BadMrFrosty
BadMrFrosty
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- BadMrFrosty
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If you want to enjoy the game on a consistent basis with people your speed, then yes. Otherwise, no.
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@Alphasoul05 said:
This change brought to you by the balance team who believed, years later, there was some secrets to uncover to make Clown super strong.
This comment gave me the big pp. Thank you.
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Problem is, none of these perks are good enough post buff to replace reliable staples in a killer build. That is, if you take the game seriously. If you don't, then whether or not they got buffed doesn't matter anyway, since you would've thrown them on your meme builds regardless.
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Just goes to show you that an "add-on" rework is a nice way of tacking on unnecessary non-sense to a killer's kit. Unlucky.
Also, based on what I've seen thus far regarding some of the new add-ons, they either look awful, or as though they'll be required to get anything out of said killer.
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This nerf only targets a specific play style, which, while setting a dangerous precedent for future changes, isn't really something worth getting outraged about.
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I mean.. what would they move on to if they decided to stop supporting Dead by Daylight? Deathgarden? : )
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@Spirit_is_brainless said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1262576#Comment_1262576
You can't win by using sound logic and good reasoning with these devs, they pick and choose what they want to acknowledge. Doesn't seem like any of them can take criticism about their 5+ year old outdated hitboxes
I get why they do it. It's much easier to claim it's all latency then to actually redraw hitboxes for every character/related power in the game. If they intend to keep this game going beyond year five, it's a recommendation that they start planning some massive QoL updates, and fast. They're wrong, and I think they know it, but they would rather look stupid than have to do that much work from scratch.
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@Psychobeastz said:
Who knew that posting a meme would lead to such serious overheated conversations. Job well done sir you have ignited the soul of passionate dead by daylight players :)
You can only get hit in ways that don't make sense so many times before you're like.. "Yeah, this is fkin' dumb. Fix this stupid crap, devs." If they can't find a way to properly convey information when interacting with a killer's power, then there's another problem.
TLDR: Update/fix your game. Grace period is over, cash is rolling in, time to do right by your community or sink. We're at the point where it's just unacceptable. ; p
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I'd rather be on the Game than Hawkins. God the latter is such a massive piece of sht map with useless pallets everywhere.. save for like, 3?
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@thesuicidefox said:
I'd like to see what your alternative solution is to pill hitboxes.
And I can assure you that any solution you provide will have some jank to it as well. Truth is there is no perfect solution to hitboxes, there is only the one with the least amount of jank (which would be pill hitboxes).
Also as @Peanits said, most of the issues people have with "hitboxes" is actually latency.
The hitboxes on that TF2 character are exactly what the game should have. The giant red box/blue box is a perfect example of what -not- to do in games like this. Look how much space that blue box has to work with, most of which doesn't even touch the actual model. Ridiculous.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1262449#Comment_1262449
Again, no, it's not the hitbox. We have a great visual example in the stream we did about this: https://youtu.be/A8SwqJJKlaY?t=1135
You can see how it looks wildly different from the killer and survivor's perspective. For the killer, the survivor is in the window and it's totally a fair hit. For the survivor, they appear to be through the window and safe. This is not because the hitbox is massive (the hitbox used to detect hits is actually smaller than the survivor if anything: https://youtu.be/A8SwqJJKlaY?t=454), and again, it's not because the hitbox is flailing around uncontrollably like a deflating balloon. This is because of latency.
Latency is also not necessarily a server issue. Latency is an issue with the internet in general. Because you're not physically sitting in the same room as someone, it takes time for you to send information to each other. Data isn't magic, it's can't instantly teleport from your system to someone else's. It needs to physically move through cables of varying speeds and zigzag across the country (or even continent, where applicable) to get to them. This means that no matter what, there's going to be delay.
A server will add a tiny bit of delay to take in, handle, and send back out information (a few milliseconds), but the vast majority of it is due to distance. You can have a magical perfect server that instantly receives and immediately sends back out information and you would still have latency.
I understand that latency is a thing and can affect hits. But that's not the main argument I'm making. What I'm saying is, if I throw a hatchet-sized object, whether or not it connects should make sense to both parties. Even if you discount the unpredictability of internet performance, the hitboxes are still poorly done.
- You're throwing a hatchet at a survivor. The survivor (and the killer) have mentally established the area this object is capable of affecting based on its size/spin during a throw.
- What's happening right now, minus lag, is you're throwing hatchets with circles attached that are (most of the time) hitting other circles around the model, not the model itself. That is the issue.
You're sending conflicting messages to both players and training bad habits in the killer, which could only ever truly come to light with proper hitboxes. Survivors are seeing a "hit" when the hatchet did, in fact, completely miss - your inaccurate hitbox is at fault here, not the survivor. The huntress player, as an example, is therefore trained to hit "an area", not a survivor. That is the most effective way to play the killer. All of those trick shots become far less impressive when you realize most of them don't even make contact with a survivors model, but instead an invisible body barrier surrounding them.
- TLDR: Hatchets should only hit when making contact with the character model, not their poorly drawn hitboxes. Hitting the air around a survivor to score a hit shouldn't be a thing, especially not in 2020. And no, "it's just the internet" doesn't count for why most hits appear as complete horse crap 50% of the time. There is indeed a hitbox issue at play here that none of the developers seem to want to acknowledge. Can bad hits happen due to latency? Yes. Is this the only cause of non-nonsensical hits? No. Far from it.
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@Peanits said:
It bears repeating on a daily basis, but what you're referring to is not a problem with the hitbox, it's an issue with latency and hit authority. Contrary to popular belief, the hitboxes are not flailing around uncontrollably. The issue arises because what you see and what the killer sees are two different things. You might see yourself around the corner, but since that information takes time to get from your system to theirs, they see where you were a fraction of a second before, when you were still in the open.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1262384#Comment_1262384
They are both projectiles. Hitscan would mean you hit where you're pointing instantly, projectiles are an actual object with travel time (i.e. you have to lead your shots). The Deathslinger's spear is much faster and flies straighter than a hatchet, but they are both projectiles.
Well, the hitboxes -are- an issue, and the fact that you think they're not is baffling. In no way are those pills accurate to the actual shape of your characters. You even have videos showing the massive disparity between the size of the hitbox and the character. You have huge portions of the box hanging so far to the sides of each character that it makes impossible occurrences even more likely to take place (on top of subpar servers). They should be form-fittingly accurate based on each character's unique proportions, like most every other game.
Also, if the servers are the main problem.. well, what does it take to get -better- servers? Surely there's no shortage of income at the rate cosmetics come out. Maybe more of the cash flow could be redirected to better servers and the overall health of the game? Y'know, long term. These kinds of issues wouldn't be left as long in most other games with any sort of playerbase to speak of. People have limits, and this will eventually reach boiling point and cost DBD numbers.
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@LALYTHIA said:
"The hatchet shockwave hits the air around you" 😂🤣 facts.
This game has so many "close enough" shortcuts that it makes my head spin.
Director: We need hitboxes, does blueprints have anything we can paste on our character models?
Programmer: Uhh.. nope. There's nothing here for that.
Director: Alright, just make some from scratch.
Programmer: *Makes a giant pill that's massively oversized for the models they belong to.* Yeah. This is good.
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Likely because the game is poorly balanced and solely focused on monetary gains, not long term health. The developers have made their intentions pretty clear over the last two years. If you think it's getting any better in ways that matter, I've got bad news for you.
- Hitboxes are still completely unfinished (no, a pill is not a proper hitbox). It's more like a.. "good enough" solution for something that is required to be accurate and precise.
- Maps are still wildly unbalanced for both sides.
- Survivors have nothing engaging to do outside of a chase.
- Killers have no alternative objectives to vary their playstyle.
- Graphics haven't been improved in any major way (though this could wait).
- Bugs from two years ago are still floating around.
- Servers are still absolutely dreadful (worse than P2P average).
I could go on.. but this is just a small list of common crap most people complain about. The developers are long past their "grace period". Get your sht together.
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I just die on hook if I don't feel like playing a boring/decided match. Not going to waste my time trying super hard for 15 minutes only to have my team stick it in my azz at the last second. Nah, I'm good man. Next game.
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@SquirrelKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259869#Comment_1259869
I think he is trying to say that people who "camp" are basically patrolling around the hook rather than facecamping but do it for too long?
15 second rule. If the heartbeat doesn't vanish in around that time (unless the signs are obvious), then just do gens and leave the poor bastard on the hook. I know it sucks for them, and it's super lame, but their struggle time is +3 escapes if the game is played right. No reason to risk a close game turned by something like NOED at the last minute because people had to bumrush the hook.
@woundcowboy said:
I wish I could like this post more than once. Kill rates are so high 100% because survivors do some of the stupid things that you mention.
Yes. Correct. The only reason I lose most of my games (and I do ######### up sometimes, but not habitually), is due to hook bombing, good pallets going to waste early, and being sandbagged by teammates (happens more often than you think).
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@SquirrelKnight said:
Did you play a match against me last night? I feel like you saw the travesty of basement rushing that happened to me. A 0K to a 3K
I can't remember, but I have so many games that go this poorly it wouldn't surprise me.
@zone_dymo said:
Point is, Do gens or dont, the match is over anyway, like what value is there for anyone involved? if it was any sort of tournament it would be disqualified.
Also the real problem is campers who dont appear to camp, by the time you realize they are its already too late, too much time has been wasted.
But like I said, it does not matter, that match has had no value anyway, might as well just run up to the killer and die so you can go to hopefully an actual match after that.
I don't quite understand what you mean by this. Could you clarify?
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I really wonder how many 'good' huntress players would stick with the killer if both her hatchets and survivors had proper hitboxes.
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I'd give up all of them for solid servers and proper hitboxes for everything.
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@Rullisi said:
Latency can never be 100% fixed. Hitboxes in dbd are actually completely correct and fine.
False. A 'rough pill' around several different shapes with varying sizes is not 'completely correct and fine.' Look at any other video game in existence where hitboxes are a huge factor for reference. Hitboxes in DBD are the result of laziness or the developers not knowing how to program them in properly. Period.
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I think a lot of people have become embittered by the state of the game they love so much and the tone deaf developers in charge of it. Just my two cents, though.
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Blendettes that do gens/save, fine. Cool. At least they're doing something. Those that just crouch around the map, touch a gen for 3 seconds until the slightest fart of a heartbeat exists, and urban away.... fk u. You're literally the worst.
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Unless you're going up against the 5% of the people in this game that are actually good (unlucky solo queue teams/SWF), I can't fathom how you're having a hard time in an average game. It's never been easier for killers, imo.
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Running a huntress in this game is literally a 50/50 almost half the time unless you get a good survivor map.
- You're behind a wall? Completely and totally? J/k, get hit.
- Dodge a hatchet? Yes, but no. The shockwave from the hatchet hit your invisible body.
The information conveyed by the killer's power is inaccurate, and can leave survivors feeling cheated. This could be fixed with more accurate survivor/hatchet hitboxes. That takes time and effort, plus it's not a cosmetic, so BVHR isn't interested in changing it. Just get used to shockwave anime hatchets, I don't think they're going anywhere, probably because there was no easy copy/paste code for auto-generated, accurate hitboxes in blueprints. : )
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1252703#Comment_1252703
What about the Saw map?
Once every pallet is down (there are a ton of solid pallets on this map), then sure, the map is killer-sided. Against a good team, the exit gates are powered and being opened before they're all down.
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The game is not killer sided in a scenario where everyone is either good and of equal skill (all solos) or they're a seal team SWF. Other than that, the game is massively killer sided. Your average survivor is terrible, and all but the most dimwitted of killers is intelligent enough to drop difficult chases and go for someone else on the off chance they're bad.
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@BloodMoneyMerc said:
@Exerlin Unbreakable has no effect if the killer doesn't slug you, so I can't give it S.
@xEa I find empathy gives more info than bond. (Who killer is chasing, who needs a heal, who can heal you thats also injured) Head On & Breakout can be deadly on organizaed SWF. Self-care provides an ability to heal without a medkit that only one other perk can do (being Inner Strength). I find OoO to be a gamble (with who killer is & their skill level). Breakdown in better with the new sabo meta, plus seeing the killer's aura is always a plus. MoM requires too much for so little a reward. Why use Distortion when you can just hop in a locker. Red Herring is meh, too early to fully decide. And Small Game is a bias of mine. It's what I use to Hex hunt. Just my explanations for why I placed these perks you mentioned where I did.
@CheersTC Autodidact is only good in medic builds (if skill checks work in your favor). Aftercare is good, but Empathy & Bond are far superior.
@Jameson Sprint Burst can always be used, while Lithe requires that something to vault. Sprint Burst also can be saved until the middle of a chase (usually pulled off by more experienced survivors). For Fixated/Better Together, they provide an ability that can benefit new players the most (I also said they shouldn't have to be paid for). Spine Chill is still useful even for experienced players, hence why it's not a new player perk. And BL, Botany, & Resilience all provide something really useful to the survivor which why they are A. BL is the only one I could possibly see being lower since it is map dependent.
Killers that don't slug aren't the ones you're worried about. You'll likely be out the door within 5 - 6 minutes in those matches. Unbreakable is S tier.
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@Kellie said:
Only killer I've seen be called boring by a large group of the community is Freddy, cause he is boring. And can people stop generalizing survivors as someone who just wants to bully a killer. Its not healthy at all.
People are addicted to being the victim. What can you do..
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Cripple: Reduces the speed bonus received by survivors hit with a killer power or basic attack (25/35/45%). Numbers are w/e but that's the general idea for the perk.
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Undetectable should also mute breathing, footsteps, and all other audio cues a killer can give until the status is broken. Spine chill would make more sense as a counter if your ears didn't work at all.
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Bet that doorway took a lot of time, effort, and consideration. Look at it! So complex, so difficult. It'd be nice if there was a blueprint you could copy/paste to solve this issue sooner. Glad you guys Einstein'd your way to fixing one of several problematic areas! Good job.
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No, because it's the only exhaustion perk that might as well read.. "TREMENDOUSLY increased chance to not work and exhaust you anyway."
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"I'm finally quitting DBD."
"April Fools, idiots."
: (
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Imagine liking the ######### out of a new killer concept, only to realize it's April Fool's and BVHR would never actually be this creative.
UN
LUCKY
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The game rarely changes in meaningful ways because the developers take the laziest possible approach to balance and design (basically anything that requires real work or resources that they can dedicate to skins/art is put on the perpetual backburner).
Here are some widely accepted facts about Dead by Daylight:
- Gameplay loop has been unchanged for years now, and both killer and survivor have remained the exact same since launch.
- Potentially new features are implemented poorly (breakable walls as a recent example).
- Developers consistently make excuses to avoid leaving their 'comfort zone' of game development. Examples include: unwillingness to dedicate resources to improving server infrastructure, give models proper/accurate hitbox sizes, fix longstanding bugs, etc.
- They have specific moderators/users dedicated to only championing their cause in posts/agreeing with their design changes, even if they're objectively awful.
- It's plain to see that most of their monetary funds go into art/character design (the one thing that's spot on every time). Yes, I am aware that separate teams work on different sections of the game, but it's way too clear at this point which teams receive the most backing/help/hires/whatever.
This game will only get to an acceptable standard if some solid competition exists in the genre and rises up to challenge BVHR, or if people stop playing in droves.
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It's not the killer that is determining these games, it's your teammates. Most people suck at this game, and they pretty much have made a career of literally sabotaging all possible odds of winning for solo survivors. Rarely will you get a good team, where everyone has a competent level of skill (when you do though.. feelsgoodman).
In a game of average killer vs average survivors with no variables, it's in the killer's favor. Put them both at the highest possible level, and things swap around.
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The fact that any of the developers, -ANY- of them think that people legitimately give a ######### about a ranking system with no benefit is just... wowee/10.
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An addict rarely knows why they're so susceptible to relapse, they're content to merely ask why and administer the fix in spite of it.
- Sunk cost fallacy.
- Addictive gameplay loop.
Those are likely your reasons.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161416#Comment_1161416
The devs have literally stated that they strive for a 2k/2e average. its literally here on the forums. Unless you are calling them liars. And even if they are malicious like you think they are, it is a terrible idea to let their "cash cow" be extremely unbalanced, otherwise it won't last much longer and then it wouldn't be a very good cash cow.
I don't think the developers are malicious at all, just not very bright. What I think is that they got lucky with this game and have been a 'victim' of its success since. If DeathGarden proved anything, it's that BVHR is a one-trick pony at the moment with Dead by Daylight. They're sticking with it because they have no other alternative, but also due to the fact that they've cornered and maintained a stranglehold on a very niche market. They know this. We know this. It's not a secret.
Additionally, their proposed idea of balance might be a legitimate goal, but I've serious doubts that they have a single clue how to get there. What I honestly think - and here is where we're speculating, is that they get together in some boardroom meetings and go.. "What are some problems we can address with the game?" to which maybe 1 or 2 of the developers who give a crap will mention things that matter, like map design, fixing bugs, or reworking objectively terrible killers. Then, some management figure likely brings up how much time/money that would cost to dedicate resources to and instead orders them to do minimal fixing while allocating more budget to the cosmetics team.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161358#Comment_1161358
This is a terrible excuse. I guarantee the devs do not feel this way. And saying that "its just a party game" is going to result in a lot of people quitting this game. People play games to have fun, and what is not fun is something that is completely 1 sided. Imagine playing checkers (your example) but one side gets to move twice every turn while the other can only move once. Not much fun for the guy moving only once right? But its just checkers man, its fun its a party game, stop taking it so seriously. it makes it unfun and nobody will want to play that version of checkers.
I said this in another thread but will basically TLDR it here:
- BVHR is not aiming for balance in the slightest, they're aiming to simply keep their live service cash cow afloat while making minor, low effort changes within their 'comfort zone'. See: Lazy in the thesaurus. After 4 years of this game being out, thinking or saying anything else is merely willful ignorance or delusion. If you need further proof of this claim, look at how many maps per year are being reworked. That alone should say everything. Most of their budget likely goes to hiring more artists for their cosmetic department rather than game testers/designers.
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Well, not necessarily a killer main, but I play a decent chunk of killer and I can probably guess why I still do it:
- Sunk cost fallacy.
- Ridiculous levels of cartoon-like stupidity.
- Sunk cost fallacy.
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No, it's not toxic. I get that a game ending that way can be lame for survivors, but in all honesty, unbreakable exists, and the feeling they get from a 4-man slug loss is the same the killer gets when 3 generators pop after a 25 - 30 second chase.
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This game is 4 years old. I think the 'be nice' period is long over and the 'get your sht together period' has begun. Reasonably so, in my opinion. People's patience is limited.
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I always find it funny that the strong killers are considered 'boring' or 'unfun'. Surely a coincidence, right? >.>
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@Rivyn said:
There's more to this game than looping, you know. I find it rather sad that a game that's supposed to be about horror, boils down to running circles around junk.
The most sane thing I've ever heard on this forum. I bought this because it was marketed as a horror game, not an action game.
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Pretend he's clown, and suddenly he's not that intimidating. Dropping pallets early is the key to beating him while also reeling in your greed (lel pun). Do that, and he's not much of an issue. I think his use will fall dramatically in the coming months.
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Deathslinger isn't that strong, as he suffers from the worst possible disadvantage in this game, one that single-handedly keeps him from being good (lack of map pressure). Although I do find it somewhat amusing that you don't seem to enjoy the idea that, according to you, "there's just not much you can do against him if he's a good shot." Isn't it frustrating when you perceive the chase to be entirely dictated by the skill of one side, but not the other? Sounds like a sentiment echo'd by the killer base for some time now.
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@SurvivorsAreRuined said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1159533#Comment_1159533
Such a killer sided response it’s ridiculous. Do you even survivor? Smh. I highly disagree with almost everything you say except for shortage of killers. The shortage of killers is most likely due to ruin crutch players that threw a hissy fit at the nerf. Or just the fact that the devs made it harder to help manage gens enough to slay all 4 with ease. I am a strong believer that killing all 4 needs to be far from a consistent thing for anyone. I play killer and I get nothing short of 3 kills a game even whilst playing higher ranks. It can be too easy for most of these killers/perks yet you guys still complain and want more. It grows tiresome.
I play solo survivor and killer, probably about a 60/40 in favor of survivor. I can tell you right now, the main enemy I face every game isn't the killer, but my teammates who are allergic to generators. If I do poorly in a game or don't pull my weight, I realize it immediately and try to rectify it in future games to the best of my ability. Before ruin was removed, I almost never used it, and my results in games haven't changed too much, with a 4k every so often, some 2ks, and the odd blowout where most of the survivors get away, sometimes save 1. Bear in mind that I've stopped taking this game too seriously, and while I might not be making the most optimal of MLG plays at all times, that still won't stop me from calling out the BS that has been in this game since the beginning.
I don't mean this as an insult, but what was I expecting from someone whose name is survivorsareruined? I agree that there are frustrating aspects to this game for both sides, and yet in spite of it all, when it comes to the most influential role in the game when played at its best, survivor wins this by a long shot. A combination of second chance perks and map design along with the ability to stack the deck by playing with friends on discord (which is totally understandable - game is far more tolerable with friends) tip the scales of this game in the survivor's favor. If you cannot see that, then the question here is not whether or not I play survivor, but whether you play killer at all.
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His power is not good enough to warrant being as slow as he is. It also has an impressive amount of built in counterplay for the survivors as it is. An idea I had for his power to feel more rewarding and to raise his skillcap/make him viable is as follows:
- If the harpoon would travel beyond 18M, it loses the ability to hook and reel survivors, however, if the harpoon makes contact with a survivor, it deals a health state of damage and -can- down survivors.
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In a post-unbreakable game, survivors have no excuse for losing to a 4-man slug strategy. You have a perk meant to mitigate or negate this kind of pressure, and it has disgusting synergy with decisive strike (60 second invulnerability in lockers), a perk likely used in more than 70% of all games. Most of the survivor-sided maps in the game are still heavily survivor-sided, even if they've seen some minor tweaks here and there. So let's summarize:
- Most maps that were broken years ago are now just 'overpowered', some having legitimate 'lose points' where if the chase goes there, you either abandon it or lose the game. A 'safe space' in a horror game, if you will.
- Most of the new perks that are coming out for both sides are either extremely niche, require other perks to be usable, or are just complete garbage.
- The killers that are being released for the state the game is in, on average, are totally underpowered against more coordinated groups. If it wasn't for new/terrible players in DBD, it would die overnight, as no killer would take a single win off of any survivor team.
- Camping and tunneling are still two highly effective strategies due to the speed at which generators are completed, and, while not enjoyed by survivors, is almost essential to some degree if a win is desired on the killer's end (especially with ruin being rendered useless, for the most part).
- Killer variety at red ranks, based on my own experience and those of the few players I watch play this game, is still at an all time low. Same 3 - 4 killers with an oddball thrown in on the rare occasion.
What we all need to understand at this point in DBD's cycle is this: the developers do not wish to create a balanced game where the skill of either side determines the victor, they want to nurture a live service business model filled with cosmetic microtransactions. Survivors outnumber killers by a vast degree, and thus, from a business perspective, it makes the most sense to cater to them, as their buy power outstrips that of the killer by a staggering margin. BVHR has proven time and time again that they do not know how to balance or program, and while I'm not a professional in either category, I've played enough games in my life to have an idea of what a reasonable standard is for both. The only thing keeping DBD relevant at the moment is a lack of strong competition, as other games in its genre have long since died out.