ChiSoxFan11
ChiSoxFan11
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@van9684 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/258536/was-this-one-of-the-changes-trapper-needed
Nobody likes the trapper. He’s annoying and gets free downs through traps while already being faster than survivors. Trapper, doctor, wraith, and ghost face are the og try hard killer choices and they all play the same.
Did you actually just call the Trapper a killer for "try-hards"?
🤔
🤔
🤣🤣🤣
I have to stop reading some of these posts while I'm eating. I'm legitimately going to choke from laughing. 🤣
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@MadLordJack said:
Every time someone says BBQ needs nerfed, I ask the same question: What would you rather killers use? Tinkerer? Thrilling Tremors? Distortion? Whispers? Please, name the far stronger, uncounterable or semi-uncounterable tracking perk you would prefer killers to use.
The short answer is that, the people who want BBQ nerfed are likely the same people that want Nurse's, Tinkerer, Thrilling Tremors, Whispers, etc. all nerfed as well.
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I've been playing more solo myself lately, owing to changed work schedules with members of the group I'd normally SWF with -- and to my pleasant surprise, the experience has been great. My escape rate (at Red Rank) has actually been better as a solo, surprisingly enough. It's a small sample size, but I've been getting out in probably 70% of my solo rounds. Some have been against overmatched killers, but a lot have been against really good Red Rank killers running meta builds.
I've chalked it up to a combination of really solid teammates (no idea if I'm ending up as the 4th wheel with 3-person SWF groups, or if we're all running solo) and playing more cautiously on my end than when I play as part of my own SWF group (where I think I tend to be more careless and pay for it at times). In any case, it's a reminder of when I first started playing the game, and it's been a fun challenge. Every escape has felt rewarding, more so as a solo than when I'm part of a group.
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During the 5 hours or so I played survivor yesterday -- almost every match against a Nemesis -- I had a couple of instances when Zombies pushed me/us off of generators, make hook rescues occasionally challenging, and even pushed me off of opening an exit gate.
It was hilarious. I couldn't even get angry, I was laughing so hard. 🤣
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2280031#Comment_2280031
I think the main problem is that even when a solid and good idea gets the spotlight, it makes little to no difference.
That's a fair point. As an example, something as simple as giving the Trapper the Brown Bag add-on as a simple QOL change is something that almost everyone (other than the most biased people) could get behind, and it's something that's been suggested forever (including by some very prominent names in the community whose opinions should carry a lot of weight about game design/balance) -- yet, somehow something seemingly that simple hasn't been done. That alone is almost enough to make you shake your head and wonder how it hasn't been done yet, and how much longer it might be before it gets implemented (if ever). And that's just one example.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2276170#Comment_2276170
Killer mains on this forum call anyone on this forum with a survivor-sided opinion a “troll” or a “sluzzy”. I recommend ignoring them, keep stating your opinion because fortunate for us, the developers take into account what survivor mains have to say as well.
If the developers are smart (that's up for debate sometimes), then they're IGNORING about 95% of what gets posted on this forum, particularly from so-called "mains" of either survivor or killer, who more often than not, are ignoring what's actually good for the balance of the game in favor of their biased self-interest, usually arrived at due to a complete lack of understanding of game mechanics from the perspective of their oppponents.
If they want feedback, there are some people here who have good, solid constructive ideas to share, and the hope is that the developers would take notes from them. But most of what's posted here -- the continual "change/nerf/etc. XYZ" threads are little more than a lot of noise than buries good ideas under the weight of the nonsense.
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I played five hours plus of survivor tonight, with surprisingly quicker lobby times than usual (due to a plethora of people trying out the new killer). It was games against Nemesis all night with the exception of 2 matches. I didn't get hit by a zombie a single time, even on the indoor maps.
I did get chased off of a generator once, and another time actually got pushed off of opening an exit gate (and had to go to the other one). It wasn't annoying or stupid or broken -- it legitmately might have been some of the hardest I've laughed during a game yet and was actually funny. I'm actually looking forward to the first time I get facecamped by a zombie (like I saw actually happen to people during the PTB) -- I might laugh so hard I'll forget to hit my skill checks. If and when it happens, I'll wear it as a badge of honor, lol.
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Console here. I have cross-play enabled, but when I play survivor, the huge, huge majority of the killers I go against aren't console (or at least, aren't PS4/PS5 like myself).
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It's not worth the perk slot, IMO. Too few uses to warrant a spot.
You mention situations where you're not able to hide in time. If you're caught in the open, move one direction for a few seconds, then double back to a different direction to throw off a killer's tracking as was suggested. Personally, I run Spine Chill, so that's a great indicator for me if a killer running BBQ is headed in my general direction, giving me ample time to move to a safer location/hiding spot.
As an aside, if Distortion had a way to replenish tokens -- let's say one for every safe hook rescue -- then it would likely see much more usage, but as it is now, I never run it, and as killer, I've seen it so few times, I could count them on two hands (with a couple of fingers left over).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2266990#Comment_2266990
If a killer decides to bring overpowered perk combinations such as Ruin/Undying/Pop/Tinkerer along with broken add-ons such as Mother-Daughter Ring, Wraith All-Seeing, Alchemist Ring, Clown Ether 15, they have ensured their own victory because these perks and add-ons provide the killer with a free win and cheat survivors out of a fair match. This is only compounded by the fact that killers can employ cheap tactics such as tunneling and camping to make winning even easier. Why should a survivor have to suffer through a match that will inevitably end with the killer sacrificing everyone?
The dc penalty serves no purpose but to keep survivors trapped in a hopeless match. Remove the dc penalty immediately.
"If survivors decide to bring overpowered perk combinations like Unbreakable/Iron Will/Dead Hard/Decisive Strike/Sprint Burst/etc. along with broken items like skeleton keys coupled with hatch offerings and Commodius Toolboxes with BNP's, along with broken map offerings like Haddonfield or the new Game map, then they have ensured their own victory because these perks and add-ons provide the survivors with free wins and cheat killers out of a fair match. This is only compounded by the fact that the survivors can employ cheap tactics such as sharing info via comms, bodyblocking, saboing hooks, and flashlight saving in groups to make winning even easier. Why should a killer have to suffer through a match that will inevitably end with the survivors all escaping easily and teabagging them at the exit gates?"
I assume you're okay with that approach as well, right? If not, you're a complete hypocrite. No problem with the killer DC'ing with no penalties the minute any of above come into play, and sending the survivors back to their 10 minute lobby simulator game after barely getting a chance to play the game? I mean, not everyone in the match is going to feel that way, but it's all about what one person -- you -- wants out of the five people who want to actually play the game, right?
Sheesh.
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@GannTM said:
Have you ever tried…you know…spreading out like efficient survivors? That counters Legion massively.
Exactly -- that's the single easiest way to counter a Legion. When you know you're against a Legion and they pop their power, you spread apart as far as possible from one another and avoid a cluster allowing them to chain multiple hits. Survivors that do that essentially rob Legion of their only power, and from there, it's just a matter of beating a normal M1 killer and whatever perks they might be running.
Games I play against Legion, while not particularly "fun" (they tend to be mending simulators, lol) do tend to feature far more escapes than deaths, and they're almost always games I pip up in and pile up a ton of BP. Losses against Legion when they happen are because our team screws up and are all together at the wrong time, or because or we're facing a REALLY good killer -- or both.
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As horribly biased and misinformed as their posts usually are, at least Sluzzy makes their inane takes on the game somewhat plausable and almost reason-sounding.
A Sluzzy, you are not.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The disconnect penalty should just be removed. If the killer is playing especially dirty and camping/tunneling/slugging early in the match, you should be allowed to leave the match with no repercussions. No one wants to play against a broken killer running broken perks and they shouldn’t be forced to.
Thank goodness you can easily avoid the disconnect penalty by killing yourself on first hook.
No recpercussions. Except for the teammates you screw over who might want to play the match out, not de-pip, and -- gasp -- who might have a chance to beat said killer if the match wasn't turned into a 3 v. 1 off the bat because your myopic viewpoint decided that what YOU wanted trumps what anyone else wants in said match.
Yep -- seems fair. 🙄 I don't play a ton of solo survivor -- it's to avoid players like you that I and so many others play in a SWF group as often as we can -- but when I do, I only hope to never have you on my "team", since that word is one you apparently don't care about.
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@Bullettimegod said:
This has to be bait. Cause i can think of 5 killer perks better than bamboozle.
Only 5?
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To answer the "How often do I win" against that, I usually play with a SWF group -- I've been playing more solo lately due to scheduling issues with my usual teammates.
Do I/we win/escape every time? Of course not. But I/we've had numerous escapes against killers running Ruin/Tinkerer (even paired with Undying). And we've lost badly to killers running those perk combos. That's to be expected -- they're strong perks. They're SUPPOSED to be difficult to go against. Just like when I play killer and I go against a team full of Dead Hards/PT/Iron Will/UB/etc. -- some of those matches I do really well in, and others I end up getting creamed because they're strong survivor perks and are supposed to represent a challenge.
Not balanced would be that, no matter how good you play or no matter what you do, it's nearly impossible to overcome or completely unfair in some fashion. There ARE ways to work around Tinkerer. There ARE ways to work around Hex totems. There ARE ways to -- gasp -- work around both and still survive.
People on both sides in this game want to always blame the game -- or the perks -- or the playstyles -- or the strategies -- of their opponents for why they lose, instead of realizing that it's often their own play or their opponent's that's the reason for the result. No one wins their match every time (even the best players). This game isn't completely balanced -- there are still things that can and should be looked at from both the survivor and the killer experience (Clown's Pinky Finger, for example -- I'm looking at you, lol). But the majority of the time, when a killer or a survivor loses a game, it's likely because they didn't play well enough to win, or because their opponent just played better. Too many people want to nerf anything worth playing into the ground (again, from both sides) instead of looking into the mirror and realizing that sometimes you get outplayed, and that's okay.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2264051#Comment_2264051
How often do you win against that? Winning one game doesn't mean it is balanced, the killer could have been going easy.
In my experience, it is a massacre because gens are regressing and if you almost have one done, here comes the killer. Then it is reset to 0. Its too oppressive especially against solos.
More often than you, apparently.
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I escaped as a Solo against a Rank 1 Blight today running Ruin/Tinkerer (arguably one of the BEST killers to be able to take advantage of that perk combo), and I wasn't the only survivor in the match to do so (and it was a gate escape, no hatch/key shenanigans). And in what I think might have been an all-Solo lobby, one of the players (who did die) was a Rank 10.
And I'm frankly a decent, but nothing special, survivor (Red Ranked, but that doesn't always mean much), who isn't the greatest at looping, so it wasn't because I possess some Omega-level survivor skills. If I can do it, and against a capable killer -- who wasn't a new Blight, and was also running Sluzzy's other completely "unfair" perk, BBQ (sarcasm alert) -- anyone with SOME level of skill at survivor should be able to do the same.
Just saying.
ETA: There's an old saying, "A bad carpenter blames their tools". That seems somehow fitting to use here.
Additonal ETA: Just rewatched the match I referenced above. The Map was Santum of Wrath, Yamoka. Ruin was broken in just under 90 seconds. A Rank 2 Elodie was dead 4 and a half minutes into the match, taking three of the first four hooks, and leaving a Rank 1 Adam (who lived) and the Rank 10 Steve (who died just before the last two gens popped) with me in what was essentially a 3 v. 1 for the majority of the match with 2 gens done at that point. My only hook state came when I tried to finish a gen in the Blight's face and got pulled off milliseconds before it would have popped. I did it again later and finished the same gen just before getting yanked. I actually finished the first 4 gens (both solo and with someone on one with me), AND broke the other 4 totems (hey -- Detective's Hunch for the win and the Rift challenge!) in the match. I was able to evade BBQ, and gens popped without being contested even with Tinkerer because the killer CAN'T BE IN MULTIPLE PLACES AT ONCE. Usually, a gen was done when the Blight was in chase with someone injured across the map, or they were in the process of hooking someone, or in the case of the last two gens, they popped in quick succession, and they couldn't defend both. So yeah -- is it a tough build to face? Sure. Is it this unbeatable nightmare some people claim. Simply put -- no.
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2259418#Comment_2259418
Agreed. If someone is going to spam their flashlight or run around bodyblocking and teabagging while I'm booping, that guy's gonna get it.
There's nothing worse than a "fake" Booper. I had a Feng once who approached me like they wanted to Boop, and when I crouched down to accept, they dropped a pallet on me instead.
Needless to say, that ended badly for them. 😂
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@Johnny_XMan said:
I heard console pigs do not allow boops. 🥺
Console here, and as previously stated, all Boops earn a free pass when I'm playing. 👍️
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I saw this spawn in a match on Monday. First and only time I'd ever seen it.
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My own experiences tonight -- taken as simply what they were, my experiences. Yours may obviously vary.
Almost 6 hours of killer gameplay, starting in late afternoon and stretching into later evening. I came in Rank 1, FWIW. I play more Pig than anything, and I would say that she's the killer I not only play the best, but that I am the most successful with.
I played the following:
3 Pig rounds. Again, my "best" killer.
3 Huntress rounds. Huntress I hardly ever play, and I have been learning her only recently. Over the time MMR has been collecting data, I've had 1 4K with her, and a ton of bad matches/4 person escapes/depips/
1 Wraith round. I've played a lot of Wraith since the rework, and I've done incredibly well with him.
1 Myers round. I'm a decent Shape player, but not ridiculously good.
1 Hag round. I rarely play Hag, though when I have, I've usually done well.
3 Trapper rounds. I'm an average Trapper. Decent enough when I play powerful add-ons, but nothing spectacular.
2 Nurse rounds. Much like Huntress, I'm practicing with her. Aside for 2 4K's the last two times MMR was a thing, every match against anyone decent has almost always been a depip/4-person escape.
1 Demogorgon round. I almost have never played Demo, but I'd like to give him a try. Almost no data in my time in the game that MMR could use to come up with a match, I've played him so little.
I play almost everyone, but I didn't get a chance to play Freddy (who I'm solid with), Doctor (who I'm okay with), Pyramid Head (who I struggle some with), or Ghostface (who I also do pretty good with normally).
If I had guessed how a properly functioning MMR would have matched me tonight, I would have guessed my toughest lobbies would have been Pig, then Wraith. Myers and Trapper would have had solid, decent, but not spectacular opponents. Hag would have been a wild card, and my Huntress and Nurse rounds should have given me relatively potato survivors. Demo should have, in theory too, since I'm essentially a brand new player with them.
How it went? It wasn't even consistent on the same killers, lol. Understanding that the "rank doesn't matter", I'll still mention it here for reference.
Two of my three Pig rounds were against Rainbow lobbies that played like it. I 3K'ed both matches, giving a mercy door in one and the last survivor found hatch in the other. In neither did I ever felt pressured, and I saw survivors do things that I would have expected yellow/brown ranks to be doing. The third match, however, I went up against a 4-man sabo/flashlight/Breakout squad that was one of the sweatiest matches I've had in a while. I got a 2K -- the two who lived got out hatch with a key, because, of course. The fact that I could have such divergent match experiences with the same killer literally a match apart made me skeptical already.
But everything else? My Wraith game was a slaughter, again with a Rainbow lobby that arguably played worse than their ranks. My Trapper lobbies were all solid ones, with arguably better competition that I had with Pig or Wraith (even though my skills with Trapper aren't as good, IMO, and neither have been the results over time). The Hag round I played terribly and still 4K'ed -- the rankings of the survivors didn't match up with their skill level. One of my Nurse rounds was on Hawkins, where I was completely lost -- the other was on the farm, where I 4K'ed against a lobby that actually looked like the ones I had in prior Nurse MMR games -- newer survivors who I could make mistakes against regularly and still do okay. My Myers round was against two Red Ranks/two Purple Ranks who played to my level, and that was probably the most "fair" matchup I had all night, for both sides.
The "shake my head" matches came when I played Huntress and Demo -- two killers I should, if MMR functions properly, have survivors who aren't going to be top-tier, based on my past results and play (or lack thereof) with them. All of those matches I had were against all-Red Rank (or close to it) players -- usually with multiple Rank 1's in the lobby -- who legitimately played like they deserved those ranks. My last Huntress match, I watched a Rank 1 Quentin play beautifully (like all of his teammates did as well) -- knowing where Hatchets could go and where they couldn't, conserving pallets the entire match, running loops effectively, and essentially playing exactly like I'd expect a Rank 1 to play. His teammates were all as capable. I was completely outclassed and knew it. The Demo match was even more inexplicable, as I ran across a team that destroyed my Ruin totem in seconds to start, blew through 4 gens in a little over 5 minutes (even as I'd gotten a couple of hooks), and ended up with a 3-person escape with relative ease. These were all really good players, which based on my complete inexperience with Demo, and lack of results with Huntress, I shouldn't have been seeing at all.
Overall, I felt like maybe three matches out of the fifteen I played actually had "correct" matchmaking (the sweaty Pig game, the Myers match, and the Nurse match I 4K'ed). Everything else was a confusing mess. I had better opponents playing the killers I'm literally learning and have done the worst with over the last few months than the killers I got to Rank 1 with and have beaten good solid teams with. Tonight didn't fill me with any confidence that this is going to work, but I'm going to play tomorrow and Friday morning (and see how my survivor experiences go) before I pass my own judgement.
Again, your experience may vary. This was mine.
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@Mekochi said:
Before you murder me, can I boop the snoot as my final request, I usually play Feng Min, and my gamertag is Nyxturne (on console so I can't really change it lol)
So this is if I ever encounter you in a match, this is my one request ^^
And for everyone, good luck with your following matches, you deserve it!
Edit: I also wish to boop Bunny Legions as well
No worries about dying -- survivors who Boop me always live! 😁
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@EQWashu said:
@Laluzi Yup, I've tried most every tactic at the beginning, middle, and end of the match, and it hasn't happened yet! I can get boops as survivor just fine, I honestly just need to play Pig a lot more to increase boop luck
@Hex_Llama I have had that happen as well many times, and I once approached a survivor asking for boops, and they crouched down, shook his character model "No" at me, then ran away. I respected it 100%, but was still a very sad Pig lol
I personally wouldn't mind seeing an update to her add-ons, and while part of her power is rng, I don't mind the level of rng she has.
I play a TON of Pig -- you'll get it eventually, lol. I've been booped in every way imaginable -- by survivors at the start of the game who assume I want to meme, and by desperate survivors late in a match who are trying anything to hope to survive. My Pig Code is simple: You Boop, You Live, no exceptions (unless you were taunting me earlier in the match and are trying to use it as a desperate escape tactic -- those aren't real Boopers, lol).
I start out every match aggressive and let the survivors dictate how "friendly" a Pig I'll be. The clip below shows me going after a Nea after an initial hook on a No Mither player (who I'd already mentally determined I'd let live if it came down to it at the end, just for the respect of them running the perk, lol). I hit her, but I sensed that she was trying to Boop when I went for the attack and I couldn't pull back. I waited and didn't follow immediately up, giving them the opportunity to (bravely, considering they were injured) approach for the Boop. The match turned into a farming fest -- it just took a little while to finally convince the last survivor, a Jane, that I was harmless (they were a solo, and told me afterwards they loved Booping, but didn't run into a lot of Pigs who played along).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJE62bTZCaE&list=PLC2rL4BtEvpu37EzsT36X2SS3vL2Igksg&index=55&ab_channel=GeriatricGamingGeriatricGamingSometimes, like this Claudette, the intent to Boop doesn't always get through, lol. 😂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t85BXYy5Sts&list=PLC2rL4BtEvpu37EzsT36X2SS3vL2Igksg&index=37&ab_channel=GeriatricGamingGeriatricGaming -
@C3Tooth said:
Recently I just start playing Pig, can someone explain how RNG of the traps work?
Example calling the 4 boxes A,B,C,D.
- Does each trap has RNG key attached to individual box? Such as the trap on your head must be unlocked at B box, or only able to unlock after searched a random number of box?
- If you see other 3 successfully unlock their traps at box A,B,C. Does it mean you can go directly to box D to unlock your trap?
I believe it works like this:
At the beginning of the match, each trap The Pig has is given a key to open it. Each of those keys are randomly assigned before the match to a specific box on the map (depending on how many traps you're using, and how many boxes are available). When a survivor gets a trap on their head, the key is already "in" a specific box -- so the randomness of whether they get it off or not isn't determined during their search, but simply by what box they go to. So it goes by your first statement. It's entirely possible for everyone to have their keys in the same box, or for them to spread among multiple boxes. The scenario you use in example #2 wouldn't work.
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@Darkskies said:
I'm just sitting here on the game giving out positive vibes much respect to my fellow fog traveling survivors as I try to hunt them .As survivor I'm saying GG checking out the killers builds making notes to try out later.
Always stated be the change you want to see I'm just one person being wholesome respective and kind but I hope those I meet in the fog appreciate it 💕🐷
You might be the single most positive, wholesome player I've had the pleasure of meeting in game. Your approach is definitely appreciated by this fellow Pig player. 💕
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@SoapNSpook said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2253570#Comment_2253570
You need to survive to the point of being able to use the key with the help of Left Behind. But it doesn't matter, a sole escape is still a lose for survivors, you killers will complain about something as minor as that
Do you actually -- you, know -- play the game? Left Behind not only requires no skill to run, it's one of the WORST survivor perks in the game, and whenever I look at the endgame screen of a match I'm playing survivor in that's not my being part of a 4-person SWF (where none of us run the perk, for obvious reasons) and I see a random was running it, I'm irritated -- much like Sole Survivor, the only reward for the person running the perk comes after your entire team is dead. It's a terrible perk for a game you need to play as a team to win, and it promotes selfish survivor play (don't take hook states, aggro, or ANY chances for your teammates in a game that's going rough at any point -- just try and wait it our for the hatch instead). I hated the Left Behind challenge in the Rift for exactly that reason.
No good killer will complain about Left Behind, as that essentialy gurantees the team you're facing isn't playing optimally -- but as someone who does play solo survivor occasionally, I absolutely will complain about my random teammates running it.
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@SoapNSpook said:
This perk is so annoying, every killer who can't play properly brings it to make survivors loose time doing nothing interesting. Someone will be found quickly since everyone would move towards the killer, that prevents any sort of stealth or ability from survivors to have any chance to escape
The perk does too much for a killer and it requires zero skill, it should be toned down and have less seconds. Too many killers bring it, it should ring a bell
As someone who plays 50/50 and pits in 20 hours a week at survivor, give or take -- I can't think of a single match I looked back and said, "Well, we lost because of Corrupt Intervention -- that perk is OP and needs to be changed." If you're thinking that, no offense -- the problem in your games going south isn't the perk.
So many killers bring it because there's literally so few options to keep the early game from blowing by stupidly fast at times, it's the best band-aid they can use. Scott Jund's video where he used the new Nemesis perk in a game -- showing the four survivors all essentially spawning within quick reach of four separate generators across the map, and one spawning literally on top of an exposed Hex totem -- illustrates why Corrupt is run as much as it it.
I don't run it except on a very few set-up killers like Trapper/Hag because I think it's largely overrated by people. GOOD survivors will simply stealth to uncorrupted generators and start working there, or wait out the Corrupt (usually, it's the former and not the latter, but both counter it). I've played many matches where myself/my team have watched the killer go by us to look around the Corruped area and we've popped one or multiple gens before Corrupt was even gone (ironically, usually with the help of one of those incredibly "skilled" perks, Prove Thyself, that simply required the incredibly skilled gameplay on our parts of two of us hopping on a gen together, lol).
Your argument that "So many people bring it, so it should be toned down" is a terrible one. By that same logic, Iron Will, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, and numerous other perks on the survivor side are run almost constantly and should get the nerf too, right? No -- of course they shouldn't. The perceived usefulness -- or the actual usefulness -- of perks related to the large number of perks in the game that are relatively worthless, and the frequency at which they're run, isn't a reliable indicator of fairness or balance at all.
And did you actually list with a straight face some of the perks that you did and claim they take "skill"? As a survivor who absolutely relies on Spine Chill, for example, in my matches, it takes ZERO skill to get value out of it. I'm sitting on a gen, SC lights up and stays on, the killer is headed in my direction and I move or take proper precautions. Where's my "skill" there, other than paying attention to my screen? I know how much SC helps in my matches, I know how it absolutely saves me against stealth killers, and I know my "skill" level when I play survivor -- spoilers, it's not THAT good. (For the record, I have no issue with SC and think it's a strong, but not overpowered, perk either).
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Playing as part of my regular 4-person SWF last night, we run up against a Plague. The match starts normally enough, except for the fact that The Plague went for their Corrupt fountain REALLY early. We pop a couple of gens quickly, and it looks like the match is going to be a rout. Then one of my teammates said, "I think the killer might be farming -- they let me stun them with a pallet".
As the only one of the group who plays any significant amount of killer, I put two and two together. "I think they might be trying to do the Roft challenge (hit multiple survivors with Corrupt Purge multiple times in a trial)." I get one of my teammates to meet me to approach the Plague and let her infect us, so we can cleanse and she can get another fountain to use.
It quickly became clear the Plague wasn't trying to kill anyone. We let her get multiple Corrupt downs, we each gave her a hook (I reminded my teammates of that, in case they were running BBQ, so they could get their 4 stacks), we all escaped and racked up large BP totals, including the killer. One of our group is on PC (which the killer was) and I had them message them to see if they were doing the challenge -- and they WERE, and they got it done and were grateful. I felt really good about it, and it was a perfect example of how, even if you're playing opposite sides of the match, it doesn't mean you can't have those moments when everyone works together for common goals.
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I had a match last night as part of a 2-person SWF against a Wraith. I spent a good chunk of the match running said Wraith, pallet stunning them several times, running loops relatively effectively, and avoiding going down until they abandoned chase with me. In between, I worked gens, healed teammates, etc. On the final chase, he did down me just as the last gen popped. I told my friend (who had been hooked twice and would have been on death hook) to open the gate (both were a decent way from where I was hooked) and go, because I assumed I was going to be camped -- which the Wraith did.
Was I annoyed that I was going to die on first hook? Sure -- but as I told my friend, I wore it as a badge of honor. I also figured that the Wraith, who got a total of 3-4 hooks max the entire game (and no kills at that point) wanted to secure at least one, and at that point, I didn't blame them for camping my hook to get it. After I died, I spectated a Claudette -- who had hovered near me but never made any attempt to rescue me, even when The Wraith strayed away or cloaked up again -- get downed teabagging near the exit gate, and The Wraith carried them to the exit, furthering my thought that I'd played well enough to cost the Wraith the match and was the one he wanted dead above anything else. Considering how potato a survivor I can be, that just made me feel even better that I'd "earned" the camping,
As an aside, the Claudette, after getting downed, kept crawling back into the map to try to get the Wraith to pick them up. It turns out they had Deliverance activated and also DS available, so they were trying to bait The Wraith into allowing them to use both (which also means they could have easily rescued me when they were near, but instead they were more focused on hitting the "cool" Deliverance-into-DS combo before they escaped above team play. If anything, their selfish play was more "unsportsmanlike" than the killer's was by camping me.
As others have said, the devs have stated what constitutes legitimate strategies and what doesn't. Just because someone doesn't like those strategies or think they aren't particularly fair, they're simply part of the game. The real "sportsmanship", IMO, comes AFTER the match. I didn't go on a tirade because I died after being camped -- I moved on to the next game. The people that pollute the post-game chats with raging/salt/insults and profanity and threats/slurs (which being on console, I'm thrilled to not be a part of it) -- THOSE are the people who are unsportsmanlike and should be the target of people's wrath -- not someone who clicked a flashlight or camped your hook.
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As much as I play The Pig, I feel like she's far better than most people give her credit for (she's usually at the bottom of most tier lists I see). I think she's in pre-rework Wraith territory -- a few QOL changes would make her much less reliant on luck and more lethal against really good survivors (not that she can't beat good survivors now, because she absolutely can).
I definitely see a pattern to my matches that go well with her and those that don't (I'm sitting at Rank 1 now with her, and almost every lobby I get is all Red Rank players, though obviously, there's a huge difference in skill level in players you find at Red Rank).
Matches that go well usually have me getting a down before the first gen pops, having at least one player dealing with an active trap that doesn't come off on the first box they search, (taking them almost completely out of the game), and moving on from there, hopefully getting downs (and more people trapped) along the way. Those games tend to see a couple of gens lost early, but survivor priblerorgerets stalls in the mid-game. I run Ruin, so if my totem actually doesn't spawn in front of someone to start the match, the combo of trap slowdown and gen regression usually allows me to get enough pressure to get it to a 3 v. 1 before things get out of hand.
Matches that go poorly for me usually have survivors who can stall me by looping very well and/or just running from pallet to pallet to waste time while gens are getting done. Those games see Ruin gone quickly, survivors waiting to pop gens until traps are off, or just terrible RNG with traps always coming off on a survivor's first search. When The Pig gets no game slowdown from trapping people and no gen regression (either from no Ruin or no other gen regression perks like PGTW/Surge/etc.), she's going to have a rough time.
I'd like to see a quicker crouch and her roar AFTER the Ambush Attack has started -- those little additions to help her stealth (which is the worst by far amongst stealth killers) and her ability to play loops better with the Ambush would be small changes but helpful (and make her more fun to play in chase -- the biggest satisfaction is playing a paller and downing a survivor with the Dash). A change to the RNG of her traps I'm neutral on -- I've just come to expect that there's some luck involved, and sometimes the traps just aren't going to do anything, while sometimes I'll get an unexpected head pop out of nowhere.
Don't feel too bad for us Pig mains -- we have fun playing her because ... well, she's the easiest to meme with, she's occasionally deadly, and she presents a challenge to play against a good team. She's no Nurse, but she's no Trickster either. I'm probably biased, but she's overall not in a bad place at all.
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I'll rarely all-out slug in a match. But it has happened. I played a pre re-work Wraith round against a team that all brought flashlights. Got my first down, and the other three swarmed me like moths to a flame trying to get a flashlight blind. I chased one away, the other two picked up the slug, but I had all four injured at this point. Got a survivor down again, downed someone coming in for the blind for two on the ground, saw another flashlight coming in so I slugged them, and when I finally picked up someone, the last flashlight user came in for an unsuccessful blind and I downed them immediately after I hooked the person I was carrying.
All of that took literally less than a minute in a match that couldn't have gone longer than 6 minutes (it took a while to collect everyone down and get them to a hook, probably as long as the actual "match" went). I was in an open area of one of the old Autohaven Maps when I got the first down, so the survivors had angles everywhere that would have led to me getting blonded and losing the initial down if I'd tried to pick them up, so I baited the flashlights and went from there. If they wouldn't have presented me the opportunity by all being right there and all injured, I wouldn't have attempted to slug. Sometimes, when you play killer, you take the opportunities that are literally gifted to you, and this team basically begged me to do what I did by how they played.
As a survivor, I've been part of a SWF that's all ended up slugged together, and it's pretty much always a case of us screwing up big-time -- getting grouped together against a Myers in Tier 3 or a Leatherface who's sawed us all to the ground for example. I'm not annoyed with the killer in those cases, but my play (and my team's play) as a survivor. We're the ones making the tactical mistakes to hand the killer the win -- why would we expect them to not take it? Is it annoying? Sure -- but the annoyance is directed at myself for the screw-ups on the rare occasions that it happens.
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@BronzeHandModel said:
Hi everybody. My Wife started playing DBD recently. Wraith main...she got everybody hooked 2 times and killed one survivor at the end. Then someone said its a rule of Honor to let the last person go when 3 others already escaped. I mean.....really? Am i stupid or are the survivors getting more and more toxic? When i play survivor, i never complain when im the only one getting killed?
What do you think?
Your wife could have told them that the "Rule of Honor" states that, should all survivors be headed for an escape, one survivor should willingly die so that the killer doesn't leave the trial empty-handed -- and that everything had gone according to that code. 😆
(Seriously, though -- there is no "Rule of Honor", as others have said. It sounds like someone was salty that their friends escaped while they weren't able to).
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The first killer I played with any regularity was Myers, mainly because I loved the potential for jump-scaring survivors and being able to insta-down people (though, as inexperienced as I was, I wasn't using him properly at the time). I moved over to Doctor for a little while after seeing the impossible skill check build, and I thought he'd be fun to run, but I wasn't "maining" anyone in particular.
But one day, I played against a Pig and thought, "She seems fun -- I need to try her". A few matches with her, and she stole my heart away -- now, no matter what killers I dabble with, Piggie was and is my first true killer "main". I always gravitate back to playing her, and she's the killer I'm best with and understand the most how to use.
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I can't ever see myself running it, even if I were to play someone like Myers or GF, who in theory, might be the killers who could benefit the most from it. It seems like a perk designed for someone brand new to the game (which would make sense, if the devs are hoping for an influx of new players from the RE license), but the longer you play killer, you eventually begin to figure out where survivors spawn for the most part in relation to your starting point on any given map. The best killer mains I've watched play beeline to a location without hesitation, no matter what map they're on, and always find someone because they know survivor spawns like the back of their hand.
In the end, it's 7 seconds of use, then you're down an entire perk. Considering that some people in the Lucky Break thread are arguing that 45 seconds of that perk makes it unusable (which I disagree with, but that's a whole different debate), I can't believe a 7-second usage perk is going to see much play from experienced killers. Even Corrupt has its detractors, and at least with that perk you're getting at least 2 minutes of some value.
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I'm on the PS5, and while the group of players I have to choose from to SWF with as are all console save for one, when I play killer, the majority of players in any given match are crossplay While I know that there may be XBox and Switch players in that grouping, my assumption is that they're PC players.
I feel for my fellow console players who are still dealing with the limitations of the game on PS4.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2230528#Comment_2230528
I think the reason we aren't seeing it so much is because people don't want to dedicate two perk slots to escape a maximum of maybe 2 chases if they're close together.
Sure, that wasted time can win your team the game, but I think most players just want to use more interactive perks.
That's entirely possible. Iron Will is run so often though, for those players using it already at least, using Lucky Break doesn't really disturb their build.
When I'm not running LB, it's usually because I'm addicted to having Prove Thyself/WGLF in my build mainly for the BP gains they give you. If I could wean myself off of that and running Spine Chill, I'd likely be running LB/IW more often as well, probably in every build. Even if/when LB deactivates, I'll still get good usage out of IW for the entirety of the match.
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@ScottJund said:
This is probably the happiest I've ever been that a community does not understand how strong something is ever.
I couldn't upvote this statement fast enough.
As someone who plays 50/50 killer/survivor, I am absolutely THRILLED that I pretty much don't see it in the killer rounds I play. As I'm usually playing The Pig at Red Ranks, it's imperative that I get an early down to put pressure on the team I'm facing -- losing an early chase can be devastating for a killer like her that can't afford to waste a chance at early game pressure, and LB/IW is definitely something that could turn a whole game around if it causes me to lose said pressure because my first hit on a survivor ends with them vanishing into the ether without a trace.
As a survivor, I've played it numerous times (with IW) -- I am decidely mediocre at looping, but I've lost what turned out to be really good killers in chase simply by turning a corner. and breaking LOS. And even if the perk hasn't led to the killer completely losing chase, it will still buy me time while the killer needs to pick me back up again, often extending a chase long enough to get me to a safer area of the map and/or to allow my team to finish gens while that's happening, instead of me going down in a heap much quicker without it.
I've heard many content creators who play survivor almost exclusively at a high level talk about how stupidly strong the perk can be (paired with IW) -- and that doesn't count the number of killer mains who've seconded that thought. I'd take the word anyway of the people with thousands of hours of experience playing the game when they say the perk is strong. but my own potato self has seen it work well for me, and that's been enough to convince me.
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I loved the additonal part of this showing how a survivor spawned right on top of one of his totems, essentially eliminating a perk right off the bat as well. Insult to injury in this case.
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@bibibib8 said:
The 4k is a victory if 1 survivor escape its a loss i dont understand why people say a 3k is a win 1 survivor escape that mean you did a bad job in killing him because he is alive
In your viewpoint, maybe -- but for many, if not most people, that's simply not true.
Even in Otzdarva's 50 win streaks, he counted games where he let someone out via the hatch as a "win". Maybe you should jump in his chat and tell him how so many of his wins were actually "losses" and he apparently did a bad job since someone left the match alive, lol. 🙄
I've had many matches where I've had 3 survivors dead at the 3-4-5 gen mark, and before I could get to it, the hatch literally spawned next to the last remaining survivor who escaped. In every one of those matches, I likely played well, pipped up, and took that as an easy "win" (if you can even define what "winning" is -- for every player, it's a different standard). If your only "win" condition is a 4K -- well, you're going to find this game pretty disappointing then.
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I'm on PS5, so I have had my messages turned off almost from the start of my playing the game a year ago. Ironically, it was a fellow survivor's profane rant to me about not going into the basement to save them against a face-camping Bubba that made me decide I didn't want to deal with people acting like a 10 year-old over a video game (especially when they're wrong, lol).
I DO get some nice messages from survivors when I play killer, however. If someone has really outplayed me, or if I've given someone hatch because of how the game went, I'll often message them afterwards and send a friend request (I record for YT, so I'll also offer to share the match with them to see it from my perspective if they'd like). I've gotten a lot of great interaction with survivors that way, getting compliments on my play, thank yous for sparing them, and interest to see the match from my end so they can see how to improve their own gameplay. The interactions I've had that way has led me to make a lot of nice connections with people, and I've even found people to SWF with that way as well.
I'm disappointed when I try to message a survivor to complement them and both their messages and friend requests are blocked, but I can only assume that they had similar experiences to what I had when I started and went the same route I did. It's a shame that the handful of people who are poor sports and immature individuals have to ruin things for the rest of us who aren't that way, but that's a sad byproduct of the faceless, impersonal internet, sadly.
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The words "Need" and "4K" shouldn't have to be in the same sentence. There is no "need" for a 4K under almost any circumstance. You can easily pip and get a ton of BP (and possibly even double pip -- I'm not 100% sure on that) with a 3K anytime.
I'll slug for the 4K when I have both of the remaining survivors within reach (and usually only if both are injured), or rarely if everyone on the team is super-close and I can get everyone down (like a Tier 3 Myers situation with everyone nearby). But if I have two people dead, a 3rd person down and ready to be dead, and I have no idea where the 4th person is? Yeah -- unless the team was particularly poor sports during the match, I'll just get my 3rd kill and make it a race to the hatch. If they get it, it's fine -- heck, I give hatch a good number of times anyway. If I get the 4th beforehand, obviously that works too.
If you're bored because you keep slugging a 3rd survivor to go looking for the 4th, only to continue to have to rinse and repeat -- well, that's on you. You're the one sweating in that case, and if it's causing you to not enjoy yourself, you can simply stop doing it, get the 4K's when they happen organically, and remember that not every successful killer round needs a 4K to be so.
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I've been trying to pile up BP, both in anticipation of the new DLC and to Prestige some survivors before then, so as I was playing killer rounds tonight, I brought BPS where I had them (in addition to playing killers with BBQ), hoping for some big rounds. I loaded up a round as The Pig against 4 crossplay survivors, and I wondered if they were a 4-person squad.
As the offerings go by, I see 3 other BPS besides my own (and an Escape Cake). 😮
I wondered aloud, "Is this group going to go super-try-hard, or are they going to see my BPS, see that it's the one killer the easiest to meme around with, and will this be a farm game for the ages?"
As we loaded on the Pale Rose Swamp Map, I headed across the map, and I was getting immediate notifications from someone locker spamming. I smacked a Dwight, who was circling around (I wasn't sure if they were taunting or goofing off yet). When he didn't run, I crouched and oinked -- and got myself a Boop. Followed by another from survivor #2. Then another from #3. And a final one from #4.
Needless to say, the BP total was huge for everyone. I got everyone two hooked, and everyone got a trap. I didn't want to do the trap and kill anyone accidentally, but they insisted, and even popped the final gen while they were all trapped to add some late-game excitement! I followed the Dwight around to keep his timer from advancing, and eventually everyone got their traps off. I led them to my Ruin and Undying totems (one of which was actually concealed pretty well).
Boops at the exit gate, I safety pipped at Rank 2 even with no kills, and I -- and everyone involved -- got massive BP in the match (I had a ridicuous number of Ambush attack hits, lol). Considering that as killer I've brought Gauteau Cakes before only to be blown out of the match in no time flat -- and teabagged at the exits by people who barely got any BP, the game went by so fast -- and as survivor, been slugged or tunneled out at 5 gens with Cakes and BPS brought in (and seen the killer involved barely get any BP by comparison as well), I'm sure the survivors in that match enjoyed our time in the Swamp as much as I did. If any of that group lurks here, this Piggie thanks you all!
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@spitfire2k5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2220757#Comment_2220757
I'm not saying it shouldn't matter and you shouldn't do other things but escaping should be largely more incentivized than it currently is. You should not go down in rank ever if you escape. Even if that means you don't get a pip at all.
It is REALLY difficult to de-pip if you escape. The only time that's ever happened with me is when the killer is AFK the entire match, and even then I've usually managed to safety pip (at Red Rank) by doing totems/saboing hooks to go along with the gen work. Doing ANYTHING against a live killer should get you a safety pip if you escape, as long as you contributed something (even if you just sat on gens all game). If you're depipping while escaping against a killer actually playing the game ... well, that's ... impressive, I guess? 🤔
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@Blueberry said:
Toxic? No
Sweating? Sure
Ironically the devs called mori's toxic in the anniversary stream. Quite odd.
My assumption is that they somehow were referring to Moris pre-rework. I don't know how anyone could consider using a Mori on a player who's on death hook anyway "toxic".
I played a game last night where I had someone dead, someone else on their second hook, and the last two players -- neither of which were on death hook themselves, IIRC -- keyed themselves out of the hatch (one had brought the key and the hatch offering). They left their teammate to die without even an obligatory attempt to rescue them -- if I were a dev, I would have called that (and the key/hatch offering to make it happen) far more "toxic" than a Mori, but then again, I'm not the first person to notice/comment on the apparent disconnect between the two in the developers mindset. And for the record, as I noted at the beginning of this thread, I don't consider either "toxic" -- while I thought the key escape was annoying and selfish that they left their teammate -- who was crossplay and likely not with them -- to die, it still wasn't "toxic", but simply them using a tool provided by the game to escape (even if didn't seem particularly earned).
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From a "possibly escape from them" standpoint, I'd rather face a Deathslinger. For whatever reason, I and my team have had better success against good Deathslingers when it comes to escapes than Huntress players. When we face a super-good Huntress, we get wrecked -- nothing like seeing a Hatchet coming from halfway across the map to down you as you're being healed by a teammate, lol.
From a fun standpoint, however, I'd much rather play against the Huntress. It's not quite like facing a top-tier Nurse, but it's probably the next best thing. The few matches I have escaped a Rank 1, God-level Huntress player have felt the most rewarding. Win or lose, a really good Huntress player is a challenge that's a lot of fun.
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@bibibib8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2222116#Comment_2222116
Mori are toxic the dev confirme that
If you think that a Mori -- only usable on someone who's on death hook -- is somehow toxic, then you're beyond reason or hope. The same goes for the developers. 🙄
ETA: SInce you apparently agree with that sentiment, the devs have also said that tunneling and camping are valid strategies. Should I assume then that you believe a killer who might tunnel you right off of first hook, ignore anyone else around you to down you, and then facecamp you until you were dead, would not be toxic either, since the devs have essentially said that doing those things are a strategy? Just curious.
If it were me, I'd consider the latter far more "toxic" than the former. But if your criteria is what the "devs have confirmed", then should I assume you'd be good with that scenario?
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There is nothing in the game -- perk or add-on -- that I consider toxic, from either side of the table.
When I play killer, I run against BNP's, keys, syringes, etc. all the time -- none of that is "toxic". They're simply game mechanics being used by the survivors to achieve their goal of escaping. Same with flashlight builds, body-blocking, sabo builds, etc. All of those are strategies in the game survivors can use to keep themselves alive and escape -- not toxic.
The same goes from the other end -- when I play survivor, nothing a killer runs -- even a Mori -- do I consider "toxic". Playing a Stridor Spirit, or you're a Nurse /Oni slugging away with Infectious Fright, or an Undying/Ruin Blight or a Tombstone Myers? All part of the mechanics of the game, and none of that is "toxic".
PEOPLE are toxic -- not the game, or mechanisms in it.
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@apathyinc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2218893#Comment_2218893
But a system like this probably was a priority of the community. I know I marked that it was in the community surveys they put out, because some of the community's player behavior is the top reason I wouldn't recommend this game to friends.
Designing a system that can detect when someone is doing a legitimate report and when someone is just spam reporting is something I'm sure the devs are taking into account. From what I've read, the uproar is from people who probably play like dicks and are worried that their actions might have consequences. Just don't break the official rules and you will be fine. I've played a bunch of games with reporting features, zero times banned, and I imagine I'll be banned zero times with whatever system BHVR implements in DbD.
Statements like this that make an assumption about the people who are causing "the uproar" and what their playstyle must be like is why people like myself -- and plenty others, apparently, judging by what I've seen and heard (I've heard at least one very non-toxic content creator call it a terrible idea) -- are understandably worried.
I don't play "like a dick" -- but who's to say that someone else doesn't see it the same and reports me for reasons unwarranted? I play as part of a SWF -- we had a Spirit who lost to us once who messaged a member of the group afterwards ranting on about how "unfair" the game was because of SWF (and just look at the posts here on a regular basis). As salty (and profane) as they ended up being, do you really think that they wouldn't be someone who'd be hitting the "report" button immediately, especially if they thought it would end up with someone getting banned?
I played a killer round two nights ago as The Pig against a small streamer and their friend (and two randoms, as it turned out). After a pretty innocuous round, I watched the match from their VOD later in the night to see what they said -- the friend called me "toxic" for putting 2 RBT's on them (I ran Last Will, giving me 5, so someone was getting 2 unless the game ended in a rout), the friend said I was "out to get him" (simply because they -- the only Yellow rank in an otherwise Red Rank lobby -- died first), and the friend accused me of streamsniping because, after a hook rescue of the streamer by the last remaining survivor when the other two players were dead, I downed both, hooked the rescuer, then waited over the streamer while the person I'd hooked died (the streamer had DS and they and their friend couldn't understand why I wasn't picking them up -- ironically, I was waiting to give them hatch and NOT waiting out the DS I didn't know they even had). The streamer turned out to be nice enough (I stopped in their chat afterwards to tell them GG), but if it had been up to their friend, my guess is the "report" button would have been smashed faster than you could say "unintended consequences" (their friend seemed new, so they get a pass on their misconceptions, but that won't keep people who don't understand the game fully -- see the people who still don't know how certain perks or add-ons work -- from making reports that have no basis for being made).
IF I had confidence in BHVR that things would be implemented correctly, MY concerns wouldn't exist. But in just the year I've been playing, I've seen the disaster that was the MMR's initial implementation, the disaster that's been the DC penalty suspended and reinstated due to issues, the disaster that's been bug-filled DLC's that had literally game-breaking issues released onto the community, the disaster that was the unasked-for aura change (that was quickly reverted) -- and there's probably more I'm missing. BHVR's past track record regarding things they've tried/done doesn't inspire confidence that they'll have a system in place here that will properly work, and your experiences aside, plenty of people have come out telling about THEIR experiences with ban systems that didn't work (a friend of mine who has a lot more experience playing online games has assured me that this will be a mess if it's implemented).
As always, the correct thing for BHVR would have been to wait until they had more details to share before announcing anything. Using the term "autoban" in their stream without any context or further information about what will -- and more importantly won't -- trigger an autoban was a poor decision, akin to someone yelling "fire" in a crowded theater because they thought they saw someone light a match from 20 aisles away. The unfortunate part is that, instead of people being excited for what looks to be a great 5th year release, many people are focused on THIS instead, when, warranted or not, these reactions would have been easily avoidable if someone in charge had thought first about the ramifications of that annoucement before it was mentioned.
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@Power_Guy said:
My guess is that it will flag an account after a certain number of reports, to be looked at by a human for a ban.
My HOPE is that people who abuse this system with fake reports will face bans, themselves.
That would be an ideal system. I imagine the report system, currently, is a mess of reports that shouldn't be made (like a cheating report on an all-seeing Wraith from someone who doesn't notice/understand the add-on for example) mixed in with reports that actually should be made (and we won't go into the uselessness of console reporting). If someone has been manually having to go through ALL of those, anything that can free up that time would be a good idea.
If there's not a real person reviewing reports during some part of the process, though, to make sure that it's not just people with sour grapes making reports over nothing, then there's a potential for disaster. I'd like to trust BHVR understands this ... but some of the things I've seen since I started playing the game makes me understandly nervous about that. 🤞
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Corrupt is best on a set-up killer like Trapper or Hag -- its value otherwise can be questionable. I agree that if you're seeing it in a lot of matches, it's simply because most killers need SOME slowdown at the start, at there aren't many options available.
I've played against a killer running Corrupt -- and I've literally spawned within sight of a gen that wasn't even blocked. It's easily worked around.