DBDVulture
DBDVulture
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288325#Comment_3288325
Taking into account some of these, I'll be changing the OP, but I'll clarify a few perks that I think aren't as bad when changed:
- BBQ: The reason I added this new measure is to reward not tunneling. There's no hugely direct punishment FOR tunneling, but you're not gaining the benefits from it. Also, the effect works like Distressing, where you're not getting Bonus BP, just increased score event scores.
- Fire Up: The reason I changed this is because Fire Up itself needs some sort of substantial change. It's far too weak in the current state of the game for the way you have to earn it.
- Grim Embrace: It sounds complicated, but think of it like this; it fills 1/4 of your Perk icon for each unique survivor, and 1/8 of it for tunneling people. This is to give it a way to actually activate outside of 4 unique Survivors.
- Iron Maiden: I'm just trying to give people one less perk meant for Exposure, but one cooler perk that gives an interesting effect on Leon and Dwight mains.
- Monitor: The reason I added the speed boost is to give Killers who have less mobility to be able to catch up slightly faster and make chases a little more interesting. Though I'll likely add a cooldown to prevent resets.
- Predator: No.
- Territorial imperative: I'll find a way to change it to be more interesting.
- Trail of Torment: The effect can stack with any regression perk, including Overcharge, Call of Brine, Eruption, Oppression, Jolt, etc. It works in a similar vein to Potential Energy, which works in the same way with progression.
Before the 6.4 patch Fire up was actually an S tier perk for Michael Myers
1) people always misread the perk as something else (usually brutal or superior anatomy)
2) you got extra pallet break speed, vault speed and pickup speed (all of these are very good but as "sexy" as say Hubris when it procs)
3) the more you are "losing" the more the perk kicks in which is the exact opposite of most of the "win more" perks we have as options.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
Sounds like killers are just getting lazy now. Recently killers had their entire basekit buffed while survivor was mostly nerfed. This was to shakeup the meta. Now killers tunnel and camp more than ever and still use at least one slowdown, usually more.
Ah yes survivor was "buffed" so much relative to killer last patch that Otz decided to "take the gloves off" because he was more frustrated than ever at the state of play. Remember this is a 9k hour player who is no longer playing "nice" due to recent game changes because if he does he will lose/have extremely frustrating games.
Overall lower tier players and mid tier players have a better experience with the 6.0 changes but the game is definitely worse for killer at the upper end of play (and got even worse by the 6.4 patch that nerfed Wesker/MM/Legion by proxy and by that time introduced a perk to finish generators in 40-50 seconds).
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288312#Comment_3288312
No it's not. The effective duration is shorter even with the speed boost. If you "pre run" they effectively don't have a power.
Patch 5.7.0
Rework: reworked The Legion to lean into their signature - running really fast with a knife!
- Buff: The Legion now gains an additional +0.2 m/s to their Frenzy speed with each successful Frenzy Hit, up to +0.8 m/s.
Source : https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Frank,_Julie,_Susie,_Joey
That is a flat buff with no downside - Just like I said.
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@russf10 said:
I think nurses base-kit should be her old addon that you cant teleport through walls but you get 3 blinks. or maybe only her first blink gets to travel through walls but her second doesnt, also make her hits count as normal hits. Nurse is absolutely busted with little to no counterplay, please change her power, the majority of players HATE going against nurses, every time I go against a nurse someone either gives up or dc's and its getting boring AF
I will agree with you if :
We allow non nurse/killers to have the option to not match with any SWF players.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288300#Comment_3288300
Yes starting the trial together would be great, but I really dislike the idea of having an offering to remove such a balancing change.
As for the High MMR part... Yeah a high number exists, but it does not mean anything because of the priority matchmaking takes with faster queues over balance... So what does that useless number even matter for?
It's a sorting number so that people with 50 horus don't face killers with 9000 hours. It's hidden so you can't gripe on the forums that you have 1200 MMR and were placed against a 1800 MMR killer. Some people know their MMR but moderation does not allow elaboration.
Remove MMR and the problem goes away. Over a long enough time line Random Assortment is the best arrangement for all players. It is healthy for the game for bad players to occasionally play really good killers (or survivors).
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
The following perks will be talked about for this thread, and this will only go over what should be done to them:
- Barbecue and Chili
- Beast of Prey
- Blood Echo
- Claustrophobia
- Deathbound
- Dragon's Grip
- Eruption
- Fire Up
- Grim Embrace
- Hangman's Trick
- Iron Maiden
- Monitor & Abuse
- Predator
- Shadowborn
- Territorial Imperative
- Trail of Torment
Barbecue and Chili
After hooking a Survivor, the auras of all other Survivors who are at least 60/50/40 meters away from you will have their auras revealed to you for 4 seconds.
Each time you hook a unique Survivor, gain 1 Token, up to a maximum of 4 Tokens:
- For each Token in your possession, gain 25% additional Bloodpoints in Sacrifice score events.
- All Tokens are consumed if you hook the same Survivor twice in a row.
Beast of Prey
After putting a Survivor into the Dying State, Beast of Prey activates:
- Grants the Undetectable status effect for 13/14/15 seconds.
Scourge Hook: Blood Echo
After putting a Survivor on a Scourge Hook, all other injured Survivors will be afflicted with the Hemorrhage and Exhaustion status effects until that Survivor is unhooked.
After the Survivor is unhooked:
- The Hemorrhage status effect lingers until Survivors afflicted with it are healed.
- The Exhaustion status effect lingers for 20/25/30 seconds after.
Claustrophobia
Once a Survivor is injured by any means, Claustrophobia activates for the next 20/25/30 seconds:
- The next time a Survivor performs a rushed vault on a window, that window becomes blocked for the remainder of Claustrophobia's duration.
Deathbound
When a Survivor heals another Survivor for the equivalent of one health state, they will scream and reveal their location to you.
- For the next 60 seconds, that Survivor will be afflicted with the Oblivious status effect when 16/12/8 meters away from the healed Survivor.
- When exiting that range, that Survivor's aura will be revealed to you for 3 seconds.
Dragon's Grip
Performing a damage generator action activates Dragon's Grip for the next 30 seconds:
- The first Survivor that interacts with that Generator during that time will scream, revealing their location for 4 seconds and becoming Exposed for 60 seconds.
- If the Generator is not interacted with during that time, it will automatically explode and apply an instant 15% regression to that Generator.
Dragon's Grip has a cooldown of 110/100/90 seconds once the Generator is damaged.
Eruption
Performing a damage generator action on a Generator applies Eruption:
- The auras of all Generators affected by Eruption are highlighted in yellow.
- The next time a Survivor is hooked, all Generators with Eruption applied to them will explode, applying an instant 10% regression penalty to those affected Generators.
- For each Generator damaged after the first, apply an additional 2% regression penalty whenever all Generators explode by Eruption, up to a maximum of 12% additional regression.
Survivors within 8 meters of a Generator once it explodes will also be applied the following effects:
- Affected Survivors will scream and reveal their location to you.
- Applies the Hindered status effect to all Survivors for the next 20/25/30 seconds.
Fire Up
When a Generator is completed, Fire Up activates for the next 40/50/60 seconds:
- Gain a 20% action speed bonus in damaging generators, breaking pallets and breakable walls, and vaulting window locations.
- Gain a 20% action speed bonus in picking up and dropping Survivors.
- Gain a 50% action speed bonus in snuffing Boon Totems and hooking Survivors.
- These effects become permanent once all Generators are completed.
Fire Up will gain additional duration if multiple Generators are completed, and does not reset its duration.
Grim Embrace
Each time a Survivor is hooked, Grim Embrace grows in power and gains 25% of its progression.
- Each time that Survivor is subsequently hooked, Grim Embrace gains 12.5% of its progression.
Upon reaching 100% progression, Grim Embrace activates and the following effects are applied:
- The Entity blocks all Generators for 30/35/40 seconds.
- The auras of all Survivors are revealed to you for 5 seconds.
Hangman's Trick
When you are carrying a Survivor, the following effects are applied to you:
- Gain a loud noise notification whenever a Survivor is attempting to sabotage a hook.
- See the aura of all Survivors within 6/7/8 meters of a hook. This effect lingers for 5 seconds after the Survivor leaves its range or you hook the carried Survivor.
The following effects are also applied to hooks even while not carrying a Survivor:
- Reduces the speed of sabotage attempts by 25%.
- Hooks that are sabotaged or broken repair themselves 100% faster.
Iron Maiden
Survivors who enter inside of a Locker suffer from the following afflictions:
- Scream and reveal their location to you every 5/4/3 seconds for a duration of 4 seconds.
- Suffer from the Oblivious status effect while inside of a Locker.
Survivors that exit a Locker will then have their auras revealed to you for 5 seconds.
Note: This change would only apply if the locker search speed is increased by 50% for all Killers at a base level.
Monitor & Abuse
Your base Terror Radius is reduced by 8 meters and your field of view is increased by 6/8/10 degrees.
Whenever you enter a chase, the following effects are then applied:
- Your base Terror Radius is increased by 8 meters so long as you remain in the chase.
- Your movement speed is increased by 3% for 10 seconds after starting the chase.
Predator
Scratch marks left behind by Survivors last 3/4/5 seconds longer:
- When playing on outdoor maps, scratch marks will spawn moderately closer together.
- When playing on indoor maps, scratch marks will spawn considerably closer together.
Note: This change basically makes the ability more readable on both indoor and outdoor maps.
Shadowborn
When the Trial begins, Shadowborn activates. While Shadowborn is active, the following effects are applied to you:
- For the first 50/55/60 seconds of the Trial, you are granted the Undetectable status effect.
- For the entire duration of the Trial, your field of view is increased by 15 degrees.
Territorial Imperative
The aura of any Survivor entering the basement will be revealed to you for the duration of their stay in the basement, and an additional 3/4/5 seconds afterward.
- When a Survivor enters the basement while you are at least 16 meters away from its location, gain a loud noise notification.
These effects do not apply if you are currently inside of the basement.
Trail of Torment
Performing the damage generator action on a Generator activates Trail of Torment:
- The aura of the Generator is revealed to Survivors in Yellow.
When a Survivor interacts with the affected Generator, the secondary effects of Trail of Torment then apply:
- Gain the Undetectable status effect for 13/14/15 seconds.
- For each 1% of regression applied to that Generator, gain an additional 1 second of the Undetectable status effect. This effect stacks with instant and gradual regression perks.
While I appreciate the work done to so many of the perks in the game, I think we can admit that the original versions of these perks are absolutely bad or borderline unusable in the current game of Dead by Daylight, or otherwise too powerful in the case of a few of these.
Maybe these should be for whenever the next perk pass comes around. Imagine how much more intuitive these would be.
Your reworks suck and nerf most of these perks.
The dragon's grip idea however is something that makes sense and might actually be a good rework.
How would I do these perks better? Example :
Beast of Prey :
After injuring a healthy survivor your red stain is removed for 60 seconds (no cooldown).
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@brunolord20 said:
Please behaviour add more time to Feral Frenzy is almost impossible play with legion without pills , feral only can hit 2 people and always left one person to get a hit or at least buff him to let him hit same survivors i mean he hit one survivor after he second and he will can back to the first survivor again
Legion is kind of unfair now actually because they made his power extremely easy and rewarding to use to chain hits.
Before they buffed him it was very easy to "pre run" so he only got 1-2 hits per chain but now it is very easy to routinely chain 3 or more hits.
Overall he's just not a very good killer unless you use the pink button. Also they nerfed Bamboozle making him vault faster which is stupid (so I dont play him anymore).
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288239#Comment_3288239
First of all, High MMR does not really exist because the queue time takes priority over the balance of the game itself. Another problem is spawn points, when you don't have corrupt and all the survivors just spawn directly in front of gens what is gonna happen? Ofc they will start doing the gens... Loosing one gen in 40-50 seconds is still better than loosing 3 after 90 seconds because if they work together they are less efficient on doing that. Which is always better, if they spread out all across the map you cannot interrupt multiple people, you cannot snowball as easily so...
Your argument is highly dependent on the idea that survivors start apart. Many of the best players have suggested for a long time now that all survivors always spawn in the same place. That would potentially allow survivors to use an offering to make them not start together (change start with someone to - start away from everyone else).
High MMR does exist. The devs were very sneaky and essentially separated the "baddies" from the good players. The only way they play together is via SWF. Overall it kinda seems most people liked the game when there was no MMR. Every month you had a complete reset so you weren't locked into some kind of "eternal struggle" with tough matches.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288255#Comment_3288255
"So then it won't matter if we remove it. I'm glad you agree. You can't have your argument go both ways - lol."
It is a base mechanic that can be used for mindgames, why would you want to remove it??
"This is incorrect and it is telling that you don't understand this. Survivors have the ability via perfect positioning on blind loops to avoid a hit by standing in the correct place and waiting. Removing the red light would delete these safe zones."
Elaborate further? If you are basically right behind them and don't how your redlight, which makes them run further and not take the vault at the T wall and then you come around the corner you can hit them before they can reach the vault of the L wall... so what do you exactly mean?
"Overall the killer would be much less predictable which would raise your adrenaline levels while being chased to something that you might not have felt back since your first month as survivor."
Great, I always wanted my game to be a flip of a coin instead of proper action and reaction with some mindgames...
Let's look at the sequence of the discussion.
- You said you can just moonwalk.
- I said that doesn't work on most of the game tiles
- You said that doesn't matter and suddenly flip flopped. I called you out for flipping and then:
- You wanted to pull a reverse as if I changed my position when in fact I have the same position.
- You are the one who suddenly suggested the right light "isn't a big deal" but were adamant enough about not wanting it to be changed that you made a post to state your opinion against the idea.
The red light gives a ton of free information that should be turned into a perk. This would make the best survivors "lose one perk" or make them weaker in loops. It would not hurt low/middle skill players. That's exactly what DBD needs to make killers like Trapper viable (along with that you nerf Nurse/blight because they are too good and SWF too).
Using my quote against me doesn't really work. I said the red light gives a ton of free information : which is far better than most of the aura reading perks in terms of information. You're trying to say that it isn't a big deal so we shouldn't bother changing anything.
@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288245#Comment_3288245
That is a really stupid explanation... Yes survivor players of different skill levels loop the same killer for a different lenght of time... Artificially making better players worse to fit them in a box with worse players is a terrible idea. Punishing players that actually learned how to play the game just to make it easier to balance, this is really something. If you really wanted to standardize things how about we start with maps and take out some RNG of them? How is cowshed in the same game as shelter woods? How are some maps completely hit or miss when it comes to the map generation and others like cowshed or RPD or the Game are always broken in the same way. If the maps were less random and more equal strenght wise you could balance around that way better, without the need to punish better players.
-"That is a really stupid explanation... Yes survivor players of different skill levels loop the same killer for a different lenght of time... Artificially making better players worse to fit them in a box with worse players is a terrible idea"
Most games do this to the top 10% of players who are in some cases 50% to 100% better than everyone else. They level out the top possible skill so the best player are still the best but they make them only roughly 20-40% better than everyone else. World of Tanks is a perfect example (remember DBD follow the FTP model too). Good players turned their tanks in response to enemy barrel movements to make enemy shots bounce. It was very common for good players to only get hit about 20% of the time when in 1v1 combat with lesser skilled players. Meanwhile 80% of their shots would hurt the enemy. The result was that you regularly had "unicorn" players who killed 5 tanks per battle. This completely broke the game in terms of the business model because these highly skilled players actually could play for free. They were almost unbeatable by another unicorn and made the game really unfun for the average player.
Back to DBD : why should you ever play trapper IF you want to win games and complete challenges since Blight Nurse exist - Assuming you can play all three very well? There is a very real problem with DBD in that most of the killers have a skill cap that is surpassed by survivors who have more play time and are better players. Nurse and Blight are free of that restriction. If you want to flip a magic switch and turn that off post the idea. Blow my mind. Otherwise the very simple fix is : turn off the red light "for free" information and let people keep it if they think it is worth a perk slot.
Alternatively we could just make the rule : Every killer except the best two killers has no red stain as incentive to make people want to play those killers instead.
"If you really wanted to standardize things how about we start with maps and take out some RNG of them? How is cowshed in the same game as shelter woods? How are some maps completely hit or miss when it comes to the map generation and others like cowshed or RPD or the Game are always broken in the same way."
This is a coherent argument and a very good point (on which I agree). DBD should not have maps that are designed to be unfair to most of the killers unless we are also willing to have maps that are also unfair to survivors. Did you know for example that the original shelter woods had a 76% kill rate? Even in the era of "infinite windows" it was a death trap because there were very few pallets (almost all were unsafe) and there were very few windows to attempt a window infinite.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288236#Comment_3288236
I don't think it will be worth the effort
The kind of survivors killers struggle against are the kind that are used to killers hiding their red stain and don't rely on it. Removing it will do nothing for killers in those matchups
And the survivors that do rely on the killers red stain are the ones who most killers pubstomp anyway
It won't be fair to the killer cause it won't be helping them where they need help
Your argument makes zero sense.
Removing the red light vs bad players wont' do much - ok this is correct.
Removing the red light vs good players wont do anything. This is wrong because most skilled survivors depend on the light mechanic to know where to go in a chase. You would have to 50/50 guess every time. That's the problem with DBD in that you never really have to guess at most 50/50 events which is why survivors can loop for 40-60 seconds without getting hit which breaks the game at high levels of play.
There is a paradox in DBD that you're supposed to get caught making mistakes when the killer forces you into a 50/50 event. The red light prevents you from making the wrong choice. A perfect example is the killer shack. Everyone knows how to loop it because they can see the red light. Remove the gaps and remove the red light and suddenly that building becomes a blind 50/50 event.
The devs were laughing with their faces when they said : just do a mind game. This was because they knew that their game design didn't really allow for killers to perform a "fair" 50/50 mind game at most loops.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288236#Comment_3288236
Ok so let me get this straight... So first you say most loops don't even give you the option to hide the given information properly because you can be seen anyway, regardless of the red light and you still want it removed why? I mean the generic tiles that spawn on every map like TL Walls are great for hiding your light, same goes for many jungle gyms. By just removing the red light you remove a layer of depth of the game, something that is not required to learn anymore and the survivor now has to guess entirely if the killer will come aroudn the TL wall corner or not, before he at least needed to hide his light and trick the survivor by doing that.
I don't think the red light is training wheels... The red light really does not reach that far so I simply don't understand the issue you have with this mechanic.
Also it would also affect killers in a negative way, by showing or not showing your red light around a TL wall you can make the survivor vault or not vault when pulled off properly, by removing the option you removed an option for the killer to influence survivors behaviour, why would you want that?
"I don't think the red light is training wheels... The red light really does not reach that far so I simply don't understand the issue you have with this mechanic."
So then it won't matter if we remove it. I'm glad you agree. You can't have your argument go both ways - lol.
"Also it would also affect killers in a negative way, by showing or not showing your red light around a TL wall you can make the survivor vault or not vault when pulled off properly, by removing the option you removed an option for the killer to influence survivors behaviour, why would you want that?"
This is incorrect and it is telling that you don't understand this. Survivors have the ability via perfect positioning on blind loops to avoid a hit by standing in the correct place and waiting. Removing the red light would delete these safe zones.
You know how a Huntress can zone you at a T/L? Well now all killers would be able to do that because you dont have omniscience about where they are coming from.
Overall the killer would be much less predictable which would raise your adrenaline levels while being chased to something that you might not have felt back since your first month as survivor.
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Remember how we had shards back in the day? Well those were kinda cool as it let you try out a killer like freddy without owning them.
I bought artist for shards during the last 50% sale and I hate her. I was never intending to play her but it was just cheaper to buy her perks that way. Unfortunately now I get her daily mission as killer which I am forced to skip.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288220#Comment_3288220
Why would we start making basekit mechanics into perks? the red light is fine as it is... No need to do anything there.
As a thought experiment consider what would happen if there were no red light. What would happen? Which part of the player base would be most affected by it?
The best players would lose the ability to loop as well as they do now and would probably lose 20 or seconds of chase time. The bad players would still loop poorly but be caught a few seconds faster.
What would that do to the game? It would allow you to "standardize" chase time. The game is a complete mess in terms of balance because some people can loop for a minute and some people can loop for 20 seconds before getting hit. Gens are however standardized. The lack of chase standardization is one of the things that holds this game back.
Why would that matter? It would allow you to fine balance chases because you know the best players can only loop for X time. If you still don't understand why this would be good for the game then you need to "sit out".
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288217#Comment_3288217
60 seconds of blocked gen is really rough dude ^^
Being able to complete your first generator in 40-50 seconds is also "really rough dude".
It's not fun to play high MMR and lose 3 gens in the first chase. Watch your favorite killer streamer and you will see this all the time when they play very skilled/efficient survivors playing in a SWF.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Hours are not a reprisentative of skill
Punishing somebody for playing your game a lot doesn't seem like a good idea
So if it goes it should go completely and that would be harder for newer players who already have it rough against killers and barely make a difference against experienced players as they go against killer who know how to hide their red stain
So pass for me, i think it would do more harm then good
"like you can already hide your red stain by moonwalking"
Most loops have no way to hide the information either because the killer is too tall or because the loop has nowhere you can hide the light. Show me on an autohaven tile set where you can do it. Ok how about corn maps? Nope.
But WHY should the killer need to do an extra step and hide their light? As an observer looking at the game for the first time it makes DBD look like you're watching a Scooby Doo chase scene montage.
Seeing the red light is a level of free information that is on the level with :aura reading.
@Sonzaishinai said:
Hours are not a reprisentative of skill
Punishing somebody for playing your game a lot doesn't seem like a good idea
So if it goes it should go completely and that would be harder for newer players who already have it rough against killers and barely make a difference against experienced players as they go against killer who know how to hide their red stain
So pass for me, i think it would do more harm then good
-"Punishing somebody for playing your game a lot doesn't seem like a good idea"
Do you understand the concept of training wheels? The red light mechanic is 100% a hand holding aspect of the game that should "go away" with the option to keep it on - if you still need it.
Looping as a survivor is mostly a joke because you always have this gleaming red light ( that some player abuse but I'm not allowed to elaborate due to moderation) to tell you exactly what to do.
-"So if it goes it should go completely and that would be harder for newer players who already have it rough against killers and barely make a difference against experienced players as they go against killer who know how to hide their red stain"
Low level players dont understand what it means to be that close to the killer nor do they look behind them when looping or throwing pallets.
Again I say: Keep the red light as an option that is always available as a generic level three perk. If you still need the training wheels red light perk bring it - but in so doing you give up a perk slot forever.
That would be fair to the killer.
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@KerJuice said:
I’m wondering if it’s time for it to go? Seeing how advanced our player base is going into 2023, it may be no longer needed. Instead of nerfing/buffing perks, this could be the buff killers need to push the kill rate up to the devs desired number (65% was it?). Mind games at pallets/windows will be tougher for survivors.
I think at the very least this should be experimented within a PTB, like the removal of Bloodlust.
Now I definitely could see an argument for this being too tough on new players. Maybe if a player has less than “X” amount of hours played then they get the benefit of seeing the red stain, and everyone above “X” amount of hours does not.
What are your thoughts? Keep it or remove it?
Mclean who was one of the main game designers (who is no longer with the project) got extremely pissed off whenever anyone mentioned removing the red light.
A very simple fix would be to remove it and allow survivors to "get it back" with a perk. This would mean you must use a perk slot to have the information.
@roundpitt said:
The Red Stain does nothing other than make the game more tedious at high levels of play. Moon walking isn't really fun. Nor is looking down around corners to fake out survivors.
What you mean is: the game works at low levels of play but not high levels because the red light exists.
Another simple fix would be : After hitting MMR rating of 'X' for the first time you don't ever see the red light again.
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@MiraxGames said:
Idk if this is the right place for suggestions but hear me out, if survivors are getting some perks added to their base kit, especially if the anti slug patch goes live, I feel like it would benefit both sides if BBQ and Chili was added to killer base kit.
-killers would feel more awarded with getting hooks cause after every hook you would see auras of survivors outside a specific meter.
-it would help new players/killer understand the game better so they can get an idea where survivors usually are.
-its not a guarantee obviously, but I think in a way it would help tunneling/camping. I feel like a lot of killers especially newer killers that think camping is the best option because they would rather wait for the survivors to come to them versus trying to waste time to find another survivor so they stay in places like near the hook where they know where survivors are going to be. But if they get a hook and can see auras of the next survivors they can have a general idea of where to go for their next target which would motivate them more to leave hook or to not tunnel.
I don't know that's just my thoughts, I play both sides so I know how annoying camping and tunneling can be but I also know how annoying it can be to go against really good survivors who know how to hide and juke and survivors get base kit perks and killers don't. So this is just an idea if the devs start adding in more base kit perks and want something for killer that's useful but not super OP.
Thanks for reading! Lemme know your thoughts! :)
The correct perk to add to killer base kit is : Deadlock.
And if the killer takes the perk Deadlock then extend the effect by 30 seconds.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286740#Comment_3286740
I watch him. And it's always about map balance+items. He intentionally nerfs himself to brown or yellow addons and then gets frustrated he lost against 4 purple medkits or 4 BNP's. Like should the game really be balanced so that killer can win perkless and addonless against any swf tryharding as much as possible?
Because if you are good and take full meta on killer, you can win 530+ times in a row.
Also about hours. Sweh is one of the best (he belongs to the group) survivors, yet doesn't have that many hours. Hours alone does not say full picture. They are just one indicator
"-He intentionally nerfs himself to brown or yellow addons and then gets frustrated he lost against 4 purple medkits or 4 BNP's."
Actually Otz changed his rules about addons for streaks because he was tired of exactly those things.
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286740#Comment_3286740
I watch him. And it's always about map balance+items. He intentionally nerfs himself to brown or yellow addons and then gets frustrated he lost against 4 purple medkits or 4 BNP's. Like should the game really be balanced so that killer can win perkless and addonless against any swf tryharding as much as possible?
Because if you are good and take full meta on killer, you can win 530+ times in a row.
Also about hours. Sweh is one of the best (he belongs to the group) survivors, yet doesn't have that many hours. Hours alone does not say full picture. They are just one indicator
Oh really?
Show me the 530 win streak with Pig. CMWinter's best was around 140 games before MMR. He's still a great player but he can get floored by tournament teams just as often as he gets the 4k that becomes a spicy TY video.
Better yet show me the 100 win streak with Doctor. Find me some killer main who is "tournament level" who beats tournament teams (like the ones I linked you of Hens in the other thread). That doesn't exist. Nor for Michael Myers, Trapper, Clown, and almost the entire DBD roster.
You're talking about streaks with two killers while all the rest are a complete joke by comparison. Let us remember that Blight is scheduled to lose Hug tech whenever the devs get around to it. That will reduce him down in power to A tier but when that rework happens he will probably have several addons nerfed as both Nurse/Blight have some of the highest % based power modifiers in the game - which is absurd.
With the current state of the C and D tier killers we have in DBD there is no "world's best doctor". It's about as relevant as measuring the relative footspeed of humans vs animals. Obviously Nurse would be the Tiger Beetle and blight can be the Cheetah for now. Doctor is the lowly human by comparison - if only he could run at 50x his body length per second.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286735#Comment_3286735
This is not his tournament. Watch the video. And again - this is more then just I or some streamer thinks (btw otz also thinks hard facecamp with Bubba is lesser evil fun wise then just stream snipe someone's game - should speak volumes about his bias. And he is still very surv sided compared to true). This is best teams gameplay showing balance of the game. Before one patch that everyone but you agrees helped killers.
Showing this video is more proof then your examples. That's also the reason why I didn't even bother with explaining that Ayrun has actually more hours played on killer then survivor or that Hens would actually not outright say the game is surv sided. It's beside the point. Video is much better proof.
-"btw otz also thinks hard facecamp with Bubba is lesser evil fun wise then just stream snipe someone's game"
I didn't ask for Otz's opinion on stream sniping. But you should be aware he added a random delay within the last week to his streams to prevent people from stream sniping him. And he covers the lobby so it's even harder to tell. So tell me again that stream sniping is a non issue of no concern to Otz even though he gets sniped all the time. He literally mentioned it on today's stream that he specifically did not have "I am playing killer xyz attempting a streak" so that he would not get stream sniped.
Stream sniping isn't against the rules so it's a non issue. As a survivor I feel SWF is an unethical advantage because the game clearly isn't balanced around it. As a killer I will use any allowed means of winning at my disposal. I counter SWF when possible by listening to a live streamer. Try it with a group of your friends. Play one game with their voice coms muted and have them play the next game but undeafen yourself and listen to their coms the next game. It's a night and day difference that ultimately makes the game not fair for 95% of the killer roster.
-"Showing this video is more proof then your examples"
Here are your examples.
Hens and his team destroying a nurse :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zwHens and his team vs a 504 win streak nurse over a set of private matches:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP4e5uCoDFQHens accused of cheating vs 4 man swf playing as Nurse (timestamp is 4:15)
https://youtu.be/ZEzpkirSaNc?t=255Why link these videos? They go to show that Nurse can counter a SWF or the SWF can counter her. SWF is broken. Nurse is broken (blight too). Nerf all of these things to make DBD a better game.
"-I didn't even bother with explaining that Ayrun has actually more hours played on killer then survivor"
So you know when Otz Dowsey and JRM play their hardcore survivor challenge Dowsey and Otz call out the addons the killer uses and then the two survivor mains just say whatever - because they don't know what those call outs mean. That's nearly an almost exact quote from Ayrun in one of the YT clips from the series.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286272#Comment_3286272
once you get above certain skill level, bully squads no longer exists. Meaning bully squads will always be part of the game, because there will always be considerably newer players then other players. Deleting every bully squad would mean that 5K+ hrs people would not be able to make loops around 5hrs player. That's just ridiculous. That would mean killers would get 100% kill rate if killer has at least 1/10th of skill weakest survivor has.
Right now if you have even slightly same skill as those survivors, then they will absolutely fail to bully you - because it would result in many free hits and very possibly 4 slugged survivors on the ground.
The only real counter to this is, that devs will gradually remove toxicity from the game. I don't know how you want to prevent killer nodding at survivor after down or hitting him on hook, but sure that would go the same direction as actually removing bully squads
-"once you get above certain skill level, bully squads no longer exists."
And that's why 99% of DBD tournaments use the rule set where you can't repeat characters, items or perks (except sometimes BT is allowed to be copied)?
Otz is a 9k hour player and every now and then he gets completely floored by survivors with far fewer hours. That throws your ideas right out the window. You won't see those games on YT obviously and have to watch his channel to see them.
Bully squads exist because SWF can coordinate perks and items in an unfair way. Consider the perk Knock out for a moment. This perk is essentially useless vs a SWF. Is that fair to the killer that you invalidate one of his perks because you are playing in a SWF? Imagine if DBD accessed your PC so that if you were playing in a SWF and you were talking then your aura would appear to the killer for 5 seconds. Would that be fair compensation to the killer for playing in a SWF?
I don't think anyone wants or is asking for that but it goes to show that you're thinking about the situation only from one point of view : the survivor having fun.
Ask yourself why did the 6.0 patch happen? Do you want to put your head in the sand and declare that it was in no way related to the fact that prior to the 6.0 patch killer queues were nearly instantaneous from noon to 5 am in my region and many others? Do you want to just ignore the data pulled from the servers where we had queue data from the DBD servers where there were sometimes as many as 6000 survivors in a queue with only 45 or fewer killers?
The truth is that for the majority of the lifetime of DBD playing killer has not been a fun/enjoyable experience.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286453#Comment_3286453
This was before patch 6.1. patch 6.1 without a doubt helped killers. Now we Also have soloQ which is inherently weaker.
The 6.0 patch before survivors got 10 seconds of borrowed time was pretty fair to killers with regard to solo queue but it actually made killers weaker against SWF.
The changes to Pop specifically crippled most killers vs SWF. Pop was giving me on average 6-9 instances of massive gen regression per game. Against SWF now they just call out if you chase them off a gen you kicked with Brine and they hyperfocus it. In the past I was regularly kicking a gen mid chase and leaving a survivor working on it. That does not work with overcharge or CoB.
named six big streamers who play both sides and you named one. Scott also stopped playing his main killer so that's not a good example as he had a mini rage quit. He's also a fog whisperer lackey and not allowed to criticize the developers.
This isn't really relevant to the topic that some of the killers that need mega buffs have been nerfed by the vault changes. I wouldn't bother to reply to you except that in so doing I also bump this thread for further attention.
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@Tamayo2001 said:
What confuses me about this nerf is that Wesker's perk, Superior anatomy, was literally tailored to enhance his Virulent bound vault ability.
In some way, a killer's perks relate to their power, or their lore as far as I know. Like, I understand Wesker is a superhuman but how was that perk NOT specifically made to synergize with virulent bound? There is no way it was just a coincidence that BHVR introduced a new window / pallet vaulting killer that just happens to come with a perk that increases vaulting speed.
That would be like introducing a new killer who uses lockers for their resources like Huntress and Trickster, introducing a new perk that for them that specifically aims to increase locker animation speeds, then disabling the potential stackable bonus speed to refilling their resources, and only applying it to searching lockers for survivors.
Whether or not Myers and Wraith have retained the ability to stack vaulting speed bonuses, it is just really dumb for it to not apply to "special vaults", even more so when like I said, Superior anatomy was most likely made with Virulent bound vaults in mind. Even if it wasn't, perk synergies that play into a specific killer power actions have never been an issue for players.
It's a stealth nerf pure and simple.
The change was made to dial back Wesker. He's not the newest DLC so it's time to nerf the flavor of the month. This is standard business as usual for free to play games (which dbd tries to duplicate despite not being free).
Billy used to be an S tier killer slightly below Nurse. He was nerfed at first by proxy. Maps were designed so that he could not chainsaw from point A to point B without hitting obstacles. And still his kit was eventually obliterated.
They should have just nerfed Wesker. Leave MM/Legion alone as those two killers need all the help they can get.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286273#Comment_3286273
Have you tried to ask Supaalf what he thinks about current nurse? Have you tried to ask Ayrun what he thinks about MDR spirit? Have you even tried to speak to anyone and not just say something that makes 0 sense?
-Nobody who streams dbd professionally as their primary means of income and plays both survivor/killer well agrees with you.
Next time read the entire statement.
Ayrun is a survivor main. He is a perfect example of someone who only sees one side of the issue. Look at all the people who play both sides well. Where do they think the game is balanced?
Otz - survivor sided
Truetalent - survivor sided
Hens - Survivor sided
Dowsey - survivor sided
Hexy - survivor sided
Bronx - survivor sided
Do yourself a favor. Go watch Hens on Youtube. You can find a game where he plays a near perfect game as Nurse and the 4 man SWF team he was playing accused him of cheating. You can also find a video of his 4 man SWF destroying a comp nurse with high level coordinated play (including lots of clock location call outs).
The existence of those two videos tells me Nurse is "ok" because it is possible to play against it and win.
Thought Experiment:
Take a comp team and put them against any comp killer through all the maps. Do this for each killer except nurse and blight. Then do the same thing again with nurse and blight. What would such an experiment tell us? Nurse and Blight are on a different level and all the rest are vastly inferior. Fundamentally speaking Nurse and Blight don't have "bad maps" in the same way all the other killers do. That is inherently unfair from a design perspective.
Now dial it back. Remove the "only the top 1% aspect". Take a good group of SWF who all understand the game and run the same experiment vs a seasoned killer. Blight and Nurse will dominate compared to the rest. Now repeat the experiment again and instead of SWF and pre planning make the players random. Take away voice coms and see what happens. Kill rates will rise and there will be more hooks; gens overall will take much longer.
It's unthinkable that people are actually going to argue that SWF is fine". I will be the first person in line to ask for Blight/Nurse nerfs after we nerf SWF. We can't ever have a balanced game as long as two killers are S tier and everything else ranges from D to A tier. We also can't have a balanced game when you can play with voice coms and have the exact same MMR as people playing alone.
Thinking about the big Picture - SWF would be a lot more fair if they only played against Nurse/Blight players of their skill level (they would only play vs other killers who "opted in"). Obviously that wouldn't work with the game population. But imagine for a moment if every person linked in a SWF raised linked that player's MMR by 400 points. Further Imagine if a 3 or 4 man squad modified each player by 600 or 800 points respectively. That might be fair for the game we have.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284814#Comment_3284814
And still I win against them more often then not. Makes you wonder which side is actually OP. It's so bad now, I practically stoped playing solo and even play killer much more then SWF. Because it's not fun to loose 5+ games in a row (even on SWF). It's more fun to just relax and have the game handed to you (or at least see that you were bad in that chase and could do better to win it next time).
Anyway - you admiting to streamsniping is disgusting in itself
Not Queen declared years ago that Stream sniping was allowed and would not be punished. It goes both ways as many survivors stream snipe killers like Otz when he is trying to do a streak.
I do not watch people I play against, I just listen to their coms. This counteracts the cheat like advantage that SWF provides. Adding a 30 second delay would make that pointless but then they cant interact with their audience.
-"admiting to streamsniping is disgusting in itself"
It's one of the few ways to balance the advantage of SWF. You're probably one of those people that say : SWF balances out how OP all the killers are.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284549#Comment_3284549
Killers already win most of the time. Do you really want to limit all and any option survivor has? Do you want killers to be able to mindlessly just run at survivor knowing he will catch him no matter what? 0 mindgames and still 100% success rate? Would that even be fun for you? Killer is already much easier then survivor. Why make it mindlessly easy? Without even perk tax.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284775#Comment_3284775
You got it wrong. As of right now killer and 4-man SWF are equal. If you are only interested in playing in solo, it means you want to win every single time. Even best survivor mains escape at around 50% playing as much for escapes (including most selfish playstyles possible in game when it suits them). On the other hand - these survivor mains (so not like supaalf) can go play killer and win virtually every single game they want to win. Best SWF squads can give them hard time, but if they did not come prepared specifically for this ocasion, they will loose.
SWF and killers are leveled. Wanting to only play against solo means you want to always just win (it's like wanting to have subtle cheats for every game). It's a multiplayer game. You are a problem with your attitude
-"You got it wrong. As of right now killer and 4-man SWF are equal"
Nobody who streams dbd professionally as their primary means of income and plays both survivor/killer well agrees with you.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284820#Comment_3284820
You cannot make playing with your friends punitive. Absolutely ridiculous.
Balanced and punitive mean different things.
Preventing bullying via SWF would make the game more enjoyable for everyone. There are plenty of exhaustion perks, second chance perks and it would create more strategy to require you to not be able to stack multiple copies of the same perks/items.
Punitive would be : you are playing in a swf therefore every linked person increases gen/totem/healing/etc times by 20%.
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@Coordi said:
Absolutely, we receive a lot of valuable and important feedback here. Some scenarios make it easier to implement and communicate, like after a PTB. Other changes and feedback go through a long process of vetting, designing, and testing, and this process can take a long time! We certainly don't want to announce things too early and it not work out; that will just feel like a bait and switch. I am looking forward to, and hope you are too, all of the things currently in the pipeline and in development.
If that's true then why haven't you changed SWF to have less of an advantage?
One simple rule change could make SWF still be fun to play but limited so that solo queue is not an equal or perhaps in some ways "better"
Limit SWF with two simple rules:
- No character, item, perk or offering repeats.
- Once the group queues for a game their loadouts become locked but they can change their costume.
Add a UI interface that shows all the perks the other characters are using in real time so you can better strategize with your team.
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I encourage everyone to play killer and look at the profiles of people in your lobby. FInd a 4 man swf who has one member live streaming and listen to their coms. A team with good communication will tell you everything you need to know so much that it feels like cheating when you listen to their coms.
I played a game once where the gates were powered but not open and I had two survivors slugged, one hooked and I was chasing the last survivor. I was listening to the stream of a high end SWF.
The dwight on the team announces he has unbreakable so I immediately turn back and pick him up and hook him. While that happens one survivor is rescued.
I started to pick up Meg who is close to the hooked survivor and she tells me she has DS so I wait out the timer and pick her up safely.
The last two survivors announce where they are healing so I rush over them and down one of them. The last survivor is unable to make the save before getting hit twice so the game is lost (after I chase the last survivor before they can raise anyone else).
If this example of using their voice coms against them sounds like cheating to you then I will ask what does it feel like to be on the receiving end of a SWF team constantly talking?
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@RoastedGarlic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284303#Comment_3284303
SWF are hardly a problem, 1 out of 10 games maybe if that. You can't nerf SWF without nerfing Soloq and soloq needs buffs not nerfs. So not to burst your bubble but you need to figure out what you can do to improve as a killer, record your games and watch them back. Learn from your mistakes.
Solo queue is at a disadvantage because SWF exists. Stop with this rhetoric everyone says that SWF is not "bad" for the killer's gameplay. Given a choice of 4 random players with no coms or coordination the killer or SWF the killer will have a better more balanced game vs the 4 random players. You need to realize the killer always plays solo with no help. Killer solo queue is not fun when you are forced to play vs SWF.
Imagine a tournament situation with only strong players where there are two rounds of three games each. In the first round the 16 players all play on their teams. In the second round the teams are all scrambled so that nobody is playing with anyone from their team and they are denied voice communication/perk coordination. You are incorrect if you believe that the second round performance will be superior to the first round performance.
Regular players are not tournament teams but you need to realize that a single voice communication can save 20-40 seconds.That event can happen multiple times per game and comes at zero cost to the SWF team. Imagine what would happen next patch if this appeared in the patch notes : SWF teams are now penalized 20-40 seconds multiple times per game when repairing generators.
SWF can be fairly nerfed with one simple new rule : Inside a SWF there can be no repeats of characters, items, perks or offerings. When the group queues their loadout becomes locked and nothing can change. This would give SWF and advantage option with voice coms but takes away the ability to have multiple copies of items. This in turn would prevent bullying. There is a reason that comp play is generally designed with that rule in mind (the game is unfair otherwise). Add a UI element so that you can see the perks of all players inside a SWF so you know which perks are already taken.
@RoastedGarlic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284303#Comment_3284303
SWF are hardly a problem, 1 out of 10 games maybe if that. You can't nerf SWF without nerfing Soloq and soloq needs buffs not nerfs. So not to burst your bubble but you need to figure out what you can do to improve as a killer, record your games and watch them back. Learn from your mistakes.
There is no streamer I can watch who plays Nemesis better than I do as far as I am aware. I watch Otz and Truetalent play Nemesis and I see where they make mistakes that I would not make when they play (to be fair their mind games and camera movement around certain terrain is better but that is a reflection that I have not played killer for 7-9k hours). My whip attacks around obstacles are much cleaner and I have far more hits that make people say : that should not have hit (because I listen to streamers I play against who are streaming live). I know the answer to the question when they say : why didn't that tentacle attack hit? I do record my games; You assume I am some pleb who struggles with medium range MMR players. No. I struggle vs players who on average have 6000-10000 hours when I play against them. I regularly get people who are from tournament teams in my lobby (at least thats what their profiles say- they could be impersonators).
After a certain skill level in DBD the solution to getting better at killer is : play a stronger killer. You're more than free to prove me wrong here. Let's use a highly skilled streamer as an example : Hens. He occasionally plays against comp teams in his lobby. About a month or so ago I saw a video form him where he had a near perfect game against a 4 man swf on the Crow map (so much so they accused him of cheating).
You will be called a fool if you think for a moment that he would have won that game if he had been playing Doctor. Nobody cares who The best Doctor player is in the entire world because a mediocre Blight will have much cleaner and easier wins.
There are two killers in the game that can handle SWF teams on every map at every skill level. Those killers are Nurse and Blight. You are deluding yourself if you disagree. The other way of saying this is : SWF is fair when they play against Nurse/Blight (which means SWF is unfair to all other match ups).
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@Devil_hit11 said:
The only perk that was really used was bamboozle. Fire-up is a weak perk with garbage numbers for pallet break and vault speed. Superior anatomy is plagued with cooldowns and survivor activation conditions.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283495#Comment_3283495
What is confusing? I don't see much more perk variety post patch for killer compare to pre-patch. Most of the killer perk are still low impact. old gen defence was weakened and new generator defence took its place because barely anything for killer is worth running.
Fire up was actually a good perk on MM. You get lots of pallet pre drops - so kicking faster is good. The faster pick up speed messed with people for the blind (which in all fairness was nerfed too /sigh). The increased vault speed was helpful when in T3 as it could make you gain time for vaulting. Also it is very hard for 99% of survivor mains to recognize that you are using it (knowledge is power in the right hands). They assume brutal because faster kick speed nearly 100% of the time (sometimes they assume lightborn b/c missed blind on pickup).
Bamboozle is definitely better than Fire up overall but the perk actually was useful on Michael as the three things it did were very useful. Nearly instant vaults when in T3 with Bam+ FU were crazy fast.
Superior anatomy was grossly inferior on MM to Bamboozle. But it's very common for us to have two perks that do almost the same thing with slight differences. BBQ and thrilling tremors essentially give you roughly the same information at slightly different time intervals.
@RoastedGarlic said:
Yeah this needs to be reverted. they keep changing things like this, pallets/doors and blast mine etc. These are things no one wants or asks to be changed and yet they refuse to make soloq better, they refuse to touch nurse things the community is dying too see happen. I could go on but I won't.
BHVR this isn't cool stop it. Stop ruining things that are fun and enjoyable that no one has ever complained about.
The real problem with this nerf is that it nerfs two killers who are near the bottom of the pack.
Also not to burst your bubble and go off topic but Nurse should not really be adjusted unless we nerf SWF too.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283754#Comment_3283754
I'm just saying he can be playable without using his most broken addons.
You can play any killer with no perks/ addons in low/mid MMR if you are good at the game.
When you are only playing against players with 6-10k hours that are playing in 2-4 man swfs exclusively then 95% of the killer roster becomes pointless.
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The new map had too many pallets. Some of the old ones like the chapel have too many vaults making it a joke to loop
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283703#Comment_3283703
I have a build that's pretty consistent on him but he requires a certain build with certain addons.
And no i'm not talking about tombstone or the iridescent infinite t3 addon.
Then you're not playing him correctly. Those are the only addons that make him worth playing. With the vault changes he is not playable anymore because you lose half of the draw of Bamboozle.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283730#Comment_3283730
40 sec of advantage on a single activation with low cd that can be applied to multiple gens, is not something you can leave to uncertainty.
It is obvious that if eruption didnt have such a crippiling effect on activation, people would not bother with it being uncounterable.
The real problem is they are trying to get people to buy Nemesis. They nerfed clowns perk so they buffed a perk locked behind DLC. Get the new pay to win perk with nemesis : only $12.99
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@greed23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283640#Comment_3283640
Honestly, if killer add-ons invalidate vault speed perks, then medkit add-ons should invalidate healing speed perks
and toolboxes with with gen repair perks
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@BenSanderson55 said:
With pain res I can let go of gen last second and not scream or bring sabotage and try to prevent scourge hooks.
Surge i can try to go down away from gens or just jump right back on gen.
Pop not really used anymore, just get back on gen
Overcharge do the skill check
Call of brine just touch the gen
Ruin cleanse the hex or just power through it
etc
Eruption I have no idea exactly when someone will go down. Even if i know the killer kicked the gen im on is it efficient to just wait for an unknown amount of time until someone is downed? Not really thats like making myself incapacitated. So basically forced to lose 30 sec of gen progress on every proc of perk and essentially cant play the game for that time period.
The only kind of counter i can think off is being swf on comms you just tell your teammate to touch gen. This is not a viable counter for solo or anybody not on comms, especially since DBD doesnt have in game comms.
Perhaps theres some counterplay im not aware of, enlighten me please?
Once upon a time DBD was built on an idea that you didn't have an omniscient level of knowledge of what to do at any given moment. Should you hide? Should you stay and work on the generator? Should you go for the save?
Uncertainty when it was built into the game (before SWF was an option) made the game fair.
The counterplay to eruption is that gens can be completed in as little as 40 seconds. Nerf minimum gen time to a mind blowing 60 seconds and then let's talk about eruption.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283662#Comment_3283662
I perfectly understand the implications. I'm not afraid of tunnelling nor of camping. I just chose to adapt to my opponents (same when I play survivor). Tunnelling may be efficient but it's not the most interesting play (a bit like gen-rushing, gens-before-friends, ...). However, I try to only use tunnelling to tip the scales when required.
That base kit change seems like an idea in the right direction.
Most survivors get mad when they rush generators first and then someone gets tunneled. Gens before friends means tunneling is the only viable response. If the survivors rush their objective they have no room to be upset if the killer does the same.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Bar the 180-second gen suggestion, people, gens do need to take longer.
The better solution is so make it so that perks and items cannot save you more than 10 seconds on a single generator. In other words if your toobox gave 1% repair speed per second and you had 40 seconds of charge then you could not use it anymore after 10 seconds of working on a generator.
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The kinght was supposed to channel his power to give the bot a path, but that's dumb and everyone was just tapping the power to instantly drop it for better effect.
Therefore the devs nerfed the minimum channel time.
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@RaSavage42 said:
So... nerfing Gen regression perks is buffing Gen rush???
And what about Corrupt, DMS, Thrilling Tremors and Deadlock???
Dying Light and Thanatophobia???
It's more like Survivors realizing that they are more efficient on Gens rather then completing a Gen then taking a lap around the map... so on and so forth
So no matter what happens with regression perks... it's more like 4V1 being the game
Before 6.0 with pop on average I was getting 6-9 kicks per game. Thats two to three minutes of extra time required for the survivors to win. That nerf and a number of others allows survivors to gen rush.
Survivors got free BT as a base kit perk. What did killers get? They got 1/4th of a perk - two free stacks of borrowed time.
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@Remedicist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283688#Comment_3283688
That vault speed change needs to be reverted. Not sure why they would remove perk-power synergy and remove perk diversity like that. If people have no reason to use other perks due to the lack of synergy, they will just continue use the same meta gen slowdown perks that benefit them all the time.
No it's worse than that. If the devs nerf the low/middle tier killers they will just eventually only play Blight/Nurse becuase that is the only option when they get to high MMR.
That is the nightmare scenario that survivors don't want but push the game towards.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283673#Comment_3283673
I mean yeah,but even Myers can be more oppresive than Knight,he has nothing going for him,except if he camps and survivors make a lot of mistakes.
He has the worst and clunkiest power in the game,even Twins power is more reliable,if you wanna break a pallet with The Knight,you need to waste time getting in the position that works,make the path,that takes a few seconds you wasted just as much time as kicking the pallet yourself.
I hate how clunky his power is,and he's also weak asf,I wont play him until they make his power work anywhere on the map like it should.
Otz loves to say MM is the worst killer but he makes that claim based on "no addons". Normally I would be ready to show you in a game vs your SWF why he isn't but they just stealth nerfed him by not letting him benefit from bamboozle or fire up vault speed with the last patch.
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SWF could be very easily be changed with one simple rule to make the game more fair for solo players:
No character, perk, item or offering repeats in a SWF. Once a SWF has queued up for a match you may not change any of those aspects but you can still change your costume.
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@Carmina_is_cute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282864#Comment_3282864
Legion does not perform fine what so ever. An M1 killer with a power that can only ignore one health state and not help end chases quick? At least Trapper has basement and Sadako has condemned. Legion have nothing to fall back on.
To make matters worse : Legion, Michael and Wesker all just got nerfed by the stealth patch change in 6.4 that makes any killer with a "vault power speed adjustment" unable to benefit from the vault speed granted by Bamboozle, Fire UP or Superior Anatomy.
@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283203#Comment_3283203
I've never understood why Pinhead was designed to break his own chains, especially considering he literally phases through windows. 🤦 As far as I know, Pinhead is the only killer that can sandbag their own power.
Trapper can step in his traps and Nemesis zombies get in your way all the time (they could have just been made no clip for him). I'm sure there are more if I stopped and thought about it.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283657#Comment_3283657
Not really,you can do good with other killers because you can rely on their power,The Knight power is way too slow and situational to work and rely on to even get fast downs,he cant even get that despite having no mobility at all on the map to protect gens
-"Not really,you can do good with other killers because you can rely on their power"
You probably can rely on their power because you're playing at low MMR. Nobody picks Michael Myers when they get to 2000 MMR because it's not going to be a fun game even if you can win.
As survivor skill/efficiency increases the need to play Blight/Nurse to keep the game balanced also increases. There is no means by which you can play a weak killer such as Legion and hope to achieve with perfect play what a Blight or Nurse could accomplish with a merely average performance. The entity's left hand is a very accomplished Trapper main but there is no way he could hope to compete with Hens playing nurse (who is probably not the best nurse but who is a very accomplished player overall that has demonstrated a near perfect game against comp players in a random game).
Likewise if we choose a strong killer main streamer at random and have them pick a killer, map and addon loadout there is no method by which you could have two similar tournament level teams compete where one team must use no perks and the other team gets a full perk/item loadout.
The devs have stated on multiple occasions they prefer DBD to be an unbalanced game and have no desire to change it. Many people have questioned if they have a deep enough understanding of their own game to balance things if they wanted to.
Most people will say : well the game is fine if you're not playing at high MMR. That's fine if you reset my MMR every month (like we had for 5+ years).
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@drsoontm said:
Of course it's sometimes on the survivor.
The number of times a survivor tried to body-block after an unhook, or jumped straight on a gen instead of healing (and then was found by the killer) is staggering.
As far as I'm concerned, I punish these moves religiously.
Tunneling is largely on the game design. What do you get for hooking three survivors one time? You get nothing. What do you get for hooking one survivor three times? Gen speeds are permanently reduced by 25% of their potential maximum.
Imagine one simple base kit change: If you hook a survivor that was not the last survivor hooked then all survivor actions (healing, generators, totems, doors, etc) are reduced by 4% per hook.
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@Adaez said:
Genrush meta absolutely destroys The Knight
I have to bring the same perks just to do decent,and what sucks the most,you barely get any bps on him because you dont have time to get enough hook stages by the time survivors rush all gens and escape.
I have to run perks like corrupt and letha pursuer instead of gen regression perks,because if I dont,by the time you get a single down half the generators are done.
He actually has worse chase and map pressure than killer like Clown or Wraith.
He cant end chases fast,he has no map mobility,his guards can be easily dodged if you dont know exactly where a survivor is,so you need to bring a lot of tracking perks.
He's incredibly weak on big maps and decent on small maps.
I dont think this killer is above C tier at least in the current meta.
-"Genrush meta absolutely destroys every killer that isn't Nurse/Blight"
Fixed your title premise.
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@greed23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283613#Comment_3283613
Most recent patch, but it's not in the patch notes. Tatariu made a bug report on it, and apparently they confirmed it was intentional.
That makes Legion and MM not really worth playing anymore. Both of those killers were elevated to a usable position with Bamboozle affecting their power.
Why dont we see this same treatment for survivors? Imagine if you could never have more than 10% bonuses to a repair or heal action.
Moreover not putting the changes in the patch notes is very dirty. Why not say you're changing how those perks work unless you hope no one notices?
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@smexxyhexxy said:
How do you expect solo queue players (who are most of the playerbase) to know when their teammate is about to get downed? The perk has no counterplay, unlike pain resonance.
This perk not just stops survivors from doing ANYTHING for 30 seconds, it also makes the generator regress additionally.
It’s way too overturned and problematic, how would you change it?
Let's start the conversation in a far more simple way: Gen speed completion times and the killer's base regression are completely out of synch. The killer should need to feel they need to bring more than one regression perk and have a fun game that is not over in 5 minutes.
Medkits and toolboxes needed to be changed when they did the 6.0 converssion so that no item/perk has more than a 10% effect on gen speeds. Medkits should probably all be at "self care" speeds but better kits have more charges. Toolboxes should probably be changed to sabotage only unless you have addons that let you use it on a generator. And absolutely hyperfocus should not be affected by a toolbox in a positive way (see autodidact).
There should never be a 40 second generator as that is part of the game we should have left behind years ago unless the killer can kick a generator with no perks and have it be completely reset to zero in 90 seconds. Which of course would mean that CoB and Overcharge would be insane levels of gen regression.
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@greed23 said:
Recently it was pointed out that Legion, Myers, Wraith, wesker, and any killer who has modified vault speeds through add-ons or special killer attributes no longer benefit from the vault speed perks.
My only question is... Why? No one was complaining about the meme builds of fire up, bamboozle, and superior anatomy. It was usually funny and very scary to bump into one of these non-meta builds where the killer vaults a window as fast as a survivor. All this has done is remove yet another non-meta but fun option for killer builds. One person pointed out that they'll just start running the same slow down set that every killer does now.
Basically, just saying that these decisions should be reverted, as they provide no benefit to anyone.
Which patch did this? That's incredibly stupid.