Brokenbones
Brokenbones
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905784#Comment_2905784
Not only that but I've also been seeing a LOT more artist players, I used to never see her but now there's always 1 or 2 a day.
I can't say I've had the same experience in game lately, haven't seen one in forever it feels like
Faced a lot of Sadakos and Myers today weirdly enough.
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I noticed 2 threads on Artist came up when Otz made his 50 win streak video
Coincidence? Or is my pattern recognition brain at it again
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If they don't want it, I oblige
No sense in trying to force it
Funnily enough though from my experience, Survivors almost never say no to the hatch/exit gate but Killers are far more likely to just want you to leave instead of taking a free kill. There's def a pride thing to it I think
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905659#Comment_2905659
Yes im not denying that they take too long to nerf some things. and that some 2 strong perks leave ptb. but then they nerf weak perks for no reason its like they spin a wheel.
The only possible explanations I can think of as to why some things do/don't get changes might simply be because of a 'wait and see' attitude, QA testers or maybe BHVR isn't aware how strong/weak something really is
I'm not sure, but you're right the logic behind changes seems a bit random sometimes - Parental Guidance is a good perk but the main way to get use out of it is pallet stuns and most good killers don't let themselves get stunned. Usually.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905343#Comment_2905343
Really? A 30 second search gives WimaTV, who put up a 410 in a row escapes streak. Mentioned in Otz's "Top 5 Mad Lad's" video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZlO-7fgJt4&ab_channel=notOtzdarva
Gonna make a prediction
This 'doesn't count' because
"He used SWF/Keys"
"It was Pre-MMR/It's old"
"Survivors were stronger then"
And
"All the killers were just bad"
Take your pick, which is it gonna be
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905639#Comment_2905639
but now they have nerfed it twice again and in my eyes it has become a good, but not op perk
I think it's perfectly fine in the coming midchapter
I'm more so wondering what their logic is when it comes to changes like this. Even in the PTB I think we (as a community) made it quite clear Boil Over was going to cause so many problems but it hit live anyway
But then you get stuff like Buckle Up which was useless and is still useless. Makes me sad
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If survivors are playing well, Pain res + Pop on one generator isn't going to stop the other two teammates who should be working on gens from making progress
Even with DMS, the killer still has to find a way to FORCE survivors to let go.
Don't stack up on gens and spread the gens out (Aka don't make it easy to 3 gen). The easiest counter to these two perks.
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I think I'm gonna make a more indepth thread on this topic at some point as I've got a lot to say on the matter of perk balance and the like.
Let's take Boil Over as Example #1:
It was a useless waste of a perk for many years, they finally decide to buff it and give it a secondary effect so overwhelmingly strong that not only did it have to be nerfed, not only did it cause RPD and Eyrie of Crows to be edited but It's also being nerfed again.
Now I want to raise the question, why did BHVR make Boil Over such a strong perk without taking into consideration how much it would be (and was) abused? Was it simply the case that they came up with the idea, made it work and just figured if it was too much they could just scale it down?
Personally I like that they were willing to take a completely uninteresting perk like boil over and make it actually do something, the problem is that the perk was:
A) Easily abuseable due to maps, other perk combos and coordination
B) Perks that cause the killer trouble with hooking are generally kind of unhealthy because they cause situations where the killer physically cannot hook you and has to bleed you out. DS doesn't count as one of these perks, as it's on a timer and it's conditional - not always active
Now let's take Buckle Up as Example #2:
It's a useless waste of a perk (As part of a money only DLC I might add) that has two effects that both do nothing. What did BHVR do to rectify it? Added 4 seconds to an effect that barely goes off. Disappointing.
I can only speak for myself in saying that, I wish BHVR would just take all of the garbage perks on both sides and re-do them from scratch.
(mostly applies to survivor perks though ngl, their good perks are so good it feels like there's no point using anything else, killer at least has some variety)
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Hook grabs are there to give going for an unhook in the killer's presence an actual risk to it, it can backfire and net you nothing. Survivors should learn how to unhook safely, give the killer a chance to leave.
In theory, this is perfectly logical, that's how it should be.
There's two issues that I'm not 100% sure of the solutions to
Killers who refuse to leave the hook until they secure stage two, without BT or DS - you either trade, farm or worst case scenario get grabbed and slugged. The counterplay to camping has always been "do gens" sure, but you're also letting a teammate essentially die meaning it's probably going to end up a 3 v 1 very quickly and you don't want that. As a survivor you want to spread out hook states as much as possible
The other issue is everyone's favourite "hook grab" minigame where the survivor knows they'll get grabbed, so they have to keep faking it and the killer knows if they go for a grab, it'll likely get cancelled and become a normal M1 instead causing a stalemate situation at hooks. I'm personally not a fan of this but like I mentioned earlier I'm not sure how to fix it.
The only 'solution' that comes to mind is something I think Otz suggested at one point, making only injured survivors grabbable while unhooking, like how medium vaults work. Would be a straight nerf to killer though and I'm not completely for it but it's an idea.
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At least she has to move to down and kill you ig, lmao
Also can I take a shot in the dark and say this killer had noed?
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We should start a movement
#MakeSacrificalWardsBrown
I'd burn one every game if I could
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@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902392#Comment_2902392
That was the last achievement I got, and I got it today. Years I had wanted that achievement. It was this achievement that made me put off completing achievements for so long because I thought it was impossible. Today when my friends noticed that I had all but one achievement left we made it our mission to get that achievement, and even then. The only way I got the achievement is because the Huntress we faced saw me complete the last gen instead of going for the hatch, and she was friendly enough to let me go through the gate so I got the achievement.
Congratulations! I can't imagine how many games people have to slog through to try and get it. It's really only possible if the killer lets you (Which techincally makes it possible, meaning it won't be changed)
I'm so glad when I started playing (When legion/plague came out), the achievement was bugged and you'd randomly get it just by being the last one to escape
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902397#Comment_2902397
Dead Hard is actually a requirement against a decent Blight and Nurse or else you die. Also about Iron Will against Nurse, if she plays correctly (playing reaction game and not prediction game) then it’s really not that strong against her.
Oh no i don't disagree, you're totally right
It's just I think DH counters their ability, that's why it's needed if you get me
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902373#Comment_2902373
Is there a meta perk that hardcore counters Blight and Nurse? No.
I mean...
Dead Hard, kinda?
I think Iron Will is also really good against Nurse since she can't track you through walls as easily.
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How did you get the fabled 'Left 4 Dead' achievement
did you luck out like myself and get given it randomly when it was bugged?
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@squbax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902356#Comment_2902356
Forgot to also inform, some people too refer to pokos hits as those hots that you land by the tip of the weapon.
Like those hits where you see the killer fully swing at you, it doesn't look like it'll connect and after a very small delay you get hit?
God I hate those sometimes
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@squbax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902340#Comment_2902340
It's basically a term for those laggy or weird hits that even you as a killer highly doubt should have landed.
Ohh right, those kind of hits
I get it now.
Many thanks!
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@squbax said:
I still play her religiously but I think its a little bit disigenuous ( I speak spanish this word is misspelled 100%) to say that she works just as fine against good survivors, ill say you can use the audio cue sort of like a red stain to mindgame, but at certain point if a survivor has good headphones and is good at the game those midgames will do nothing.
The only way you will catch them is in a dead zone or with a pokos hit through windows/pallets, even if you get a good phase wich a good survivor will have to mess up horribly to let you do they can just dh and dunk on you, still she is no legion or sadako per say so she is still above many killers.
Slightly off topic but I really need to ask
What is a 'Pokos' hit? Like what does it mean?
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They're more exciting because they have the potential to change multiple types of content at once
Buffs, Nerfs, Mechanic changes and tweaks, QOL and the occassional map rework. It's refreshing because it's changing content that might've gotten stagnant whereas newer content people seem to get bored with it quicker until it settles in and stops being the 'new thing' so to speak
They are the closest thing we have to 'health' chapters.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902216#Comment_2902216
I wouldn’t buff. I don’t really think she needs that much else. I’d rather just leave her alone so she doesn’t become “OP” again or actually devastating to play.
Maybe it's not 'Spirit is weak' but rather 'Current survivors are too strong' (Very contentious though ngl)
Issue is, how do you rectify it? We're getting the COH nerf next patch and the Dead hard change (eventually), what then?
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How would you buff Spirit, any ideas?
Personally I can't think of anything, aside from maybe an Iron Will nerf? Not sure how much that would help Spirit alone as opposed to helping the rest of the roster
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902198#Comment_2902198
Alright my bad, there is no dust but you can still see grass moving right ?
They might've removed that too, you used to be able to hear her footsteps as well
Most notably on swamp maps/indoor maps
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902184#Comment_2902184
You forgot to mention that you know exactly WHERE Spirit is when she is phasing you can see it (dust) and hear it around you. Meanwhile, if you are healthy, she has no idea where you are, and if you are injured with iron will, she still has no idea.
I am more of a survivor main these days, but let’s be honest and cut the cr*p : she is weak.
I didn't forget to mention it, my issue with spirit and what I'm glad was addressed was the problem with survivors having no information on the Spirit while she had almost perfect info on a survivor who was injured - turning it into a guessing game for the survivor. It still was a guessing game for a healthy survivor but while healthy you could be cheeky and get away with things like walking
Also you don't see dust, that was gonna be a thing but they removed it. Which is good because that would've been too far imo
You're entitled to your opinion on her being weak, I can see why you might hold that opinion even if I don't agree
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@darkcloudlink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902178#Comment_2902178
I totally forgot OBS existed. I'll definitely have to check it out. The only thing I'm worried about is just having to record EVERY single match I play, y'know? I liked GeForce because when it worked, I could save my last 15 minutes of gameplay if I wanted to. I didnt have to hit record and stop recording and then delete a bunch of video files if I didn't think the match was worth saving. It doesn't sound like OBS will let me do that, but I might have to suck it up and use it anyways.
I did a bit of searching, OBS has a thing called 'replay buffer'
That might be what you're looking for?
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@darkcloudlink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902178#Comment_2902178
I totally forgot OBS existed. I'll definitely have to check it out. The only thing I'm worried about is just having to record EVERY single match I play, y'know? I liked GeForce because when it worked, I could save my last 15 minutes of gameplay if I wanted to. I didnt have to hit record and stop recording and then delete a bunch of video files if I didn't think the match was worth saving. It doesn't sound like OBS will let me do that, but I might have to suck it up and use it anyways.
Yeah I think for recording all your matches it'll be annoying, there might be some ways you can customize OBS tho since from what I know it's got a lot of plugins and the like
I've not looked too far into it since atm I only use OBS to record cheaters
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902095#Comment_2902095
I am uncertain for what aspect of spirit's power is unfair in your first paragraph. Are you trying argue that your suppose to be untouchable in deadzone(a area of the map where no pallets/windows exist) to outplay the spirit? The killer counter-play is not suppose to be consistent. If the counter-play is 100% full proof, than ironically, the killer has no counter-play to the survivor's actions.
Spirits ran Stridor to neutralize effects of Iron will.
Survivor that did not run Iron will were unaffected by Stridor because they were already emitting sound without Stridor being used. In your version, Your believing that the spirit having any sound whatsoever is auto-win for the spirit. In that case, The spirit is still unfair for you and that changes did nothing. You never learned to play against Spirit in first place.
From my conclusion, Killer gameplay is not suppose to be reactionary. The gameplay is suppose to be mindgame based i.e prediction based and unpredictable. A big reason why a lot of the killers are weak at the chase is because a lot of pallets in the game either god pallets or safe pallets. The survivor can slide on reaction towards killer gameplay. Just look at a map like Gideon Meat Packing Plant with so many safe pallets.
Spirit's power changed the gameplay dynamic for survivor to be unpredictable. Now with audio cues, dominating spirit is trivial. Spirit is largely overrated killer now. Its why no one plays her anymore besides spirit-lovers like @TheGannMan
My whole post was a response to "just manipulate sound".
Also survivors who had no iron will were affected by Stridor, it made them even easier to hear, it made doing the little crouch technique worthless.
And no, I don't consider spirit unfair anymore - because I actually have something to work with. They have a sound cue (Me being injured) and I have a sound cue (Phasing). Whoever wins, wins.
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I use OBS to record
It can cause a bit of performance drop (Most notably while playing killer for me) but it's not super bad
You'd have to set up a keybind to start/stop recording which can be a bit of a pain but again it's not super jank. It's pretty good software and it's free!
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Ah
I see you too enjoy Benjo's antics
A man of culture you are.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902164#Comment_2902164
Yeah that explains the disagreement then, I agree with all that. Good talk lol.
Likewise!
Thank you for your time
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902152#Comment_2902152
"against really strong teams and the like I'm sure the audio cue does a lot more harm than it would a typical team"
This might also be a point causing our disagreement as well. Most people base their opinions on average DBD matches. Everything I'm saying is based on assuming top/really good survivors vs top/really good killers. I don't base any of my thoughts on average matches because to me average matches, while being average, are not objective in terms of measuring balance because it assumes the sides are making lots of mistakes and we determine objective balance by assuming by sides are using the tools they've been given to the best of their ability. IE I think the game should be balanced from the top down, instead of what we have now which is bottom up.
Might be one the things causing our difference of opinions since we may have different end objective points.
Exactly yeah
I think regardless of our opinions on balance, we both know fundementally the game's balance is really flawed and only two(ish) killers can actually handle the game when it is pushed to that 'high level' as you put it. I can see why somebody like yourself who prefers a more top-down approach would see it as a complete gutting compared to somebody like myself who sees it as a healthy change overall
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Nemesis has a base kit stealth ability
It's called the zombies who stand in corners completely silent until a survivor bumps into them
😱
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902135#Comment_2902135
Yeah we can agree to disagree that's fine. That's basically where this Spirit conversation has gone the last 100 times I've had it on her over the years. The conversations on the forums tend to repeat a lot.
I guess I just end up thinking it must be an MMR level thing because all the things I've said here today aren't really disagreed upon by any of the comp or high mmr players i play with regularly. This is pretty unanimously agreed upon. The only time I ever see push back is on the forums where the average forums goer is a much more casual player.
It's not that I think you're completely wrong or anything like that, against really strong teams and the like I'm sure the audio cue does a lot more harm than it would a typical team. You have your own experiences which I respect of course
Personally I try to look at these things from a broader perspective and I factor in my experiences into that a lot. I don't know my MMR or anything like that but I know I play against people who have thousands of hours, which like you said - people with thousands of hours might not necessarily be super good but there's a certain wisdom to it.
Neither of us play against clueless baby survivors/baby killers (hopefully) is my point.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902114#Comment_2902114
i know it's based on a meme.
I never said it was a solid argument, but with experience does come wisdom. I get your point though. Also to be fair, I presented many rational points prior to "just trust me bro" that went no where to improving understanding.
It's like trying to point out why swimming with great whites is a bad idea using multiple rational points. They may be good points, but if the person has never actually swam with great whites then those points may not make any sense. You can see my analogy.
I also wouldn't go as far as to say it's an argument from authority as in that case even the person without authority can argue the points logically. In this case if high mmr wasn't experienced for example, then the points won't make any sense to them. Meaning you have to have literally experience the points to understand them. Apples an oranges to say. DBD makes this a little different of a scenario.
It's like saying you won't be able to read the "empirical data" without being able to read english, with english being the high mmr experience. I get this falls back into some "just trust me bro" but it's just a fact. It's why for example trying to explain the games balance problems at high mmr to a newer player doesn't make any sense to them since they haven't experienced it.
I mean just to be clear, in case you're talking about me here
I completely understand everything you've said
I just don't agree with you.
And that's okay, I think.
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I wouldn't wish this kind of scummy behaviour on anybody, it's unfortunate that it happens
I hope you live a very long and prosperous life OP :]
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902092#Comment_2902092
I get your humor, but "just trust me bro" is someone with more hours in the game than more than 99% of the population. You can downplay it as conjecture but that level of experience isn't irrelevant by any means.
Playing a game a lot doesn't make you an expert on balance though tbh
Get where you're coming from tho, I have a lot of hours too. Way too many.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902006#Comment_2902006
Blueberry's entire post is saying that survivor's counter-play towards spirit is related to manipulating sound. You use sound to manipulate your location so that spirit has to make guesses on you as opposed to the survivor making guesses on Spirit. In some sense, he is somewhat arguing that loudness of the survivor has little impact on survivor's being able to extend chase against spirit.
The perks that affect tracking such as Iron will+Lucky break are unfair for spirit. They make the chase survivor-sided against spirit. They largely destroy what her gameplay is about. That is my guess for why spirit vanished after Stridor changes.
"Also again the information survivors have is limited, you hear which direction she is moving but not exactly where she is. It's still very possible to use it mid chase."
The survivor's information towards phase walk is not limited. It is in fact perfect. There is zero uncertainty in spirit's position in phasewalk. Survivor's gameplay towards current spirit is perfectly reactionary. The bottom line is that she is no longer invisible at all. The reason why they did not add dust is because it was not required.
As Blueberry says, The speed is all she has now. If she did not have speed, She would be among worst killers in the entire game. The speed is not worth it because she moves at 110% and her pallet/tileset play is awful against strong players. So yes, She was gutted, like most killers that face negative changes.
With old spirit you physically couldn't "manipulate sound" against her because while injured you emit constant loud sound cues that give away your position. People adapted to this by running Iron Will since it's the only perk that does anything about it consistantly (There are other perks, but they're conditional). You could also crouch which sometimes worked against non stridor spirits but it was very inconsistant from my experience as most killers know survivors don't just disappear
So Spirits ran Stridor to counter Iron Will which was being used to counter her.
And so people who didn't run Iron will were double screwed because not only were their grunts of pain still audible but it was even louder than before making "manipulating your sound" twice as hard, maybe even impossible depending on the circumstances.
Personally the better argument to make about old spirit isn't "just manipulate sound" it would be "just never be injured". Easier said than done vs old spirit tho.
I'm in the camp that she def needed changes. Whether the changes she got are "too much" is completely subjective. If the only thing that made her good was forcing survivors to guess then to me she was never a well designed killer to begin with. Thankfully, that's not all she was about.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901975#Comment_2901975
Tbh the Directional audio was good with the audio knowing if she was really phasing or not, but what wasn't needed was the distance audio knowing if she is getting close to you while phasing, it like tying a bell around a cats neck and expect it to catch mice.
Yeah you might be right about that, I never really considered it too much since I only notice it getting louder when I'm about to go down anyway (like when I'm in the open for instance)
The chase music usually obscures it for me 🤔
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902032#Comment_2902032
"It has relevance because the spirit has a lot of information when a survivor is injured, it's no longer equal. It went from "You can't see the survivor and they can't see you" to "You can't see or hear her and she can hear your groans of pain"."
The inverse is also true. You had all the advantage prior to being injured. That's fair.
"Giving survivors something to work with made this less lopsided and more fair"
No, it made it unbalanced and gave everything to the survivors control.
"In general Spirits had more information than the survivors did before her nerf."
If you didn't they wouldn't make much since as a killer would they. That's part of what made them strong.
"Facing a spirit without IW put you at such a big disadvantage."
Still very winnable if the survivors were even semi decent.
"I mentioned Ash not because it proves a point but because it's a funny example of how a survivor being loud just made it even easier for the spirit to down you while in phase.
You were being hyperbolic. Most survivors aren't that loud.
"You can argue I face "low mmr" survivors if you want, but my response to that would be: "I don't know and I don't care" because I don't know my MMR, I face survivors who are good at the game, that's all I think is relevant. Trying to discredit my arguments by saying I'm facing low MMR players seems rather unfair if you ask me but hey - it's your opinion you're entitled to it."
Facing higher mmr vs facing low mmr is a completely different game. It may seem like a simple way to discredit you but the mmr difference matters. High mmr Spirit gets looped pretty easy now.
Survivors make breathing noises when they are running, so again it's not exactly equal.
Also I'm sorry but it almost certainly didn't give it all to the survivors, I don't think that makes any logical sense. The survivor physically can't see what you're doing, they only know if you're phasing and which direction you're moving in. It's not perfect information as I keep saying
So you admit the Spirit had more information to work with than survivors, thus making it unfair? Because survivors had no information and now they have some. Personally I think you vastly overestimate how much of a nerf it actually is. Besides the point too, maybe spirit is a bit weaker but it was a healthy change overall.
Yes, I was being hyperbolic - you're right. Because I was highlighting the bigger problem of Spirit having way more information than the survivors did back then. Some survivors having an inherent disadvantage against a killer was just a funny observation
Again I don't appreciate you trying to discredit my opinions based on nothing more than baseless assumptions. Somebody could just easily make the argument that you hold the opinions you do because you're simply bad at killer and unwilling to learn but that would not only be hypocritical but really dumb too because it's completely baseless.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902006#Comment_2902006
"Meanwhile you hear Ash Williams groaning at 800% volume because the Spirit had stridor. Even without Stridor, to even pull off what you're implying was her "counter play" you needed iron will/lucky break/fixated - perks like that. Perk reliant counterplay isn't exactly great if you ask me but it is what it is."
No, you don't. You don't need any of those perks to do what I'm talking about. Also mentioning one very loud survivor has no relevance to anything we're talking about.
"I'm sorry but most players who played old Spirit didn't play base spirit with random perks - they played Stridor Spirit with anti-healing perks usually and it's obvious why."
Never said they did play with random perks. Them running meta Spirit perks changes nothing I've said.
"Maybe this is just me so the following comment is me speaking for myself: Playing Spirit isn't a guessing game. I don't have problems hearing survivors. Yes Iron will is annoying but once I've been hit by it, I know it's there and can adjust accordingly. Iron will doesn't make survivors just disappear."
I'd argue you're playing against low mmr players then. Iron Will forces short burst phasing and "guessing".
"Also again the information survivors have is limited, you hear which direction she is moving but not exactly where she is. It's still very possible to use it mid chase."
Against even mildly good survivors they know exactly where you're at. Against low mmr/average players who don't know what they're doing, sure this is all relevant.
It has relevance because the spirit has a lot of information when a survivor is injured, it's no longer equal. It went from "You can't see the survivor and they can't see you" to "You can't see or hear her and she can hear your groans of pain". Giving survivors something to work with made this less lopsided and more fair. In general Spirits had more information than the survivors did before her nerf. This is why Iron will became meta and why Stridor was the go-to spirit perk at the time. Facing a spirit without IW put you at such a big disadvantage.
I mentioned Ash not because it proves a point but because it's a funny example of how a survivor being loud just made it even easier for the spirit to down you while in phase.
You can argue I face "low mmr" survivors if you want, but my response to that would be: "I don't know and I don't care" because I don't know my MMR, I face survivors who are good at the game, that's all I think is relevant.
Trying to discredit my arguments by saying I'm facing low MMR players seems rather unfair if you ask me but hey - it's your opinion you're entitled to it.
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I don't like exponential not because it's weak
But because in order to get value out of it, the survivor team has to either mess up badly or give the killer an excuse to slug (If they aren't setting out to slug from the start)
A perk that only works if the survivors are in a losing spot typically doesn't sound great, but from my usage of it - it's saved games so it's def worth a perk slot even if you shouldn't really wanna use it. It's weird to think about it like that but hopefully I worded it properly
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901991#Comment_2901991
"Her power had no information or tell for survivors to use, there was no phasing sound while in the terror radius which gave way to the classic "haha i stood still" thing which I'm glad barely happens anymore because there was no skill to it. You claim survivors had ways to respond to it, which yeah - the main response was guessing"
She had tons of counter play before. You're looking for information or a tell on survivor because you don't understand how you were supposed to play against Spirit. If you were looking for feedback from Spirit before you were playing incorrectly. Spirit asked you to play against her differently than other killers. You had no play pro-actively, not re-actively. You take advantage of her lack of information to give her false information. IE misleading footsteps, run to window and fast vault to slow vault back over. You control the feedback you give her to manipulate her.
Stand still. You break line of sight or force her to phase by faking that you've committed to a run.
Playing as Spirit currently after the changes is a guessing game, but hey, it's on killer, so that's okay.
"She has speed, which doubles as a chasing and mobility tool. She limits survivors visibility and information on her while in chase. Not to mention she counters shift + W like Blight does. She has a lot more going for her than most killers"
Speed is all she has now. Which she also had those addons gutted. VIsibility is irrelevant when you hear where she's at during phasing, she might as well be visible. The information she's giving is not limited when you can tell exactly where she's at. She counter some hold W, however now you're at a loop with your power on cd waiting. Those cd seconds matter more than people like to admit.
"It's not fair to say she was gutted, she's still a very strong killer."
She's still "good". Definitely no where near the top tier anymore though. Her drop was far enough that it warrants the term "gutted".
You say "take advantage of her lack of information"
Meanwhile you hear Ash Williams groaning at 800% volume because the Spirit had stridor. Even without Stridor, to even pull off what you're implying was her "counter play" you needed iron will/lucky break/fixated - perks like that. Perk reliant counterplay isn't exactly great if you ask me but it is what it is.
I'm sorry but most players who played old Spirit didn't play base spirit with random perks - they played Stridor Spirit with anti-healing perks usually and it's obvious why.
Maybe this is just me so the following comment is me speaking for myself: Playing Spirit isn't a guessing game. I don't have problems hearing survivors. Yes Iron will is annoying but once I've been hit by it, I know it's there and can adjust accordingly. Iron will doesn't make survivors just disappear.
Also again the information survivors have is limited, you hear which direction she is moving but not exactly where she is. It's still very possible to use it mid chase.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901975#Comment_2901975
""Gutted" would imply they completely nerfed her power even though it's exactly the same on a mechanical level"
No, it's not. The mechanic was completely changed. The change doesn't have to literally be on the killer, it can be on how the survivors play against her which in turn does affect how she has to play.
"Survivors just have an actual way to respond to it now."
They did before, most were just not good at critically thinking how.
"She still moves faster than them, she still can't be looped as easily as other killers can and the information survivors get isn't 100% perfect - it's vague enough for it to be fair imo."
Speed is literally all she has now. She can be looped very easily and yes the information they get is 100% unless you're literally playing without headphones. There is zero vagueness to it whatsoever.
Her power had no information or tell for survivors to use, there was no phasing sound while in the terror radius which gave way to the classic "haha i stood still" thing which I'm glad barely happens anymore because there was no skill to it. You claim survivors had ways to respond to it, which yeah - the main response was guessing
She has speed, which doubles as a chasing and mobility tool. She limits survivors visibility and information on her while in chase. Not to mention she counters shift + W like Blight does. She has a lot more going for her than most killers
It's not fair to say she was gutted, she's still a very strong killer.
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@Blueberry said:
Because she got gutted and has too much counter play now.
"Gutted" would imply they completely nerfed her power even though it's exactly the same on a mechanical level
Survivors just have an actual way to respond to it now. She still moves faster than them, she still can't be looped as easily as other killers can and the information survivors get isn't 100% perfect - it's vague enough for it to be fair imo.
If they had left in the dust footsteps as well, I might've agreed with it being a straight up gut since that is almost perfect info, rendering the invisible part of her power pointless
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@Slaughterhouse3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2900772#Comment_2900772
I went past 1 mill after my game was done. I didn't turn in anything.
But was all of the BP from that 1 mil earned through matches?
Because if you claimed a code, got a login bonus etc, that BP doesn't 'count' toward the 1 mil cap
Here's an example to put my point across better since I might not be explaining it well enough:
Let's say I have 0 BP and gain 500k bp from rank reset then I play a bunch of matches and get 500k from matches. Effectively I only have 500k counted toward the 1 mil cap, meaning I can play more and get another 500k before it's capped out.
It'll say I'm past 1 mil, but that's only counting gift bp and so on.
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BP from rank reset, store codes, login bonuses etc do not count towards the 1 mil cap
It's possible you had some bp from a code or smth and that's why it's letting you go past. Eventually you'll hit the 'cap' which will be 1 mil + whatever amount of BP you had from codes/rank reset/login and so on
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I'm not sure how long it was, but a Wraith once chased me for so long on RPD that once he caught me - he hit me on the hook non-stop for my entire hook timer
Needless to say, I was pretty amused by the whole thing
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I've wondered about this as well, it's an interesting question
Worth remembering that it's not just exposed perks that are linked to basic attacks - stuff such as sloppy butcher for example would also be rendered unusable for nurse. Perk diversity on Nurse isn't exactly the most interesting out there, you usually see the same few playstyles but it'd still suck.
My gripe with Nurse and Exposed perks is when you have an oppressive chasing power, your two health states (And DH) are usually all you have to work with. Instadown perks skip over this and I'm not gonna go as far as to call it unbalanced but it does feel cheap. I understand why people dislike it having been on the receiving end of it many times.
Like the whole "just mindgame her" argument aside, it's the killer who is in control of the chase and that's why many people are so adamant to defend nurse because to them she's one of (arguably) two killers who are in control of the chase.
What the game would look like if every killer could ignore pallets and windows as much as nurse can is up for debate.
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I thought Coup de Grace's icon was a skeleton with a mohawk for some reason
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Boil over is getting nerfed again in mid chapter
they're reverting the wiggle swaying thing back to what it was before it's buff, which I think was 70 or 80%?
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Which original killer do you think would be best fit for an MK game?
Personally I think Oni would fit right in with Mk's roster.
Although ngl if it were up to me I'd pick Blight, he's the most chaotic killer on the roster which could make for a fun moveset