AmpersandUnderscore
AmpersandUnderscore
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317724#Comment_3317724
The sad thing is, it will not be disabled, because it is working as intended. Them being unable to playtest it properly and releasing it in that state is sadly not a reason to disable it (at least for them).
(Like, for real, I am really curious how they playtested Eruption to get it to live in this state. They probably did around 3 games testing the Perk, thought it was good and kinda forgot that it hurts Solos more than SWF (while still being good against SWF) and that there is a difference between dealing with it 3 games or basically every game you play)
I find it interesting that some perks are instantly destroyed when the community discovers how broken it is. Boil over and Thana both got buffed to the point the usage spiked, but then got nerfed again within like a week or two.
Maybe it's just that the balance team monitors numbers soon after a balance patch and can make quick adjustments, but things like Eruption didn't bubble to the surface for a month or so after the balance changes.
To be fair, the incapacitation on Eruption isn't nearly as bad if the perk is rare. It's never really been an issue before the perk was giga buffed, and even at 26 seconds it still might be ok if you only saw it once a month. Like blast mine, it'd be more of a 'ha ha, ya got me' and then you don't see it for another month.
But being in every single game is just oppressive.
My only consolation is that the perk usage rate is very high, and BHVR is aware of the feedback. Those are currently two things that at least will get a perk looked into.
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@Xernoton said:
Prove Thyself alone is only problematic because it reduces the time a killer has in the game, which is already limited. It allows survivors to do a gen incredibly fast by just grouping up. Sure, if the survivors were all spread out across the map they still could progress just as fast (in theory) but that also increases the chances of the killer finding them. Then there is also the early and late game. With Prove Thyself you can more often than not finish the first gen before the killer even has a chance to get there. The same applies to the last gen, if the killer doesn't have enough slowdown to stop that.
The real problem comes from Prove Thyself stacking with other things like toolboxes, Hyperfocus + Stakeout etc. This just gets ridiculous.
Prove thyself used incorrectly is less efficient than just splitting up on gens.
For numbers, 2 survivors working on a gen with PT take 46.04 seconds, so if they stick together then 2 gens takes 92.08 seconds (ignoring travel time). If they just split up and did two different gens separately, then those same 2 gens complete in 90 seconds. This doesn't even consider the fact that, together they can both be chased off the gen, but apart, the killer can only pressure one at a time.
Other perks/items don't make prove more efficient, they only modify these base timings of the gen, so the inefficiency of using prove incorrectly never fully goes away. If you hit 6 Hyperfocus skill checks, you're still better off doing so alone.
So as long as there's more than one gen available, survivors are *slower* working together on gens. The savings comes for survivors at one gen remaining. The only possible exception is if all survivors spawn together and can finish the first gen before the killer interrupts them, which is a huge gamble early game. In most situations, using PT at the wrong time is *buying* the killer both time and possible pressure.
The problem with PT combined with other things is only the 'other things'. Is BNP too much? Probably. I'd rather see it become a 'use above 50% progress and the gen locks in, cannot regress below 50%.' Hyperfocus is generally fine, but shouldn't work with toolboxes, similar to autodidact and med kits. I also think toolboxes should have double or even triple the charges, but provide no more than 10% repair speed regardless of add-ons.
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Gens will always get completed at the start of the game unless you get extremely lucky with map and survivor spawns. I generally only use corrupt on trapper since I can do a bit of setup early while survivors are rotating the map to avoid blocked gens.
I get much more value out of lethal pursuer at the start of the game on most killers. I always go toward the largest group I can see immediately, mostly to disrupt and encourage them to move across the map (so getting similar value to corrupt), as well as first down. Added benefit is that immediate pressure usually means they have no time to get their bearings and find the 'strong comfort tile', so first down is usually either super quick, or reasonably fast with them panic dropping the first pallet they find.
The other thing is I almost never find value camping or going back to hook. It's my job to give survivors something else to do other than gens. Going back to the hook is interrupting the only two survivors I know for certain aren't doing gens at that moment. The other two need something to worry about. I usually run an info perk like BBQ or Darkness Revealed so I can go get immediately into the next chase. Both of these get value from lethal, but have their blind spots. But if you know maps and locker spawns you can still generally figure out where people are with DR even if their auras don't show.
Freddy might be able to get value out of dead man's switch, because you can fake your teleport and cancel it when they let go of the gen to block it. It won't work as well on experienced survivors, but when it works it's a good stall on that gen.
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You could give the affected survivor(s) a repair speed debuff for a duration. Something like 50% reduction in repair speeds for 20 seconds would mean that, if a survivor just kept working on the gen while debuffed, they would roughly break even with the 10% progress lost due to the initial hit.
Basically still a waste of 20 seconds over not having the perk, but survivors can still choose to either do the gen slower or do anything else at regular speed.
It would function as slowdown and still encourage survivors to do something else, but still allow them to go do anything else useful.
Or make the incapacitation variable based on how much gen progress there is when the gen is kicked. So kicking a 5% generator you only get stunned for about 1.5 seconds, but at 50% it's longer.
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My problem with these scenarios has basically nothing to do with tunneling, but rather camping.
I almost never see instant unhooks as survivor or killer, ever. And I don't hold it against a killer to hook, break a pallet, circle the area just in case and then leave.
But I get an incredible number of killers who never leave the hook, or patrol literally nothing while keeping the hook in view. No attempt to go interrupt gens or apply pressure, just waiting for the unhook for an easy trade.
Base kit BT lasts 10 whole seconds. If someone is actually blocking a hit with it, maybe you should be asking yourself why you're back at the hook so fast.
These are the killers I picture screaming about gen speeds, because they never attempt to pressure gens. They only ever interact with the hooked and unhooker and then wonder why the other two are 'gen rushing' rather than standing still afk.
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@Crowman said:
No one was running Iron Maiden for a niche situation of locker flashlight saves. While I won't say Iron Maiden is a great killer perk, it's certainly better than you are giving it credit.
Besides locker reload killers it also helps:
Doctor: as lockers hard counter his static blast and allows him to still get info and maybe a down from a survivor using lockers against his power.
Darkness Revealed: as faster locker search allows you to quickly check a locker to get the aura reveal.
Vs Head On: as if you dodge the stun the survivor is now in a much riskier position.
Leatherface: There's a small window to time against Leatherface's tantrum to exit the locker without being hit or grabbed. If a survivor pulls of this timing, they get exposed and instead of forcing an M1 hit to extend the chase they go down anyways.
Stealth Survivors: Ever had a match where a single survivor was hard to find. Likely they were hiding in lockers, but you'll never know. That is unless you had Iron Maiden. Remember hearing screams throughout the match because of Iron Maiden? Now you have a reason to start checking lockers to find this elusive survivor.
I hopped in a locker to avoid bubba's saw only to be exposed by iron maiden once. I was so outplayed in that moment I couldn't even be mad.
I also run IM sometimes on the artist. It's faster to clear crows by locker hopping than to swat them normally, but iron maiden is a fun surprise to survivors who try it. It's not crazy effective, and not really worth the perk slot, but I sometimes go for making survivors panic more than anything.
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I've offered myself for sacrifice quite a bit. Most recently had a spoon Myers who got some good jump scares in and had a really fun game. He carried me to the exit, but I crawled back in to let him use the Mori he brought. It's the kind of player interaction I miss, tbh.
I care about escaping far less if I had fun throughout the match, especially if the killer has a sense of humor. The slow turn some killers do after a blast mine gets me every time. Good back and forth in chase, or even the 'look around' when clearly that hit was due to lag.
I've offered myself far, far less since 6.1 though. Feels like every game is a sweaty comp tunnel fest now and fun interactions are few and far between. And if you're slugging for the 4k like almost every killer does now, I'm going to do my best to either escape or run you for the entire EGC duration.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315886#Comment_3315886
Escaping chase, and/or recovering health states before a survivor is hooked, would be an equivalent to regression a gen.
Think about it, a hook for the killer means getting through at least two health states, and then putting that survivor on a hook. If a killer loses a survivor and they heal back up, or they're denied the hook, that's their objective going backwards.
Every time a survivor who is unhooked heals back up, that's also technically the killers objective going backwards. Hell a survivor getting unhooked at all is the objective going backwards if you're only counting kills instead of individual hook actions.
Generally, I agree with you. A hook stage is more similar to a gen at 100%. Locked in, can't be undone, but until that point there's some back and forth that can occur. Maybe you block progress (sabo/deadlock/eruption), maybe you regress it a bit (heals/kicks), there are options available. But that's not the argument I'm responding to.
The argument specifically claims that a gen at 33% is identical to one hook stage. That is completely false because of regression. Once that hook stage is locked in, there's no going back. That doesn't occur for gens until 100%.
Using our analogy, leaving a gen at 33% is more like a hit and run playstyle to injure everyone. You might get extra pressure doing so, but most likely all that work is going to be completely undone. And you really shouldn't be surprised that your effort is set back.
Edit for clarity.
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Why? Why can you go to literally any map where you know you can camp that 3 gen from the start using your perks to prevent survivors from finishing gens?! What a fun match.
I don't see how two people running boil over is something to be irate over. Especially since BHVR has specifically targeted areas like Thompson house and RPD library in the past to mitigate this kind of strategy. You aren't seeing this regularly, this is a one-off game.
On the other hand, the other team bringing a full perk loadout designed to prevent you from progressing your objective in any meaningful capacity is literally killer meta right now.
The frustrated player in me wants to see boil over become survivor meta. It won't solve anything, but it looks like we'll have Eruption in every match for another 3 months at least. I think you can survive one bad game like this every 6 months.
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This sounds like it could be a fun limited time mode, have it around for maybe a weekend or a week and then cycle to something else in a month or two. Just looking enough to be fresh, but short enough to avoid having a hard meta emerge and make it stale.
But definitely not the core game. Just off the top of my head, even with these restrictions, people would just run: Eruption, CoB, Nowhere to Hide, Lethal, and deadlock.
It's basically current meta, plus lethal, with deadlock instead of another kick perk like overcharge, since deadlock doesn't regress gen progress. Even if you restrict 'regression' to 'any slowdown' then deadlock gets replaced by Tinkerer instead.
Players will use that slot to have 5 slowdown no matter what restrictions you put on it. And that doesn't even touch on the fact that strong killers/builds like starstruck nurse can now add a regression perk to that build literally for free.
Edit: autocorrect
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@Hrofn said:
If i ever see survivors NOT tunneling their objective, as in do 1/3 of a gen then move on, 1/3 next (just like killers taking 1/3 of their objective's hook states) then I won't tunnel my objective. But since every match I've ever played has had survivors tunneling gens, it's only fair killers like myself tunnel back in return. Equally fair play.
These two objectives don't even function the same to be equivalent.
Among other things, survivors can't "kick a hook" and regress a hook state back to zero for a survivor who isn't dead.
So you're arguing that all gens should be permanently locked in when they hit 33% and 66%, so they can never regress below that value again. Because that's how hook states work.
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There is a smaller pool of maps that are weighted more heavily that rotates every day or so. Sometimes I will go a week without going to the swamp, but then it will be in rotation and I'll go there 3 games in a row. You're definitely not rolling from every possible map in the game every time you start a new match, but there are maybe 8ish maps from the overall pool that are weighted for that day.
The system is RNG, but I'm not sure if the map pools are picked at random, or curated by BHVR. I've definitely had nights though where I get, say, Midwich 4 times in a row.
Unless you're getting a lot of map offerings, it should just be down to RNG. The MMR system should be the only factor that is deliberately trying to influence the difficulty of your match (i.e. give you evenly matched opponents) and the arena should always be randomly chosen.
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@MrsMaliciousX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360768/enough-is-enough
I completely agree. It's amazing that someone's "fun game" can be over in a matter of like 2 mins. It's most definitely gotten a lot worse. I started playing about 5 years ago almost 6. And I mean there was some back then but not NEARLY as bad
Not to mention, a 'omgwtf' level of terrible killer game is, what, 22k blood points? 16k if you don't get a single hook all game? Pretty sure you can clear 25k just by kicking gens and never injuring anyone.
Lethal pursuer, first chase, face camped to death as survivor can be as low as like 2k if you didn't even get to touch a gen once. Couple of those in a row and it's time to take a break.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314458#Comment_3314458
I see "your fun is not my responsibility" here all the time.
I mean, if DS penalty is harsher, they would just suicide on hook or afk. The best part of it is the time people DC will be less because of waiting.
100% this.
Not to mention the people who are most likely to say this actually mean: 'I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure your game is as unfun as possible'.
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@WesCravenFan said:
It all comes down to people riding that "I bought the game and if I am not having fun I have a right to quit!" attitude.
It's all about them. Screw everyone else!
DC isn't something people should be doing, and every player who does it is going to have their own 'reason' for it. And even having a 'reason' isn't an excuse.
But if you spend any time at all online where people talk about this game, you'll inevitably hear the phrase 'I'm not responsible for your fun'.
Going out of your way to ruin someone else's match is literally the only goal of some players.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312723#Comment_3312723
Same as suiciding/DCing survivor but WITHOUT leaving 4 other player in an unfun match.
The game turns off the matchmaking system when a lobby dodge occurs. Instead of looking for a 'fair' match, it heavily prioritizes finding the next warm body that can fill that slot as fast as possible.
This can lead to insanely imbalanced matches. So sometimes you get a killer who just bought the game who gets put in a 3k hour SWF lobby, and sometimes you get the other way where a solo q group of newer survivors gets matched with a 5k hour nurse.
So a killer lobby dodging can potentially create an unfun match for all 5 players.
If I notice the killer dodge the lobby, I cancel as well and requeue and try to let the rest of the team know to do the same so it just closes the lobby completely. I get far more consistent games that way.
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The cenobite going afk and blocking the box without attempting to do anything else is griefing and against the game rules.
This manner of playing is 100% reportable of you find someone doing this in your game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313842#Comment_3313842
- BHVR buffs faster gen perks (or leaves strong ones untouched).
- BHVR adds in very strong gen perks. PTS/Hyperfocus/Stakeout are the big 3.
You're kind of losing me here, because the only perk that was added was Hyperfocus, and none of the gen perks were changed in 6.1.
He's cherry picking to make it seem like the killer situation is hopeless.
There have been exactly two gen perks buffed since 6.1: deja Vu got a 5% gen speed boost to only the gens you see for those 60 seconds, and Overzealous was increased from 5% to 8% for dull and 10% to 16% for hex. These are the perks he's complaining about. Oh no, not Overzealous...
He's also ignoring that less than half of gen slowdown changes were nerfs: the meta perks like ruin, pop, corrupt, Thana ended up with a net nerf over a couple patches, and I'll even be charitable and say Tinkerer is on the list.
Buffs were: Jolt has no cooldown now, base kit gen kick removes 2.5%, Eruption regression increased and longer incap, overcharge now speeds up to 200%, Gift of Pain penalty increased, Pain Res only lost information (not regression), and combined with DMS the combo is literally unchanged. And 10 extra seconds to base kit gen times on top of all that, so things like Pentimento and Dying Light, which didn't receive direct numbers changes, are proxy buffed by the extra 10 seconds on all gens.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313389#Comment_3313389
I'm not joking.
While SoloQ can rough, I've certainly encountered players who have good game sense to do that kind of thing. I'm not saying it's easy, but there's no point in which an AFK Pinhead is capable to stopping the game from progressing completely.
The build is no different from the old AFK Pig build people used to run before they changed the pig box mechanic to make it impossible.
It's counterable if you know exactly what to do AND you coordinate with other survivors nearly perfectly. So SWF/comms can, but good luck getting solo q to do it.
Not to mention, the killer isn't trying to get downs, hooks, or kills with this particular strat. This is the definition of griefing and is reportable according to the game rules.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
I mean, if he's just standing on the box, he's not stopping gens, is he? Slowing them down, sure, but you can still do 'em.
The common (someone made a YouTube video) build for this is hex: face the darkness, sloppy butcher, hex: thrill of the hunt, and insidious. Combined with the add-ons that block survivors from seeing the box and one that shows the cenobite the box location.
You injure one survivor and go stand on top of the box for the rest of the game.
So there's a permanent chain hunt because you're body blocking it. Face the darkness can't be cleansed because, with thrill, it takes 28 seconds to cleanse the totem, but they are forced to scream and interrupt the cleanse every 25 seconds. You can't heal the injured survivor because of sloppy and the interrupts.
The game is a win, but is guaranteed to be an excruciatingly long match for survivors.
With the snowmen, you get insidious for free and can put ruin in for even longer matches. At that point, you have a 45 minute slog for survivors who basically earn nothing in two categories for the game.
And the killer can go afk after the first minute.
Edit: autocorrect.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312844#Comment_3312844
Here's the thing though.
Regression perks were, for the most part, nerfed across the board and 10 seconds were added on to gens.
However, BHVR than buffed some faster gen perks out the wazoo, left some stronger ones untouched and added more perks along these lines - meaning that, in a SWF, you can do gens faster than in 6.1.0.
Eruption may or may not get nerfed (and when it does, yay, we can go back to complaining about PR or something until that gets nerfed) but killers don't run deep regression because it's fun.
They run deep regression because there's always a chance your next match will be a bunch of gen bunnies with a nasty map offering (and because outside of regression, killers don't have many universally useful perks that aren't info related, and info gets redundant fast).
'Nerfed across the board' is a massive exaggeration. The meta slowdown was nerfed, specifically the meta perks ruin, pop and corrupt, and eventually Thana got a net nerf after being overtuned for a bit. I'll even be generous and say Tinkerer was a slowdown perk that was nerfed. Everything else was either buffed or unchanged for regression.
Jolt has no cooldown now, base kit gen kick removes 2.5%, Eruption regression increased and longer incap, overcharge now speeds up to 200%, Gift of Pain penalty increased, Pain Res only lost information (not regression), and combined with DMS the combo is literally unchanged. And 10 extra seconds to base kit gen times on top of all that.
'Buffed faster gen perks' is just laughable. The two perks that got any kind of buff at all were Deja Vu and Overzealous... these are still not worth a perk slot. Spine chill was nerfed and no longer provides even a situational repair speed boost.
The only two new perks that affect gens are Hyperfocus and Potential energy, and PE makes overall gen progress *slower* by it's design. Hyperfocus is the only valid complaint here since it shouldn't be able to work with toolboxes, imo.
It's not that gen speed perks were 'buffed', the most common perks weren't changed at all. So with 10 extra seconds of gen time, survivors are still taking longer to do gens than before 6.1. What happened is that more survivors are running gen speed perks now than before, with the occasional Hyperfocus/stakeout player.
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The perk is absolutely overtuned. It needs to either have some kind of warning or telegraph so there is a method of counter play, or the perk needs restrictions on when it can be used.
Even a 25 second incapacitation would be more tolerable if eruption was limited to only affect one gen at a time, expired after a set time, only activated on downing a survivor, or even if the cooldown applied on kick instead of on down.
As it is, the perk is effectively always available with infinite uses and no counter play. That's way too much for a perk that removes a player from regular gameplay for nearly half a minute.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311873#Comment_3311873
And it is your last sentence that is the problem. No, it should not be able to be avoided completely.
So you agree with the first part of that same sentence: that it needs restrictions.
The previous meta gen kick perk was pop, which required a hook, was only active 45 seconds, and worked on only one gen. That kind of change would make the incapacitation far less common/oppressive.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360328/taking-someone-hostage-in-game-allowed
Okay, so.
- That's not 'taking the game hostage'. It's just BM. Go grab a cup of coffee.
- Taking the game hostage is when survivors refuse to attempt the final gens and just hide around the map while avoiding crows, or when the killer physically bodyblocks someone into an area they can't escape. Basically - preventing the game from progressing or ending with the goal of forcing the other side to DC.
- BHVR have already said that slugging is going to get a baseline change - something along the lines of 'everyone has Unbreakable', but it's not something that can be done in a rush because it's going to dramatically effect the balance of the game - most of the time, slugging isn't done to be BM, it's done as a tactical decision. And the auto-mori change will completely prevent BM bleedouts too.
Just to add to this, two other methods of 'hostage' taking, confirmed by BHVR:
* Survivors body blocking another survivor for extended duration, just like the killer example.
* Killer holding a 3 gen while deliberately not downing or hooking survivors. The example used was a doctor player who just kicked gens, shocked survivors repeatedly (who even stood still for him to just hook them), and maybe injured without slugging, simply to prevent the gens from being completed.
Edit: For reference with the 3-gen scenario: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/521124/#Comment_521124
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311820#Comment_3311820
I do. Previously Eruption was an issue because there was nothing you can do except not do gens at all. Which is dumb, obviously. Unless you knew for a fact a gen was never touched that game, you pretty much blundered into it.
With the new HUD telling you someone is now in chase, you now have to make a judgement call. "Do I stay on it a bit longer, or do I get off of it?"
And there are people that are like "Well, that's not fair because you can't know for sure!".
Because they demand counterplay that literally works 100% of the time. And they don't seem to understand that in a 4v1 having the power to completely negate and shut down an action from the 1 by the 4 is horribly bad game design.
The problem with eruption is that the perk removes your character from normal gameplay for an extremely long time. Every other mechanic in the game that does this has some method built in to at least mitigate or avoid being forced to idle as a survivor. Not having that is, among other things, simply poor game design.
Being a PvP game, the most common ways a survivor is removed from normal play involve direct interaction with the killer player. Being hooked, slugged, or killed/sacrificed all have counterplay depending on how the survivor (and killer) plays. And being human, there's always a chance of error on either side of the equation.
There are only two ways to disable an opponent in DBD that both don't involve direct interaction with your opponent and have no warning or telegraph to avoid (consistent counterplay, as you put it). Those are Blast Mine and Eruption.
Blast Mine expires after 60 seconds, must be earned before it can be used at all, and can only apply to one gen at a time even once earned. Blast Mine is also one of few perks in the game generally considered to be 'fair' by both sides, partially because of these restrictions. Even then, Blast Mine is only a 4 second stun and would need to be a roughly 6.25 second stun to be comparable to eruption (which is ridiculous).
Eruption has no restrictions to when it can be used, can be applied to every gen on the map at once, and never expires until it is used. There could possibly be an argument for the cooldown if the Eruption cool down applied on gen kick instead of on activation, but as it is, the perk is effectively always available.
And that is the current problem with eruption. The perk needs restrictions to use or a warning or telegraph so it can be avoided completely.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360115/slugging-for-the-4k-needs-to-go
95% of the survivors have no problem spending 2 minutes at the exit gate game, after game, after game, day in and day out.
- Why is another 4 minutes such a big issue??
First, I don't teabag at the exit gates, but I do get bled out sometimes.
Second, your point here also goes the other way. If killers have no problems bleeding out survivors for 4 minutes, why should they complain about breaking pallets for 2 minutes at the end of the match?
Personally, I think both of these behaviors are garbage and unsportsmanlike. At least the killer has the option to hit the survivors out or otherwise earn BP during that time. A downed survivor has the option to do nothing except tab out of the game and earns nothing for it.
I'd love it if there was a mechanic to just give up on the ground in that situation since infinite unbreakable is a terrible idea. Give the killer a hook stage, kill, whatever, just don't waste my time on the ground.
Killers frustrated by this the most seem to hate the existing methods of ignoring them or forcing them out, but I've yet to hear any solution to 'survivors won't leave' that isn't either petty, overpowered, punishes the team for making sure everyone is actually safe, or some combination of these.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308824#Comment_3308824
Yeah, it's not like killers need those perks to counter the progression builds + "looping" builds with WoO everybody is using so SWF don't do all the gens in less than 4 minutes. And you can "nerf" one meta, but now there is another meta... what are you talking about?
And who is saying that Eruption or CoB is not meta? There is practically not other discussion topic in this forum that isn't "Gen rush vs Gen regress" meta and how Eruption + CoB should be nerfed! No, really, what are you talking about?
Also...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UM2CABNMZT1G/somuchdiverse.jpg
So diverse. Much wow...
So...
You circled power struggle and blast mine.
Having so much trouble with meme build that you're rage posting on the forums about it?
You seen to think this is some gotcha post, but you either have no idea what 'meta' perks are, or you let your 6 year old pick out the 'pretty icons' for you.
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We'll know for sure with the PTB tomorrow, but I'd guess these either don't stack, or won't by the time it goes live based on PTB feedback.
Even if it does stack, they've added hooks to Thompson house and deleted the upper RPD library entirely since that patch.
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@RainehDaze said:
I miss old BBQ. It actually gave a reason to not tunnel. And some other goal in a game aside from killing people as fast as possible.
I really don't get the attitude of "well you probably don't need to tunnel, so why are you doing it?" Like... what is with the constant refrain of "you should play in a way that makes it harder for yourself just to be nice"? Nobody's being nice to me on the other side. <_>
The started reason for removing the BP bonus for BBQ was to not have BP incentives tied to perks, but I don't think anyone at all would complain with making that BP bonus for hooking unique survivors base kit.
Imo, that would be one of the few changes they could make that would be largely uncontroversial but incentivise not tunneling.
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I love how no one is asking about your play style. With those perks all relying on pressure from hooks, if your chases are taking too long you lose a lot of pressure. How long does it take for you to secure your first down of the game? If the first chase takes too long, you're effectively playing perkless with that build.
Lethal is amazing, I run this in nearly every build anymore. Corrupt intervention usually means the survivors have to cross the map or at least move away from their closest gen before they can get started on anything. Corrupt is nice, but isn't strictly necessary if you can down a survivor quickly in your first chase.
The other two are dependent on what your long term goal is. I usually run at least one regression perk, unless I'm doing a meme build. If you feel you have no room to improve in the game, then eruption/brine is popular.
If you think you have room to improve at the killer or in chases, then you can use one perk slot for I'm All Ears. That plus lethal is basically free wall hacks that cuts chases a lot shorter, and it's amazing on that killer. It may not win you games immediately, but you'll get better at having faster downs, which is critical for map pressure.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308858#Comment_3308858
4 survivors need less than 3 minutes to make 5 generators, in the first 90 seconds -4, and then all 4 survivors make 1 generator and this is without perks and tubloks that significantly reduce time
I saw a video where people were able to escape through the gate in 2:50
so they can
So, this occurs if the killer is literally AFK and perkless?
At best, you saw this once in a custom game or a baby killer's first game ever who got lost exploring RPD. That's the only way all 4 survivors can spend nearly 3 minutes working on gens with zero pressure to do anything else.
Corrupt intervention alone blocks this imaginary scenario, and that's even with the killer being literally afk.
I had a game where the killer walked into a corner and went afk on coldwind at the start, never did a single thing, and they got 200 BP at the end. Even that game, our solo q group paused gens to try and figure out ######### the killer was doing.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309129#Comment_3309129
look at different streamers, etc. or play as a killer, if there are no bots against you, in the first minute you will receive -2/3 of the generator
This is entirely subjective and is 100% dependent on *who* you are choosing to watch stream the game. Most people are naturally going to default to watching players who match their play style, and only focus on game play that they themselves use in game.
On the extreme end, some people just watch one person religiously, use their commentary as a feedback loop to reinforce their own frustrations with the game, and angrily post on Reddit and the forums that the game is either killer- or survivor- sided, depending on their personal opinion.
In the games I play, I use corrupt and/or lethal to pressure survivors immediately. Because survivors will always prioritize gens unless I give them something else to do or worry about.
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I expect survivor icons because those have been teased. I also expect there will be a few map changes, most notably new random tiles for autohaven and/or macmillan.
There's about a 50/50 chance they do anything about eruption. If they do change anything it'll be 'the cooldown now applies on kick, not on down, but has been reduced to 15 seconds.'
I don't expect widespread perk changes until this summer when they'll probably do another huge swath of 30+ perks at once.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
A lot of people I know are not playing at present due to the current meta, particularly on the killer side.
Considering taking a break myself until they deal with Eruption in particular and I probably need a break anyway. I have been grinding a lot with the Bloodhunt and holiday login bonuses but since the extra BP are ending today it feels like a good time to take a break and come back once they sort out the Eruption/COB etc problem
I feel this. I need one more level to finish the deep rift today, and it's been a slog. I might just play some chill killer games to complete a few challenges and let everyone go to be done with it.
The burnout this rift has been pretty severe, and I need a break from the game. Really hoping the midchapter patch this month addresses critical things. *Cougheruptioncough*
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@Bardon said:
Why should Reassurance have zero risk? Doing it through the floor from above or below is nuts.
Since I haven't seen anyone address this yet, Reassurance already works between floors in almost all areas.
On Midwich, RPD, and The Game, you can Reassure a survivor above or below you already, because they are within the perk's range of you stand directly above or below them.
The only 'normal area' hooks that are too far would be things like first floor of iron works from the upper catwalk, or Thompson house balcony from the ground outside the house (it might work inside once you go up the stairs into the first floor). Again, these are outside the 6m range.
The basement, though, appears either coded or bugged to not work with reassurance. Not only does it not work from directly above the hook (at, say, shack), but you can't reassure through the wall if you're anywhere on the stairs either. You have to be at the bottom of the stairs in the basement proper to get the prompt. The middle of the stairs are easily within 6m of the hooks there.
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DBD would 100% benefit from having limited time game modes like this for a weekend every few months or so. Just an optional, opt in mode that is only around for a short time, and goes away before a hard 'meta' can emerge completely.
But the core game is far too unbalanced for these kinds of game modes to be around very long.
Just like 2v8. It'd be fun for a day, then people would just run Nurse/Nurse all the time and the mode would die.
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Imo both speed and slowdown in this game need a hard cap implemented.
This would apply to gen progress and regression, healing speeds, and debuffs. The fact that this isn't in the game yet is mind boggling. There's no reason a single gen should be able to vary between about 20 seconds (3 surv using toolboxes + 3xBNP) to over 180 seconds with Thana, Pentimento, Dying Light.
I understand that might be harder to convey to newer players, but the overall game would benefit.
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Toolboxes, BNP, and medkits should have at least double the charges, but only provide at most an 8-10% speed increase. That fixes most of the variance on the survivor side.
Someone also mentioned that BNP could be consumed to 'lock in' gen progress. So, as long as the gen is above 50%, using a BNP prevents the gen from regressing below 50%. That would be a decent use for the item imo.
Slowdown is mostly fine, and the exceptions to that have little too do with regression speeds tbh.
I'd say the only 'problematic' gen slowdowns are eruption and stacking speed debuff perks. Eruption has problems with the lack of counter play and insane incapacitation time, the regression and gen damage are fine.
The only other change would be to cap speed debuffs in general. While less 'meta' after the patch, stacking Thana, Pentimento, Dying Light, etc on legion or plague can still lead to 160+ seconds per generator, which is ridiculous.
Ideally, speed increases and decreases across the board should have caps, and avoid situations where survivors can self heal in a boon in like 5 seconds with the right perk and medkit.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305861#Comment_3305861
Some reactions are why I roll my eyes. Nothing but insults and rage screeching if Survivors THINK someone is Slugging.
More on topic: Killers would not slug for the 4K if Survivors could not hasten hook death (and changing that would ALSO remove hook-DCing). They have every right to try for a 4K, and most these ideas are 'I want to give my friend the hatch. Let me die quicker'
It seems allot of 'I need a give up button' comments also pair with 'Be happy with the 3K' (which shames Killers for 'sweating for the 4K') and, of course, impotent rage-screeching from some Survivors, who get insanely offended if Killers break any made-up rules of conduct.
You've added basically nothing to the conversation here tho. You don't even seem to recognize that a player having to lay on the floor and bleed out for four minutes, with literally no way to end that scenario in their own, is even a problem.
Do you see this as bad, or even flawed, game design? Having a player forced to idle for four minutes with no agency to change that situation is the definition of unengaging.
Is that not the exact kind of situation that game developers should be looking to avoid and/or change? It seems like having a conversation about it, in front of the devs on their own forum, is not a bad thing here. And having ideas that aren't 'infinite unbreakable' are worth discussing constructively, since I generally think BHVR's PTB experiment was a poor solution that has awful consequences for the rest of the game.
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Adding in any option to avoid large groups of players in matchmaking won't happen. No killer would ever go up against a premade SWF and sweat if they had the option to check a box to be able to steamroll solos every game. Just like survivors choosing 'not to play against nurse' won't happen either.
Since you seem like a newer player, you can learn some tricks from watching people who stream or make videos on the game. You already appear to be playing survivor some too, which can be a good way to observe how killers deal with certain things.
For example, a downed survivor near a vault window can still be picked up. You don't have to be facing the vault to pick them up, just be standing over them. Most killers will face a wall to avoid flashlights, but you can put your back to the window and pick up the survivor instead.
I'd also recommend just picking one area of the game you want to improve at, and not be as concerned about 'winning'. I practice chasing in my killer games, because I feel like I'm not good at that part. Sometimes I'll chase the 'good survivor' for a while, even knowing it'll cost me the game, because I'll learn something for future games.
They also just added survivor bots to custom games recently. So, as killer, you can play against the ai to learn maps, killer powers, perks, etc. So that might be something to try out as well. There aren't killer bots yet though, so practicing survivor is only against real players in matches.
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@entertainment720 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305118#Comment_3305118
I agree - a video can be uploaded to Youtube (for example as unlisted) and then put the link in the support ticket.
Can I get some clarification on this, please?
I've only ever heard that 'slugging isn't against the rules', which is true. Not all slugging falls into a 'BM' or greifing category, obviously, so there's nuance to this that can be hard to capture.
But in the past, I've had killers who, when everyone is dead already, stand over my body as I bleed out throwing hatchets at me. Even crawling past several functional hooks, not getting picked up and more hatchets and swinging. Until I eventually bleed out on the ground.
So in this kind of extreme griefing instance, I should be submitting reports for this? I admit it's rare for this level, but I'd always been under the impression that this exact scenario is 'not reportable, don't bother.'
Or maybe I misunderstood and you're only offering an alternative for video upload without trying to imply that the report is valid or actionable.
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@lagosta said:
Not all items are unhealthy to the game and locking them behind secondary objectives isn't a suitable fix. Nerf Medkits and everything will be fine.
I agree, tho I'd also add toolboxes to the list of problematic items.
Both med kits and toolboxes can be fixed by doubling the number of charges, and capping the speed increase to at most 8-10%.
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I've never had a game where this was an issue, personally. So when I read these posts I have to assume the situation where survivors are hiding for 'indefinite or extended amounts of time' is incredibly rare.
A short, 5 minutes timer with these conditions won't resolve the problem of 'extreme hiding'. For one thing, the most common, legitimate gameplay strategy form of hiding is when the killer is slugging for the 4k. There's zero reason, strategically, to reveal yourself as the last survivor standing in that scenario. It takes 4 minutes for the other survivor to bleed out, so the last survivor would be revealed looking for the hatch quite often.
Or, in a 3-gen scenario (for any reason), you could just have permanently revealed survivors because the 3-gen could take a long time to actually complete one, or never. Even if the survivors are actively trying to break the 3-gen to win, running to avoid damage and not entering chase would trigger your conditions.
But most importantly, survivors who actually do this will just bring a boon and switch between a handful of totems to keep the timer down. The same reason idle crows don't solve this problem: people will just play around them.
What you are looking for instead is a monitor on the match as a whole, not individuals. So the server detects chases, *any* gen progress at all, health states gained or lost, etc. Basically BP gaining events.
If none of that is detected, then a switch spawns at the back wall of the basement that anyone in the game can trigger to start a stalemate collapse. This is just the end game collapse timer, but without opening or powering the exit gates. Progressing the game pauses the timer, but any time is permanently lost, even if the gates are powered later.
And while we're targeting hostage scenarios, any player idle long enough to get any number of idle crows loses collision with other players. Crows also disable that player's items, perks, add-ons, and killer power until they are active enough to have lost all crows gained. Idle killers can now also get crows, but this does not give 'explosion' notifications to survivors.
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OTR is one of maybe three anti tunneling perks, arguably the one that's most effective, and you want killers to be able to deactivate it completely..... by hitting them off hook?
In that scenario, if the survivor is left alone, the perk would do nothing because they weren't tunneled. And if they are tunneled, the perk deactivates completely so they can be more easily tunneled.
So... you want it to be an empty perk slot.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302875#Comment_3302875
I tested with E and it worked. Only the mouse wheel doesn't, and only for Repressed Alliance. I had no idea this was possible. How can a single perk not be activated by a particular key bind? The problem is that I already got used to use the wheel for everything (Dead Hard for example). Not gonna change back to E.
Do you think its possible to report this bug? (When I say "possible" I mean would they care)
Definitely leave a bug report on the forums here for it. These kinds of things can happen in software that undergoes lots of changes over time.
Fortunately, something like this is easier to fix because we can reproduce it and it doesn't involve weird situational interactions. Somebody might even know what to tweak just by looking at the bug report. Hopefully it's a quick fix either way.
Glad you have a work around in the meantime though.
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This is exactly what the exit gate switches are.
Because in a world where the doors simply opened when the 5 gens were complete, there isn't anything the killer can really do. The doors being closed and locked still is an extra opportunity/last hope for the killer to pull in a hook or kill.
For survivors, the hatch may be the only feasible objective at a certain point. Especially during the 'slug for the 4k', the only real objective for the last survivor standing is probably to hide for hatch.
Same thing for the exit gate switches. The killer even gets auras to know where to find/pressure survivors to get those end game kills. And there are a host of end game perks to help secure kills at the gates.
I'd also like to point out that the hatch is RNG, but generally favors the killer because of faster base speed and other mobility. The exit gates are also (usually) RNG, but favor the survivor only if they are far apart. Close exit gates, and fixed maps like Midwich still favor the killer anyway.
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@Katzengott said:
I like the idea. But on the other hand i don't want to give the killer free DMS / Deadlock.
I see what you mean, but it's not the same thing. You're only going to use RA if the killer is already coming to pressure you off the gen. The later you activate it, the more they've already committed to being there, and not being able to kick it wastes even more of their time. They basically have to commit to chase at that point. And you can just run as far away as possible, or I suppose, they stand there looking at the blocked gen for 30 seconds do nothing until it expires.
The other thing is, RA or not, you're still having to get off that gen. They're going to probably pause or drop chase to kick it, cause that's the game now, and your gen regresses while you run. If eruption alone incaps a survivor, it wastes something like 40 seconds worth of gen progress. I'd much, much rather have only 30 seconds in a situation where I already can't touch the gen, and deny the killer's perks entirely.
Edit: autocorrect.
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I've been running repressed alliance for a few days with pretty good success against some eruption builds. The awkward part is that it takes 45 seconds to earn it once, so I try to save it for gens that I'm making decent progress on. The worst is hearing the terror radius approaching but you won't earn it in time to use it.
RA isn't perfect, but I'm probably going to keep running it for the time being.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302815#Comment_3302815
I tested on its own, and it doesnt work still. I had to record a video with wire tap and blast mine just as a proof that I pressed the button
Weird. I noticed your key bind looked like you set it to a mouse button in the video. I have mine set to default (e), so I wonder if that's related.
You might try setting it back to the default to see if that's part of the issue. It's good feedback to the devs for bug reporting if that fixes it.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302739#Comment_3302739
Seriously. The conversation shifted from 'folks stacking BNPs, Prove Thyself, Hyperfocus and Stakeout force me to tunnel' to 'a survivor doing a gen forces me to tunnel'.
Any time I see the phrase 'TuNnEl GeNs' I'm instantly certain that player has no idea what 'gen pressure' is. Also probably can't fathom why ruin/undying used to be meta because those perks 'do nothing.'