ZCerebrate
ZCerebrate
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I've tried it on killers like Wraith and it's not that bad once you're okay with having no chase perks like Bamboozle, Enduring or "god pallet breaking" Brutal Strength to help you out. It's unfortunately limited by having a more conditional Expose Perk than MYC or even DH and to be on a killer that M1s for a down due to Surge's basic attack requirement if you want full value from it so a full stacked slowdown build with okay momentum (And Myers+Ghostface already have their own expose mechanics so Dragon's grip has slightly less value)
Current surge holds it back a little bit with it's plethora of conditions like it doesn't apply at all to already regressing generators, basic attacks, doesn't actually count as a real explosion on the generator (3s pause in progression even forcing survivors to let go and activate Deadman's switch), has a limiting range on where you down someone AND a cooldown.
The first part is currently being addressed on the PTB 4.3 so you might see an increase in power as Surge will go up a bit as the regression will apply to already regressing generators from Ruin, Pop or normal kicked gens though.
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@Ryan489x said:
I said the doctor was too oppressive. His shock blast can hit you between floors, the madness messes with skill checks far too much not to mention can randomly point out where you are thanks to insanity. I know the reworked him a few times OG Doctor didn't have static blast and you had to choose between shocking and hitting you couldn't do both.
I'm not saying revert back to that, that might be a bit too far but he does need some stuff done. and no Just hide in a locker doesn't work if they have iron maiden
Old doctor also had the "fun" playstyle of staying in shocking mode so you just passively went into madness when combined with things distressing to keep people within their TR. Some no win 3 gens on maps like Gideon were happening quite a bit so they tried to give him a more interactive way to play... still very middle of the bunch.
Nothing wrong with your opinion, he can definitely be pretty annoying especially with both Iris addons. Stealth survivors and new survivors both have far more trouble with him until they realize he's still mostly loopable on anything but the weakest of loops and not zipping around the map either.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1655798#Comment_1655798
I just made a post about this though. It can be very oppressive as a solo player when every time an attempt to cleanse any totem causes the killer to be right on you before the cleansing can be finished. It’s gonna get worse if the Thana changes go live.
It's possible to mind game the killers from rushing straight at you by running past the hex you saw and pretending you're walking away for 6s. There is a significant cooldown on the same totem revealing again that isn't noted, it isn't a constant reveal. Coming back after a few seconds keeps you obscured for the entire time you are doing the hex as I have dealt with a ton of Undying/Ruin Blights this way as a solo queue survivor who has to break all 5 totems alone.
Now I would be perfectly fine with Hex: Undying's aura reveal being swapped with Hex: Thrill of the Hunt's noise explosion when it's being worked on nearby as one is definitely more powerful than the other and Thrill is specifically a hex aimed to protect other totems by reducing cleansing speed but getting weaker as more totems fall - it can also be cleansed first just like Undying negating it's protections. Undying already has a "high risk" totem respawning mechanic that can net you some insane value if they have to cleanse Ruin/Dull totems 4 times because Undying is either 4th or 5th., especially for solo queues who can't coordinate 2 hexes at once reliably.
I do "not" agree with outright removing any other benefit from Hex: Undying other than it's respawning mechanic as it's realistically making hexes more common - which I welcome rather than Q.Q. about since it's far more fun as a survivor to deal with secondary objectives as an option to weaken the killer.
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I honestly thought this was just me because I've had this happen to me twice on the PTB over maybe 20 matches (weaker connection to that server maybe?) and I was extremely confused why I heard the yell like you and was looking at the ground while the survivor started doing 360s in front of me thinking I was just taking my time to swing again. Luckily haven't encoutnered it in live servers yet at all.
Probably a latency thing since they "did" say that the killer will also have a disadvantage if they are the laggy one compared to the survivor but honestly that feedback is highly misleading and I would be pretty annoyed by it too (It's basically a bug not a feature to trick you even if latency is not registering the hit).
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Just some corrections to start:
Thrill of the Hunt has no aura reveal (this is a specific thing I'll get into for Undying) and creates a noise notification similar to a generator explosion, fast action on locker/window/pallet or even Discordance Perk proccing every 8~12 seconds. It can easily be lost in the confusion of other noise AND Peanits himself has stated that all loud noise notifications like these have a minimum and maximum range. The minimum range is so you hear the noise but there is no bubble polluting your screen (You'll see something similar with someone missing a skillcheck in line of sight of you closeby) and a maximum range (especially on bigger maps) where there is no sound bubble at all. Basically it is weak and only the first few totems will be delayed significantly by thrill as each totem gone, another 6% of cleansing slowdown is gone with it.
Next they released Deathslinger's Hex: Retribution perk which gave Oblivious for 45 to anyone who cleansed your dull totems but also a full out AURA reveal on ALL survivors for 10 seconds regardless of who broke the hex totem including Hex Retribution itself.
Hex: Undying has a 2m AURA reveal around every totem for 6 seconds then it completely fades out - it does not refresh on the same person again from the same totem for an unknown amount (someone let me know if there is a specific time) of time but it isn't within the next 20 seconds from my personal testing.
@LittilAvindar This last part is fairly important. Though this aura reveal is far longer range it's a simple matter of counting to 6 in your head instead of immediately beelining for the totem. I play solo queue survivor at R1 constantly and normally left to do all 5 bones alone - and as a Killer player who has tried the combo... seeing someone "running by" a hex totem from the distance does not make me want to go towards them and reveal my hex location to them. Pretending to run by then returning after counting 5 "one thousands" our loud will almost guarantee that you won't get interrupted at that hex unless you were the ONLY one the killer has any idea for where you area. Keep breaking Undying/Ruin combos - it's very possible for me to do all 5 in solo queue without even running Small Game or Detectives hunch anymore (Though the latter is very helpful).
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
Dude thats what I did. Trapper and spirit. Maybe they'll add new skins for trapper and make it so spirit has a 3 minute cool down on her power 😆
That's a bit much... like I said earlier the only thing I would like to see is either something like audio deafness during phase to reduce the accuracy or at least give the survivors a intermittent blink of a ghostly outline of her when she is phasing so they have have a better prediction on when they need to attempt to juke like Otzdarva suggested. She's really not a problem if she isn't chaining hits (as she is base 110% movement) and flying around the map gen to gen with Mother/Daughter Ring with no real downside atm.
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@SonicTheRestaurant said:
I was gonna buy this killer. Is he good?
I honestly "know" he isn't the best killer out there but he is hands down the best stealth killer over Wraith, Pig and even Myers for actually ambushing survivors. His weakness is traversing the map and that he doesn't have a instantly winnable power during loops - you WILL need to work on your fundamentals as a killer.
The reason he's better than Wraith and Pig is the almost lack of downside or activation condition other than a cooldown for going stealth - and the ability to have lethality without having to jump through hoops with perks. 99% by leaning out from something then walk up to them like a normal chase and you can immediately pop and down people - a well played Ghostface will basically never have to hit an unexposed healthy survivor unless they're freely offering themselves up to you.
Between Bubba and Ghostface - I would say the current Cannibal after the rework is far more dangerous from a purely balance standpoint if they have all their perks and addons available. Lots of window loops and even pallet loops aren't very safe against new Cannibal and requires good timing and far more skill once the Cannibal knows how to effectively zone as well.
That said GF basically only stacks his cooldown addons or runs Outdoor Surveillance Camera(+Infectious Fright)+ Pen for 100% map wide information that survivors can't really play around BUT doing stealth mind games is still far more fun to play than running people over with Cannibal (which is pretty much the only fun part about Bubba).
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@Mikeasaurus said:
I've been debating this exact situation for a couple weeks now myself. My friend who used to SWF with me now abandoned the game because of the constant tunneling, Mori's, etc. We used to play for a couple hours a night together just for fun, but even that isn't possible with how killers are playing these days. Solo queues are a complete nightmare. I either get lucky with a semi-competent set of players, or complete potatoes that throw every pallet they physically see, or divebomb hook in front of the killer. Playing killer has become painful too, with constant DS, Unbreakable combos everywhere or SWF acting toxic every game. I don't tunnel, never have, never will, and I always try to keep the game fair and fun for everyone, but it's become a joke seeing it every single game. I'll probably force myself to grind out my last few tiers of the rift to get my moneys worth, but after that, I think this game is going to be shelved for some time until some serious changes happen.
It's pretty much a cycle that happened with me repeatedly, each friend group has a few people give it a shot with me then just start dropping like flies due to one reason or another. I introduce a few more - a few stick around then eventually fade away in interest as well. The grind is abysmal (more than most MMORPGs) and only a few people have a "I don't give a F" mentality necessary to have fun with this game. I still return to the game for each rift and chapter release due to the sheer investment fallacy wired into my brain...
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@Slashstreetboy said:
Trapper and Spirit.
They are so far apart power wise it´s not even funny. I hope they find a way to tune Spirit down without gutting her if they decide to address the issue.
The "I have no options" because she can hear me thing is the only aspect I would personally touch. Most Spirits are "not" a problem because they aren't abusing this part of her current kit properly.
Going as far as disabling her ability to HEAR anything other than noise explosions and screams (From perks, missed checks or fast actions) including breathing, groans of pain, footsteps during phasewalk would validate everything else in her kit. Not being able to hear phase walks? The stand still mind game, the ability to actually predict survivors off scratch marks (or blood with Father's glasses) alone is powerful but no one near the level of oppressive it would be even against short activation hits. If you're the survivor mind gaming yourself into a standing still spirit at a pallet when the Spirit is just as likely to miss you if you walk or crouch walk around then that was your personal mistake out of fear.
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@C3Tooth said:
Seeing people pick Trapper as the least effective - (happy Trapper main noise)
I play a few matches of Trapper here and there but find in most matches I end up having no access to 2~3 of his traps due to RNG - having people struggle out way too fast... or figuring someone is "too far away" then having them stay in the trap for like a full minute alone. It actually makes me make a lot of bad decisions even if they have "value" anyway and other times you're basically a basic M1 killer if a SWF decides to bully you with OoO and you aren't thinking 2 chess moves ahead to play around them
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Think he was joking anyway... I've found survivors in red ranks run "at least" 86% Exhaustion Perks across 1000 survivors recorded. More likely than not you're getting value from it.
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@Axe said:
Mindbreaker buffs my SB, whenever I hear the killer terror radius I will just walk for 4 seconds and keep it at 99% until I get caught in a bad spot :) if something they nerfed it to bad survivors who dont know how to use exhaust perks correctly but buffed it to survivors who know how to 99 it and so on
@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
I mean,removing that only 50% of the gen requirement is great,but 5 seconds sounds underwhelming.
10 seconds would be waaaay better.
You guys are completely forgetting that any time on gens while exhausted completely pauses your exhaustion recovery to zilch. If you sprint burst at the beginning of the game and run to a gen to find out... Mindbreaker. Your 20~30s of exhaustion recovery while fondling that generator isn't coming, you either commit to walking inbetween gens to recover it or you sit there knowing you will be exhausted when the killer shows up.
As a killer if you get to a gen - someone goes flying off it with SB and you immediately break chase and kick that gen. If they return to that gen or any other gen they have a potential 35~ second exhaustion stuck on them unless they want to sit it out for a bit to recover that. It's far more likely you will catch survivors who have recently been on gens to have their exhaustion perks still down if you make them expend it and just break chase (it doesn't always happen but it's a great counter to Sprint Burst rather than it being completely negated by that first "99%".
Played about 15 games with it on PTB and was consistently catching people exhausted throughout the match (perhaps they didnt want to wait out their exhaustions in a locker somewhere) and a lot of "Wow Mindbreaker is pretty annoying" in post game lobby. It's a psuedo-slowdown or free hit value more often then you think. I didn't even run it on Berus Toxin Huntress or Solvent Jug Clown which is already fairly annoying to deal with - now they have to stay off gens if they want their exhaustion to recover if a crowd of them get gased by a pro Clown running discordance
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I made a thread about it over at the 4.3 PTB feedback section
It is definitely far more useable like this
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You don't stand in the middle of the hatch stand off slightly towards where the hatch's "handle is" opposite of the way it would swing on it's hinges. You can completely deny hatches (by closing them while standing there) and even if they bring a key you can sit on it and wait the egc out especially if they won't go towards an exit in fear, just have a judge of distance they have to be away before hitting them because they lose collision for a bit if you do and can hatch out through you. There is no more grabs as far as I know - though someone claimed you still could from behind (I wouldn't risk it anyway).
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@seki23 said:
now is decent still not enough to replace any meta perk.
It's actually much better in this form that it very well could be useable. Made a post about it with screenshots on PTB feeback
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@Zeus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1653339#Comment_1653339
If mindbreaker works for the entire progress of gen then it is a wonderful perk for stealth killers.
Made a separate post about it over there
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1653359#Comment_1653359
There was no sarcasm. They have literally said they are currently working on Clown. Not that they are going to, or that he's on a list, but that they actually are working on him. So listing him in this survey as your choice when they are already working on him is a waste. Put in another killer you'd like to see, and not one they've already chosen and currently are working on.
The sarcasm part was for the other guy who I quoted there in that post, that was my mistake for the confusion
Whelp that's nice to know if they've already said Clown is next up for a rework/balancing touch in the next patch / hotfix or midchapter after PH nerf and perks rework goes through - in which case I guess we're just voting for whoever comes after Clown then.
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@oh_0k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1653179#Comment_1653179
Yeah your right these killers are never gonna change ever
Huntress will always have a wrong amount of addons and iri head
Myres will always be a weak oni
Clown will always be the worst killer in the game
Im so sorry for thinking the devs would change things in this game ever.
@Dwight_Fairfield It's not about them "never" changing anything if that was clearly the sarcasm that I detected there. It's more about what change they will prioritize over the other. It's a pipe dream to think all these things in the pipe for consideration, coding and even up for testing is going to be dropped all at once - perhaps they're asking through the survey for clarity and consideration on what they want to bring in first.
Just because they've said more than a year ago that "Iridescent Heads" for Huntress are going to be looked at and her addons reworked doesn't mean the Billy/Cannibal rework and new releases PH/Blight took priority balancing perhaps to that popular demand
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1) Wrong section https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/categories/4-3-0-ptb-feedback
2) Thanatophobia would be "better" in that case and would even be worth testing on PTB ... 5% instead of 4% per stack is super underwhelming and barely an inconvenience in current PTB - they went far to cautious with that "buff"
3) Mindbreaker actually removed that 50% gen progress requirement completely in current PTB without being reflected in the patch notes. Tested it myself "CAN 99.9% confirm that it works even after 50% of the gen is progressed on PTB at the moment.
Also confirmed it with the survivors after the match who said they were exhausted when they tapped a gen that was already progressed to about 75% that I intentionally left alone, unless these guys I talked to in post game then on their stream chat decided to just outright lie."
vs Current Live version for context
4) Still have to test this out on PTB but unable to really get feedback from it without a buddy playing killer against me... haven't convinced anyone to get the PTB downloaded yet though
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Strange. When I watch Scott Jund play, even he doesn't have pinpoint accuracy with Spirit. He suggests to use it in short bursts to catch up to the survivor rather than get a hit directly out of it.
It's also because he doesn't turn his volume up to 11 and has to manage his stream/interaction with his viewers if he is streaming. He's a far better killer than me and he could 100% pull it off if he wanted to. Even short bursts with an activation addon + stridor and even when missing a hit or two can still result in less than 40s chases anyway without running an Iris addon. Just predictions from like having 5000+ games does that
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The stack should also be rewarded from Locker stun saves with Head-On (I don't believe it works that way currently but will test it later with a buddy). Flashie saves and pallet saves are rare enough that those alone. Picking someone up from dying state for stacks sounds fine to me since I honestly see no reason to limit the bloodpoints bonus at all if people are actually playing the game and not hiding in a corner somewhere
I will say that the 100% increase to healing when recovering someone off the ground is more than good... everybody is stuck in this mindset that they should only pick someone up who is 95% recovered already which is giving the killer a minimum of 20~30s (unbreakable vs default) to return to the downed guy and pick him up after getting another M1 or down on someone else.
15~16s being reduced to 7~8s immediately not to mention you can use this with Botany/Desperate measures and even medkits makes this a very powerful effect against anyone who dares to slug - even better if the downed guy has Soul Guard (Which is very much a meta perk atm). It's a BP giving perk and worth it just for that.
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Okay tested and CAN 99.9% confirm that it works even after 50% of the gen is progressed on PTB at the moment.
Also confirmed it with the survivors after the match who said they were exhausted when they tapped a gen that was already progressed to about 75% that I intentionally left alone, unless these guys I talked to in post game then on their stream chat decided to just outright lie.
Edit: Current Live Mindbreaker for context
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Anyone willing to test and confirm from a survivor whether it does continue for the whole repair?
Will test it now since I'm playing on the PTB - give me 10 mins max
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@oh_0k said:
I wouldn't pick clown, huntress, or Myres cause they are up to get changed soon
Seems awfully assuming of you that "looking into it" means these changes are coming front loaded soon...
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@VentingSylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1652970#Comment_1652970
That's what I was saying about his aim, just add a 2 delay before he can scope again and he'll be fine. Don't agree with the movement speed change, that'll just encourage to use his power less and M1 more.
If people want to completely play a 115% M1 killer without his power at all then that's really not a problem... he's considered weak because his ability to map pressure is abysmal that they feel his chase "has to be" strong and oppressive. Which I sort of agree with because the best strategy to just crush a Deathslinger is to power gens and leave, not giving him chases at all if possible
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@Heartbound said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Q50FMN1K3DAL/respetful.png
I did the thing. I was very Respetful.
I noticed the typos in question 39 too... S0mwhat and how Modernity so you think this is?
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@VentingSylar said:
For ineffective I put Myers as by the time he's hit tier 3 he's usually gen rushed out of existence. He needs a rework for his stealth so it doesn't take so long to build up.
For oppressive I put Deathslinger simply because of how much zoning he does. Y'know how he aims at you so you zig zig only for him to cancel his aim in a second and M1's instead, he gets so much free zoning. They just fixed it for Pyramid Head so he's not as bad now. Now they just need to add a delay to him cancelling his aim.
It probably won't go down like this but the Deathslinger fix that makes the most sense to me is:
He goes from a 110% -> 115% killer when his harpoon is not ready and he chooses not to reload.
His quick scope to aim down sight remains as that is the most rewarding part of his kit - just add a delay for when he cancels his aim before he can quick scope again by another 1.5 or 2s so it isn't a constant zoning game to try and close distance rather than forcing him to take the shot. He should be rewarding to take risks not more rewarding to not in most cases since you can swing then still have your harpoon for a follow up - the preferred way to approach a down on DS at the moment when combined with STBFL.
The movement speed buff is to make up for him being a weaker huntress in a lot of regards and help him get around the map even slightly better. Both him and Huntress are 110% but highly skilled Huntresses create pressure with cross maps... Deathslinger has 18m and a smaller terror radius as his only weapons forcing him to run M&A to make even more use of that.
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@Hopesfall said:
"too oppressive"
isn't the point of having survivors.. to stress them out? is that not the theme of the game?
so how can something be too much of what you're trying to achieve
Probably why they left that "None" option in there for killers who are tired of getting nerf after nerf - but you know how opinionated everyone here is about nerfing this or that.
@Slashstreetboy said:
Can´t wait for the results!
No comments about the Shape needing that Tier 1 Rework (I agree it needs to be something... it's already hindering a pretty vanilla killer) or conceding that it's slightly less of a priority? :P
Would be curious to what other killers feel about the "oppressive" choice as well or are you guys going for "None"?
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Can confirm - these are all on 2nd down or death hook survivors who have "played" at least a few minutes of the match but decide that 5 seconds to the hook is far too much to not pull the plug. There are alot that dc on load in or first down too that I dont even bother counting anymore - What exactly is the perfect storm of conditions a survivor needs to play the game?
It goes both ways though... quite a few killers (2 out of 5 for me) that gets looped for a few gens just immediately unplugs in a fit of rage... god forbid they lose their Hex runes too against a solo queue squad (Basically either me looping or just breaking every single totem on the map alone...)
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Spirit is currently one of my favorite killers to play and one that is definitely the most abuseable currently due to a perk called Stridor. People will cry that audio bugs makes Stridor unreliable to use but I'm yet to really have issues with a few hundred games running it. I don't even have trouble finding healthy survivors trying to play Hide and Seek with me (if they're not in a locker) while I run Stridor, Whispers and Mother Daughter Ring (I 100% will take a 70% movement speed increase addon because I don't even need scratch marks to hit any veteran survivor). The fact that I can do short phase walks at 236% movement speed (not just the 176% of base Spirit) and accurately hit people consecutively is borderline abusive - I don't even bother kicking most pallets on the map unless my power is down and I HAVE to chase as a 110% for a bit. My win rate on her is even higher than my 60~70% win rate (Since I track my 4Ks and 3K+Hatch on excel) on other killers even against the "sweatiest" of SWFs that split up and try to pressure gens solo while I down each person in less the a 50s no matter how many pallets they drop - honestly I get get messed up more by Septics and survivors taking hits for one another more than anything else if they're actually coordinated.
The predictive element in her kit has be played up - release Spirit was considered weak because people didn't have enough games to realize how PINPOINT accurate you could still hear people during phase... She was annoying with the old Prayer beads but only being able to juke somewhat newer Spirits was a larger issue.
Anyways - the people crying about not being able to hear phase sounds and getting grabbed off pallets by the "standing still" mind game aren't really aware why that's so easy to pull off... the danger of a phase hit is high because of how accurate tracking is through sound alone - forcing them into thinking it's a lose/lose.
This is of course talking about killers who have 1000+ hours and can actually make use of this. Plenty of Lower "skilled" Spirits bomb out and juked themselves and don't run Stridor for reasons (on principle or not knowing how good it is), because I lead them around for 5 gens too... these aren't the Spirit players you should be balancing around. I'm not even a "good" killer by most people's metrics here and I am most confident on Spirit+Stridor+MD ring against ANY survivor comp even streamers with 8k+ hours.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
So my internet worked today. That's a first.
Pop Goes The Weasel:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D9RRBC5ZJMIQ/image.png
Surge:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R3J5BESZP2UE/image.png
Overcharge:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/669Y3NJMF5Z8/image.png
EDIT OF THE EDIT: Here's the original descriptions taken from live servers:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/68W4XROV9UPL/image.png
Thank you for taking the time to do this - think that basically confirms that there is still no synergy between Surge and the other 2 perks... I think it already works with Hex: Ruin at the moment (the explosion working on already regressing gens in the area around where you down someone) but would like to see some PTB KYF testing done to be sure... maybe bug some friends about it (grumble grumble)
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@ClickyClicky said:
surge affects regressing gens but i imagine overcharge and pop dont since you can't kick a regressing generator.
That would also be my assumption but why add that final line about Pop and Overcharge?
Maybe it's specifically saying in their text that they cannot be used with regressing generators since you can't complete a kick action. Mother of god.. a tooltip buff.
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@KingOfGhost said:
36% is 28 sec more you can sit for 28 sec or heal for 32 sec or use WGLF to heal in 24 sec.
We're Gonna Live Forever's healing bonus is only when the other survivor is in the dying state. It reduces the default 16 second default heal from dying state to 8 seconds (100% increase) if they haven't been able to recover at all and you immediately start healing them once they've been downed (Probably more realistically like 14s -> 7s or so).
Two people healing one another for (16x2)= 32 seconds - or using a medkit to heal themselves in that same amount of time each is relatively strong BUT your suggestions make Legion and Plague much more oppressive then they are now. While Plague is ever so popular (Survivors love her /s) I personally don't want to see any more Legions than I already do considering how braindead boring it is to play as and play against it.
Not saying the Thana "buff" to 5% slowdown on gens is in any way making it a useable perk so even going as far as 9% might might be worth considering just to test "how oppressive" it is... especially when stacked with Forever Freddy Addons - rather than err on caution so much on the PTB.
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@Awakey said:
No...?
Why exactly would I waste an offering slot that does me nothing? I could put a map or an oak or something there.
@bubbabrotha said:
Why would I want to help my enemy?
@TheEdster said:
I agree moris need to be looked at, but this?
Why would you as a Survivor give the Killer such an advantage?
Not sure if you guys are actually being shortsighted, meme'ing or not understanding the OP...
He's suggesting that things like Ebony Mori's (and Keys even) still retain their current powers - being able to kill someone off first hook etc etc. but have an additional sideeffect of being a one-sided Bloody Party Streamer for the enemy team only. When you burn a Mori currently - you are already not bringing your own Bloodpoint offerings like Survivor Pudding which means you aren't getting a bonus to BP anyway... so nothing changes for you if you are the killer burning a Mori Offering.
This
1) Incentivizes the survivors to actually play the game and let the Mori's go through - trying to get as many bloodpoints as possible and not to DC to make it 0 (Since this bonus to BP bonus would stack with their own BP offerings). Yes, they might still die off first hook and make 5k base... it's still 10~11k for them for actually playing the match instead of disconnecting on loading screen (Meaning you got to use your mori too).
2) If the same is done for killers with things like Black Lock Hatch Escapes... a score event for the killer that was instantly like "+3000" Survivor Snuck out with a Key" - it would be mutually beneficial in the event that BHVR doesn't outright remove or rework them as they are at the moment.
3) This would take far less coding to just give BP incentives and program it as a new scoring event or bonus rather than having to rework an entire gameplay system, with animations and other stuff depending on what solution they land on.
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@piggypablo said:
This first time I played Mike Myers was against a blendette SWF. I had no idea what I was doing, they would pallet stun -> flashlight -> teabag combo. Naturally, they got all 5 gens, opened the exit gate and chain flashlight blinded me when I was close to getting one of them at the exit gate. Adding salt to the wound, they tbagged me at the exit.
This is the opposite of the purpose of this thread... seems like a reply for a thread labeled "What was your first ever game like?"
or are you saying things have improved since then? 🙄
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The wait to hook with BW mostly through EGC is more of a meme and not a balance issue. More often than not you can figure out most perks the killer is running throughout a long match and at that point if no one is being hooked at EGC when they have the opportunity to then he's probably waiting for it... just leave using that prior experience as knowledge for future games.
Now onto balancing, I agree Bloodwarden or the Gate mechanic as a whole needs to be changed.
The simple change would be to make it so gates have natural regression points (As noted by the lights) being they have to be progressed past the 25/50/75% marks and they will power down to that point. No more 99% gates to keep an infinite end game for rescues and an attempt to play around the current Bloodwarden as they would require a minimum of a few seconds to get from 75->100. Even if I am also guilty of 99%ing gates at the moment - it's definitely a flaw in design that we're encouraged to play that way in most situations.
A perk specific rework idea for Bloodwarden instead could be making it activate immediately upon an exit opening rather than having a hooking requirement to it. It would have to be weakened in exchange like removing the aura reveal from it and possibly reducing the length of the block by half 10/20/30s instead of 30/40/60s as it'll be a far more powerful endgame effect that activates every single game that you can't stop all the gens might even become meta with NoEd (hey look more encouragement to break all totems... give a totem count on the overlay for solo players).
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@supersonic853 said:
was playing legion on autohaven had killed 1 person last gen was like 70 percent done. Then downed a meg so i could get pop to pop the gen and she insta dced to avoid me getting pop. And she even said after the game "bet you wish you got that pop dont you?" I told her how its a exploit but apparently "no its a strategy i dced so you wouldnt get pop from my body". Guess its like dcing for hatch its a "strategy" (its really not)
I just roll my eyes since most of these kiddos taking the game so seriously would consider that some sort "win" in their own eyes. I get more than a few DCs on death hook which makes no sense to me either since the survivor has already played the entire match and is going to be dead in 5 more seconds anyway... why throw the bloodpoints away if you burned a BP offering themselves ontop of that?
These are DC on 2nd down or deathhook - I got about 3 more 1st DC on first downs tonight too. Takes 10 matches to get 1 good match in against a coordinated SWF - too many potatos =(
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Had a pretty good time against a OoO SWF earlier tonight on Ormond - kept making them burn their Sprint bursts then immediately breaking chase with them and kept slugging their OoO user (Even though he used Unbreakable+Soul Guard+DS with no exhaustion perk) to bait his friends and keep more people injured. Even if the match ended with the last guy hatching out with a key that his buddy brought in and left under his hook, felt pretty good hooking that last guy near the hatch after they were dismantled with a gen still remaining on that crummy map.
Surprisingly they all stuck around to say "Gg" in post screen and left it at that - made my night actually considering the other 6~7 matches had survivors refusing to play left and right if they got downed too fast. Lots of suicide or DC on first hook which makes me just rush down the rest of the match against 3 survivors playing hide and seek since they have very little chances to win... not very interesting though
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@Iron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651624#Comment_1651624
I understand that there is a lot to do, but realistically looking at it, is 10 hrs on average per character really that much to just get them some decent perks? I've put my time into killers more than survivors with all but 6 of them being P3 all perks (the remaining ones are still P3 50 minus blight), but I still have 6 survivors all perked and most every other one is prestiged at least once. I'm just saying that it's not as bad as people say it is.
I would still like maybe one more set of perks per bloodweb and to increase the shrine amount of perks to 6 or 8, but I don't think much beyond that is really needed.
I'm still grinding like 90% if people, but I guess I'm just seeing it differently since I started nearly 4 years ago now and saw how bad that all was.
An increase to the weekly shrine might negatively effect their bottom line since selling chapters is supposed to be easier than waiting around for them to pop up in the shrine teachables. As a player I agree that would be nice but I can see why it would be harder to sell if it has a risk involved with direct sales.
10~15 hours on average per character on either side using offerings, dailies and archive challenges is still a pretty intense grind. You have to think that could be almost 2 weeks for a casual player who plays a 1~3 matches every evening for their dailies.
People like you and me who have been playing for years and have unlocked everything have to step back objectively and try to see this from the average target market... BHVR's only risk in removing "too much" of the grind is that people might ultimately run out of things to spend bloodpoints on at some point other than Prestiging III on each character over again. There'll still be more than 500+ minimal hours of game time investment which should retain players since they release new chapters (killers, perks etc) and even gameplay changes or balances.... heck even cosmetics keep people invested to some degree.
If tiers won't be removed from the game then the webs need to be significantly smaller with 6 perks available instead of 4 at a time. There should be less than half the current nodes that just suck up points even if you manipulate the web well - as grabbing more addons and offerings can be that ending point sink once all the perks are unlocked.
The category limits for each match being at 8k should be lifted or at least keep the post game 1.5 or 2x Bloodpoint type postgame reward (like event times) as a constant effect. Rework certain perks (Distressing, Beast of Prey, No one Left Behind, etc) and killer addons (Especially ones that give a detriment in exchange for more bloodpoints like two of the Nurse addons) that give increased bloodpoints in certain categories to work like post-game rewards for those specific categories so they actually stack even further with BBQ / WGLF and aren't limited by the current 8k cap. There is no reason for those even trying to specifically BP grind to run these like "Speed Limiter" Hillbilly if you're maxing out those categories anyway through normal play.
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@Iron said:
Most people will probably disregard my comment considering I'm an older player, but here we go.
The grind isn't that bad. They have added additional perks to bloodwebs to decrease the grind, they made shards worth about 10x the amount of bloodpoints they used to be worth, they made dailies easier and worth twice as much, they've increased the worth of all bp offerings for single categories by 25%, they've increased scoring event bp in game multiple times, they've created multiple different double bp offerings that are stackable, and they introduced the rift, which has a few million bp in challenges every time.
Bp are easy to get and if you're not a completionist then the grind isn't really that much.
I would have to disagree here just because I've visibly seen new players drop the game upon realizing the sheer amount of games they would have to play just to feel like they had "options" even for the few people who picked up chapters on sale. I always try to downplay that aspect as it's not that serious of a game and it's entirely possible to get every teachable without a since auric/chapter purchase if you're determined... still doesn't keep more than half the people around.
I'm not saying that a long grind doesn't serve it's purpose for keeping certain personalities invested in the game (as someone who has basically finished getting every perk on every killer and now doing something similar to Survivors - something I prefer to do over trying to P3 everyone to dump my excess BP when I already have other cosmetics) but it's definitely a large barrier to entry for people who are just trying to casual play and experience different builds and situations.
The devs said they were reluctant to change bloodpoint caps or even webs directly because they want people spending their bloodpoints and not hoarding them... they're missing the forest for the trees. These older players just sit it at 1mil and hope for other kickbacks to push it to 1,500,000 etc for when they pick up a brand new character on release day. The 2 out of over 20 friends who I have introduced to this game who stuck around have pointed out that after 100~150 hours of gameplay they're still barely level 40 across all their characters and just now starting to have all basic (no dlc) teachables across a single character. Increase that investment by about another 200+ hours if the players decided to pick up all the chapter dlcs and want those teachables too.
MMORPGs require less initial investment... probably something BHVR should keep in mind
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@834r_ said:
I think I've honestly just gotten to the point where I give up facing SWF groups. Every time I see 4 survivors come into the pre-game lobby at the same time I just leave and search for a new match.
The reason? Well, it's not fun to face SWF groups. Games against them just feel too stressful to even enjoy. I've tried facing them in different ways, but nothing seems to work against good teams. I'm honestly happy that undying+ruin+technician is a thing now because at least that does something to them. Sadly I don't have them. ;-;
I think you mean Tinkerer's instead of Technician and that is arguably FAR stronger against uncoordinated teams or solos - a good team of SWFs will sus out every single totem and pressure them all making you a 2 perk dandy for the rest of the match. It's still slowdown but not really having much effect on good SWFs
Onto the original point - Just approach the match with a far more carefree attitude and don't care about the number of kills but try to maximize your scoring events (even if it's just hits) and mindgames during chases. You'll see significant improvements in your play once you get more flexible on when to break chases and how to zone survivors into other survivors - if a guy seems like a very strong looper then kick a pallet and intentionally go patrolling for someone else until you either find a weak link or inevitably find someone (even that strong looper) out of position. Once again - welcome the challenge rather than laying down in the fetal position when its not 4 potatos running in straight lines and taking 10+ mins to do gens... because you have to admit you get those matches too even in red ranks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1650387#Comment_1650387
a downside to a downside?
A cooldown isn't really a downside - it's to curb it's power so you don't have infinite i-frames or 150% movement speed constantly.
Being permanently being Broken in exchange your ability to stand up again infinitely, slightly reduced grunts of pain noise and no blood droplets ... that's a downside and why it isn't being used.
Having reduced healing speeds for until first 2 healing skill checks is a downside to see any benefit from a perk is a downside.
Running a perk that has a chance of seeing absolutely no use (ie running Calm Spirit and getting a killer that doesn't have a power nor power that makes you scream) in a particular match is a downside.
I'm okay with this change because it's true that there is absolutely no reason not to run an Exhaustion perk at the moment outside of principle if you are trying to win and it's 4~ (BL isn't as universal) perks will always crowd out other choices and variances in builds as they are now (As seen here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/194632/the-latest-survivor-meta-snapshot-with-excel-data/p1?new=1)
One caveat being that Spirit + Stridor changes have to be made as it is and this would only increase that issue unless simultaneously addressed.
It also significantly lowers the potential of stealth builds considering how good tracking perks are at the moment - could see a significant outcry of tears from that portion of the community who doesn't enjoy looping/chases as much
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Will drop Ringwinnings games here - Bump for anyone else willing to help out
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
So I gave it a try: all three of his add-ons that allow Pallets instead of snares.
The Prototype Claws had a little delay once or twice but it was so negligible I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been looking for it. I could still fully place pallets mid-chase at full speed without much of a worry each time it happened, and of the like 11 or so pallets I placed it only happened once or twice.
The common and rare versions I didn't notice any issues with. The delay between pushing the button and setting the pallet was actually super smooth - something I'm not that used to in console DbD.
All this said, I am on PS4. Maybe it's an issue on another platform, but for me I didn't have any real problems.
Thanks for going out to test it yourself - I'm going to be honest I didn't want to bother with Dream Pallets xD
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@CheeseAnton said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7U5N7GCAOQ40/my-image-284-29.png
I'll explain some of the more confusing ones.
Demogorgon: He mastered teleportation, so obviously he has at least a 112% in science. He's also good at subtracting humans out of the equation is fast boi zoom zoom at PE. He definitely failed English, but besides that his average is 93%.
Clown: His grades were his only good joke.
Dwight: on his lore in the gamepedia, it mentions how his grades were "distinctly below average" and I'd assume average is 89%-80% so distinctly means 2 tiers below so I could make that Ace joke.
Spirit: Died before she could finish school.
Blight being some sort of mad chemist (Some of those organic chemistry courses were pretty challenging) or the "alchemist" that was dealing in complete unknowns to try and escape it sounds like he would be genius of some sort at least.
Not sure if Demogorgon who is almost a instinct driven predator (Navigating the upside down is sort of a born trait) would mean he has an understanding of theoretical astrophysics studying time and space like a scholar .
Same for probably C average, Freddy for that matter (he sort of gets bamboozled by teens in the movies)
Oh man you gave Boomstick toting Ash an Above Average 80~89%? So smart he shops at S mart.
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@MasterGrit said:
☝️ If there's that kind of content creator, streamer in DBD.
Just want to practice another playstyle.
If you mean survivors then PainReliever is the main one that comes to mind who prides himself on that playstyle and playing blendette. He usually has insight and running commentary on his own matches and is very soft spoken and calm guy to listen to while watching - highly recommend if that's your thing
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
Thanks for all the input!
I am currently not using any addons, I want to get my blink to where it's just pure instinct. My blink management needs work, there are many instances where if I had 2 blinks, it would end in a down.
Other question, fav Nurse skin or combo skin? I like blinking around with 'mother mercy' or 'until death parts' a mix and match of both.. I'm considering getting 'miss smithson'.....
Miss Smithson is DOPE and Lady Lunatic is right up there for me
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@ringwinning said:
Also not sure if the ones I'm "providing" even help since as you can see some of those builds are like... meme builds xD
Not at all - I'll probably use all of these with the exception of the 2 games with disconnects.
Sort of follows my point that my personal games have been sort of plagued with Disconnects tonight so I'm not gathering nearly as much data for time spent... Keep up the good work with the perk roulette thread.
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@dugman said:
Cool, got a ping on this. 😄 Anyway, some things I think might be worth watching for:
- Probably shouldn't include disconnects in the survey. Someone ragequitting in the beginning of the match throws things off for the whole survivor.
- If the scores are working "properly" I think you'll end up with:
- 4 kill games almost always having the killer with the highest score
- 3 kill games usually having the killer with the highest score but sometimes the escaping survivor wins on score because they carried the rest of the team
- 2 kill games will be kind of split 50/50 between the killer versus a survivor having the highest score. (I'm mainly looking just at which side has the highest score.)
- 1 kill has the killer usually not having the highest score, but occasionally they get it because the survivors simply slammed gens and did nothing else at all while the killer did a lot of secondary actions like breaking pallets and gens and getting a bunch of non-lethal hooks.
- 0 kills will almost always have the killer not having the highest score.
So the hypothesis is that looking at whichever side gets the highest score in the game is a fairly consistent indicator of which side "won" the game in terms of kills alone. And while it's often argued that the killer has a higher average score than the survivors, the question being looked at here would be is the killer's average score higher than the average highest score each match among all the survivors.
In the small sample in the original post above, for instance,
- Exclude the first two disconnects.
- Match 3 was a 4k and the killer had the highest score.
- Match 4 was a 2k with the killer getting 25k and the highest survivor getting 27k (so a somewhat close win on score for the survivors)
- Match 5 was a 3k with the killer beating the escaping survivor on score (which is usually the case but not always since escaping is worth 5k points)
Those three games above, at least, match the pattern.
This helps since it defines what I'm looking for a bit better... as the for the two disconnects in first image killer games, both were disconnects on final death hook as I was picking them up which is why I included them as I counted those as full games even if I was "denied" extra sacrifice BP. The 3 other killer games were sort of already disqualified for first down disconnects or even one with 3 disconnects and 1 guy getting a hatch with 5 gens and 1 down. Basically I was 5 for 5 on disconnects in some form when I was on killer which is why I made this thread.
It's sort of why I started just playing solo queue survivor while watching youtube and surfing the forums because I was getting bored. These games were played at R1 Survivor with DH, BT, Bond, Resilience as my build just to play without DS intentionally
I'm up to 9 Survivor matches tonight including the ones above... and already have 2 rage quitting killers if I loop them for 3~4 gens without even going down because they just brainlessly follow me around and kick every single pallet i stun them with even if they're unsafe.
The far left one is 3 survivors including me failing a super altruistic play against a Noed Bubba with both gates open but it's about the most interesting thing I've done all night on survivor...
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@CheyeneKL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1648508#Comment_1648508
I'm not denying the existence of sweaty SWAT SWF squads- it's natural for very good players to congregate to play together and try to win. And it's normal for players (killers and survivors) to run the best perks for their win attempts. DS/UB is obviously a very strong combo when it is used together, even if it isn't actually as common as many forum posters here had me believing it was.
By your data, at maximum there are 9%-10% of survivors running DS/UB, since the highest number of UB usage you have is at 96 instances of it equipped. That's around 39% of games with at least one person who could be running that perk combo. If the majority of DS/UB perk combo users are concentrated into tryhard SWFs with two DS/UB users, that's 19%-20% of games with the combo... right? Ugh my brain can only take so many numbers LOL so please do correct me if I'm wrong with any of this! Also, I'm ignoring the existence of a possible rise of DS/SG users (or even DS/SG/UB) since that's newer to the meta and the perk combos aren't included in your data. If SG is paired with DS that obviously raises the number of anti slug + anti-tunnel (or anti-momentum, however you choose to view the perk) builds. Regardless, the possibility of there being 19%-39% of games with at least one DS/UB perk combo user is nothing to sneeze at, but I truly did expect to see something closer to 60%-80%, if I'm being completely honest
As for what I was saying with my reply to the other guy- he was talking about the Ruin nerf and how some people believe that it was nerfed due to its high usage rate (80% at red ranks according to dev statistics). I made the point that DS usage does not quite get close to that level of usage. Points can be made that multiple DS procs per game can be devastating to a killer trying to win a game, but all I was showing him is that by your data, DS doesn't get close to being used as much as Ruin was at red ranks pre-nerf. If I misunderstood how you present your data, then I of course would have gotten my math wrong- but to my understanding it did look like only 31% of survivors ran DS (which of course means that there could have been a 100% chance to have at least one DS per every single game, but information like that was not included in your data, so I couldn't make any venture about that with certainty)
The rest of my reply to him was to show that even if you took the 281 non-red rank survivors out of the equation, the percentage of DS users at red ranks doesn't go past 45%.
None of my reply was saying whether or not the DS/UB perk combo is overpowered or not, it was merely an attempt to compare numbers from your data on survivor perks to the pre-nerf Ruin data from the devs. Nothing more, nothing less :)
Again, if I misunderstood your data and was totally off on any points I tried to draw from your numbers, feel free to correct me haha, math has never been my best skill!
- You are correct (at least in my tracked games) I do not run into a DS/UB combo in every single game contrary to popular forum sentiment (no where near 60~80% lol) and less than 1/5 of games is correct. I almost never run Hex perks unless a challenge requires me to or I'm testing out the new "hotness" for a few matches so the Soul Guard + DS alternative also didn't see a memorable effect in my games.
- It's definitely not 100% that at least a single survivor has Decisive Strike in every match BUT due to other Obsession perks (even my own or a survivors) - I still play around the possibility of DS anyway if I'm using STBFL for example. Out of 314 instances of DS, I probably ate less than 10~15 of those unintentionally as a error on my part so that simple "fear of DS" promotes a natural playstyle in me that gives survivors more of a second chance whether they have the perk or not (Another common killer complaint).
- While I have no problems with the current DS personally - I also understand other killers' frustrations with it given it's prevalence at red ranks. I also understand the survivor frustrations with from games where I have no obsession at all as killer (or playing as survivor in the same scenario) as they tend to go very badly for the survivors - and for good reason. It's a different pace completely when a single survivor mistake just removes more than quarter of their chances of winning (even if I don't intentionally tunnel someone out if other targets present themselves) just not giving them any time slugged is already enough in most cases). The general discussion around DS and it's fairness has been covered in numerous other threads though so I'll leave it at that
- Nothing about your reply strikes me as wrong given my own experiences and what's reflected in the numbers above