Tier or even an A-Tier when it comes to facing GOOD survivors and not pubs
The thing is that holding W can only do so much. You are never really going to beat someone who is going to tunnel you to death, because they will get faster and faster and you will end up in dead corners or placs where pallets have already been wasted/are unsafe as a spot where there are no pallets. This "hold W" argument could only apply if Bloodlust was not a thing anymore. And no, Freddy CAN keep up with good survivors. It all comes down to what your definition of "good survivors" is. If it is that of a full premade SWF group, then every killer will eventually struggle because of how coordinated they can be.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2124128#Comment_2124128
Spirit was already nerfed, yes. But the new nerf requests fittingly appar after another nerf was confirmed.
Once Spirit gets nerfed, survivors will move one to the next killer.
Noticed how Billy, the most balanced killer we had before they made some "minor adjustments", isn't listed as viable killer on red ranks anymore?
Hmmm... Balanced. So to have players travelling across the whole map, with infinite instadowns that are the only way a Billy player is ever going to hit you, without slowdowns while revving the chainsaw, with hitboxes that got you THROUGH walls... Is that your idea of balanced? As much as it wasn't OP, it wasn't balanced either. Everything that can be spammed isn't balanced. If you want to talk about the most balanced killer, you should pick Ghostface. As much as he isn't top tier he is, in fact, balanced.
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@Dragonshensi said:
Nurse and Spirit are the only ones who can counter and have a chance at high ranks. You want to nerf Spirit? Ok. Well prepare to only face Nurse forever. Instead of asking for nerfs, you need to ask for more buffs for killers. Except those two killers, it’s almost impossible to have a decent match in high ranks.
Nah, not really. He should be asking for nerfs to overpowered stuff. The reason being that, even IF other killers were buffed, 99% of the time people would still throw themselves onto the easier stuff, because sadly that is human nature. Not for everybody, luckily, but still.. And that is the reason why there are FAR more Spirit players than Nurse players. Because, even though Nurse can be godly, she requires actual SKILL and thinking to use. Spirit does NOT. Which is also why, even if a Nurse demolishes you, it doesn't feel unfair, because you have true proper ways to counter her or waste a lot of her time AND she won't be so reliant on the cheap killer's trump cards, Bloodlust and tunneling.
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@TTV_WAWAbyWibWib said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2121607#Comment_2121607
I'll say it again the only toxic gameplay is sandbagging or your team or cheating.
If bubba isn't being pressured such that he can't afford to face camp you then you shouldn't have let him outplay you that you wound up on that hook to begin with. He's doing his job. Try to beat him or take the L and say "Good Game Sir." with respect. End of story.
What I like about these forums is that people who advocate for killers normally act like Bloodlust and endless tunneling are not a thing. If a killer catches you, because he sure will, it's ALWAYS because you got outplayed. I'd like to see survivors getting Sprint Burst active all the time, becoming increasingly fast for each 10 seconds of chase.
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Sure, I'd see that as a possible rework. IF Bloodlust gets completely removed.
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@Hektic3000 said:
So its as simple as "just do bones". Yet when that is said people say that it isn't easy and what not when maps, small game, detectives hunch all exist. Truth is if you can't do well against a killer with only 3 perks until the endgame then the problem isn't noed or the killer.
I think you are missing something here, dude. And that is that the killers who KNOW they are just not good enough will have to rely on NOED doing the dirty work for them. If you are confident in what you can do, if you can plan what you have to do, you don't need NoeD. Ever. So yes, I am afraid that the killer IS the problem because, as always, NoeD rewards failure. Or would you like a perk that makes it so a single survivor has to be hit 5 times, with no instadowns allowed, should he fail to complete a gen?
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Honestly, as much as I never really used DS much, especially in the past (nowadays, with all the people tunneling you and chasing you for longer than electricity bills, it became a necessity), I am partly ok with how it was nerfed. I say partly because it sure needed some work but, as always, BHVR went from one extreme to the other. I think they should have made it so it deactivates following actions that are not chase related, but only if you haven't been in chase for at least 5 seconds, and not instantly, or not while in the killer's TR. Sometimes the killer cannot find you, and you start healing. Then he sees you, tunnels you again, and you no longer have DS. That, coupled with no timer drop while in chase, would have been my go to.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2000283#Comment_2000283
This is the only part I really disagree with
"What I would nerf, is the ability for killers to spam, whoever the killer is"
That's because I think it already exists. Clown can't just spam bottles forever, he has a few, then he has to mix more, which slows him down. If you are up against a clown just tossing bottles, it's easy to escape during that time. Huntress similarly has a set number of hatchets, even with addons I do not believe she can even get to double digits on her, and she doesn't get to make new ones out of nowhere, she has to then find a locker and reload. Doctor is slowed while charging up either of his shocks, so spamming those will lose you the chase. Basically the only power I can think of that can be spammed is Freddy's snare, and that is its own issue.
Reload isn't being taken into account, here. What I mean by spam is to constantly throw stuff, without real, perceivable drawbacks. If you can spam bottle after bottle, hatchet after hatchet... It means something isn't right. Same goes for chainsaw after every corner.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2000283#Comment_2000283
I like the idea of 2-3 man swf. It would mean there's always the weak link to exploit in a game. That's sad for the solo queue player but it makes it slightly more fair for the killer when against these teams.
I agree that bloodlust should deactivate on a missed swing, but it should also stack quicker it that's the case. Again, the only reason it should be used is to stop tile linking infinitely, which can happen on maps like autohaven and cornfields.
I like the ideas around tunneling- although I would make the chase timer something like 40-60s so that you actually have to work for it. Stun duration can remain the same if this happens with that token system, as I think it's a good idea.
About the hook timer freeze, it's a good idea. Although I'd prefer it if it unfroze I'd survivors were near rather than killer in a chase. If I see 0 people with BBQ im staying near and looking at nearby gens.
Scott jund talked about a gen change, where a part/gas can would appear far away from a gen (like Freddy clock) and it would be highlighted when you touch a gen. The part/gas can would reduce the time on a gen to 30s, but without it, it takes 2 mins. If the person who picks up the part/ gas can gets downed then it becomes visible to all (Including killer) and the gen it is for becomes highlighted in a specific colour.
Overall this is a pretty good basis to go off.
Yeah, I heard something about gen parts before, but didn't get too much into it, gotta be honest. Anyway, the "while in chase" part of hook timer is to prevent camping, either soft or hard camping. If the killer sees the timer frozen, he will instantly know that someone is near.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1997999#Comment_1997999
This is a well thought out post tbh.
You talk about perspectives and I agree, whatever side you look at there is things that are bad and things that need a change. And if you main one side you tend to only see that side of things. This is completely correct.
The last part about getting rid of things, I agree with everything aside from bloodlust (it's there to make linking tiles actually dealable rather than forcing the killer to give up chase when they link a safe pallet, TL Wall and shack combination (this occurs on some maps a lot) , but I agree a lot could be nerfed/ changed to make this game balanced.
I can't really argue about anything on this post, so I'm gonna throw some things your way and answer them if you can , not trying to put you on the spot.
Anything else you would change/nerf/buff that's fundamental in the game (core mechanics/ map generations ect.) ?
If everything else was balanced, what would you change to make it dealable for killers and survivors alike (gen speeds and hook timers ect..)?
How would you stop tunneling and camping, or would you just give heavy incentives to not camp/ or rewards for not doing it,?
I look forward to your reply.
Well, I mean, devs like to claim that you cannot prevent camping or tunneling, because that is a "playstyle". As much as that can be true, a videogame is meant to let you have fun. Being chased for an eternity, without having the chance to do anything else, or being camped until you die because you annoyed the killer, or even being "bullied" by a full SWF is not something that falls under that category. I proposed changes some years ago now, but everybody rejected them in some way or another.
- I would make it so SWF can only be a team of 2 people, max 3 if people really want to play like that/know they are going to die without it. I would limit toolboxes to just 2 per lobby, keys to just 1 per lobby and flashlight to 1/2, SWF or not. Of course, that would not mean that someone else might not find others in chests.
- Bloodlust had a reason to exist before recent changes, since it served to counter infinites. Now that infinites are no longer a thing, well... People just abuse that, refusing to break pallets so they can get major speed boosts, for a relatively little chase time. If it remains, make it at least like Legion's power. You miss, it resets.
- What I would nerf, is the ability for killers to spam, whoever the killer is. I find it unhealty to have a clown spamming bottles at will, Billys or Bubbas doing the same, Huntress and so on, I would personally add a short time of some seconds before they can do that again, be it they used their power or not (e.g. Huntress loads an hatchet but then puts it away, Billy revving his chainsaw then not using it).
- About tunneling, I don't really know how to prevent tunneling without hindering the killer too much. Maybe making DS basekit, but its activation would be tied to a token based system that would grant you a totem after you spent some time being chased, cumulatively. You would have more than a single DS, for a minor stun duration, but only one token at a time. Camping, instead, could be made so the hooked survivor doesn't lose health if the killer is near a certain radius and NOT in a chase (and before someone claims that survivors could abuse this, it would all come down to how much aware killers are of their surroundings).
- Gen times need to be increased, to give killers more of a chance IF these previous changes are to be implemented. But staring at a bar for a long time, even longer if the killer has Ruin/PGTW can feel boring. Perhaps they could increase points after a certain amount of gen repairs and implement other gen activation requirements.
That's all I can really say, atm. Feel free to let me know what you think.
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@rglarson13 said:
Survivors love to hate NOED, and call it a reward for losing. But in the same breath, they say that DS needs to exist to punish killers for tunneling.
That same logic applies to NOED.
It's there so the killer can punish survivors for bad behavior. If they would just spread out their attention across both generators and totems, instead of tunneling the generators out of the game, they wouldn't ever encounter NOED as a problem.
But it's the killer's job to pressure survivors to make them leave generators, you say. Well, it's the survivor's job to avoid getting hooked. A good way to do that is to be someplace other than at the generator when the killer comes by to check; what better place than cleansing a totem?
But tunneling is no fun for the survivor who is killed, you say. Well, having gens tunneled out of the game denies the killer the 12-hook game everyone seems to think is the proper way for a killer to play; that's no fun for the killer.
But NOED just rewards killers for bad play, because it only procs when they're losing, you say. Except if a survivor played better they wouldn't ever have a chance to use DS -- it's a reward for losing.
But generators are a survivors's objective, you say. Well, hooks are the killer's objective.
But you can't be sure that all the other survivors cleansed totems, and it wastes too much time walking around looking for totems, you say. Well, it wastes a lot of time walking around to multiple generators to check if a survivor is there, and a killer doesn't have teammates to rely on to do their job for them.
Really it just boils down to the fact that survivors hate NOED because they were close to success, but then this irritating perk procs and undoes the results of your hard work, leaving you feeling like you just had the carpet yanked out from under you. Which is exactly what DS does to killers.
It all comes down to your perspective and how you look at it. Killers may actually like to think of NoeD as a punishment for gen rushing. Killers may like to say that DS would not be a thing if you didn't play poorly as a survivor. But the general and actual truth is that you have no way of really losing a killer in this game. If he wants to tunnel you until you become the eldest member of your family, he will, DS or not. If he isn't able to apply enough pressure, either because he doesn't really know how to play or he is facing a SWF, he will resort to NoeD as the only mean for him to score a kill. I try to look at things from a neutral perspective, since I'd like to have the game balanced for both sides. But the true "Blight" of this game are its players and their faulty, over-egotistical mentality. If people started playing normally, if BHVR started balancing the game properly, we would have no tunneling, no Bloodlust, no DS, no 4-man SWFs, no NoeD, no broken killers that require no skill (Spirit, Freddy) and gens could perhaps require longer or different mechanics. But it looks to be too much of a job for devs to actually improve their game substantially and for people to pick something other than the easiest way around. When was the last time you saw a LF or Billy even TRYING to hit someone without going for the instadown? The truth is this game will harldy ever improve, mostly because of its extremely toxic community. And also because of its devs, who hide behind excuses.
Now, this is a thread about NoeD being fair, so can't say I do really expect to get an intellectually relevant reply...
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I'm ok with that, both as a survivor and as a killer. From a survivor perspective, though, even though I never even tried to force DS from lockers or that kind of stuff, I feel like there should be a hard counter to tunneling, and I hope they add that with upcoming chapters. I mean, I sure as hell don't like to be chased until I die either of old age or boredom. They have to find a way to punish those who commit to a chase for too long, and it has to be unlinked to gen progression. People always use the "but gens fly, meanwhile" argument. And sure, they do. But as a player on my own, I don't like being forced to give others the chance I will never get.
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@Docc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1919867#Comment_1919867
I hope you are enjoying the show.
Yup, didn't think I would, since I heard too much talk for it from some friends of mine, and instead... I'm about to finish season 7, in a couple weeks since I started watching it.
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Funny to see someone asking this while I am watching that series. I believe that, as much as monster hunters could potentially fit as survivors, it will hardly ever be a thing.
First and foremost, being "hunters" and not just "survivors", they know how to fight demons and stuff even without weapons, something that could not be said of Ash, for instance. Other than that, and most importantly, Supernatural has just ended. There won't be any new seasons, even though a spin-off is rumored to be a thing. That means that there would not be anything for the right holders to earn from a collaboration, since they don't need Supernatural to become more known nor to "bring it back", like it happened with the Silent Hill franchise. Also, another thing is that Sam and Dean's looks are quite iconic, after all those seasons. You can't bring them in the game and risk making them look like Quentin, which means that more money would need to be spent to get the rights on the actors' looks, too. So no, I don't see that becoming a thing.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906117#Comment_1906117
Yeah? Then you are slugging, and everyone knows slugging is toxic. People who are slugged are not being allowed to play the game.
Ah, I forgot I was on DbD forums for a moment, and felt like being rational. My mistake, you really cannot do things with logic when it comes to contradicting killers on these forums. But hey, I'll humor you. Nope, you are not preventing anyone by slugging. Not to mention, of course, that the way I described it is far different from the usual slugging, which is equivalent to leaving a survivor on the ground just because you are sweating for a 4k. And by allowing them to move freely, even being healed by others, I can't really see what your point is. Unless, of course, you were talking just for the sake of it.
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@ProfGameAndTalk said:
I'm not looking to argue, I really don't see the difference and I'm open to any points you can make. Every argument I've ever seen against tunneling could be applied almost word for word to gen rushing.
- It isn't fun - (opinion) applies to both
- It isn't fair - not a good argument but can apply to both
- You get less points tunneling, you get more hits and downs going after more players - applies to both sides, survivors get more points adding in some chases and cleansing totems and what-not
Meanwhile, the arguments FOR gen rushing apply to killers as well.
- I need to get the objectives done and gen rushing helps me do that- yeah, killers need to do that, too
- Killers have gen defense perks, use them - survivors have anti-tunneling perks too
- I'm not breaking any rules, git gud killers! - yeah but players across the board get salty when told this, survivors VERY included.
So is this just an issue of everyone is gonna be unhappy about SOMETHING or is there really a counter-argument that can be made when I say that gen-rushing is the same as tunneling?
Full disclosure: I'm 130 hrs into the game and have a grand total of 3 games as survivor, the first three games I played. When I found how much faster queue times are as killer I tried killing and just fell in love. I've prestiged spirit once but have been leveling all my killers to get access to the perks. I don't tunnel on purpose, but if you get a survivor off hook right freaking next to me I'm gonna get the down and hook again.
Truly not looking to argue, genuinely curious about how survivors counter the points made. Thanks people, love the game!
The Professor
The thing is, that pretty much like camping, with tunneling you are not allowing someone to play the game. While you aren't letting them do ANYTHING at all, while camping, with tunneling you just allow them to get some chase points and then get them, eventually, because killers are favored by Bloodlust. Which means that, sooner or later, no matter how good of a looper that player might be, you'll get to him. With "gen rushing", it all comes down to how the killer decides to move. If you keep chasing the same guy forever, and two or three gens pop meanwhile, you can't really blame survivors. If they all bring BNPs (which aren't really so much of a thing anymore), now that's another story.
So, to make a resume: while disliking being tunneled is linked to the killer not letting you be until he gets to you, gen rushing depends on the killer not putting too much pressure where he should. Sometimes you should be dropping chases to apply pressure. Even when you down someone you still haven't hooked, hooking them instantly is not always the best choice. Can't tell you how many times I downed someone close to a gen and scared off the survivors on that gen first, or started chasing to down them and have the first survivor being revived. Which meant that 3 people were not doing gens.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1902854#Comment_1902854
Ok you may be right about me saying git gud lol. I only did it for humor.
Since when do people always play against Spirit every match. I play at red ranks but I get a Spirit in like one out of 20 to 30 matches. How are these people getting Spirit more often?
Perhaps it isn't like that anymore, but it used to be so until very recent times. I run into Spirits way more than I would like, too, though I don't ever even consider DCing. But that's how things are. The killers people always play, because they are easy and powerful, some easier/more powerful than others, are Spirit, Freddy, Slinger, PH and we used to have instasaw Billy too (but thankfully he is no more). Overall though, the vast majority are going to be Spirit and Freddy. As much as you will see a lot of DS + UB/DH on survivor side. Though, at least, SOME survivors use DS because they are tired of the constant tunneling.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1902331#Comment_1902331
Well considering how many survivors DC/suicide on hook the moment they see it’s a Spirit, I’d say she’s pretty easy because of that. Git gud.
It's 2021 and there still are kids who say git gud? Like really, extinction only happened for dinosaurs? I guess you never considered that people who DC/suicide do that because they are tired to get the Spirit EVERY SINGLE MATCH. Cause guess what? People are always gonna throw themselves at what is most op/easier to use/both. Now, if you could stop behaving like a 3 year old..
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@Kebek said:
I personally don't play spirit almost at all and when I do, it depends on the survivors how well I do. Generally, I miss a lot of phase walks and get juked by good survivors pretty often so I wanted to know how do the poeople who keep saying how them playing spirit, is ez win every match, do with her.
Do you actually almost never miss a phase walk or never get juked. Every chase ends seconds after you land the first hit. Always on point each time as phase walking is supposed to be extremely easy to land.
I can understand some of it while using stridor on an injured survivor but a lot of the time, survivor just heal and then you have to correctly predict them without sounds which I find pretty challenging vs good opponent who excels at mindgames, at least from my POV without experience.
She is really, really, really easy to play. You just need all of the things you would need to perform ok with all of the other killers: headphones, map awareness and the ability to understand who and when to chase. Other than that, aside from being a guessing game that works much more in her favor than it could ever do for survivors, she is extremely easy. Of course, if you lack into those areas, you are going to struggle, but that is true for every killer. If not, well, dinner is served. Especially if you play her with Stridor.
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Honestly, we have enough of pretty much everything. There are already many instadowns in the game, both coming from perks/add-ons or built into killer powers. No more. No more killers that do not have proper counterplay or that need perks to be countered, like Spirit. And no more spam-friendly killers like Clown, Freddy, Deathslinger or instasaw Billy.
On the other hand, as far as killer like Nurse can be godly in the proper hands, which are not so many, I find her to at least be engaging to face. Avoiding a hit against a Nurse, because I know how to move, gives me some form of satisfaction.
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@Maperson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1891100#Comment_1891100
I don't care about add-ons, i care only about basekit, do whatever you want with them.
What were you thinking about Trapper, anyway? People have the misconception that he should be allowed to spawn with ALL traps, which could be a bit too much. Having to pick up traps and place them is a big part of what a Trapper is and should be, though I too don't feel like he should only have one.
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@Maperson said:
Myers
•Make his T1 110% (undetectable)
•Make his T3 120%
Trapper
•Give him more traps by default.
I can agree to this, but Infinite EW 3 needs to go.
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@Withered8 said:
Deathslinger- Hate everything about this mans. He's just a disgusting human being with no skill.
Freddy- Another killer who just feels cheap when you loose two considering they take little skill.
Spirit- Feels like you're hopelessly guessing what she did with no cues or indicators. I'd be fine to she had indicators as to what she's doing but she tells you nothing.
Honourable mention to twins, who is the scummiest campiest sluggiest killer released, idk how she was able to be released in her state 5 years into the games life.
I woulda put old PH up there but I don't think he's that bad now, you actually have to be somewhat good with him to win.
I was about to post my reply, but noticed that @Withered8 already posted my same exact thoughts. But really, anything can be tedious, as the game is right now. Going against someone constatly spamming bottles with Clown can be as much frustrating as facing a Billy or a LF who will never, ever, not even if their life depends on it, hit you without an instadown. Overall though, the three mentioned killers are the ones I would love to never face (but the sad truth is, because they are so easy, you'll see them more than anyone else).
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@WishIcouldmain said:
So my definition is within a short amount of time after you're unhooked the killer is already back on you. Here's why I ask this. Just had a game where I was Hillbilly on Rotten Fields. I had just got a hook and was getting ready to leave then immediately after the last person hooked a Nancy was already going for the unhook soon after she was unhooked down her I was DS'd I cried on the inside. So then I go chase someone else. Then Tinkerer goes off didn't have PGTW or Ruin but went there and what do you know the Nancy was there and she didn't heal. So I down her hook her. I didn't leave because I saw a Feng near by found her downed her. And Nancy dies. Then the Feng and someone else burned a shack hatch offering find hatch and escape. Then I find the last survivor kill them. Then the Nancy messages me console calls me trash and tunneler says go watch a youtuber and get good. Then this got me laughing I was like why'd didn't you run away and heal and go for the unhook. And she said she was getting tunneled and had no choice but to go for unhook. So what's your definition of tunneling.
To me, tunneling comprises two things. The first is the basic definition of tunneling the whole community knows, does and is subject to: having the killer chase someone who was just unhooked, possibly even dropping another chase for that. The second and much more prominent one is having the killer chase the same guy, forever, until he gets boosted enough by Bloodlust and/or the survivor ends up being in a no pallet zone, so the killer can finally get him not because of mindgames, predictions or skill, but because of the aforementioned things.
On the other hand, what you did to that Nancy was not tunneling. Just ignore those people, if you know for sure you didn't tunnel. And by the way, those who tunnel do that on purpose, so... You would know, too.
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@Jarol said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888446#Comment_1888446
Wraith is Predator.
Ehhhh....No. Having the ability to turn invisible doesn't make someone Predator, as much as having cheese on top doesn't make something a pizza.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1888231#Comment_1888231
But i remember. When a new killer comes out, there are nearly always 2 Topics: "Killer is op, he needs a nerf", and "killer is bad, he needs a buff". Both steam from the killer being new and people dont know how to play as or against him.
The problem is that noone ever gives a solid definition of what counterplay actually is.
Should a survivor be able to always handle the killer in a 1v1 situation, in a 4v1 game? I think not.
Yes, spirit can´t be looped, but she can be juked, i do it again and again if i play with her. yes, i often her thats just the average spirit, but you cant with a top spirit, and that might be true. But whenever it comes around balancing around top players, that is usually marked as a bad idea, so i dont understand why spirit is different.
I think a lot of complains come from the fact that a lot of survivors only like the chase aspect of the game, and thus hate killer that have an upper hand in this part of the game, and ignore that there are other parts as well.
I actually like the fact that you have to play vs different killers in a different way, that one works with looping, from the other one you have to hide. But a lot of players dont.
You already said it yourself, things that are part of threads opened before or not much later a killer's release/PTB aren't exactly something that you should be considering. Hiding is only a relative part of this game anyway, as there is really no way to hide properly. Someone that has at least some game awareness will find you, sooner or later. And the game is only meant as a 4v1 in the sense that the killer needs to kill 4 people. Other than that, he will find them, hunt them, tunnel them and kill them in a 1v1 scenario. So yes, if the survivor knows how to play, he should be able to counter the killer, even if he decides to play WITHOUT perks. Every single killer should be counterable without perks or items. You can disable the Trapper's bear traps, you can crouch and avoid the Hag's traps activating, you can look around for the Wraith before he comes onto you, you can pre-drop pallets to stop the Clown (and another thing that should not be there for killers is the ability to mindlessly spam their power), you can start moving in the opposite direction as soon as the Nurse starts powering her blink. Spirit can't be seen, can't be heard (unless you have decent headphones) and therefore, can hardly be predicted. Hell, you wouldn't even know if she was vaulting or not, back in the days. As much as you can get into a Trapper's trap over a corner, it doesn't feel unfair. Having a killer get to you based solely, or prominently around the fact that she can't be heard, is pretty much like it would be if you had a killer that already started the match in Bloodlust 3, without ever losing it. Sure, it's fine to have different playstyles and counters to different killers. But they have to be a thing, in the first place.
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@Kirkylad said:
Im a big fan of the alien films but I just can't see it fitting into the game tbh. I can understand licensed killers like Myers, Freddy, gf, even pyramid head to a point but Alien is on another level I mean one of those things could wreak havoc against trained soldiers and destroy entire space stations I just can't see it getting stunned by a dweet throwing down a pallet on its head lol but hey maybe that's just me and it could be great in the game. Just have to see what the future holds.
Well, I mean... Demogorgon slaughtered many people, scientists and cops/soldiers as well. And still, he made it into DbD. So why not? Personally though, I always preferred they Yautjas (Predator) but I don't know if one could make it into the DbD roster. I would love it, but since there is the Haunting Grounds game (made from the same people who developed F13) AND Predator has just become a Fortnite skin/npc as well...
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@ImANiceKiller said:
I just want to make it clear that I’m not insulting everyone in the community. But a massive portion of the community is so incredibly toxic for no reason. At least in games like smite they flame you when you make mistakes. A lot of people in this game just seem to be filled with hate, spite and contempt. I’m gonna quit playing as it’s not good for my soul. Good luck out there everyone.
Yeah, this community has got to be one of the most toxic and chlidish ones I've seen since the days I used to play League of Legends.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1885163#Comment_1885163
And what did everyone say about her when she was released? Do you remember?
That she was trash. Worst killer in the game. Then some people got good with her. Oh, nerf spirit.
Spirit is the easiest of the top 3 or 4 hated killers, to counter.
Stop being predictable.
Ah...Ok? As much as I can't really remember anyone, not even once, saying she was bad, she is not even close to being one of the most counterable killers. At all. If you want to have a chance of countering her, and mind you, I said a CHANCE, you need a perk (Iron Will). You don't really counter Spirit, it is the killer that makes mistakes. Cause, you know, you can't really counter what you cannot see. Not reliably. And no killer should ever be countered by a perk alone.
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Dead Hard hasn't even been working properly long before the Twins got released. I don't know how many times me and some friends uesd it, got exhausted, only to be hit mid-dash.
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@Malum_Midnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1886997#Comment_1886997
Indeed, I agree Bloodlust is a second chance mechanic. Now that you’ve had me look at it in another light, it is weird that Killer’s have lots of aura perks, yet the survivor version, Object, is always being the topic of nerfs
Don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but yeah, I forgot about OoO since I never used it outside of Adept Laurie. That perk doesn't really make much sense, either. It acts as a direct counter to diverse killers, possibly completely erasing a Trapper or a Wraith. Anyway, if you were being sarcastic, I never implied those aura reading killer perks should be getting a nerf. I only said that killers have lots of tools at their disposal, doing a lot of the work for them. On the other side, survivors don't really have a way to have gens repair themselves.
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@Malum_Midnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1878991#Comment_1878991
No one’s whining about Kindred, which lets survivors’ see the killer’s aura. Just because you know where the survivors are, the perk doesn’t kill them for you. There’s a difference between information and second chance perks
Yes, indeed, but there is a difference between the two perks. Kindred lets other survivors see where the killer is IF he stands close to the hook (camping, mostly) and doesn't really give you any additional information about the killer that you would not be getting was he to come for you (eg TR). BBQ and Nurse's, on the other hand, let you see the auras of survivors that you still didn't find on your own, and that you could possibly not even be hearing (because of distance or Iron Will). I mean, there is a reason why one of the scoring points for a killer is "Survivor found" and not "You could already see the survivor, now start chasing him". As much as the Hunter emblem isn't called "Dora's adventure". As a killer, you are firstly tasked with FINDING a survivor. And again, killers have Bloodlust, which isn't really far from DS anyway. You call DS a second chance perk, I call Bloodlust a failure rewarding thing (wish I could call Bloodlust a perk, but no, killers get it for free).
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@NuKeD said:
2 matches in a row with 4 guys downed and they keep getting up as soon as i grab somebody. do you wanna know the result? 0/4 and entity displeased with "gg ez" in chat.
seriously, what's the purpose on using these crutch perks for survivors? i'm titled as hell right now. 2 sweaty survivor teams with this ugly perk and two times i get genrushed and teabagged at the exit because people can't accept their defeat so they need these "second chance" perks.
@NuKeD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1529304#Comment_1529304
yeah, that's what i did. i hooked the guy who has recovered the most, but they had like 3-4 unbreakables. not much i can do.
Actually, it is REALLY easy, OP. You just need to hook instead of going after every survivor you see the moment you see them, because you want to match to end asap and get a 4k no matter what. If you have just downed a guy and there is another one injured close to you, then commit to the chase. If not, leave him or hit him once and then hook the first guy. If you expect survivors not to use the "crutches" they have at their disposal, when killers run stuff like NoeD, play broken easy killers, only hit with instadowns even when they could land a normal hit or no hit at all, and tunnel you forever thanks to Bloodlust alone, you are being kinda delusional here.
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@Woot1234 said:
As a survivor we've all probably had a killer give us the hatch at least once. Hopefully as killers we've done it on occasion to a noob who was clearly in over his head or to reward a survivor who played us particularly well.
But, have you ever had a survivor give you a sacrifice? I haven't. And if this is less common than giving hatches, what does that say about survivors in general?
To be honest, yes, as much as it is a much rarer practice. While I play killer, if I feel like it I will give the last survivor the hatch, perhaps being careful not to give it to the toxic one (which means, that if there are 2 people but he was the last downed, he will still be the one on the hook). The two things differ on a variety of points, though.
As a killer, I can give the hatch if:
- The survivor wasn't toxic;
- Out of pity for a particular survivor;
- Just being friendly;
- All of the aforementioned points, plus that survivor was really good.
As a survivor, instead, I tend to let the killer sacrifice me, or at least try to (as sometimes they won't do it anyway) if:
- The killer was friendly and farmed;
- The killer was a good player and didn't camp/tunnel/chase me forever/only ever hit people with instadowns (very VERY rare instances);
- The killer still hasn't learned how to play and ended up with no kills, but he didn't tunnel/camp.
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Oh, trust me, for me it is the other way around. All the useless/unskilled players I meet appear to be playing on PC. Well, no, they don't simply appear to, they DO, as I go check their steam profiles before I assert anything about them. Might be wise for you to start doing the same, instead of overgeneralizing.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1880913#Comment_1880913
Agree I don't like it when both exits are next to each other I don't argue about that.
They said they "fixed" it but as usual they didn't.
If you let yourself push off the gen realy easy that that is on you.
If you see him coming, you run.
He doesn't chase but just kick the gen, go back and start repairing it.
Yes it is slow but the regression from the kick is barely noticeable and before he's even back you already got more repaired then what he kicked off.
Don't be afraid if you get hit.
If he doesn't commit to the chase than go back and continue while injured.
Or touch it and then heal if you are not confident.
Remember, he has to commit to a chase eventually because he's gonna lose it anyway when all 3 gens are repaired at the same time.
And i disagree with you if they got to 1 gen left, there are multiple factors in play.
They could have used toolboxes, BNP, prove thy self.
It is always possible to get back from it as killer.
I've had a match as scratch mirror myers and I brought a map offering for the game, the survivors brought the clown map and they got it.
They got to 1 gen which wasn't a 3 gen btw and I still got a 4k.
This was before nemesis btw and I don't think I was using pwyf either.
Now if you play killer than you know how terrible slow myers is at T1 and you can barely surprise them on that map.
So yeah it's not always on the killer when they get to 1 gen.
Even if you apply pressure they can easily get to 1 gen left, everyone could even be on their dead hook and still get to 1 gen
Yeah, but Scratch mirror Myers is arguably not really the best choice. It's more of a fun build, but not something that you would constantly go for, tbh. And let's be honest, nobody uses BNP anymore. Yes, you can still make it out as as a survivor, and it falls on them for getting into that situation, agreed. But again, if the game was properly developed, 3 genning would not be possible in the first place.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1880889#Comment_1880889
Which is a mistake they made and even getting rewarded for it too.
If you have a feeling you get 3 genned, than do whatever you can to stop that.
You got 4 survivors so just spread over gens on 1 side to counter the 3 gen.
Escaping when you allow to get 3 genned, isn't realy a fair mechanic
Neither is it to have exit gates spawn next to each other, possibly with a hill in the middle that the killer can sit on. Unless gates spawn on opposite sides of the map, the last survivor will have no chance of escaping, anyway (considering the hatch closed). And well, the whole 3 gen thing isn't exactly fair, either. Having a killer hit someone then go from one gen to another until the end of times gets obnoxious really fast. Sure, that depends on which gens survivor complete, but it shouldn't be possible if they game was properly done. But if you are lamenting multiple survivors escaping through the hatch when 1 gen is missing to power the gates, it means that you weren't really able to keep up with them. You can't blame them directly for that, since you didn't apply enough pressure, nor did you do it fast enough.
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@Blightgoesbrr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1880854#Comment_1880854
wow, so mad that wrote an entire essay, I could say that's nice, but it's not nice to lie.
Well, I guess it was wrong on my side to expect you to be able to provide an intelligent reply, or at least something that wasn't childish. But you proved my point, showing that you don't really have any points yourself, to begin with. I'd say you were worth my time, but as you said "it's not nice to lie". Ok then, I guess it's past your bedtime, anyway. Be seeing you, kiddo ;)
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@katoptris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1880666#Comment_1880666
Don't forget you have small game and of course a map with an add on. If you really wanted get it easier you can even run detective hunch but nah survivors want the meta.
Well, isn't "wanting the meta" the reason why so many people start threads crying about Ruin+Undying being nerfed? And that happened even BEFORE they actually had a chance to test it out in the PTB, and check how it worked with token based hexes. Can't the same be said about the fact that there are so MANY people playing Spirit and Freddy, without ever being able to play killers that actually require a hint of skill? Or wasn't that the reason why people kept playing instasaw Billy, when it still was a thing? Calling names is easy, ain't it?
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@Blightgoesbrr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1880596#Comment_1880596
And survivor mains can't process that undying&ruin combo is also taking 2 perk slots that are permanently lost once survivors figure out insanely difficult process understable exclusively for people with science degree of doing bones, so here we are.
I personally never asked for "nerf X for survivors, but don't nerf X for killers". I can cope with the other side having strong things if I have the equivalent on my side. Yet we see the tendency of taking strong things from killers....and not addressing equivalents of survivor side. And that is utter bullshit which you can't deny.
So devs should've either never touched undying in the first place, or listened not only to survivors. Dealing with DSUB is just as frustrating as undying&ruin, especially if survivors abuse it. This combo forces you into losing playstyle, as well as giving survivor a 60 seconds of complete safety, since killer can't do anything to that survivor (excluding pyramidhead of course) and in endgame scenarios this becomes the worst thing to deal with.
So let me ask you this question
what is wrong with developers who ignored voices from one part of the community that were screaming for more than two years and listened to voices whining for two months?
And please don't start with 'DSUB is fine, keys are fine', this is beyond just biased.
If you did bother reading my last lines, I specifically said that the key nerf should have been a part of the same update that nerfed Moris, and that should suffice into making you understand how unbiased I try to be, since I tend to play both sides, even though much more killer than survivor, lately. IF you did bother, which you clearly didn't. I guess being a killer main comes with shouting, caps lock and not really reading what you are not interested into because it doesn't work for you. I never even mentioned Undying and Ruin once, and I guess nobody else really did, here. But fine, if you want to go for this ride, let's go. Though, be warned, you gotta be this tall to ride.
Undying and Ruin are pretty much the same thing that so many killers whine about, DS and UB. So yeah, I can't see why you can cry for those, but survivors cannot be doing the same for Undying + Ruin Well, there are many differences. Ruin makes the kicking gens for the killer, at double the regression speed, so it doesn't only act as a slowdown perk, it also saves the killer seconds from having to kick gens. If you apply that to the many instances where you would have kicked it otherwise, it becomes retroactively "semi-op" (please, note the " " before you start doing your thing).
Then, there is another important difference. Totems are RNG, which means that they can be found instantly, or they can stay completely hidden until the end of the match (and in some maps, hell, they are even poorly placed, so they become uninteractable). Oh, and by the way, Hex totems, whichever they might be, were never meant to be able to last a whole game, anyway. DS, on the other hand, only requires the killer to have enough brain to keep track of those survivors who might have it and leave them on the ground, which not only completely erases the perk, making it a wasted perk slot because it won't even serve its purpose, but it also means that other survivors will stop working on gens to go help the one into dying state. If he has UB, he will pick himself up, while you go hunt his friends. Good, so now at least two people are not doing anything, which is what a killer wants to apply pressure. Now, I know, at this point (if you bothered reading this time) you are already eager to write "Oh, but they get into lockers so I am forced to pick them up and let them use it". Well, if that was what you were going to say, can you please spare me your reply? Because that means that you aren't able to process that you AREN'T forced to do anything, just leave them there or fake going away and hit them when they come out. I know, it's that simple.
So, while DS and UB can be bothersome during EGC, if you killers keep crying so desperately about them instead of eating them when you have the chance, or just ignoring people who have DS and are on the ground, you're calling it upon yourselves. Trust me, I always eat DS early to mid game, when I run into the same survivors who were just unhooked (because if I lose it's fine to me, still much better than being a tunneler). And guess what? I still win. And yes, in red ranks (ranks mean nothing anyway. I could be a rank 20 and still play much better than a rank 1). The only thing ranks mean is that you played a lot, or not, during that particular monthly "season". On the other hand, as a killer, the only thing you need to make use of Ruin is to scare survivors off gens, or have them do something else. You can completely deny DS without ever interacting with it. But you can't deny Ruin and Undying without actively looking for them. Yes, those are still much better than NoeD, of course. No, those perks aren't meant to hold your hand throughout the whole duration of the trial. And the aura reading part of Undying shouldn't have been a thing, to be honest.
So yes, DS and UB tend to be overly exxagerated by killers, while Ruin and Undying, while kinda overly exxagerated as well, aren't as much. And to be frank, I think DS should be made stronger against tunnelers. I don't know how, but if there was a way for the perk to detect that you are being chased forever, I would have it being usable more than once. Just for tunnelers, though. Ah, right, one last thing. Don't forget that killers have Bloodlust, something that was added as a direct counter to infinites, that have been removed a while ago. So yeah, if you FAIL to hit survivors for 15 seconds, which is nothing, you are rewared by getting faster. And if you abuse that by respecting pallets and not destroying them, as a lot of maps are really awful pallet/pallet safety wise, you'll get survivors because of Bloodlust alone, not because of skill. I would gladly concede both DS and UB, perhaps even Dead Hard, if tunneling/chases that go on for so long that you may die of old age, camping and Bloodlust were not to be a thing anymore.
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@Renfear said:
I don't get why people complain about this. It's two perk slots for things you can only use once. Yeah, it's irritating, but there's an easy workaround. Don't tunnel people. It's not hard. If one person just got unhooked, go for the other guy. Seriously, all this complaining about people punishing killers for having bad manners. If someone is able to DS you, you shouldn't have gone for them in the first place. If you down someone and they can't DS you, grab and hook em, so Unbreakable doesn't do anything.
Now, I get that there are toxic survivors out there, I play both sides, but these are reactionary perks, not like flashlights or head on. I do find it funny that when I complain about Doctor and the list of like, sixteen different abilities he has, the killer mains tell me to quit being a baby and get good. Shoe's on the other foot here.
Nah, killer mains aren't really able to process that, or at least the vast majority of the people who come onto these forums appear not to be. Why avoid the problem in the first place, when you can tunnel the same guy again (which you would probably be doing even without said perks) and then come whining over the forums? You've gotta have something to say to at least give the resemblance of a fair point, right? Some days ago someone literally posted videos of him playing Doctor, going into DS on purpose, then acting surprised and crying in here. Sure, when it happens during EGC it's another thing, but during the match it's not that big of a deal. Not in the slightest. Unless you are a weak killer, that is (and I mean player, not character).
Anyway, OP, I can't really see how the Mori nerf, which was a rightful one (though it should have been coupled with a key nerf, too) can be considered to be a shadow nerf. Shadow nerfs are nerfs that aren't announced, while the Mori change was specifically written in the patch notes.
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@Axx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1878784#Comment_1878784
Survivors and the devs have already dictated how killers should play enough. People literally save in the killers face because of DS. Survivors are allowed to play terrible and have a ton of second chance perks and other mechanics, but killer always just needs to "git gud" or adapt. The devs don't want survivors to improve at the game I guess. Because if they did they wouldn't be hand holding the survivor role so much. Literally only like 1 out of every 10 red rank solo survivor games you will have 1 decent teammate. Survivor is so easy to play that people that can't even run for 10 seconds can get there. This game is in a terrible state due to survivor and holding. People don't improve and they just keep on nerfing killer things. Sorry, I know this is off topic, and ranty, but yeah. You think DS is serving its purpose just fine. I don't even have to wonder what side you main with your point of view of DS.
That's an interesting theory. I think Bloodlust is more than enough of a hand hold on its own, already. You literally fail to hit the survivor for like 15 seconds and you become faster for it, every 15 secs. Or you abuse that by refusing to destroy pallets. And well, then we have perks like Nurse's Calling, BBQ, Ruin+Undying, Spirit's Fury, Infectious Fright. I could go on, but I figure you got the point. Those are all perks, to different degrees, that do the work the killer should be doing himself, in his stead. You don't have to kick gens, because they do so themselves, you don't have to put much effort into finding survivors, because Nurse's and BBQ find them for you. Infectious requires you to be downing them, at least, so you are doing something. Yeah, SWF is majorly busted, or solos are not really like they should be, and there is some work to be done on survivors as well, of course. But going from one side to the completely oppsite, saying that only survivors have got things that make the game much easier? That has to be a joke. And to be fair, as much as I can get frustrated because of DS myself, at times, the OP just proved, with his post and video-proof, that many killers just call it upon themselves. If you know you're not good enough to react to a 5 sec stun and can't come back from eating it and REMOVING it from the match, you slug. Or if you don't want to take the risk, anyway. If you go after the same survivor after he has just been unhooked, you can't really come here and cry "Boo-hoo, DS OP". It's like saying that you know you are allergic to almonds, but you go around eating Almond-Joys... Devs wouldn't have put names (and soon ICONS) of those survivors into the HUD, if they didn't want killers to use them as info as well. So you see that xXDark-ShAdoWzXx was just unhooked and is now injured. You run into him and down him. If you know enough about the game, you'll slug him at that point. If you don't, and get a DS for it, it was on you. And to be fair, with the amount of killers who just straight out tunnel you to death or chase you forever, sometimes I feel like DS should be made even stronger, or token and chase based (the more you get chased, the more tokens and uses you get for it). But yeah, I get the feeling of it being not so healthy for killers who don't tunnel (as few as they might be) or those who ACT like they didn't. But until Bloodlust and tunneling are a thing, DS needs to stay. As much as BT needs to stay until we don't have camping anymore.
Both sides have got their noob things and their healthy things. But a survivor can't prevent you from playing or moving, for instance, while killers can.
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As much as this appears to be an interesting discussion, there is one thing you are forgetting, and that you should always remember in these scenarios: this is a videogame. Even if he appears to be godlike, invincible and almighty powerful in the books, the most important thing about a properly enjoyable game is balancement. Even though DbD still has a long way to go for balancement, on BOTH sides needing nerfs here and buffs there, it still is a videogame. Which means that he would need to be toned down to stand in a videogame. As we all know what the outcome of a game called F13 was, where devs specifically replied to people lamenting how OP Jason was that: "He is Jason, he is meant to be OP". Pennywise is pretty much an iconic character in the horror genre, and if I remember correctly, both devs and players would like to have him starring into this game. Plus, I haven't really played all those videogames, but I guess that Pyramid Head can do much more in the Silent Hill saga than what he does in DbD, right?
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Seriously, I feel bad for you.
Because I don’t get it.
I’ve not let DS bother me for a long, long time.
I’m a Clown main, that balks at meta perks, often sticking with builds centred around stacking Coulrophobia & Mangled. Exactly the kind of killer you would expect would struggle a great deal.
But i hold my own at red ranks, usually getting 3k or 4k, with 4 man escapes being a rarity.
I’ve been around a while too. I’m not a true genuine DBD veteran that’s been around since the beginning, but I’ve been around for a significant part of the games life cycle.
Sure I post a lot of angry rants on here, but that’s me just being a pathetic drama queen at times.
I’m not trying to turn this into a peen measuring contest. I’m just providing some context before outlaying how I’ve stopped letting DS (and unbreakable) be such the over embellished problem everybody else makes it out to be.
They can only be used once.
Let me say that one more time.
They can only be used once.
These perks only have great power late game or endgame, but Killers, you fools. You ALLOW survivors to have and use these perks at those crucial times of the match where it’s most crippling and frustrating. Yes, I’m blaming YOU. It’s YOUR fault if you’re being hit by DS (or unbreakable) at endgame.
Here’s my general match approach, leaving myself wiggle room for adaptation and improvisation.
I don’t outright tunnel or outright camp, but if an unhook has occurred in my face, then I WILL smack whoever was just unhooked. If they have BT, fine, I don’t care. Now they have to run somewhere and waste a little bit of time mending. No BT? Well I’m picking them up fully expecting DS because I WANT them to use it. If I’m stunned, fine, I then let them run off and IMMEDIATELY refocus on spreading pressure elsewhere. No DS? Too bad, oops, they’re going back on the hook. That survivor is now a greatly reduced threat for the remainder of the match, so I might even give them a bit of slack later on.
If at any time I spot someone that I know was recent unhooked, again, I follow the above process. I want to test each and every survivor for DS as early as possible, and eliminate it as fast as possible. The survivors are incredibly screwed after they’ve all had their DS eliminated, not so much because the perk itself is gone, but because it GREATLY LIMITS the kind of plays the survivors can then make to assist each other.
“You can’t just eat DS. That’s not a counter!” But I do, and it works almost all the time.
“But you lose so much pressure.” Except in rare instances, I ignore who just stunned me and I immediately return to spreading pressure to the other survivors to the best of my ability. I don’t want to give them TOO MUCH free time.
”But then it was a wasted chase.” I just got rid of a (overrated) tool from the survivors kit before/around mid game. I don’t feel like I wasted my time at all.
For those that keep throwing counter arguments based on theory, I simply urge you to just try this approach.
If it doesn’t work for you after a dozen games, it doesn’t work for you, and you can’t rant “can’t can’t can’t” all you like.
Jesus Christ, so I am not the only killer player who follows that reasoning and finds no threat whatsoever in a DS and eating it. Where have you been all this time, dude?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1863734#Comment_1863734
your acting as if Undying+Ruin automatically wins games without any input from the killer. Undying+Ruin rewards the killer for ending chases quickly and applying generator pressure, the survivor buzz word. It is surprising that they change a perk that discourages the killer from camping hooks and encourages them to push people off generators. It is even anti-camp perk similar to BBQ. If ruin lasts entire game, Its because survivors did not find totem or were not purposely searching for it and have decided to ignore their secondary objective of totems. There is also a bug currently in some maps where totems positions are not cleanable.
It is not like it is impossible to complete all 5 generators with ruin up with a good team. Ruin+Undying change will not affect good killers unless facing very strong teams but those teams were hard to beat even with the perk combination. Its just negative change overall for the game as it means survivors do not really adept to killer perks while killers always adapt to survivor perks and if anything strong shows up in the future, expect it to not stay for very long.
It doesn't, of course, but hex totems were never intended to be up for the whole match, in the first place. Or, you know, they would not be hexes at all. And well, camping and Undying are two very separate matters. If someone camps, and those who do already know they are going to, they won't bring Ruin in, in the first place. Then, about adapting, all I see is killers bit**ing about DS. As much as I don't like that, too, it isn't even close to being the huge deal killers want to make of it. So, let's say this is a 50/50. Survivors may not adapt, which has nothing to do with keeping hexes up whole match, really, buy killers don't either. Or well, you know, if Ruin had to be up for 4-5 totems, potentially lasting until EGC, I don't see why DS shouldn't last for 5 minutes.
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@Ivaldi said:
So.. Killers.. can you explain something to me? Yes we all know by now, you guys want DS nerfed.. But do you guys even realize that the sole reason the perk even exists to begin with is due to the way a lot of Killers play? If you didn't resort to tunneling, survivors would have never needed it to begin with.
As a killer main, I've never once had an issue with DS. Why? Because i'd rather lose knowing I refused to tunnel someone.
And we know, we know.. You had that 1 rare occurrence where you downed 4 survivors in 60 seconds but still got hit with DS and that survivor was able to loop you for 5 gens, save all of his teammates and escape.
You're the one that makes the choice to tunnel someone and eat their DS, when instead you could just slug them and create even more pressure. If they have UB? So be it.. that was still 40 seconds that they were out of the game.
The truth is, as much as it can be a problem with organized SWF teams, killers just overexxagerate it to get what they want. I have taken multiple DSes on purpose, with the following 5 sec stun and I have still won matches by a long shot. I have slugged and those survivors used Unbreakable or were revived by other teammates, and I still won by a long shot. It's not gonna happen each and everytime of course, but I don't expect to get 4 kills every match, nor will I cry because I didn't manage to. If I don't feel like it, I'm not even gonna slug to get the 4th kill before the survivor gets the hatch. And most of the time I don't. Truth is, if you don't camp or run after the same guy as soon as he gets unhooked, DS is hardly ever going to be a problem for you. But the average killer players can't really think of that. They're pretty much like "Me want kills, me tunnel you".
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@Saltjar34 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1863746#Comment_1863746
I never said I liked Calm Spirit for what it did against crows. I know nobody runs SFTS. I said I liked it because Infectious Fright is crazy good. Also what's wrong with Pharmacy? Nobody runs Hoarder and it basically guarantees that you won't get a broken key or yellow flashlight first time. Yes, I get to control the RNG, something you usually can't risk at higher ranks and get an item that essentially lets me use quicker Self-care and heal my teammates faster as well as allowing me to take another item. It's for when I have too many brown/yellow medkits and toolboxes.
But anyways my point is still the same, the meta invalidates many perks and keeps them from being used. Also have you ever had a match where you see your teammate's aura float towards you at high speeds? That experience is mostly why I love Better Together a lot and Aftercare to an extent.
Oh no, there is nothing wrong about Pharmacy. All I am saying is that Pharmacy and other similar perks aren't really worth using, as they give you something that won't really do much for you. It's pretty much like Diversion. It sucked before, it will now suck less than before. But can you say it is going to become a valuable perk? Not in the slightest. As I said, some perks were just put there to give the 3 killer 3 survivor perk layout, without putting too much thought into it. And that's okish, not all perks can be useful the same way. But between being useful and being awful there is a big difference.