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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040268#Comment_3040268
What will you do if I say nurse isn't nowhere near strong at high MMR at all? there is no statistics of high MMR, thus that "proof" just doesn't work against anything except twins itself.
So why is it, that the higher you climb, the more nurses and blights you encounter. Surely that can't be a coincidence that every person experiences together. Blight is getting the adjustment to make him less strong, where is nurses adjustment? Spirit got some fixes not too long ago that actually makes it so you can attempt counter-play. I just don't understand how we're adjusting killers #2 and #3, but the #1 slot is untouchable. Explain that to me.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040260#Comment_3040260
More like, if you talk about something from game design perspective, you should use evidence that actually exists.
What you said is just a speculation or outright pure lie, which does nothing but makes your opinion less credible.
Have they not in the past made the state "Twins is a monster at the top end" to justify why she hasn't been buffed? What more proof do you need that they tune around that?
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040217#Comment_3040217
There are two types of people.
Someone believes in a rumor that appeared from nowehere and use it as reasoning for their opinions.
And the one who understand game and actual data, use those facts to back up their opinions.
Me and my lying eyes.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040217#Comment_3040217
Again. NOWHERE. Did the devs ever say they won't add or do something to the game because of nurse. This is an untrue statement that someone made up. Just to try to prove why they think nurse should be changed. Stop with the false information
So the devs need to explicitly tell you how game design works for you to believe it?
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There are two types of people.
The first wants nurse to be nerfed so more fun perks can be added to the game, these people understand she is overpowered and that nerfing her is good for the games health going forward.
The second are individuals who play nurse and don't want to see her changed.
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Ill try to list them in order of important or need of adjustment.
1: Map balance - Some maps are one sided going both ways, randomly generated tiles can also create insane loops or dead zones.
2: Survivor Items/Addons - Survivors being able to bring very strong items that can easily win them the game without perks.
3: Killer addons - Some addons are useless to detrimental, while others can win you the game for free.
4: Regression Perks - Not only are they boring, but they also don't feel good to play against.
5: Strong killers - They make it harder to put in strong perks and the game ultimately ends up being balanced around them.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032587#Comment_3032587
Overcome has the strongest effect of all exhaustion perk because getting injured and running that far leaves the killer with the choice to either chase you for a very long time or let you heal.
Sprint burst is useful in different scenarios, but really, as a killer, if I see sprint burst I go for another survivor, unless I think I can make the hit anyway.
Now, I did say that it's the strongest effect, but it's definitely not the strongest perk. Its problem isn't the effect. Yes, it's shorther than other speed perks, but it comes at a much more convenient time.
However, it does not work when unhooked. The mechanic that removes exhaustion avec being unhooked is non existant with this perk, and that's really what stops it from being meta.
That being said, lucky break being buffed, overcome might become one of the top meta perks because the combo is really extremely strong.
Smash hit, however, is tied to such a situational scenario and yet doesn't reward the surrvivor all that much.
Yeah I would definitely like to see a buff for smash hit, and I think overcome would be fine if you could just have it trigger from endurance hits. Other than that, why wouldn't you just run Sprint burst/Balanced Landing and deny the hit completely? Or run dead hard and possible give yourself an extra health state.
If you are really looking for a perk to zoom away from the killer and get him to stop chasing you, Lithe is the way to go.
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The only time I care about hatch escapes is when it was the survivor that hid all game and never got hooked. But, in that scenario, I can just slug the 3rd and look for the 4th. Rest of the time, I am fine going for a 50/50.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3034323#Comment_3034323
Yeah after watching some gameplay of the new Dead Hard, I don’t think Overcome will replace it. Dead Hard will still probably be meta.
I would argue that the weakest exhaustion perks are overcome and smash hit. You already gain enough distance without overcome to make it to loops, the idea of overcome is to have the killer lose you. Most killers will just keep chasing you and find you eventually. Smash hit is again sort of a win more perk, you already got value by stunning the killer, you can make it to another loop with that alone. So if the killer again, doesn't give up or lose you, smash hit is also a waste. Not to mention, the higher you climb in MMR the less likely you are, to actually stun killers. For that reason alone I think overcome is better than smash hit.
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I am almost positive there is also a bug that causes lacerations to begin decaying faster than it should, randomly.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032077#Comment_3032077
That’s probably because everyone is running Dead Hard currently. Once Dead Hard is nerfed Overcome will see more use.
People will still run Dead Hard, there is still huge value to gain when running to/through pallets. But, I expect to see a ton of Sprint burst/Lithe players after the patch. The perk itself is still weak compared to most of the other exhaustion perks, only getting value if the killer straight up quits the chase. Or you run several other perks in conjunction with it.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032538#Comment_3032538
You need to ask -why- people run an exhaustion perk 90% of the time. Yes there are a couple of alright perks and a couple of decent addons that can help counter them, but even with those things existing, almost everyone runs one. I don't think it's healthy balance for any archtype of perk to have such a high pickrate.
And I'm not asking for exhaustion to be something to avoid, I'd not want harsh penalties, simply something to make -not- running an exhausting perk feel slightly relevant. But yes nerfing most fo the exhaustion perks would also work.
If you make exhaustion a debuff that helps the killer chase and down a survivor. Then you are getting value out of anything that gives exhaustion, not just the exhaustion perks themselves. I am happy to have things like Dead Hard and Sprint Burst looked at, if they give too much value for one perk slot. But, making exhaustion a downside extra, is really bad for the game.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032524#Comment_3032524
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032518#Comment_3032518
The issue is that even with the exhaustion debuff, exhaustion perks are still a no-brainer. As it currently stands you should ALWAYS have an exhaustion perk, you're practically punished for not having one because your chases are that much shorter. There's less thought when it comes to your build because one of your perk slots is basically already an 'Exhaustion Slot'. Non-exhaustion builds are weaker and I just wanted choosing an exhaustion perk to be more of a meaningful choice. Have some slight adavantage to make up for not having the exhaustion perk.
I mean exhaustion hatchets huntress is one of my go to builds, and the survivors having an exhaustion perk is almost entirely useless. If they had any other perks to speed the game up in that situation it could be the difference between me 4king and not. You can also take into account fear monger which does a similar job of turning off a survivors perk.
While 90% of the time people run an exhaustion perk, that doesn't mean it was the best option for that slot for the game they played. I would rather have them nerf exhaustion perks to a point that they aren't considered best in slot. Than to make exhaustion something that you should avoid.
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The downside of exhaustion is that you don't have a 4th perk while you are exhausted. There are plenty of perks you could run to help you in chase that aren't exhaustion perks. If you add an additional downside then you are a 3 perk Andy plus having ankle bracelets on.
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@Mewishis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032118#Comment_3032118
No that's why im saying it should, because I have been using it a lot and I am already getting botany knowledge a perk I use a lot buffed so give me more buffs pls lol. Though on a serious note yeah it should trigger thats why I am so confused why its not a thing because I distinctly remember that being one of the ways to trigger it.
Oh okay, I thought you guys were pointing out that it is used a lot, and that it doesn't need changes. But I hardly see it, then again I am at 4 dead hard MMR for both killer and Survivor.
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@Mewishis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032107#Comment_3032107
Overcome is one of those perks that combined with other perks it turns into something great, I actually don't mind perks that have good combos instead of the perk by itself being generally amazing like dead hard was. Its wayy more healthy for the game honestly lol.
My question for you is does letting overcome trigger on an endurance hit really make it too strong? Why was it given this stipulation in the first place?
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@Mewishis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/331503/overcome-should-work-with-endurance-hits
Someone hasn't used the overcome lucky break combo, try it its genuinely amazing lol.
But yes I am pretty sure overcome used to go off over endurance hits.. but cant remember. but yeah it should.
That's the cheeky bite the bullet build I mentioned. I run Overcome, Bite the Bullet, Lucky Break, Botany. But every time I run overcome on its own, I get tunneled and get 1 use out of it.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032077#Comment_3032077
Yeah it's weird, actually. I genuinely rarely even notice when the survivors have it until the post game screen.
I only see it when I play survivor, I don't think I have played against more than 3 people total as killer using overcome.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
I see overcome on a fairly frequent basis actually. Maybe 20% of the exhaustion perks in my game.
Ill have to take your word for it, because I have seen 1 in the past 3 days.
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@kaneyboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3028003#Comment_3028003
i mean its happening near enough most matches- so not every killer has bad internet?
High ping doesn't necessarily mean your internet is bad, there a quite a few factors that go into ping. On top of the fact that both your ping, and their ping matter when it comes to window vaulting.
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What you are experiencing is a killer with bad ping, so he appears somewhere further back than he actually is on his end.
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@Evil_Dwight said:
Hi, legacy dwight and nurse main here.
Try playing nurse before you start claiming she needs a nerf.
- Survivors outplay her all the time, if you play nurse you will learn how to counter nurse
- MOST nurses NEVER get even a single kill. The nurses that you are complaining about are: me, or any person who played nurse since she was released.
- Nurse has one of the lowest kill rates, if not THE lowest. Therefore they are just as likely to BUFF nurse than nerf her. (which is to say ~0% chance).
Try running toward her, and/or breaking line of sight.
Yeah we know. Her kill rate sucks, but if you restrict the stats to the top 5-1% of nurse players. She goes from low 40% kills per game, all the way up to about 90%-100%. You start adding the meta nurse perks that make her even more oppressive, suddenly its not a question about if you will lose. But how quickly she will 4k. Anyone who argues that she isn't a problem either doesn't play at top MMR, or directly has a stake in the game (plays her a lot and doesn't want her to be changed).
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@xEmoGirlxAlexisx said:
Nice Graphic Update on the Map but u still cant Balance the Main Problem of that Map the unfair Windows and Giant loops
The Main Building still have some Windows whereM1 Killer cant do anything and the Loops in the middle of the Map areway to big and save Not even as Dredge u cant and Loop on some Spots because they are to big
BHVR plz Never Add any License Maps if u cant Balance them
The Game, Haddonfield, Badhman are all Survivor Sided even After the Rework
And plz dont Let us Talk about theAbdomination aka RPD
I agree with your take that Haddonfield is survivor sided, any survivor main likes this map, I love it. The main building is extremely strong, and the house with double windows on the same wall is also very strong. I have had the map be oriented several times where the double window building spawned right next to main building.
RPD on the other side, is equally frustrating for both sides (aside from billy or huntress). Play Ghost Face or Myer's on RPD, they both love that map and win quite easily. I have 4kd RPD several times as T1 or T2 Myer's. Freddy and Pig also love RPD, there are a plenty of killers that can take advantage of the map.
I think map balancing would have a bigger impact on the game than shaking up the meta by changing perks. I love that perks are being changed, and I hope it is done more, but the maps have a much higher impact on your killers kill rate than anything else.
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@StarLost said:
No, I enjoy it - he's so different to other killers, and I enjoy having to play a bit differently too.
Nightfall is one of those things that isn't as nasty as it seems at first - just know where you are at all times and plan an escape route out in advance once you get the audio prompt that it's close.
It has almost no effect on Farm, Swamp, Eyrie, Ormond, Gideon, Forest, GOR and Asylum and is only somewhat impactful on Haddonfield, Midwich and Autohaven maps.
You guys are going to have to start showing some videos of your PoV, because I am starting to think I'm the only person who doesn't run a filter. Without windows of opportunity, you basically have to memorize the map layout to make it to the next loop.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
Nightfall barely does anything as is. On some maps, it almost literally does nothing due to projected lighting. It also often makes the Killer easier to see. Toning it down would make it do even more nothing. Or less nothing. You get what I mean. Ya, faster locker hops, but the confusing nature of low visibility is already not great, and gutting it would make the mechanic nearly useless.
I feel like for it to be barely anything you need to run a filter. I don't have any filters and my brightness is quite low on my monitor, I can't even make out generators 6 feet in front of me. Are you saying that for me to enjoy going against the dredge I should just adjust my games lighting?
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I am a ghost face main, and spine chill on its own makes the killer feel 10 times worse, so a change was needed imo. But, they kind of took spine chill out back and shot it, I think its a bit overboard.
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Nurse without question has the highest "Quit" rate. When it comes to giving up/killing themselves on hook or straight up DCing. Followed by Myers with a build that lets him kill people in T3.
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You need to have the invitation active when either two things happen. A) an exit gate opens, or B) the hatch opens. Basically, don't grab the invitation late, or waste time looking for it late.
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Before the recent test changes all of my games on killer and survivor were sweat storms across the board. I like competitive games, but sometimes you just need a break. After the recent MMR changes games seem more unbalanced, its almost like the game flips a coin when matching you with people. Heads you lucked out and got some less skilled players, tails you got some sweats.
I definitely prefer the coin flip, but what's the point of an MMR system, if the game ignores it to give you faster que times. I loved the rank based days they did during the tests, I played for like 8 hours.
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The game was very long, dinner was ready. Me and one other person were left, he slugged me to find the other survivor, I couldn't be bothered to lay on the ground for another 4 minutes.
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@Slowpeach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2997409#Comment_2997409
It's not intended as a brag more like of... 'There's more to the game then winning/making the other side pissy' which I know is a concept that will never get through to some people just as telling me NoED is free real state is meaningless to me. That's not mockery, bragging or saying I'm right and you are wrong either, just stating how different people see and value things. Also I think it's honestly better to leave bones vs. NoED because it may spawn on one you know about already. If you can't find the last one and some of those spawns are nasty, you can be worse off.
NoED is just a bucket load of no fun to go up against which I don't wish to impose on the other side. And yeah, it doesn't stop people running Dead Hard or being bullies or jerks or whatever, but some people do appreciate the effort. I don't believe it's imbalanced or anything unlike Dead Hard it's just not fun and it tends to lead to visibly degenerate playstyles most obviously via making camping easier. It's also a crutch and ultimately hinders growth.
Pop is more passive and Pain Resonance gets regression all the time but the scream 'should' only work once. Sure these perks are very strong and are dominant at higher levels for a reason, but considering that the math of generator time vs. find/chase/hook cycle is strongly against the killer... well their existence is more understandable and at least facing it, it's not so bad from a mental stand point. NoED cheats a health state though and from a psychological point of view, well oversimplifying it, it just sucks regardless of it's actual 'power'.
And I agree, the problem people have with NoED is psychological. It may feel like the killer cheated you out of a win, but the reality is, that killer chose to have weaker slow down or chase to have a stronger end game. Once you get even near the higher end of MMR, people will quickly start to deal with your NoED with relative ease. Like even you have pointed out one counter-play when dealing with NoED, and there are many more tricks you can do to help with NoED.
I think the main reason the perk needs a change is because there is very little counter-player when someone gets caught with NoED activating and they get downed next to the totem. That person is essentially dead unless there teammates are magicians. I think if they made NoED time based after the gens are completed, based on how many hooks you had before 5 gens were done. I have been on both ends of protecting a totem and hook before, and that situation feels too strong. But outside of that, NoED feels fine.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996491#Comment_2996491
Yeah. We've never seen any kill rate evidence that indicates she's problematic. It's all anecdotal. They historically move quickly when killers approach 70-80% (see Freddy/Pinhead). People put way too much stock in their personal experience. Myy last 4 Nurse matches off the top of my head ended in 4 outs or the Nurse d/c'ing. Clearly underpowered /s
Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. They recently made the statement "The twins are monsters at the top end", despite never showing us top end data. I guarantee you top end nurse players have 80-100% kill rates when hey master her and run sweaty perks.
I think the fact that new and average players struggle with her immensely is another reason to rework her. You could find a middle ground between being too hard to master/too strong, and easier to play/but not as oppressive.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2997409#Comment_2997409
I’m not being humble, I run it on Spirit like a monster. I’m more just pointing out that early on NOED is a likely perk you’ll find and can actually use. This post is more just making fun of people who screech about it when some level 5 guy is running it as one of their two perks.
Kinda like Life taking inspiration from Art so to speak.
Not saying specifically you, but the community at large likes to often point out that they "don't use NoED" to express some sort of "I am better than the perk" idea. While it might help you play better not banking on having NoED, the very idea that you can bank on it, means its a decent perk. I get the idea that it boosts weaker killers, but its no different than DH/BT/DS blah blah blah. If you think playing nice will make survivors pull their punches, I have bad news for you.
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I don't get how not using NoED is this humble brag, you are literally choosing not to use free real estate. NoED punishes survivors for ignoring bones or finishing gens at the wrong time. I know that NoED is on a list to be changed/nerfed but there are much better perks than exist, that I would rather not play against as a survivor main. Pain Resonance and Pop is some of the most degenerate gameplay you can experience, and there is very little you can do about it aside from just not going down at all.
There are huge mistakes you can make when it comes to facing against a killer with NoED and I feel like 90% of the community walks right into those traps. It takes several chain links of mistakes for a killer to get NoED value, if you break just one of them, its useless.
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In the almost 700 hours I have played as a survivor main, STBFL has seen value in just one of my games. And it only got value because A) I wasn't aware she had it (yet) and B) I wanted to take aggro so I was being a little BM. While it can be a nice perk when it comes to securing unhook downs, it is extremely niche at best. There are a plethora of other perks that would give you much more pressure or time in a game.
The only power STBFL has, is in survivors not knowing you have it, but its a very obvious perk once the killer gets a decent amount of stacks. On top of most killers not chasing the obsession despite free hits being offered.
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If they made it so leaving lobby screens gave you a small que penalty like a few minutes to reque, would you be okay with them showing SWFs? Or is it something else that you think would be unfair to show SWFs. Because I think giving killers the time to mentally prepare for a hard game, far out weighs the chance of dodgers.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2941544#Comment_2941544
Except where I said its all perception and mostly misconception.
Killers have a habit of leaving a bad game and saying "must have been a SWF" based on zero evidence, and never once consider if their 4Ks were SWFs
It is pretty easy to tell when I play my main Ghost Face, and people run off gens 10 minutes before I get there without spine chill, that it was a SWF.
People like to use the word perception like they developed an irrational belief on a subject. Perceptions are rooted in reality.
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Getting killed by one person is less soul crushing than watching 4 people click and dance at the exit gate.
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Everyone in here awknowledging that people would dodge, proving my point that SWFs are not fun to play against. Whether they are sweaty or just trying to annoy the killer, they create a very bad experience for the killer.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
No. Que times would inflate and swf would never get a game.
What makes you think the que times would go up? Is playing against SWFs really that bad?
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@SuzuKR said:
No thanks. It would reward immature players leaving lobby the second they see a SWF.
How so?
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This is just not reflecting reality. My younger brother started playing 2 weeks ago, he is almost gold ranked now and is still playing against baby killers and survivors across the board. The fun part is when I que with him for some reason it puts me at his rank, not mine, so i can actually show him things without having to be sweaty.
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There are three types of nurses games that I have experience. The first, is a slog, where the nurse is just relatively decent and kills everyone either slowly or very quickly (usually map dependent on death speed). The second is where people see its a nurse and instantly leave, or they get chased and downed and instantly leave. The third is where the nurse is just slightly bad and everyone escapes with almost no hooks (NoED probably exists).
For me instance 1 and 2 are the most common, 2 being the most common. People just don't like playing against her, and I understand it completely. I think blight is almost as strong as her, but at least there is some semblence of counter play. All of your ability to survive against nurse, really falls in the hands of the nurse player.
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@Tiufal said:
There is no new MMR system.
From what I understand they just recently (in the past week) changed how matches are put together slightly? I know at least one thing they did was lower the MMR cap. I suppose I could have worded it better, the way players have matched up has changed slightly. It feels worse to me, my teamates are less reliable but the killers have either gotten better or not changed.
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Yeah this is uninstall levels of not fun.
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Whatever they did, I haven't escaped in 10 games.
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@Atc2000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/307242/kicked-to-log-in-screen
It's happening to me too. several times a day in the game, due to loss of host or in the lobby.
Now I have a penalty of 1 hour. no one responsible for DBD responds, the ban is unfair when the penalty system does not work
I have been having a DC just about every other game today, happened to me once in about 5 games.
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@Marc_123 said:
Last games were only good to very good killers. Last games we were all 4ked...
I am very aware that MMR and Ranks are two different things. My thoughts were that if I am able to double pip and not escape through the exit gates, why would you? You would just be hypothetically increasing your MMR to face better killers that will likely keep you from double piping. What ended up happening is that, no matter how far my MMR fell, the killers were still all relatively the same skill. However, my survivor teammates drastically dropped in skill with every death I had. I got to the point, that with just one hook state, I would die 50% of the time.
After this small experiment I am convinced that it is not worth it to drop your MMR, to make it easier to rank up. The skill of your teammates is much more important than how good the killer is.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705179#Comment_2705179
Just to say that your grade doesn't connect to the matchmaking at all.
I am aware, my thoughts were, if I can get 2 pips without escaping through the gates whats the point? I would only be increasing my MMR, hypothetically making it harder for me to get the points to double pip, the better the killers get. What ended up happening is, no matter how far my MMR fell, the killers were all relatively the same skill wise. While, the survivors matched with me, continually got worse and worse. It is at a point now where if I get just one hook state, there is a 50% chance I die on that first hook.
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I actually did an experiment to see how far I could climb if I never escaped (through the gates), but either got hatch or died. I am currently at tier 1 gold, and what I have noticed is. The killers never got easier, they all play relatively the same (my MMR was very high, when I started), but. The survivors on your team get MUCH MUCH worse. It just isn't worth it to drop your MMR to make the games easier, because the killers aren't getting worse, just your teammates are.