DBDVulture
DBDVulture
About
- Username
- DBDVulture
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299427#Comment_3299427
"(along with hug tech : which has already been confirmed that it will be removed)."
As far as I'm aware it is only confirmed that they wanted to look into it, which is not the same as removing it... So where did you get that part from?
Also if you haven't already watched it, this video of lilithOmen about the topic is quite informative.
There was a post from Mandy some time ago where she said the team had planned on removing it.
-
@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298789#Comment_3298789
"Jolt is a time saver. Nurse can down very quickly and there is no longer a cool down on Jolt. Nurse should get jolt only with a non blink. That means she could use it but it would he bard for her to sue over and over again. That would be fair when you consider pig can use jolt and not get much use because his chases are long and she can't move quickly."
Indeed, since it has been modified, Jolt allows the killer to chain activations on one or more generators.
However, we must not forget that the survivors are also able to :
- communicate with each other during the chase in order to avoid bringing the killer to the most risky places, i.e. the places where the rest of the team is repairing the most important generators
- choose not to force the repair of such or such generator if they see that the killer is in the middle of a chase at that place
Obviously, Jolt has a rather large range of action, but with good communication, it is possible to reduce his efficiency in a way that is obviously not absolute, but nevertheless significant.
All the nerfs that I am suggesting would take nurse down from S tier to A- tier. That would be good for the game overall. Remove all the things that are head and shoulders above everything else and make it so that most things are near the same level of "goodness".
Along with Nurse being gutted we would treat Blight the same way. Maybe for example he needs to lose the ability to slam into pallets and break them (along with hug tech : which has already been confirmed that it will be removed).
And then we nerf SWF so that it doesn't have a massive advantage. That makes killer more fun and it makes playing as a solo feel like you are not "missing out" because the SWF can't run any duplicate perks or items.
-"However, we must not forget that the survivors are also able to : - communicate with each other"
As it stands now Nurse and Blight are the only fair killers to play against a 3 or 4 man SWF. Nerf SWF, Blight and Nurse and everything else gets better by proxy. SWF would be much weaker if they could not repeat any perks or items.
"There is no problem with the nurse starting with 2 blinks."
There is a huge problem. She isn't a build up killer and Nemesis is. If nurse can start with 2 blinks then Nemesis should just not even have a buildup mechanic. Make his whip be T3 length (with the higher movement speed) the entire game and make him always have the ability to instantly break pallets.
Nurse is the best killer in the game. There is no reason for her not to be a build up killer. Make Michael Myers start in "tier 2" with full move speed as the new "T1". Or he could just be 5% slower in T1 and then plays the rest of the game 5% faster when he gets out of T2. Either option would be fair.
"In general, just because some killers don't have something that Nurse has, doesn't mean that it should be treated as a race to the bottom."
The nerfs I propose to Nurse would not put her on the bottom. She would still be a solid "A tier" killer. She would be harder to use but still have very high reward when you play her well.
I am well aware of the Hens game you mentioned. And there's another good game by Hens where he plays no perk Nurse vs a 4 man team (named something like Nurse is OP). That game highlights three things :
1) crow map is too big for killers without movement speed : cut it down to 9500m² or less.
2) SWF is too strong and needs adjustment (no repeats as a start)
3) Nurse is too strong relative to all other killers.
-
@sillyjacob said:
If you have time, I'd like to know what could be improved on the following?
- Which killer(s) need changes in what way (including teachable perks)
- Which survivor(s) need changes in what way (including teachable perks)
- What gameplay mechanics need change.
This is for a suggestive Mid Chapter update I would create to view the community feedback.
SWF needs to be limited.
No repeats of any perks, characters, items or offerings inside a SWF. Lock everything but cosmetics when a swf team queues. Give them a UI element so they see what others are bring before they queue up.
This will boost solo que because they can bring anything and SWF is limited.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298840#Comment_3298840
Well if protecting a 3 gen is considered holding the game hostage then so is 2 people sitting in lockers because both are not really progressing the game.
Holding a 3 gen and hurting the survivors sometimes is not hostage taking. It has to be an extreme case of obviously not trying to win and just win via stalemate.
@lagosta said:
hmm, maybe bc flashbangs can only be used once, unlike flashlights? not sure though
There is no way to cancel a locker grab so you are not supposed to be able to be blinded. Considering flashlight saves were made braindead this is not an unreasonable request
-
@illumina said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298857#Comment_3298857
This is false.
First let me say it is disingenuous to say a "very organized SWF". If by that you mean a comp level team like that of the streamer - Hens, then maybe.
It has always been the case that a veteran player can assemble a team with 3 bad to medium skilled players and steer them to victory. Let us consider for a moment that the killer's time is a 1:4 compression in that if he is afk 10 seconnds then the enemy team had 40 seconds collectively. If one person is hooked and 3 people leave their generator that can waste 2 players 20 of time seconds easily.
Avoiding this one time in a SWF by saying " I got the save" means your team just prevented 40 seconds of lost time. How many hooks are there in a normal game? Let's say there are 8 hooks.20 seconds *2 * 8= 320 seconds.
There is no way that a team of solo players will ever make up for the difference in lost time compared to a SWF considering just this one aspect. But we must realize that SWF is not just calling this one thing out. A decent SWF team calls out many things like what perks the killer is using, where the killer is going, if X pallet has been used/wall broken, and where a totem is located.. Sure they're not tournament ready but they save 4 minutes minimum per game by making call outs.
The solo players would only potentially have this info via aura reading perks. The SWF team gets the info without using perk slots. This is an advantage on the level of cheating (which is different than saying it is cheating).
I would say that 90% of my game have at least one organized team of two SWF players. I know this to be true by looking at their friends list.
Yes, I mean that of streamer level. By your example, I would consider that very organized as well. We have totally different experiences. I'm about 512 hours in this game and if I'm not SWF myself, then I rarely even see 3 people SWF, let alone 2. I can agree that a veteran can possibly lead 3 average players to a win but 3 bad players? I'm not so sure. "I'm going for the save" while they have already dropped gens will still waste time. Depending on killer perks as well, they may not even be able to continue the gen a la Deadmans Switch.
Maybe I need more hours in this game to experience what you are. I consider myself an average player but I still sit at a 70% loss ratio. Different experiences.
Also, to apply tournament style rules to all SWF's would be harsh. We can agree to tourny players try harder than normal players. Some SWf's just play just to hang out with each other.
"I consider myself an average player but I still sit at a 70% loss ratio."
That's not average - of if that is average add me to your friends list and we will fix that.
-
@GlitchyGamer said:
SWF is literally the ONLY chance survivors stand against killers right now. The state of solo queue is unplayable. If they "banned swfs" you'll find yourself playing against other killers because no one is gonna stay for that torture.
I played 4 survivor games tonight. First game I was face camped by a knight and my team did not blast gens. I should have killed myself on hook to punish them but didnt.
Second game I had one survivor who had 2 mins to finish a gen solo and was hiding while the last gen got done. Me and another survivor had a gen to 90% progress. I died that game b/c I finished the gen while the other girl ran and hid. This game would have been super easy except one girl quit. She quit on death hook but that 15 seconds cost me my life in exchange.
I played two more games where I escaped because nobody on the team was mentally handicapped. I had 3/4 good games even with 2 games having bad players.
-
@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298563#Comment_3298563
How do I adapt when an swf can completely delete one or more of my perks just bc they are on comms? The other day as a Freddy I was running Euduring, Sprit Fury, Hubris, and Deadlock. Deadlock did hardly anything, shoot I had two gens left and they were able to do those two gens at the same time. Completely countering Deadlock just bc they were able to talk to each other and time it that way. As for the other 3 perks I got one down with them and after that everyone just started pre-dropping pallets and playing things safe. On top of all this, they had CoH and a few green medkits. How do I adapt to this type of party when Im playing a low tier killer and not even running a meta build? Just telling someone to adapt doesn't do anything bc in a lot of cases you can't adapt unless you just want every killer to play a meta nurse or blight just in case they end up in an swf lobby. Then if that happens you just make soloQ lobbies even more painful.
-"The other day as a Freddy I was running Euduring, Sprit Fury, Hubris, and Deadlock. Deadlock did hardly anything, shoot I had two gens left and they were able to do those two gens at the same time."
This is no fault of your own but rather a design flaw with Deadlock. They added rollback protection for pallets so the least the devs could do is add rollback protection for deadlock. It should be the case that if you were able to finish gens at exactly the same time (becuse you were a robot or something) that the perk would activate and lock out the second generator via rollback.
That is the bare minimum expectation for fairness.
@illumina said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298568#Comment_3298568
You aren't going to go against very organized SWF often at all. Even so, other commentors have already said that the win ratio for killers is 50% in tournaments. Encountering those same players in SWF regular queue is going to be super rare.
I wonder how you deal with two flashlights and two toolboxes. Do you run Lightborn and Franklin's demise? If so, against SWF those are already deleted by them because they have no use for items.
"-You aren't going to go against very organized SWF often at all. "
This is false.
First let me say it is disingenuous to say a "very organized SWF". If by that you mean a comp level team like that of the streamer - Hens, then maybe.
It has always been the case that a veteran player can assemble a team with 3 bad to medium skilled players and steer them to victory. Let us consider for a moment that the killer's time is a 1:4 compression in that if he is afk 10 seconnds then the enemy team had 40 seconds collectively. If one person is hooked and 3 people leave their generator that can waste 2 players 20 of time seconds easily.
Avoiding this one time in a SWF by saying " I got the save" means your team just prevented 40 seconds of lost time. How many hooks are there in a normal game? Let's say there are 8 hooks.20 seconds *2 * 8= 320 seconds.
There is no way that a team of solo players will ever make up for the difference in lost time compared to a SWF considering just this one aspect. But we must realize that SWF is not just calling this one thing out. A decent SWF team calls out many things like what perks the killer is using, where the killer is going, if X pallet has been used/wall broken, and where a totem is located.. Sure they're not tournament ready but they save 4 minutes minimum per game by making call outs.
The solo players would only potentially have this info via aura reading perks. The SWF team gets the info without using perk slots. This is an advantage on the level of cheating (which is different than saying it is cheating).
I would say that 90% of my game have at least one organized team of two SWF players. I know this to be true by looking at their friends list.
"Even so, other commentors have already said that the win ratio for killers is 50% in tournaments."
Tournaments massively restrict survivors. Therefore why don't we restrict survivors in a team on coms with that rule set? Impose the rule : No character, perk , item , or offering may be repeated in a SWF group. Upon entering queue everything but your outfit becomes locked. Add a UI element so that when the team has not yet entered queue you can see the perks/itens+addons/offerings your allies want to bring.
There are plenty of heal perks : self care, CoH, inner healing, etc. There are plenty of gen rush perks : Prove Thyself, Fast Track, Hyperfocus, etc. There are plenty of exhaustion perks : DH, Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced Landing, etc.
You're still playing with your friends but now you are slightly limited to reflect the massive efficiency bonus you get from voice coms. This would be good for the game because solo would have an advantage (4 players can all potentially bring the best items/perks). SWF would also have an advantage : efficient play via voice coms.
"Encountering those same players in SWF regular queue is going to be super rare."
When you win often you can actually get to the point where you queue with the same survivors and sometimes play against the same killer. You don't even have to take my personal experiences into account. You can see this has happened with Truetalent's stream where he queued by chance with one of Agony's team members twice in a single stream (three games in a row). You can see him play against the same strong SWF sometimes twice in a single stream (I have seen this event more often on CMWinter's stream).
@BillsHere101 said:
SWF destroys the balance of the game. You can easily see that in tournaments that survivors, no matter how good the killer is (even with nurse and meta perks), that SWF always win.
Ban SWF. It was never intented for the game to be a 4 man group and coordinated party to dominate for so long.
-"Ban SWF"
Literally no one is asking for this. What you mean is : make SWF give the opposing side an edge to balance out the fact that you have voice coms.
An easy example : IF you play in a SWF give the killer 4 perks that he chooses ahead of time for each of his three loadouds. If he plays vs 4 solo players those perks do nothing. If he plays vs SWF then he gets his 4 normal perks and the 4 extra perks.
Now the killer has 8 perks to balance out the communication advantage. That would be a second way to balance SWF.
But what about solo queue players who were in a game with a 2 man SWF?
Give solo queue players 4 information perks chosen ahead of time that only activate if they are in a game featuring SWF. So they could select perks like :Alert, Bond, Empathy, Kindred and Rookie Spirit. They could not choose "dead hard" as one of their information perks.
I would love to play against SWF teams if I got to bring 8 perks. Why? Because when I play in a SWF I can easily convey the information worth somewhere between 12-16 perks. That's just not fair for a killer to play against.
-
@Forza said:
One thing that has always felt off to me from a pacing perspective is how the game feels once the generators are powered. The survivors 99% the gates, regroup, heal, and make any saves they can. Often times this is actually when pressure dissipates.
But imagine the end game countdown starting as soon as the last generator is powered. You'd have 2 minutes to open the gates, save anyone on the hook or who is slugged, etc. End game perks suddenly become more valuable, saves become riskier because even if you have time to heal, open the gates etc you might not have enough time to run across the map, make a daring rescue and get back to the exit.
I think games would overall feel much more dramatic.
Or you could just make it so that survivors cannot 99% open a gate. Add gate regression so that every second when no one is holding the switch the gate loses 0.5 seconds of progress.
-
@Mew said:
pretty sure the reason flashlight locker immunity was introduced was because of survivors holding the game hostage with duo locker saving.
flashbangs/firecrackers are finite, and require 2 people not doing gens once the flashbang is made. its fine.
Flashlights have limited duration as well so that's not really a viable argument considering the exact wording:
"Killers are now immune to blindness while grabbing a Survivor out of a locker"
-
@HaybaleMS said:
I don’t know, but don’t take all the fun away from survivors. Flash bang saves are difficult, so I don’t think it is happening that often. How many times has this happen to you?
Zero. I don't think most people know you can even do it.
However it doesn't make any sense that they removed the flashlight blindness and left flashbang. There is zero counterplay on a locker grab.
If DBD had animation fakes it would be a completely different story.
-
Make the tomstone work on a survivor on the ground - /fixed.
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298226#Comment_3298226
"The strongest killer in the game who has the shortest chases in the hands of a good player should not be getting easy gen regression. The strongest killer in the game should not be getting 1 hit downs - except via NOED or Make your Choice."
Jolt and Sloppy are still far less opressive than the current gen kick meta... So I don't really know if it helps to remove her ability to use weaker perks... Exposed perks of course are a problem however.
Jolt is a time saver. Nurse can down very quickly and there is no longer a cool down on Jolt. Nurse should get jolt only with a non blink. That means she could use it but it would he bard for her to sue over and over again. That would be fair when you consider pig can use jolt and not get much use because his chases are long and she can't move quickly.
Sloppy adds pressure by giving you a chance at one hit downs - something the nurse doesn't need easier access to.
@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298226#Comment_3298226
"Which means that she would require a perfect long single blink to get a hit. Translation : she would now have an incredibly rough game start."
That's exactly right; 1-blink's hit exist, of course, but that's not what the nurse should rely on if she's thinking about an "efficiency" game.
"That is not an opinion most people share. She can have the fastest two hit in the game other than Huntress - who I am proposing would also have the same cool down on with a hatchet that she has for an M1 attack. This would require the nurse to spend one or two cycles to catch up before they could attempt a 2 blink attack. This would make Nurse feel far less oppressive and create more room for counterplay."
I guess when you talk about this "speed" because the nurse can blink right after wiping her weapon?
I understand what you mean; but you have to remember that when she hits a survivor, the survivor gets a speed boost, in addition to the fact that the nurse puts her head down when she gets tired. This is quite enough to make the survivor move away from the nurse and/or to a more complex loop location.
Of course, this is situational; if the nurse hit him while he was in the middle of a deadzone, I agree that she could easily continue on her way. But it's out of her hands, and the maps have a lot of structures that allow the survivor, even if wounded, to waste the nurse's time while the other 3 survivors get ahead of the repair.
"Nurse and Blight have addons with 30-50% effects. Meanwhile we have killers like pig that have 3-9% effects. Nurse addons don't need to affect distance or cooldown. You can make hits with perfect play. Buffing these two parts of her kit is what makes her oppressive."
I'm not a Blight main, so I wouldn't know how to speak effectively about that.
However, regarding the nurse's addons, they are not really a problem.
I completely agree that they make the game more oppressive, of course, that's the point of an addon, to a certain extent.
However, let's look at the range addons: they allow the nurse, depending on the combo, to blink at 24/26/30m instead of 20.
This means that when the nurse starts a real chase, and is therefore very close to a survivor, that the survivor is facing a nurse who is NOT using a range addon (because during the chase, the nurse is relatively close to the survivor, especially if the survivor loops her in complex structures, with LOS breaking as a strategy rather than putting distance).
When I use Heavy Panting, I can blink at 24m.
However, when I am chasing a survivor, I am almost always within 24m. My Heavy Panting is therefore useless to me during the chase.
Where the range addons were actually a problem was when they accelerated the blink speed EVEN at short range, and I agree that was a big problem.
Also, if I use Kavanagh's Last Beathe for example, I can tp myself at 26m.
But it's double-edged, because the farther my blink starting point is from the survivor, the more time/opportunity it gives him to back/double back and/or prepare a trajectory change to an interesting loop spot for him.
Regarding the reload addons, when I use both at the same time, it actually allows me to chain blinks very quickly, which makes the game much more oppressive for the survivor, I agree!
But it doesn't prevent him from having at his disposal some means to counter me. On the other hand, it is sure, and I agree with you on this, that he will have to think and make decisions much faster, because I would have the capacity to react, on my side, also much faster.
"You forgot the option where she's really good. Rewarding first hit blinks would make her kit harder to use. The problem is that relying on two blinks to hit is honestly a skill issue. See examples of good nurses in action."
Even the best nurses almost always validate their attacks with the second blink.
Of course, in some cases, when they see that it was an absolutely perfect blink, and they are 100% sure that they can do it, they do it with the first blink.
But this is not a constant.
Especially against experienced survivors.
"The strongest killer in the game who has the shortest chases in the hands of a good player should not be getting easy gen regression. The strongest killer in the game should not be getting 1 hit downs - except via NOED or Make your Choice."
In fact, you see, I find that depriving the nurse of Starstruck and NOED would not be a problem, as these two perks can generate something too unbalancing when she uses them.
However, if you turn Nurse's M1 into an M2, it prevents her from using Jolt, Sloppy Butcher and Knockout, which are not overpowered skills. So there is no reason to do this.
So, to prevent the nurse from using Starstruck, but still allow her to use Jolt, Sloppy Butcher and K.O., simply remove her TR when she is carrying a survivor and (a great idea suggested by some players) replace it with a lullaby.
As for NOED, I don't know what your opinion is on that, but I think if that perk just disappeared from the game, it wouldn't be a bad thing in itself.
Anyway, it's nice; and I thank you for it; to be able to discuss a subject like this calmly, far from people who are content to judge/criticize by overabusing generalizations, hyperboles and baseless assumptions 🤗
"However, regarding the nurse's addons, they are not really a problem."
Since you go out of your way to explain how they don't help you in chase then it should not be a problem to remove blink distance and recharge addons. Or we could make them be like 2% longer.
Nurse should not be getting +distance blink addons when other killers get nonsense like this as a green addon.
-"Regarding the reload addons, when I use both at the same time, it actually allows me to chain blinks very quickly, which makes the game much more oppressive for the survivor, I agree!"
Nurse without addons is oppressive when played by a good player. Most of the killer cast is a complete joke to good players unless you bring best in slot addons and you are completely insane with that killer.
-"But it doesn't prevent him from having at his disposal some means to counter me."
I am not one of those people saying : Nurse has no counterplay (/wah). The problem is that the counterplay is very limited. If she blinks perfectly then you get hit. Giving people more room between sets of blinks would make chases longer.
I am one of those people that thinks there should be no S tier killers. There shouldn't be anything below a "B" tier killer either. For comparsion sake I would say doctor is in the "D" category. I don't think it would be probematic if the Doctor had an iri addon that made his shock give deep wounds (some conditions should apply, maybe at least madness 2).
And before people think Blight is fine: no he isn't. Some of his "best " addons should probably be -2 bounces instead of +2 bounces (alchemist ring and adrenaline vial).
Compound 33 should probably give blight a permanent movement speed penalty. On that note : Blight could easily be a 110% killer and be perfectly fine.
Also before we move on - there should be no nerfing of Blight or Nurse until SWF gets nerfed. As a minimum : no character, item , perk or offering can be repeated. When the team queues up everything except their outfit becomes locked. Add a UI element so people can see team members perks to coordinate better before a match.
"Even the best nurses almost always validate their attacks with the second blink."
So making her start the game with one blink would slow down her ability to snowball tremendously. She would have to blink to get close, blink to get close and then try for a single blink hit. This would make her even more difficult to use.
In what world does it make sense for Nurse to start with 2 blinks but Nemesis needs to be a "build up" killer?
"As for NOED, I don't know what your opinion is on that, but I think if that perk just disappeared from the game, it wouldn't be a bad thing in itself. "
NOED was dead to me the moment it got bound to a totem.
When you look at the design of maps we had in 2016 it would make sense from a fairness standpoint if we had the 2016 version of NOED in the game right now (Garden of Joy, Forsaken Boneyard, . In case you were not aware : +9% movement speed and it wasn't bound to a totem so it lasted forever and could not be removed.
Or we could just make NOED read : if the map is larger than 9500m² then NOED is no longer bound to a totem and lasts forever when triggered. There are only about 10 maps smaller than that size. Generally speaking if a map is larger than that then it is not a fair map.
NOED is there so bad killers can hook camp one person to death and then NOED someone at the end of the game and then hook camp them. If noobs need and use it to get 2k that's fine. It's a waste of a perk for killer in the same way that SpineChill was ruined in the 6.0 rework.
-
@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296555#Comment_3296555
I suggest you play with the nurse regularly, so that you understand that what you are suggesting contains a lot of nonsense.
"Make Nurse need to hit surviovrs 3 times with only one blink in order to give her access to second blink"
The nurse's first blink is, in most cases, only to get closer to her target. It is with the 2nd blink that she will lock on to her target and deliver her shot.
Sometimes it is possible to hit a survivor with the first blink, but this is not a constant and is unlikely to work against experienced survivors.
"Make Nurse wipe her weapon after a successful hit and THEN have fatigue (this will stop the cycle of blink blink hit- blink blink hit)."
The nurse doesn't need to be slowed down any more than that after a hit; the survivor has, unless of course he is in a deadzone, already time to get to a loop spot where to extend the hunt, thanks to the acceleration the killer's hit gives him.
"Remove all Blink recharge and distance addons (or reduce the effects to old pig addon levels 1.5-3% effects)."
There is no reason to touch her addons.
I remind you that the nurse's range addons are only felt when she is more than 24/26/30m away. When she is chasing you, since she is relatively close to you, it is like playing against a nurse with no (range) addons.
"Give Nurse a full lunge on the first blink but only a Michael Myers T1 "baby" lunge on the second blink."
Again, Nurse needs her second blink to secure her shot, unless she's lucky, or playing against potatoes, and it would be totally illogical to force her to use an addon just to be able to use a basic element of her gameplay.
And again, for all the people who suggest turning her M1s into M2s: there is no good reason to do that, because it would prevent her from using certain perks, such as Jolt, Sloppy Butcher or K.O. and there is no reason why the nurse can't use those perks.
Regarding the Starstruck problem, remove her TR when she is carrying a survivor and we won't talk about it.
-"The nurse's first blink is, in most cases, only to get closer to her target. It is with the 2nd blink that she will lock on to her target and deliver her shot."
Which means that she would require a perfect long single blink to get a hit. Translation : she would now have an incredibly rough game start.
As a survivor I had zero problems with nurse other than nonsense like double range before the 6.0 change. Why? Because I ran spine chill for 6 years. It was 100% the hard counter perk to both Nurse and Spirit. If nurse had the right blink angle your cat lit up. If not then you just walked away if uninjured after breaking line of sight.
-"The nurse doesn't need to be slowed down any more than that after a hit"
That is not an opinion most people share. She can have the fastest two hit in the game other than Huntress - who I am proposing would also have the same cool down on with a hatchet that she has for an M1 attack. This would require the nurse to spend one or two cycles to catch up before they could attempt a 2 blink attack. This would make Nurse feel far less oppressive and create more room for counterplay.
"-There is no reason to touch her addons."
Nurse and Blight have addons with 30-50% effects. Meanwhile we have killers like pig that have 3-9% effects. Nurse addons don't need to affect distance or cooldown. You can make hits with perfect play. Buffing these two parts of her kit is what makes her oppressive.
-"Again, Nurse needs her second blink to secure her shot, unless she's lucky,"
You forgot the option where she's really good. Rewarding first hit blinks would make her kit harder to use. The problem is that relying on two blinks to hit is honestly a skill issue. See examples of good nurses in action.
-"And again, for all the people who suggest turning her M1s into M2s: there is no good reason to do that"
The strongest killer in the game who has the shortest chases in the hands of a good player should not be getting easy gen regression. The strongest killer in the game should not be getting 1 hit downs - except via NOED or Make your Choice.
-
@GillyBeannn said:
Please enlighten me on how to counter eruption then. I am very curious to know the counter plays.
Definitively smash gens with 2 people and don't touch them solo.
-
@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296493#Comment_3296493
I think we might going a bit off topic on this thread as the op intended but whatever.
So, I want to point out first that I know we have very different views on balance and just in general game issues - and don't get me wrong I do agree with you on things, it's just not very often.
RE: Mikey being fun. I'm going to be honest with you, I really dislike the majority of the killer roster and don't think most of them are fun. I think the skill ceiling on him is just way too low to keep my interest for more than two matches at a time - which is why I never played him outside dailies and why it's taken me so long to get this stupid achievement. I mained pure m1 killers at initially, and mikey is just another one that just has an instadown for a minute so it's never really grabbed me.
So, I main huntress and billy - I go for snipes and cool shots, and curves, and I play for chases. I play m2 only and it keeps me engaged because there is ALWAYS something I can learn, something I can try differently, etc. Their skill ceilings I feel like especially are high, on the way I play them so it's just more to work on. On that note - I don't really play other killers except for dailies/tomes (hag gets insta-rerolled), or if I'm in the mood for something a little different - like I've somewhat been having fun with oni and slinger, but they still aren't my favorites.
I'm going to jump around on some of your post, so I don't think I will direct quote anything, but I think I should be addressing all of your post with my thoughts on it too. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it.
With that out of the way - I think T1 is mostly fine - typically, you shouldn't be in it that long (outside of scratched mirror), and I think those addons I mentioned being basekit should mitigate it. I'm not really opposed to t2 becoming the new t1 with undetectable - but hear me out. I like the concept, because it's sort of thematic - it's a relic of the time he came out, but I think that makes him unique - but if we do that, just make him 115% and undetectable it is just kinda.. eh. On the topic of scratched mirror - if we do make the t2 the new t1, I would honestly want how he is now to be now, because I think it being a meme build, being slow with no lunge is part of the fun - but that is just me - and if I wasn't working for that achievement, it's really the only time I think I'd want to actively play him without a daily. I'm indifferent to your vanity mirror suggestion, but my thoughts on t3 are down below.
I also just don't want him to just become ghostface with how you put it - being infinite stalk the entire match - I think it should be capped out per survivor, just you can stalk that person again after X amount of time.
On the topic of the 'nerf' - I have heard people say that, I don't personally use bamboozle or other vault speed perks on any killer - did that say it in the patch notes or is it just a bug? I haven't really looked into it, so I'm just curious
I think here is where we disagree the most - I think tombstone and tombstone piece are completely busted - removing a survivor out without hooking (outside of devour hope/working for 5 stacks) is exactly why I think he isn't getting any buffs in any place. I think they need to bin tombstone and tombstone piece, or make it only usable on one survivor the entire match and then it kicks you back to t2/you have normal t3 next time. I am mostly ok with infinite tier 3 as a concept - but - it being basekit will be a complete solo stomper and destroy low-mid skill survivors - so I just can't agree with it being completely basekit. And if they keep the iri addon, survivors can't have infinite stalk, nor should it regress, and let's say we make the three addons I propose come basekit - they should not factor in.
So - that is where my thoughts on adding 1 minute to tier 3 come in - right now, without any duration addons it's 1 minute. That's really not very long - but I think increasing it to 2 minutes makes it more of a threat and gives you a bit more time depending on how you play mikey (hook, then leave, or slug and find someone else).
*shrugs*
"I really dislike the majority of the killer roster and don't think most of them are fun"
I strategically only owned about 7 killers for years so I got the daily missions I wanted while getting all the perks through the shrine.
Michael was a lot of fun for several years but he has been "left behind". If killers without a movment power did not play maps larger than 9500m² then we would have a completely different scenario. But that's not how things work - and as a result we have a lot of people who just play Nurse and Blight. The survivors hate the result but like playing on BIg maps that give them a huge advantage.
Back to MM : he's actually a lot of fun once you get the nuance down. I only ever play him with purple tombstone or infinite t3. I played him almost exclusively for about two years (same for Billy). There is a huge fear factor with Michael when you pop infinite T3 and there are still 3 gens left. With the arrival of Bamboozle he got new life but still fails hard on many maps because they are just too big and too safe. Unfortunately the 6.4 patch nerfed the ability to have a movement power vault adjustment with a vault perk speed adjustment.
"On the topic of the 'nerf' - I have heard people say that, I don't personally use bamboozle or other vault speed perks on any killer - did that say it in the patch notes or is it just a bug?"
You can read more about this absolute garbage change here : https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/356878/vault-speed-changes
It was confirmed to be a 6.4 feature. Most likely this was done to nerf Wesker but had the end result of nerfing Legion and Michael (two killers who need everything they can get). To make a long story short the strongest build with Michael I have played in a very long time was : Bam, Fire up, Corrupt, Overcharge (stalk addon+inf t3).
Fire up makes people think you have brutal. It gave you a tiny edge on vaults when you already had an advantage and it made flashlight saves way more difficult (something that also got nerfed for killers). When you had 4 or 5 stacks of FU, Bam and infinte T3 the vault speed was insanely fast. Was it broken? No. You're giving up pain res/Cob and erupt to vault just a bit faster.
The thing is tho that vaulting that fast is something nobody except a Michael main can account for with the default t3 extra lunge range. And that is the type of thing that took 5,000-10,000 hour players out of their groove. Normally if they have 5 seconds to run a loop now they only have 3.8 seconds. But now it's gone forever - along with my desire to play MM.
"So, I main huntress and billy - I go for snipes and cool shots, and curves, and I play for chases"
Most people say I am a killer main but in truth I play both sides. I am a centrist. That being said you will probably hate that I want to see all killers always need to wipe their weapon after any weapon damage (obviously not bear traps or plague vomit).
I just spent about 3M after buying the new survivor with shards - normally I try to keep my shard count around 40k. Anyway this is me and I absolutely despise the thought of playing Billy considering how good he used to be (in part because the maps were very easy for him to navigate form gen to gen with no blocking terrain between). And then there were the steering nerfs, the bump nerfs and the entire overheat mechanic. No thanks.
"I think T1 is mostly fine - typically, you shouldn't be in it that long"
He has the worst start in the entire game and is 100% reliant on using corrupt. There is no reason for him to have such a slow start unless he gets a speed boost forever late game to balance out how slow he is at the start of the game.
"I think it being a meme build, being slow with no lunge is part of the fun"
We should maybe have a survivor perk that makes you run slower too then. So you can run No Mither and "run slow" perks together. Maybe we can add a third perk too that does something like : you die on your second hook (but gain double points) to make a "hard mode".
Burger king myers is stupid. Once you know he's in slow mode it's so easy to overcome. Run to a far corner on a pallet and heal.
-"here is where we disagree the most - I think tombstone and tombstone piece are completely busted"
Nurse's ability to "blink blink hit - blink blink hit" is busted. Nurse would be a completely different killer if she had to hit, then wipe her weapon and then fatigue. Huntres too would be a lot different if M2 recovery times were the same as M1 times (and would be affected by STBFL to encourage smart play). Michael removing someone from the game does not happen quickly. Most of the time with Nurse if you are a little campy pretending not to be campy you can get someone to stage two very quickly. And there's no Green+ purple/pink addon required to do it.
-"I am mostly ok with infinite tier 3 as a concept - but - it being basekit will be a complete solo stomper"
Would still be weaker than Blight, Nurse, Wesker, Pyramid Head, Pinhead (also a solo queue stomper), etc. and therefore is a non issue.
I main Nemesis. The way I play him is very dirty because gen speeds are way too fast. Most of the people I play against are 3 man SWFs and streamers who actually have more than 10 viewers. Almost everyone says : "WHAT how did that hit?" When I whip drag around pallets. I developed a style where I look stupid and bad but it's a ruse to get people to waste pallets quickly. If they dont then I punish with Save the Best. Most of the time I don't mindgame because I don't have to (hence why I get so many people telling me I am bad when I 4k'd their swf). I use bamboozle and say : you will throw the pallet or you will get hit. People absolutely hate it. And then depending on the terrain they get zoned anyway and I insta break the pallet and hit them again. When you run Bamboozle on a killer like Nemesis it makes people scratch their head until they see it in action.
What is fantastic about Bamboozle is that much like a god pallet denies the skill of most killer -l that perk denies about 5,000 hours of survivor experience. That thing you wanted to do? Well you can't. You have to run the loop the way I decided. The only time I see bad survivors are when I play KYF or when someone drags an inappropriate level SWF to my game. I don't show them any mercy as that would not be fair to everyone else.
With all that said : I play much better people on Nemesis than I do with Michael. Both killers have trouble with the same maps except that Nemesis has an ace on "the game" and RPD. Those are usually easily 4k maps when people pick them. They are some of the only survivor favored map offerings I allow to be played against me.
Throwing out the odd game where I get infinite T3 at 5 generators Nemesis is a stronger killer than Michael even considering the the tombstone offerings. I wouldn't honestly say Nemesis is a strong killer as there are many maps that I have a near 10% win rate on vs good players ( Torment Creek is just about impossible for me to win unless the team throws hard).
Also considering the fact that GF just got mega buffed it's not fair to leave MM where he is now. GF gets infinite stalk options and can lean in/out to reset the survivors stalk on him without resetting his own progress - this is pure nonsense. Michael gets 1 minute of his power then it resets . But he is "op" if he brings one of two addons - one of which slows him down and is 100% countered by "locker tech" (kek).
It would not really be fair to give GF nerfs as he still isn't a very good killer. ( maybe a survivor staring at him should reduce their stalk progress faster than it is gained to deny your ability to "99" as well force better counterplay with staring contests). It might also be fair if GF had his stalk decay on a timer and you needed to use an addon to make it not decay (at least a purple).
-"I also just don't want him to just become ghostface with how you put it - being infinite stalk the entire match"
I was definitely not asking for that. But when you look at MM's start and compare that to GF it's really not fair to keep GF as he is and MM as he is right now.
If basekit infinite T3 is too much we could also do the other thing I thought about: Let him break pallets with a swing when he is in T3. Create a quick animation for it and give it a "nemesis" timed pallet break time. Then the map becomes a race against time to finish the gens before he hits infinite t3 (because why wouldn't you use that addon since you feel he should lose the purple tombstone).
I would be totally ok with the tombstone getting a complete rework. Years ago I suggested a perk for killer but I will pitch it again here. Call it whatever - Torment of the Entity : the obsession plays the trial injured with the broken status. You could maybe make it work so that the purple tombstone now just makes the obsession has that effect the entire game. The end result is the same : you're going to die much faster. The way we get to that result is different and would force a different play style to counter. For the pink tombstone you force the obsession to start injured and broken. Anyone you injure with your power active becomes broken for the rest of the match. Let the immersion begin. The flavor text could read something like : merely seeing the evil flow through *him* puts a heavy weight on your soul.
Note: My perk idea would also be a good rework idea for Dying Light. It would be an instant killer favorite. Also since it's locked behind a DLC paywall it's fine to make it pay to win.
-
@Zaydin said:
Given it isn't a bannable offense and all despite it being cheating.
Not Queen made a post years ago. It's not part of DBD - it's a streaming issue.
Dont want to get sniped? Add a stream delay or don't stream.
-
@Star99er said:
As the title implies there's a new bug with Demogorgon. This bug makes it to where if a survivor is downed on top of a portal you can simultaneously teleport while picking up and carrying the survivor who's downed on top of the portal. This feels very fitting for Demogorgon to have and is honestly a fun way for him to carry survivors to a hook.
wrong forum to discuss bugs.
-
@Sally_S_gay_son said:
no they are not
I understand the frustration but you do not need any specific perks to win the games nor specific killers, if you think you do then you are just bad at the game
you are not entitled to ANYTHING being given for free, especially since BHVR gives all original content for free and DLCs can be found dirt cheap online
they need to charge for something in order for us to keep getting new content, it's literally a business, I swear people are acting as if gaming companies are charities or something
DBD is so unique in the sense that you can never experience all of the content it can provide in one match anyway and there is so much free content and a combination of builds that can be done with original perks that are strong, its really more nuanced than just 'omg licensed perks op = win'' when there's so much rng involved in this game anyway
-"I understand the frustration but you do not need any specific perks to win the games nor specific killers, if you think you do then you are just bad at the game"
I'm sure at the MMR at which you play that is true.
"you are not entitled to ANYTHING being given for free"
Go back and look at the DBD dev streams from 2016 Around the time of the first DLC. Dave made a quote that the shrine was designed to give players access to DLC perks when they did not own the DLC. By definition that its intended purpose.
People tend to quit games if they discover that there is in fact a "pay to win" paywall. You might Notice that while DBD has "lots " of players they are down from the last two years. It's a 6 year old game that can't keep long term players. I may have 40 friends who own this game but only one friend on that list still plays it (other than people I met in the last year).
-
@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296617#Comment_3296617
Eh.
Here's the thing.
I've spent, in total, maybe the same amount on DbD as I would on your average AAA release - perhaps a touch more.
I've gotten over 1,000 hours of fun out of DbD.
While I certainly disagree with some of their decisions, I don't begrudge BHVR 10 bucks every few months.
Pay them if you want but the content is supposed to be available to everyone for free.
It's part of the concept of fair play. Imagine if Nurse and Blight were license characters and they were better than everything else by a huge margin because they were pay wall locked.
-
@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296521#Comment_3296521
Exactly, Nemesis is bit underwhelming when the rng of his zombies is not in his favor. Getting stuck in obstacles, not patrolling areas that is more likely has Survivors, such as a Survivor working a generator and making sound; or a Nemesis in engaging chase with a Survivor. It would be nice if the zombies despawn if stuck in a tree or obstacles and respawn elsewhere, and preferably if they can patrol close to Survivor's that are doing actions or making sound; such as repairing, unhooking, Healing. Also, a bonus if the zombie can find Boon Totems too, as they generate loud sounds.
And if possible, make it so that being hit with the tentacle and infected but not injured should not give you speed boost. It quite annoying when smart Survivor can exploit zombies in chase while healthy and not infected, to use them as a speed boost to get away to the next loop in chase. Either being infected while healthy should not give speed boost, or make all attacks that infected you will injured, doesn't matter if it was a zombie attack or Nemesis tentacles.
That reminds me - that Nemesis needs one more change.
If a zombie hits a survivor then your infection level increases as if you delivered the hit.
"make it so that being hit with the tentacle and infected but not injured should not give you speed boost"
This would not be an issue if he gives infection+injury on hit at T3. I would rather he get everything else on my list before this - even though it would give him a power increase.
Alternatively if Nemesis played the entire game in t3 then he would have less time in "bad buildup" mode and it would counterbalance things. Plus there would be the option for the killer to do something like -2 vaccines and -2% move speed while infected.
-
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296555#Comment_3296555
Onis Power is arguably the strongest in the game... When you say remove all buildup from other killers, does that mean oni gets his power for the entire game? Ok, Oni is now the strongest killer in the game.
I don't mind the weapon whipe thing to much, but the baby lunge is just annoying af...
Oni buildup is ok actually. He is risk/reward. balanced.
-
@Moxie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292168#Comment_3292168
A DLC every 3 months consistantly is also much more frequent than any other business.
Take that as you will.
It's not good game design to have " pay to win" features locked behind pay content.
Consider as well you can play survivor for free and have zero issues.
-
@StarLost said:
I'm not a fan of it myself, but what's the answer? No good perks on licensed killers?
That said, you can get all three of those killers for less than the price of a burger and fries.
I'm not interested in supporting unhealthy game practices. The shrine was introduced as a way to give everyone access to DLC perks. It is clearly not living up to that purpose.
Why is the shrine not a random fixed rotation that can't repeat until everything has been in the shrine before a repeat? Perks could still take 6 months or longer to appear given how many perks there are in the game.
-
@furret534 said:
I’m curious how people want her nerfed. I do agree she’s powerful, but I also think she’s totally fine base kit, so I believe her add ons need to be nerfed. However, most people seem to think that Nurse needs to be nerfed in a multitude of ways, whether that be her base kit, her add ons, her power needing a complete rework, etc. and I’m curious what people think could be done to make her more fun and balanced.
I have 2 different ideas (pick one) :
- Make Nurse and Blight "build up " characters since they are the best killers. Remove buildup from all other killers. Make Nurse need to hit surviovrs 3 times with only one blink in order to give her access to second blink. Give Blight only 3 tokens until he hits 3 times with a rush.
- Give Nurse various nerfs that make her weaker overall. Remove the ability to use starstruck except on non blink hits. Make Nurse wipe her weapon after a successful hit and THEN have fatigue (this will stop the cycle of blink blink hit- blink blink hit). Remove Collision from nurse until after she has recovered from fatigue (to prevent body blocking and allow more PoV tech ). Remove all Blink recharge and distance addons (or reduce the effects to old pig addon levels 1.5-3% effects). Give Nurse a full lunge on the first blink but only a Michael Myers T1 "baby" lunge on the second blink. Change one addon to give her full lunge on second blink (purple).
-
@supersonic853 said:
With the gen kick perks like call of brine overcharge eruption as well as hit and run a lot of my matches against him are actually very difficult. Since most of my swf doesn't play the game anymore most of my games are solo games. His movement speed and just general map control is very good when combined with the perks right now. And his addons are pretty amazing as well. It's good to see him again just not 5 games in a row with the same build. Now i don't care if they readjust him or the perks. Since those perks are just the meta on most killers right now. He just abuses them even more. But what do you think of his placement with the current meta?
If you were talking about wraith after he got buffed last year before he got nerfed- then this post might make sense. Wraith in the current meta is kind of a joke vs good players.
-
@BlueHorkew said:
I am not an expert on nemesis, but i think the character could be way more interesting if some small changes were applied:
So:
- contamination points gained from contaminating survivors reduced from 3 to 1.5
- contamination points gained from damaging survivors increased from 1 to 3
- Mutation 3 contamination required increased from 15 to 24
- Mutation 1, no hindered effect on contamination, 1 second of hindered effect on injure
- Mutation 2, 0.25 sec of hindered effect on contamination, 1.5 seconds of hindered effect on injure
- Mutation 3, 0.5 sec of hindered effect on contamination, contaminated survivors are put directly in the dying state
- Vaccine chest respawn after 60 seconds of a vaccine being used
- Zombies are destroyed after hitting a survivor, zombies put survivor in deep wound if contaminated and injured instead of dying state
- Better add-ons that affect his power instead of zombies
So, why these changes,
- trying to make each mutation more distinct and an increase in tension along the match
- Giving survivors incentive to vaccinate, by upping the rewards of nemesis in contaminated targets and giving him one shot at mutation 3
- Reducing the effectiveness of zombies, so RNG wouldn't affect matches to badly, they would be less efficient campers or one shot combos and would be more of location, slowdown and spreading contamination
I am a Nemesis Expert. The best change for this killer would be to do one of two things :
- Keep the tier up whip system as it is but make it so that on T3 he injures+infects with a whip attack.
- Remove the tier whip system and have him play with one whip length the whole game.
Of these two options #2 makes the most sense. Change Nurse to be a "tier up" killer. She only starts with 1 blink until she has blinked and hit survivors with that blink three times. Then she gets two blinks.
Along with this have Zombie AI changes:
- Zombies now get scaled % movement and detection rates based on map sizes. Any map that is 9000m² or smaller will have a 1.0 effect. For 10,000m² maps increase zombie detection range by +6m. For 11,000m² maps make zombie detection be +12m. Double all detection rates when a survivor is infected. Give Zombies a 25% movmeent speed buff on 10,000m² maps and a 50% movement speed buff on 11,000m² maps. (or we could just make all maps be no larger than 9000m²).
- Zombies don't get stuck. Ok it's not that simple - so have them respawn immediately if they just got stuck. Give them a "sprint burst" effect and a detection boost if they had just gotten stuck and respawned.
- Make Nemesis able to clip through his zomibes
- Make the zombies "killer sized" so they cant get stuck in all the places they get stuck now.
Finally you need to rework like 90% of his addons.
- the pink addon for zombie movement speed should be something like : +50% zombie speed every time a generator is completed for the rest of the match. That would mean that zombies would move at 250% speed when all gens are done.
- Change Plant 43 Vines (green addon) to be : -1 vaccine per trial.
- Change Broken Recovery Coin (purple addon) to be : -2 vaccines per trial (formerly -1 vaccine per trial)
- Change Licker Tongue (green addon) to be : -2% movement speed if infected
- Complete rework for : Visitor Wristband, Admin Wristband.
- Change : S.T.A.R.S. Field Combat Manual to reveal a survivor's aura for 6 seconds when a zombie initiates a chase.
- Chane NE-a Parasite to not have a duration. If you are infected then you are oblivious.
- Double the duration of killer instinct for : Damaged Syringe and Adrenaline Injector
-
@Xernoton said:
Not only do these nerfs not benefit anyone, they lead to a worse game experience overall. Survivors don't like seeing the same meta perks for killers every game, yet here we are removing synergy with perks that are fun for both sides. Admittedly these perks were not used too often but it was still fun when it happened. Its frustrating to see that the competitive aspect of the game seems to be prioritized over a fun experience.
It's worse than that. This stealth nerf encourages people to not play Legion or MM who are generally regarded as weak.
Is that what survivors want - to have killers only play Blight and Nurse?
-
@Bran said:
I have said that all perks should be released into the bloodweb on release for free. It makes the most sense if you are actually power to the player after all. Which we know Bhvr isn't...so obviously it's not down that way.
It's fine to have paid content that people can access "now" by buying the DLC. Pay to have it now is fine.
Keeping the game in a "pretend" state of free content to perks with a random srhine is complete garbage.
There are enough perks to have the shrine just rotate through all available perks with no randomness. Let each perk appear once and then lock out its appearance until every perk has appeared. There are a ton of perks and each week you see two from each side. That means you would have to wait a while but eventually every perk would appear once per "year".
-
@FMG15 said:
The problem is not the 3-gen by itself. Survivors have a multitude of perks to break a 3-gen. The main problems are the gen kicking perks where the killer just holds the 3 gen from the start and there is barely anything soloQ survivors can do. The current gen kicking meta is too oppressive and boring. I used to love eruption before the perk overhaul now I'm disgusted by how overpowered it is. Probably the best gen perk of all time.
"Probably the best gen perk of all time."
You meant Pop goes the Weasel - pre nerf. Instant Regression after a hook. There was even a time you could use it with ruin/undying.
@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296203#Comment_3296203
So, you'd cut out the slower T1, and make t2 the same just undetectable? And one tier 3 is just the regular length, and then the next time it pops it's infinite?
I'm not really sure how I'd personally want him buffed. I think basekit infinite tier 3 as you mentioned here might be too strong - but I'm not opposed to a basekit longer t3 - maybe a minute longer (I think for frame of reference, lock of hair adds 40 seconds).
I think memorial flower, earrings + jewelery could be made basekit and rework all of those addons to do something else - so slightly faster stalk, move around 30% quicker when stalking.
Assuming tombstone/tombstone piece was removed I'd love to have him get more stalk from stalking far away (that is truer to lore too), and remove the cap on stalked survivors to get his power, like slowly allow myers to stalk them more. Which would also help out if you kill a survivor that still has juice left in em. I don't know the sweet spot or how fast it should regenerate though.
I think undetectable is fairly weak for the most part, but I always thought it would be neat in T2 stalking makes myers undetectable.
But yeah, just some thoughts I've had over the course of me slowly getting his 300 tier ups achievement, because I really find him boring to play as.
-"I'm not really sure how I'd personally want him buffed. I think basekit infinite tier 3 as you mentioned here might be too strong"
Look at Ghostface and his power. He has infinite possibility to use his power. He now can stalk survivors from ranges where they can't reveal him. He now has 60 seconds up from 30 seconds to get an instant down.
Michael has a limit on how much he can stalk. Basekit Infinite T3 in a "final form" would really make him scary and make him very different.
The fact that he gets very little stalk at long range and had his multi stalk capabilities removed (about a week after his release) keep him quite weak.
You can play GF as a M1 killer but you can't do that with MM because his start is so damn terrible. You either need to keep the slow start and say ok : base kit +5% speed in T3 from now on or remove the T1 nonsense where you have no lunge.
"-undetectable is fairly weak for the most part, but I always thought it would be neat in T2 stalking makes myers undetectable."
Survivors would definitely have a lot more trouble if he had undetectable in T2. Most people can loop only because the red light exists. If MM had that turned "off" in t2 as basekit that would be a decent buff.
-"slowly getting his 300 tier ups achievement, because I really find him boring to play as."
He was actually a pretty fun kill to play from 2016-2018. Unfortunately he has been "left behind".
Now unfortunately they just nerfed him with the 6.4 patch that was aimed at nerfing Wesker. Legion also got nerfed. In short : killers cannot have any type of perk window vault speed adjustments if their power also gives a movement speed adjustment through vaults. That really hurts MM and Legion as both greatly benefited from Bamboozle.
-"Assuming tombstone/tombstone piece was removed"
Consider for a moment that he has limited stalk. Assume they said ok we're using my plan so that normally he would get to infinite T3 on the "third form". Look at how the purple tombstone works.
They could keep this addon and basically make it so that using this addon will kick you out of Inifnite T3. Getting kicked back into T2 would be a downgrade because you might not be able to get back to T3. If Infinite T3 is base kit then this really loses a lot of appeal. That would let people use it if they really want but overall it would greatly nerf the addon. Maybe the way it works is that you need to fully drain every survivor to be able to go into infinite T3 a second time if you use this addon.
Actually it would likely be more simple to have this addon just kick you back to the new "t1" which is old t2. Then you kiinda play him "normal" like you would now. You trade infinite base kit T3 for the ability to kill with limited T3. Then when the timer runs our or you kill someone you go back to "old T2". They could also change this addon and make you lose undetectable status when you use this addon.
Note this addon as well :
If they redid Michael like I suggest then this addon would give you wall hacks and the power to hit "old T3" in the new T2. That would be scary to go against. Because this is something of a meme addon the 150% BP would need to get removed.
-
@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295480#Comment_3295480
Ironically, tombstone piece/tombstone/infinite tier 3 are literally the addons that are holding myers back from getting buffed.
They could fix him lie this :
Make current T2 be the new "t1" but you are undetectable.
Make current T3 be the new T2. You charge your power and get a regular T3 once like normal.
Then you make the new T3 be infinite T3.
-
@blue4zion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295772#Comment_3295772
Lol
SWF was added later because of high demand, nothing about Survivor was designed for SWF
And that's why it is so broken.
Add the limits I said before : No repeats of perks, characters, items or offerings. Add the UI element to let teams see what perks people have before the queue. Then lock everything but cosmetics once in queue.
Then SWF has voice coms and solo queue has advantage : can use whatever you want.
-
@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295480#Comment_3295480
The survivor role is based around independent players working together to achieve something they couldn’t do alone. (Still keeping in mind that if ######### hits the fan it’s everyone for themselves).
Removing SWF is counterproductive to that design.
The Killer role is about trying to subjugate the Survivors to the entity, causing pain and suffering with the eventual reward being some kind of release.
Sitting in the middle of gens not trying to kill survivors is not following that design.
Getting hits, using up pallets and building stacks of STBFL is trying to win - but not easy to notice.
Nurse and Blight pretty much always have a 3 gen because they can move so fast and down survivors faster than any other killer (most of the time). Should we all just play those two killers?
-
@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295909#Comment_3295909
If the Killers Power is designed around the premise of "Come to me, or it'll be worse", I can understand waiting around for Survivors to come to you.
However the only reason that Survivors come to the Killer in the case of a 3-gen is due to metagame restrictions and literally having no engaging alternative. They are literally unable to try to avoid the Killer, voiding their role as a Survivor, especially if it is a strong enough strat to consistently result in several additional sacrifices.
From a "I wanna win" perspective, yes, it makes sense.
From a design perspective, it's distasteful.
As long as you attempt some offense it's fine. Doctor just putting people in madness and not attacking is different. I just had a 20+ min on the game. They picked that map to hinder me but I was not a "lesser" killer. They gave me a 3 gen and I slowly whittled down their resources. Even that map eventually runs out of good pallets.
I will chase but only if I know I can make it quick because survivors wanna rush my gens!
-
@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295128#Comment_3295128
"but that's actually a very healthy change for the game. The gens still fly too fast however."
I disagree. It makes it so a killer always gets value from Eruption and in fact the less progress a gen has the more likely they are to get Eruption value. It makes so killers can mindlessly kick gens, there is no "Should I bother kicking this gen?" decision.
If a gen hits zero it should not longer be affected by Eruption. I think that's the first change they should make to Eruption.
That one change alone would reduce the effectiveness of this 1 hour 3gen strategy the current meta enables.
I agree that old Pop was great, but it's a perk on a free character so it can't stay meta... just like Undying and Ruin. If you want meta slowdowns you have to buy Freddy, Sadako and Nemesis. I'm surprised they didn't destroy Pain Res more completely since it's an Artist perk.
"there is no "Should I bother kicking this gen?" decision."
Actually that is a very smart game change to reverse the old mindset : I do not have gen perks therefore kicking gens is worthless.
"If a gen hits zero it should not longer be affected by Eruption."
No - the whole point is that it is a trap you set on a kicked gen.
"Pop was great, but it's a perk on a free character so it can't stay meta... just like Undying and Ruin. If you want meta slowdowns you have to buy Freddy, Sadako and Nemesis"
Yea this is really disgusting. Only one of Pinhead's perks has been in the shrine. Another was up for a vote but the community said no.
-
@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295480#Comment_3295480
The survivor role is based around independent players working together to achieve something they couldn’t do alone. (Still keeping in mind that if ######### hits the fan it’s everyone for themselves).
Removing SWF is counterproductive to that design.
The Killer role is about trying to subjugate the Survivors to the entity, causing pain and suffering with the eventual reward being some kind of release.
Sitting in the middle of gens not trying to kill survivors is not following that design.
My reply was hyperbole. It was only really to say SWF is OP and needs to be balanced.
A simple way to do that would to add one rule : No character, perk, item or offering repeats in a SWF. Add a menu element to show you your friends perks before you queue. Lock everything but cosmetics when a SWF queues. That would go a very long way to make SWF fair and limited.
@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295480#Comment_3295480
The survivor role is based around independent players working together to achieve something they couldn’t do alone. (Still keeping in mind that if ######### hits the fan it’s everyone for themselves).
Removing SWF is counterproductive to that design.
The Killer role is about trying to subjugate the Survivors to the entity, causing pain and suffering with the eventual reward being some kind of release.
Sitting in the middle of gens not trying to kill survivors is not following that design.
Standing in the middle of 3 gens waiting for an opportunity to get a quick down does fill that role.
-
@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295132#Comment_3295132
You missed one:
"we need posters like this with a clear bias to only one group of players in the game to relax their bias and think of the other people playing this game too."
Like, it's not even that what you said is wrong. Just completely one-sided.
Item reform? Yeah. Agreed. There are also a fair number of killer addons that are super unhealthy for the game. Just item reform, though? Ah, okay.
Map and pallet reform? Definitely!? Oh, looks like you are saying every map is only survivor sided, when many times maps form with absolutely nothing in many areas of the map.
So nice that you tacked on "and solo queue players" at the end though.
Come on. You've been around long enough to know how busted the game is for both sides. Stop with the one-sided bias (and don't pretend you aren't in many threads solely advocating for buffs to killers, all the while denying killers like Nurse are an issue).
-"Item reform? Yeah. Agreed. There are also a fair number of killer addons that are super unhealthy for the game."
You can't put everything in a 5 bullet list.
I assume you mean Nurse/Blight addons that have 30-50% bonuses.
If we're talking about purple tombstone - get out. He's a terrible killer without that addon or infinite T3.
@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294828#Comment_3294828
Your argument boils down to "3-Gen is only OP against SoloQ and isn't much of a strategy against SWF, and is only really a problem if the Killer doesn't find the playstyle boring to begin with".
If SoloQ gets better comms so it's easier to communicate, then it'll only be a strat useful on imbalanced MMR matchups.
So why not get rid of it.
If the argument is "But we need tools to fight SWF!", you just said it's not a tool that's useful against SWF.
If the argument is "But in high-level play we need to use this to eek out any actual gameplay", that's an issue with the overall initial availability of Generators in the Trial as a whole. (Start of the match having more gens available to be worked on concurrently gets more of them out of the way causing patrol routes to be more effective)
Let me turn your argument against you : DBD is unfair to the killer if the other team is a SWF. So why not get rid of it?
Solo queue could be made fair if we get rid of SWF in regular games.
-
We need item reform.
We need a map rework for almost all of the reworks.
We need 90% of the killer roster to be viable.
We either need to nerf SWF or buff killer/solo queue players.
We need fundamentally different pallet formations (or reduced counts on all maps) so that killers without an instant pallet break can compete.
We do NOT need a thread talking about this one time one streamer took 4 people hostage for an hour. It's against the rules to play and not try to win.
-
@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295071#Comment_3295071
I don't think this low would be so bad if 6.1.0 actually tried to balance DbD and not just shake up the meta.
The old meta was just more interesting. I miss searching for Undying Ruin totems, I actually did enjoy searching for them and I ran Inner Strength.
Now I am afraid to tap a gen at the beginning of a game to check for Ruin because if the gen has a smidgeon of progress on it a killer can come by and trap the gen with Eruption and it will remain after the gen hits zero and never expire.
The new meta really sucks.
-"Now I am afraid to tap a gen at the beginning of a game to check for Ruin because if the gen has a smidgeon of progress on it a killer can come by and trap the gen with Eruption and it will remain after the gen hits zero and never expire"
You might hate that but that's actually a very healthy change for the game. The gens still fly too fast however.
The problem with the new meta is that SWF fares so much batter against it than solo players. Pop worked against both equally. I often played against SWF teams and would run by a gen someone had to say 40%. I stopped chase vs someone popped the gen and then continued the chase. By the time I hooked that survivor (preferably near that generator) the generator might be to 60% so I just would pop it again.
Then I could camp that gen for just a bit and would be down to ~20% progress. Those were Good times.
"The new meta really sucks."
Yes it does. You basically need to use more gen regression perks than ever before even though they made gens take +10 seconds. The real problem is that almost all of the gen regression is countered if someone touches a generator after you kick it.
That was one of the things that made pop way more interesting to use was because the regression was an instant chase reward.
-
@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294794#Comment_3294794
Killers should be able to "drag the game out" so they can have time to get kills. That's why slowdown/regression perks exist.
What Hens showcased and now others are doing are just dragging the game out not even trying to kill and then letting the game timer ending do the killing for them. This strategy should not be in the game at all. I don't care what killer you're using, there is no proper reason or excuse for a player to resort to this and they should not have the option to do so.
DbD is on its way to a 3 year low for number of players. The new meta really sucks and having games that can last an hour is not helping.
-"DbD is on its way to a 3 year low for number of players."
- Game is 6 years old (lot of games are long dead by this time)
- They changed almost all the big meta perks (which would drive some people to quit who were on the fence)
- MMR sucks. Literally everyone hates the implementation.
- There are no new game modes.
- There are two viable killers across all maps that can handle SWF teams.
- Items are in a terrible state of balance (See the video otz made)
- Efficient play makes both sides miserable.
- We need a complete rework of most of the map reworks. Seriously it's dumb that 4/5 of the farm maps are survivor sided. Crow & garden maps should just be turned off indefinitely. Reskin stranger things map and give us that back. All maps should be 9000m² or all killers should have a "sprint" movement activation with "E" that comes back after 45 seconds and is designed to rapidly move them across the map.
- Most loops are completely unfair for the majority of the killer cast so either we need fewer pallets per map or killers like pig should be able to dash attack and break the pallet. Imagine if Michael Myers could break pallets by swinging at them when in T3! To make this issue worse : Legion, Michael Myers , any potential future killer with a power movement adjustment through windows and Wesker got nerfed so they can't benefit from : fire up, Superior Anatomy, Bamboozle, etc to move through windows faster. Any blanket nerf that just moves "low rank" killers down a notch is just really really bad design.
- DBD has no real competition so they keep one side elated and the other side just barely miserable enough to keep playing. Otz is more frustrated than ever about playing killer with this patch that is supposed to be killer sided.
I could go on.....
-
@ByeByeQ said:
I am referring to the 3gen scenario when the killer finds a tight 3gen and defends it above all else forgoing chases and hooking while their only priorities are making sure no gens get completed in the 3gen and any progress made on those gens quickly regresses to zero. This should not be considered a winning strategy for the killer and is awful for the game of DbD if it becomes normalized. This is a stalling, stalemate strategy and the only reason killers win by doing this is survivors give up and choose death (who wants to waste an hour on 1 match?) or the game ends after an hour and all survivors left are insta-killed. Some argue the killer is holding the game hostage because they are not trying to complete their objective (to kill) and substituting an unacceptable objective (to stall).
This scenario is only going to play out more and more now that it has been demonstrated by Hens on Youtube. It's already playing out too often.
The solution is simple; the Entity is impatient.
If the match lasts 30 minutes:
- If there is more than 1 gen left to be completed all survivors get Entity-moried and the game ends immediately.
- Any survivor who does not have 250 (pick a number) seconds of time worked on a gen after 30 minutes gets Entity-moried. (No you can't just hide all game.)
- If any survivors still remain, Endgame Collapse starts.
This would mean no game of DbD would ever be able to last more than a maximum of 34 minutes ever again. I think this is acceptable.
This would be a healthy change to the game to ensure both sides have to try to progress their objectives in the first 30 minutes of the match or face the consequences. Neither side would be able to effectively stall the game out.
The killer could try to lock down a 4gen to try to stall the game. I think that would be fine. A killer generally can't do that as long as 3 or 4 survivors remain alive.
Three gen strategies have been a core part of the game since 2016. Everyone who is not a noob does their best to prevent a 3 gen setup.
-
@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294111#Comment_3294111
Yeah, I agree that at base, entry potato-level, killer is easily stronger. But I think that power balance pretty quickly turns, well before you even get to the "average" tier of players. At the stage where all players are of average skill, I think the survivor side is easier, and this only increases as the skill of all players increases. At "top level" (in cases where all players are actually top level), surv is the power role, for sure.
A team of four legitimately good survs, even in solo, is quite strong, I would argue stronger than a similarly skilled killer. A team of four really good killer in SWF are bringing a gun to a knife fight.
And speaking for myself, I reached a place of competence on the survivor side far more easily than I did with killer (even accounting for the fact I started with killer and already had a fair base of game sense before I picked up survivor). And survivor is far, far and away the less stressful role. I don't feel that latter point is even remotely arguable.
And even though I think killer has the advantage at nascent levels, this isn't always the case. My wife (who is not much of a gamer), started playing as survivor and became passable pretty quickly, but struggled immediately (and mightily) as a killer, to the point where she gave it up.
"A team of four really good killer in SWF are bringing a gun to a knife fight."
Looking back at DBD somewhere around 2018 I had 3 friends who were amazing loopers. At the time I was not able to loop worth a damn compared to them but I was not a potato.
What I was able to do was be invisible. Some nights I could only be seen by a killer in one out of 4-5 games. Bear in mind that I was always the one doing most of the gens as they preferred to save and lead the killer on chases.
They were however stumped by Nurse (and later spirit). The funny thing is that I was able to loop both of those killers and they would watch me and repeatedly ask "HOW?"
I knew how to play Spirit and Nurse so I knew their weaknesses. One of them was Spine Chill before the 6.0 nerf. Spinechill was literally the Nurse's cryptonite as you knew instantly if she had the right angle for her blink by when your "cat" lit up. They didn't understand how I didn't look behind me in chases and I just gave up trying to explain how you could use Spinechill to tell you everything the killer was doing in a chase.
They kept me around to be the guy to do gens and get unhooks without ever being seen (back when the game had thick fog that prevented vision beyond about 20m).
I guess I was always a "natural born killer". That's the role I mastered first. I learned to be a survivor by chasing good survivors. I learned how to be invisible mid chase from playing against good survivors back in 2016 when we had the old Shelter Woods map. It featured a 76% kill rate even when infinite windows were discovered because there really weren't any windows besides the Shack. Largely speaking that map was hide or die.
-
@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294794#Comment_3294794
One of the reasons I main survivor instead of killer is precisely because of the attitude. I can play survivor for 9 hours straight and get no salty killers and a bunch of GGs.
I can't play killer for more than four matches without getting someone salty over literally anything as killer. Even inane nonsense like "Trash NOED user" in games where they didn't even finish the gens, or running a perk like Spies in the Shadows. Seriously, we are shaming the birb perk now?
It's slightly off topic to mention but SftS used to be an S tier perk in 2016. Birds were different back then:
1) They were all over the place and on many maps they were in the middle of tiles
2) Birds had a massive trigger that was somewhere between 8-10m. (compared to now where it is 0-2m)
3) ducking past birds did nothing in the past.
You're not wrong though that so many survivors are toxic to me for beating them. My favorite is when I kill the entire 4 man SWF team and they tell me I am trash. What does that make them? Are they dog droppings that I scraped of my shoe?
But to keep everything balanced and fair I see a lot of toxic killers and survivors no matter which side I play. As a rule I never T bag because I don't like when people do it to me.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294556#Comment_3294556
I dont care about the game Hens showcased. This was not the topic and there is 0 point in bringing that up.
You just dont have any arguments, this is why you bring up something which was unrelated to the topic.
Killers who refuse to try to kill Survivors and just protect their Gens without any intention to commit to a chase to get a down are holding the game hostage. And now I am just waiting for your proof of what some Mod said on this Forum. Everything else will be ignored, because you bring up unrelated things because you cannot proof your "point".
(Or, alternative - you can now write something and since you had the last word, you can think that you won this argument :) )
"I dont care about the game Hens showcased. This was not the topic and there is 0 point in bringing that up."
Today is the 13th which means that ranks reset. I wanted my free 1M BP so I had to finish getting to max rank. In order to do that I needed to win about 10 games. In that set of games I had many games longer than 15 minutes. The second to last game for rank one lasted over 30 minutes.
I am very interested in Hens and his game because it had a similar parallel to my game. I defended a three gen that lasted the entire game but was almost broken several times. The contest was held on Rotten field and the survivors blew out one generator before I was able to contest it. Twice I had someone hooked in the middle of my three gen. One person lost two hook states and their rescue cost multiple health states.
At every chase I was building stacks of Save the Best for Last. Any casual observer might think I was stalling but what I was really doing was buildup up my advantage. As Nemesis when I get full T3 infection I'm better so I need to build that up. I also use STBFL religiously so I need 8 stacks too. That takes a while sometimes. But once I have both you had better have the game under control or I win.
My final round for rank one this season was on "The Game" and it lasted well over 20 minutes. It's dumb but sometimes you have to chase until they drop a pallet and return to the three gen right after they break it. Eventually even that map runs out of pallets.
I shouldn't have two games that take an hour to play but that's the DBD world we live in. At no point in either of these games was I ever not trying to win. I wanted that 4k so I could get the double pip. And in both games people had made me annoyed with some garbage so I had decided that no one would survive.
-"If you go around, only kick generators, down survivors every now and then but only for regression and never hook, you are not progressing your objective of killing survivors. You are not progressing the game through hook states either. You are just taking the game hostage."
This is survivor main propaganda. If I hit you and drop chase but force you to use a medkit to heal then that's one resource removed from the map. If I return to find one gen at 90% and then stand there until they are all at 0% I am slowly depleting resources. If I infect you enough times as Nemesis then there will be no vaccines. If I get 8 hits while abandoning chases and then return to my generators I am progressing the game by building up stacks of STBFL. When I have 8 stacks if you have even the most minor misstep then I can hit you twice very rapidly. Sometimes in a 3 gen situation I can have 4-6 false chases before someone makes such a mistake and then I get a quick down.
"Killers who refuse to try to kill Survivors and just protect their Gens without any intention to commit to a chase to get a down are holding the game hostage"
This is almost what the moderator's quote said - you are spinning the truth with what you want to be true. I can hit people and only commit to leave my generators when they are all at 0% progress. I can only try to hook someone when I know I can down them before 40 seconds pass (because that is how long two people on a generator take to finish it with certain perks).
There have been games where I am holding a three gen and I am forced to let someone bleed out for 20-30 seconds at a time as I just don't have the 15 seconds to hook them. But you need to realize that me putting someone on the floor is an attempt to kill them - even if it is a rather slow and unsure method.
In both of the games I mentioned there were times where I had 3 people either on the floor or on the hook. In both games the survivor team was able to recover either by boons, the unbreakable perk or team heals.
In so many ways it sounds like you are saying : the killer isn't allowed to leave a three gen and come back before we finish one of the gens. That's exactly the reason to drop a chase. If I leave for too long I either need to be finishing the game and happy with the kills that will result or I need to go back and reset the three gen.
-
@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294556#Comment_3294556
I'd argue that Hens intentionally held that game hostage. His intention from even before the match started (he used the Dead Dawg offering for its 3gen spawn capability) was to try and hold 4 survivors in a match for an hour. There were multiple times when multiple survivors screamed from an Eruption proc and then were incapacitated for 25 seconds during which time he could have hooked the downed survivor and still have kept his 3gen. He chose not to, and he only got 1 hook the entire match.
However, I don't think this strategy should be bannable. In current DbD it is a valid strategy that can result in a 4k after an hour and there is no clear rule stating that this is against the rules.
I just don't think games of DbD should be able to even last an hour or this strategy shouldn't be viable at all.
"However, I don't think this strategy should be bannable."
If DBD gets changed so that you're not allowed to drag the game out for the purpose of winning then it makes so many killers less viable. Any killer that relies on M1 to down is essentially garbage if you can run the gens in 4 minutes. Any team worth a damn will be able to loop you for 4-6 minutes. People hated playing against pop because 6-9 pops was 2-3 minutes longer to finish all the generators.
There is a part in Hens video where he says this is my side of the map and that side is yours. This reflects a poor game design element where we have come to a point where the killer must rely on 3 gen and tunneling tactics. Gens are too fast. toolboxes are too strong. We have too many perks that can rapidly make gens take less time.
The devs proclaimed that +10 seconds to generator completion time meant that killers don't need to use gen regression perks. Nothing could be further from the truth given all the ways survivors can rush gens.
I will be the first in line to ask for tunneling to be removed - as long as it applies to both sides. Survivors should not need to be tunneled out for the killer to have a chance to win. Generators should not be anywhere near as easy to tunnel out as they are now. It doesn't matter when you play Blight or Nurse as almost any combination of gens is a "3 gen" but on most of the other killers you must keep three gens close together if you want to try to guard them.
@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294382#Comment_3294382
"What exactly are killers not allowed to do?"
I feel like every day there's another thread on these forums screaming about something Killers do that needs to be stopped. Camping needs to be stopped. Tunnelling needs to be stopped. Slugging needs to be stopped. Every perk Survivors don't like needs to be stopped. 3 genning needs to be stopped. It's CREEPY to me how everything wrong with the game is apparently the Killer's fault, while Survivors hide behind the weird defense of "If when a Killer does Y, it takes me out of the game!" as if that isn't his freaking JOB. But at the same time everything a Survivor does is defended with "It's part of the game". This, however, doesn't translate to Killer gameplay.
AND I AM NOT EVEN A KILLER MAIN.
It's just exhausting to see day in and day out. Next week there will be another thing that BHVR needs to fix regarding Killers because it is "unhealthy" for the game.
-"But at the same time everything a Survivor does is defended with "It's part of the game". This, however, doesn't translate to Killer gameplay."
Most people only really think about one side of the game in regards to fun and balance. And while this goes for both sides - most of the offenders I see are survivors (since mathematically survivors are 4/5ths of the players in any game).
It's nice to see that at least one person is looking at both sides of the game.
@barsw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294112#Comment_3294112
If they nerf speed for gens and they nerf perk like provethyself mb on some maps they should cut 3-5 pallets probably a lot of killers will stop 3 gens and tunelling .When they start to think about killers who have no mobility then people who play as killers will be able to enjoy the game and chase and etc .Untill then 3 gens and tunelling 1 person as fast as it possible .
If you do some searching you can find a recent game where CMWinter plays against a "comp drop" squad who stomp him on coal tower. He's a great player but he loves to play pig who becomes powerless at most loops. Do you remember how people were upset with the game before they relaxed MMR? Most people who got to a certain point were playing game after game against blight or nurse. Survivors need to be very careful or those will be the only killers that people bother to play.
It would be one thing if all the gens were a minimum distance so that any 3 gens was able to be defended by a regular movement speed killer. But that's not how the game is setup. SWF teams will almost always try to give the killer what my friend calls a "Y gen" which is the opposite of a three gen.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294541#Comment_3294541
Here is some spoonfeeding for you:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/1927000#Comment_1927000
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292294/#Comment_3292294
But I am very sure that you find something why it is not "holding the game hostage". Maybe some cherrypicking that Doctor was mentioned or that they mentioned griefing.
But there is 0 difference between a Doctor keeping everyone in Madness 3 without any attempt of downing them and a Killer kicking his 3 Gens with his Gen Regression-Perks without any attempt of downing a Survivor.
There is also not a difference between Survivors not working on Gens because they fear they would die and a Killer not commiting to any chases because they fear they might lose the last Gen.
But as I said, there will be some mental gymnastics why Killers are allowed to do that but Survivors are not.
Look at the game Hens played. He didn't refuse to kill anyone.
Stalling is not letting the game progress. If you actively go for chases and actually injure people and then rush back to generators - that's not stalling.
"there is 0 difference between a Doctor keeping everyone in Madness 3 without any attempt of downing them"
Using the Hens game as an example. He was getting downs and hits. He was not refusing to attack - which would be stalling.
-
If that update goes live you can look forward to 10-15 minute queues as survivor. Killer however will be instant queues.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294530#Comment_3294530
So you dont have any proof. Thank you.
This Forum is so funny - Killer is holding the game hostage by refusing to progress the game, but since this Forum needs to pamper Killers, the people here cannot just accept that it is completely BS that Killers prolong the game to the maximum time limit by refusing to chase Survivors.
Incorrect. The proof is on this forum. I can't be bothered to spoon feed you.
-
@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294480#Comment_3294480
- It's a cute idea, but it would be a lot of work for a very niche game-mode. The 4v1 APVP thing is sort of what DbD's identity is.
- The mic idea is impossible to implement, and I can already think of 4 easy ways to bypass it.
- Tomato tomahto. MMR was a lot fairer initially, but people complained bitterly about 8 minute queues so they relaxed it. It's still better than ranks though, even with me starting to (probably) push into higher MMRs on my Hag and Artist, and facing forum familiars and the odd streamer group.
- That protected MMR doesn't last long at all. And no, no it's not. Firstly, it's not once - it's basically a week. And secondly, it's a massive motivation killer.
Look, I get it. You used to have more 'fun' matches under ranks, because you're an elite player - due to the randomness - you were facing substantially easier opponents, and could just meme around and still win. That may be fun for you, but it's awful for everyone else.
Elite players should be facing other elite players. New players should be facing new players. Intermediate players...you see where I'm going with this. Because those are fair matches, as so far as this game can be fair.
"You used to have more 'fun' matches under ranks, because you're an elite player"
- It's really not like that. Imagine we played a card game called I win you lose. It's possible you would win but you don't know the rules so you almost certainly will not. This is a rigged game (and yes it actually has a list of rules). DBD is a rigged game as soon as you're no longer talking about randomly arranged solo queue players. Dbd is rigged even more as you move out of the "middle MMR" bracket.
It would be one thing if they refused to balance high level play and you could just "opt out" of the match maker. Your games would be fine and whomever you play with would probably not have fun. DBD shouldn't be a game where after X rank you can play less than one third of the killer roster and feel you have a fair chance of winning.
On some level it's like what the computer says at the end of the movie : War Games.
In order to attempt fair games I have to look at everyone's friend list to deduce who is paired up. That's a 3 man with lots of items dodge. That's two teams of 2 swf each and they used a heart locket - Oh no that always makes my game crash.
The reality is that dbd has balancing befitting a game you will play 20 hours and never play it again.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294526#Comment_3294526
"According to you maybe - but the moderators have said otherwise."
I am very sure you can show me a quote.
Do your own research. In the end you will find I am correct.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294513#Comment_3294513
"Holding the game hostage almost always requires the killer body blocking."
lol, no. This is just so wrong.
Survivors refusing to do Gens is also holding the game hostage, even if no bodyblocking is involved.
Refusing to going for chases and just protecting a 3 gen is also holding the game hostage. Again, no bodyblocking involved.
-"Refusing to going for chases and just protecting a 3 gen is also holding the game hostage. Again, no bodyblocking involved."
According to you maybe - but the moderators have said otherwise.
-"Survivors refusing to do Gens is also holding the game hostage, even if no bodyblocking is involved."
This is a failure of the afk bird system which is far too lenient.