CountVampyr
CountVampyr
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@Mr_K said:
Devs do not perform buffs and debuffs in sequence. This is to avoid two modifers from over buffing or over debuffing an action. The reason being issues with addon modifiers in the past. Everthing is based on the default value and then added together.
Say noise of pain is 100. That is the base value.
Iron Will removes 100%.
100 * -1 = -100
Strider adds 50%.
100 * 0.5 = 50
All buffs and debuffs are combined.
100 + (-100 + 50) = 50
Ending value is 50.
You’re just repeating what others have posted ad nauseum. And you are still doing the math wrong. You’re saying Iron Will “removes 100”, NOT “removes 100%”
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@sulaiman said:
If those were multipliers, the same principle would be used for everything else. Can you imagine stacking slowdown perks that way?
That’s another solution: Just add the word “stacks” to the description of both Iron Will and Stridor. If they did that then my issues with their wording would go away. When they say “stacks” with offerings I know exactly what is meant. I know that 3 Escape Cakes is only 300%. But that said, if you are afk and get killed you get zero points, and 300% of 0 is still zero. So the use of percentages in the perk description is still a bit troublesome, but I could ignore it easier if they just said “stacks”.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
I think you are reading to much into it.
You can read the perk discription both ways. You're just choosing to read it wrong.
While i agree it can lead to confusion it shouldn't be an issue anymore after the first post explained how it works
If a player needs to visit a superfluous site to understand, then it’s a failure on the game maker’s part. The description shouldn’t be making it confusing by giving “percentage” a different definition than actual mathematicians use. Words have meanings. Use them wrong and it leads to problems.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249746#Comment_2249746
You ended your original post with "discuss." I don't think people really know what you want from them, so they're replying the same way they would to any other post about this topic.
I asked "How should it be phrased to avoid confusion in the future?" I can only assume that because you didn't post an answer, it means you don't have one, so maybe that is the question you're asking everyone else to answer. But you didn't actually ask it: you just said "discuss."
If rephrasing the perk text is not the topic you want to discuss, then I'm as baffled as everyone else. It's unreasonable to be upset at people for not answering a question you didn't ask.
I posted an answer. I just didn’t directly quote the question.
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@CoalTower said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249746#Comment_2249746
Your post makes no sense.
We all know how it works, so there's no issues here.
Jesus Christ. There is an issue with the WORDING IN THE DESCRIPTION. My God. The only reason that I know what I know is because I looked it up. The way they describe it is completely misleading to those that know how math is supposed to work.
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@CoalTower said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249704#Comment_2249704
Not true. They explained it like this because you were acting like you didn't get how this worked. Most people know how that works without an explanation, much less a lengthy one like this.
I said from the get go that I knew how it worked, but none of you listened. You only hear what you want to. I just pointed out the way math is “supposed” to work. You’re the ones arguing against the way things are taught in school, not I.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249667#Comment_2249667
100% of something is absolute. It doesn't matter the number. If 100% is taken away then 50% of that value is added back, its still 50% of the total value.
Except that is NOT how it is worded in the descriptions. Again.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249657#Comment_2249657
Thats if they stack multiplicatively. I'm saying in this case, no percentages in this game do, they look at the base unmodified amount then add it all together. For example, let's say you had 3 buffs and 1 debuff that make changes:
+15%
+10%
+30%
-50%
There are multiple ways to calculate this. If you do it multiplicatively. It works like this:
100 * 1.15 * 1.30 * 1.1 *.5 = 82.225%
If you do it additively, then it works like this:
100 * .15 = 15
100 * .30 = 30
100 * .1 = 10
100 * -0.5 = -50
100 + 15 + 30 + 10 - 50 = 105%
I am saying, that DBD tends to calculate things additively, not multiplicatively.
lol. It’s funny how some you are going to such lengths to explain things when I know all of this. But just the fact that you have to do get that involved into is only proof that they need to rephrase it into laymen’s terms.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249633#Comment_2249633
Programming code is additive. Its why using old Tinkerer then using certain add-ons together in a certain way would give you a better benefit than reversing them. For example: Using a BNP on a Commodious Toolbox then adding a scrap would give you more charges. Here is how programming works (the basics).
Commodious Toolbox is 300 charges (just an example) and scrap is 20 charges. BNP is still 25% of the entire toolbox. Using the BNP would make the total charges left 225 because its 25% of 300. Now adding scraps so 245 total AFTER using the BNP out of 320 charges altogether.
Now 320 charges THEN the BNP has a new value to subtract from. Now the total is 240 charges total after using the BNP. That's 5 charges less than using the BNP first because the amount is additive. If you use an item that had 100 charges, an add-on that took 100 charges away but one add-on that added 20 charges, you'd have 20 charges total. Its additive for items, perks and add-ons in this game so putting a negative effect first then a positive one will always give a slightly better value.
Its like using a flashlight with a battery and a filament that reduces consumption. Putting the filament first increases the life of the flashlight but not the battery unless the battery is placed as an add-on first. It's just how coding works. It does each value after another. Put the battery first and it'll combine the battery life plus the flashlight life before reducing the consumption to give you a bit more flashlight usage total. Hope that explains it a bit better.
All of that is besides the point. It may all be factually accurate but the concrete numbers aren’t in the descriptions of any of those things. It’s all left to vague desciptors like “moderately increases healing”. You can’t argue with that. But 100% of something? THAT is going to be a problem!
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249607#Comment_2249607
Volume is x.
Iron Will = x - 100%.x = 0
Stridor = x + 50%.x = 1,5x
Stridor + Iron Will = x - 100%.x + 50%.x = 0,5x
Lol. Again, no.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/255347/50-louder-than-0-is-still-zero
That's not how the math works. Think of it as units of the base amount, rather than multiplicative. Let's say, base sound is 100 units.
Iron will reduces by 100% and stridor increases by 50%. So.
Ironwill = 100 - 100 = 0
Stridor = 100 + 50 = 150
Iron will subtracts 100 units, and Stridor adds 50 units.
When you add both to the equation, it works like this.
100 - 100 + 50 = 50.
No, this is EXACTLY how math works when you’re dealing with percentages. If you have 100 units of something (could be 3637875 in this case because the range is unspecified) and you lessen it by 100% you get zero. Now, if you try to add back 50% from zero you aren’t working with the original number, you are working with the new number, which is zero.
Again, to repeat for the umpteenth time, I KNOW what you guys are saying and what the developers intended. But it’s still wrong. You guys can keep repeating the same things over and over and over again and I’ll do the same. They’ve phrased it wrong and nothing you say will change that.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249607#Comment_2249607
Its how programming code works.
But I bet full volume is a concrete number, it isn’t just “100%”, is it? You can’t have 100% of anything until you decide upon a range.
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@Product said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/255347/50-louder-than-0-is-still-zero
Your doing the math wrong.
Normal Injury Sounds are 100%
Iron Will Subtracts 100%
Stridor Adds 50%
100% - 100% + 50% = 50%
Iron will doesn't "set" your sounds to 0%, it just reduces it by 100%, which is completely different.
Then you dont understand the concept of what reducing something by 100% means. Truly. None of you seem to. And it doesn’t matter what order you do the math in. You can factor in Stridor before or after, then end result is the same: if you are reducing something by 100% then you get 0, and once you get to zero you cannot add back a number that’s in percentage form. If you don’t believe me, try it on a calculator.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
You even said it yourself…. “Regular breathing and grunts”. That’s not exactly 0%.
From the description for Iron Will:
“You are able to concentrate and enter a meditative-like state to numb some pain.
When injured, Grunts of Pain are reduced by 50/75/100 %”
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
I... i... sigh
default is 100%
Iron Will does - 100%
Stridor does + 50%
100 -100 + 50 = 50
So 50% volume. Done.
Nope. The problem is that they’re using percentages. Percentage of what? If something is at zero you can’t just “add” 50%. Likewise, if you increase volume as Stridor does and then cut it by 100% then that is also 0, too. They really need to cut out the percentage crap because none of it makes any sense mathematically. You’re left to fill in blanks. Again, I know what they mean. I understand what they mean. I really do. But they’d be better off just giving us concrete numbers to work with. Just word it as points instead of a percentage. “ Stridor adds 50 points to grunts of pain”. Iron Will subtracts 100 points”. Done.
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@CoalTower said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249490#Comment_2249490
Sorry about the rudeness, but I'm getting sick of this argument to nerf Stridor. Instead of trying to justify it, like, this makes more sense, just give your idea for the nerf.
Making things stack in a multiplicative way would require the entire game to change.
I didn’t say anything about a nerf, I’m saying that if they want perks to have a specific effect then they ahould be more precise in their terminology.
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@GannTM said:
Well if it’s multiplied and the survivor doesn’t have Iron Will, they will have a 100x50=5000% grunts of pain. You’ll be able to literally hear them from the other side of Mother’s Dwelling if that was the case.
No, because 100 is a number that you can cut in half and add to it. You can’t cut 0 in half.
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@CoalTower said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/255347/50-louder-than-0-is-still-zero
Oh my ######### God.
How do people still not get this?
Things in this game stack ADDITIVELY, not MULTIPLICATIVELY.
Yes, 0x50 is still 0, but 0+50 is 50.
There’s no need to be rude.
As I plainly said, I “get” what they mean, but that isn’t what the description says. 25% louder than 0% is still zero. It’s simply improperly phrased.
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@Gay_Police_Dept said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2248921#Comment_2248921
Same, and some of them call me liar when i tell them that i was actually playing solo. Even when they see that i was running Bond, Kindred and Better Together. 🤷
Some people are just salty when they lose and prefer to believe they were outplayed because they were against a swf group rather than a bunch of randoms. But it really is obvious when its a swf group because the coordination is just too perfect and it just isn’t possible to cover up. Recently I got into a debate with a person that reported me for camping. I was a rank 19 killer playing against equal rank survivors that clearly should have been much higher. Immediately he pulled his friend into the discussion when I told him that, but STILL denied swfing. It was ridiculous. One of them even confessed that they get together on a weekly basis, but nope, NOT an swf group. Lol. Pathetic.
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It’s always funny to get threatened with a report for nothing against the rules. It happened recently when I hooked a person in the basement just as the final gen waa repaired and I stood at the top of the stairs and other players allowed me to reach Tier 3 Myers, making it impossible for them to rescue the guy. Honestly had nothing to gain by playing it any other way, but I guess in some people’s minds I should just go to the nearest gate that was likely already 99ed anyways or better yet to the far side of the map.
There was also the hilarious rage quitting Bubba that accused us all of gen rushing because he decided to ignore every gen he passed to focus on one person then not even be able to properly face camp (as Bubba!) without failing at it. That was the best.
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Most recently I got salty messages from a guy that died on a hook after I escaped and I had borrowed time. I could understand why he was angry, but even so, I was wounded and didn’t have self care or a med pack and didn’t really care much about trading hooks for a rando, if I could even make it to the hook before being downed. I didn’t respond back to him, didn’t feel the need to justify myself, but I still get sarcastic comments whenever I run back into him in other games. I find that pretty funny.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2248853#Comment_2248853
Exit gates and saying one kill can be guaranteed. Is not a good barometer for a map being "terrible for survivors"
A killer can literally hear you above of below them. But guess what ? Unless you're nurse there's nothing you can do. Unless you're a demo with portals or a freddy and they're near a gen. There's nothing you can do. There's relatively safe pallets in every room you go to that are big enough that you can look 2-3 times before you drop the pallet. Safe windows until breakable doors are gone. Midwhich is very survivor sided.
Except survivors often can’t tell which floor the killer is currently on until its too late. More often than not in matches I’m dealing with red rank killers and none of them seem to have much problem navigating that map no matter who they’ve chosen to play. They can see where the gens are located and often it can take a survivor a few minutes to even find one. Maybe the layout is a little frustrating on both sides, but the killer can still get upstairs from 3 of the 4 corners and quickly get downstairs from 2 other points. It’s definitely a killer advantage map. Ultimately it doesn’t even matter if the gens get fixed if the killer can adequately defend the gates, which he can with ease.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2248836#Comment_2248836
Midwhich isn't bad for survivors. Most killers have to patrol 2 floors with no easy way to get from floor to floor without teleports. It's fairly survivor sided when using most killers
Defending Hadonfield with shelter woods just isn't the right mindset. That's literally one map that isn't crazyly one sided vs the most unbalanced and unfair map for killers there is. And even -if- you want to continue defending handonfield by bringing up ONE map. That's ONE map vs Hadonfield, the game, 5 versions of badham, etc
On the contrary, even if the killer has a totally bad match, if he is even halfway skilled he is virtually guaranteed one death hook on Midwich just by the way the gates are situated. No other map I can think of does that for the killer with any kind of regularity.
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So what if Haddonfield is harder for killers than most? Shelter Woods is terrible for survivors because there’s no good places to hide or line of sight blockers. Midwich is bad for survivors because exits are fixed and too easy to patrol. Variety is the spice of life.
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If they automate banning based upon number of reports, then it makes sense to also look at the number of times a player reports on other players. People that abuse the report function repeatedly should be ignored or outright banned themselves.
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I’ve always thought that only 2 out of 3 perks from a survivor or killer should be teachable, and the perks that have a history of being used and abused should be locked to that character. For instance, only Clown could use Pop Goes The Weasel. He could swap it out and use another perk instead but no other killer would be able to use it. Same with survivors in regards to Borrowed Time or Self Care or Decisive Strike, etc.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2246929#Comment_2246929
We already have some of them being that way and last time I checked they did call them challenges..
And those ones take a lot longer to accomplish and are worth less.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2246784#Comment_2246784
Not a contradiction at all, if the challenges were general stuff that doesn't interfere with others like (do a generator, hunook survivors and stuff like that) those are challenges that don't interfere with the main objective, instead they have challenges that people prefer to do over generators or objectives and end up frustrating other people who do want to play the match..
If the challenges were just things that you would normally do within the natural course of a match then they wouldn’t be challenges.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2246261#Comment_2246261
Because your idea of fun is completely irrelevant to me, we all have fun in our own way, what may be fun to you may be frustrating for others, in my opinion the dev team should try to find a way to have fun matches without frustrating others.
You just contradicted yourself. If my idea of fun is irrelevant to you, then it is impossible for the devs to create fun matches to satisfy everybody. People are always going to end up frustrated somehow.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
I agree, tome challenges ruin survivor games, sometimes I see other survivors going for chests or to sabotage hooks, ignoring hooked survivors, avoiding healing and ignoring generators just to do a tome challenge, it's ok to do it for killer because you only ruin your own match but survivors not only ruin their own match they also ruin 3 other survivors, they need to re think their challenges to avoid this.
Why? Why does every game have to live or die depending upon if you work to escape or not? Yeah, I know that that is the primary objective, but if that is all that anybody cares about then every game becomes rote and boring and the player base would inevitably move on to other games. If I’m likely to die regardless it’s nice to mix things up. I don’t care if I escape or not. I care about whether the match was fun or not. In the two examples I gave in my first post, I escaped both times and neither one was “fun”.
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Killers aren’t any better. I was working on the healing challenge before bed last night and in the two rounds before I gave up there was a trapper that chose to camp right in front of the first hook for the entire time so the rest of us just fixed the gens and escaped and in the second there was a Spirit that was afk for ten minutes before disconnecting. I think they were drunk and fell asleep or something. Either way in both cases I couldn’t work on the challenge.
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@QwQw said:
I don't think so.
Myers and Laurie are both based strictly on Halloween 1, and the twist that they're siblings was only revealed in Halloween 2.
John Carpenter was also never really happy with that twist, either from what I’ve heard. It detracts from the idea and terror that his murder spree is completely motiveless and without reason.
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Last time I played The Doctor, I steamrolled a bunch of noobs super fast. One died on hook and the other 3 basically gave up and submitted when I caught them all healing together and knocked down two of them in rapid succession. I just shook my head at them and wandered off to let them get bps. One of them, however, decided to do nothing but hide in a closet so once I found him I tortured him for several minutes shocking him mercilessly until the others finished the gens. He couldn’t wait to get out. That was fun. I let them all live.
I also really like Ghostface because his ability to teabag makes him very expressive.
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@th3 said:
It doesn't count towards unlocking chests
Not anymore, but that wasn’t true during the last rift. I completed the challenge super fast last time because of Appraisal. I guess they decided that that would be too easy. Even so, with Plunderers and a few coin offerings I was still able to complete it in two games.
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I was at the Thompson House a few times in the last 48 hrs.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I run Spine Chill so I never get snuck up on by a stealth killer or someone with Tinkerer.
For me, it’s use isn’t so much about them sneaking up on me. I just like to know when they’re staring at me gaining their power.
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I always run small game because when I don’t I have to deal with Undying/Ruin or Devour Hope.
I always run Calm Spirit because when I don’t I have to deal with Infectious Fright.
I always run spine chill because when I don’t I run into Myers or Ghostface.
I always run Iron Will just because.
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@Babawizwiz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2235526#Comment_2235526
If they're not decent at looping, probably aren't good players to begin with.
I think the “falling left and right” part was the giveaway.
I don’t consider myself a great looper either, but I know the extent of my own limitations. I’m sure most people that post here can give great reasons to ignore BBQ, but that knowledge base doesn’t seem to transfer to the general public that plays the game. Most people just don’t know how to adapt to ground conditions. For instance, you may think you are a “great looper”, but if you come against a killer that is clearly out of your league then choosing to be the distraction is probably not the best allotment of your time.
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@Babawizwiz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/254112/why-do-so-many-survivors-ignore-bbq
Just gonna point this out
Survivors need to know when to hide in lockers from BBQ and when not to. I've seen countless survivor teammates who constantly go in lockers whenever a killer hooks, even when they are clearly not 40 meters away. Also good survivors don't mind the killers seeing them, that's why old OoO was broken. We gotta show off those looping skills.
If you’re a good looper then great, but when you’re in a match like I described where people are getting downed left and right, it’s painfully obvious that NOBODY is a good looper, lol! If you’re not a good looper, quit attracting the killer’s attention!
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@kisfenkin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/254112/why-do-so-many-survivors-ignore-bbq
Lol. You have to wait ten minutes?! Before cross play the wait time for us was ~30 minutes.
You waste a lot of time trying to hide from BBQ. I bring distortion, so I don't have to hide my aura at least three times. With that you can pretty much figure out every single perk a killer has most games. Tap a gen, oh look ruin. Finish a gen, there is Bitter Murmur. Survivor hooked and you are out of range, BBQ confirmed. Downed survivor makes you scream, there's the choir (to be clear distortion won't stop this). The only problem is that if you find someone with Nurse's Calling or the totem aura revealer you will see your tokens evaporate. It still helps you figure that information out though. I find that knowing for certain what at least some of the killer's perks are helps a ton.
To be clear, I don’t always try to avoid BBQ. If I haven’t been hooked yet I’ll stay on a gen, but if he comes to me within seconds that will be the confirmation for me. The only time I may jump into a locker without being downed first is if the gen is more than half done but less than can be completed in the time the killer can reach me. I don’t want to give the gen’s position away and there’s nothing worse than spending all of that time just to have it totally blown by PGTW or an active Ruin. Now that is what I call inefficient.
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@BSVben said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2234891#Comment_2234891
If everyone else is getting downed left and right, then it is imperative that the killer sees my aura. At least then I can loop him for a good while, to give my teammates a chance to reset, and do gens.
It also helps to spread the hooks out instead of the same survivors hook trading.
I don't know what rank/level of gameplay you are at, but at the the higher levels, stealthy play is absolutely the most inefficient style of play.
You’re not reading what I posted. I’m in red ranks as are all of the others. Two people fixing a gen in a corner as a person is hooked by a rank 1 blight with ruin in effect. Yeah. Totally efficient way to play the game. You’re still having half the group wasting time healing and by the time you’re done he’s hooked another person and on your ass again. The killer sticking close to the first hook for a little bit because he doesn’t know where everybody else might be is never a bad thing. Why make it out to be so terrible? It gives time for everybody to work on gens.
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@valvarez4 said:
If you read these forums killers don’t use the aura reading of b&c
lol. All of the killers I come across don’t post here then.
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@BSVben said:
It's really inefficient to hide in a locker when you could spend that time during a gen.
It also encourages the killer to leave the hook.
It’s equally inefficient in the cases that I describe. You need to be able to know when to hide. If there’s a rank 1 killer downing people left and right primarily because of BBQ and everybody is spending more time unhooking than fixing gens, smarten the eff up because you’re losing.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
A: Unless everyone else hops in a locker, it doesn't really mean much.
B: I want the killer to leave the hook and come after me if i'm far enough away.
C: If I hide in a locker, the killer might assume someone's hiding nearby and camp the hook.
Maybe. But if the killer is using BBQ consistently to get downs within seconds of a hook, I think maybe it’s time to change your strategy. Maybe take that ability away from him? I don’t know. It’s only a thought. Call me crazy.
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@StardustSpeedway said:
I want the killer to get away from the hooked person. I'm confident enough in my chase game to distract the killer while others go for the save and heal.
Yeah. But the match that I was just in all of the other players were in the same quadrant of the map with two working on the same gen. And when another person was downed, I jumped into a locker while another character conveniently began working on a gen near me just as the other was hooked. Lol. I can’t figure if these things are intentional or just stupid.
In solo queue, I’m more confident in my skills to distract a character than I am in other people doing the hook save. I’ve seen too many people hiding behind rocks mere feet away when its obvious the killer is on the other side of the map after someone else, only to wait until the second state before unhooking.
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It’s funny to me how big of a deal wearing this charm is, when in reality they are so tiny that I never even notice them on survivors. With killers they are a lot more obvious because of their hook placement.
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Played that map recently where not a single pallet spawned. It’s either too many or none, it seems. Hell of a glitch.
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Played a game as a rank 19 Myers againt swfers that were also 19 but clearly should have been red rankers the way they knew advanced techniques and map layout, with maxed out perks. One of them trash talked me at the end because I camped him in the basement after all gens were done and reported me for it, which was the only hint that he may actually be a new player.
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I use self care whenever I can spare the perk slot for it. As I play solo I often can’t trust other players and most rounds I’m either the last or second to last person left. It’s a lot harder to go for that hook save when there’s nobody left to heal you first.
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Tried it again, and didn’t focus on any obsession crap. Killed all four. Earned 3 iridescents and a bronze chaser. Still didn’t earn it. Killer rank is 19. Starting to think that it’s hopeless.