Why do survivors dislike NOED?
As someone who plays both roles, I have no issue with ''No One Escapes Death''. Sure, it's not particularly fun to play against, but if it does come into play, then it's entirely the survivors fault!
However, many survivors post-game give me a lot of slack for using this perk, despite running Decisive Strike, Adrenaline & other top tier survivor perks which could arguably be even more frustrating to play against. In fact, the survivor equivalent to NOED is ''Adrenaline'', which has no counter-play available to every killer, yet NOED does!
I often use NOED to punish survivors who rush generators and decide to not leave once the gates are open and want to be cheeky & annoying. Many people call NOED a perk which is for ''bad killers''. However, they ignore the fact that the correspondent killer is playing with 3 perks for the rest of the game and may not even have the chance to use it if the Survivors cleanse totems.
To me, people seem to dislike ''No One Escapes Death'' due to its power punishing gen rushing, along with any decision to stay in the end game.
Thoughts?
Comments
Bad argument.
Look, noed can be countered, it can reward for losing but mostly, especially high ranks, it is to punish the 4 minute 5 gen games even when you're a good killer, anyone that gives toxic for it either was just bad or the 4 minute gang, both definitely deserves it but for different reasons
Totems inaccessible? What you smoking? They are all accessable and super easy to do, I've seen a game where all totems got totalled in 1 minute 10 cause that's what they all went for (oh boy did I think a build to punish that whilst forcing people to have to attempt regardless) just do totems (unless they all lit, be careful if they are all lit)
Adrenaline, in fact, can be countered. However it is extremely situational. Plus, you won’t even know if they have it. When you are carrying a survivor and the Exit gates become powered, drop the survivor and it will trigger their Adrenaline. If you hit them fast enough, their adrenaline will be completely useless in the latter. Plus, it resets the wiggle meter. However like I said, it is completely situational, you need to have basically picked up the survivor at the exact moment that the generators were powered in order for this to work.
I didn't even read, just to answer your title, "cause they die to it"
"Just cleanse 4head" lol I dont mind it, I've had survivors cleanse all my totems as killer and NOED doesnt trigger, I'm like "Aww man" and as a survivor when you realize they have NOED its like "ugh noed" but you just move on, it would be hypocritical to get upsed if I use it myself sometimes :P
14 secs* :) unless they changed it?
It's funny that survivors have problems with killer perks that are essentially a get out of jail free card while at the same time see no reason to dislike DS or Adrenaline. It's almost as if perks that don't actually have much counter play or strategy to them aren't fun to play against.
You make a compelling point.
Up until now I hadn't considered this topic from your viewpoint, but now that you've put forth such an eloquent rebuttal to my stance, I have to concede.
Perhaps the more salient topic of it being a meta-warping perk would be more to your liking?
The Killers objective is to kill all the survivors hence their name. Their objective is not to prevent them from completing generators or else the match would end when that is done. So your whole statement about it rewarding Killers for failing to do their objective is 100% false. I like how you say same old same old in this thread but then come out with the same old tired argument against it.
That's exactly how it should be. I waste a perk slot now you have to waste a perk slot. And neither of us actually knows if we did waste it or not. Balance.
Only time I really hate is when you already have an instant down and take it. Myers in tier 3, with noed, bubba or Billy, or huntress using iridescent heads... really? You needed noed too???
I wasn't arguing that noed rewards failure, just that those perks listed don't reward failure, they are just hardcore safety nets that happen all through the game. NOED is a really strong safety net, but only happens at the end. People just get mad because it's so strong that even a bad killer can turn a potential 4 man escape into a 4K game. They can't really complain though, because of how avoidable it is. I just get mad when my team is doing gens well, so i start cleansing totems, and when there is 1 totem left, i get into a chase, the last 2 gens pop, and i get 1 shot and killed in 1 hook because no one wants to save vs NOED. Then my teammates who killed me more than the killer did laugh at the killer for an ez escape even when he had NOED.
That movement speed buff comes in clutch especially 110 movement speed killers
I play a good amount of both sides,so i feel unbiased. I don't even think NOED is a good perk, it's dodgy to use because you would rarely get more than one kill most times. I would never run it personally, there's just way better alternatives. That being said, i do think it is extremely lame to play against when unexpected. Usually you can tell when someone is running it because if they are playing quite badly for the rank they are in,so its pretty obvious. Thats when you want to cleanse.
Hatch rewards survivors for failure, same mechanic, different skin.
I don’t dislike it at all, it’s a perfectly balanced perk probably one of the most balanced in the game to be honest. It’s strong but it isn’t used for 95% of the game which gives the killer a massive disadvantage and it can be destroyed all together.
But back in my time of hating it I did make a possible change that people might like who currently dislike the perk.
This is it:
A Hex rooting its power on hope. You are animated by the power of your Hex Totem when the Survivors are taking their precious time.
Once the trial has surpassed 15 minutes and there is still a generator active, if there is a Dull Totem remaining on the Map, this Hex is applied to it.
While this Hex is active, Survivors suffer from the Exposed Status Effect and your Movement Speed is increased by 2/3/4 %.
The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.
"And the beast became faster and more powerful as if The Entity's shadowy whips were lashing at its back."
Of course this timer or the amount of gens remaining in order for activation could be changed but maybe people would like this better or worse, who knows.
Survivors are too lazy and whiny to do something that simple, just look at this forum.
What does that even mean? Find them and cleanse them. You can even do it *after* someone is hit with noed and still get everyone and leave *shocked expression*
I mainly play survivor and I still find time to do my bones lol. Everyone thinks it's "genrush then gaterush" but your game isn't over until you're out the gate. So take the time to find and cleanse.
The amount of mental gymnastics people do regarding this perk and/or to negate their lack of escape in the end game is both sad and hilarious.
I feel you I do a gen maybe two and still knock out most of the bones in the game with just me. What they want to do is gen rush and not have to do other parts of the game that counter exactly what they're complaining about.
They're just lazy.
I'm an ok survivor (rank 7 atm, never been higher than 5) and a really crap killer (rank 16 atm, highest I've gotten), and in both cases I have no issues with NOED. As survivor I always cleanse any totems I find, and as killer I usually get bullied by the survivors (again, I really suck as killer), so it's nice when they make the mistake of not cleansing totems and I get some payback.
To put it simple, perks such as adrenaline requires you to work for them. So to make a perk that can counter it toreward you from not doing your duty correctly by letting all suriviors do gens and escape, doesn't make any sense at all.
You can be let's say a rank 20 killer and still have an chance to win against a group of rank 1 suriviors from you doing bad at the game. Not only did you fail to hook a single surivior, but also failed to protect gens just to know you get rewarded? It's like you not studying for a test and still managing to pull off an A star, while other people studied for the test and got an B +. You understand where I'm coming from right?
This doesn't mean I want it to be nerf, but rather make it so if a killer hooks a certain number of suriviors, the perk will activate. This means you not only worked for it, but also inspire you not to lose hope by seeing that you have 4 suriviors alive and healthy without you having anything to support you. It is also why you don't se many good killers using it because they usually feel guilty on using things that are unfair (for example scott Jund didn't want to use the spirit because he didn't see it as being fair to suriviors).
Incorrect.
As of the EGC, Adrenaline can now proc during the ultimate failure state of having 0 gens done.
You can argue that, the surivior done his job by surivioring long against the killer during that period.
Noed also activates once hatch has been close, and in my opinion, I see that being balance. The killer worked to kill all the surivior, and the surivior lefted alive, worked to stay alive the longest out of all the suriviors.
I don't really have an issue with noed. I usually just think we should have got all the totems. I always saw noed as a "second chance perk" which survivors (me included) use.
I do get annoyed when a killer gets a 4k off noed but I understand why some would use it. I do believe there should be a counter for totems since it would help solo survivors catch up to the knowledge swf teams have.
Especially if the survivor is sandbagging and/or just hops in and out of lockers all game.
Earned it!
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I'm sure that, balance wise, you see no issue with a killer like Trapper, who has played 'fairly' all game, losing the 4 health states in the endgame for not intentionally camping or tunneling players out of the game.
That is obviously against the rules of the game, so the surivior would get banned for doing that. So if you call that an reward, then okay.
Did you even read my comment to the end(then again it was a bit long)? I said and I will quote "if a killer hooks a certain number of suriviors, the perk will activate. This means you not only worked for it, but also inspire you not to lose hope by seeing that you have 4 suriviors alive and healthy".
So tell me, where in the world did I try to make it sound unfair or unreasonable? I said the perk abilities shouldn't change, but the description to activating it should change to make it more earned!
1). If someone wants to/knows their team will soon get wrecked, they can slowly wander the map, tapping gens and/or going in and out of lockers all game, waiting for people to die - It's 100% unbannable.
2). You did not address my question/implication regarding current Adrenaline:
"I'm sure that, balance wise, you see no issue with a killer like Trapper, who has played 'fairly' all game, losing the 4 health states in the endgame for not intentionally camping or tunneling players out of the game."
3). I don't read fictitious reworks of perks on either side of the game that are never going to come to fruition.
1.) That is sleath and I don't see much of the problem with that. Is it bad for a surivior trying to stay alive and not get caught?
2.) By you saying the trapper playing "fairly" it means he was following the duty of the game, right? So in that case noed should be activated. I never said noed should not exist anymore and I do not see the point of how it relates to noed. I never said killers should be treated weak or pathetic when up against a surivior team while playing "fair . So once again, I do not understand where you are getting at.
3.) That is very untrue because the devs has listened and made perks in which are very similar to ideas people wanted to be seen on dead by daylight. So there is always an possibility of your idea coming true, regardless of it being old.
It's basically devour hope without the work.
Point #2 is referring to 4 survivors healing via Adrenaline in that scenario.
Because it rewards bad gameplay, at the cost of us having to spend time to prevent it in the first place (cleansing totems).
And if the killer dunks on your team with 3 perks and uses NOED to clean-up the last 1-2 kills?
Is that bad gameplay?
I guess you can always blame your teammates in that scenario.
No, that isn’t bad gameplay. I would just like to see killers have to work for noed, just like survivors have to work for MoM with protection. survs shouldn’t have to go out of their way because of a killer perk. the killer should have to work throughout the match to activate it. this, imo, would be more fair.
Or maybe because almost every killer is averaging between a 55-70% kill rate (and 60-75% at red rank), survivors don’t feel they have the time to do all the totems 🤔
I have 2 issues with NOED. One being no requirement for the killer, so a camping killer can get it to proc every time due to survivors having to gen rush to counter the camping. Expecting survivors to cleanse dulls against a camping killer is absurd. “Just do gens” is the response every time someone complains about camping. Never once have I seen “just do gens and dull totems”. Two, is when a competent killer uses it. Luckily, most good killers know it’s bs and don’t run it....but if they wanted to, it would be ridiculous.
It means you literally can't get at the totems if they spawn in an inaccessible location. The only play you have if that happens is not to cleanse any and hope your team does the same until it procs, and hope it isn't one of the ones you can't get to.
Where are there inaccessible totems though? Don't think I've encountered that in over a year of playing
I think anyone who still whines about survivors being good and killers being bad is just an idiot. I've played the game since it came out and even when survivors where op back when flashlights where good and perks hadn't been nerfed into non existence, the killers were still strong. Even when I fought against rank 1 swf with flashlights and insta heals I could still 4k 9/10 matches without need. Now it's impossible to do well as a solo survivor cause if your good the killer just tunnels and camps you. That's why I quit playing this dumpster fire of a game, I'll come back when the playerbase drops enough for them to start actually balancing again.
I hate No One Escapes Death because it's a reward for failure. It's a good perk commonly used by newer players, unskilled players, and very rarely new killers just released or prestiged because it's a perk someone got.
If survivors did well then it's a punishment for doing the objective and a reward for a killer who couldn't even secure his objectives.
I dont feel a killer earns the perk it's basically a less conditional Devour Hope. Except at least Devour Hope is a reward for the killer doing well and doing his Objectives.
Of all the games anyone had played as survivor or killer with NoeD how many times have you really needed it?
Mostly the thing I dont like about it is simply it turns a fun possibly balanced game into a joke at the end.
Typically, I don't mind NOED in most cases, but if I do bones, which I typically do because I run Detective's Hunch AND Inner Strength, then get chased and hooked.
Then the last generator is powered and Detective's Hunch reveals a totem directly beside my teammates, and NOED activates. I feel very aggravated because I know I am likely going to die on first hook due to my teammates being lazy. In other words, I was the one who got punished for doing bones when my teammates didn't bother touching them.
This is why you need thick skin as a survivor because there are going to be things that will really test your patients. 😕
I hate noed for the big reason of stupid teammates will be stupid. I have games where I cleanse like 3 to 4 totems because when I see a totem a break it because duh you should it's also easy bloodpoints and inner strength is fun to use. So a message to all the frankly dumb survivors just C L E A N S E
The only thing to take from this thread is some of you are still running Small Game when Detective's Hunch is far superior.
I can almost guarantee that if gens get done insanely fast with zero pressure the killer has NOED and its time to look for totems instead of exit gates. Noed has that 500 point bonus for cleansing if you wait until it's activated. I've never been mad at it, you can usually gurantee the killer will also camp that hook with Noed in effect meaning safe cleansing. Thrill of the hunt with Noed and ruhroh, it's going to be rough but we rushed this is what we get not searching for totems 🤷♂️. Usually someone plays Noed with ruin like a noob so it's dead with ruin early game.
My personal take on this as someone who really only plays survivor is that there no one should have a problem with NOED unless we’re up against a bad killer - and by ‘bad killer’ I mean those times a killer literally just stands around the whole match in the same place until all generators are completed. But even so, that itself a rare occurrence, or it is for me, at least.
As I was saying, I have no problem with NOED. Yes, it can be annoying, like when I know that 4/5 totems are cleansed and it just happens to be the one I missed, but that’s no ones fault but the survivors. I enjoy cleansing totems, as someone who doesn’t do too well in chases, cleansing is a guarantee on at least a few points, and if the team is helped unknowingly, fantastic. Besides, often (excluding most late-game perks) observant survivors can figure out the perk set of the killer. An example of this can be easily seen with killer perks such as BBQ or nurses.
Treating NOED as an active perk in relation to glowing before late game would essentially be a great disadvantage to the killer anyway, or so I see it. Killers already run the risk of having it destroyed by careful players, and now with Nancys perks, anyone using Inner Strength. To have NOED be treated as active before it comes into play would basically defeat its purpose, like the most late game survivor perks became after the End Game was introduced.
On top of this, NOED gives what is essentially a final chance for killers both new and experienced alike, and even then it’s not an invincible perk because the totem can still be destroyed and the survivors still rescued. In many cases with experienced killers NOED mightn’t even need to use it - I’ve been in plenty of matches where it never came into effect because the killer had us on from the very beginning. It also gives new killers a chance at a bigger kill count, as someone who is the absolute worst at killer (hence only playing survivor) matches can be frustrating, and humiliating even when against toxic survivors who grief killers for no reason knowing they’re against an inexperienced killer.
Essentially, it really all comes down to If You Don’t Want To Run The Risk Of NOED, Do Every Totem You See. Most time, they’re in an obviously space, and if not, you’ll likely have seen that space being used when looking for totems like Ruin. If not, learn the pattern. I promise you, it exists, and when you learn it you will find all the totems with ease.
the fact you think every survivor is like this...
I think noed is fine.. I think it's more of a problem for inexperienced players who haven't learned how to deal with it yet.
Most of the time you'll be able to tell if the killer has noed well in advance. For example, survivors can usually guess most of the perks a killer is using during a match and determine if there is a perk slot that's unaccounted for. If that's the case, assume it's an endgame perk (noed, blood warden, remember me, etc) and play around that.
Another easy tell is that if a killer is particularly campy or tunnelly and seem to ignore survivors doing objectives (e. G. Have tunnel vision for the survivor they're chasing and ignoring other survivors on gens), then they probably have noed.
Lastly, unless you can tell they are playing really well, certain killers tend to run noed more often than others, such as clown, wraith, spirit, trapper, ghostface, bubba.
In terms of playing around the perk. The easiest thing is to check the totem spawns around the map and either cleanse them, or memorise where they are. If the activated noed, just run through the spots you remember and check for an active totem. If you can't find it, then just leave the match. There is absolutely no point in going for altruism during the endgame if the killer still has noed, unless you're going for wglf stacks, which may give you more points than an escape.
If in doubt of noed, and the killer still hasn't smacked anyone during the endgame, just leave and take your 5k points. Don't stick around if you care about escaping