DBDVulture
DBDVulture
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@Blizwise said:
Like the idea, but his tiers are great how they are, his biggest down side is the zombies.
Either nemesis needs a solid buff, or his zombies do.
Zombies just need to be smarter with pathing and a bit faster attack that’s not almost 100% dodged unless caught somewhere tight.
If they leave zombies then give nemesis a solid little buff. Like actually making his t-virus useful lol
The zombies need a functionality change for large maps as They have almost no effect on large maps.
Fundamentally zombies need to never get stuck or respawn instantly when they do get stuck as it completely ruins his power that you can force zombies to afk on a gen and effectively be "turned off" via terrain glitching.
As a base effect Nemesis should get a +1.0 movement speed buff when destroying a zombie (effect lasts 10 seconds). He could have an addon that doubles the duration and another that increases the speed to +1.5 for the duration.
@Brimp said:
He would be fine if he had 6m base and had t3 changed to something else entirely because changing range mid game from almost unusable to useable is very fun.
Changing his whip to always have one length would be a very good move for quality of life. Just a small note : one of the reasons T3 is better than T1 is because you get less movespeed penalty with full t3 unlocked.
Overall Nemesis should be rewarded way more than he is for having a build up mechanic. Either the build up mechanic needs to be removed and he can always breaks pallets on whip and always has the same movement speed while trying to whip or he needs to get crazy buffs on T3 infection. A simple example would be : T3 infects and damages when you whip a survivor.
Overall I suggest completely removing the buildup mechanic so he is uniform speed and his ability always works. This would leave room to add more value to his addons
@TheMruczek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356196/a-nemisis-rework-idea
Rework his add-ons, decrease the speedboost after infecting survivors by like 30% and add some sort of system that kills zombies whenever they are stuck.
Maybe give 10% cooldown reduction when you hit a survivor with your tentacle in tier 3.
Still there are killer that are more important then Nemmy to get some reworks-Freddy, Sadako, Myers just to name a few.
The devs nerfed the few addon combinations that did anything and pretty much everything left is junk nobody uses aside for zombie movement speed.
Nemesis should have one addon for -2 vaccines as well as the current addon for -1 vaccine. This would make it so one person can be cured for the entire game. That would be a huge game changer.
The licker tongue addon should be something like -4% movement speed (forever) if you are infected.
He should have an addon that makes it so whips that infect a survivor do not give a speed boost.
The pink addon that increases zombie speed should be more like : every completed generator increases zombie speed and detection radius by 50% (stacking).
Nemesis should have an addon that makes it so you do not hear his terror radius if you are infected (ends when cured).
If we really wanted we could make the other pink addon change his power so that t3 infections re damage+infection (removing the addon where you are exposed when using a vaccine).
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The guard rotating system is arbitrary and stupid.
If you summon the spirit to kick a gen or pallet you should get the brute.
If you summon a spirit to chase a survivor you should get the assassin.
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@barsw said:
For special program lovers he should have DPI lock to avoid people using increasing it .Speed from 4.6 to 4.4 he doesnt need 4.6 he is a mobile killer .In the past devs you were focused in both sides nerfs now the only one thing that you do is nerfing survivors poor killers but nerfs for mobile killers as nurse they must be .A lot of people that i know agree with that.
Because during last 2 years devs only post battles passes and skins about balance they forgot about this word .Would be nice to see you playing against this killers .And dont tell me about experience and etc .I have 5k+ hrs and i know everything about this game .
Blight will eventualy lose hug tech. That will be a good nerf because it will make his power balanced again. After that he just needs to have his addons adjusted. Funny enough both Nurse and Blight have some of the strongest addons in the game. Nurse has some addons that enhance powers by 30%. Meanwhile you often find 2-6% power enhancements on other killers.
@Header said:
basekit blight is fine
Blight gets his charges back way too quickly. His power is obviously better than say GF's power so it should take longer to recharge. Some of the better Blight addons should probably reduce charges so that they become a double edged sword.
Adrenaline vial for example should almost certainly be -2 charges instead of +2 charges.
Alchemist's ring should probably also be changed to be at least -1 charge if not -2 charges.
Nerfing these two addons and making his base kit recharge be at least +10 seconds would be a good start for nerfing him.
Note : I firmly believe Blight and Nurse should be nerfed into "A tier" levels or at least "S-" levels so we can have game balance. With that in mind survivors also need to be nerfed (mostly talking about SWF : just make it so you can't repeat any characters, items perks or offerings in a SWF).
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@NekoTorvic said:
No. DS is fine. In fact, it's the fairest it's ever been, even if it's still BS when a survivor that knows what they're doing abuses the fact they're essentially invincible to waste your time.
If you use your base kit BT to run to an advantageous position, and then stun the killer with DS you can waste a ridiculous amount of time from the killer and win matches just because of that one play.
It doesn't protect you for free without even needing to think about it, which is good. The stun works if you make it work. It doesn't work if you just expect it to save your life without having to think about it at all because you hit a skill check, which is how it should be. The mentality of wanting the game to safeguard you without you having to put in any effort whatsoever, is baffling to me.
But, please, keep on thinking DS is bad. Keep on not using it to waste the killer's time. It will really help killers if you just keep on believing DS does nothing and don't run it.
People who know what they're doing already use OtR and DS offensively because they KNOW it means they're basically immune to being killed.
Nice to see someone who actually gets the big picture.
DS is finally in a good place after 6 years of being mostly overpowered. Now we just need to get DH adjusted over the next 4 years with a few minor slaps occurring every two years or so.....
@NekoTorvic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274266#Comment_3274266
Because it's yet another second chance that stacks with OtR and DH and all the others. It makes it so if you have to tunnel a survivor at some point in the match, they waste so much of your time. So long as you make good use of your DS you will stall the killer so much.
Lets not forget you can combine OtR, DS and then you'll have DH after your DS cuz it resets endurance.
DS is ok. If anything OtR is absurd.
Funny enough DH and OTR are the reason I usually just immediately attack the player getting unhooked. The perks designed to prevent tunneling just make me need to tunnel even harder.
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@RainehDaze said:
You play one, you instantly lose at the start of the game. Doesn't matter what side, they're a stupid concept and completely antithetical to having fun.
Or maybe do the simple thing already and change how they work so people can maybe STOP being sent to The Game. Every. Damn. Time. What's that, you want moris or BP offerings or literally anything else? To the Game it is! Again!
A number of streamers just quit before the game loads when the opposing side picks a map they dont want to play. That's pretty telling for a number of reasons. Most importantly it means there needs to be some map cleanup so the unfair maps are better balanced
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274605#Comment_3274605
Blight hug "tech" has been considered a bug around... lord knows how long and he is still there hugging and sliding the walls, but clearly the killswitch is only used to benefit Survivors, now... where did I put my tinfoil hat?.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274611#Comment_3274611
For a bug to be acknowledge in a the official release patch notes it has to be known before they release, its something they know its not working but decide to go through anyway. They havent acknowledge on the patch notes as "known bugs" the Knight being able to be 15 ms after being stunned or gaining MYC procs and Devour Hope tokens whils standing 1 meter from the hook either.
They were unaware of all those issues before launching the patch.
Blight hug tech is in line to get removed. Most people want it gone from the game as it dramatically changes how effective blight can be in a chase. Blight felt pretty easy to deal with when he came out because nobody knew that hug tech or j flicks were a thing.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274528#Comment_3274528
Yes that wouldn’t be kill switch worthy. Annoying for sure but nothing gamebreaking
There is no way "The Game" could be a fair map to any survivors if there were only 10 pallets. Some areas of the new map are spawning three pallets closer together than 10m. That type of double pallet spawn was removed from most maps years ago.
Long story short things that benefit killers get kill switched/patched within hours. Things that benefit survivors usually stick around for weeks, months and in some cases years.
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@BringShaggytoDBD said:
So when will we be getting Topless Kate?
I was actually pretty disgusted during the last yearly event when one of the quotes was talking about a shirtless skin.
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@Phasmamain said:
Because the bug isn’t game breaking like other map issues such as spots where you can’t be hooked
The map is functional just spawning too much pallets
Imagine if the game map only spawned 10 pallets instead of 25. That would be fine by your estimation apparently.
I guess most people haven't really come to the understanding that DBD can only be a fair game if the killer is Blight/Nurse on most maps.
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@Obelt said:
https://twitter.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1595415182976630784?t=1FOtjYGTpbAQHnLRaUuBXA&s=19
Dead hard being the most used perk still after a rework and a nerf is mindboggling cause survivors see it as a high skill perk now if you can force deadhard consistently getting insane value distance then old dead hard ever could.
Devs are going to have to purposely make this perk bad so nobody uses it and here's how.
1.After use gives the survivor 8% hindered
2.Distance when hit gained -75%
The problem with Deadhard is that it made chases longer before the patch and still works great to do the same thing after. Pop was the counter to this perk in many ways because it made gens take dramatically longer every time you got a hook. In times past I could regularly get 6-9 pops on a crucial generator. That's two or three minutes of extra time for the other time to finish their objective. That was a game winning perk.
DH needs to get nerfed so something like a blanket change so that you have reduced speed while hurt ( even before you use it) OR :
DBD needs to move to a system where perks are limited in a SWF so they can't be repeated.
But actually why not do both?
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The knight's design is just way too safe.
-There's no reason for survivors to see guard circles on the ground or when the knight channels.
-The flag system to reward with endurance and speed boost is insane.
The only remotely interesting thing about the knight is the borderline exploit that you can go watch on a streamer's channel.
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@Boss said:
I don't really wanna get into the first one, but i specifically remember a mod on here saying that pretending you're AFK or a bot and then taking advantage of the situation is not bannable.
They said they view it as trickery, and it can be completely avoided by just repairing and getting out.
It's not fool-proof though: If you pretend to be AFK and no one comes for you, then you were pretty much AFK and if they report you it could be considered legit.
you can't be reported for killer for being afk - unless you are autp swinging afk botting.
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@Paternalpark said:
With eruption, pain resonance, Call of brine and overcharge it's impossible to do a Gen once a 3 Gen is established. How did the devs think this new meta would help solo q or nerf 4 man?
I'm tired of my gens being regressed for free. Has no one seen Choy's Wesker Cringe vids?
I hate to be the one to tell you but 3 gens were actually easier before Pop got nerfed.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
Just use the offering to deny any map offering. The green hand one. It is literaly made for such a purpose. Or use your own offering and hope you get lucky against theirs. Maps can be boring sometimes with some rotations. Sometimes I feel like I want to play on a certain map for fun. I do not wish to wait for weeks before it shows up so I just use an offering. I never really cared which map is balanced and which is not. I often won with the killer on very survivor sided maps.
I have a friend who already solved the problem. Their game crashes whenever the opposing side uses a map that favors that team.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259544#Comment_3259544
No, I think you're misremembering it, it was if you're over the soft cap of 1600 then your other killers aren't at 1600, they're at something like 1200.
This is the information we have been given from people who can see MMR. I bought a killer during the 50% shard sale and after playing them fewer than 15 games I was back in ultra sweat mode.
The problem with MMR is that it's not fair to have people way over 1600 MMR (say in the 2200 range) playing against people who are 1601 MMR.
Essentially it feels like the devs don't care about balance. The system works for low/middle tier players and everyone suffers at high MMR.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260199#Comment_3260199
yea but tbh i really don't understand people are we trying to keep the game enjoyable for both sides or we just wanna go full on toxic
Tunneling survivors is not inherently toxic. It's the only way to win at high MMR.
Survivors have never worked a generator to 33% then gone around the map and worked every generator to 33% before trying to finish one generator. As the killer you should not feel the need to play by a restriction that survivors do not follow.
Hooking one person three times is half of your expected goal. Hooking three people one time is nothing.
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@Kalowk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259261#Comment_3259261
Double pip for survivor requires chase or unhooks can't do it based solely from gen repairs
You missed the obvious parody of OP's statement. Also the survivors can play around as long as they feel safe and let the killer get some hooks after the game is 99% completed.
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@Mercylicious said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259290#Comment_3259290
Right, but you're ruining the game for other players by utilizing a mechanic that shouldn't be in the game.. And by shouldn't, I mean, you basically stop a player from playing so you can win. In other games, this would be considered exploitation. Also yes, some killers do tunnel just to be toxic, and I'm sure you know the ones. I'm also not talking about tunnelling as in I was the only survivor the killer could find. I mean straight back-to-hook-Andy, I take a hit and he goes for the person I just got off the hook and was in the middle of healing. I've even gone so far as to take a down and the killer would rather leave me slugged to continue tunnelling.
Base-kit borrowed time has done nothing to fix this issue, by the way. Just like Base-kit unbreakable will do nothing to fix the slugging issue.
It is refreshing to go against killers who do not tunnel and camp, however, when 87% of games are lost due to camping and tunnelling that would insinuate a major problem for the game. And if this is the direction that behaviour is taking the game, then can they just come right out and say so so those of us that don't want to lose non-stop and don't find that fun, can quit and move on?
Nope, because that would cut into their bottom dollar. So we're stuck in this middle ground where they say "we hear you", while simultaneously ignoring.
But hey! sure glad they fixed locker saves.
-"Right, but you're ruining the game for other players by utilizing a mechanic that shouldn't be in the game.."
You're talking about SWF right and how it ruins the game for the killer because you can play hyper efficiently in ways the game isn't balanced for.
-"you basically stop a player from playing so you can win"
Get survivors to not tunnel generators and stop breaking my 3 gens and I won't feel the need to tunnel.
-"I'm also not talking about tunnelling as in I was the only survivor the killer could find. I mean straight back-to-hook-Andy, I take a hit and he goes for the person I just got off the hook and was in the middle of healing."
What does a killer get if they get two hooks on Jake and one hook on Claudette? Nothing. What do you get for three hooks on Jake? Jake is dead and there can at most be 3 players on generators. Why should I attack someone twice when I can down the person that just got unhooked with a single attack? The tiles are too safe, the maps are too big and gens are done way too quickly. The killer needs to "catch up" to the survivor's faster objective time if they want to win.
When was the last time as survivor you got one generator to 33% and went around and got all 6 other generators to 33% completion? You have never played that way. Therefore as killer I will always attempt to tunnel one person out. You are playing in a swf you said, which makes you more efficient. To play against all the nonsense in the game right now I need to tunnel to win.
-"Base-kit borrowed time has done nothing to fix this issue"
Base kit BT made me more likely to tunnel. Why? Because it's just another thing in the survivor's favor that they don't need. Where's the built in mechanic to prevent survivors from tunneling gens? Killers should have either gotten base kit Corrupt or base kit Deadlock. Deadlock as a full perk could just double the time so it would be blocked for 60 seconds when combined with the base kit version. Corrupt would be harder to rework as a full perk but if I were on the payroll I could could come up with something.
-"But hey! sure glad they fixed locker saves."
There is no defense against someone jumping in a locker vs a flashlight. It was basically an exploit with no counter. But to make survivors feel better about giving the killers an exploit fix they now have an extra 0.25 seconds for flashlight blinds on pickup which will make them essentially automatic.
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@Beolthar said:
It seems like every other match is against SWFs. I'm an average killer and I would prefer not to play against SWFs as comms give them an unfair advantage IMO. Is there any plan to implement a setting that I could turn on or off that would prevent me from being matched against SWFs?
It's likely going to be never. Nobody would play vs SWF if they had the option. What you should ask for is for SWF to be made less broken.
Ask for SWF to not be able to repeat : characters, items, perks or offerings.
That way it encourages 2 man groups and they are almost not affected. Four man teams are severely limited to balance having voice coms. This would prevent bullying and still let you play with your friends. And they could show you what perks everyone in the SWF has so you know how to coordinate.
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@Mercylicious said:
I have played both killer and survivor, however I am typically a survivor main. I agreed when killers would say it needed to change, that they struggled with getting 4ks. However, I never expected the pendulum to swing in the complete other direction.
Killer seems to be fairly simple, and easy to play - Ive made it rank 1 several months in a row.. Yet, survivor just keeps getting worse.
When rank resets every month, you just get tunnelled and camped for days on end. I have a swf that I typically play with, and each month it seems to get harder and harder to get to rank 1 because so many killers are tunnelling and camping "just to be toxic". Just now, 4 days before reset, I played 23 games in a row. Of which, I escaped 3. The other 20 one of the randoms gets tunnelled out immediately. Then the other random goes, then the killer focused on me and my buddy. EVERY. Game. This is the picture of balance?
I'm at the point where I would rather play a game alone than play dbd, and my swf feels the same. It makes me sad to see this game in this state, with behavior ignoring anyone who isn't a fog whisperer killer main. I've put so much time and money into this game, just to be ignored.... and it's disheartening. My swf won't even get on anymore because they don't see a point. So a lot of times, it's me + a friend and two randoms.... Either MMR needs to be fixed or tunnelling and camping need to be fixed.
Killers do not tunnel to be toxic. They tunnel out survivors to win. Getting two hooks on everyone is the worst possible outcome. That would be like getting all 7 generators to 33% progress. When was the last time you did that as survivor? It was never because that is inefficient. Hooking one person three times is the best result and gives the killer a bonus of -25% gen speed potential for the rest of the game.
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@Kalowk said:
So I am a killer main and I try to avoid tunnels and hook camps as a tactic. However I recently started to survivor grind again and I have to say I am not sure why survivors continue to play the game when you have killers that can abuse the pip system.
A killer can tunnel a player out right at the start and make it a 3v1 which is drastically in their favor, then can even continue to use this tactic a second time. at a 2 v 1 most non-premades are done killer gets a 3-4k easy. Now the killer will only get 1 pip for this at best and on average this is the outcome. However the 2 survivors that were tunneled out will receive a double de-pip and the other a single de-pip.
How is this a system in which it has a balanced outcome, to be honest after doing this grind I have questioned why anyone would want to go through that punishment?
A survivor can tunnel a generator out right at the start and make it 4 gens left which is drastically in their favor. They can even continue to use this tactic a second time to finish two or three gens before the first down. Most premades are 3-4 escapes easy. The killer will depip or if they are lucky get a safety for this outcome. However the 3-4 survivors that escape a double pip.
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@Meako said:
I'm a survivor main, who currently plays killer, at least a few times a day. I don't have any problem playing killer in regards to experience/skill, and this isn't some rant about which side needs buffs or nerfs.
I play survivor so much that it can often feel boring, and i ponder the thought of playing some killer. I love many killers and how they're designed, and i'd love to invest the same, if not, more time into playing as killer. However, when i play killer, the mindset is completely different. You can't use a fun or experimental build like you can in survivor, without the real expectation that you're probably gonna get pwned. Sometimes it feels like the system is against you, and you have to play aggressively to come close to winning. It feels like all hell is going to break loose, if you don't kill at least one survivor in the trial, or you've failed completely. This is regardless of how many hooks you got.
When i play as survivor, winning means almost nothing to me. I can take the fat L consecutively. As killer, it genuinely sucks. I've gone so far as to play Nurse with a sweaty build and secure the 4k at 3gens. Then i'll feel empty, like i didn't really enjoy playing so sweaty, like i didn't really deserve the win too. However, i'll play a killer whose playstyle i genuinely enjoy. A killer that isn't considered as strong at high MMR. Then i'll get served by a sabo squad or something like that. Before you know it, the only real move left when you've completely lost pressure, is to start camping and tunnelling. Which i don't think anyone enjoys.
I asked a popular twitch streamer who plays killer almost always, "What's the secret to becoming a killer main" The response i got was "You have to secretly enjoy pain" . I don't really know what to do with that so my question goes out to other killer mains i guess. How do you do it? How do you take the L and move on so religiously. How do you shake off the competitive mindset, and play for fun. No matter the build, no matter the killer you've picked, and regardless of the outcome. Do i just need anger management? Do i have an inflated ego, or are you guys just built different.
Thanks
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6KF1XX6CQWT8/giphy-286-29456.gif
You build skill so that you lose less often. It's important to remember the game is rigged and survivors are expected to win whenever they are playing in a SWF.
Never play the weak killers.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257504#Comment_3257504
Not upset. Just saying, its possible to hear when a survivor vaults or jumps into a locker.
And the little noise they make which cannot be heard over chase music is there for counterplay. That way the killer can know they had QQ if they are really really paying attention in a stealth scenario.
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You need to understand the dynamics of guile to get people to step on traps. You also need to pressure them as well as a little luck.
If you want best results then use double iri and pick a "grass" map.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257528#Comment_3257528
- Y gens and 3 Gens are stupid. I want to add map-edge teleports so all Killers can move quickly between the sides of the maps. (And then spruce up Hatch in the event of a 3-Gen)
- Killer already gets free slowdown due to the altruism loop when there's a Hooked Survivor. The only thing that you lack most as a Killer is information to start the next chase off Hook to get the Repair/Chase/Hook/Unhook loop going.
- If there is a SoloQ only gamemode it probably would need all Perks/Items/Addons for every player disabled.
- I'd rather see more Perk or map interaction to shut down Loops/Pallets than to just remove them. Some Pallets spawn downed, Survivors get base-kit Any Means Necessary, pick them up or destroy them when you see them to add or remove to the chase prop pool.
- Maybe if they introduce a mode in which all players rotate between Killer and Survivor would I see the need for more competitive map choice.
- I agree, maybe with an odd outlier here and there. (And also remove the Killer Survivor separation shrouds like #########).
- A Survivor Offering to start in a Locker could be interesting. Given that start of match Lethal doesn't really have counterplay (and now that Lethal has use outside of the start of match). And I think an Offering that just makes all brought Survivor Items spawn in chests would be more interesting. If you did just want to remove them all then the Killer should not have a tier where they keep their Addons.
- Blight could see tweaks to the amount of charges the power has (or charge gain rate), and Nurse def only needs one Blink (increase the max range tho). Some Killers do need some love and care given the shift in meta and expanded knowledge base of players.
- I'd like to see collecting parts as a kind of pseudo corrupt at the start, but Deadlock is braindead and I dislike that perk given it's just free slowdown and is denial of an objective right in a players face.
- I think gate regression should only occur when the Killer interacts with it. And that opening the gate as Killer should be removed. And the EGC should start once the last gen is complete.
-"Killer already gets free slowdown due to the altruism loop when there's a Hooked Survivor. The only thing that you lack most as a Killer is information to start the next chase off Hook to get the Repair/Chase/Hook/Unhook loop going."
As soon as you get to efficient survivors that stops being true. Once upon a time we didn't have the extra 15 seconds per hook stage. Generally speaking now that extra time is used to finish gens not rush the unhook.
-"I'd like to see collecting parts as a kind of pseudo corrupt at the start, but Deadlock is braindead and I dislike that perk given it's just free slowdown and is denial of an objective right in a players face."
We suggested this years ago and I don't think they wanted to do it because of similarities to F13. Also sorry but gens can be finished in 4 minutes or faster. That's just too fast and the game needs some kind of natural slowdown built into the game.
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@ReviloDBD said:
Just curious what happened, I remember it was on the PTB for a while, then nothing happened, and now we have a brand new PTB with other content?
Or is it apart of it? I haven't been paying too much attention, so just wanted to ask.
I want to know what happened to the PTB where they made it so you can only be healed like twice and then you are hurt for the rest of the game. If they want to bring that back and then add unbrekable base kit as like a 90 second base thing so it's like 60 seconds with a perk - sure.
@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256742#Comment_3256742
So they'll introduce more Perks that allow you to pick yourself up. Why not a Inner Healing-like Self-pickup Perk for Cleansing a Totem?
And non of that addresses excessive slugging proxy (1min+) which is something that is conditionally done by how the Killer feels to play.
-"And non of that addresses excessive slugging proxy (1min+) which is something that is conditionally done by how the Killer feels to play."
Consider for a moment playing killer - since it is something I do not think you do regularly. Survivors want to break 3 gen setups with no regard to how that makes the killer feel. Leaving one person on the floor allows the killer to proxy the hook and the person on the floor. This causes tension and difficulty for the survivors. That is good for the killer. The moment he tries to hook both he will usually lose the first survivor on the hook. Why would you do that when you can force the survivors to make a save that you can guard? If you are greedy and go for the second hook you will almost certainly not get a hit. If you wait and slug you will get a hit and maybe another down (potentially before a rescue).
I would stop tunneling if a number of things happened. We don't need everything on this list but many of these should be changed if we want to talk about making the game fair.
- You cannot have "Y gens" which is what my friend called the opposite of a 3 gen. All maps would be sized down to 9000m² so there are no longer "huge" maps.
- The killer gets free and meaningful slowdown by hooking the person they did not hook last (such as +15% instant regression to the generator with the most progress for not tunneling). Something like basekit dying light would be fine (that affects everyone and has no +healing for survivors) and of course it would stack with Dying Light. That of course means after 6 hooks not on the obsession your base time for generator repair will be : 133 seconds.
- SWF is an option I can choose not to play against, Solo queue players get +4 perks when playing in a match with SWF (killer gets any perk, survivors only get "info perks" that are chosen ahead of the game and activate "in case of swf") OR SWF is limited to having no repeat perks, characters, offerings or items.
- Pallet/vault density is spread out so you cannot go pallet to pallet to pallet anymore. Likewsie no more than 2 structures would ever be "linked" for looping.
- When one party picks a map the other side picks which map in that tileset gets chosen. There would also always be one map outside of that tileset selected randomly. Example : survivors play a farm map offering. Any savvy killer will pick abattoir. But maybe the random option has midwitch so you pick that instead.
- All survivors start together on every map with one exception (see #7).
- An offering is added as "secret" for killer to replace the "surviovrs start apart/together" offerings. The secret offering returns all items/addons to survivors inventory. The yellow version prevents the killer from using any addons while the purple version lets the killer use their addons while forcing the survivors to leave their items/offerings behind. Survivors retain the offering to start as far away from the killer and gain a new one : start 20m away from the group in a locker. No more than one person may use the new survivor offering per match (extra copies are wasted).
- Blight and Nurse get brought down to "A" level and every killer is brought up to be close to them in terms of power. Maybe for example killers get a "sprint" move after hooking someone and they are not in a chase. Alternatively we could add teleport spots where all the other killers could teleport across the map instantly by going through a certain map wall. Much like MHW the survivors would not be able to use it.
- Killers get some basic slowdown such as either : base kit corrupt or base kit deadlock. Deadlock would just make the timer be 60 seconds. Also a "rollback protetion" would be added so that if you 99% two generators and try to cheat the perk then the other generator would rollback its completion and be on 99% completion. Corrupt would need a rework to remain a perk but Im sure it could be done.
- Gate regression is added so that if the switch on a gate is not held then the gate will not stay powered. This happens automatically with no input from the killer. Perks that help with gates could be buffed to pause the regression (such as sole survivor and wake up - not resilance).
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@Aceislife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256764#Comment_3256764
He is right about the "augh". You can definetly hear it as killer when a survivor uses Quick and quiet.
If you're upset about a noise that happens outside of chase then maybe you have a point. But QQ is impossible to hear over the standard chase music blaring in your ear.
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@duygu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256760#Comment_3256760
midwich is fair? you gotta break about 6 breakable walls in order to get rid of some infinites first off. but that doesn't matter if you are not playing a killer who can counter holding W, because there's almost no outplay even against a braindead survivor who exploits the map's horrible design (which is literally a square with almost no cut-offs or dead-ends)
Most people will tell you midwich is killer sided. I play killers besides nurse/blight but I bring Bamboozle when I play the "lesser killers". That changes the situation completely. No killer is better than nurse on that map and many people will DC the moment you blink (or the moment you prove you are lethal with your blinks).
It's my experience that survivors with about 5000 hours will get flustered the second you activate the bamboozle plan. You can immediately force pallets or force them to take a hit. It's one of the "hidden gem" killer perks. As an example, when I play nemesis on that map I purposefully do not remove the breakable walls by several of the vaults. You can almost always get a down because people just don't listen for the BAM noise. The one by the gate is a literal death trap as I vault in/out and then I get a free hit and you are locked in. If they try to play around you using BAM on the window then you can just whip it away mid chase.
I did the same thing to a team on dead dog once where I had two people down in the dead end room upstairs. Patrol for 20 seconds , then bam the window. It's always really funny to me when people try to get cute (jump into a dead end room that makes an infinite if you break the wall) and you have an ace up your sleeve that removes their "brilliant" plan.
Many of the streamers will tell you a perk like Bamboozle is B/C tier perk unless you are playing MM, Billy, LF or Legion. Well that's great if you have 7000-9000 hours and you can play every killer well and do perfect little mind games. For the rest of us there is bamboozle; you can brute force loops so the survivor is forced to play it the way you want.
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@LeeONE said:
Sprintburst-fine as it is
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YMY7ALU2RO1M/image.png
Quick and quiet- this perk can be really good in some situations, but there are 2 thing that completely ruining it
- The "eugh" sound that survivors are making while vaulting, some good killers can hear it anyway and perk becomes useless, just remove that sound also while using Q&Q
- The cooldown, because of it you can't use perk very efficient, you may activate it while you don't even want to, I would maybe add active ability button before/while vaulting to remove notification, but this seems too complicated so maybe just decrease cooldown to 10 seconds
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/96CLM52O42SN/image.png
Adrenaline-it's just too good for lategame, but completely useless rest of the time
I would remove heal or haste after completing 5 gens in exchange of effect that helps you throughout the match, for example: after gen being repaired, gain 7% haste for ~10 seconds next time killer start chasing you, and if you are injured, heal 25% of remaining (maybe even total) progress, haste part probably shouldn't work if you've been in chase in last 20 seconds, because that might extend early game chases which are cruicial
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4CSHKUZASZWV/image.png
What are your thoughts about changes like these?
Your changes suck.
Killer's don't hear your noises when you use QQ. Also just to point out, the very loud breathing noises you hear as survivor those are heavily muted when you play killer.
Meg is one of the worst characters as her perks are fine. Adrenaline is strong when you know you will be alive at that point in the game. Sprint has been used for 6 years because it works just fine too. Her one "questionable" perk QQ actually can be amazing if you combine it with something like dance with me and lithe.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
Because many people (I assume killer mains) in last discussion complained about Eyrie of Crows being survivor sided while I called this map balanced - here the new example:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YKIL3U978YRI/20221105214140-1.jpg
That wasn't even a 3gen anymore. It was a stupid 5-gen-combination around main building. Killer can just completely ignore the other half of the map having such generators spawns.
1/3 of the map had 5 generators. Another 1/3 had 1 and the shack side had the last one.
Anyone who would call this bullshit survivor sided is welcome to play against my noobish survivor-main nurse or bamboozle bubba in this configuration. Im pretty sure I will perform well on this unfair survivor sided map...
You're either joking or a noob if you think that is a killer sided map.
An example of a true balanced map is wreckers yard. It's good sized and the loops are spread out pretty fairly. Even midwitch is pretty fair since it is a very strong shift w map. Father campbell's chapel is another fair map.
You will notice one thing in common about fair maps : they are under 9000m².
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From a balance perspective it was not fair to give one side knowledge of how many times everyone has been hooked and to deny that information to the other side.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255838#Comment_3255838
Yeah just 45s is far too short for a base UB.
should be a stage system or something. Can be picked up at 50% (which takes 30s to get to), and then get up at 60s.
No it should stay like it is. If you want to get up off the floor bring unbreakable, no mither or the boon.
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
In my opinion they should focus on changing the game itself to make facecamping and tunneling less viable. We should NOT rely on perks to solve base game problems.
You're not wrong but it is unlikely to change any time soon.
Gen regression should be 1:1 killer to survivor repair rates.
@Official_hilbert said:
As of late, there have been many inclusions yo dbd to counter tunneling. Such as perks like off the record and DS (which should be reverted back to 5 sec) and built in borrowed time to the maximum degree it can be implemented.
However the biggest issue that most survivors are tired of having to deal with that has almost no counter in some scenarios is face camping. Its nothing but toxic and rather unfun for the survivor that waited to load in only to hang on the hook until they die. Most commonly done by Leatherface, who is literally designed to benefit this way but all killers are capable of face camping. So I had two ideas to counter this frustrating playstyle.
- This one somewhat requires some changes to the way killer powers work. There are two killers in the game who cannot use their ability next to hooked survivors. The twins and the artist. The Artist cannot place any crows around a hooked survivor, if you want to send a crow to a generator or a totem etc., they have to be a certain distance away from the hop to do. Why is this not a common mechanic included for all killers? Why is a killer like the artist unable to user her ability but a Leatherface can be in the hooked survivors face and still be able to use his chainsaw?
- The second idea comes with the changing of two perks. Those being Reassurance and Deliverance. As of now only 1 perk really only helps with face camping, and that’s reassurance. My idea was to change the way reassurance works. Instead of just being a 30 second pause to the hook timer, I would have it as a token system much like small game. The perk starts with 5 tokens, everytime a Gen is completed it loses a token. If the killer is face camping the hook timer doesn’t move. Once 2 tokens are gone the hooked survivor gets a 100% chance to unhook themselves. This only works if the killer is actively face camping. Once the exit gates are powered the perk acts like how it currently does and only pauses the timer for 30 seconds.
- As for Deliverance, I would add an extra benefit to this perk. Right now, you only get value from this perk if you safely unhook a survivor, only if you aren’t hooked first. If you get hooked first this perk basically becomes useless. So my idea was to add a built reassurance to this perk. If you safely unhook a survivor after you’ve been hooked, you can pause your own wiggle timer for 20 seconds, a built in reassurance. This gives the perk much more value and isn’t a waste of you get hooked first.
Those are my ideas, to clarify the reassurance buff would only work in a face camping situation. Would like to see what you think of these ideas and what changes you’d make. Thanks for reading.
The correct course of action is to make base changes to the game so that hooking a survivor you didn't hook last slows down all the other survivors without any perk interactions. Until that happens it is just better to tunnel one person out.
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If the changes dont include something like : total removal of the overheat system except when using the saw around hooks then it won't matter.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255624#Comment_3255624
I never once saw a game from the PTB where Last Standing caused a killer to win a match they weren’t going to win without it.
But far more importantly there were tons of games where the survivors won because slugging was effectively deleted as an option for killers.
Without the option to slug it is incredibly difficult to create pressure when the survivors are efficient.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255153#Comment_3255153
Billy has some antiloop, but i can be used on less tiles than bubbas and is way harder to pull off...
But what was the whole point of the argument with legion compared to blight then? I mean when you admit people die against killers that know what they're doing, while the survivors themselves have no idea what to do against the killer... What is this comparisson supposed to mean then?
Billy has antiloop if you are very good around say a car. Most tiles he has nothing. He is forced to use Bamboozle to have a chance to get a hit.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255766#Comment_3255766
I don't know what mortar jumping is but if it's as broken as you say it is—skybilly was not NEARLY that strong, sorry. It was a gimmick 95% of the time and more flashy than anything else the 5% of the time it was actually used to gain the upper hand.
For whatever reason Billy was always causing collision issues. There was a patch he could warp through a wall and not need to vault on the suffocation pit. There was a patch where you could get on top of the combine to make the obstacle pointless.
Those things were cute but they broke the game. Flashlight tech changing direction with vaults does the same.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Eruption has 3 major issues:
1) Long incapacitated timers that you can do nothing about are miserable
2) It affects solos much harder than SWFs
3) At it's peak, this perk provides far too much value, providing way more slowdown PGTW ever did, a perk that the devs felt needed to be absolutely destroyed in 6.1.0.
The fix to eruption is to cut the incapaciated in half but make it apply in a 6 meter radius around affected gens instead of only survivors repairing those gens.
You could also increase the regression a little bit, like 2-5%, as compensation. It would fix the major issues with this perk. The incapacitated doesn't feel quite as bad when it isn't for too long. It affects SWF players mostly equally since they would have to get off the gen and run away from it making it not so trivial to call right before you go down. The amount of slowdown it provides is a little more in line with other perks.
No. The solution is to make it affect solo and SWF equally. Do not let call outs prevent its function. Make the gen unworkable but let the survivor do other stuff for any non affected gen for 45 sec.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255133#Comment_3255133
I suppose that’s fair enough in terms of arguing advantageousness, but I still hold that they should have embraced skybilly instead of removing it. It was fun and encouraged incredible creativity and even when used advantageously I really don’t see it being overpowered or unbalanced, intentional or not. Some exploits of game design are unfair and problematic but at the same time some of the most fun and interesting game mechanics are born from devs embracing unintentional gameplay, ie. rocket jumping in Team Fortress 2.
Sorry but mortar jumping in tribes was incredibly broken as it let a heavy fly all the way across the map to fight lights at the enemy base. It was fun but not fair and Skybilly was the same. If you want to "fly" pick nurse.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255011#Comment_3255011
This!
And they need to change that fully regressed gens can still have Eruption (or Overcharge for that matter) on them.
That's not a fair exchange.
A fair exchange would be this :
When eruption goes off any generator affected cannot be stopped regressing for 45 seconds. Any perks affecting a single generator that are applied without any necessary cooldown will be applied when eruption goes off.
In other words : call of brine and Overcharge could be applied to the generator (potentially both) and when eruption goes off you can run somewhere else but that generator cannot be stopped regressing for 45 seconds.
Or Eruption could just always remove 25% generator progress instantly and then be blocked for 30 seconds and come back in a state of regression.
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@Archol123 said:
And also this thread is supposed to be about Billy and Bubba and not Blight or other stuff, so we should keep it on the topic..
Discussing killers and their powers is on topic. If we were talking about cars or boats or what the killers looked like in bathing suits then we would be off topic.
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254872#Comment_3254872
But that seems kind of fair to me dude... What you're basically saying is because people don't understand what they're supposed to do they just go down in no time because the blight knows what to do... Therefore I don't really get what the issue is... Generally speaking when a survivor does not know what he is doing he will go down quickly, even against an m1 killer... And considering Legion... With some addons you're able chain 4 hits and get a down rather easily... Did it a few weeks back and it basically worked every game because once again... People usually don't really know what the optimal thing to do is and therefore go down...
And to say a killer is fun to go against because he is easy to win against is really a meaningless thing to say... The fun part about the game is the chase interaction in the sense of knowing what the other one is able to and react appropriately to what you either see him doing or assume he is going to do... So still basekit blight is one of the most balanced killers in the entire game when it comes to that... There is almost always something you could have done better against blight...
-"What you're basically saying is because people don't understand what they're supposed to do they just go down in no time because the blight knows what to do... Therefore I don't really get what the issue is"
This is entirely why Nurse is strong. Most people don't play nurse and they try to run her as if she were another killer that played by the limits of walls and pallets. They dont know the limits of her power so they just get caught like a deer in headlights.
But when you compare Billy and LF as they are now you will see a huge reversal in how lethal they are compared to how they used to be.
Billy has no antiloop and LF has antiloop when you use his best addons. If we go back and look at "instant saw" Billy it makes a lot of sense compared to what LF has right now. At the time LF was a terrible mess. Now Billy is a terrible mess. It's almost like Billy is free and is therefore garbage and LF is the "pay to win" model. The funny thing here is that DLC characters especially licensed ones were originally advertised as "pay to lose".
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254870#Comment_3254870
It didn’t make him more viable. It provided no real advantage to go where skybilly enabled you to go.
Sorry but that is not true. Need I send you a video where someone is on the hangman portion of dead dog and they bridge the gap to threaten the main building generator without touching the ground?
That was amazing and skillful when someone did it but it was not meant to be part of the game.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254740#Comment_3254740
The comparison of legion and blight lacks... Besides Stunning him which you basically shouldn't do there is not much you can do to prevent legion hitting you... Blight on the other hand has to work with flicks and bump logic to get his hits... Basekit Blight is probably one of the fairest killers in the game...
I think you might need to re read my response. Legion gets the first hit automatically and then what? Blight gets both hits quite often nearly automatically. This happens because of hug tech. Blight was very easy to play against before Hug Tech was discovered. On release he was very fun to play against because it was a very easy win against almost every Blight you went against.
Blight requires the killer to know how the survivor wants to run the loop optimally. This takes time but becomes "automatic" once you play killer for a while. As a survivor you need to know how the blight wants to run the tile knowing how he thinks you want to run the tile. And then to make the game difficult you need to run the tile in a different way than he expects. In order to do that you need to either understand blight very well or have a completely thorough understanding of survivor mechanics.
Most people lack one or both levels of understanding and just go down quickly against Blight.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254754#Comment_3254754
Sky Billy wasn’t about teleportation, it was just about getting to roofs and other high places you couldn’t before. Hell, it wasn’t even really advantageous, just funny.
If we can’t have sky Billy at least let us have space Billy back.
How do you go from ground to roof? Teleportation or exploitation of mechanics.
I think what you are saying is : Sky nonsense made Billy a little more viable. If so then you are not wrong. But why just not ask to make Billy viable again?
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@almofan1001 said:
Before so-called "REWORK":
- 3 Health States
- Acts as a 2nd chance perk
- Can be used both by noobs and pros alike
- Destroys M1 killers, is ok/good against most other killers
- Creates Uncounterable Situations
- Overwhelmingly meta
After so-called "REWORK":
- 3 Health States (with added sprint burst BENEFIT)
- Acts as a 2nd chance perk
- Can be used both by noobs and pros alike (confirmed by pick rate)
- Destroys M1 killers, is ok/good against most other killers (arguably even better)
- Creates Uncounterable Situations because the reaction is on the survivor's side and the killer's counterplay is "I hope the survivor is bad haha"
- Overwhelmingly meta
DH was strong for 5 years, then for the first time in 5 years it's getting reworked/nerfed and not only:
1 It's still overwhelmingly meta (I tracked my killer games, DH is the most used perk + dev stats suggest the same story)
2 It's still arguably as strong, if not stronger than the old DH
How does a perk stay very strong for 5 years, gets apparently reworked, and is still as strong as before? How is it even possible LOL? Meanwhile, DS gets hardcore nerfed, but DH stays the same both in effectiveness and pick rate. The objective to rework DH has failed in every metric possible.
And no, the new DH doesn't require "more skill". If it required a significant amount of more skill, then its pick rate wouldn't be as high. Noobs would stop using it as it would be a waste of perk slot, and pick other exhaustion perks.
DH should straight up be removed from the game if the game developers can't figure out how to properly rework a perk. It's honestly laughable at this point.
I just want to point out that Pop went from always shaving 20 seconds off a generator to mostly shaving 4-8 seconds off a generator.
Dead Hard still makes chases far too long far too often. The window to trigger it is smaller and it takes more skill to use but it literally has the same effect it did before. This is not fair considering killers lost so much strength in their gen defense perks.
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254737#Comment_3254737
...Why can't you swing during the invulnerability period? Of course you can swing, you just have to understand and react to what happens next. From the killer's perspective, dropping chase is always a viable decision if you don't think you can secure a down, so dropping chase and getting a short Mend period out of the survivor is actually better for you than the survivor simply getting to run away.
(Also, brief side note, Bubba does not give a solitary damn about Dead Hard nor any other form of Endurance, nor does Blight or Nurse, but I will grant you some killers will be forced to hit it more often. Most of them have powers that let them get a follow up hit pretty easily, but still.)
As for your final point, you're being misleading. Yes, it's the most used survivor perk, but it went from a 70% pickrate in high MMR lobbies to a 20% one. That is a giant drop and an absolute success. The killer perks look similar, if I recall correctly- because it doesn't matter what the most popular perk is if it's only the most picked by a small margin. It matters when perks absolutely dominate with huge differences in the pickrate between them and their closest competitors, which was the case with Dead Hard.
The devs perk use chart showed DH had a 75% usage rate by volume. After the patch it went down in use because it was made harder to use. But it still gives you an extra health state and literally does almost exactly what it did before.
Let's take a look at what happened to Pop. Pop was sitting around 26% usage before the patch because it was the perk carrying killer. Pop is now almost completely dead with a 6% use rate. The effect is so minimal that it only works when combined with multiple other gen regression perks.
Given the choice : I want to remove the 5% always kick rate and have old Pop back. Current Pop might make sense if the base kick were 10% so that most of the time you are kicking a generator for 15% progress loss.
Source for data : (https://nightlight.gg/perks/Pop_Goes_the_Weasel)
The reality is that Dead Hard was made harder to use but it still does almost everything it did before as you can no longer use it to create distance to get to a pallet.
Suggestion : make the game remember that you have a deep wound from Dead Hard when you go down. Get unhooked? Start with a deep wound if you had one from dead hard. That would make it so you can't dead hard again until you mend. You won't have your 3rd health state Over and over and over again unless the killer leaves you alone.
This would put the perk in the "trash" category that Pop is in now. That would mean that against a tunneling killer you would get to one extra health state and then be in deep wound every time you get off the hook. So you could only use it more than once per game against a killer that does not tunnel.
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@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249715#Comment_3249715
Please bring back skybilly actually. I beg.
I would like to have 2018 Billy back. The addons that made him strong could not be used every game. He had a strong power that was good but only in a straight line.
You can keep all the skytech as I don't think that is good for the game. If you want to teleport play Nurse not Billy.
To be perfectly clear though : Billy is a pathetic killer choice right now. The only time I would use the saw is to zoom from one part of the map to another unless someone was massively out of position (say around a hill with no nearby tiles).
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@Vampwire said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3250259#Comment_3250259
I appreciate the way you've laid out a nuance take on everything. You seem to have been around for a long time. I just wanted to say, yes, Billy is better in a straight line with speed but that's only techincally. While he has a faster base travel time, he can get screwed on many maps. His power can't adapt to these sorts of things. A Billy on lerys is just essentially an m1 killer who can maybe instadown if people play really badly.
Blight's mobility is extremely versatile and easy to use. You get a 1.5 second recovery from using it I believe. There are some small variants like using the swing to end the rush, adding a small amount of time to it. Still, Blight receives almost no downside for using his power and gets tons of reward for it.
There will be occasions where you barely miss the distance to bump, but so many maps have things to collide with that it's not super hard to do so. The only harsh part about his mobility would be sliding off of objects, but in a way that's an advantage too as I'm sure all of us are aware.
-"Blight receives almost no downside for using his power and gets tons of reward for it."
You are absolutely correct. I do not want to paint the picture that Billy is good but I do not want to short the one thing he does better than anyone else. If you go back in time to a 2016-2018 build you can actually make incredible saw sprints where you end up with 2000-3000 points from a saw sprint or more. That was a very scary time to play survivor when Billys like me could traverse the map multiple times and check all the generators without ever getting out of a sprint.
To be blunt Blight moves too fast and has his power back too quickly. Compare him to legion for example : ok Legion uses his power and gets the first hit pretty much automatically. Blight gets both hits pretty much automatically. And then he hooks the survivor and then travels at warp speed to the far corner of the map. That is wrong.
This sets up a problem where this killer works great and everyone lower in power quite frankly just sucks. Do you want to spend an extra 20 seconds every time to you want to start a chase? If not then pick blight.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249725#Comment_3249725
My guy thinks two matches from ages ago seriously decides which killer is better than the other lmao
Did you ever play when Billy had flick? If not it felt gross - as a matter of fact I never used it when I could because it didn't feel right.
In case you do not know : Billy's power has been continually adjusted over the years to be worse by a measure of a few steps each patch. They capped his turn rate so you need the boot addons. They made bumping anything more punishing. They increased the delay after using the saw to sprint and when you could use the hammer. The mere existence of indoor maps is a nerf to 2016-2018 Billy who at the time could zoom from point A to point B on almost any map with nearly no obstruction.
And we have yet to mention the overheat situation and the loss of every meaningful addon.
Unless I missed it : also we have not mentioned that Hook posts are non collision for Leatherface in his saw attack mode. Do you know how dumb that is? I don't know if is still a thing but for a while Billy was stopped from sprinting if his saw hit a hook while it was raised in a sprint. Meanwhile Leatherface cannot hit a hook post. Leatherface would be terrible at camping if he was in danger of his saw hitting the post and sending him into a tantrum - but that's not a thing.
Friendo, watch the video and look how LF has antiloop with those addons - something Billy used to have if you were very skilled (but was taken away unless you use addons).
@Vampwire said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249803#Comment_3249803
Yet again, not the point. The point isn't about their base abilities. It's about how in the same patch they nerfed Billy for being able to do the many things Bubba can do now with no punishment. Chainsaw spam, camping, add-ons that make him not have to play by certain rules of his power or make him insanely lethal. It's dumb to nerf Billy so hard for such things but let Bubba do it during the SAME patch.
Along with Billy just having multiple counterplay options already built into his kit, while Bubba is basically don't let him get close enough to chainsaw. Bubba can wreak havoc easily with far less mechanical skill required. Even Blight is part of this problem. Basically being the new Billy. Blight can do even crazier flicks, is far less punishing for mistakes, and has much stronger add-ons that leaves really no reason to play Billy rather than liking the character.
Their powers in concept are nearly identical. Bubba is the opposite of Billy, trading speed and mobility for destructive power and able to devastate the team at any moment. But Billy doesn't really have anything else going for him, and as I said, he's outdone by basically every other killer with some type of mobility based power.
"-Their powers in concept are nearly identical. Bubba is the opposite of Billy, trading speed and mobility for destructive power and able to devastate the team at any moment. But Billy doesn't really have anything else going for him, and as I said, he's outdone by basically every other killer with some type of mobility based power."
While I largely agree with what you have to say this is actually not correct. Billy is the fastest killer in a straight line over long distances with no obstructions or ones that can be avoided. Blight has to bounce and his power runs out unless he has a survivor to chain his power activation. When hug tech is removed Blight will also be "slower".
Technically Ring can move faster than Billy in terms of map movement but teleporting long distances is a different idea.
Billy used to be an S tier killer and I feel someone from marketing said hey wait a minute, why would anyone buy Hag when Billy exists? It might seem strange to think but long ago he and Nurse were the S tier killers.
@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Billy got nerfed because of charge speed. As in, revving extremely fast: reducing 2.5 charge time to 1.8 seconds.
Bubba's rev time is 2 seconds base, lower because he needs to get a lot closer.
Billy's chainsaw can be used to break pallets, catch up, mobility, and down.
Bubba's is purely a chase tool. It can shred pallets and down but that's it, really.
You're trying to compare two killers whose powers are radically different except they use a chainsaw.
-"Bubba's is purely a chase tool. It can shred pallets and down but that's it, really."
I suggest you watch the video I posted above as well. With the right addons LF has antiloop with his saw. And when you bring Bamboozle it forces a pallet or you go down.
And while the best addons give LF limited mobility he will never move like Blight or Nurse. No one is suggesting otherwise. People like me who used to play Billy all the time realize that Billy is just "meh" by comparison to what he was before. Now he has no strong addons, can be easily looped and his power is rendered almost useless by many maps.
You can be a mediocre looper and give a good Billy a 2 gen run depending on map and killer's loadout. Try the same thing against a just average Pyramid Head and you last half a generator. Killers that have anti loop are just "better" than killers that have mobility and no antiloop.
Also just to be clear : Billy got nerfed according to the devs because low/mid tier players were fanning the chainsaw 99% ready to strike to make rescues impossible. And yet at the same time no adjustment was made to LF who can do the same thing but better as he can hit you twice and render a perk like BT worthless.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3249696#Comment_3249696
I like 2 and 3, as it wont make honing stone basekit since that could be too strong, but would make it so that if the survivor is injured, they will need to be rescued to avoid being downed, while honing stone remains unchanged. however disarming a trap while injured should not down them, instead causing deep wounds. Disarming a trap while in deep wounds does not effect the survivor. If trapper has bloody coils equipped and they are injured however, it should immediately down them (animation being like they were downed by deep wounds, not hit by a basic attack). While being healthy and disarming a bear trap has the standard injure effect, it also also inflicts mangled if the trapper has bloody coils equipped. The mangled, hemmorhage, and deep wounds addons when stepping in a bear trap should all be combined into one addon as well. i think all this would help trapper be buffed a lot and not needing bloody coils/trapper sack and honing stone to feel playable
-"The mangled, hemmorhage, and deep wounds addons when stepping in a bear trap should all be combined into one addon as well."
That could be a replacement for bloody coil which would be "base kit".
I would like to see purple trapper sack reworked again but I was talking base kit not addons. My idea for that would be : you start with 5 traps (effectively +2 total) and every 30 seconds you get the rest until you have them all. You can always carry all your traps and you can move them -unlike the current addon. Then the green addon will also give +2 traps but you start with 1 in hand and can always carry an extra trap total.
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@Krazzik said:
At top level Bubba is below Billy and is infact in the bottom three killers in the game.
Here's the proof that you are absolutely dead wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfxjkjO4eY@Vampwire said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3248981#Comment_3248981
How many people do you encounter that you would consider top level every match? Balancing shouldn't focus on the very top level because top level is just camping people into second stage and securing like 2 kills while all the gens pop. But yes, at his very very top level of play he can outperform Bubba. Doesn't mean that he still isn't hurt by the nerf or outdone in many ways his power functions now. Nor that he can consistently out-do these other killers.
If I play hard as killer I will get to a point where every game is people who play like robots and basically make closer to zero than one mistake per game. You cannot balance a game without looking at the top to limit some of the things the best players do that give tremendous advantage over the "middle of the pack".