"Nah man, Flashlight saves, Background player, infinite Flashbangs are balanced bro"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nGG_hibdZc
This is why I run Lightborn 90% of my matches even when there is no flashlight.
Comments
Chaos like BGP is something the game sorely lacks nowadays.
I believe the more technical term would be swing perks.
Oh! Actually, furthering that thought. Maybe make BGP no longer and Exhaustion perk, stop it from stacking Haste and make it usable only until you get a save. Now you get one real use, but the perk isn't dead.
Best weekend thread >_>;
Not sure what swing perks means, sorry. I guess chaos wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that chaos in this game usually means being fun at the expense of being uncounterable but right now I don't think more perks like this is ever going to be a good idea.
That idea isn't too bad actually. It would still be good but not overbearing anymore if it's not unlimited. Make flashbangs not work when facing a wall and this would be pretty fair.
Only problem though is that it could be infinite easy sabos if you don't ever go for the save, but I'm sure they could find something for that.
At the detriment of everything else. Prepare for an eventuality that is impossible to counter without perks and you get crushed in every other scenario (for the most part).
Another use said this but both infectious and mind breaker do not matter to people with the BGP playstyle. Double that for infectious if they decide to run calm spirit just to also counter ultimate weapon (horrible perk but still, if they're determined …)
Here's a very simple set of counters to PR + Pop + Grim:
Notice how my very first option depended entirely on the player's ability and skill? Yeah, you won't find that with the current BGP issue.
To say that combo has no counter is as absurd as saying there's no counter to a killer chasing you off a gen. The killer, through hooking, earned a bonus to extend the game. The counter is to either be faster than the killer's ability to down or outlast the killer in chase.
Versus - I have a survivor that purposefully died under a pallet or in the open and their friend is poised to save them with their 200% movement speed. Unlike the above, you CANNOT do anything about this unless you equip a specific build or are an obscenely strong killer.
There'd be more perk variety if most weren't total garbage made only for youtube content or to lose.
Well, Sabo's on a pretty big cooldown and toolboxes are finite and better used on gens, honestly more of an issue with hook spawns.
Swing perks are perks like DS, NOED, etc etc that have the potential to swing the game.
Yes very much my fault a survivor intentionally goes down in the open or on a pallet and I’m playing a 0 mobility killer let me just scare them by looking at them. I’m not going to pretend the majority of bgp users get a save against me but you’re going to remember the players that use it very well.
Well yeah but that's just negativity bias. You'll remember bad things well.
Just use lightborn if it bothers you so much?
"Oh but I shouldn't be forced to use a perk just to be able to get hooks and do my objective. Besides, sometimes I don't even get any value from it, waste of perk slot"...
Funny, then survivors shouldn't also be forced to use perks to be able to do objectives/get more points/enjoy the game. Perks like deliverance, decisive strike, unbreakable and god knows how many more that you get no value sometimes just because survivor is afraid of killer camping or slugging.
And yet, it's what people always say: Oh, you are being tunneled? Use decisive strike. Oh, getting slugged? Just use unbreakable, easy.
At the end of the day, you just have to use the perk meant for that situation. Didn't get any value? Too bad, maybe next time you will.
Background Player is a bully squad wet dream, it's not a chaotic perk like what Nicholas Cage brings to the table. The main demographic it appeals to are people trying to ######### with you. If we want chaotic and silly gameplay back, there should be no invisible walls and they should stop patching out techs.
I thought Resilience + Spine Chill was based back in the day when they could be combo'd
15% bonus vault speed is like 3 frames and everyone lost their minds
Some techs need to go, like Hug and Locker.
Patching in invis walls is dumb.
Ultimate Weapon literally is getting gutted even though survivors could run Calm Spirit to negate it.
If a counter perk existing isn't enough to stop killer perks from getting nerfed, then survivor stuff is free game for the same reason.
And you could have prevented that free value by running a perk. The same thing killers are being told to do when asking to reduce the strength of Background player, because it's making flashlight/pallet saves too easy.
Which is the same thing Survivors are being told to do to counter tunneling.
Which is the same thing Killers are told to do to counter gen rushing.
Which is, which is, which is.
Playing this us vs them who struck first game is just silly.
Doesn't this sound….familair? One side saying it isn't right that they have to bring a perk to counter something that feels unfair and uncounterable without a perk, the other side telling them that if it bothers them so much to just equip the perk and "git gud". Idk it just feels….hypocritical.
I generally like Otz, but think he was way off on this take.
Survivors, and killers, should both have multiple strategies that they can pursue. All the time spent rescuing each other could have been spent hitting gens.
Also if new killers are frequently hitting coordinated SWFs who are perfectly hitting flashbang saves, that's a problem in and of itself. But at least they have far more agency there then the SWFs who genrush. More likely they are hitting SWFs who will frequently mess up the saves.
It's also weird the focus in the video and the channel on the playing casual. Great, go ahead and play casual, I usually do as killer. But the expectation that you should be able to get the same result is silly.
You mean the counterplay?
I find this hilarious. The real bully squad isnt around anymore or at least incredibly rare. I think most people dont know how these groups actually look like and looked like. The group in Otz video definitely isnt abully squad. Just people that want to have a fun time.
I hope that people finally realize that flashlights are actually more healthy for the game due to their nature of encouraging interaction between killer and survivor in a meta and mmr system, that encourages to have as little interaction as possible.
I take your four -flashlight-squad over :
every day. At least they want to enjoy the game as much as I do.
Yes both sides use this same hypocritical excuse. Rather than argue over which side started it and continue this cycle forever, wouldn’t it be better to fix the issues on both sides?
Both sides hate having to run something to counter something otherwise near uncounterable but rather than admit it is an issue the other side would rather neither side get fixed and just use them as excuses.
Thinking likes on this forum equals facts 😂😂😂😂
Solution to background player, FIRE UP. it makes you pick up 4% to 16% faster.
Unfortunately, that is the way it usually goes with these content creators. They think something is OP and "problematic", but refuse to use any of the counters against them. They want to run their mindless 3 or 4 regression and maybe 1 aura reading.
A similar complaint I see is about Windows of Opportunity. When I am playing killer, if I think Windows is losing me games, I will equip a blindness perk/addon. Every killer I play has access to a blindness perk, or addon. I don't go onto YouTube or the forums and complain so the perk gets nerfed. I just use my thousands of hours of experience to equip a perk that directly counters the problem I am having…
The funniest part of this is there is not even a hard counter to this. You run lightborn. They just start going down on pallets to snipe you. You leave the person on the floor they could have unbreakable and power struggle. There's legit survivor plays with no counterplay from the killer side even with perks. Same case for something like buckle the people. If they can instant heal while your whiping your blade what can you do? Run stbfl? So let's see. I need a build of. Stbfl. Infectious. Fire up. Lightborn. To get rid of half of these no counterplay in normal gameplay scenarios. Here's the problem. Thats not having fun. I'm not having fun running the same 4 perks just for the chance to deal with these no counterplay scenarios. And even then they don't even solve the problems. Sure you can't be blinded. But you can still be pallet saved even with fire up. Stbfl might make you clean faster but depending on your stacks if it's first down they'll still get it off. And your running all this in hope that you can at least make these scenarios more manageable. Killers perks matter a lot to the overall gameplay. If they have to run all this stuff while survivors complained about having to run calm spirit to deal with ultimate weapon. I see a painful irony.
did you just say steptic touch . That perk is a joke
First of all, you are mentioning that there is not counter-play, and then directly giving examples of counter-play. You are also talking about "What Ifs" a lot here. What if a survivor brings this perk, and what if a survivor brings that perk. When you start talking about what if, then anything and everything is possible.
Where are all these competitive SWFs with every "OP" perk that other people are playing every game? I have 3k+ hours, and it is swinging 60/40 towards killer lately. I'm not having these problems you speak of. Sure, every now and again I run into BU+FTP, or BGP+FB, but it is rare. Also, if people are going down on pallets, you can bait the save, or you can vacuum them out of it, or you can body block the side they are going to come from, or you can pick up straight away before they get in position. There is four counters to pick from alone.
Honestly though, altruism perks are great, they give me interaction with survivors, and usually work against them. It also provides more of a challenge because I know I am going up against a SWF instead of just stomping 4 solo players. I have always said that there is nothing more boring than going up against four people who hide all game, slam gens, and escape. I'd rather have people swarming the hook, or going for pallet/flashlight saves.
For reference, my main build is Ultimate Weapon, Game Afoot, Nemesis, Rancor on Bubba. I also play Wesker with Rapid, Corrupt, Pain Res, Bamboozle. Both of these styles I focus on chasing, but I might swap out Rapid and Corrupt for Pop + NTH if I feel MMR is getting to me. I find these builds to be great fun, and I really don't struggle getting 2 or more kills, in fact nearly all games are 3k+.
I just don't understand why people aren't willing to solve their own problems instead of complaining to Behaviour to make the game easier for them. Did I think UW was too powerful? Yeah. Did I play Calm Spirit to counter it? You bet I did. Did I cry about it because it took a slot? No, because it directly counters a killer's slot. The same goes for Distortion, I ran that as a baby survivor before it regenned tokens and I loved it. I don't run it now because I play in a SWF and the less experienced looper runs it. I still think it is a great perk as it counters killer's perks and allows you to choose when you take chase.
Overall, I guess I am just playing to have fun with chases. I've played where my only goal was to win, and I left each game stressed, miserable, or angry. That's not what I want when I am playing a video game, but each to their own. 🤠👍️
Yeah and flashbang counter play is to prevent wall looking up?
Apparently it is
You make no sense.
The counter to a flashlight is to look at a wall or to chase a survivor away.
BGP negates the second option because the survivor will still reach the spot in time despite being chased away.
The counter to a flashbang is not looking at a wall due to them having a bigger radius and being able to be disposed (excuse my language) in the killers butt. The option of chasing the survivor away is also not possible if the survivor runs BGP, as mentioned before.
Your earlier post implied that the counter a killer has to flashlights is annoying and that they should just give the survivor a free safe. That's seems like entitlement to me. A killer should have an option to avoid a safe after a potentially long chase.
To make it clear yes the counter to flashlight is to look up at wall. The counter to killers looking up at a wall is using flashbang. Ever hear a counter for a counter?
You run the perk that negates two perk and you look around before you pick people up if pallet save is a problem end of story.
I play a ton of survivor recently. Just for you to know.
It happens. I've been called it to even though I just got this recently.
50-50s don't exist I guess. You either have a killer or survivor opinion. Ironically I play more survivor than killer recently besides for dailys.
It shouldn't matter what side you play more. What matters is, if your argument makes sense.
Edit: congratulations for the p100 fengu.
Always. And thankies.
You actually missed his point. could bring Lightborn, Infectious Fright and Fire Up at the same time and you STILL wouldn't be countering Background Player because it still enables 5-mile-away pallet saves and sabotages. The perk is a catch-all for preventing hooks. Every thing you bring to counter blinds will only counter one half of the perk, and the 200% speed bonus means you're actually incapable of fending off a pallet save because they can zoom in from 32 meters away for it. You don't even need to run a breakout build, this one perk can be shoved into any build to create unhookable scenarios.
This entire drama could have been avoided if social media didn't get hysterical over OG background Player just like they did with Lucky Break.
Careful what you wish for.
that's literally every single game on the market tough. For destiny it is titans vs warlocks vs hunters. For overwatch its healers vs tabks vs dps . Every game will get turned into a me vs you argument one way or another. People like to discuss and argue over things they disagree on .
I mean I wish I had players in my lobby that could actually use Background Player and flashlights lol.
That playstyle is only present and/or successful in High MMR matches and at that point, I don't see the problem with running Lightborn.
If ever there was a case of the pot calling the kettle black…
They literally admitted not many people use it effectively, they just didn't like it when it happened.
Like yeah, no duh. I don't like it when someone pulls off a sabo play on me, but that doesn't mean I think it's overpowered.
Why is it even possible to walk through the killer during pick up animation? I think this shouldn't be possible at all.
Backgroundplayer is problematic to me because it allows you to stay far away and get the pallet save and still have enough haste left to get somewhere safe. It does require more then the ftp buckl up bs (I still wonder why that is still in the game) but essentially it has the same problem. It prevents a hook that was earned with no risk to the one rescueing.
"you look around before you pick people up if pallet save is a problem end of story."
So, every time i down a survivor at the pallet, i need to go check 25m+ area around that survivor, am i right?
Your absolutely correct so do not get mad if a pallet save happens since you just want go grab and go. Smart killers do that in 90% of my games anyway lol.
you know how much of an area to check it is?… you can't be serious
I just pick lightborn on most of my matches and watch them cry in the post game screen
Its always funny to see a wannabe bully squad still trying to flash you after they obviously noticed you have lightborn.
my only gripe is when you pick up a survivor completely facing a wall and still somehow getting blinded when nothing but the wall is in your LoS. Other than that blinds are fine
People wanna act like this is non stop 4 man squads with infinite flashbangs refusing them a single hook, I've played killer only the last two days and have only seen it a handful of times, most of the time once I know they have it , it's no longer effective at that point, are people forgetting you have to do gens to get it in the first place?
Yeah, but it's a waste of a perk slot. Something as basic and necessary shouldn't require a whole perk. Survivors got basekit BT, yet killers still can only dream about basekit Lightborn. So the previously mentioned solutions about slugging builds is much better in my opinion, not only you deny survivors 318 of their god-mode and bully perks which activate only after pick-up or unhook, but also make them extremely salty.
I just want to mention this, but if a Survivor is trying to get a save with Background Player, chances are they probably dont have Exhaustion considering the fact that they are passively following the chase.
And to an extent, some of the perks mentioned are kind of useless for the first chase; e.g. Genetic Limits and Septic Touch are too gimmicky and rely on you dropping chase a lot in the early game, Mindbreaker will get no value since they arent on a Generator anyways (MB is better for countering Sprint Burst), Blood Echo requires a hook and you havent hooked anyone yet.
IMO, I do think Background Player is a bit overtuned. Flashlights and Flashbangs are perfectly fine though and should remain unchanged, since if you remove them, you could just go for Sabo and Pallet Saves and Background Player still would remain the issue here.
They nerf flash lights out of lockers but allow flash bangs.. that should say enough to how ignorant the system is. I love the run a perk to counter a perk as well! It's so funny you expect my 4 perks to counter all 12 of yours, still have gen defense to counter your gen rush builds and be viable in a chase since windows now allows bum players to loop great. Makes sense.