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@BlueRose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066252#Comment_3066252
I don't understand what you saying since I basically want the same thing but adding m1 restrictions doesn't accomplish that at all. If you made thana only work on m1 you either see two things happen. A) No one will run the perk at all and then the perk is useless and might as well not be in the game or B) you see killers who have powers to injure choose not to use it since they cant get value from perks like Jolt and Sloppy. Either way, it's clear we not going to change each other minds so I'm just going to say I agree to disagree and move on with my life. Just know this if you start adding m1 restrictions to perks like Thana you see more perks like that and it will make the game even more boring so if that is what you want, boring m1 killers every match, then more power to you then. Have a blessed day.
We disagree but we might be able to find common ground. Have you played against a legion running thana? Do you think it's a fun experience?
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@BlueRose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065402#Comment_3065402
No, I just don't want more restrictions on perks on how they proc or work. Sloppy and Jolt are perks like that and it limits them greatly where a lot of killers cant use them all that great. If the devs follow your line of thought more and more perks be like sloppy and jolt and we just see every killer turn into m1 killers which are some of the most boring killers in the game imo. If they did do what you say and made thana only proc with m1s then that perk might as well be dead and be deleted in the game since no one would want to use it. How many sloppy do you see outside new player lobbies? I know a lot of ppl want Jolt to change so it procs with both m1s and powers since it would make it ten times more useful and be used more. Shoot in the recent past we have seen the devs remove the m1 restrictions from perks like Blood Favor and the recent buff to Dark Devotion. Adding restrictions doesn't fix things, it's just a band-aid fix and makes things wrost. That's why I say rework thana and not just add an m1 restriction on it.
I disagree, every perk should be viable on all killers, and for that to be true you need to take into account that killer. I would like to see perks be molded to fit killers better, I don't think there is anything wrong with making perks stronger or weaker depending on what killer is using it.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065172#Comment_3065172
What in the name of Christ does legion have to do with nurse?
Most of the community right now wants nurse nerfed based on anecdotal evidence.
The numbers or as some like to call "the statistics" of nurse show her doing not so great.
If BHVR were to nerf nurse, then it would prove that anecdotal evidence matters.
Does that make sense? Please let me know if I should explain further.
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@akaTheBARON said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3064716#Comment_3064716
I agree. Its a slippery slope if they started doing such restrictions. The second BHVR implements something like this, after the first time its going to be what 90% of what this forum becomes.
"The Artist or Freddy shouldn't have access to Dead Man's Switch" or "bubba shouldn't be able to use insidious" ect, ect, ect....
There are literally already restrictions in the game when it comes to perks working with powers.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065258#Comment_3065258
As with the others, I disagree with your solution for thana. Your solution to the perk will either outright just kill the already limited use of it or encourage ppl using m1s over their power which leads to boring play. Already the base kit buffs to the killer are going to encourage that type of playstyles meaning you see less and less of some killers(like demo) even using their powers to attack ppl. Either way I rather they rework thana make it more useful to other killers outside the two that can use it well. As someone said I think they should make it where you to get more value of it if one or two players are injured than having most of its value locked behind having all 4 survivors injured. The only reason you see legion and plague use it is that they are the only ones who can get any type of value from the perk. You never see a babba, artist, freddy, etc use the perk because they cant keep all 4 ppl injured.
Also, you bring up nurse and people being ok for perks not working with her blink. Well, Nurse isn't a normal killer... Her power is kinda broke alot of loops in the game and you cant loop her like other killers and has really overpowered addons that make her super hard to play against. She is an S rank killer and one of the most suppressive killers in the game so nerfing her that way would help make her fairer to go against. Legion and Plague are by no means in the same situation as nurse so it's not that fair of a comparison.
At the end of the day, I do agree the new thana will most likely cause problems for players who see legions and plagues and most likely will need to be revisited by the devs down the line but the way you want to nerf it isn't the way imo. It is better to rework the perk so it can be as useful on other killers but not over-suppressive on just two killers that aren't even near the top of the tier lists in power.
Like I said, they already restrict perks for many killers, even legion. And we both agree the perk combo with these killers is problematic now and even more so after the patch. If you change thana to be like people are suggesting in this thread, you are making it even more problematic for legion and plague. The issue is not the perk, it is the interaction with these powers. Most killers can't reliably take health states and keep people injured like these two killers. It is ridiculously easy to have all 4 people injured in a game as these two killers, and I think it is an oversight to continue to allow their powers to trigger thana.
It's crazy to me that just about everyone in this thread acknowledges that it is a problematic interaction, and everything you have proposed so far, would make it worse.
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@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065181#Comment_3065181
no it is a logical fallacy, that is a thing you should never use when you try to argue a point because they are not valid arguments :)
it is not gibberish but basics of discussing and argumenting any point with actual arguments.
facts are:
- plague and legion can use thana very well
- these 2 killers might cause problems while using thana because they can use it well
your point/arguments are:
- thana on legion and plague is a problem <- start of discussion, an opinion
- simply take away their ability to use a perk
- nerf their base kit ability or nerf add-ons/perks (literally my point, nerf thana if thana is the problem)
- legion's kill rate is skyrocketing <- where is the info from?
other people say (me included):
- nerf thana/rework it/do not buff it
- removing the ability to pick perks that synergize with killer powers will lead to every killer picking the same stuff much like survivor
- they need to work for it but less than others
- other killers can use other perks well as well and it is not a problem there <- this is also a logical fallacy
- restricting perks is unintuitive
- it is simply not a problem <- also an opinion
I don't think common sense is a logical fallacy, I guess we can just disagree there. I think it is also fair to assume the developers designed thana to not be turned on for 100% of the match at 4 stacks. That's the only point I was applying common sense to.
I didn't say to take away the perk from them, I don't think it should trigger off of their powers. I don't know where you saw me wanting their base power to be nerfed. Before the patch it was normal to 4k escape against just about every legion, the opposite is now the case (my experiences). I guess you will have to take my word for it, or wait until they release kill rates.
The main point I am trying to make is that I don't think the problem is the perk itself, but the interaction between the killer's powers and the perk. There are plenty of people that agree many perks shouldn't work with nurses blink hits, it isn't that much of a leap to say the same for legion. Let's not forget that sloppy butcher doesn't even apply to legions m2 hits. Restricting perks already happens, if it's unintuitive, you should take that up with the developers.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065054#Comment_3065054
I can't really input. They appear harmless enough but they're never picked. Never see them and when I picked them for dailies I just slapped anything I got out of the bloodweb by level 40.
Play a game with Never-Sleep pills with Mural Sketch, it makes using your power extremely trivial.
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@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065145#Comment_3065145
"common sense"
according to the comments i am reading, everyone writing here is either dumb or insane
also here is a random totally unrelated logical fallacy:
Appeal to Common Sense
Description: Asserting that your conclusion or facts are just “common sense” when, in fact, they are not. We must argue as to why we believe something is common sense if there is any doubt that the belief is not common, rather than just asserting that it is. This is a more specific version of alleged certainty.
That's not what common sense is, you just copy pasted some philosophical gibberish. If your facts or beliefs aren't accurate then it isn't common sense to begin with.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065145#Comment_3065145
Yeah anecdotal evidence and feels don't matter in reality at all. Your perspective is always going to be biased and skewed, numbers simply are.
How about we apply some science to see if "anecdotal evidence" doesn't matter. If they don't nerf nurse in the next year, you are right. If they do, I am.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065066#Comment_3065066
"Why would you need facts when my feels are just so strong?"
Common sense isn't based on touch, but sight.
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If you have a good reporting system and record game logs, you don't even need a crazy coded system to catch them. Let the player base do it for you, problem with this game is subtle hackers, it is very hard to tell if someone is only wall hacking.
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@XerraFox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3064854#Comment_3064854
I'd like to know exactly where this claim was confirmed
Why do you need a claim when we have common sense.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3065018#Comment_3065018
Are you saying Legion is OP?
Base kit, no. But some of his new addons, yes.
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@foxsansbox said:
While I agree mending isn't that fun, yall aren't really spending that much extra time on gens because of thana. He's not exactly kicking them or causing regression while he's frenzying around.
Also, you want killers nerfed and less diversity, this is how you end up with less diversity.
Having OP killers is also, how you end up with less diversity.
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Because with their updated addons you can reliably hit all 4 survivors with just about every use of their power. Pair that with thanatophobia and some other meta slow down perks, suddenly you are in a 30 minute dbd game where you were never going to win from the start.
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@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3064869#Comment_3064869
i d rather nerf thanatophobia lol
I don't think the perk is good enough for 99% of killers for it to be nerfed. Killers like Legion and Plague take it to an extreme level.
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For the people in here calling this a stupid idea. Would you rather they nerf Legion baseline, or adjust some of the addons or perks that are making his kill rate sky rocket right now.
Just curious
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063219#Comment_3063219
Add in anyone who is close to 120 perk tiers to 121. They'll go to P2 at level 50, where you can prestige them to P3 instantly.
Are you sure about them being at level 50? Is that how it works on the PTB?
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I can tell you what I am doing.
Prestige anyone who is not at least prestige 1 and doesn't have a ton of cakes or streamers.
Get anyone who is close to 171 perk tiers, to a 171 perk tiers.
Get anyone who has a ton of cakes to 171 perk tiers.
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I think it wouldn't be as bad for survivor if generator indicators were a little bit better so you could find them more easily. I am pretty good about memorizing gen spawn locations and I still have trouble with RPD gens.
And for killers, maybe wall hacks or something IDK.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062931#Comment_3062931
Nope. For the 10 seconds it blocks your scratch marks, it doesn’t consume any further tokens. Plus, I don’t think many of us can expect to go against an iridescent add-on Pig very often.
If this is true it bugged in a game I played a few weeks ago. I went from 4 to 0 stacks in a very miniscule amount of time against a pig who was crouched nearby.
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Pretty sure they said it was an unintended interaction that they are currently fine with.
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I was hoping they would tie hook states to NoED so killers who just chase one person all game and finally down them with NoED weren't rewarded for poor decisions. I think its good the perk is being addressed, but I would have liked a different change.
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It is better to reward people to play the game out rather than trying to punish them to a point that stops them from doing it. You have to ask yourself why people kill themselves on hook. Well as someone who does it very often, what is the point of finishing out an annoying game if I am already rank 1 and escaping only makes my games harder MMR wise? At that point the only reason I am in games is the enjoyment or blood points. If I am going to be tunneled anyway, blood points are out of the question, and so is my enjoyment. Escaping also only gives what 5kbp?
There are several ways to incentivize people to stay. Give a blood point multiplier for the game for escaping, you could even have it stack with each survivor that gets out along with you. Not only would this incentivize people to keep playing, but it also makes them want to play as a team. There are a ton of other ways they could do this, but taking away the ability to leave a game, or adding a dc penalty will just hurt the people who don't abuse the system.
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If you run distortion against a pig with Amanda's letter, your stacks get eaten up in about 5 seconds.
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If I was BHVR I would just start by fixing the addons people think are too strong, see where the numbers end up and go from there. I think blight would also benefit from a similar treatment before fixing hug tech.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060752#Comment_3060752
The priority queue won't do anything. Do you really expect Killer mains to start playing solo-survivor, when solo-survivor already has around a 38% escape rate. After this patch drops, the solo-queue escape rate is going to plummet even worse. No one wants to play an unfair game and solo-queue players are the least invested players in this game. Solo-queue players are either going to quit or change to killer if this patch releases as is.
I play both sides and I'm definitely going straight Killer after this patch drops. No way am I doing survivor. And if you are reading the forums, this is actually a very common thread I'm seeing from other half-and-halfers.
It definitely will, look at how many people run BBQ just for the blood point bonus. And, to speak on the soloQ experience after the patch. I am a mostly soloQ survivor who gets Iri1 pretty easily every month, I am not very worried. I am however excited for the light weight and off the record changes. Excited to not dread playing killer for my rituals because dead hards mostly dead. I may actually play killer more than once a day.
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I expect que times to balance out more with the introduction of priority que.
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You underestimate how many people will que for whatever role gives them more blood points.
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I am getting a little tired of the recent change to the MMR cap. I just played 3 games in a row with survivors who had no business being placed against the killer we played against. But, the second I swap to killer, back to back SWFs with flash lights.
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I'm going to be real man, it almost looks like you were letting them do the things. If I didn't know any better I'd say you were a paid actor. You maid so many poor calls in just the first 5 minutes, I couldn't watch any further.
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No but, I would love the ability to block players from being in my matches.
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@Moto_girl_bg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3045310#Comment_3045310
Yeah but agree for example now I was playing vs chainsaw who only camp one guy on hook and stay all time with him only to try one shot all, and this for me is noob playstyle, even if its tactics, because show no skills only waiting for one shot. Everyone can play like this u know. I noticed this BTW only on ppl who use chainsaw or leather face. I play with trickster, less op killer and still kill ppl with build and not camping.
In my opinion that is more of a game design flaw than the Billys fault. One hit downs should not work within a certain radius of hooked survivors. I don't get how the Twins and Artists powers don't work next to hook, but Bubba can just kill everyone around the hook and go through borrowed time with one chainsaw sweep.
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@Moto_girl_bg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3045297#Comment_3045297
Yes, I say because I play as killer and survivor too, I don't say only as survivor opinion, is more interesting to rush all and I use perk only for one shot after all gens are repaired so it's fair for all, I still succeed kill them even in end of the game without camping.
I get that camping first hooks can be really unfun and quite irritating. But, a lot of times in this game, camping is your only way back into a win. And trust me there are plenty of times where I could have camped to secure a win but I gave them another chance. It is without a doubt a tactic, and a risky one, as there are several ways to just counter or ignore it. That's why it works so well against SWFs, they won't ignore it, they will throw the game to unhook their friend.
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@Bwsted said:
Let's say this change takes the good ol' "if you didn't escape, was it really a skilled play?" to a whole other troll level.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3045273#Comment_3045273
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3045281#Comment_3045281
It gets deactivated when gates are powered, not at egc.
Oh RIP, that perks actually useless now.
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@Moto_girl_bg said:
Everyone who is camping is big noob for me, especially people who play with chainsaw or Michael Mayers with one shot and camp all time. That reminds me one name I remember some pc player name Bolt, only camp with Michael Mayers and one shot, no skills at all and bot movement. Good killer is not camper and depending on one shot only
I try not to proxy or even camp to try and make the game as fair as possible for the survivors. But, if I smell a SWF, and trust me they tend to reek, proxy/camping tends to be your only option. Having your movements called out after every hook, is going to make it impossible to find someone after every hook. You are forced to just wait for one of them to show up to unhook.
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@Tizzle said:
Deactivating DS during the end game is not good.
All it does is open up more complaints and reasoning for other perks to be deactivated, which will then be valid.
DS is deactivated why not xxxx perk
Terrible change.
All this change did is make 99 gates even more important. If you open a gate too early you could just be killing your friend who had DS. If you wait to open the gate until that person is literally standing in front of it, they will make it out. But, in the event he gets pulled off hook and tunneled, he still has a chance if the gates clsoed.
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@fulltonon said:
It's funny how people try to argue with this objectively bad change, they just want to start arguing for the sake of arguing I guess?
Because its not a bad change, if you notice this thread is only disputing the "75%" number that was thrown out, but even the math admits that it reduced the grind quite a bit. And that's even with OP cherry picking numbers.
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@DY86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043961#Comment_3043961
no it hasn’t. Jesus. Go and do the math urself man. The grind was reduced by only 18% and IF and ONLY IF u already have most killers and survs p3d. Which is not the case for most people. Otherwise ur just wasting more with the 50k toll and the tiny webs with useless clunk
You unlock 3 perks for 35 characters every time you prestige, on top of not losing any perks or items anymore. For that to not be huge, we must be doing math upside down.
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@Vlarian said:
This is why you don't argue with a math guy Jesus💀
All he did was cherry pick what the change had the lowest impact on. The overall grind has been reduced pretty drastically.
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If there are only 2 survivors left alive, you should be able to bleed out faster or instantly. The killer is just dragging out an already lost game, there is no exciting gameplay to be had with one person slugged and the other hidding.
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@ZVom said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043702#Comment_3043702
That is not true. The devs have been proven to be wrong with their idea. Community gave them everything they needed in order to effectively limit the grind,
If they choose one of ideas provided in this topic, then their behaviour would mean that they actually think about the game's issues, so it's not like whatever they say, we would whine - no. We whine because they want to make their product worse, and we as the customers know what can be done - We simply want to make use of something we've paid for.
I don't understand how the change is making the game worse when even the spread sheets provided show it reduces the grind quite a bit. And the spread sheets don't even take into account the priority que bonus. So yeah, you are just whining to whine, and devs are over it. Congrats, you played yourselves.
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Developers don't respond to posts that often because it only makes things worse. No matter what they say, you will be upset. So why even try?
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The funny part is, if a killer is using wall hacks there is almost a 0% chance you will notice. Because of the amount of aura perks that exist, and the fact that they can just argue they were mind gaming.
People like to point out who easy it is to tell if a survivor is cheating, but if a killer cheats subtlety, you will never know.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040396#Comment_3040396
There's 0 proof of this and based on the limited information the devs have released about her kill rate quite a few, if not the outright majority of nurses are underperforming.
Your comments don't play out like you think they do.
Alright, don't be surprised when your main gets gutted.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040375#Comment_3040375
whatever, I don't really care the word we uses, I'm just stating how much a killer is used in certain skill range doesn't equate to how much they win.
But, the very fact that most of the nurses and blights exist at the top end of the distribution, proves that they are strong. That's the nature of statistics.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040362#Comment_3040362
...yeah? I'm talking about usage rate at specific MMR, it means that 300 nurse players were on higher MMR, thus she is more used at higher MMR.
And usage rate has nothing to do with win rate, more nurse at high MMR is not more winning nurse at high MMR.
I would argue that the usage rate of killers almost never changes, unless they receive direct buffs/nerfs. Get a tome for challenges, or a youtuber makes a video.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040337#Comment_3040337
care to explain? I don't see any difference there.
Lets say you play on Monday and 300 nurse players que up, you don't see any because none were at your MMR. You play again on Tuesday and 300 nurse players que up, you go against 15 in a row. Has the usage rate changed. No, your MMR did.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040332#Comment_3040332
"why you see more nurses and blights at high MMR" is exactly same as "why usage rates of nurse and blight is high at high MMR", you seem to be plain illogical.
You seem to be mixing up distribution with usage rate.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040289#Comment_3040289
huh? usage rate doesn't equate to win rate at all, it just means she can win against lower MMR and just that... wonder why? because she is different.
Probably because that #1 slot is entirely made up with speculation and expectation, there is fair chance that the those two were much more oppressive and had much less counters in actual match.
You seems to be seeing something that doesn't exists from things.
I didn't say usage rate, I said why is it that you see more nurses and blights at high end MMR. You seem to be coping pretty hard.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3040289#Comment_3040289
What? Everyone happens to know their MMR and the MMR of their opponent? Unless you're on PC and breaking TOS, you have no way of determining that. You don't gain a set amount of MMR for every win, so no, winning X amount of games does not automatically put you at "high MMR". You don't even gain MMR in many cases depending on opponent skill level.
Spirit and Blight aren't Nurse and have nothing to do with her. Their changes were made for different reasons. Spirit gave players literally nothing to go off of outside of a bugged idle animation reset. And Blight's ability to hug is apparently not intended. None of those things have anything to do with Nurse. I won't even get into Nurse herself, because like OP said, nobody's mind is going to be changed.
Pretty sure my MMR goes up when I win, I don't need to be hackerman to know that. Another good tool they gave us to look at, is how many dead hards you encounter in each match, we literally have a chart for that. So if you are seeing 4 meta perks on all 4 survivors every game, its pretty easy to tell your MMR is high. I have a feeling a lot of people's minds are going to change when she ultimately gets changed/nerfed. Most of the community wants it, regardless of the numbers.