ZCerebrate
ZCerebrate
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@Bard said:
There are a couple good ones.
The bathroom staircase on Midwich and the School doors are good examples. Keeping them up is strong, but you have a real incentive to destroy them in the right situation.
That's the case - walls should be used in this manner to be strong for the killer and not the survivor with the option to break them as the match progresses to increase your own map mobility in exchange for unlocking a stronger loop for the survivors. Unfortunately most breakable walls being designed right now are "If you don't break this" then the survivor has an infinite or near-infinite on tiles like some house of pain or garage setups on New preschool. Macmillan is using the same design on a lot of places like Ironworks and Mother's Dwellings as "answers" to the main building loops (Especially the new Ironworks upstairs that is just a window with the new blocked doorway).
Killers are either
1) Forced to go out of their way to break these when there is "some" pressure in the game and they go that way or during a chase that a survivor uses one to get a ton of distance or outright escape.
2) The GOD AWFUL method of trying to break all the really strong ones as soon as the match starts while 4 survivors are unpressured - popping the first two gens. Maybe Behavior seems to think killers need a weaker early game because they "snowball" the last few gens by the "statistics" they're seeing... only not starting that snowball adequately while the first 2~3 gens go for free (naturally due to map size and split pressure) is the main reasons killers feel powerless against organized survivor teams.
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@SimplyNotFun said:
of all the places to complain about in this game, this place should be the biggest one. Generators are way too close in proximity to one another as it is allowing for easy gen patrol (therefore easy to find survivors)
this place I found has pushed past the boundaries of an acceptable distance between generators by somehow allowing 4 generators to end up on one side of the map with no generator(s) in the middle of the map. First of all, I think even 3 gens should never be on one side of a map as close as they are on this map AT ALL. They should definitely be spread out more. If survivors can’t do their objective because killers just have to patrol 3 gens 5 feet apart from one another how is that fun?
I've had that setup before and it makes an unwinnable situation / boring one quite often even if you don't have that.
2~3 survivors end up on one side of the map and start banging out their gens over there... you hook the other person on the far end of the map. Now you don't have to "face camp" as you can literally just stand in the middle choke point and watch ALL 3 avenues of approach so they cannot sneak past you.
Keep M1 slapping survivors - only commit to a full chase if they try to run past you for the rescue to bomb the hook and trade themselves (only real way to break this death grip other than by rushing past you together). Viola... match has insane pressure for the last 1~2 gens for free as you just walk around in a small loop especially if that first survivor you downed used up most of the resources on one side of the map (Like shack pallet etc).
It's terrible boring to play that way as killer even if it wasn't originally planned - just all the gens on the opposite end popped at some point so you got a free 3 gen. It's also terrible to be the survivor on the receiving end of it as you're left to 360 the killer and hope he is a potato as you try to lure him away for your downs to get just enough time to rush those last gens down effectively... a 4 man escape is unlikely if the killer isn't a potato.
Also it's one of the only maps where you can spawn extremely close to the killer due to spawn "tile proxmity" (3 tile rule I guess) where you're spawning on the same side as the killer while your teammates spawn on the other side... creating this issue even earlier.
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@Ryan489x said:
On both sides of the game you have killers and survivors who play to get the round over as fast as possible. These killers are also ones who play the special 4 year cakes if there are any left out there and then totally destroy a team. Do they not realize that the longer the game goes on the more points they will get in that case and so will survivors?
I'm both shocked and not shocked at the same time that people play the game like this. Had a killer tonight that brought in a mori tunneled like crazy, camped hooks and killed us all in less then 5 mins. I'll ask again isn't this game supposed to be fun and not a sadistic torture session?
I can understand having a daily where you have to mori someone, I have one of those right now. It feels like both sides have the attitude of we have to play to win every single time and if we don't we will just DC.
As a killer I play for fun, sometimes I have good games and sometimes I don't. However most of the time the teams I get are toxic tea bagging children. Even if they're not they act like it. So it's impossible to win no matter what side you're own.
- If you're a survivor you end up playing against killers that don't care about anything other then ending the game as fast as they can, sucking all the fun out of it.
- As a killer if you don't play hard to win you're just treated like a chump and called trash with use of every possible exploit and advantage a survivor has(I'm looking at you flashlights and pallet blinding). Not to mention today I could swear people were running through walls as survivors. it could just be the first person perspective throwing me off though. If you do play hard and try to win you're called a camper ect.
Lastly this is for both sides.
No one cares what rank you are but you, the higher in rank you climb the less fun the game becomes. Yeah you have to do so much to keep the rank you have but do you really think that the people you destroy and the killers you mess with see your rank at the end of a game and say "Damn they're good at this"? No they look at your rank and think wow no wonder they played such a fast, selfish and annoying game. this goes for both sides.
I guess more excerpts need to be added to the rulebook... If you burn a 4 year cake - you shall take it easy especially in the pressence of other Bloody Party Streamer effects
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@Demonl3y said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1664097#Comment_1664097
You couldnt counter the trails, thats why you can put them under the hooks.
Why wouldn't you be able to crouch walk out of them just like the Hag's? Or do you mean that Pyramid Head being a 115% killer with an AoE Ranged attack would prevent you from crouching out in time making it more than a little broken? Which is true if that's what you meant
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Not saying better tooltips wouldn't be nice - because it should be immediately clear (I guess the argument is that %'s, numbers and "math" are a turn off for a "fun casual party" game like DbD).
Anyways for you personally the Wiki has all the percentages listed if you hold your mouse over any of the "Slightly" "Moderately" etc tags.
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Dead_by_Daylight_Wiki
For the most part seems to be accurate as they're numbers they ripped from the files directly
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@Slashstreetboy said:
Great! I´m glad every DBD player now has agreed on a set of rules to fall back on if there´s ever any doubt about what is allowed and what is not.
@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662457#Comment_1662457
Ah, I understand now, Thanks. Must have missed the rule update, unfortunate timing I guess. Definitely saving this to show those rulebreakers.
(Nice wording by the way.)
We got the signatures all there.
@IIITweedleIII said:
Just to clarify, I didn't miss this to be a joke. But I also dont give a crap about anyone's opinion about Mori Kills. I enjoy them. It's one of the reasons I got this game. And make it a point that if you dont kill by your hand. You are not a Killer. Sacrificing to the Entity makes you a Sacrificer.
But all in all, I got the Entertainment value outta reading this, and not taking it serious. Hence, Rules Are Meant to be Broken.
Killers Gotta Kill 👺🔪
But... but... that's like your opinion. 😂
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Something I replied to a post in gen discussion to add to what people are saying.
"It's basically a technical impossibility to stop people from using voice communications completely in today's world. Would you make it so no 3rd party programs could be run at all? Even at one of the most intrusive BIOS level anti-cheat systems (That Riot's Valorant uses) can't stop most system level comms not to mention being ineffective against hacking even in that game (Though I guess you could say its less prevalent than a lot of other popular games). Even if that was possible - what stops people from having their smart phones on their desk next to them running the Discord Application to get the same effective voice comms. Or just a very basic group call?
First Potential Bad Solution: Perfect Matchmaking system that can somehow perfectly account for individual performance, performance with a single other person AND if that skilled or unskilled individual gets into a group with 3 other survivors of varying skill levels. What's the formula that helps pick the "perfect" killer for that 3 man of 8000 hours, 1000, 5 hours + one 500 hour random to have a balanced game on a magically balanced map for the right killer / perks and addons (Basically a few billion possible factors).
Second Potential Bad Solution: Stick all SWFs into their own separate queues meaning you need to be Duos or 4 Mans only. 3 Mans "should" not be stuck with a single solo in this magical world queue either. Queue times would increase as the player base is split further (Crossplay vs Crossplay Off playerbases currently which sort of worked against their own purpose of making crossplay to increase queue times etc). What places that killers into this queue? Do they opt for it or are they just forced into this pool once they hit a certain rating? Either way those queue times will be horrendous again and you will see people leave in droves when the queues are 10~20+ mins consistently, not just for a few like when the hidden MMR system was activate (It's currently off).
The only potential solution in my eyes: Give some form of communication and infomation share to even the solo queue players and accept that it is part of the game instead of trying to ignore that it is happening. Rework perks, perks and addons with that as the baseline assumption instead of looking at "80% of solo queue survivors get rekt - better nerf killers".
For example starting with survivor perks like Object of Obsession and make it so the ability to see the killer at every range is gone. The killer can now see your aura at 50m or further but the other survivors can also always see your aura. The killer's aura is revealed to all survivors for 4/5/6 seconds if you are running Object of Obsession and the killer begins a chase with you.
Similar reworks will need to be made usually in the favor of killers once "teamwork" becomes inherent in the game through info share whether it be through preset text emotes (Text wheel) or communicative icons for shorthand to prevent "mute all" and "Toxic screeching" scenarios by giving the game open voice or text chat (though that would be the simpliest option).
Balancing the game starts at making solo queue survivors stronger through their ability to coordinate and info share with one another like voice chat - whether they can work together or cooperate or not is not important as long as they have the potential to. Then they can balance against SWFs in a meaningful manner instead of ignoring their existence."
This is basically becoming an echo chamber because the only refute to it would be that Killers would be even weaker against these survivors who are communicating if the perk/power balancing done after this change is not done properly.
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It's basically a technical impossibility to stop people from using voice communications completely in today's world. Would you make it so no 3rd party programs could be run at all? Even at one of the most intrusive BIOS level anti-cheat systems (That Riot's Valorant uses) can't stop most system level comms not to mention being ineffective against hacking even in that game (Though I guess you could say its less prevalent than a lot of other popular games). Even if that was possible - what stops people from having their smart phones on their desk next to them running the Discord Application to get the same effective voice comms. Or just a very basic group call?
First Potential Bad Solution: Perfect Matchmaking system that can somehow perfectly account for individual performance, performance with a single other person AND if that skilled or unskilled individual gets into a group with 3 other survivors of varying skill levels. What's the formula that helps pick the "perfect" killer for that 3 man of 8000 hours, 1000, 5 hours + one 500 hour random to have a balanced game on a magically balanced map for the right killer / perks and addons (Basically a few billion possible factors).
Second Potential Bad Solution: Stick all SWFs into their own separate queues meaning you need to be Duos or 4 Mans only. 3 Mans "should" not be stuck with a single solo in this magical world queue either. Queue times would increase as the player base is split further (Crossplay vs Crossplay Off playerbases currently which sort of worked against their own purpose of making crossplay to increase queue times etc). What places that killers into this queue? Do they opt for it or are they just forced into this pool once they hit a certain rating? Either way those queue times will be horrendous again and you will see people leave in droves when the queues are 10~20+ mins consistently, not just for a few like when the hidden MMR system was activate (It's currently off).
The only potential solution in my eyes: Give some form of communication and infomation share to even the solo queue players and accept that it is part of the game instead of trying to ignore that it is happening. Rework perks, perks and addons with that as the baseline assumption instead of looking at "80% of solo queue survivors get rekt - better nerf killers".
For example starting with survivor perks like Object of Obsession and make it so the ability to see the killer at every range is gone. The killer can now see your aura at 50m or further but the other survivors can also always see your aura. The killer's aura is revealed to all survivors for 4/5/6 seconds if you are running Object of Obsession and the killer begins a chase with you.
Similar reworks will need to be made usually in the favor of killers once "teamwork" becomes inherent in the game through info share whether it be through preset text emotes (Text wheel) or communicative icons for shorthand to prevent "mute all" and "Toxic screeching" scenarios by giving the game open voice or text chat (though that would be the simpliest option).
Balancing the game starts at making solo queue survivors stronger through their ability to coordinate and info share with one another like voice chat - whether they can work together or cooperate or not is not important as long as they have the potential to. Then they can balance against SWFs in a meaningful manner instead of ignoring their existence.
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@ImBrakingBike said:
But what if your teammate gets hooked while you're about to open the gate? Don't you consider 99ing a legitimate strategy to try and reduce the pressure on your teammate that needs to be rescued?
It's an unintended strategy or player evolved behavior at first from playing around Blood Warden then the 2 minute EDC time. Basically it's something some Killers don't like to see at end game as they would "rather they just leave or at least start the timer since that mechanic is there for a reason".
I personally don't see too much issue with it as someone who plays killer and solo survivor considering I've downed plenty of people running towards a gate trying to tap the switch before they can leave or multiple hooks/4Ks because that altruistic end game rescue play against me playing hook defense. It's sort of a part of the game that doesn't have to be there though since the doors are "for all intents and purposes" open and it negates most Blood Wardens no matter how close to the door the killer death hooks a guy.
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@De_Deltin2 said:
before the 99% gates it was just open and run out because there was no "end game collapse",
Maybe we could make it so you can "damage" the exit gates? like a gen it slowly regresses?
Did you seriously make a relevant reply to this thread then made a new topic with that same reply?
Anyways - that's another option if the killer had to go to the exit gate themselves to "damage" it but it wouldn't really discourage 99%ing the doors as that's still going to be a lot of travel time for the killer and not really addressing "why" survivors are prepping the doors rather than just leaving.
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Because with MMR right now - ranked mode is "social mode" for a majority of players. Ranking up is meaningless for the most part and BHVR already has plans to phase it out completely for their new hidden MMR system that has been honed by tracking millions of matches and will fix 99.9% of all issues of matching solo, duo, trio survivors and then the appropriate killer for each 4 man SWF to create perfect balanced matches.
It will also make you a peanut butter and jelly sandwich if you are feeling a bit blue. The future is almost here, any minute now.
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@MrPenguin said:
Can we get clarification on 1-3, I don't understand, do we just allow the flashlight save?
Shouldn't we also add Dark clothes Claudette, Adam, and dark clothes in general to the second list? That's just hiding in plain sight.
No T-bagging, pointing at, or waving at the killer after dropping a pallet or vaulting a window. No Wraith Bell spam.
No staying at/near the gates, survivors must leave as soon as able.
No 99% the gates.
No stacking slowdown perks (if any slowdown perks at all). Forever games and red bars are not fun. In fairness to this rule no stacking speed up perks on the survivor side.
No item stacking. Additionally only a max of 2 survivors can bring in items in fairness to the no Franklin's rule. No chest perks allowed to try and circumvent this rule.
3) They brought the flashlight and followed you while the other survivor was being chased. You aren't allowed to mechanically prevent them from doing what their sole mission for having a flashlight is... he will run out of batteries eventually or mess up the timing anyway.
Just 5 minutes before you post added the things about dark clothes and T-bagging (The emotes were considered taunting in another rule).
Killer 16) You may never fake or spam the initial use of your power whether to bait the survivor into trying to dodge OR getting zoned away from safety. This includes but is not limited to Wraith's Bell, Deathslinger's Scope, Doctor's Shock Animation, Demogorgon's Killer Instinct before a Shred. (Credits to MrPenguin)
Killer 17) At most you will use a single slowdown perk or addon as any more in combination creates a "Forever' game and seeing red bars falls into the "not fun" category. (Credits to MrPenguin)
Survivor 16) No 99%ing the gates to play around Blood Warden. You may not stay at or near the gates/hatch as leave as soon as possible if you are already planning to leave. Waiting for the killer to show up to get or give additional bloodpoints is highly offensive. (Credits to MrPenguin)
Survivor 17) No item stacking - an additional max of only 2 of the 4 survivors may bring in unique items meaning no double med kit or double toolboxes. The other two survivors must unequip their items if they already see two survivors with items on load in as it's first come first serve when you are playing solo queue. Being late to the lobby means you have no rights to bring in an item. (Credits to MrPenguin)
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@PyroGL said:
Create a Killer perk that changes the exit switch to activate the OTHER gate, and visa versa.
The exit gates should regress naturally down to 25%/50%/75% as noted by the lights on the gate. It would no longer be possible to "fully" prep the gate just to avoid Blood Warden. There could also be a buff to Remember Me or Blood Warden directly that allows the gate regression to go all the way down to 0% instead of being stopped at each of the "checkpoints".
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@IIITweedleIII said:
Well, you know what they say: Rules were made to be Broken.
(Especially when it comes to Mori.
Don't take away what a Killer is. Killer has got to Kill.)
@Eninya said:
Moris are for bad players. Instant win condition consumables like those and many Very Rare/Ultra Rare addons should be reworked or removed. The game isn't fun when you load in knowing you've won/lost because the challenge is circumvented. This includes Purple/Red keys.
I greatly, greatly avoid tunneling because of how much it sucks to be on the receiving end. It's the absolute last resort to getting a 3-4K.
In the interest of fairness I added 3 more to the survivor rulebook
"13) Attempting to unhook yourself (Especially since Deliverance is a crime) is fine, but successfully unhooking yourself with that 4%+ Luck offerings is not. If you do manage to unhook yourself - you must crouch and wait there under hook until the killer returns to place you back onto the same hook.
14) Tapping the crouch button more than once especially after a successful pallet stun is grounds for immediate ban from the game. This is called Teabagging and can ONLY be used with other survivors when not in direct line of sight of the killer as a way to mime words or crude sign language (Learning Morse Code may be advised). Waiting at the gate or above an open hatch while spamming crouch repeatedly will have you, the survivor, drawn and quartered in the town square.
15) Wearing any of the darker cosmetics especially on the "dark"er skinned survivors like Claudette Morel, Adam Francis or Detective David Tapp is abusing the killers. You must immediately equip the brightest default costumes or highlighter bright options you have bought or risk being removed from the game permanently."
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@Heartbound said:
I love it, good on ya lad.
Survivor 3 and 13 look a wee bit similar though. Must be my imagination.
Lol fixed - I think I copied instead of cut+pasted
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@AChaoticKiller said:
buff his reloading and give him a secondary ability.
for a secondary ability i was actually thinking of him being able to target a gen and have it start giving off fumes(like freddy's gen TP) which prevents the survivors from working on it and gives away their position. it would last like 15 seconds and have a cooldown of 40 which starts as soon as it's used. also this isn't like the entity blocking the gen the killer and killer related perks like ruin and pgtw would still work on the gen.
edit: the fumes would work exactly like the regular gas from his bottles. for an animation it would be him pressing a button on a small remote device that would take a second with no movement speed debuff. I'd like to think of it as him having the gens trapped or rigged before the trial started.
I actually like this idea - targetting a far off gen to release gas to make them scream (location reveal bubble), stop if not slow that gen progress completely for a few seconds while he slowly walks across the map, giving him enough time to Pop the gen as long as he is away that survivors are focusing a single gen instead of spreading pressure.
Would make a bit more sense than giving old Ken Jeff Chase Hawk teleporting powers like the demon IT since he's supposed to be a perverse human serial killer who collects trophies.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
i think they should switch thrill's effect of making totems take longer to break with undying's aura reading. it would match both perks better anyway since thrill of the hunt would be for info and undying would be for keeping totems alive plus it would allow you to know if theres a remaining totem for a hex to transfer to.
I've advocated for this idea in another thread because each dull or hex totem that breaks reduces the cleanse speed debuff by another token - meaning an attentive survivor could tell about how many totems are left from each one cleansed since Undying requires more totems to be destroyed in theory that ToTH. Also the noise explosion when cleansing "Begins" is far more fair to deal with considering it also has a maximum range on larger maps so a Blight or Hillbilly with the "move fast" addons wouldn't have a chance to stop the cleanse if they are too far away (nor even be notified that a survivor is nearby).
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Ultimately the survivors who play like this also enjoy "Prop Hunt" on garry's mod or other games where just pretending to be an inanimate object without getting shot is the point of it. Watching the killer go walking by while holding their breath etc etc.
Not progressing ANY objectives for that long could be considered a reportable offense of holding the game hostage by the dev's own definition of it if you recorded it and made sure to do an ingame report as well. Otherwise they're probably getting a kick out of frustrating you if they are forum lurkers - giving each other high fives and all that.
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@MaxDax said:
Imagine being a Monteros killer (Oni) and you get stunned by some wooden thing. Or a survivor just spins around like a ######### merry-go-round. This is stupid. The game developers need to make this impossible. Or at least make it so the attack will automatically aim on the survivor.
Auto aim is built into the game albeit it hurts you more than helps a lot of the time. I take it you're a console player though?
Anyways pallet stuns have been a part of the game's core design forever - vacuum stuns have been removed and there are a lot of options for instant breaking pallets (trying using your Oni bat on it during blood fury). As for the 360's being hard to hit, take your time with your swings and even backstep - it'll help a lot for confirming hits. Now if you are having low fps ontop of playing against PC survivors who actually know how to 360 properly then whelp....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3BFyYpa2Vg&ab_channel=xFingolfin -
Watch this video by Michi, the best European hag player if not the best hag streamer I've seen and go from there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX5AGQiNKg0&ab_channel=Michi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX5AGQiNKg0&ab_channel=MichiStart with using lots of "Distance" traps that aren't RIGHT ontop of pallets and vaults but like a full meter away. You can just instant teleport swing at to stack hits in a lot of cases and not be worried about smacking a pallet then being stunned because you didn't bodyblock it properly. It also makes looping much harder for them even when you don'tt perfectly align your traps if you stick plop a spaced trap down mid chase at a loop - especially in the middle of a L-wall/T wall window tile for example. They're the easiest to use and least reliant on perfect latency. Camera Snap traps are huge especially when you are actually forced to chase as a 110% killer, make sure you're starting to note in your head when Instant Teleport Swings aren't the answer and to wait on your teleport if you have basically forced the survivor back into you.
Being an aggressive hag is harder but far more rewarding once you get to that point on a lot of maps - some maps are still too damn big to do much more than pick a 3 gen and sit on your web though... that's just gonna take a few games to realize though
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I've found it has a 14.36%~16% usage rate at Red Ranks over now 450 games (1800 survivors, over 7150 tracked perks) meaning I was usually seeing at least one Prove Thyself every other game. (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/194632/the-latest-survivor-meta-snapshot-with-excel-data/p1?new=1)
At the level where both sides are "trying" to win as often as possible - it's pretty natural to see a powerful meta perk and the only one that actively speeds up the main objective directly, it leads to less interaction with the killer in exchange for doing your job of power gens and escaping better.
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What...? Is this some sort of unknown alpha gameplay mechanic from even before Swivel Hooks because it's still 3 hooks and always was. Being struggle phase on 2nd hook and dead on 3rd hook is the current system as always with no current plans to be changed to my knowledge
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There's a post about this a mere two posts below this one in General Discussion
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/195830/doors-stop-the-stupid-poopoo#latest
And how is this an unpopular opinion...? It even goes against the Entity's lore reason to "always" give the survivor up all the way until the moment where they are being dragged into the sky by the spider god
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The only thing I could find on the upcoming rift cosmetics - if you got some additional sneak peek at the upcoming rift then please share as I'm curious what you saw beyond this that set you off
The community contest winner Legion skin predicted for something like October 21st?
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@OldHunterLight said:
I was playing a few days ago against a doctor, There was a Claudette with an unusual build, self care, botany knowledge, auto didact and resilience, with a green first aid.
doctor hit her and she healed faster than the weapon cooldown, she did it 3 times and as far as I know autodidact doesn't work for yourself, just for others.
I did a small test with my brother except without autodidact (nowhere to get them skill checks if it's only 2 of us and 1 has to be the killer) ran the same build except autodidact but ran spine chill.
Couldn't heal as fast, can anyone confirm what was that?.
I think I recorded a vid, I have to check.
Autodidact completely doesn't work with Med-kits either by design. Post the video if possible but to my knowledge this was specifically addressed with We'll Make It 300% stipulation being blocked for a reason... and should be a hack if they're trying to actively mask it like this.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657905#Comment_1657905
"Struggle phase rework to prevent instant suiciding couldn't come any faster." people suidiciding on hook is not because they don't like struggling. I like that I have to pay attention to the screen when i'm in second stage, it adds to me enjoying the game. I am not the only one that likes this. but changing that would make it boring to even be on the hook, even i'd want a 1st hook mori with that.
How engaging is tapping spacebar (or a button) while moving your camera around to see what's going on from the auras exactly?
A struggle phase rework could be something as simple as having skill checks at set minimum intervals so you have the "option" of dying faster but not the nearly instant 3 attempts to unhook oneself then letting go for the spider god to take you in 5 seconds. Combine this with a penalty for disconnecting through ingame means or that task manager/alt+f4 and people would actually play the matches they queued for rather than wasting 4 people's time because their selfish desire to have a game completely on their terms wasn't met through the matchmaking gods.
I usually play hundreds of solo-queue survivor games with a very relaxed mindset and watch youtube videos at full volume while on gens or on hook because the amount of downtime in the game as survivors already... one of the reasons I don't even agree with even more gen slowdown as the single solution to all the killer woes even if I very rarely run into a 4 tool box BNP SWF with a hard on for gen rushing out the door within 5 mins. Matchmaking needs to be addressed (they've said they're working on it) but people unwilling to play a game together and abandoning constantly has to be curbed as well.
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@ClickyClicky said:
It sounds like your issue is with the ranking more than anything else. Red ranks have been full of potatoes for a while now. You get the people that are new to the game but play a lot, maybe 150 hours but still make plenty of bad decisions and don’t have a meta lodout and then you have the teams of 6000 hour god loopers. All of them within a few ranks of each other.
MMR would be the solution if they can get it working.
It's a bit idealistic that a perfect matchmaking solution that can and will account for the numerous amount of discrepancies of people who can perform at a "base" level with their friends with info share just get thrashed by any competent killer. Even the absolute top players will see hits to their consistency and decision making if devoid of that extra information, it's just that they are currently balancing against the mindset that these players don't exist and that every survivor is playing completely like a solo queue survivor that creates a lot of frustrations across killers who haven't adapted to keeping track of timers to help them pressure stronger survivor teams into occasional losses... because that disparity is not required for a majority of their games whether it be against competent solos or pepegas due to matchmaking.
The scales will always feel unbalanced when you give half of one side very dark glasses and ear plugs and pretend the people playing without those restrictions don't exist. This goes beyond the asymmetric nature of a 4v1 with different objectives.
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@BeaChebbo said:
Can there be a message system so you can properly communicate with your crossplay friends? Ik on PC you can already chat but you can't do that with your friends that aren't on PC. Cross friends is kind of awkward like this yk :(
If you're talking about communication during a match that PC players use things like Discord to accomplish then "https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/195648/this-issue-needs-to-be-addressed-before-top-down-balancing-can-take-place/p1?new=1" is a post I made related to it - probably could use a bump on why it's necessary for balancing the game more fairly.
If you're just talking about post-game chat between players to congratulate the Killer for a game wp'd or vice versa... then I think they said it was coming but surprisingly enough there are some players who don't even want to bother anyway due to potential saltiness and toxicity
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@MegHasCuteFeet said:
Mods don't have anything to do with development.
The "devs" on the forums have nothing to do with the actual balanceteam.
Your voice will not be heard.
Funny how he posted in these very forums more than 4~5 times in the last week though. Now whether he implements your suggestions or is interested enough to respond to every single concern or discussion that comes up is another matter.
Also whether he bothers to respond since he is probably limited by policies from higher ups and probably limits the transparency the playerbase is allowed on everything they are actively working on. There's also a fact that he gets attacked by a dozen+ people for anything he says because apparently to them he isn't a human being worthy of a modicum of respect if their views on game balance runs in contention to what he and his co-workers on the live balance team think.
I don't personally agree with a lot of his balance opinions either or even his commentary/gameplay decisions when watching his twitch stream channel but I feel for the guy having to deal with the attitude he gets whenever that red "Dev" tag is added to any post
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Sometimes Myers just wants to be friends with Nea, Meg and Dwight.
Taken from 4Gamers youtube channel
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It's actually kind of funny that the old advice of "go to the opposite corner" of the map doesn't apply anymore as you should just check adjacent spawn locations especially on Azarov's Resting Place (Autohaven Wreckers) because usually 1~2 person spawns just a step outside of your terror radius while the other are across the map
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They're definitely a bit strong if they're bringing in purple/pink addons or green/purple medkits for more than 1 full self-heal. It's a steeper uphill battle for the killer than normal against competent survivors - it's fairly ridiculous how much smoother even my solo-queue surv experiences improve by just bringing a brown medkit into every match. The issue is still that in most solo queue pepega hands it doesn't cover their shortcoming enough as they burn through half their medkit then get downed while being 3/4's healed.
Killer buffs and further survivor nerfs currently are centered around those solo queue survivors who can't communicate or easily meetup even with Bond or share "The killer has Nurse's Calling". It's a strange decision by the balance/design team to ignore that people can play with friends by the necessity of keeping a sizeable playerbase but actively hoping solo queue survivors not performing "optimally" is what they need to balance the game around.
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@timbologna said:
I come from a background in CSGO so please bear that in mind. If it weren't plagued by hackers it'd be a wonderfully balanced game. I merely suggest this for a competitive matchmaking in DBD:
(Both Survivor and Killer)
No perks/Add Ons
No Items or offerings brought into the match
Items can still be found in chests.
This on paper would decrease the variety of things that need to be balanced and make it more bare bones. I dare say solo only as SWF brings inherent advantages that would disadvantage solo players who queued with them. This would very much so make the competitive experience feel more balanced in my outsider opinion and killer powers could be independently balanced in this matchmaking variation so that no killer overpowers any groups and survival rates are more in line with developer expectations.
At the beginning there was a lot less "content" in the game like all these pesky perks and new killer powers, realms/maps, etc. There wasn't even survive with friends at the start - but the addition of that honestly vitalized this game and being forced into complete solo only interactions would turn off a huge portion of the playerbase. Which in turn might start that "doomsday slippery slope" towards longer queue times and an active player base where even completely solo players like me just give up on the game (like all the other assymetrical horror games that came after DbD's success and faded away including BHVR's own Deathgarden).
It's a nuclear thought but one that is just short of rewriting the game from scratch to fix all the spaghetti code and engine issues - reoptimizing it for consoles and even pcs given the number of performance bugs that come up every time any change is made including "graphically" reworking the maps, objects and doodads. If they're going to wipe the slate - I would rather they go the full mile rather than half-measures as it would do more for every feature overall.
Unfortunately, both options are most likely not financially feasible nor even warranted given they must still be turning a profit and aren't quite at the blatant unapologetic milking of the populace without ANY support at all (I've seen plenty of development teams go that rout with other games too especially in this saturated market).
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@Triforcer said:
I say this as a person who plays 100% killer, all the time (mainly Bubba).
I'm not a great killer. Before this combo I was using pop + corrupt on Bubba, and I would get destroyed by red ranks (0-1K), average a 2K on purple ranks, and do 3-4K on green and above.
With Ruin + Undying, I utterly annihilate purple ranks (green and above are usually lucky to finish 1-2 generators) and am doing much better on reds (I've even gotten a 4K on rank 3-4 types, but 1-2 are still difficult).
Even compared to the other meta setup (pop and corrupt), this is a completely new ballgame. The last game I decided to tunnel a looper that annoyed me. 2 BTs, 1 DS, 2 Deadhards, and about 4 minutes later, I killed them- but gens only went from 4 to 3.
This is so utterly powerful I was surprised it wasn't hotfixed now, or in the mid-chapter update at least. I predict both of the following nerfs:
(a) The aura reading goes away entirely, and
(b) if undying goes down, re-lit totems are extinguished as well.
As a killer, I could live with both of that and honestly I'd probably still run it.
A) is probably the only part of the perk that is arguably powerful enough for a nerf - 6s aura reveal every time someone gets within 2m of a totem as long as the hex is up is a lot of random information - even more than just revealing them if they started cleansing for 6s. It's not going to save you from every situation but its a perk that does more than other comparable perks making it almost negate it's downside of being a breakable Hex as long as you are attentive and a bit lucky.
B) Extinguishing all re-lit/transferred totems when it breaks would relegate it back into seeing limited to almost no use since it already has anti-synergy with Hex: Devour Hope and Hex: Huntress's Lullby due to the stacks being reset. It's a strong combo but I've actually been enjoying having more objectives to play for even while playing solo queue survivor and bringing more anti-totem perks that saw less value before.
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@Jyn_Mojito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657893#Comment_1657893
I dunno, I'm still here thinking about @SpaceCoconut 's example and how it perfectly encompasses that feeling. To play off that example, you're basically indifferent to ice cream, so you're not invested in it.
But for those of us who DO want the ice cream (the Rift Tiers), we do feel a sense of disappointment- that despite running as fast and as hard as we could, we just didn't make it. It feels like wasted effort.
Just flex on all the plebs sweating trying to chase down the ice cream truck by following it to it's next stop in your sportscar. Only the ice cream man is nice enough to give you a discount now for going to the "trouble" following him and because he recognizes that you waited in line previously instead of just going to another ice cream parlor (maybe another game that doesn't have microtransactions) but missing that "Spongbob character popsicle" (cosmetic) or another ice cream truck (a game that also has a battle pass just like this one).
@twistedmonkey's tone may have been more belittling than necessary but that doesn't make the argument wrong because someone would feel offended by it.
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It's probably a protest of "this killer is boring to face" but it's not just Legion...
The sound of a phase walk, the rev of a chainsaw (Billy or Bubba), the screech of a distant blink, The Huntresses's 40m humming, the sight of them slowly falling asleep at the bottom left. Heck even the "ding ding ding" of Wraith's dinner bell can illicit the same result currently...
It not restricted to survivors either. Killers have unplugged on load in against 0 items, 0 offerings even in red ranks on me because they randomly rolled into Ormond or Haddonfield just to return in post-game lobby about "the broken game" that they're "forced" to play. Perhaps there is a terrorist organization holding AK47s to a select population to force them to continue queueing up to waste 4 other people's time.
A non abuseable DC penalty + Struggle phase rework to prevent instant suiciding couldn't come any faster.
Of course from how some forum users make it sound there should be Kotaku articles about BHVR's activated terrorist cells moving out to implement their nefarious plans of forcing people to play a game they don't enjoy if DC penalties return without exploits to ban people for 72 + hours.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
I don't think it's effective because the DS stun is 5 seconds. Even if the survivor is slowed by 15-20%. 5 seconds gives too much distance. Also for some reason, gas cannot go through windows, so if a survivor vaults a window, they can quickly escape the gas.
@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657340#Comment_1657340
This.
The slowdown is so minor compared to the stun time that it barely shaves of distance the survivor makes when using their DS.
It's not a fullproof counter in most cases but if you're planning to eat the DS anyway I don't see why you would't do it. Slugging to avoid it to keep momentum is better in most cases even if they have unbreakable but there are times early in the match where just eating the DS is perfectly fine depending on where they are and where their teammates are.
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@NekoGamerX said:
the doors shouldn't do that.
And yet they do... it's a "well if you don't have a key then I guess your dead" moment looking at it from the killer side with 2 mins of EDC left after you slammed the hatch.
As a survivor - I dig through whatever chests are left for some RNGesus key rng but then it's just pick a door and get whatever BP I can get from it before I die.
It's rough when it's not a power like Whispers or a Trapper setting a beartrap down infront of the switch (which could be considered op) but just pure visibility and proximity to each other that any 110% killer can stop you as soon as you show up at either.
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@PyroGL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657809#Comment_1657809
I do not own all the cosmetics in the game by a long shot, however I DO own all the ones that have been given out as challenges such as David's Donkey Jacket, Huntress' Hound Mask, etc. Again, the limited time event is not really a problem, it's the duration of the Rift, frequency of the Rift and the intensity (grind) all combined that is making the Rift extremely unfun for me.
Another thing that I tried to point out in my original post is, participation in the Rift is NOT optional. Regardless about your attitude or willingness to play the Rift, you WILL participate in it, and you WILL get notifications about it ad nauseum. This is intentional to trigger an emotional response to continue participating and therefore investing in the Rift. The time you spend playing = time investing. Constantly moving the goalposts (the end of the Rift) by manipulating the number of fragments you earn is a clear sign that too many people were completing the Rift, and therefore they made it harder. To be fair, it isn't a bad thing that BHVR is trying to get you to play their game, so at some level we are all manipulated into playing DBD. The issue, as I see it, is that it becomes a chore to participate in, and that the Rifts are too long/frequent/intense.
Lastly, purchasing Rift tiers is essentially paying to win. At that point, why even bother playing at all? Could I afford paying for the whole Rift, sure. Is that a good use of my money? I'd argue, no, it rewards BHVR for what is a manipulative and borderline predatory game mechanic.
Please explain how cosmetics (outside of blending dark ones), belt and hook charm cosmetics is helping you "win" the game or specifically any gameplay interaction?
The closest thing to "pay to win" in DbD is the existence of Licensed Killer/Survivor perks that are time locked from F2P players through Shrine, as that has direct gameplay implications (Would be more willing to be critical around those mechanics). Heck even arguing that the bloodpoint grind to access each teachable and have them available on all killers or any one survivor would be a valid complaint in my eyes.
The cosmetics are very low monetary "cost" in exchange for the number of cosmetics you would get compared to buying specific ones directly. Time is Money is the common concept that comes up around Pay 2 Win - but the grind here is for "cosmetics" specifically not for reaching a specific end goal of a gameplay build.
You obviously enjoy playing the game - and even go about to finish all the tome challenges but feel that the last 50~300 game push is too high of a grind... I understand your feelings but you've already significantly reduced the price of finishing the rift by buying those levels of cosmetics (by inherent design of battlepasses) by playing the game up to that point. It's not time wasted no matter how you spin it because you're still recreationally playing the game naturally not under gunpoint...
"Being forced" to see those rift notifications and participate in the rift "is not" a bad thing. A lot of players actively forget to set their next challenge even with those notifications, missing out on potential bloodpoint/time value if they aren't planning to 100% each tome anyway. If all you are asking for were to be able to turn off the notification that covers your text box at the end of each game then I wouldn't even respond to that QoL suggestion (but that's not your topic's main concern even though you brought it up twice now).
"But I shouldn't have to play any further nor should another rift come up if I want to take a break from the game for a significant amount of time (more than the current time inbetween rifts)." While that's already a subjective amount of time as it is - it's the same as overworrying about not logging on at a minimum of every 3 days to finish dailies. These things can be viewed as a bonuses as intended, not a chores... it's your perception that does it.
You also admitted that you're not going out of your way to "buy" every single cosmetic available either because obviously throwing those up on an ad when you load up the game is "predatory" as well, but not being able to receive a charm or final cosmetic is a "must" now without shelling out a few dollars worth of auric (significantly less than not playing at all and just buying the entire rift pass.. but who plays cosmetics for games they don't even play?). I'm still trying to point out to you and other players who complain about the rift grind that it has NO direct implications on your gameplay, if anything it helps your bloodpoint grind significantly just by participating.
Buying that first pass (maybe even this one) was a value preposition you "decided" to subscribe to, more transparency on the numbers would be "ballpark estimates" by each player anyway much like the projections players go out and do since the information IS available even before your purchase if you wish to crunch them.
Edit: I don't see how having MORE time where there are less active players in a game where you NEED those active players to form matches is any healthier for longevity and keeping the game alive. Personal mental and physical health isn't and should not be on the onus of the gaming company but something you have to police yourself and step away from video gaming if it is negatively impacting you. If you are living a healthy and working lifestyle - you just play to have fun and "choose" to drop money on additional cosmetics like any other microtransaction in this game (whether microtransactions are predatory isn't even the argument here). The rift COMPLETION is fully optional whether you were "forced" to participate in it or not and earn some free bloodpoints.
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@Arctus said:
Loaded into a match with Devour Hope for the quest and looked around to see my totem to no avail. I got a pretty early chase and ended it fast. After hooking the dude I also noticed that my devour didn't lite up after I left him and went away. No loud noise notification or nothing the entire game either. And devour never lit up. Anyone else experience something like this?
I've had a similar issue but you got the short end of the stick where your uncleansable hex didn't spawn on the playing field at all. I've had a completely obscured Devour Hope before that got to 4 stacks and was exposing people but there was no cleansable totem for it at all - any chance you remember what map this was on? Because it might be a bugged spawn location or two.
Edit: Mine happened weeks ago on Mac estate - Groaning Storehouse though I can't find my screenshots for it anymore
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@PyroGL said:
I know there have been many threads with feedback regarding the Rift, but I feel like I need to express my own concerns about the Rift and my future with DBD. To put it simply, the current system of near constant Rifts being active is making me want to quit playing DBD altogether. I have completed each of the first 3 Rifts with 1-2 weeks of time remaining. In each case, I completed the Archives and landed at about Tier 65-67, and was able to grind out the rest of the tiers, but it left me exhausted from playing DBD. After reaching Tier 70 in all previous Rifts, I ended up taking breaks from the game and did not play until the next Rift started (which ends up being a few weeks).
This latest Rift, however, is pushing me over the edge. Despite playing a similar number of hours and keeping the similar playing patterns (usually getting at least the 2 games min per day, and more when time is available), I have completed the Archives, got to Tier 61, and have a week to grind out 9 tiers if I want to complete the Rift. Mathematically, it would take about 20 hours in game to achieve this. This does not count for queue times, loading times, BP spending, and max XP efficiency (i.e. getting out of the game right at the 10 min mark when xp gain/second stops). I do not think this is feasible to accomplish this in a week without ridiculous sacrifices, but it is obviously my choice whether to attempt it or not. What bothers me most, though is that I'm put in this position at all.
As a big fan of DBD, I've played about 1,350 hrs over the past 4 years, and never have I felt more irritated and annoyed about the game. I've participated in all the in-game events DBD has offered, including the crazy community challenges from year 1, and completed them all. I'm perfectly willing to do limited time events, but not ones that are 70 days long and restart a few weeks later. Because of the daily nagging to play (to get the bonus XP for Survivor and Killer), DBD has become more of a chore that I feel demands far too much attention, and consequently drains my willingness to play.
Obviously to some extent this is a self-inflicted wound. Sure, I should just "not care" about the Rift, but the Rift is designed to MAKE you participate in it. Regardless of what you do, the challenge widget pops up after every game and reminds you and gnaws at you that the Rift is going and you have challenges to do/prizes to claim. Again, this is fine for shorter events that last a week or two, but the Rift has become something that I frankly hate and despise. So much so that I am going to be more annoyed and pissed off that I got so far in the current Rift and didn't quite reach the goal; which feels like my time was wasted, which ultimately makes me not want to play at all. This endless cycle of Rifts is unsustainable (for me), and I really hate it.
Please... for those at BHVR that have any empathy for people's time, stop doing Rifts to often, and stop making them harder to complete (yes the community has done the math, we know you did this on purpose).
@malatruse said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657663#Comment_1657663
I mean....I don't have to play the game at all. I play because it's fun. I liked doing the rifts because they were fun.
Plus, though I personally don't spend AC up front, I'm sure a lot of people do, and feel obligated to finish it for that reason.
@Orion has a good point that you don't have to do the rifts... they even specifically give you an option "not" to do them just like every other battlepass. If your need for "completing" everything is causing stress then I gotta wonder do you also own every other "cosmetic" in this game (Whether you like their look or not)?
Edit: The battlepass system is directly designed to increase games played by people "grinding" and "no-lifing" the game rather than going to something else and why it was so wildly popular in Fortnite and emulated by other companies. A fully multiplayer game that "requires" a reasonably active playerbase for queue times is only helped by this, especially since the cells allow renewal to keep those time-dedicated "value seeking" players. If you are shelling out cash to buy every cosmetic like the whale that microtransactions already target anyway - then buying a few rift levels shouldn't be hurting your disposable incoming any further than just buying every new cosmetic anyway
You can play normally as much as you think is fun and then buy the rest of the rift levels to complete the rift and even get "some of that auric cell" value back for getting the rest of the cosmetics. The grind is completely optional just like the cosmetics that come with it... it has basically no actual gameplay implications to finish the rift each time... the challenges are free bloodpoints and goals (albeit stupid goals at times) to help keep interest and reduce the sheer tedium, not making it worse.
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@MrDardon said:
Hello People of the Fog!
Has someone else noticed an extreme Rise in Object users?
I mean, before I rarely saw Object and now I played 5 Matches of Killer with 4 Matches including at least 1 Object. In one there were even 2.
Does someone else get this extremely fun experience?
I really hope this Perk will be changed VERY soon, it gets really annoying. I'd rather face 1000 DS's than 1 Object.
I pretty much banned this Perk out of my Loadouts because I know how unfun it is to vs.
If it keeps happening, you'll see one less Killer for now because I won't play against bs like that.
You probably just entered that magical sweet spot where you're encountering the SWFs running it... or you're just dealing with random people messing around because it's not nearly that strong without info share to the other 3 survivors.
I've had a pretty high encounter rate with OoO for awhile since Descend Beyond's drop and I'm now over 330 games with the same stuff for the main part if I'm on killer
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Still play against and as Hillbilly on occasion... the immediate post patch where overheating literally never happened made the change pointless then the subsequent nerf to make it overheat if you're using your power to patrol gens then immediately getting into chases has made him "less" fun to play than before but not underpowered at all considering he's still an insta-down killer. Still chaining multiple saws off Infectious fright or at least forcing pallet drops before returning to pick people up
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657718#Comment_1657718
It's definitely the fastest way to get me to leave you on the hook. I'm not interfering with your suicide attempt.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1657719#Comment_1657719
Except they're just ######### themselves over because they get pushed to death hook.
They're trying to cuck the rescuer for laughs or genuinely don't care about winning, bloodpoints or pipping (maybe even wanting to depip). It's the same reason the DC and suicide on hook counts are prevalent enough that there are more games with one rather than not whether you're a solo queue survivor or a killer (Obviously a little less reason for 4 man SWFs to suicide or try to unhook themselves with deliverance).
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@TN_Chris said:
This was an idea for solo queue I had several days ago. Could be one of those deals where it sounds better in your head but, I'll share anyway...
I pretty much always play by myself and agree it can get pretty frustrating. This is just a thought, and it's probably already been mentioned before, but what about a pre-made, in-game command system (no voice, just text). Something that you see on a lot of first-person shooters? Maybe have 3-5 (or however many), quick, easy to toggle command options. Maybe #1 says "Complete the objectives!", #2 says "I need healing", #3 says "Power exit gates!", etc. For instance, depending on the command a slugged player selected, you'd know whether or not they have unbreakable/adrenaline and don't need healing. A small text with the players name, would let you know which player(s) sent which command.
The pic below is just something that I quickly found on google, but with a pretty similar concept. Does anyone think something like this could help solo survivors...or is this a dumb idea?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XFQ9VNM1AR9Q/bf2142-cr.png
And I'm not the first one to talk about similar text wheels that are used in other Assymetrical Horror games that copied from DbD. The reasons for not doing it still baffle me because it's been brought up for years
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Playing killer is easier than ever because it was downright broken the amount of "bullying" killers used to have to deal with in older iterations of the game. Old man waving his cane yelling, "Back in my day, windows didn't have a 3x per chase limit, Sabotage broke hooks forever, Infinites were everywhere, Exhaustion used to return while you were sprinting around looping, Balanced Landing could be run "alongside" Dead Hard due to secondary effects, etc etc)
I'll only agree with @azame (because he is definitely a bit biased to one side as well) to the point that riskier and more interactive gameplay elements are "less" rewarding now especially if you're working off the incomplete info of a solo player. Why not just power gens asap, play around Blood warden and Noed and leave if the object is to just "win" rather than have more multiplayer interactions. The current tentative balance doesn't apply to everyone on a side because it's a dynamic centered around the masses or more specifically the "average" solo queue player without any outside communication rather than top players who can play optimally AND have another third party advantage that cannot be blocked completely for more than one reason.
My current hill I'm waiting to die on is buffing these solo queue survivors to be on a similar level before continuing to bandaid the game while admitting that 3rd party voice chat SWFs are a thing but choosing not to address it by the only logical way that it won't kill the game. You can't expect any meaningful buffs to killers if you aren't using the "baseline assumption" that survivors have a minimum communication level across the board.
If you don't want a competitive game and this game to be forced to be "casual" then survivors should bumble around like Fall-guys and the killer should flail about like Octodad... but people are obviously sticking with this game because it has that "magic" of good controls and mechanics in a lot of areas.
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@mint said:
I completed almost every single challenge and I'm still like 7 tiers away from 70. WTH. I don't remember it being this hard in the past tomes? Kinda sucks. IT closes in like 5 days
The "rift" grind has more or less been the same - it really depends on how many games people are finishing each challenge at too since people who have gotten better at finishing every challenge in a single game is also going to be "playing" less total time. I never really considered it a grind since the "rift" rewards are intentionally made in a way for people to no life the game for "cosmetics" - it's the entire premise of the Fortnite Battlepass system that tons of games have adopted. The auric cell "refund" is still there - the option has always been to "buy" the final few levels if you run out of time for those who have disposable income but not the time to play out the battlepass.
The Rift gives ZERO direct gameplay benefit and should be thought of as buying cosmetics from the store with conditions that you also have to play X amount of time. That time being "longer" is a non-issue in encouraging pure cosmetics/charms while keeping the playerbase playing more matches to prevent a "ghost town" downward slope.
I haven't seen it in this thread specifically (yet) but once again to people who think the Rift is a Pay-to-Win model that punishes players for not "no-lifing" the game need to think about an actual example of a pay-to-win situation such as all Licensed Perk teachables beinig completely removed from the Shrine because those actually directly influence gameplay options. This is still one of the more friendly Battlepass systems compared to something like Valorant which doesn't even give you the "free renew" option for completing an even more time consuming pass for $13 each time.
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I can think of at least 5~6 other ones that I've tried with relative levels of polish. None have as big of a playerbase as DbD nor the longevity... some have somethings that work a lot better like ingame communication (even if its simple preset macros that automatically go off - like telling your teammates the Killer is tracking you "dbd's equivalent of a chase") while having basically no "chase or looping" mechanics mostly just jiggle juking and hiding as best as possible while doing objectives like some sort of Prop Hunt type game.
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I audibly "Meh" and move on to the next match because it's the norm now. I keep wondering what perfect condition of circumstances a survivor/killer wants out of this fully multiplayer game.
I go against killers who clearly downed 1~2 people (meaning there are weak loopers they could go for) already then start getting looped for 5 minutes and everyone is fully healed and it's down to 1 generator left... better unplug if that person looks like he might walk out the now open exit gates even though the match will end in a few seconds anyway rewarding even him some bloodpoints for playing the match. I just imagine "angry" red faced folks I've seen game like that before - just overwhelmed with emotions and throwing their controllers at the wall in frustration.
Sometimes I understand the survivors pain whenever I play Hillbilly and crossmap chainsaw a guy in 10 seconds - Infectious fright into a 2nd chainsaw in 15 seconds and return to the first guy and M1 a 3rd person before picking up the first guy... that's probably an unrecoverable snowball with 5 gens left given the apparent looping strength of the team. Then I come walking across the map with Pig and slap someone down in a more reasonable 30s and give him a party hat first - he goes poof on my shoulder leaving the other 3 players high and dry. I usually go into kill everyone as quickly as possible mode and give last guy hatch rather than waiting there while the remaining survivors "slowly" go through chests, hide in lockers and spam vaults then finally fondle some gens... usually better to give a few chases and work on that part of the game anyway.
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I made a complete post about why the top down balance needs to start at bridging the Solo Queue Survivors vs SWF gap before it makes any sense but so it won't completely derail this topic and because it's in the feedback section I'll just add a link here. The point still stands for this discussion though
@ZCerebrate said:
This is coming from over a thousand hours on both sides at R1 for years - exactly how little merit that brings is up to you as the reader to decide. I "have" played every killer, SWFs with discord, SWFs without voice with streamers, then solo queued a FAR greater majority of my games using aura perks like Bond or Kindred to "make due". I never run Moris, or bring a key into a match ever nor do I ever get emotional enough to face camp someone or bleed them out in spite.
Over the last 2 weeks, I've pretty much reached the point in killer matchmaking where I would rather have back to back matches against the sweatiest of 4 man SWFs running OoO and "smol pp" builds just because it becomes more of a coin flip or an uphill fight for me to secure a kill or two rather than a boring one sided 4K steamroll over and over and over again (or string of DCs/suicides). I also enjoyed games like Starcraft Ladder 1v1s and having to micromanage and track lots of things in my head (keeping map awareness) is a type of focus and stress that is engaging for me.
In fact, I think there is a less vocal undercurrent among killers who want these potato survivors to give better matches just not making SWFs more "unbearable" for them to play against personally BECAUSE they don't like feeling overwhelmed and having too many "suboptimal gamble" options that are your only real chance at winning (without other aids like Moris... a topic for another post on whether that is even winning in my opinion).
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"Top down balancing" is something that should be in DbD just like other games where a large pool of abilities, powers and items all have to interact with one another. Unfortunately the nature of this current game itself makes this suffocating impossible as there will be survivors feeling "too weak" while others killers also feel "powerless" in their role. Killers can't be buffed adequately because the solo survivors are actively denied that same vital ingame information that comes readily through 3rd party voice chat. Conversely you can't balance a game at the highest level "but" solo queue unless you're taking those absolute top players in the world and forcing them to play with zero voice comms in front of you in a controlled environment constantly against equally good killers and using those games purely as the reference point.
Of course a full list of what perks and killer powers need to be addressed to be made stronger afterwards but it would allow those subsequent conversation to make far more sense when it finally takes place.
It comes down to the different between Solo and SWF survivors and the ability to communicate with one another. It's impossible to balance for an organized competitive team on voice comms vs take those "same" insanely good team players and actively denying them information. They "should" perform well but not nearly at the same level and their teammates aren't immediately alerted to every little "risk" you might take as a killer to turn the tide in your favor. Since survivors by nature are reactionary in this game on the information they are gleaning throughout the match, if their information is too good then it compounds any amount of "individual" skill the survivors bring to the table by spliting the killer in too many different directions that the optimal play for the killer devolves into "Reduce those players by 1 ASAP so I have a fighting chance".
Now I'm not saying SWFs need to be nerfed, stuffed into yet another separate queue to split the community even more especially since most "SWF"s are just duos/trios playing with their wife, their sibling, their one or two buddies while casually talking about their workday, even a 4 man doesn't necessarily mean they are automatically skilled and won't give incomplete and bad information to one another constantly. Heck some aren't even on voice chat even if they party'd up as I've joined other "lonely" solo queuers who just want someone competent in the game with them and it's already reducing their chance of being trolled by teammates 25%. Why would BHVR want to hurt the customer base that is most likely keeping multiplayer "alive" by disallowing people from enjoying their game together... a HUGE part of online gaming. Also policing "3rd Party" voice software would be highly intrusive and basically impossible to block anyway - it's just not feasible even if they wanted to take that option away in todays world where it is readily available even by using Discord voice chat through your phones for example.
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Solo queue communication options that could be added to bridge the gap.
1) Ingame text chat or voice chat - with a glaring downside of sheer potential toxicity and the necessary options like muting that most people just default to "mute all" all the time anyway because they're "annoying" this isn't the ideal solution because the potential for abuse, spam and TOS violations to one another. It would also be harder for text to be conveyed and sent by console players so it would basically have to be voice.
2) Pre-written Text Wheel/Macros - Allowing you to choose a few favorites like "I'm going for the rescue!" "Please do the totem" "Killer is camping the hook" "Please do the closest generator" "Killer might be heading to" along with some way to make location pings appear in the chat by looking at it while pushing that macro. "Killer Shack", "Main building" "Northeast Tileset" etc. This one would take some work but it works in other DbD Clones that I've played and just limiting the spam time and 1 message at a time for the pre-determined messages stops much of the opportunity for toxicity and abuse. The "killer" or power role is also far more powerful because the "survivor side" basically has far less options other than to hide and pray like it's a Garry's Mod Prop Hunt though.
3) Status Icons over every survivor on what they are currently doing - this has the potential to be manipulated or misinformation more often but it'll be a start. "In a Chase" "On a generator" "In a locker" "On a totem" "Healing someone" "Self-caring" "Medkitting myself" etc would be a godsend in solo play - all information that a SWF would be able to share instantly but an attention solo queue player could make use of. With this being the least intrusive option - it would also have the least effect on bridging the balance gap.
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As far as I know Option #1 was completely denied on one of the developer interviews and other options at "solo queue" communication was tossed aside for ruining "immersion". If done tactfully on the UI with even a lore excuse like the Entity or Archivist providing this ability to instill more Hope in the survivors before crushing them further - options 2 & 3 could be added without ruining the "atmosphere" of the game.
Anyways - this got long winded and will most likely get buried so here is a potato for reading to this point
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XP848JH8OB1M/download.png
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Had about 8 games today where a single person hides out with a key in an attempt to key out alone - usually just keying out and getting the other 1~3 people killed because I closed the hatch on them immediately. As a survivor - I usually have to sacrifice the other guys to get a gate open which is not really my idea of a win... whatever happened to "Keys are OP because one key takes multiple survivors to victory!!!@!" :P
Selfishness is prevailing in the DC-ridden game atm