Monto vs BHVR game was embarrassing
Seriously, are these the guys that tested the Ruin changes? This isn’t a fair representation of low rank players, it was just bad. No looping skills, running away from pallets to dead areas, going down almost immediately in chases.
To too it off two of them even ran Calm Spirit assuming people would be playing Doctor on the PTB, so they had an advantage most people won’t use on live after the first week fad wears off. Which I guess is smart but also kind of sleezy and wouldn’t give an accurate feedback.
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Hehe 🐶🐶🐶
This is a ridiculous thought.
Did you question the devs skill when they nerfed DS?
Did you question the devs skill when they nerfed BT?
Did you question the devs skill when they nerfed BNPs?
Did you question the devs skill when they nerfed Instas?
Did you question the devs skill when they nerfed Healing Times?
Did you question the devs skill when they changed Freddy?
Did you question the devs skill when they nerfed Vacuum?
You only question their ability to play when it's a change YOU dislike, it happens all the time, nobody is questioning how much they play unless it's something they disagree with, it's the ultimate form of bias that is shown so prevalently on this forum, it's ridiculous.
I'm not really "on the devs' side" when it comes to some of their balancing decisions, but I can't believe I'm actually going to defend the devs here.
Ok, so, first of all - like some people already pointed out, you don't have to be a great player at a certain game in order to be qualified to design or balance it.
I don't think some of you guys appreciate that these guys work on the game, it's their literal job to work on it. They're not sitting in a fun gaming room playing all day - they work all day, on this game. You should probably be amazed that some of them even want to hear the words "Dead by Daylight" after about 10 hours of working Dead by Daylight.
Being great at the video game also doesn't make you a perfect judge of it. Again, this was already said here but I'll repeat it.
There are a lot of high-skill streamers in this game (Fungoose, ScottJund, Zubat, OhTofu and so on) who have thousands upon thousands of hours in DBD and their skill kind of skews their views of it.
In his recent video about the Ruin change, Scott said that he knows he's probably going to be fine without old Ruin (he will) but that he recognizes it's not a standard that you can apply to every Killer out there because he literally plays this game for a living all day.
There are other streamers with insane hours and high skill who don't have as much clarity. They'll readily state that something is too strong because they have it too easy while it's a struggle for anyone who, y'know, isn't them.
Devs also don't have the time to become God Gamers and demanding that they do before they have a right to balance the game is very, very detached from reality.
They also don't make their decisions in a vacuum, so tying up Mat Walker to a gamer chair and forcing him to play DBD for 14 hours a day for three months isn't going to result in him immediately jumping out of the chair to rework all the maps (in just an hour, right?) on his own accord.
You do know that no balancing decision is one Rank 20 Survivor Main going "I want this" and the rest of the staff going "right away, my lord"?
I also like the "they have QA? wouldn't have noticed with how broken the game is!" argument.
Like, you have no idea how broken it was before the QA got to it. You don't know what bugs and issues QA found that never made it to the live version.
Also, there's deadlines and unforseen things that crop up when take something live because they weren't there in the tests.
Again, can't believe you guys are having me defend BHVR, but here you go.
Blanche is the art director. Alpoirier is a 3D Artist
They may not be good survivors but the art in this game is beyond brilliant, they are very good at their jobs.
Yeah I also find the argument "but killers with 4500 hours can do it so why can't you?" Kinda stupid
Not everyone has the time or energy to become a god at the game just to play
I never expect Devs to be good at thier own game it's understandable now if people expect that with every game they play they are sure gonna end up disappointed
Probably wanted to see how cool their map looks and plays even though they don't play much, then have the forum talk mad trash about how they played, it's a wonder why these guys don't play the game more, eh?
Yet killers are constantly complaining that they balance the game around low rank survivors, but when it comes to survivors telling killers that better killers can do it, that point doesn't matter.
That's only a fallacy if it's the same person making both arguments. The people that use those people to justify a ruin nerf are not the same people that use their extreme experience as a counterargument.
They burned a map offering for Red Forest. That's a few maps behind the new rework. Should've been Lery's, but even a Hawkins Lab offering would've been more understandable.
Yeah cus everyone’s ungrateful and picks at them when they do something they don’t like. Worse community of players ever
To some people, being bad at something goes hand in hand with not understanding it. And they aren't wrong.
I didn't look at the offering screen, my bad - either way, they're rank 20 survivors they clearly play next to nothing and just wanted to go through the maps and play a little, and then everyone here is trash talking them because it's just assumed they make balance decisions.
I’m not saying be great at the game or a pro or have thousands of hours. I’m saying have a general understanding of the gsme
Well, they're artists anyway so enjoy talking smack about artists and assuming they're the ones deciding about ruin, lol.
They know that a big map is bad for the doctor, they know calm spirit is a counter to the doctor, and they know that there is a very high chance they’re going against doctor because it’s a PTB mostly for doctor changes. They deserve criticism for their play when they came in trying to bully.
Always a bridesmaid :(
You came here making a post trying to act as if these people shouldn't be making the decisions (They Aren't)
It's a PTB and everyone is running doc counter, SHOCK HORROR, people running counters for a killer they know is being played? WOW BETTER CALL THEM ALL OUT.
Lmao, what a joke.
If their test crew did have thousands of hours, ruin would be gone within the first 30 seconds to 1 minute of the game, anything else and they are leaving it up on purpose.
Aw I'd love to be a raccoon whisperer too :)
Ragging on them just 'cause they lost is unnecessary. I don't think everyone working at BHVR should be expected to be gods at the game. However, their loadout shows intent to make some poor Doctor player testing out the rework on the PTB miserable; they just happened to get Monto.
Seeing employees eager to ruin the fun of one of their customers makes me uncomfortable and worried about the general attitude of everyone else who works on the game.
The same argument could be made that ruin was fine cuase survivors with 1000 hours could deal with it
Both ways even, not every survivor has the time and energy to become a god at skillchecks to beat ruin
I can honestly understand why ruin had to be remade, it was just an annoying perk in general
Especially seeing how almost every killer had it cause they've been forcefed how much of a nececity it was
I guess now we can only wait and hope that if ruin was that needed and the genspeed is out of control the devs will do something about it
Literally everyone on the ptb is running that kind of stuff, to assume the art devs should "play nice" because someone is testing the doctor is ridiculous, if no one ran these set ups no one would know if they make him criminally underpowered or something.
Do you think killer devs should let the last survivor go because if they kill everyone it'll be a miserable game for the survivors? No, you don't because killers aren't supposed to make the survivors life bliss, and the same goes for survivors, they aren't supposed to make it easy for killers.
killer devs
😂
I honestly don't think they tried to ruin anybody's fun. Based on how they played, i'm going to assume they were just tryin to not get annihilated.
They don't have to play nice, but it looks like an attempt at bullying some random player of the game that they help create. It really is different when you're employees of the company. There are different expectations. If they had bullied some rank 20 Doctor, it would've reflected badly on BHVR. Being employees means they're not normal players, no matter how skilled or unskilled they are. They are always representatives of the company.
And obviously unskilled players running a loadout like that against a killer player of unknown rank/skill proves nothing either way.
Do you REALLY think they expected to get a killer anywhere close to rank 20? lmfao
They knew exactly what would happen, they'd probably get a high ranked killer (because PTB ignores ranking) and they know new players are very unlikely to just go into ptb to try out a killer they're bad with.
The fact is, this community is soft, someone runs a map offering "BULLYING" Someone runs a counter perk "BULLYING". You guys are so incredibly soft it's insane.
Dead by daylight and "balance" is starting to seem like an oxymoron at this point. One minute survivors are pleased and the next killers are pleased. I honestly don't know what you're expecting at this point, but just assume it isn't going to happen.
You would think they'd use better perks if they wanted to properly compete. I mean they JUST changed Doc and 2 of them ran Calm Spirit, 3 of them had Dead Hard, a shroud, two rotten oaks, a map offering to the largest map in the game, as well as two toolboxes (one with BNP) and two flashlights.
Not sayin they were tryin to "bully" (because if you're a rank 19 trying to bully killers, you need to get a life) but dirty tactics could be at play. It's a shame their own system did them dirty with a rank 1 killer.
Most of us who have been here a while already knew this.
I've watch that video a couple of hours ago and I was like "WAIT? those are actual players from BHVR? Wow that is so sad" and honestly, it really is.
They didn't get done dirty, the ranking system is ignored on PTB, like it always has, they knew exactly what was going to happen, they're a bunch of people who don't play and just stacked everything that had.
And please, don't ever come to me acting like dead hard is even remotely good, if you're a terrible killer that can't remember who has it then you deserve to have it used against you, alternatively, go watch any streamer who runs dead hard and you'll see how often it fails and ends with you exhausted on the floor without even going off.
You went on a whole rant about the DbD community being too soft and you're actin as if my post is heresy to even claim.
I know ranking is taken out of PTB, THAT'S WHAT DOD THEM DIRTY.
And the issue of DH not working isn't DH, it's their servers.
acting like your post is heresy? lmao, ok buddy.
It's not being "done dirty" if it's intentional.
and my point still stands, it doesn't work 95% of the time, so complaining about it on any level right now is ridiculous.
There was no confirmation in that particular video from Monto that the survivors he played against were actual behaviour employees. Though, if they were? YOWZER! SMH
Monto played against some of the art team, of course we should instead pretend that the art team decided to rework ruin.
With how ######### and out of touch a change it is, I'd prefer it if they came out and said it was the art team that tested the ruin nerf. The mere idea that the actual developers in charge of balance did it is frightening. I'm desperately reaching for a reason to think they're not total morons.
All the things you mentioned are in the game and therefore valued for testing
They need to use counter-perks against a dokter during testing to see if that counterperk doesn't completly nullify a killer or that it actually gives some value against said killer
What's the point of a ptb if you're not going to test every possibilty?
Not to mention calm spirit and doktor ability work closely together so there is a greater chance a bug could happen with those 2
Ruin really doesn't bother me, never used it, always been red rank on both sides, I guess it's the mentality that comes with actually being good at the game I guess.
Eh, it's the targeted nature of the loadout. If it had just been the normal meta or meme builds or anything else, then it wouldn't have caught my eye.
Still, it's not like I can prove anything, and I'm not here calling for them to be fired or anything ridiculous like that. But appearances are everything, and my friend's first reaction when he saw the Monto video was disgust at the survivors' loadouts. He doesn't play that much, he's not on the forums, he's just a casual player who can't remember what half the perks do (so, basically, the kind of player DbD is trying to cater to).
I wasn't referring to one map offering or to one perk; I was referring to all of it together. It's the combination that raises an eyebrow.
Like I say in my above reply to ggallinftw, my friend who's a casual player's gut reaction to the video wasn't even about them losing, it was about the builds they ran. Appearances are everything. You have a community that's divided with many very vocally upset about a much-used perk getting nerfed, and then you see employees with toolboxes and a BNP. It appears to some like rubbing salt in the wound. Considering how the reason for nerfing Ruin is "the survivors' fun," and killers are saying it appears the devs don't care about the killer's fun, this is the exact opposite of the message you want to send. That's just how it is.
In the live game, most SWF groups aren't going to go into a match with a build targeted to neuter one specific killer. A lot of players consider it bad form to run something like that on the PTB. Yes, some still do it, but it's still widely regarded as not a cool thing to do.
For all the people that keep asking this, someone on Monto’s YouTube comment found that that they all are friends, all names end in BHVR, they are from Quebec, and have rank 20 survivors fully perked out... if you still wanna believe these are four people pretending to be BHVR devs on the PTB so be it.
Curious what bug do you think they had to check in the largest map in the game?
This has to be some of the embarrassing conversation about DBD I've ever had.
you're essentially saying BHVR employees can't play what they want because it may "look bad"? That is actually the most ridiculous thing I've ever had to read, they want to have fun, they are RANK TWENTY why is this even a conversation I'm partaking in.
Yea I'm sure your friend went "OMG THEY RAN PERKS THAT THEY LIKED? OOOOOOH MY GOSSH AND A 25% BNP? HOW DARE THEYYYYYYY! OMG THEY PICKED A MAP TOO? REEEEEEEE THEYRE BULLIES".
Anyone can change names on pc at anytime. I just said Monto never confirmed it in his video.
Calm down. LOL
No, my friend didn't say that. He basically said, "That's not cool."
I'm not upset about this, and neither was he. It left a bad taste in my mouth, that's all. I'm not emotional about it or anything. I'm saying that from a business standpoint employees are always representatives, and they should think about the message they send with the things they do. That's all I'm saying.
Edit: Or maybe he said "That's not okay." I don't remember exactly. He's in business, he looks at everything from that point of view.
So bhvr employees should just run 0 perks, items & offerings so they don't accidentally win and make someone look bad?
I am developer myself. Do I know how to use all products I have developed in the most effective way? Nope. Do I know how to identify and fix problems effectively. Yup. Can I say what customer really needs as a next feature or improvement? I can guess, I can discuss solution with the customer, but he just know much better.
The problem here is not they are not good in the game, that's totally fine - I would rather have them spend their working time actually working on improving the game than just playing it to understand the problems. That's what customers are for, e.g. streamers. But it really looks like that suggestions for improvements from customers are being ignored here. Please correct me if I am wrong and there have any suggestions from streamers/Fog Whisperers/ Forum Feedback section been implemented to improve the balance, etc.
I don't think I'd ever want other people to see me playing my own game as a developer. It's so much pressure. Imagine wanting to have a fun time playing a game you helped make, not playing very well and having random people online trying to invalidate your entire career because of it.
I never said that, and I never would say that.
Look, when Ghostface came out, I didn't run around using OoO to ruin the fun of every GF I came across. I considered that to be a dick move. You can play the game and try to win without being a dick. Knowing what killer you're going up against and specifically trying to neuter them... if the game were meant to be played that way, survivors would be able to see killers in the lobby.
It's a PTB for testing things against the Doctor, who knew people would try using things against the doctor. and anyone that is taking PTB games seriously enough to be discouraged from playing any more needs a reality check.
again, trying to prevent people that work at bhvr using what they want is ridiculous.