Why does surge have a cooldown?
This is a confusing thing for me personally it just felt like the devs threw it on because it for some reason needed a cooldown? Infectious fright doesnt and i can argue infectious is more reasonable to have a cooldown since its very easy to down multiple survivors with it. Not to mention surge only blows up gens in your tr so its already got a few limits on it.
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There has been a trend lately of the devs being overly cautious with perk design leading to a cavalcade of interesting perks idea going nowhere because of how weak and/or restricted they are. And Demogorgon is kind of the poster child for this whole mess.
The cooldown on Surge does not make any sense, since it won't trigger on generators that are allready regressing. So even if you down 2 survivors in quick succession, the perk would only trigger a second time if somebody tapped the gens and then again it would only be 8% regression. I could understand if Surge had a small 5 seconds safety buffer cooldown like PWYF, but 40 second is complelty unnecessary. Meanwhile you can can easily regress a gen by 50% with PGTW you hook 2 survivors around a tapped gen.
But at least Surge does something. Unlike stuff like Mindbreaker, Cruel Limits (Cruel Confinement was cooler btw), Furtive Chase (by itself not for gimmicks), and theses are only the truly useless perks. I'm not mentioning all the lukewarm not good enough perks that don't see any use because while they could be technically usefull they just don't compare to the old reliable meta perks.
Again, its only 8% and does not trigger on regressing gens. It would be fine.
And the killer getting constant knowledge on survivors with infectious isnt? Down one survivor another nearby screams down him and you just got a easy 2 down. Also yeah its 8 percent and when a gens already blown up it does nothing.
Played my first game with cruel limits yesterday, it actually enabled me a kill! We were on Springwood, a gen gets done and Cruel Limits blocks the notorius fence vault near the school entracne. The Kate didn't know it and ran there, trying to cut me out. Vault blocked, she was downed by my chainsaw (played Bubba). I was so delighted the perk was actually DOING something for me xD.
I feel like if you're getting multiple downs within 40 seconds you're probably already doing well and don't need the extra boost.
So in this scenario you down two survivors and a third survivor is working on a gen, netting you 16% of progress removed from that gen, plus two survivors on the ground and you know one more is in your immediate area working on a gen that he can't possibly complete before you get to him? Now let's say you down him and you've got three survivors down and 24% removed from a gen. I don't see how all of that is really necessary.
[Plus if you use larger TR perks you could remove even more progress because gens are often close together. It would make 3 genning with Doc even more powerful.] Edit: you can ignore this because I forgot how Surge works
Meanwhile with infectious i can just link multiple downs easily as doc because no cooldown and max tr. So i could down those 2 survivors and the 3rd applying even more pressure than gens.
Surge isnt TR based. Its a fixed distance.
This runs counter to why they claimed to nerf Ruin though. They said they changed Ruin because it slowed gens for nothing, they wanted killers to have to apply pressure and “earn,” that slowdown. Yet here we are saying if killers do apply too much pressure they still can’t earn that slowdown...
Surge is a fixed range, it isn’t affected by terror radius. It also only works on basic attacks, so it would only be dangerous if the survivors were all injured together or just totally incompetent and unable to run away.
If three survivors all go down next to a progressing gen one after the other after seeing the killer has Surge, they deserve that 24% regression.
We'd need the devs to actually chime in to have a definitive answer. I think their concern was to avoid possible stalemates in 3 gen situations. That's why there's a cooldown and a basic-attack proc condition. Even if regressing gens aren't affected, it could potentially pile up fairly quickly without a cooldown, because the survivors would be stuck between letting the gen regressing or stopping it and getting slapped with another 8%.
It's a fair point. I had to take infectious out of my Billy build because it kinda got ridiculous at some point, I wasn't having much fun anymore. However, when infectious came out with a basic-attack condition, everybody complained that it was too weak (even that is debatable, honestly). There seems to be no middle ground.
I'm not sure what your point is. First of all, I'm not a dev, so their words are completely irrelevant to my opinion. Second, you can set limits on things players can earn, which the devs have already shown to do by making it so many perks do not work together or at the same time.
"If three survivors all go down next to a progressing gen one after the other after seeing the killer has Surge, they deserve that 24% regression."
Ok, and I disagree. It's unnecessary. And with those survivors down the gen will continue to regress even further. So even with Surge's limits, the killer is still earning regression by pressure.
Ok? Infectious only tells you where a survivor is. You don't gain anything else from it. And removing the CD from Surge would make IF even more powerful when combined...
For the last year or two BHVR has had a boner for arbitrarily slapping cooldowns on subpar perks and labeling them "balanced". Hey, works for MOBAs, SURELY it must work on DBD. They're basically the same genre, right?
Maybe it's a way of deterring people from slugging.
If a killer downs a survivor, they have to pick up, walk, hook and then find other survivors (or camp the hook, depending on personal salt levels). This gives a bit of time for cool-down.
If there was no cool-down, and a killer was to down a survivor (Surge activates) and then down another survivor straight afterward (in theory setting off Surge again), there would be big regression penalties in a very small space of time.
It could encourage rather disagreeable tactics.
My point is that it’s such a niche situation because it would be so pitifully easy to counter. Run away from the three gen and heal. The killer can’t proc it with an instadown and if they hit you, you can run away and deny it. Someone healthy can tap the gen, get hit and run away. You’d really have to screw up to let the killer use Surge on the same gen three times in 40 seconds, at which point it’s irrelevant because you’ve thrown the match already.
Except the devs are completely ok with slugging (They have on multiple points endorsed it and said to do it) and actively make perks centered around the concept. Knock out for example only has any effect at all if the survivor is slugged. Theyre actually coming out with a new survivor perk centered around slugging with the next update.
Right! And they do it for both sides, they’re afraid to make any more good perks it seems. I’m thinking Surge, windows of opportunity, I’m all ears
What disagreeable tactics? You down two survivors back to back and all nearby gens go down 16%, if you hit 2 gens that’s 32% which is barely more than 1 Pop goes the weasel. If you think killers would purposely let survivors off to keep downing them over and over that would be super inefficient
And let’s forget that it only procs on basic attacks... making it useless on like half the killers
I think I would be okay with one of these conditions but not both.
Because the devs had the misguided notion the perk would be strong..but it's odd how they could think that with such a minimal effect
It’s sooo sooo close to being strong, like if it procced from m2 attacks and grabs, with no cool down it may be meta
Maybe..but even then itd be iffy outside 3 gen strats
Yeah and other perks like infectious dont care as long as you down the survivor with a attack.
It doesn't deserve a cooldown. It's just another of the numerous examples that a completely unnecessary negative was thrown on a perk. Like 90% of the cooldowns on the perks we have don't even need to exist. They're just so afraid of a killer perk being too strong that they all end up in mediocrity and never seen again.
Right, infectious triggers from specials with no cool down and I could argue that it’s info is more valuable than the 8% surge proc. I know it doesn’t immediately do anything but if you can chain 2-3 downs quickly the game is over. I literally just made a post stating that it’s the most recent “meta,” perk just for that reason.
I agree, although I would say it applies to even survivor perks too. Look at windows of opportunity, it triggers a cool down when you vault. Knowing where vaults are isn’t game breaking and after enough hours you basically know anyways and drop the perk. So why not let new survuvors have it on all the time. Plus it had a stupid short range
Surge is bad in its current state
Yeah infectious definitely has more value in my opinion than surge it also goes by your tr so you can run it on like max tr doctor and chain into a 4man slug
also procs off grabs
Oh I agree, it applies to quite a few survivor perks as well.
I think. Keep the cool down, allow m2 attack trigger and have it effect the 3 closest gens to the killer. Like corrupt intervention.
Does it proc off going down from deep wound? (Ive downed survivors by them being insane+deepwound)
The devs prefer to make killers have useless perks where as they give survivors far better perks.
Look at the last two chapters.
They are scared to add to killer meta and make all their perks piss tier.
I like this, that would be 24% almost the same as pop without the need to travel and kick. But the cool down keep it from just overpowering pop altogether
This would be a good change as well.
Either remove the cooldown from what we have now or make it worthy of the cooldown with this change.
I'd rather keep the cooldown but make it also proc any time a survivor is put into the dying state. Be that a grab, a chainsaw, whatever. I still honestly like it as it currently is. Sooooo many games the survivors have not been able to get anything accomplished because of surge/pop combo.
I’m starting to like Surge, Pop and sloppy as a slowdown build on most killers. If you can injure and down people they slowdown... if you can’t catch them they end the game quickly. Rewards you for chasing well and punishes you for being bad as it should be
Not sure. I dont play much Doc and most ppl arnt stupid enough to go down from Legion's mending. (Some are, but I dont use infectous on him)
Ah mkay i thought it might be a funny synergy since you cant mend when insane