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I have already gotten several head shakes and hits on hooks from killers this patch. At least have the balls to do it in chase if you want to feel like a big man. Doing it when you know I can't gesture back just shows me how scared of me you truly are.
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Legion thana will get adjusted, regardless of how youtubers feel about it. The question is how long it will take for the developers to notice people are DCing against it.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072573#Comment_3072573
That's only the action speed bonus. It still lights up when the killer is in a certain proximity. Unlike before, though, it lights up, period, not solely when they're looking at you.
######### why did they do that, I was so excited to play stealth killers this patch.
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@ich_häng_mal_rum said:
Dude, this matchmaking is just bad. Newbie killer were paired with experienced survivors and instead of fixing their matchmaking the devs buff every noob killer that now can win against pro swfs with 1-2 slowdowns and tunnling… very skillful. That has nothing to do with boosted dh survivors or something like that.
As someone who was at 4 dead hard MMR last patch, the MMR feels better. I play mostly with head on so my chases last patch were inconsistent, if the killer was a knower I just died, but if they weren't I would never get caught. I played several games yesterday and it felt like I had way more agency over whether or not I escaped. Off the record and deliverance feels incredible, almost like I am cheesing something. Windows of Opportunity is still an SS+ tier perk and you are left with one slot for your favorite exhaustion perk.
My teammates feel more consistent, the killers are pretty consistent, I had a lot of fun yesterday. I would like them to look at overcharge and thana but that is about it. Thana is fine on most killers but some have the ability to keep everyone injured pretty easily, I don't think that interaction is particularly fun to play against.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072657#Comment_3072657
The only way it wouldn't is if they were taking time to match survivor closely and then throwing the first killer into that lobby. It would be pretty pointless because you just end up with the same imbalanced matches except it would be all baby survivors going against a pro killer and vice versa.
That was my thought exactly, they find the survivors first and then match them as a group to a killer.
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"Lithe now causes you to rubberband randomly while vaulting, this can take place on any vault, not just a vault that activates lithe".
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072647#Comment_3072647
The second would Aldo effect killer q times because they would also be trying to put them into better matches.
Not necessarily.
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The problem with soloq is that it only takes one non-efficient survivor to lose to a killer at your MMR. So when the games are good they are good, but the second you get a stealther or someone doing a challenge it's hard not to notice.
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Killer ques have also been instant.
A few things could be happening, the first most likely option is that it is currently bugged and stuck on 100% for survivor.
The second, is that they could have increased que times for survivor to put together better matches.
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Sounds like its bugged, it's only suppose to light up for a terror radius or a killer staring at you in line of sight.
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Been playing solo survivor just about all day and outside of thana legion/plague and overcharge, it feels like the game is in a better spot.
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I have played like 15 soloq games today and died a total of 3 or 4 times, I de-pipped once. It feels like they increased que time to match you with closer MMR survivors and killers, it feels much better than yesterdays games imo. OTR is like wearing a nice warm blanket every time I get off the hook, feels amazing, I don't think I will ever take it off.
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I have had some proxy camping so far, only camping if its end game collapse and they have no other option. I have had one Demogorgon who was teleporting back to unhooks but going after the unhooker. Feels good so far, only issues I have seen from a survivor pov is overcharge and thana.
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@JakeCannon said:
So far I have had the most fun/fair overall matches as killer this morning . The Q times in the AM where I'm at usually take like 5-10 min to find a lobby but today it's been almost instant . I personally had my first 3 DC game too but I don't count those as fun
I am also enjoying the patch as solo survivor. Have gotten a lot of value out of deliverance + OTR today, give it a shot.
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As a survivor main, I am liking it so far. I think Legion/Plague Thana needs to be looked at, but that's about it.
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Really good as solo survivor, have only lost 2 games, have earned a ton of bp in just a few games. Been running Lithe, Deliverance, OTR, and WIndows.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070369#Comment_3070369
Enjoy longer queues while it lasts? Or enjoy less BP while it lasts? Can't say I find either of those choices enjoyable.
@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3070369#Comment_3070369
Enjoy? Enjoy what? The awful teammates, the longer survivor queues or the weird (to be nice) matchmaking?
The blood points jesus, I have only lost 2 games as solo survivor today, one was a DC, and one was a possible hacker.
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I have my money on it being bugged, enjoy it while it lasts.
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I tried to make a suggestion thread to make legion less oppressive, I was basically told he wasn't a problem and I was just whining. Needless to say, I think I have had 3 games in a row where someone had dcd immediately against him.
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@Babalonkie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/334976/lightweight-meta
Shhhh
They buffed one of the perks i frequently used...
Came here to say the same thing xD
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@HookedonDemand said:
I'll end up with all survivor perks on 3 for all of them, but also with a lot of random survivors with nothing on them since I had to prestige them before the update. Worth it I say. 🥵😂
Same I should have all rank 3 perks on killers and surviviors.
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In my opinion once you get decent at nurse, every blink becomes a 50/50 whether or not you hit the survivor. Whereas every other killer only gets 50/50 chances a few times throughout the game, that's why she is strong. While other killers have to wait for windows to block and wait for pallets to be used, she just 50/50s constantly until she downs you.
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I find tea bagging and gesturing in chase to be an effective way to get the killer to chase you, I don't see either of these as toxic. Standing at the exit gate and tea bagging however are a different story, you already one, just leave.
That's basically where I stand, if you want the killer to chase you, anything you do to get his attention isn't toxic. If you have already won, anything you do at that point is just to rub it in, you are toxic.
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If everyone in low MMR used knock out and slugged it would get changed immediately, it is not a good perk for this game. Especially because the majority of players play solo survivor without coms.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068571#Comment_3068571
Can't it?
Like I said, I've yet to hear where exactly that nerf came from. The stuff that makes solo queue hard is... basically unchanged?
Your lack of information is unchanged, all the teammate-aura and team-information perks are still there. Your need to have a few clutch self-heals available hasn't gone anywhere, though BK getting a nerf is a minor hit there. You still have all the best tools for doing that, so I don't consider that "nerfed hard". Your lack of coordination with your teammates hasn't changed, since nothing in this new update really requires coordination to counter or to use, respective to the role.
Those are the (balance-relevant) things that make solo queue harder. What am I missing here?
I gave you the benefit of the doubt before, but I think we have entered delusional territory. That or being purposefully misleading.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068159#Comment_3068159
Dead Hard isn't an anti tunneling perk. It's used as a get out of jail free card for everytime you play dumb. Learn to loop without it.
How is extending chase after being unhooked not an anti-tunneling perk? I don't even run dead hard, I run head on in 90% of my games. Bunch of sore winners in here. We get it you couldn't play around dead hard, it's getting nerfed, you can stop throwing a party over everyone's head.
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I expect to see the garden of joy get a nerf to particularly the main building, and possibly some pallets near the shack. Outside of those two it won't be that bad. Some maps have bad totems some have very very hard totem spawns, I don't think Garden of Joy totems are pretty down the middle.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068258#Comment_3068258
Dead Hard is 100% irrelevant to the topic of tunnelling. It may have also helped in that scenario, but that was not what it was designed to do and focusing on that ignores that it was absurdly strong and 100% needed its nerf.
As for the others, I'm still on the fence about DS' stun nerf but worst case scenario is that you just replace it with OTR, which is better than DS ever was at actually being an anti-tunnel tool. They deactivate in the endgame because of course they do, the endgame is free reign to camp and tunnel because you have literally nothing else left to do, if multiple people are alive you can stick by the hook to secure one kill or use it as bait. It's not a guaranteed kill to have them deactivate, but having them still active would be a guaranteed escape.
If you define anti-tunnel as "making it impossible for the killer to tunnel", sure, these changes aren't going to do that because nothing could without serious downsides. If you more correctly understand it as "giving the survivor agency in the chase to outplay a tunnelling killer", these changes absolutely make serious strides. There's no room for ambiguity here, tunnelling got harder.
As for camping... what exactly is wrong with trading hooks? The killer isn't getting more meaningful value than they would from playing the game normally, and if it's played right they won't actually get any kills at all. Making saves more meaningful by rendering the killer incapable of getting more than a trade without leaving the hook is exactly what they should be doing to fix camping, among other things.
What still needs to be done for camping is a mix of a few things- more incentive to leave the hook is never going to be a bad idea, and some minor discouragements from lingering like a loss of points, aura reveal for the survivors, and maybe a few other penalties alongside that would go a long way-- but ultimately, killers are always going to be able to camp if they really want to. What BHVR should be looking at doing is making saves more viable, not making standing by the hook impossible.
Which, y'know, they've started with in this patch.
I guess well just have to disagree and watch the meta unfold, I have my money on the forums crying about it in about 2 weeks.
I will be playing a lot of killer though, so you won't see me complaining, the game just got much much more easier for my main Ghost face.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068228#Comment_3068228
I do think camping and tunnelling are a problem, yes. I think that the most problematic versions of camping (which is mostly literally just Leatherface) get a little worse this patch, but the more common kind - usually M1 killers facecamping or any killer proxy camping - got slightly weaker as it's impossible to tunnel someone immediately off hook, meaning that it's far more likely to be a trade when saving a camped teammate and not two downs.
Tunnelling is a problem not because the killer is chasing the same survivor twice, but because it robs that survivor of agency. They're at their most vulnerable when they're freshly unhooked, and the game's had a problem for a while of not having any meaningful tools to give them an edge and tip the scales back to at least neutral ground- even DS requires you to actually get downed, and a lot of killers can close the distance again after the stun wears off. With these changes, being downed again a few feet from the hook basically shouldn't happen again, and you're going to have the opportunity to actually make it to a loop and start having agency again, or try and get out of line of sight and hide if you prefer the stealthier route. Something to make chasing you less appetising.
Obviously this can't be the end of it, but these are good first steps. Tunnelling takes a pretty noticeable hit (so long as you understand what anti-tunnel is meant to achieve), and camping... well, it's more complicated but there's a decent foundation to build anti-camp tools onto later on.
I've yet to hear any meaningful arguments for why solo queue gets "decimated". From my perspective, my solo queue games might get a little easier with this patch.
I mean I agree with you if we ignore the fact that, dead hard and DS got nerfed, OTR and DS don't work if exit gates are powered. This alone guarantees killers a kill in the end game. People aren't going to run BT anymore, so if you don't run OTR you are 100% dead in 5 seconds. People will just eat DS now because its stun isn't enough to give them meaningful safety. Remember killers got buffed across the board so they do everything faster, if they want to tunnel, that person dies much much faster than last patch.
And then there's camping, which is a lot more meaningful because gens take longer. And I agree that most of the time people don't camp to tunnel they camp to trade, which is even more cheap in my opinion. What was done to prevent free trades from killers who camp? Absolutely nothing.
So again, I just straight up disagree that tunneling or camping got harder, they got easier. And I would prefer the developers to know that now so we don't have to wait another two months to get actual fixes for things people quit the game over.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068168#Comment_3068168
If it helps, I agree with them and I play more survivor
What in particular do you agree with, many points have been brought up.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068213#Comment_3068213
That's a pretty wild accusation to throw out there, friend.
Do you have any evidence to back that up other than that I disagree with you?
Is it a wild accusation, from our conversation it seems pretty fair. I play both about equally and I think killers made out like a bandit. SWFs will still be annoyingly strong with OTR but SoloQ got decimated.
Do you even think camping and tunneling are a problem currently, like before patch? I am starting to think you don't.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068192#Comment_3068192
I don't think that framing is helpful.
I think the better question to ask is "will survivors in general or solo queue in specific be unfairly harmed", and the answer to that - in my opinion - is no.
Some things got harder. Some tools were nerfed. For the most part, that happened to the things it needed to happen to, for the game's overall health.
Here's my theory.
You main killer, you know the changes to camping and tunneling is largely useless, could even be considered easier to do so.
Knowing this, you would rather people don't talk about it so the developers don't revisit camping and tunneling in the future, because it makes your games harder.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068171#Comment_3068171
I'm doing neither, I'm giving my honest opinion after I've thought about the changes for a while.
Also, gaslighting is a real and serious thing, and in my opinion it really cheapens that important term to apply it to disagreements about video games on the internet.
So you don't think the real winners in this patch are killers?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068168#Comment_3068168
If I say yes, are you going to discount my words out of hand?
Because that would be pretty silly.
No it'll just help me understand if you are coping hard, or trying to gaslight people because you know the patch went entirely in your favor.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068159#Comment_3068159
Yeah, I don't buy that.
Dead Hard needed to be nerfed, and there are plenty of actual anti-tunnel tools that'll help you just as much when you are actually being tunnelled without also being overpowered in other scenarios.
Just by chance, do you happen to play killer more than survivor?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068147#Comment_3068147
Five seconds while they have a Haste effect, and if they don't have any other perks that they can use in those five seconds. It's guaranteed to be enough to not be downed straight away, and there's far more uncertainty on the killer end as to just how efficient it'll be to chase someone after they're unhooked.
Sure, maybe they don't have anything relevant, but maybe they've got Off The Record and you'll swing into Endurance. Maybe their teammate has Borrowed Time and they keep running at a faster rate. Hell, maybe they just make it to a window or a drop and proc Lithe or Balanced Landing to make chasing them even less appealing.
Tunnelling will get harder in this upcoming update. Camping is a little more arguable, but tunnelling is not going to get easier.
Dead hard nerf alone, made tunneling easier. Everything else stacked on top, is just more icing on that cake.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068084#Comment_3068084
It's different because you no longer have to rely on the person unhooking you having brought Borrowed Time. If you bring Off The Record you will always be granted the benefits of a strong anti-tunnel tool. It's also different because they do different things...? BT only protects you from getting hit, but OTR will protect you from getting hit and make you harder to find again if the killer follows you.
I also don't agree that the killer is forced to hit you-- it's not a free body block. It's a body block that comes at the cost of having done nothing to progress the game for however long you were lurking around waiting to prevent a down or whatever you're aiming for.
Instead of waiting 12 seconds, now you just follow them for 5 then, and then they die. Trust me at top end MMR everyone will run OTR.
I am just warning you guys, get ready for the tunnel/camp meta.
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@Alphasoul05 said:
Any time any drastic nerfs have ever happened in this game it's what the people upset about say. But they continue to play, the playerbase continues to grow, and people realize.. that a vocal minority does not represent the majority of the playerbase.
Some people would rather do the same thing for 10 years straight because it's strong, than ever accept that it's a problem
I don't think people are upset about the nerfs as much as they are about being promised something and getting the opposite. I get that some people are whining, but many just want to give feedback on the game they like.
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3068045#Comment_3068045
Because the already injured one is sprinting away and is going to be harder to find again. Anti-tunnel measures aren't meant to make it impossible to chase or down someone who's recently been unhooked, they're meant to give the unhooked player more agency by letting them get to loops and start trying to outplay the killer.
That kind of coordination honestly isn't reasonable to expect of solo queue, this is still a very very good change for them. Now you don't have to hope that your teammates are going to be that coordinated, because it doesn't matter, you can't be hit again anyway.
Agreed that specific killer powers need their own fine-tuning for anti-camp measures, though I don't think just disabling them is a good call.
How is that different from now with people running borrowed time? We basically traded using borrowed time for over the record and rather than just one person your entire team needs to run it. On top of that killers will be forced to hit you or give free body blocks later in the game. I like that behavior is trying to fix tunneling and camping, but they kind of did the opposite.
I play soloQ for 99% of my matches, and I see this type of coordination just about every game I play. If a killer is camping you will still need more than one person to unhook against a good killer. I promise you this patch only helped the bottom half of the MMR curve, it hurt just about everyone else playing survivor, aside from SWFs.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067976#Comment_3067976
There are a few things here I'd like to contest, if you don't mind.
First, if you're hit off hook immediately to get OTR out of the way... you aren't being tunnelled, because you get the speed boost and the stealth of OTR to get out of sight and evade the killer. At worst, you get to relocate to somewhere you can start making a play in chase, which is exactly what anti-tunnel measures are designed to do. What you're describing is anti-tunnel measures working.
Second, if the exit gates are powered, tunnelling is fair game. What else is the killer supposed to do?
Third, how is a good player supposed to counter being downed immediately after they get unhooked? They don't have time to outplay it, especially if it's a solo queue player being farmed. If they're hit as soon as their feet touch the ground they literally don't have time to react, and even if it's a second later, they can't exactly do anything.
Leatherface camping did get a bit nastier, that I will agree with, but tunnelling and certain forms of camping categorically get weaker in this patch.
If you are forced to hit people off the hook every time, then why would you take the time to chase a healthy individual instead of an already injured one? And now that dead hard is all but gone, you know that at most you will be dealing with a lithe or sprint burst. You may eat a DS sure, but they nerfed the stun, it's almost negligible now.
Agreed.
I didn't mean the individual being unhooked but the other players in the game can prevent the killer from hitting someone being unhook. In a solo game you might have bad teammates, but at high MMR I usually get decent teammates. So at mid to low MMR you may have better luck with camping than at mid to high.
And yeah, they need to just turn off chain saws near the hook, hatches, knives, oni power.
At the very least low MMR players will have an easier time with campers, but just about everyone else got nerfed.
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Camping and Tunneling have actually become more important, let me explain.
Gens take 10 seconds longer, so killers like bubba who face camp now have more time to kill people on their first hook.
Off the record will be meta, if you don't hit someone off the hook immediately, you will regret it during your next chase.
Decisive strike has been nerfed, you will now always want to tunnel that person if the gates are powered.
The only thing this patch addressed was immediately downing someone after they get unhooked, which is already something good players could counter. It did nothing to camping or tunneling in general, it actually made them worse in my opinion.
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@Viskod said:
Plague's with Dying Light just over here minding our own business.
Why not both xD
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066527#Comment_3066527
How is the problem these two killers and not Thana when the issue is that Thana makes games against those killers take forever?
I don't run Thana on either of them. Are you saying you think they need a nerf even then?
I always thought the obvious solution was to make it so the first stacks of Thana do more than the last stacks. That, and undo the PTB percentage buff, because that was totally unnecessary in conjunction with gen times.
Because currently only these two killers can maintain a 4 stack of thana without hardly trying. Most killers in DBD cannot maintain a 3 stack let alone a 4. If you frontload thana you are still not doing anything to how it works with plague and legion, you are just making it better for an already broken interaction. Thana is pretty much a win more perk on plague because people who cleanse give you your power, and people who don't take longer to do gens. If you run the broken mending on legion it is a similar situation where survivors physically can't heal after each frenzy hit.
The perk could be buffed more in they addressed its interaction with these two killers powers, because I don't think it is a good choice on anyone but them.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067047#Comment_3067047
Again: I don't see how being told "people DC if a game isn't going their way" is the same as "I just got told DC against Nurse is a hoax"
What you are doing right now is still gaslighting. xD
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066826#Comment_3066826
People DC against every killer for something as simple as they got found/downed first. I guess survivors going down isn't fun, we should change that.
Also I don't see how being told "people DC if a game isn't going their way" is the same as "I just got told DC against Nurse is a hoax".
I've had people DC against a Wraith, Pig, Myers, Doctor, and Clown. By your arguments: that's because they're OP and unfun. Also apparently they're on the same level as Nurse now?
I don't think that holds up. People DC just because they got upset at whatever they feel like.
I just thought it was funny that I was being gaslit about people DCing against nurse and within 5 minutes I had a game where 1 person DCd and 2 people give up against one.
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@akaTheBARON said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066784#Comment_3066784
Highly doubt people who normally don't DC because they're not babies, will suddenly start DCing because of this. Imagine using people who DC as proof of anything other than, they will only play a game if its going their way.
In more than half my games against nurse, people give up at some point, whether it be instantly or later in the game. I have already started seeing it in some legion games, only when they run thana. I played a plague game a few weeks ago that lasted almost 30 minutes, I was begging her to kill me by the end. People dc all the time sure, I'm not going to argue that. But, at some point you have to acknowledge that its because a killer isn't fun to play against and do something about it.
Edit: Here's a game I played 4 minutes ago.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066784#Comment_3066784
The community DC's against any killer anyway despite survivors being stronger than 90% of the killer cast. Irrelevant to the argument.
People not wanting to play against op killer's is irrelevant? That's an interesting take.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066692#Comment_3066692
Define "good", it doesn't make them strong. It's just decent enough to consider bringing unlike other killers.
Like I said, those few extra seconds in an ideal situation isn't going to bring them to Blight levels.
The 10 seconds is universal, not on Thana only. The changes only added ~4 seconds to Thana specifically, oh no DBD is dead, not 4 seconds more on mid tier killers in a ideal situation 😨
3 gens are the survivors fault, pop isn't good anymore, overcharge isn't good anymore after the nerfs. Thana was never good, at best its decent on 2 killers.
The main problem in that scenario is the 3 gen. Which if the survivors 3 gen themselves they deserve to have a very difficult time.
Feel free to screen shot this when the community starts dcing every legion game.
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There is counter-play to heal tech depending on how far the downed survivor is from the exit gate. If there are multiple survivors ready to heal tech, hit the survivors that aren't healing first, people being healed cannot move. If you hit the survivor healing one by one you will allow that person to crawl incrementally between heals. If it is just one person healing very close to the exit, allow them to finish healing that person if you can wedge yourself between the downed individual and the exit, swing as soon as they get up, and auto pick up.
I am not going to say this is/isn't an exploit because it very well could be changed in the future, but for now they have no plans of banning you for doing it.
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@MrPenguin said:
The buff was 2% can we stop with the catastrophizing.
Legion and Plague also aren't strong enough killers where a few extra seconds will make them ridiculous, same as before.
The perk wasn't amazing before and 2% isn't going to make it so.
It is already a good strategy for both these killers, and it isn't just 2%. It's 10 seconds extra of generators and 2%, that is a massive difference. Mark my words, this will get out of control very quickly if people abuse it. Currently on live with a fully stacked thana it takes 96 seconds to do a generator. After the patch it will take 110, add pop or overcharge on top of this, good luck winning in a 3 gen scenario.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3064761#Comment_3064761
But it is pointless, does not anything to the topic. Start a separate forum thread for your suggestion.
It fits, hes saying Legion and Plague games are going to be abysmal after the patch. That's is exactly the reason I started this thread, I don't think the problem is thana though, I think it's these two killers.