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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735107#Comment_2735107
He did have some low quality survivors, but that wasn't my issue.
MMR is soft capped, Otz is always going to see SOME potatoes. The issue is he played 1 game with each killer. The outcomes are going to he inconsistent. Imagine playing deathslinger 100 games straight? Instead of the DC that snowballed him you're going to see the survivors who know how to W just demolish him.
Otz proved what we already know. A good killer is going to win some games, especially when they play as dirty as possible.
You knew that it's possible to win almost every game with SBMM? Good for you. I didn't, because I actually believed when devs said that SBMM will eliminate that. I guess I was naive to trust them.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735606#Comment_2735606
I really think at this point, the developers should start making the data public. It's obvious players want the data and it would clear up a lot of stuff on the forums.
I could care less about SBMMR as long as it's working. But I would love to see how often my team is escaping as a survivor and how many kills I'm making on average as killer.
Having to manual record every match is a pain, but if that's the only way I can see data... The developers should be giving us this data anyway. I mean it's not like we can't get it by just recording it ourselves.
They will never do it. Why would they want people to have concrete proof that matchmaking is trash?
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@AnchorTea said:
Dang is the community about to embark on a major DBD research? I'm totally all for that.
Judging from latest PTB and reaction to it, the community is about to embark playing other games :D
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735610#Comment_2735610
I agree with you and otz
That like he said if I camp and tunnel and run meta perks and play as sweaty as possible I can squeeze out a 3k average but why should I have to play to maximum tryhardness to even get a single kill vs a decent swf?
How is it fair that one game I can play hag with no perks and no add ons and stomp a team of solos at 5-4 gens in around 2-5 mins
Then the game immediately after I play with full meta perks and her strongest add ons
And it's a 4 man swf that sets off every trap as I'm carrying, knows to trigger it on the edge and runs the opposite direction, and flashlights every trap so I basically have no power
I agree with you that sbmm isn't working but one of the reasons it isn't working is because of how unbalanced this game is
Well, the Hag is really bad against coordinated SWF on comms. Not much you can do about it, other than not start a match if you suspect SWF. And now COH made it even harder for 110 killers like Hag.
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@Veinslay said:
I'm CST. I only play killer during prime hours now. This time of night has gotten a bad rep amongst killers because there's more SWFs, but if you're decent at the game, it's basically old matchmaking for five hours a night. It's great for me as long as those survivor queues stay long
interesting
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@Veinslay said:
As a killer main, it works more during off peak times than prime time for me. When I play in the morning or afternoon, I get meta efficient squad after squad but playing at like 6 - 9 pm when tons of survivors are on, I get way more inefficient solos, bad SWFs, and potatoes mixed in with the occasional bully squad. It's absolutely prioritizing keeping queue times down.
Same. What time zone are you in? My easiest killer matches are 8pm to midnight PST.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735591#Comment_2735591
I do watch and learn from him I probably have a similar kill rate as him
Expect I play slinger
Both him and true got stomped in their slinger games
I'm just saying to take his data and act like it's the norm for all killers is wack
His data is anything but the norm
It's what we would call outliers in statistics
Im not acting as if it's the norm for everybody. I'm acting as you can make it a norm for yourself if you try hard enough. Everyone will get stamped occasionally. It's all about the averages.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734568#Comment_2734568
Which honestly is the issue with all of these "experiments" being done by people hoping to prove all sorts of things on both sides. There is pretty much no variable control, so you are left with something that isn't at all repeatable or falsifiable (the hallmarks of an actual good experiment) and instead have done nothing but record anecdotal data to present as evidence.
I'm not trying to prove anything. Honestly, the conspiracy theorists in this thread are becoming exhausting. Both, 1.5 and 3 kill ratios show that SBMM is not working *for individuals*.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734705#Comment_2734705
Otz also has more hours played then anybody on these forums so :/
So the conclusion is... watch Otz and learn from him, then you'll also have Eazy time. I was losing most of my matches until I started watching Otz an True. Now I'm winning most, simply because I watched them and learned time management, tracking, looping, mind gaming and other basic technics from them.
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735543#Comment_2735543
I've got pretty much twice the data that you have, and it shows wildly different match results that you show. By your definition, my set of matches should be statistically significant as well and therefore meaningful (even though I'm making no such claims of my own).
I'm curious what conclusion you draw from that differing data.
I draw the same conclusion as before: while SBMM may work for some people, it fails for many others. If you are lucky to be at the MMR with many matches at that time of daya, than you may have balanced matches.
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@Kasamsky said:
We don't even need to argue that SBMM is not working, but these stats are not meaningful at all. Even just playing at different times at the day can change the results massively.
Statisticians disagree with you. Set of 100 is statistically significant and therefore meaningful. I'm tired of explaining what statistically significant sample size means. Google it if interested.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735513#Comment_2735513
You said in your OP that you play an average killer at best -- why would these stats show you play an average killer...? Something doesnt add up to the stats you provided. Either it's a brand new account or you dont play your best every game
I play my best every match, but not toxic. No slugging for 4k, no camping and no tunneling until 3 gens are done. My account is just over 2 year old and I play almost every day. You can disregard "average killer at best" because noone can determine that about themself and the only reason I said that is because that's how I felt by comparing myself to average twitch streamer, but I have no idea if twitch streamers are good representation of average.
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735497#Comment_2735497
I'd argue it's rarely happening for anyone at this point. As I stated earlier in this thread, I'm of the belief (without actual proof, obviously, just anecdotal evidence) that queue times are the primary factor in matchmaking. During one of the previous tests -- when someone with a presumed high SBMM rating like Dowsey -- would literally sit in a lobby waiting an hour to find a match, I think the devs adjusted things to keep that from happening, and queue times are prioritized over everything else as a result.
Again, that's an opinion. My "data" is that, during peak survivor times at night, when I play killer, I can play someone I'm presumably very good with (like Pig) and my lobby time is instantaneous. When I play a killer I never play and I get clobbered with regularly, I'm still getting instantaneous matches, and survivors whose skill level are pretty much no different than what I get as my "main". (Not EVERY match goes that way, but far more than not, leading me to believe that the rarer lobbies of lesser-skilled survivors I go against are simply happening randomly).
Same as survivor -- when playing for 4-5 hours during the peak periods (either as part of a SWF or a solo), the quality of the killer ranges from God-tier to complete potatoes to everything in between. The ONLY thing that stays consistent (since I've been actively keeping track of it as well) has been lobby wait time to find a match, which tends to differ by 15-30 seconds top from the longest to shortest times. suggesting that those times are determining who I/we are matched with, and NOT any SBMM ranking.
Yes. My experience is same. Time of Day is better predictor of match difficulty than anything else. Early evening hardest for killer. Then gets easier. By 10 pm it's mostly potatoes.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735497#Comment_2735497
Because you're most likely playing much better than you normally would just to prove a point when you're still not in high MMR. So you're playing better than your peers but your MMR wont catch up fast enough to matter
Nope. While sounds like a fun conspirathy theory, it's totally false. I'm not trying to prove any points. I'm trying to determine effectiveness of SBMM, that's all. All matches were played with same perks and same effort as before I started recording. I had feeling that SBMM wasn't working properly and at one point simply started recording data to verify the feeling. There is no conspiracy to trick you here, LOL :)
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735481#Comment_2735481
It all depends on the data that was recorded and how relevant that data is to the subject. For example if the OP believes hes in high MMR games then it makes perfect sense -- he recorded 100 high MMR games and these are the stats we see.
If hes not in high MMR games, which he almost exclusively confirms (by saying hes an average killer at best) then he just recorded 100 games of stats that are irrelevant to the subject
It doesn't matter what my MMR is. The point is that myself as well as many others, are not matched with opponents of equal skills.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
Some people are just not in high MMR games but think they are and so that skews the data.
What people think is irrelevant. We were told that SBMM would match us with people of equal skills, which clearly isn't happening for every one.
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@Labrac said:
If you're using kill rates as a metric to evaluate SBMM being balanced or not, the devs latest stats showed a 53% kill rate. Pretty sure their sample is way bigger than your 4 Trapper games.
Average for all players doesn't tell us anything about quality of SBMM. We were told that *individuals* will be matched with people of equal skills, which is clearly not happening. It's completely irrelevant for individual experience what the average across all players is. If one player gets 4k 100% of time, while another person with equal number of matches gets 0k 100% of time, their average will be 2k, so by your logic this would be perfect SBMM, which is obviously not true.
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@gilgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734856#Comment_2734856
I'll take that as a no
He said that he can do his "qualitative and quantitative scrutiny" based on 5 matches. I'm literally trying my hardest not to laugh aloud so I don't wake up my family. Pure comedy 🤣
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734771#Comment_2734771
If you read the thread you'd see my answer to this.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734756#Comment_2734756
No, he does not. You are commentating on a very small sample size of games he recorded and analyzed. In several matches he got very lucky with a bunch of suiciding potatoes, and in a larger sample size those become the minority, not the norm. And does that mean you admit that one of the best killers in the game has to play incredibly sweaty or they're at risk of being steamrolled? I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to portray the realities of this game inaccurately. The point of having video data for a LARGE sample size is to be able to do qualitative and quantitative scrutiny, this isn't hard.
"You are commentating on a very small sample size of games he recorded and analyzed." - well, yes! As I said before, he is not tryharding in his streams, so there is nothing else to look at other than this specific video.
"In several matches he got very lucky with a bunch of suiciding potatoes" - that's the whole point of MMR: eliminate matches where you get "lucky" with potatoes. And that's why I'm saying it's not working.
"And does that mean you admit that one of the best killers in the game has to play incredibly sweaty or they're at risk of being steamrolled?" You are missing the point. I'm not discussing playstyles. I'm discussing MMR, that we were told supposed to pair sweaty killers with sweaty survivors.
"I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to portray the realities of this game inaccurately." - lol, lean off your conspiracy theory. I'm not "trying to portray" anything. I collect data and I present my interpretation of it. There is nothing more to it. Just to be clear: the point of discussion is not survivor vs. killer. The question I'm trying to answer is "does MMR work"
"The point of having video data for a LARGE sample size is to be able to do qualitative and quantitative scrutiny, this isn't hard." - not sure what you are implying here. 100 is statistically significant. https://tools4dev.org/resources/how-to-choose-a-sample-size/ You keep being evasive in your answers.
"qualitative and quantitative scrutiny" - LOL, you keep doing it :D Working for a marketing department? Let me try that too:
We should create a distributed analysis by proactively enabling synergistic statistical approach leading to big picture revealing mathematical realities of SBMM, this isn't hard.
You like me talking your language?
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734741#Comment_2734741
Well, now we understand where your issue is. You have a misinformed view of the game and streamers. Otz does not steamroll every match. He has multiple matches where survivors walk all over him.
He does steamroll every match when he plays to the maximum of his ability with sweaty builds. Watch his video. He had 3.85 kills average and not a single gate escape. If that is not steamroll, I don't know what its. Just to be clear: I wasn't talking about his regular streams, where he is being nice and tries not to tunnel and doesn't stack gen regression perks.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734720#Comment_2734720
The ability for people to survive, or for killers to secure kill, is entirely dependent on having redeemable qualities that lead to these outcomes.
How the hell did you respond to my comment while completely missing the point? I don't need to watch all 100 games, but I could certainly watch 5-10 and draw some conclusions about both the quality of the data gatherer, their opponents, and the efficacy of MMR.
Yikes.
I apologize if I missed the point, but tbh, the way you speak, it's easy to miss. I have no idea what you mean by "dependent on having redeemable qualities". What are redeemable qualities and why do they matter?
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@KayTwoAyy said:
While 100 games is a decent number for any person to play, its really not that many for determining MMR when you're only playing a killer for 4-5 games, on average.
Even if there is a weighted MMR system, where your General MMR will passively effect your Killer-Specific MMR, constantly playing new killers is going to slow the rate at which you rank up.
Either way, I think we can all agree that the MMR system is too unsophisticated to be any real indication of a person's skill and ability to win. That, or their back-end system cares more about correctly predicting the outcome of a trial than providing an evenly matched one.
I don't really understand what you are saying. I've had the game for 2 years and MMR system was collecting data for month before it was turned on. I don't "rank up". I stay at the same rank all the time. Also, it's not even about me. Otz has been playing it like a job and you can't say that MMR doesn't have anough data on him. He steamrolls every match.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734720#Comment_2734720
That's not quite correct about MMR only looking at escape and deaths. It's true that whether a survivor dies or escapes determines if a killer's MMR goes up or down respectively and vice versa for the survivor. But how much the MMR goes up or down supposedly depends on other factors, including the relative ratings of the players, the order the player died (i.e. the first death has more weight than later deaths since once one survivor dies it makes it easier to kill a second survivor, etc), and I think the length of time it took to kill a player. The MMR doesn't just go up or down a set amount every match, it varies depending on the scenario.
Yes, all true. But what does it have to do with survivor qualities? I'm not arguing that it's not important, I just don't understand why it matters. Please explain.
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@Murgleïs said:
So you don’t ever play killer and you have good stats on your little sample size when you tried it, woah. Interesting conclusions.
Also talking about Otz who plays the game as a job, 10 hours a day, could draw each map with each totem + palet + gen location by memory as as if he is the average killer lmao. Sure.
LOL what? Those are my killer matches and I'm 90% killer. 100 sample size is considered to be statistically significant: https://tools4dev.org/resources/how-to-choose-a-sample-size/
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734660#Comment_2734660
None of my teammates tonight have had over 200 hours, i am suffering
Stop torturing yourself. The only way to enjoy survivor is SWF. Join DBD Discord and you will have no problem finding good teammates.
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@foxsansbox said:
I wish the people who recorded these stats kept video logs so we could view the quality of their opponents.
No one would want to watch 100 matches. Besides, MMR is only evaluating deaths and escapes, so any other qualities are irrelevant.
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@Jay_Whyask said:
I don't understand why the masks are being removed at all.🤔
If there's enough evidence to support the fact that racists are tunneling, camping, being racist in chat, and trying to dress as offensive as possible, why are we getting rid of 4 cosmetics instead of banning the racists? Removing the masks won't hurt the racists, it'll just empower them because they got a strong reaction.
That's because racism card is just a smoke screen. And the real reason they are removing them is to increase revenue from paid Cannibal skins. They've known how some use the faces for over 3 years (evidence in first post), but chose not to act until they added paid skins to Cannibal. Nothing changed in those 3 years. The only variable that is different is paid skins. But Kens and Karens will defend bhvr any way. Chads will switch to new games come this spring. Dying Light 2 and Elden Rings are coming within the next 2 month. When company becomes too greedy, they lose customers. Epic games giveaway shows just how desperate they are for new cash cows.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
If BHVR aren’t concerned that some of their game’s most dedicated supporters are telling them that they feel their feedback is completely ignored, then there is no hope for this company.
Yes. Otz is not just a "dedicated supporter". He is a fog whisperer. He said that PTB is such trash that he is probably not even going to try it.
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@Veinslay said:
Why would he be upset about the patch? I thought he could win with no perks/addons and AFKing no problem ez pz
He answers that question in the video. But I guess it's too much to ask that people watch the video that they are commenting on.
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@Sepex said:
I love how people automatically assume streamers are somehow better than everyone else.
I love how you assume that people automatically assume that streamers are somehow better than everyone else.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
It would be good faith to give us 500. 1600 is absurd.
But whatever, 6k shards is... Well, that is what we get. It could have been nothing and they are the types where we should have expected nothing. So I guess we should count our blessings.
Yep, most will thank them for the bones that bhvr throws them from their table. Luckily, a lot of good games are coming out this year. Dying Light 2 is just a month away.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732226#Comment_2732226
"You can search this forum and see for yourself that this was widely talked about topic since 2018."
By players who already bought bubba, not part of the ad. That was your argument.
"Killers are unhappy about stuff that they owned being taken away with laughable compensation. When people are unhappy they leave. And your queue is going to get longer."
It's a brown cosmetic that is a recolor. Pretty sure last time I checked people really disliked recolors of skins. Now you're getting something that can get you a custom made item or even custom made skin that isnt recolored at all, and yet you're complaining about that. You're getting objectively an upgrade. And you're still complaining. It's not gonna change gameplay, it didnt cost you any money, and you didnt buy Bubba for the masks. Yet you claim that Bubba's free cosmetic masks are as integral to Bubba as a kitchen sink is to a kitchen? That's such a weak argument that I could let a 2 year old give you better logic.
A full skin as replacement isnt rightfully yours. Heck, if we're gonna talk about things that are rightfully yours, you dont even OWN the character.
Yeah, that's right, you own a license to USE the character. If the license holder demands that license back from you, they are not even required to compensate you for it, because you dont own the character. The license is just proof of the monetary compensation you gave to use the license untill that license expires or is retracted.
If you're gonna be "claiming what's rightfully yours", I could try to contact the license holders to take away your specific Bubba license without any compensation, just to prove to you that you cannot legally claim back that license. I'm not gonna do that, because 1. I dont care and 2. even if I cared, they are not gonna withold a license just to prove a point, but legally, you never owned the masks. You merely hold a user license.
This is why you can still play Demo, because the user license is not affected by Netflix' license withdrawal. But Netflix does have legal footings to also withdraw that user license if they wished, meaning you could lose Demogorgon entirely if Netflix decided to revoke it.
Yet even with all that, BHVR still decided to add compensation. They werent required to, they werent even obligated to. I'm not licking boots for scraps, I know my rights, you dont know yours.
Hey Ken, you are confusing copyright ownership and in game ownership. Please, just stop your strawman arguments. No one is arguing here about what is required or obligated. No one is arguing about licenses and copyrights here. No one is arguing about right here. What I'm saying is what I believe is justice. And you are free to have different beliefs. You can argue until you are blue about what other people should be satisfied with but at the end each one decides for himself. If you are happy with shards, please, by all means, goooooo enjoooooooooy yourself. No one is trying to convince you here that you shouldn't be happy. But many people are unhappy. It's a fact. Check reddit if you don't believe me.. Therefore I offered a solution that I believe would make more people happy.
This is off topic, but... please don't even mention "rights". Why do you think you have any at all? Many rights that you enjoy were not given voluntarily. They were fought for and demanded by people who were not satisfied with boot licking.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732246#Comment_2732246
I'm very skeptical that this had any influence on BHVR's decision. Generally, players that will not buy cosmetics cannot be convinced to spend money on cosmetics, and players that will spend money on cosmetics will do so freely on whatever appeals to them. There isn't an awful lot of overlap between the two groups and you can't squeeze money out of a stone, so to speak; there's little point in trying. And even if the survivor faces had an impact on Bubba's sales, they only covered his face slot. I was going to say the other two slots only had paid options anyway, except he's got the same free prestige outfit that everyone else does, mask included, so... ????
This take sounds... pretty conspiracy-theory-y. It seems way easier to assume they did this to shut down controversy than as an evil master plan to make you buy Pretty Lady Bubba.
"players that will not buy cosmetics cannot be convinced to spend money on cosmetics, and players that will spend money on cosmetics will do so freely on whatever appeals to them." - I'll need a source for that. Something more credible than your own feeling.
On the other hand, we've got some locked sets where it was proven that the only possible reason for that is greed. So... There is that.
See, people were talking about blackface for over 3 years. On this forum. Do you really believe its just a coincidence that action was taken only after paid cosmetic was added? LOL :) Do you need a bridge by the way?
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732102#Comment_2732102
The irishards can buy you:
- 3 perks on the shrine of secrets, without having to buy the character(s) themself
- Covers 2/3rds of an entire original character, the month of december alone added 1/3rd already, meaning if you havent spend it, you have an entire character for free
- 1 entire yellow outfit, 2 grey outfits, 1 green item, 3 yellow items, 6 grey items. Bubba's masks were grey items. That means you basically get 2 grey items for free. "but those are just recolors" Guess what? So are Bubba's masks.
People here claiming that BHVR is greedy, when demanding an entire CUSTOM MADE outfit to compensate for free recolors.
- I already have all perks.
- I already have all characters.
- Fine. Then give me ability to buy 1 entire yellow outfit, 2 grey outfits, 1 green item, 3 yellow items, 6 grey items for Cannibal. Oh, wait! You want $$ for those? That's were we have a problem.
Greedy, because they took away the ONLY freely unlockable outfits and replaced them with paid ones. Did you know that you can search this forum and see that there were threads about black face bubba being racist all the way back in 2018? But those were ignored... Because Bubba didn't have any paid cosmetics at that time.... Until... Wait for it... Paid cosmetics were added to Cannibal. Think about it. If that still doesn't sound even slightly suspicious to you, than there is nothing else I can say to help you.
Edit: added link to 2018 thread
@EnviouSLAY said:
I find it kind of upsetting that the cannibal is able to unlock claudettes face as a cosmetic. I understand he is able to do so with the entire original 4 survivors; but being able to wear claudettes face is actually pretty problematic. We already deal with a lot of toxicity in the community, especially racism/homophobia, so the fact that there is a white killer that is able to actually paint his face black (african american) as a cosmetic is pretty messed up. I don't think this should be a cosmetic in the game still, it was an interesting idea for cosmetics you can unlock via achieving a certain about of kills on a certain survivor, but at the end of the day this is appropriating toxic/racist behavior especially by killers who troll afterwords and use racial slurs.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732091#Comment_2732091
Where in the ad around Bubba are the masks included? Pretty sure 100% of players found out about the masks being free AFTER purchasing Bubba.
So to correct your argument: "It's like selling a kitchen and giving the customers free cookies after the sale has been completed, then removing those cookies because people have been using those cookies to vandalize windows, where you're now compensated with something that has a value of 2/3rds of an ENTIRELY NEW KITCHEN and infact will cover ALL THE PARTS OF THAT KITCHEN if you dont like that specific kitchen"
The masks were never the selling point of bubba, your argument is invalid.
Look Ken, if you are going to make up stuff, at least try to make it a liiiiiiitttle believable. How do you know this: "Pretty sure 100% of players found out about the masks being free AFTER purchasing Bubba."? You can search this forum and see for yourself that this was widely talked about topic since 2018. You can continue making your silly examples, but the point is... Killers are unhappy about stuff that they owned being taken away with laughable compensation. When people are unhappy they leave. And your queue is going to get longer.
There are people who will lick boots for any scraps given. And there are people who will demand what they believe is rightfully theirs. It's your choice.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2732069#Comment_2732069
Lower your expectations to zero because that’s what you deserve.
Skipped math classes or just too young to have them? You can't lower to zero from something that is below zero.
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@bm33 said:
They were free cosmetics you earned through playtime (sacrificing survivors) so it makes sense you'd be compensated with currency you'd earn through playtime (iridescent shards). If the masks were available to purchase for auric cells in store instead of just spending the time playing the game then it would make sense to give out auric cells.
That would be a valid argument if Cannibal had any skins that could be bought with the currency that we are given compensation in.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/303315/how-about-1600-auric-cells
Ah yes, because those skins also cost you auric cells to get.
Wait, what? It's not? You could get them for free? Oh, there goes your argument.
This is a total Karen argument. This is like having a 20% coupon on a 100$ item, paying only 80$ for it, and expecting 100$ back when you return it. No Karen, you paid 80$, you'll get 80$ back.
"That would prove people that it's not just a greedy cash grab plot to make people spend money on paid skins."
Cosmetics literally exist as revenue for the developers. How is that a greedy cash grab? You dont need skins to win. Skins do not give you any significant advantage in the game and are more likely than not to be a detriment. Players choose to pay for those skins. None of that is greedy by any means.
That's a total Ken argument. It's like selling kitchen with kitchen sink included for free. Then removing kitchen sink after the sale with compensation of free concert ticket and asking to pay for new kitchen sink.
No Ken, I bought your kitchen because you advertised free sink and the concert ticket is not an acceptable substitute, even if it has same value.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
Lower your expectations. To zero. Then realize what they are giving us is pretty nifty.
My expectation of BHVR are already below zero. They still manage to prove that they are too high. That's why I said "one can dream".
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I'm killer main and can help with that too. I play all killers almost equally, except Billy.
"It is painful to go down in like 20s" - I know that feeling :[
Platform: PC
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Do you have a microphone?
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2711232#Comment_2711232
Once again. I didn't say it was good system, far from it. Just that it does indeed work how they describe it.
It doesn't work like that at the moment. It used to work like that before Epic giveaway. Now, no matter how matches I throw, I still get the same killers. What works is time of day.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2711169#Comment_2711169
You're missing the point.
Let me try to explain this differently with a hypothetical. Lets say I played a whopping 20 games each of every killer. Lets go to the extreme and say I 4k'd every match with half the roster and the other half I didn't kill anyone with no in between. This in turn would average out to a 2k for my overall.
Would it be okay for me to then say MMR works great because my overall average is a 2k? Again, hypothetically.
Of courser not.
- If each killer averages 2k, than the average of all killers will be 2k.
- However, we can't infer inverse. If average of all killers is 2k, that doesn't mean that each killer is 2k.
- But, If average of all is not 2k, than each killer is also not 2k.
It seems like you are thinking that I claim (2), which is incorrect. I claim (3).
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2711143#Comment_2711143
Accept if you're going by that then it'd be okay for me to always 4k with Spirit because I always 0k with Huntress thus a 2k average. That would mean MMR is working by that logic but that's not how this MMR works.
Except you will not have average 4k awith Spirit and 0k with Huntress because you said yourself "the average kill should be two for each killer". I'm not adding anything new, just using your own words.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2711042#Comment_2711042
Yes, the average kill should be two for each killer. As in separate, not total together. BHVR isn't trying to make MMR where you have an average of 2k with all your killers combined but instead that you have an average of 2k with each killer individually.
Because of that you need to take each killers W/L as a separate value. If you're going to then try to do averages of W/L then 1-2 games simply isn't enough data to hold any kind of value.
I'm not sure how else I can explain it.
If you have average kill rate with each killer 2, than you have average killer rate with all killers 2. That's how math works.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710996#Comment_2710996
No I didn't and I don't know what your point is. I'm not trying to argue whether MMR works great or doesn't. I said OP's data wasn't worth anything because there is separate MMR for each killer. Pulsar then said it amounts to nothing if separate MMR does exist which in my experience isn't true as far as playing multiple killers over time go. Experienced people playing new killers works differently and that should be tweaked.
So again, my main point is that while OP's data is fun to look at, it doesn't mean anything when trying to argue that MMR does or doesn't work as they only played a couple games with most killers. If they had done 50 games with a single killer and had similar results then that would be much better in trying to prove their point.
You are still not explaining why it's less valid when you mix killers. It doesn't matter if my MMR is higher or lower with some killers. What matters is that we were told that the average kill rate should be 2.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710929#Comment_2710929
Did you miss the part where he said that he got matched with the same exact people
Even if there was a average that either means one of 2 things
1: the brackets are large asf and mass people get grouped together
Or 2: by average they mean it's within 50-200 of your best killer which still sucks ass
I wouldn't take anything they say about this mmr too seriously or as a fact
They went on for years saying this was gonna be a grand system that was more complex then kills and escapes
Then boom 2 years later and what is it based on oh that's right kills and escapes truly revolutionary
Yep. And they only admitted about how basic the SBMM system after someone datamined and leaked that info.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710904#Comment_2710904
If there is, it matters very little.
I played a game as Nemesis, someone who I have put a considerable amount of time into and I got a good 4 man. They definitely pushed me to play my best.
I BOUGHT Freddy after that game. I had never played him before. I didn't even level him up. I queued for a match and was nearly instantly put into a lobby with the same 4 people.
I also did this with Pig on a separate day.
Yep. I can confirm this. Same experience. I consistently matched with people of same skill with my best and worst killers.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Mmr only effectively works for survivors, killers are placed wherever mm needs them to be whether it be up or down.
Doesn't even work as survivor. Just tried one match and got matched with Spirit with 9200 hours of experience... In solo queue. And I'm barely able to play survivor.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2710844#Comment_2710844
Which kind of brings up a more baffling question: what purpose is it serving for BHVR to hide MMR? We're pretty much all assuming it doesn't work or sucks anyway at this point. We can't give effective feedback on something we can't really prove exists. If they at least showed us our MMR, we could tell them "hey, these matchmaking conditions don't really work when this range is used" etc. But they have it set up so we can't tell if it's even on half the time and everyone is pissed off anyway.
My guess is the purpose of hiding it is that they know it doesn't work and they can't fix it, so they just don't want you to know and complain that it doesn't.