The Decisive Strike nerf needs to be Rethought
There are some unnecessary things that deactivate Decisive Strike. Like healing yourself or others. If you don't want to get tunneled you have to wait 60 seconds to heal yourself. You have to be useless for 60 seconds and that's just rediculous
I understand what the devs were going for and I like the idea, but I don't like the way they executed it. It needs to be better, but preventing survivors from abusing it
idea. off-topic to the post
Here is my idea:
When you do these actions the timer goes down by...
- Cleanse a totem (5 seconds for a dull totem, 15 seconds for a hex totem)
- Repair a generator (10 seconds) (Goes down by 5 EXTRA seconds for every 5 seconds on the gen)
- Unhook a teammate (15 seconds)
(Healing yourself doesn't affect the timer but healing others reduces it by 5 seconds)
Comments
This is why the devs should stop listening to all and only killer mains. Killer mains have a strict definition that only facecamping and downing at the hook and picking back up is tunneling. But that is far from the truth. Right now, it is neither an anti-tunnel perk or a decisive strike.
Not a killer main, I'm a 50/50 player lol
Here is some of my survivor gameplay as proof, something you fail to provide in most to all of your threads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMSyE7gxc8g&ab_channel=YordsNot an anti-tunnel hmm? Well then explain to me how a perk that discourages the killer from going after the same survivor is not an anti-tunneling perk.
Checkmate, sluzzy.
What if the devs combined DS and BT into one perk? That way survivors don't have to use up two perk slots in order to counter camping and tunneling.
We're going to have a disagree then, because someone who is injured is most definitely still in play, so you would not be returning them to play, thereby not advancing the game. And, again, healing someone is still wasting the time of two people.
@Sup3rCatTree
You don't have to wait to do anything, if your not being chased then your not being tunneled. The perk has not changed, it's just missing abusable actions
So you are giving its abusive powers back, no thanks
I agree tbh.
so by your own statement you are healing someone that is in play therefore you are forwarding the game state. so if the ones that are down are "in play" then anything that betters their condition forwards the game state. your original supposition was that it does not and to not forward the game state as you put it they must *NOT BE IN PLAY* so well I'm sorry you killed your own argument there. oh guess what.... i'm being generous by saying the perk is in it's state now is ok. there are still several things i'd do to it and I do play survivor too.
Because facecamping is not the only way to tunnel. A killer can return to the hook after you try to heal or do anything useful and proceed to tunnel.
Sure sounds good to me
Nah it's a docuhe move. You're screwing up someone else's game be abuse you suck basically.
I am a 50/50 killer/survivor player and think the changes to DS were needed and completely acceptable.
If you are progressing the game then you are not being tunneled - and yes healing is progressing the game.
DS is meant to stop a killer from chasing you off the hook - and it works. If you can run off and heal, do totems, repair gens, etc - you are not being tunneled...period.
I just wish survivors didn't stop running it. I have never gotten so much use out of ds as i have after the nerf, running it and usually being the only one with it, has made the killer visibly ignore me after being unhooked and they go after someone else.
It still works, people are just silly and need to move to another location for heals or gen progress.
The new DS is perfectly fine, it saved my ass many times from getting tunneled, it’s supposed to be a anti tunnel perk, not a immunity perk like it was before.
I think what ds needs is for scratch marks and bloodpools to be hidden after using DS. The survivor would have a better chance of escaping the killer, thus making it a true anti tunnel perk.
you doing a gen and cleansing a totem... you are not being tunnled
That's not tunneling its just playing smart, why would a killer not go back to the hook where 2/4 survivors are?
No.
If you are doing those actions, you aren't being tunneled.
Excuse me what? "It's to help survivors for their mistakes"? So now it's the survivor's fault when they get tunneled?
It’s general assumption there Gonna comeback to catch a self care gen repair or survivors healing under it
I got a simple soluation. Dont do a gen right next to the hook...
The changes that were made to DS have worked exactly as the devs intended. DS will only be of use when you are actively being tunneled. As countless others have stated, if you have time to heal, work on a gen, cleanse a totem, open a chest etc, then you are not being tunneled.
Please see your previous comment below:
DS should be basekit & works on both hook.
But to compensate where Killer have to do at least 6 hooks for the first kill. More objectives should be added.
Gen to survivor = survivor to Killer. Survivor rush Gen, Killer rush a survivor. Except rushing kill a survivor giving bad experience for the tunneled.
I didn't abuse it to torture killers, I used it as it was intended to be used - got fed up of killers who tunnelled and it was about the only thing as a not particularly skilled looper that gave me the tiniest slim second chance. If a killer considers that 'torture' then perhaps they should play something else?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Sorry lad, but you had me in tears at "killers don't tunnel often". Any other killer that I've met, aside from myself, will tunnel always, everyone, forever. Of course, I guess it depends on what you call tunneling. For some people tunneling is just chasing a freshly unhooked survivor, and that's it. To me? Chasing the same guy, forever, until you eventually down him ONLY because of bloodlust or missing pallets. That's tunneoing. And every single cheap killer that I've found does that. Gens are flying? Nah, they're still chasing you.
I am ok with the nerf, anyway, but it was overdone. They should have made it so it decativates after at least 5 seconds of interaction, not instantly.
I think you should be able to heal yourself and DS stays active but that's it. Totems and gens should deactivate it.
I'd like it if it just increased the speed at which it drains when doing an action, right now a killer can pop a gen right next to a hook, and if you tap it (which the devs themselves have called 'smart/risky' gameplay in respone to a question I asked about it on a QA years back) you can be put right back on the hook. It's silly.
They basically did to DS what they did to MoM. Did these perks need a nerf? YES
But making them nigh useless is not a good plan, we want more perk variety not less.
I think the only case where it should instantly cancel is healing a health state.
Repairing a gen, no matter how short you press "repair", is still repairing and thus a deactivation condition dor DS.
Tapping as concept is bullshit and doesnt exist as seperate action.
Even your own example for a DS "fix" is bypassed by gentapping. That theoretical 200% duration drain speed sure work wonders on an 1frame action.
I'm saying that the devs themselves have called it smart gameplay so why punish something that is considered "risky and smart" that hard?
Right now, in that situation, with a killer returning the hook a survivor is told "don't do the smart, riskier option instead just hold W" It's silly.
I should say that I never really had a problem with DS as I don't tunnel double hook, and haven't used that perk is close to maybe 3 years, but just like MoM, gutting a perk just because it was overly strong is a bad decision.
What you have just described there is a situation where you have willingly put yourself at risk of being downed and hooked again. Why should you receive the protection of DS when you aren't trying to actively get away from the killer?
The point of the perk is that it is meant to deter (not prevent) a killer from tunneling the unhooked survivor straight off of the hook. It's not to allow survivors to repair gens in front of the killers face risk free.
It still allows you a free escape in the EGC, it still gives you a chance to escape if you are tunneled off the hook.
You've defeated your own argument there! By your very own words, it is smart & "risky". The inherent risk being that you are baiting the killer to come and put you straight back on the hook.
I think said risky play shouldn't invalidate an entire perk slot. That's all I've got to say.
DS being gutted means nothing to me outside of being sad that there'll be even less perk variety in the future. But all its going to mean, if the perk stays in this form, is more Prove thyselfs/borrowed times or adrenalines, which, in my opinion are far more powerful as a stand alone perk.
No. This is exactly why DS was changed the first place. If you have time to do all of those things you aren't being tunneled. Only change that i would revert is that you should be allowed to heal yourself without de-activating DS. MAYBE heal others with drastic reduction of DS timer.
You only get hit by DS if you're tunneling, end of story. If you get hit by DS on every hook state, the problem isn't the perk, it's how you're playing to get hit by it.
But it's your choice to invalidate the perk slot through your risky gameplay. Just like if you get found and hooked first, you invalidate your Deliverance. The idea is to take some responsibility for your own gameplay instead of relying on crutch perks to get you through.
All of the other perks you have mentioned are pretty much meta already. The presence or absence of DS won't change their pick rate.
rescuing another survivor from the hook should not make DS passive
no it was designed with player choice. when to use it. it didn't have to be used right away. this is how it should stay. it isn't if the killer is tunneling or not, it just gives the survivors the requirement to be tactical about its use, just as the killers must be tactical in using their power and perks. what you are wanting is to remove the choice from the player and make it easy mode, which survivors have it very easy now. and YES as a solo queue survivor I CAN do gens, totems AND get out about 50% of the time as long as I do not just blindly go do things. Stop trying to make it easier on survivors and wanting it HARDER on killers (no I am not saying that the second automatic DS makes it hard) by having them nerfed and still make it easier on the survivors. as it is the game is hemorrhaging killers which make wait times for survivors longer and longer.
We can expand the stun timer from 5 to 10 seconds, I guess. Or 20 seconds, I don't care. This would be still better, than the DS before the nerf.
That makes no sense, if you tap one of those for one second it completely deactivates.
Why are you gen tapping if you are being chased?
I guess it should deactivate if you finish healing yourself, because then you can at least resist two hits.
If you are doing any of what you listed you aren't being tunneled
If you get caught and couldn't loop the killer Even with BT.
A quick two tap survivor as i call it. then you falling back on that ds..
Especially at endgame too.
Okay, before we get into my rebuttal, I want to address this because it's a huge pet peeve of mine.
Stop trying to make it easier on survivors and wanting it HARDER on killers...
I'm entitled to argue anything I want, within the community guidelines. If you're not willing to discuss with me, that's fine, just let me know and we'll end the discussion. Another thing, I don't want killers to be gutted and survivors to be easy mode, you're just assuming things about me at this point, which I also don't like in discussions.
Let's try this again: Let's have a reasonable discussion or else, I'll just end the conversation and move on.
No it was designed with player choice. when to use it. it didn't have to be used right away. this is how it should stay. it isn't if the killer is tunneling or not, it just gives the survivors the requirement to be tactical about its use, just as the killers must be tactical in using their power and perks.
Not a good comparison, you're comparing a perk that has one use to a power that can be used throughout the game. To add on, DS has so many conditions to prevent abuse upon of the counterplay that killers can do against it, having it active on every hook won't be the end of the world. UNLESS you tunnel religiously, but even then, the survivor might have deactivated the perk from earlier or you can probably just wait out the timer by slugging, you might catch a survivor going for the rescue if you're lucky.
Alternatively, to avoid all the trouble, you can not tunnel in the first place? Just play normal and do your best with hooks, if you do well enough with a decent killer, you won't have to resort to tunneling because your hooks are keeping survivors busy and away from generators. Killer isn't rocket science unless you're playing a low tier killer against a decent group of survivors, but at that point, DS isn't the problem, that's solely to do with the killer.
Like I have responded to many people you can tap one of those things and it deactivates. For example, you can get unhooked and want to finish a gen because it's almost done but oh no the killer started to come back and now your DS is deactivated now you're getting tunneled. I know how you are going to respond "Don't do the gen then if you know the killer is going to come back". You don't know if the killer is going to come back. There is a big flaw in the new DS
You aren't tapping a gen in a chase, you can tap it right after getting unhooked and start working on it. But then the killer immediately comes back now your DS is deactivated so then you get tunneled
Like I have responded to many people you can tap one of those things and it deactivates. For example, you can get unhooked and want to finish a gen because it's almost done but oh no the killer started to come back and now your DS is deactivated now you're getting tunneled.
You don't know if they are going to come back. Does it look like I have mind-reading abilities
Hrm, perhaps I'll play the Devil's Advocate here. I'll rethink it again; done. I still think the current version is fine. You guys will just have to take your chances working objectives. :)
I think you, in general, should always assume they are going to come back and relocate as the base assumption. Healing on hook is making the callout of "this killer found something else to do in the time period it took for me to get unhooked". I pretty much always leave hook and roam to find people because I don't want to sit on hook while a bunch of people finish gens. But if I don't find anyone while wandering, and an unhook happens I am going back 100% of the time. I have clues that at least 2 people are in the area of the unhook.