no way out should be disabled during end game collapse
the only way this happens is with one person left and hatch is closed your just screwed the killer gets notified and you cant do anything for a minute if stuff like ds and OTR are disabled so should NWO
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They finally reverted NOLB to work when the gates are powered, not only opened. Think it was back in 6.1.
Disable it in endgame collapse let them have it so the one guy at least has a chance
The problem is you're wanting a perk that is SOLELY for tunnelling... But yet, you are losing these perks at end game. If i am not wrong, you still can camp & tunnel at end game. So why surivors are losing their perks?
The proposed reworks happen for NWO and, sure, even Remember Me.
Killers that reallllly want the 4k will just stand on Hatch instead of closing it.
Any solutions?
There aren’t any generators left to patrol, gates can be done quickly and far from a hooked survivor. The killer is basically out of reasonable options in end game, but to secure that last down/hook.
And for last survivor, hatch is closed. And gates blocked by NWO for a minute, now they can not do anything. This is lose - lose scenerio for survivor as well.
I can't see any difference. And i am not even talking about DS nerfed into ground with 3 seconds stun time
Really... Maybe I missed it... LOL
I mean, its easy to lose if gates are on opposite sides of the map with stuff in between. They can pretty easily get out before you do a patrol sometimes. Which is extremely bad map rng i guess
You shouldn't be losing games when the Gates are blocked for 60 seconds AND you get a noise notification of what door was touched.
Oh no i mean when it doesnt work in egc you can easily lose.
Ah, my mistake then.
Here's the suggestion i posted earlier for when the EGC triggers via hatch closing
"Stacks do not apply a bonus to the time the Exit Gate is blocked and No Way Out no longer notifies the Killer when it is triggered."
You still get value but it's not impossible for the Survivor to escape.
I don't have much of an issue with it but it does make the nerfs to remember me and pig's endgame when they brought out EGC seem a bit incoherent.
Technically speaking it's to "just do the generators", as the Killer can only pressure one area at a time. They stand on hatch? Then do the remaining gens. They leave to check on gens? Now they are no longer guarding hatch and you can escape that way. They shut hatch? Now we're in the gate phase of endgame.
That said, this is not a very elegant solution, as it takes a very long time, is very boring for everyone involved and generally the chances of the Killer winning this in the end are much greater than the Survivor standing a chance (they just gotta spot them once, shut hatch and that's a GG).
In other words, we gotta, once again, change the way Hatch works. Honestly, why not make it work like the Cage of Atonment? Make it so if the Killer is within X meters to the Hatch for Y seconds without interacting with it, then Hatch will despawn and respawn in a different Hatch spawn location. I don't think this would harm anyone who plays normally, while also preventing exactly that problematic scenario of Hatch camping to ensue.
it’s okay for survivors to lose, the game doesn’t need a million contingencies to ensure they always have a way to escape and teabag the killer on their way out
NWO in a 1v1 is very hard to play around but it can be beaten, you just need to not waste too much time before touching a gate.
But if anything, the perk you should be complaining about is Remember Me, which, although generally worse than NWO most of the time, has actually zero counterplay in a 1v1 unless you have a key or are the obsession.
Some people just say things without thinking. Do you understand that your logic can be applied to killers as well?
The difference is that the survivor already lost twice: They lost when their team all died before completing gens, and they lost again when the killer beat them to the hatch. If anything how NWO works in this situation is exactly how it should, a gate escape is counted as a win, and someone who has lost twice has clearly not won.
How? I brought the perk. This OP is saying it shouldn't matter, it should just turn the perk off because he wants to escape. That's the logic here.
Literally in the name of the perk... "No way out"
Killer lost when survivors finished gens, killer lost when survivors saved their teammate from end game camping. Survivors should keep their anti-tunnel perks, there is no reason to reward killer for their lose.
You wellcome!
Thats a bit of a false equivalence, but you're welcome to think it.
It is not false for me, it is pretty correct for me. But you are welcome to disagree.
Let the killers have this niche scenario. I've almost never seen it.
Yeah!
But then you're just adding insult to injury to the killer instead. They beat the survivors, closed the free escape hatch, now what? You want to give the survivors more chances to escape?
The difference with No Way Out is you A: have to play without a perk for the entire game, and B: have to split pressure across the entire team for full value, which incentivizes a strategy that is more often than not suboptimal. Essentially you're handicapping yourself the entire game to help secure the endgame better, and by that point I think there's nothing wrong with it giving the free late-game win after a hatch close.
I would argue if he dominated the game with only 3 perks, matchmaking handed him the win because he got paired below his skill level.
If he deserved that after a win was handed to him might differ from your pov.
With this line of thought, Decisive Strike should not be disabled in end game.
It's more about not giving the lone single Survivor (not Survivors) zero chance at escape.
You've already won the game, if you need No Way Out vs one Survivor I don't really know what to tell you.
No, because DS can work at any point throughout the match. Perks like it directly condition the way killer has to play if they don't want to get hit by it, so its mere existence is a net benefit to a survivor whether they have it or not. The fact a killer has to assume you have it makes them likely to play suboptimally (as in not tunneling) giving you a better chance to win. On the flip side, No Way Out puts you in a direct disadvantage state all game with zero potential for upside until the endgame, which inherently makes you more likely to lose.
Bear in mind I disagree with parts of the DS nerf, like it being a 3s stun as opposed to 5s, but DS is not an apt comparison to No Way Out because they hardly do the same thing.
You're wrong its more like "Why do you think you're owed a second chance to escape after losing the match?" Because they already had a chance with hatch
Nah, NWO sucks as the last survivor but by that point you already lost anyway. Plus I think we need more perks like NWO that encourages spreading out hooks. There's only perk I could think of that I would like to see deactivated for the last survivor but I'm not going to say which.
Hmmm, going to disagree Chief. One survivor not doing gens is much harder to find, much less down, then a survivor that is trying to push gens so their team escapes. NWO provides a reward for hooking everyone that evens the odds.
Lets just disable all perks always.
tunneling happens throughout entire match. Why do you think tunneling suddenly stops during the EGC? Survivor used DS for end game because it was best end-game perk for securing your escape. With its only use gone, its play-rate plummets. Even OTR is not in top 10 perks for survivor according to their stats. Borrow time is the perk that helps survivors get to next loop to prevent off-hook tunneling downs and now its base-kit so the other use of the perk resetting the chase in off-hook situations further vanishes.
Whether or not you think tunneling or camping in EGC, the point of the match where the killer is supposed to be put on the back-foot and make a comeback happen, is "wrong" or whatever isn't the point of this thread. OTR and DS not working in end game are bad faith arguments. It is not an equivalent comparison to No Way Out.
The hatch isn't a win, it's at best, a pity escape so you don't cry that you had "no chance" when the rest of your team dies at 5 gens. I don't see the point in feeling you are owed an escape when you failed your objective. And I don't understand why people treat a hatch escape or escape without all 5 gens finished, a "win." It isn't even one, going by what we know of stats.
I don't see why we need to nerf perks so you have an easier way of an escape-loss
Thats not how false equivalencies work, and I was trying to be polite.
Thanks but i was doing same thing for you. But my opinion did not change, i doubt you can change it. So let's just stop here, thanks for discussion.
second chance perks for survivor are anti-comeback perks for killer. The end game perks are comeback perks for killer. they counter-act each other. they're almost same thing with a coin flip.
Points.
I want the points.
Survivors brought DS and OTR, why should their perk turn off in endgame? ESPECIALLY when they haven’t used it all game.
killer loses when survivors pass through the Gate, actually. Because the killer loses the ability to kill at that point. Unless there should be a cinematic mori that starts when all 5 generators complete where the Survivors call up the Sweater Girl and Tommy Jarvis from F13 to wack the killer like a party Pinata
You know what? Fair enough.
No, second chance perks are second chance perks. Anti-comeback would imply you are winning and the killer is losing and the perks further increase that gap. Otr and ds arent anti comeback perks as the killer already succeeded in hooking you, if they continue to go for you after being unhooked then they are “punished” by those perks.
If they got 0 use of OTR or DS then the killer was either incredibly bad or they literally were playing max immersion and jumping in a locker the second they heard a half a second of the TR. If its the second one, or most likely a mixture of the two, then they surely would be able to escape even if NWO was in play.
Agreed on this considering there no point of it anymore.
That's not really what "insult to injury" means. It means taking a crappy situation (everyone else is dead and your team has lost) and making it worse (you can't even touch an Exit Gate lever without alerting the Killer). Making this change is more just not making an already winning situation for the Killer easier.
Disagree.
It’s very easy to find hatch before the killer, use clairvoyance.
NWO activates once the gates are powered closing the hatch or repairing the gens, the same way Adrenaline works.