CaulDrohn
CaulDrohn
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"i wouldn't mind it, if this would happen only every now, and then, but right now more then half of all games (around 60% if i had to guess) are getting ruined by that... it´s super annoying."
That's just not true. I rarely encounter farming matching, and even rarer I see some when watching numerous streamers (which I do alot). So either you are exagerating madly or were just SUPER unlucky. Sure bots exists, but thats even rarer than farming killers in my experience.
"On top of that, it would be much more friendly toward new players who could get earn a few perks while playing with friends who explain them the game, insteadt of having to queue with them in the not-costum-queue, where they might end up facing a killer who is much more experienced AND has better perks as well... so the new player will probably only get stomped and die super quick every game they play survivor with a friend in the not-costum-queue, which they need to do, since there´s no other way to get some more perks after the tutorial."
Just teach them the basics in custom games and then switch over to normal queue, using a smurf account, so you all will likely get a new killer as well.
"Maybe i miss some other point, which justifies that you can't get bloodpoints in costums. If so, i realy would like to know."
It would drain the normal queue of players, since many play just for bloodpoints. Esp. with new players / brown ranks. It is already difficult enough at times to get a match as a brown ranked player, esp as brown ranked killer (may take several minutes to get a match). If many brown rank survivors could now play custom games to get their BP, the brown ranked killers likely would have to wait ages to get a lobby, and this lobbies will exclusively have players with a better rank (yellow or even green).
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And how does that qualify as a buff? Just entering a locker as legion alone serves no purpose whatsoever, it just wastes time.
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This was quite a common gen spot in the first iteration of the game maps. Then they changed the tiles someday, removing many dead ends, and it seems this spot got removed or at least really rare. Now that I saw your pic, I realized that I myself haven't seen this particular gen in a long time :o.
Yep, I had multiple occasions with two gens there, but that was some months ago. Guess it got patched out eventually.
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What is so difficult to understand there? If the game will end eventually, it is not taking hostage. So when one is slugged and bleeding out, it will be over in 4 minutes, no hostage situation. If the last surv refuses to do a gen, the killer can close the hatch, trigger EGC and let the entity kill him, no hostage. If TWO survivors refuse to do gens and hide all the time, that is a hostage situation bc the game won't end this way, the killer cannot trigger EGC this way. If the killer body blocks the last survivor without EGC running, he is taking the game hostage, since the surv cannot do anything to end the game.
It effectively boils down to this: If you would have to DC bc there is
no other wayfor you to leave the match, then someone is taking the game hostage against you. -
@Joelwino said:
Most F tier perks do something somewhat useful, monstrous shrine could be helpful in an extremely niche scenario. However, there is no situation where Furtive Chase would be useful. I tried using it for the hooking your obsession challenge since I didn't have nemesis. Furtive chase is a useless waste of time and I have no idea why it was even a perk to begin with. If you want to change your obsession just run Nemesis.
If you manage to get your obsession hooked, Furtive Chase is actually more reliable in obsession switching. I was doing the challenge with Nemesis and Furtive, and I only needed Nemesis for the first switch. After that, I always came back to the hook and chased the unhooker, since he became the obsession due to Furtive. Granted, Nemesis still showed me the aura of the unhooker, that helped quite a bit.
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@Rydog said:
I hate playing against a good Huntress, because someone with really precise aim feels unstoppable. Even if I can juke and dodge hatchet throws, I always feel like I am just delaying the inevitable. Iridescent Head + Infantry Belt makes this match-up feel particularly hopeless.
I hate playing against Cannibal because 95% of them are facecampers, and I am not exaggerating.
I hate playing against an infinite tier 1 Shape because he gives me a heart attack every time he comes around the corner.
I hate playing both as and against Hag, because her play style is essentially to proxy camp. I always feel dirty after I play her for a daily.
I hate playing as Legion because the character feels dumb and useless. The power is largely just an inconvenience, and I've always found it to be a pretty mediocre set of mechanics. Whenever I have a Legion daily, I just farm.
Regarding Bubba, I have a different experience. Whenever I face one, which is rather rare in red ranks, he usually is not campy at all (except gates are powered, of course) and chases whomever he finds. I play him like this as well, it's more fun than standing around waiting for someone who doesn't come.
About Hag, you don't have to proxy camp to get good results with her. Just manage your traps well and use every opprotunity to teleport to trps to injure someone. Spreading the damage is essential. It hurts her to chase survivors, better hop from place to place.
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It need not be a fixed camera, but why not limit it to a certain degree when working on a gen? So when you rotate your cam, it gets locked half way through to each side, so you have something like a 90^ blind spot behind you. That would give the killer the opportunity to sneak up from behind. And it would give the Point Emote some more meaning, when two people are doing a gen on opposite sites of the gen.
Or alternatively, whenever you look behind and you get a skill check, it auto-fails, since you didn't pay attention to the gen :P.
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@Decarcassor said:
There has been a trend lately of the devs being overly cautious with perk design leading to a cavalcade of interesting perks idea going nowhere because of how weak and/or restricted they are. And Demogorgon is kind of the poster child for this whole mess.
The cooldown on Surge does not make any sense, since it won't trigger on generators that are allready regressing. So even if you down 2 survivors in quick succession, the perk would only trigger a second time if somebody tapped the gens and then again it would only be 8% regression. I could understand if Surge had a small 5 seconds safety buffer cooldown like PWYF, but 40 second is complelty unnecessary. Meanwhile you can can easily regress a gen by 50% with PGTW you hook 2 survivors around a tapped gen.
But at least Surge does something. Unlike stuff like Mindbreaker, Cruel Limits (Cruel Confinement was cooler btw), Furtive Chase (by itself not for gimmicks), and theses are only the truly useless perks. I'm not mentioning all the lukewarm not good enough perks that don't see any use because while they could be technically usefull they just don't compare to the old reliable meta perks.
Played my first game with cruel limits yesterday, it actually enabled me a kill! We were on Springwood, a gen gets done and Cruel Limits blocks the notorius fence vault near the school entracne. The Kate didn't know it and ran there, trying to cut me out. Vault blocked, she was downed by my chainsaw (played Bubba). I was so delighted the perk was actually DOING something for me xD.
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"Honestly who even tracks by blood nowadays?"
Every komptent killer, maybe? How can you imply tracking blood is irrelevant, when thats often the only thing you can notice with stealthy players (running Spine CHill, Urban, Iron Will etc.). Or when it actually helps you keep track of an injured survivor in maps with bad visibilty, aka Corn Maps?
The fact that Lucky Break is so seldomly used is actually a reason for you to mind the blood trails.
"Calm Spirit: Offers no help"
For real, no help? It allows you to play much more boldly against Doctor and Clown, and protects you against Infectious Fright. That last one is actually a great threat with some killers, be it Nurse, Oni, Myers EW3. Yes it's situational, but far from useless. It clearly outshines other underwhelming survivor perks like Cameraderie, Sole Survivor, Slippery Meat, Up the Ante.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Except they're not used to "Help You Win."
Moris are used as "he he heee lol look what I can do he he he hee." Camp and tunnel after hook is a guaranteed with an Ebony Mori.
Keys you have to do gens in order for the hatch to even spawn.
Keys need a change to the hatch mechanic.
- Remove the hatch opening mechanism from Purple and Pink keys, increase their timer.
- Make addons to open hatch, not everyone uses keys to open hatch, I use Blood Amber and Prayer Beads.
Done.
Wrong. You don't have to do ANY gen to use your key, since the hatch will spawn always now! Take your key, Left Behind and hide the whole game, there you can use it. If you want to abuse the key for granting multiple people an escape, yes then you have to work for it (a bit).
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Close the hatch and let the entity kill him, where is the problem? Also, if he is glitched into, maybe he cannot exit it himself and is stuck. Since you can end the game by closing hatch and waiting EGC to take care of him, why should he DC then?
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@Onyx_Blue said:
@HPhoenix @CaulDrohn @Blue4Bane
You wouldn't be asking for the vault audio to be removed if you knew how to use it to mindgame a survivor. Clown can shut down Shack and many other tiles simply by mindgaming his audio. Would it come as a suprise to you to know that his vault audio sounds just like his bottle toss audio?
Sounds more like a silly excuse for defending a stupid sound cue to me, sorry. I see much more potential in mind gaming yourself when trying to pull this off. but what would i know, I rarely play or encounter him, so ...
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@LiquidLink1988 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1312683#Comment_1312683
That is a solid change! I would be down for the exposed status effect.
So it would be:
While the killer is carrying a survivor, you are exposed. If you take a protection hit while the killer is carrying a survivor, the killer drops the survivor and is stunned for 5 seconds. Once you take the protection hit, you become the obsession and remain broken for the remainder of the trial. The perk then deactivates.
I left the obsession / broken / only once part out to make it possible for you to use it more than once. I added the healthy condition to limit the amount of saves this way to three (under normal cirucmstances). Since you are acutally sacrificing yourself, i find it's ok to have in proc more than once in a match. And since you likely use one health sate, I feel putting another burden on you is not necessary (although being broken would probable not do much regardless, since you will be hanging on ther hook). The healthy part is required to avoid situation where multiple survivor with the same perk doing protection hit stuns repeatedly.
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@LiquidLink1988 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1311482#Comment_1311482
First off, love the idea for the Endurance Nerf; making the mend action required
Second, I can understand your point. It would be very powerful; but that is kind of the point. The idea behind my suggestion is to fit with Steve's character in the show. SPOILER ALERT he kicks the creatures ass and none of his perks reflect that.
I'll extend an olive branch here:
Once per match, While healthy, take a hit for a survivor that is being carried by the killer which causes the killer to be stunned in place for 3 seconds, Upon taking the hit, you become the obsession and remain broken for the remainder of the match.
If you still don't agree, I understand. I just feel Steve deserved recognition. We can at least both agree that the perk needs a change, period.
Putting even more stun opportunities, esp. some which can be triggered so easily, is not healthy for the game at all. The killer is already on enough pressure to hook fast, esp. when we want the killer to "play fair" and not tunnel / camp. If you want to addd yet ANOTHER way to deny the killer a hook, it should come with a HEAVY price. Being broken for the remainder of the match is not much of a threat for skilled survivors. And esp in End game it's no issue at all. Then your new perks degrades to just another safe escape perk. So I say, make the bodyblock REALLY punishing:
While the killer is carrying another survivor, you are exposed. If you take a protection hit while healthy (which will put you into dying state), the killer will be stunned in place for 3 seconds and the survivor he's carrying is freed from its grasp.
This allows you to sacrifice one of your hook states for another survivor, and would come in handy when the one you save this way would have been dead otherwise. Thats a fair trade, the killer can now hook you and the other surv gets a last chance. Or the killer decides to tunnel, bad luck then. But then he will waste more time chasing again instead of just picking you up for hook.
This could work to well with DS, I gotta admit. But it actively hinders mettle of man from working as long as the killer always accepts your tradeoff (you could only pull that off 3 times until being sacrificed).
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Yep, So annoying this "skill checks". The same applies to rogue skill checks appearing when just leaving a gen. Will explode in your a face without giving you a chance to hit it. The mind-bogling part here is, with OVERCHARGE it works! This skill check will be shown to you even when running away from the gen.
So why are there rogue checks you auto-fail bc of unlucky timing, when overcharge shows that it's possible to show the skill check even after the action is finished / aborted? So either display this last second skill checks like with overcharge, or let overcharge fail instantly when running away from the gen. Just be consistent here!
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Agreed. Clown has it already rough, and being the only killer with a highly noticable vault sound is detrimental to him.
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How long did they try to pull that off with three stuns? So hilarious xD
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@ZFennecFox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1229072#Comment_1229072
They can change the achievement other games have done this and I believe they could as well.
Yes they can, but only when it is no longer possible to get it at all (restriction from Sony / Microsoft). So as long as a key can open a hatch ,no matter the requirements for that, there will be always a possibilty to get this achievement, so Sony /MS won't change it. So even with key / hatch changes, it shouldn't be to hard to get the achievement imo. It's already stupid enough with the Adept achievements for killer, where you are punished twofold with better ranks (having to face better survirvors and needing more emblems to double-pip). Or Evil Incarnate, which can be totally denied by a survivor jumping into a locker. It's generally bad design when you have to rely heavily on other players to get your achievements. The 4-man-hatch escape one is already very difficult bc of that, since you rely on every other player there is in the ganme more or less.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1221060#Comment_1221060
Honestly, I think everyone agrees mori's need fixing, the problem is they can't be fixed as they are now. Moving them to 2 hooks needed makes them useless and usually slower than just hooking a survivor. They're either broken or worthless, so until they get a rework, nothing can really be done.
There could be a way in between. Something like you have to get 6 hooks to enable your red mori. And 3 for enabling a green one. This way you would also know as a surv when the killer uses a green one, if he did not have 6 hooks by now and still moris someone, it was a green one. And yellow one could just be a base power.
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"but at the same time we still have to put the work in for the hatch to spawn,"
If you are dedicated to take the hatch, you don't need to do anything ecept from hiding. If you want to escape with multiples throgh the hatch yeah, you have to put in some work. But the first gens are usually easy as well, it gets more difficult with the remaining. If you want to escape with one another, you can stop at 2 gens remaining. If three want to escape, then can look for the hatch when one gen is left. With organized teams it's really not that difficult to get to this.
And this situation, 3 survs and one gen remaing, is actually the glaring issue with keys. The killer will likely manage to kill the first completely when only one or two gens are left. If there is a key and the remaining survs work together (as swf), they will stop doing gens and search for the hatch for weaseling out. So when the killer finally manages to get in a real advantage, the key may just steal it again and end the game. How is that any fair? Yes wou finished 4 gens, but the killer had (usually) some work too to remove one surv from the gen. If the killer plays nicely, just as the survs want, no tunneling or camping, there is a higher chance for him being punished with this multi-man hatch escape, bc he will likely take a surv. out later than with tunneling.
"but aye only the survivor that has the key should be the only one able to use it alone."
Yep thats another solution that would work against multi-man escapes, make them more difficult. I could live with that too. This solution was proposed quite some times. But it has the drawback that it makes the 4 man hatch escape achievement much more difficult, since every surv would have to take a key with them or find one. My somewhat genuine idea does not really affect the achievement, the surv will just have to open a gate before they can jump through the hatch.
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@Chaoutzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1229068#Comment_1229068
In my experience of playing both roles, I've seen probably 10-15 times more mori's/broken ultra rares than I have seen multiple survivor escapes. I play killer when my friend that I play survivor with isn't online.
Absolutely, you will encounter much more red moris and annoying red addons than multiple-man hatch escapes. I myself likely had less then 10 such occasions. But, these rare instead really stick to me and make me really despise keys. Red moris are a pain as well, esp. when the killer tunnels for mori, an equally cheap move. But I find it way easier to brush that off, usually I'll have forgotten it already with the next round. On the other hand, multiple people escaping will nag on me for hours, because it's just so unfair and cheap imo.
Sure you could say now, it's so rare, devs should look into more urgent stuff. And I agree. But on the other hand, if it is so rare, it shouldn't be a big issue to just remove this bs occasions by changing keys accordingly. I think no one can really argue against this change other than there's more urgent stuff to be doing.
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@ZFennecFox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1228288#Comment_1228288
The premise of the hatch is an emergency escape route with makes utmost no sense if it spawns after the last gen. By changing the hatch spawn mechanic to spawn when 1 survivor is left alive gives the Survivor a fighting chance against a Killer who downs the second survivor and goes to look for the hatch. It balances key's as Survivors can't just tea bag on top of it it becomes an Emergency Escape.
I kinda agree with your premise, but then the 4 man hatch escape achievement becomes undoable. So it had to be removed / changed, and I doubt devs would go this far. Thats why I think my solution is so neat, bc it keeps the achievement intact without changing much.
Sure, your approach removes hatch camping and slugging to find for hatch. But it may increase slugging for finding the last one, bc the killer doesn't want to gamble for the last kill. May still be worth it, though.
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@Chaoutzu said:
If you're gonna nerf keys, then you'd better nerf ultra rare addons and moris.
I prefer the word "change" to "nerf". My suggestion does not change much for a single survivor or all survirvors escaping. It just removes the busted 2/3 man escapes with a single key. A thing that totally shouldn't exit in the first place. Hatch is meant as a last resort escape, not a way to ensure a victory over the killer in an unfavorable situation the survivors likely put themselves into (3 genning themselves).
Moris and certain addons should be reworked as well, but thats not the scope of my post, there are myriads of other post dealing with it. Sure there are also post about nerfing keys. But my idea seemed genuine enough to me to make a post about it.
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@slipttees said:
Mori and keys need nerf.... Maybe a time for 5 sec to open hatch em mori 2 hooks to finish survivor.
Yes moris need a change too, but thats not the scope of my post. A channeling action for opening the hatch won't fix my core issues with the key, namely 2/3 man escapes. See previous comment, I elaborated it there.
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@Dreamnomad said:
Statistically speaking keys are a non-issue. Key escapes make a very, very small percentage of survivor escapes. The one key nerf that I do think should happen is for the unlock action to take around 3 seconds. It is wrong for survivors to be able to open a hatch directly in front of the killer.
Statistically speaking you may be right. But still keys are despised by many killers. Some bring moris just because of it. Why is that so? I think bc of the real unfair 2 or 3 man escapes. Having one guy escape is just a nuisance, all four escaping is an achievement for the survivors (literally). But two or even three escaping usually robs the game from the killer, without any skill involved from the survivors (doing gens until the hatch spawns takes no skill whatsoever, also you could just wait for others to die doing nothing). And there's not much a killer can do about it. With the item changes, a killer has no way to get rid of a key during the trail anymore (franklins no longer destroying items). Killing the key holder will actually make it worse, the key is still in the trail (except the key holder got the respective addon of course) and the hatch will spawn sooner. The only thing that "works" is killing survivors faster than they do gens. But how realistic is that with well coordinated teams, the ones who actually will use the key effectively, the ones who will pull off the 2/3 man hatch escape more easily due to coms? Thats the reason someone equips a red mori when seeing a key. Totally understandable. When we change / nerf things because they are unfun to one side (see Ruin, see killer reworks), I see keys on top of the list (followed by red mori, btw). It's the worst scenario for me as a killer. Multiple ppl escaping through the hatch when you have them cornered feels so exceptionally cheated of my game. Like i wrote, one or all four escaping is fine imo, I just want to get rid of 2 and 3 escaping (outside of EGC), bc thats soooo busted.
To get back at your suggestion, a channel animation for key escape would just be a bandaid imo. It helps when you actually chase them to the hatch, it would prevent them escaping then. Granted thats also an annoying "strat" with keys. But it wouldn't help when survs just totally abandon the last gen for searching the hatch (given thea are only three left).
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@Brodie said:
I can see why killers feel robbed of everythin they built up, but killers are just equally as bad robbin a survivor of gameplay and BPS obviously too, and tbf ma soul leaves ma body when there's a 3 hatch escape... Hatch IMO should only spawn when ALL gens are done, key perhaps activatin if u've done a certain amount of work in the game by completion of 3 gens, and if u don't get a chance to get on a gen then tough sh*t
I can't really think of a situation were the killer can rob "everything" from the survivors nearly instantly similar to a 3 man hatch escape. Yes there are situations were matches totally swing to the killers favour in mere seconds. But thats still not as instant and it requires some very serious errors from the survivors and / or really advanced play of the killer. There's far more to it than brainlessly using a key.
Using a red mori is not comparable with a multiple man hatch escape imo. Mori matches are screwed from the start, you know what might be coming when you see a hidden offering. So you can brace yourself for a bad match. And BP will be lower for everyone, including the killer, so it kinda hurts the killer too to use a mori. Keys can be much more devastating for your mood as a killer. Esp. since surv can find them during the trial, so even when you dodge every lobby with a key, you still have to face a key usage from time to time. And survs do't get punished, but rewarded BP wise for using a key bc. of hatch escape.
Hatch only spawning after all gens are powered would be to oppressive. I think it's fine to give the last (but only the last!) a realistic way of escaping. Furthermore EGC was introduced to prevent taking the game hostage. Making the hatch only spawn after all gens are powered would reintroduce this, since the killer can no longer trigger EGC. Or he would need another means for it, like opening an exit gate even before all gates are powered. But that would have to be limited to only one remaining surv, otherwise killers could abuse it. Key only activating after certain work on top of having hatch only spawn after genns are done is complete overkill.
I think the combination of your and ZFennecFox idea would be alright, having the hatch spawn either on the last surv or when gens are finished. That would actually be quite similar to my solutions, with the difference that the hatch would be visible with my solution (but not usable).
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Hatch only spawning for the last means neither killer nor survivor can know the location beforehand. So keys effectively can not be used beforehand and only after the killer closed the hatch -> EGC running. That bit is strikingly similar to my idea. But it would introduce quite some RNG, when no one can know of the location beforehand, it's a gamble who finds it first.
I'm not sure if I like that or not. Surviror wouldn''t be able to camp the hatch and let others die anymore, and DC for hatch would not work. That sounds good. But on the killer side, such a change likely would increase slugging for 4k, since a killer won't be willing to gamble for the last kill when he can prevent it. Survivor won't waste time for finding the hatch in dire situations, maybe a good thing. But on the other hand it could feel just too oppressing. Maybe Left Behind could be buffed to show the location of the hatch before it spawns in this case.
I wanted to discard your idea at the first glance but I gotta admit, it has more interesting implications than I thought. Could be worth elobarating it further :).
Edit: One thing I forgot: Your idea removes the possibility for getting the achievement completely. So it either would have to be removed or somethign like the hacth always spawning when all gens are powered (like what Brodie suggested).
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No one else with an opinion?
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"In my honest opinion, it's good that they both don't work together."
I just recognized that we mean different things with the term "work together", actually the opposites. You seem to mean with it two things work in parallel, no interaction between them. I meant it the other way, two things complementing each other. That explains why it felt like we disagreed on things when actually we say more or less the same xD.
"This scenario is actually the best one you could get, since Off the Record will take over for Distortion, and than Distortion will be used on it's own for separate situations. If they both worked at the same time, than Distortion would waste it's tokens and than be left with nothing to use after Off the Record ends."
Now that makes so much more sense for me ^^.
"At the end of the day, I think that using two similar perks will only yield mixed results, since one perk naturally takes the lead over the other. Not always, but it really depends on what you're combining. This means that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. In this case... It does work, but the results are different from what you might've expected."
Yep, like using two exhaustion perks. Take SB and one other, you will likely always use SB, since it hinders every other exhaustion perk. That Distortion tokens are not uses while Off the record is active was really unexpected, but a welcome surprise :).
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I know the scratch marks will remain, maybe didn't state that clearly. I just meant the two perks work together when you look at the aura prevention. Or better say, do not compete. And I think the scratchmark prevention is the lesser effect of Distortion, you really want the removed auras with this perk, scratchmarks are just a gimmick. I bet a considerable amout of the playerbase is not even aware of this secondary effect.
You write combining the perks is more or less pointless. I disagree there. An active off the record means you don't have to make precautions for keeping your tokens. Take BBQ, the first instance is useful, bc you get the info the killer uses it. But with each next hook, you better hide in a locker or come near enough to not loose another token, since you only have 2 left. When you have Off the record up and running, you can just skip that and proceed with whatever you were doing. Or take Nurses Calling, the token will be spent informing you that the killer has it, but the 10s usually are not enough to heal up. With Off the record you can blatanly heal and don't waste your tokens as well.
I see Distortion as a great way for getting intel of what the killer users, so you can play around it. Or is tells you that you don't have to mind for BBQ and such things. The aura reading perks are usually quite powerful, so get a confirmation on what the killer uses (or don't uses) is really neat. Esp. when you have no other real way of knowing, like with I'm all ears or bitter murmur. And Off the record can help you manage your tokens. Is the combination esp powerful? Hell no! But I think it's working good enough for gimicky / meme builds.
Regarding the activation, I think it's not about the "strongest", but just first come- first serve. When Off the record is active, the aura is already surpressed, so the trigger for Distortion, the aura about to be shown, is not present, so no token gets spent. At least it lokks its implemented this way.
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1221497#Comment_1221497
Last man with a key. 1-2 gens done, you find hatch, close it, realize the doors are close to each other, go towards them, then the person escapes with a key because they followed you so they could find the hatch.
Yes, than can happen, even with my proposal. But I don't see why thats a big issue. Its just one person. Its far less frustrating compared to when 3 escaping while you have them cornered. You won't get your 4k, so what? You still killed three and won the round. The key won't make you loose, compared to the other scenario.
The only way to fix this as well would be to totally remove keys. And then Moris should go as well. But that'll likely never happen, and rightly so imo. Keys and Moris are not bad on their own, it's the lack of limitation that sucks. So just limit them more and it's more fun to go against it. or at least it does not suck so much.
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@Raven014 said:
No, I don't like that change much. Ive been robbed of too many people who just follow the killer then open the hatch after they close it. Even then it is unfair to the killer.
If you are reffering to multiple survs with a key each escaping each on their own, that would only work if EGC tirggered bc a gate was open. And then it doesn't change much. With my proposal it is not possible for multiple to escape when not all gens are done. Bc the hatch can only be opened with the key when it was closed by the killer before.
If you are just referring to the fact that the single last surv opens the hacth again you closed and escapes, whats the problem? You won't get your 4k alright, but you still totally destroyed the team with just a single person taking the "loosers track" to escape. And you even have the chance to prevent this by slugging.
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@Sylhiri said:
In addition to having it only work during ECG, you could always make Key's into offerings like Mori's. Each player would need to run the key offering in order to use the closed hatch during ECG (because it would close after each person). You can move some of the key add-on's to the map.
Of course Mori's should be adjusted so that we can all enjoy longer matches.
I think Offerings for getting the achievement is overkill. it is already difficult enough to get all four survs to the point where they can hop into the hatch.
Yes moris, esp red ones, are busted as well and should be adjusted. I just don't have anything new to add there.
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@LALYTHIA said:
"I can't think of a more "unjust", lame and unrewarded "victory" for one party. Yes moris are bad too, but keys will totally swing the outcome."
So will moris...and survivors have to do most of the work...killers have to do 30% of their work. Like, no. Just leave both of these items alone.
I disagree. Having to see three survs escape through the hatch when you ahve them totally cornered is so much worse than seeing your team getting tunneled moried one by one. The former does totally and instantly switch the result, from dreading defeat for the survs to glaring victory. It does not even punish the survs, it actually rewards them BP wise. The mori will gradually shift the power to the killer with each killed, but it can never rob you of an earned win on its own.
And I completey disagree with you claiming both are fine. They are totally not. Both Red Moris and Multiple Hatch escape due to keys are totally busted and unhealthy for the game. Thats why I made this proposal, to keep keys intact for single survivors and the achievement, but deny the really unfun situations for the killer with it. I would do a similar thread for moris, but since I have no genuine idea for it it would just be a repeat of already proposed solutions, which we don't need really.
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I added your post to the answers as well, I find the scrrenshots very insightful and not wasted at all. Again let me thank you for all your effort with this and the other question, I'm really grateful for it :).
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@FireHazard said:
Edit
I didn't realize that Mandy already tested this... So I basically wasted my time for nothing and added nothing to this. 😥 I was originally going to talk about the images below and maybe produce a recording if needed, but that isn't necessary now. I'm glad the OP was able to get a satisfying answer though.
I'm sorry that Mandy tested it faster and you feel your effort is wasted. It totally wasn't. Like I wrote in the other thread, I'm really grateful you took your time to test this out! And I believe your screenshots display the effect quite decent. I'll add your post to "Best Answer" :).
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Interesting! That Off the record trumps Distortion really baffles me, I would never have expected that! So the two perks actually work together more or less regarding the show-auro prevention.
Great, great thanks for all your effort, you and your firends put so much work into answering my questions. I would have never expected someone spending their precious time for my "stupid" questions. I'm really grateful and happy right now :D.
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Thanks for testing, but it's really no big deal. I'm feeling a little uneasy now for pointing it out, since I think the devs have more urgent things to look at than this ^^''.
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"I'll try to get you an answer, but it might take some time. I don't really see the point personally, but whatever."
Thanks for your effort :).
I tried to figure it out by using Distortion, Off the Record and Babysitter: Trying to unhook someone while being under Off the Record and still having a Distortion Token left. But I wasn't lucky as of now. One could also use OOO for testing, but that might drain the tokens too fast. I coulnd't test it in custom games, bc i would need two friends, and i only reached one.
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You are absolutely right, I meant distortion. I edited the post accordingly.
@FireHazard said:
I'll look into it, pretty sure it still masks the scratch marks because it's just showing you what the Killer sees, it's not it's own thing.
Yep, thats what I'm thinking as well. Would likely be easier to implement it this way, and / or the devs may not even have thought about this connection between the perks.
Yep, the perk explicitly states "to the killer". But when Distortion was added, Fixated didn't exist, so every scratch mark could only be seen by killers. The description just doesn't matter here. It all boils down to the actual implementation. Does Distortion only hide existing scratch "entities", or does it prevent them? It could be both, the first case could mean you see your own scratches during Distortion, the second would mean you don't. Like I said, it' just a small, irrelevant detail I'm curious about ^^.
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"It's a tricky question since your aura will be revealed on the hook"
Distortion is not triggered when you are hooked. Only when the Killer or Survivor use a perk that shows the aura to the killer (BBQ, Nurses, OOO an so on).
"they'll both activate at the same time"
Also Off the Record and Distortion will normally not get activated together, there is no perk that shows your aura after being unhooked directly (that would be totally nuts), it could just happen by chance (BBQ being used the second you are unhooked). It much more likely that your Off the Record is already active and then the aura shall be revealed to the killer.
For example, you are unhooked and then healed, and the killer returns with nurses. Does this activate Distortion or not? I think it would, since Distortion grants an effect that is not covered by Off the Record (the Scratchmarks Removal). Which I think would be a shame, but understandable. If Distortion had only the effect of removing Aura, but not scratches, and still a token is spent in this scenario, this would be aweful.
"having both perks at once is more hindering than helpful in my opinion."
That I can agree on ^^. I just stumbled about this question when I was thinking about Babysitter and using perks to prevent the killer from seeing me. Only these two can prevent this. But how do they work together? That I was asking myself ^^.
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@JnnsMu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1220897#Comment_1220897
They probably mean Distortion
Yep, I meant that, sorry :-(
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@DisappointedUser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1203667#Comment_1203667
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1203737#Comment_1203737
No you did not. It clearly says "Safe Hook Resuce" or "Protection Hit". You got a stack because the killer HIT you after the flashlight save. Not because of it.
Surely our observations can never be true bc. the description says otherwise *eyes roll*. Believe it or not, I got a stack with pallet stun, and I did NOT get a hit after that. Don't know if thats an error in the text, a bug or legit, it happened.
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I'm quite sure I got a WGLF stack via pallet save some days ago. About flashlight or head on save i don't know, though.
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@Snowstruck said:
Tell me if you agree, but please don't argue. Just tell me what you think in the comments on these, and tell me perks you think they should fix/buff/nerf/bring back!
Ruin- bring it back, please :(.
Deliverance- make it so it works if you're the last survivor.
Decisive- bring it back
Old Ruin? No, we are better off without it. I would even assume thet we just got this map reworks bc ruin is gone now. They couldn't possibly make the the maps this more threatening if old ruin was still a thing. Maybe the new ruin is even stronger with the map changes, bc survs are pressured more to do different things than gens.
Deliverance as last surv? Just why, the killer would then just wait for you to get into struggle. And even if you unhook, down you and wait a minute to get possible ds out fo the way. Thats just a massive waste of time.
Old DS? HELL NO! Did you ever have to face games with all four survivors having old DS? That was so completely busted!
Bugged Dead Hard? Thats the only thing I can agree, it needs to work reliably again.
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@toxicmegg said:
why don't people see it? removing most pallets and making windows super unsafe only leaves one choice for survivors: rush gens before the killer can catch everyone. it will be the only way to win this game. sorry but how are you guys so dumb you can't see it?? do you really want this game to become a M1 simulator? if all maps are gonna be like shelter woods then that's going to happen. have fun genrushing and killrushing i don't see this game as fun and playable after this patch.
please someone tell me this game isn't ruined because i am really scared it is.
I think it's the opposite effect. Right now, the first chases can be so awefully long bc of pallet heavens and strong loops, that weaker killers can easily loose 2 to 3 gens in trade for first hook. If the chases become shorter because pallets are removed and loops get unsafer, the remaining survs do not have so much time, need to help the hooked and thus increase the overall interaction between killer and survs. Which means fewer time to "gen rush".
If the change is to drastic and killers might now over perform i don't know. But I don't think so. If the survs are good enough, they can still loop a killer for some time withouth using many pallets or abusing god loops. Bad loopers are more screwed then. I had a game (on blood lodge) were I threw the game voluntarily just to see how far a survivor gets that's wasting each and every pallet he could reach instantly. He could run me for all five gens. Of course I did not chase optimaly, but destroyed every pallet on the spot. But i still think that should NEVER be possible, for a bad looper to stall the killer just bc pallets are so near to each other and so numerous.
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Congratz for adding nothing useful at all to the discussion. We were discussing why Onis power is not canceled on pallet stun, when others are. A totally legitimate question. No one claimed such a thing should happen.
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Yes stalking may be esaier, but if you can't hit them you have nothing it. And EW is still a limited ressource. I would say Myers gets weaker the longer the match, bc EW runs out. Oni gets stronger, bc of more interactions with survs and decreasing pallets.
I'm not saying Oni strictly needs to loose his power on stun. I just thought he would, and was surprised he didn't. Bc i felt it would make sense.
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@ClickyClicky said:
No thanks. I like my ez 4ks with no effort required.
A killer for ez 4k without effort, which is it, please enlighten me!
Even with Doc or Freddy I had some rounds where I had to really sweat to get a 4k. There is no such thing as ez 4k without effort consistently. If there is such a round once in a while, it's usually bc the survs were playing exceptionally bad.
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Hm Myers, you are right there. But Myers EW is limited, he can stalk only a set amount per survivor. Oni can collect blood from his victims without limit. It would be really unfair if MYers power could be cancelt via stun. Esp. since pallets can hurt him already heavily in Tier 3, making him loop and waste his power. I can't see this issue with Oni in Fury, he got melee and Dash for handling pallets. To actually get a pallet stun on Oni in Fury is much more difficult than with Myers T3.