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@Laluzi said:
Definitely pick the Wraith on the left. I like his vibes. Cool guys don't look at cowboy-turned-WWE wrestlers.
I was asking if I should pick wraith on the left or wraith on the right.
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While noone here can change how matchmaking works for you, I'm sure there are plenty of people who could give you some advices how you can improve. Would you consider posting couple videos of your matches?
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@Saitamfed said:
I don't understand it either, the fun of the game is basically interacting with the killer or mates. As a survivor I like to run from tile to tile, that makes me prone to go down, but the idea is to go down eventually. So yes, I could make the killer chase me for 10 min straight until every generator is powered but what's the fun in that? It seems that everyone plays the most "efficient" way but forget about the fun aspect.
I'm same. Fully agree with you here. It feels like some people put winning above having fun. Why would anyone other than streamers that get paid for being "good" and winning do that? I stopped watching those tryhards. Otzdarva is mostly fun because he is "let's try this fun build", instead of "let's stack those 3 gen slowdowns". And on survivor side, I want to watch "strong loop build" instead of "strong genrush build"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkFbpq7jlqY -
@OldHunterLight said:
I came back from a 1 month break, 4 matches today, 16 dead hards all pre droppers and using dh for distance, SO FUN!!!!
DBD is boring and will continue this path honestly
Yes, it's a sad realization unfortunately.
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@DangerScouse said:
Because they are entitled and think the game should all be about them.
I honestly don't understand what you mean.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2751843#Comment_2751843
I would
I've been facecamped and tunneled at 5 gens all day yesterday. I've faced more Alch Ring Blight than I have in the past 3 months. I've dealt with the most Toolboxes + Prove Thyself than I ever have since Anniversary, etc. Everyone begins trying to speed run for some ungodly reason and it's so ######### tiring.
Sounds like you are not having fun and it might be time to find another game. Dying Light 2 comes out in 3 weeks. I preordered that one. Elder Ring in 2 months. I think fun depends on objectives. To me it's chases. If I'm facecamped, I just suicide and move onto next math. It's not worth my time to just hang and do nothing. If it's not me being camped, I just go for suicide unhook. Winning is hollow if it's just waste of my time.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Events bring out the worst in both sides and it's so tiring
I wouldn't go as far as saying "worst". To me it's just boring. I'm not saying people doing something wrong. I'm just trying to understand what's the reasoning.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2751823#Comment_2751823
I don't understand it either, I am a survivor main and to me chases are the fun part of the match (unless the killer is Trickster), not pressing M1 for 5 minutes on gens. I would rather die having several awesome chases with no gens done than rush gens as if the killer is AFK.
I don't get how that is entertaining either
I get a feeling that some people would prefer AFK killer. BP with no effort and they get to "win". Calm sitting on gens. I don't get it, but to each his own. I'm same: would rather have no gens, but fun. And when I'm killer, I'd rather have 0k and fun chases, than 4k and looking for blendettes in bushes or follow another ShiftW.
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@Yankus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2751823#Comment_2751823
idk it's either gen rush or someone always ends up getting camped/tunneled out. The game is in an awful state for both sides atm
So, you are saying that killer interaction is not as fun to you as just sitting and hitting skill checks on gens?
To me it doesn't feel awful, but's that is IMHO. I have fun if I get fun chases. If I spend time looking for survivors not in chase, or M1 on gen not in chase, that's boring to me, because it's just a chore. To each his own, so it's all cool.
Edit: Would you prefer it even more if killer was AFK? Everyone gets to escape even sooner, right?
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@Yankus said:
Me and my SWF gen rush asap, we do sub 5 minute games every time we don't care
But why? Where is the entertainment value in it? Just to be clear, I'm not saying you are wrong or anything, I'm just trying to understand.
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@WesCravenFan said:
I have a dream that one day people will realize that there are some Survivors that don't enjoy looping. We exist.
I didn't know. People can't realize that without asking others, right? What do you enjoy and why?
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@espooked said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2751775#Comment_2751775
you are whining the game is boring because survivors are holding w.... huh? that's what I am referring to, lets just let everyone do what they want. who cares :)
I care, that's why I ask the question. if you don't care, why are you here? Why are you whining about me asking a simple question? I already said that everyone is free to do what they want, so what exactly are you arguing about? I'm also free to ask why they are doing it.
Or are you saying that some people are free to do what they want. But other people are not free to ask questions that they want? Are you you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
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@espooked said:
Some people have fun doing that. Stop sh!tting on players for the way they like to play. Isn't it "boring" to camp? but at the end of the day, the killer never cares if the other side is bored. Everyone play how they want 😄
LOL, why you getting so worked up? Is simple question about why gameplay is boring today somehow "shitting"? I just want a surv that does it tell me why, that's all. Camping is also boring. So, you can go ahead and ask killers that do it why they do it. Both are perfectly valid winning styles in tournaments. I'm not asking anyone to play how they don't want. I'm asking why they want it today and not yesterday.
Geez, can't even ask as simple question here without someone getting all offended and upset like a baby.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2751735#Comment_2751735
Oh, I thought it was because of the event. Apparently people go hard on these. I had just had a basement challenge to do myself, but I figure there are a lot of people who like to deny rewards in the game. The winter event made that very obvious to me.
But why people go hard on these. I just don't see any reason. It seems like everyone can get lots of BP even without sweating.
I also had killers today who would not leave their first hook area even when no gens are done. I just don't get it.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
To be fair, they are probably running into killers like me, so you know, now they are all on edge and ready to deal with a tournament style killer.
They are running into killers like you just today? Because even yesterday it wasn't like this.
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@BenZ0 said:
yup having the same problem here, its getting tiresome.
Yep, tiresome is the word. I get complete babies that don't even look behind. They do nothing other than sit on gens, but they do it so diligently, that it starts to feel like that's entire point of gameplay and killer getting hooks is just a temporary break from M1.
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Tbags.
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You answered your own question. You are in the wrong for not ignoring chat messages. Either grow thicker skin or close the chat window.
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Okay, and? What's the point of your rant? Do you feel like every survivor will come here, read what you have to say and then change their playstyle?
You have basically 2 choices here:
- Complain about solo queue, which is like old man screaming at the sky.
- Join SWF.
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Sounds like you are new. Welcome to DBD. Anger and frustration is what this game is about.
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Blight with stacked gen slowdown. May as well give up.
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Not if you like winning.
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"I like the fun of mind gaming my opponent and with Nurse the only thing to do is double back or hold W." If that's the only way that you know to mindgame nurse, you have lots to learn. How dare they make a killer that requires survivors to use a bit of brains.
Btw, stats show that Nurse has lowest kill ration of all killers. :D
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@StarLost said:
Because it's bloody hard to detect in a way that won't punish people for having crappy internet.
I do wish that all we had to do was report obvious lag switchers, but aside from 'moderate your damn game better and don't force us to record all our games and go through a lengthy, unintuitive report process', there isn't much more that can be done/
It's not a "punishment" if people who don't have required specs can't play. All software has minimum specs. It's matter of setting and enforcing them. Look at the Steam page for the game where it lists minimum requirements and see the part that says Broadband Internet connection. Are people who have less than 8Gb of ram or don't have DX11 video card being "punished"? I don't think so.
On the other hand, people who are forced to watch others teleport around the map are being punished through no fault of their own by something that is out of their control.
MINIMUM:
- Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
- OS: Windows 10 64-bit Operating System
- Processor: Intel Core i3-4170 or AMD FX-8120
- Memory: 8 GB RAM
- Graphics: DX11 Compatible GeForce GTX 460 1GB or AMD HD 6850 1GB
- DirectX: Version 11
- Network: Broadband Internet connection
- Storage: 50 GB available space
- Sound Card: DX11 compatible
- Additional Notes: With these requirements, it is recommended that the game is played on Low quality settings.
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@liquidlight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2743725#Comment_2743725
Excellent point. 🤣 I wonder if everyone played their best/hardest what the game would be like. Probably some twisted version of hell but each torment session just lasts 1 to 5 minutes and is just a straight up crush-fest to one side.
Otz did an experiment recently playing sweatiest he could and that is exactly how matches looked like. SBMM is trash and he constantly dominated in every single match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acHiwnCW7eI&t=4sThere is also this one who had 478 4k streak on Demogorgon. Another example of SBMM perfection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrsu73jxW68 -
@Heartbound said:
If you're going to wreck a team, take the time to hook them between downs. Smell the roses. Enjoy the game. Those kind of games aren't worth the points you get out of them, even if queue times are instant imo.
He isn't doing it for points though. He is doing it for $, that his audience brings him.
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SWF } Killer } Solo
SWF and Solo are 2 different games. You can't put those in the same category
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I'm sad. Why did you have to do it? Now I can't blame being DH validated as killer solely on laggy survivors :( Although, it's still partially their fault :)
JK. Well done! Thanks for taking time to research this!
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736414#Comment_2736414
I don't think my rig could deal with that very well, the game has become very hard to play for me from a technical point of view since my rig is quite outdated. All I got is a graphics card with 2 GB VRAM, meanwhile you need twice as much just to play games nowadays. And I can't even upgrade since my mainboard is a DDR3 one. I do have ample of regular RAM, though, (16 GB) but that doesn't really make a difference.
The consequence are several stutters and freezes which seriously hinder my ability to keep up with survivors. My framerate caps out at 30 pretty much, most of the time it's below that. I already tried all the tricks with lowering the graphic settings and going as far to diddle around with the config file itself but it didn't help. The constant visual updates are making the game almost unplayable for me.
Yes, framerate is super helpful in getting easier wins. One trick you may try is to lower resolution below your monitor native, for example to 720p. Change it in Windows settings before starting the game.
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@Canas said:
Meanwhile 75% of my killermatches are wins for the survivors and plain suffering on my end. The system is definitely broken, I'm far off from this 50-50 balance they're aiming for.
If you can, please post a link to video of your average suffering match. I'm sure plenty of people here could give you some tips. I would surely watch it and would try to help you as much as I can.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736151#Comment_2736151
The other thing to be cautious about with this type of data is how its interpreted with respect to SBMM.
As a measure of SBMM there is only one consistant variable, you. There is no other data available about your opponents SBMM or even accurate measure of your own given the value is hidden. This creates a good data set with respect to your games but is a form of pseudo-replication on a larger scale because its confined by your personal SBMM and skill.
That means with respect to SBMM there is an N of 1 or a single consistent variable being measured which is you. So basically a single data point is unrealiable for broader interpretation.
What we can say from data like this though is that specifically in your match ups there is an over perfomance of killer. With the un-transformed numbers just looking at it I'd say you are sitting about 0.75 from a basic average calculation (Wins 4k+3K / Total games).
Its probably a significant trend given the numbers, how strong it is will be attenuated by sample size.
What can be gained from data like this,
- You do well as killer for a good range of killers, you've got the empirical data to show it too so Kudos to you. With respect to SBMM its probably not matching you as well as it could given the winning skew. However given the asymetric nature of the game and the reliance on teamwork from one side, a killer victory skew should be expected as the mechanics of killer are more consistant when compared to the variable nature of teamwork required on the survivor side. This is purely theorising but its what I'd expect so I wouldn't call a killer win skew unusual unless it was really skewed (>0.75).
- Unfortunately we don't have whether or not your opponents were teams or solos which is a confounding factor on perfomance. If you can get that info post game then its very valuable as I'd predict teams will positively/negatively drive win/loss ratio by a significant amount. The interaction co-efficient between these measures would be interesting as BHVR reported a 15% increase in wins by SWF.
- The game is not survivor sided, again however this doesn't mean its killer sided either, just with respect to you at your measured SBMM killer overperforms. You can draw conclusions from this but its very narrow and any suggestions on side bias, or buffs/nerfs, are spurious at best with this limitation.
- It adds value to your personal experience. For example "I get more kills than expected the SBMM may not be matching me well" here is my raw numbers to illustrate why I think this. That is valuable because end user experience is a big part of gaming.
What would make this data more valuable for wider interpretation.
100 players tracking 100 games each. Now you remove the pseudo-replication and have a nested measure of win/loss across killers, across players, across SBMM this is the minimum required to make any real suggestions about broader game balance. Taking into account relative SBMM rating and SWF would make it even more valuable.
How could you analyse this data to demostrate you are significantly overperforming as killer and make a solid point about your gameplay?
If we have an expected outcome of 2K/2E or 0.5 then you would compare your observed outcomes win/loss ratio against an expected 0.5 for each killer. A chi square analysis of observed vs expected would give you this. It can be calculated by hand if you are that commited and there are free online calculators where you just punch in the numbers and it will spit out your result, not the most accurate but hey its just for fun. This will tell you if your observed values are signifcantly greater than an expect balanced outcome based on sample size.
I know this is an essay but I just finished pulling apart my behavioural ecology invertebrate data consisting of about 2500 cells of data points nested across 7 field sites. A think tank exercise on game data interpretation was a bit of fun.
Cheers its my mouse hand so its really gimping my gaming.
Thank you for another informative post Professor Pseudechis. I didn't expect to learn about Chi test today. So, I followed this description of test here https://support.google.com/docs/answer/7004263?hl=en
I don't pretend I fully understand it. But it looks like it needs 2 arrays: observed data and expected data. So I compared J column with 0.5. I had to add fake data in blue rows that had no data because I was getting error, so I added fake 4k and fake 0k in each. And the number I get is not what I expected. If I understand correctly, 1 is fair and 0 is not fair. I think I'm doing something wrong, but not sure what.
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"he’s 14 and didn’t need the bullying"
Now you made me curious at what age people start needing bullying.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736124#Comment_2736124
Instead of masks why not make his weapon out of things from the survivors? Kill bunch of Megs get a hammer made out of sneakers, bunch of Claudettes get hammer made out of flower pots, bunch of Kate's get a guitar to hit people with, bunch of Bills get a giant cigarette. 😂
Because they want you to spend $$ on paid cosmetics. Free unlocks reduce revenue.
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@Vampirox said:
I wish people who do these win/lose logs posted their build.
Not a problem! But it's pretty standard no imagination "sweat" build for most killers. BBQ for BP on everyone. Most of time I experiment with something fun, I get punished for it. Which one do you want the build for?
My main: (Cannibal) BBQ, Bamboozle, POP, Pain Resonance
Newly favorite Twins: BBQ, Pain Resonance, Pentimento, Plaything
Fun Nurse: BBQ, Ruin, Pentimento, Plaything
Mean pickaboo Spirit: BBQ, Discordance, POP, Pain Resonance
Anti-SWF Nemesis: BBQ, STBFL, Pop, Tinkerer
and so on. As you can see it's all plenty ordinary and boring. One of perks is swapped to Franklins if more than 2 medkits.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736160#Comment_2736160
I only had to go so far as until you stopped defending your faulty conclusion (If that's what you truly mean by your last response, I'm sure further posts will tell). I have a kink for not letting people get away with misinformation and bad-faith statistics :)
There are plenty of forums where you can discuss your kinks and feeling. This is not one of them. This is my last response to you. I gave you plenty of chances to stay on topic. Since you clearly have troubles understanding forum rules, I will not encourage your threadcrapping by further replies. Now, feel free to type another (or a few) parrot reply providing more details about how you are upset and how you feel about me.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736108#Comment_2736108
No matter how much you keep parroting it, my posts have always been about you using faulty interpretations to draw incorrect conclusions, and that will always be on topic in this thread.
Why don't you follow your own advice and stop parroting how much you are upset about my interpretation and conclusions. I'm pretty sure everyone got it after the first 5 times you said it and you are not adding anything new, other than adding more details to description of your feeling.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736070#Comment_2736070
I also don't get your W/L column. If its a win loss ratio given a win % then values should fall between 0 and 1. Also the raw data may not transform well given the sample size you'd probably want to transformn your win/loss percentage data for overall assessment.
Also forgive typing errors I have a broken hand.
Thank you. I converted win/loss column into percentages and also added a chart of matches with given number of kills. You right, percentages are better than ratios. I'm still amazed that we have such helpful and knowledgeable people here. I hope your hand health soon.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2736019#Comment_2736019
- You don't know what threadcrapping is, well, not if you truly believe that's what I'm doing. Anyone can count the opinions on the first two pages, whether or not you are able to. Yes, you are throwing a lot of insults, including assuming I'm upset, gollum references, and flat earther references. I don't know why you're trying so hard when it seems that you have little interest in anything beyond your own confirmation bias. The beauty of confirmation bias is you do not need our opinion to go on being wrong. You simply go on.
v. Thread crapping occurs when a person comes into a thread and posts something contrary to the spirit/intent of the thread, often derailing the discussion or turning it into an argument."Making off-topic posts in a thread on a message board."
Determining that someone is upset when someone is acting like he is upset is not an insult. There are plenty of threads where people discuss how anything DBD related makes them feel. Feel free to create another one, but this thread is not about your feeling.
Please, just follow the forum rules. Do you have anything to add on topic other than discussing your feeling?
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@pseudechis said:
Your interpretation of the data is counfounded by a few issues.
Firstly you have a heavy skew toward one end which will inflate total avergae in this case, median kill rate is probably a better measure for the overall kill rate rather than mean. There is also a lot of internal variance (especially sample size) amongst your descrete variable (killers) which will also increase error around the mean and reduce the accuracy of average.
For error reduced mean you'd want to log transform the data and take the transformed mean as this will give a more accurate measure of mid range. Looking at the numbers it will probably still fall on the killer side but likely not so inflated.
This is the problem with interpreting raw data at face value there are often caveates that mar conclusions. Its why statitics, while brutally boring, plays an essential part in data intpretation.
Holy crap I had to wait for 4 pages of replies for this! You are amazing! This is exactly the advice I needed. I'll research how to calculate error reduced mean in Google Sheets. Thank you very much!
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@CashelP14 said:
I think this Otz video just proved that the community doesn't really know what way the game is balanced. Maybe it isn't survivor sided, or killer sided.
When you look at this video, the tournament he referenced, other streamers, your own experience.. you'll soon see that there is too many factors to determine what the balance of the game is.
Maybe the devs are the only ones with the proper stats to truely know the balance of the game.
Exactly! We don't have data to talk about balance. But we can talk about SBMM. I believe good matchmaking can compensate for balancing flaws.
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@LoneSlinger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735931#Comment_2735931
I primarily agree with you but I will give these guys a fair point and say that 1-10 games on each killer doesn't really work when we all know there is individual mmr
In order to see "accurate" data we really need like 25-50 games played on each killer and look at the averages from that
Would you not agree that to be a more "accurate" representation of the data?
Yes, of course I agree that the more data you have the more accurate it is. I plan adding to it. But, what people forget is that individual killer MMR varies only by maximum 100 points. Devs explained reasoning for that before and it makes perfect sense. The variance is so tiny on the scale of MMR (starting value 1800 I think, I could be wrong), that it could not possibly explain my results. Also, as I said before, it's not even about me. Watch Otz experiment video.
My previous was from 50 games. There is barely any change in average kill between 50 and 100 match results. My interpretation is that my MMR is stable.
Average kills at 50 games were 3.02
Average kills at 100 games are 3.01
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735931#Comment_2735931
I will use we so long as the predominant opinion, again, as demonstrated by the other people who have chimed in to say the very same thing, is that you have a shallow understanding of statistical significance.
You're throwing a lot of insults for someone who was accusing me of being the upset one. Also, I thought you were done with this thread? :)
- I never said I'm done with the thread. I said I'm done with entertaining your threadcrapping, for the simple reason that I respect forum rules:
- "PLEASE AVOID POSTING THE FOLLOWING: Things that do not contribute to the discussion (e.g. baits, etc.)"
- If you have anything to say on topic, we can continue indefinitely.
- There is no predominant opinion. It's just your opinion about what is predominant. Anyway, back to the topic.
You failed to demonstrate any proof "shallow understanding of statistical significance." Feel free to post one after you familiarize yourself with the concept.
"You're throwing a lot of insults" - Am I? When? Are you able to stay on topic or are you going to get upset again and start feeling insulted?
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735860#Comment_2735860
You did not play enough games to infer that your victories are attributable to MMR not working. You did not control enough variables. You did not demonstrate a solid enough understanding of even basic concepts like killers having individual MMRs. While almost all of us already know MMR is not working, because it's clearly valuing queue times as a more significant factor above all else, that does not make your data accurate or useful.
And by we, I mean you can look at the first two pages of this thread where several people point out these flaws, I'm trying not to rehash them in depth because if you didn't read them the first time then, well, you're not going to the second time around either.
We have to stop meeting like this :)
Edit: You can preach statistical significance until the cows come home, but just because you can broken record a false claim, doesn't mean 'we' are going to let you get away with it. 2 + 2 won't equal 5 just because I shouted it enough in the town square.
Oh yes, you right on this one: I can preach statistical significance until the cows come home, but if you still have troubles understanding it, than the further conversation is pointless. Can't discuss science of statistics, or any other science as a matter of fact with flat earthers.
You can refer to yourself as 'we' all you want. It's just comical. But by all means, if you identify as a Gollum, enjoy it: “We like goblinses, batses and fishes. But we hasn’t tried Hobbitses before. Is it soft? Is it juicy?”
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735821#Comment_2735821
And all we see is someone climbing the MMR ladder on several characters, without understanding or direction, or even enough data points to justify their confirmation bias.
Enjoy the rest of your day as well!
You really need to reconsider calling yourself "We". I thought "statistically significant" was a simple concept. Apparently not for everyone. Oh well.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735810#Comment_2735810
So long as you understand why your data is faulty so that you can do better the next time around, you can bow out anytime you like :) - Best of luck.
My data is not faulty. I explained what "statistically significant" means at least 3 times. It's not my problem if it makes you so upset. Enjoy the rest of your day.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735762#Comment_2735762
1 game as each killer does not a sample size make. I am not the first person to tell you that, it shouldn't have to be said again. I am also the very same person that had to correct you and point out that Otz does get steamrolled by survivors enough that most people can recall those matches. You know, except for you.
and again, I did not say: "but then said that you didn't know it's possible to win almost every game with SBMM" - I have no clue why you keep harping on this.
So again, I have no clue why you are so desperate to drive home fictitious points that you are arguing with yourself.
Look, I don't know why you are so upset, but further conversation with you would be against forum rules (see thread crapping part) as all you are doing is getting argumentative and personal, instead of address ng anything to the topic of discussion. Have a nice day and I'm sorry, but I don't have patience to explain simple things multiple times.
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"the gap appeared far smaller than it really was." LOL. That's why you should either play your own game or listen to people like Otz. Than you won't need data for something that is obvious to anyone with experience.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735746#Comment_2735746
I did not say that I knew its possible to win almost every game with SBMM.
Jesus dude, I'm not being defensive, you're having a conversation with you, yourself, and Irene.
But he did prove in his video that it's possible to win almost every game. To which you replied that he "proved what we already knew", but then said that you didn't know it's possible to win almost every game with SBMM. So he did show something that you didn't know. Dude, it's obviously getting too hard for you to track your own thoughts. Just give it a rest until you sober up.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735723#Comment_2735723
Another instance of that's not what I said, but if you're so desperate to argue with yourself, go for it.
You didn't say "Otz proved what we already know."? Weird that I can scroll up and see that you said it. Okay, keep being upset and defensive if that's what you like.