sizzlingmario4
sizzlingmario4
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Nowhere to Hide and Vigil being nerfed is some of the best news I've heard all week. W changes
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Yeah, this is a bad idea. I get the intention behind the change but this creates a worse problem.
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I think they would need to add a separate toggle button to switch between 2 items so that using M2 wouldn't cause one item to interfere with the other (ie. having an EMP and a medkit). But I agree, this doesn't feel good that you just aren't allowed to use your item especially against Singularity/Onryo where you can't freely drop your special item (or can't drop it at all). While I recognize that this technically nerfs those two killers, I don't feel like this should be used as a balance mechanism and at least for Singularity specifically he's more than strong enough anyway that it really doesn't matter
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100135#Comment_4100135
old Wiki Vigil page
You can find the old calculations here, it was infact close to 20ish-30ish percent reduction which might go with what you are stating, then again I can't count I'm just going off face values, sorry if I'm wrong:https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/W3TG46ZRVWNU/image.png
edit: sorry I read the message quickly and misunderstood some things, but hopefully these calculations help
Yep this is correct and these were the numbers prior to patch 8.5.0. (And this is still how it works now just with the 66% number instead of 30% and no more stacking)
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100130#Comment_4100130
You're right, but it was a 10% buff and back then it stacked with itself, so that was the issue I think. I think the AOE is useful but can't say it's game changer.
The patch notes from that were wrong and I think is part of what led to the confusion around the numbers - the notes claimed it went from 30% to 40% which I agree if that were the case it would've been fine, but it actually went from 30% to 66% - 66% being roughly equal to the 40% duration reduction as was noted above (with the old 30% increase being around a 23% duration reduction which if anything was probably a little too weak). The effect was more than doubled basically along with getting a bigger range. It later lost its ability to self-stack but I don't feel like that really addressed the problem with it since 1 instance of the perk now is still worth more than 2 instances pre-buff, and the larger range means it applies a lot more often too.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4100058#Comment_4100058
It really shows how much of a numbers game DbD is! I don't use Vigil much so had not looked into it too much. Yeah it provides a good benefit but since it hasn't changed in 5 years, it doesn't need to be nerfed.
It has changed though, it received a massive buff 1.5 years ago which is what made it a problem. Prior to that it wasn't an issue
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I don't use it much anymore. Not because it isn't good, it's still a good perk for combating camping but rather because half the time when I do use it my solo queue teammate will just unhook them near the killer anyway lol.
But also I agree that certain changes over time have slightly reduced its value. Hook stages last longer than they used to, there are more mobility killers now who can proxy camp pretty effectively without staying near the hook as much and the anti-camp has been buffed so there just aren't as many situations where the extra 30 seconds is needed anymore. I think it still has value in SWFs but in solos I usually don't bother with it.
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Just rework it again at this point. It's still his strongest addon by far, the range nerf did basically nothing meaningful and a killer this powerful really shouldn't have any type of regression addon to begin with
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While I agree it needs a nerf, I don't agree with this approach. If it is split into multiple perks, whichever one has exhaustion on it will still be really strong if left at the same number. Whichever one doesn't have that will be a lot less useful. I think it's fine being a single perk honestly, the numbers are just way too high and there is plenty of room to lower them and the perk to still be useful. Personally I think it should be around 40% which would still be a little higher than the pre-2025 version.
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This is even more P2W than Were-Elk was
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4099241#Comment_4099241
Not instantly there is still the 3 second de-cloaking time so its not really hit "e" and right after "m1". He can just get that close with it that it can feel like its instant.
After you use the perk there's only about a 1 second delay before you can swing when uncloaking with this build. You do not have to wait the full 3 seconds
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From someone who plays Wraith a lot: I don't like this at all and am of the opinion that this should not be a thing, especially for a brown addon. I feel like it completely goes against Wraith's design as a killer. By using Serpent normally you still have to stop and break something which balances it out but this just lets you do it without really slowing yourself down at all. It's not uncounterable once you know they have it, but it feels extremely cheap imo.
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It needs a completely different method of earning tokens. Skill check fails is just a bad trigger condition and no amount of number tweaks or additional effects added to the perk will make it good as long as that is the trigger condition.
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I agree with this especially since swfs already have that information anyway so this only really benefits solos
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098263#Comment_4098263
yeah I hear you on that, and the player part of me feels the same.
The plan is for major changes to be in the mid chapters, there might still be smaller changes in Chapter Releases, depending on what bandwidth is available, but those are not guaranteed (cos of the bandwidth) but I also think having major updates on a mid chapter when there's no new content being added is a wise move.
Regarding the comments on making changes without testing them, and then having something broken in the game for X amount of time - we've been there before and seen the discourse that it causes so its not something we will aim to do at all. Having them tested and in the PTB is our intention, my team works very very closely with the Live Design team (this is the team who handle the live game, not new content) and we're constantly discussing the feedback we receive and what is planned for upcoming patches etc.
When we have large killer updates, that eats into the bandwidth that's available, and then there's minimal, if any, changes elsewhere as well, so that affects priorities heavily. It's a balancing act between what will improve the game for X amount of people vs Y amount of people sometimes, as whilst we'd love to do more constantly and are investigating many different ways, we are limited with what can realistically be achieved within the time frames available.
I do agree with the philosophy that larger changes should be reserved for midchapters and I think the Krasue patch is a great example as to why that is.
Above all else I just hope we can get some perk updates soon, even if just small tweaks/number adjustments, as the current meta is feeling pretty stale on both sides and has been for a while
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/469811/most-perks-need-a-buff
Since it's not lost on me that speaking about this in broader terms can make it tough to pull out specific examples, I'd love to dig into this a little deeper. We want to make sure we're getting feedback to the team about perks folks feel could use a boost, after all.
I'm game to hear any feedback on perks you think could do with a buff, but specifically, have you noticed any perks that were adversely impacted by Diminishing Returns and are lacking utility nowadays?
To name a few in relation to diminishing returns specifically:
- Better than New
- Friendly Competition
- Ghost Notes
- Teamwork: Full Circuit
- Teamwork: Soft-Spoken
- Game Afoot
- Help Wanted
- Knock Out
- Leverage
- Unbound
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I don't think it would necessarily make him too strong, but I do think it would make him less interesting and remove part of what makes his power unique.
I'm not at all opposed to Dredge getting a buff, he's not a good killer, but imo this isn't the right solution
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It actually is not affected by diminishing returns as addons are excluded from that. So it does not fix the issue it had originally.
2% reduction is useless though, so I think the addon just needs a rework.
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096579#Comment_4096579
not having a terror radius. oblivious and undetectable completely negate CE.
Something that you have no control over once the game starts is not counterplay
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I've been seeing it plenty and have also used it plenty myself.
My opinion on it hasn't really changed from PTB, I still think it's very strong and needs the upcoming nerf. It's pretty easy to figure out it's in play, but only after you've already lost significant time to it, overall having it work in chase is too good for how easy it is to get
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It needs to activate sooner. 5% hinder for 15 seconds is a good effect, the problem is it just takes too long to get the perk going
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I guess I just don't really understand what the point is of making the offerings less common than previous events. Reducing the bloodpoint cost is nice but it doesn't make up for the lower amounts of bloodpoints that are being gained since the offerings are less common. I know I'm being harsh but I have played this game since 2021 and this is by far the worst anniversary event that I've been a part of since then, not only is the bloodpoint economy worse but the event gameplay itself is bad. Poison is uninteractive to face and everything else about the event is just survivor sided so it's just not fun on either side imo. I went straight back to normal queue as soon as I finished the challenges
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I agree that it needs to ramp up faster. Though I think it is actually better than Scared to Death so it's not Jason's worst perk imo, but either way it could still use a bit of a boost
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
is the heal progress that's permanent persistent across multiple heals?
Yes and it also works in the dying state.
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It's an awful perk. It takes too long to activate and when you do get it it doesn't really give you any better of a benefit than Brutal does.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092051#Comment_4092051
I didn't realize that it doesn't work with undetectable that's kinda lame.
being Oblivious shuts it off as well
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I agree that tooltip is misleading and should be changed.
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I think these are all very reasonable changes.
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I agree this is becoming an issue especially given terror radius size increases for certain killers. That said, I also don't think it's that great on average if not slugging without very specific builds, so I would propose the following changes:
- To fix the slugging issue with the perk, Coulrophobia only applies to healing other injured survivors or self-healing while injured. Healing downed survivors is no longer affected.
- To make it more consistent on injured survivors, the effect now lingers for 10 seconds after leaving the terror radius.
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I agree and I think the cooldown is too short as well. Omnipresent Evil as a whole feels like it's active a little too often. Overall I like Jason's power but definitely feel this should be toned down a bit + Deputy's Badge needs another rework.
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Unless this is reversed, I won't be buying anything from that collection. Absolutely ridiculous to do this.
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I disagree on this one, old ADS speed was incredibly uninteractive and didn't work at all from a design standpoint for a game like DBD, it forced too many lose-lose scenarios for survivors and as long as you were in a position to reel in a survivor to get the down, it really wasn't that much different from if say Huntress could move at 110 with a hatchet pulled up.
I would like them to give Deathslinger a slight reduction in reload time and an addon pass which is something he's needed for a while now imo but the ADS speed should stay the way it is
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So sorry to hear this. @CountOfTheFog I hope you get well soon <3
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It needs to be dropped to around 40% imo. I would still like it to remain a bit stronger than the old version which was at 30% but the current version is just way too much, makes SB too readily available and makes too many perks/addons not worth using which feels awful for build variety especially when probably 95% of builds that use Vigil are primarily using it for exhaustion and not the other stuff. Overall it's too strong for an effect that is both entirely passive and also works on teammates.
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Definitely agree on Help Wanted needing a buff. Its strength is not comparable to Machine Learning at all.
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Yes it does, but addons are exempt. So your example Chucky build with Strobing Light + Silk Pillow + Monitor is not impacted. But Distressing + Agitation together (and Monitor if in a chase) would be
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While Self Preservation is a very good perk, I don't think it's quite comparable to old Distortion.
Old Distortion basically never ran out of tokens 95% of the time; Self Preservation isn't something that's active for the entire match and unlike Distortion it doesn't give you any information on what the killer is (or isn't) using. It is a very effective BBQ and FTTE counter though.
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Addons are excluded from diminishing returns so Waterlogged Shoe is not affected
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This would just encourage staying near the hook and exposing any would-be rescuers with your power. I don't think we should be giving any buff to a killer that would only primarily serve to strenghten that playstyle.
I don't disagree that Ghostface needs more changes, but this is not the way.
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@Ohyakno said:
Wait so does that mean that borrowed time doesn't extend the duration of the off-hook endurance as much because of diminishing returns? That can't be the case. It would be insane.
BT still has the same increase to the endurance duration, that didn't change.
What did change is that Babysitter's haste value gets lowered by the off-hook haste since they stack and are in effect at the same time. The duration is the same, but the effect is reduced until the base BT expires; instead of getting 20% total for the first 15 seconds you now only get 15% total as Babysitter's effect gets lowered to 5%. Once the base BT expires (or if you take a conspicuous action to end it early), Babysitter reverts to 10%.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077399#Comment_4077399
No I mean, if I have my 10% overzealous, and another survivor have 6% deja vu. Will that be stacked together 16% speed?
Or will diminishing return make deja vu 3% and together 13% speed co up value
And with me giving prove thyself 10% to another survivor. Will that value be valued as their 100% and then their deja become 50% less?
If the only perks in play are your Overzealous and the other survivor's Deja Vu, then no there would be no diminishing returns at all even if you are working together. You would both get full value from your perks as you each only have 1 bonus and that bonus is exclusive to the perk owner.
When you add in Prove Thyself on top of that, that's when diminishing returns kicks in as you both now have 2 repair speed bonuses each
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077389#Comment_4077389
So survivors with their highest value does effect others, and the diminishing returns will reduce what value they bring when doing something together?
I would be 100% satisfied whenever a Dev comment. Because how do we know 100% about this. Don't remember from the live stream that other survivors values would be compared and diminished against their values. If that is the case, it is brutal.
If it's something that specifically applies to other survivors, then yes.
But your Overzealous for example would not reduce someone else's Deja Vu since that effect never gets applied to them, only to you
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077381#Comment_4077381
Why would my overzealous be 5%?
So whatever another survivor bring, that is their highest value, compared with anothers value, they will diminish??
You would get 10% from one perk and 5% from the other (10% reduced by 50%), in this case since the normal value is 10% on both it doesn't matter what order we put them in, you'll end up with 15% total for you either way.
Regardless, the other survivor will still get the full 10% from your Prove Thyself if they don't have any other repair speed increases, even if the value is diminished for you. But if they have other repair speed increasing effects stacking with the bonus they get from your Prove Thyself, that is included in diminishing returns and your perk can affect theirs (or vice versa). In general, it doesn't matter which player the effect comes from (with limited exceptions for self-inflicted debuffs and skill check trigger odds).
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I agree.
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- If you have active Overzealous and Prove Thyself, the other survivor would still get 10%, you would only get 5% (15% total for you from both perks, other survivor gets 10%)
- If another survivor with Deja Vu is affected by your Prove Thyself, then yes they get the 10% from Prove Thyself and their Deja Vu would be reduced to 3%
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Imo he needs a reload time reduction (ie. one reload addon basekit) + large addon pass. I don't agree with increasing his speed at all though.
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Very well said and I agree with much of this post.
I cannot stress enough on Steadfast that having a team-wide penalty on a boon totem is incredibly bad design when 3 of those survivors didn't have that choice. I don't necessarily have an issue with penalties on certain perks, but I do have a problem with one that impacts all survivors equally including those that don't have any control over it. This is 100% going to be used in situations where it will overall hurt the team more than it helps, and at the same time designing any boon around generator progress that doesn't have some downside like that seems incredibly difficult. I'm not sure how to fix this perk, but I don't think number changes alone are going to be sufficient.
I also have to agree that Fruits of Your Labor seems like it'd outclass Adrenaline almost entirely, as the last generator gives you the same full heal effect, not as much haste but no exhaustion, and still has smaller effects prior to the endgame as well. Overall I like the perk's design but this would be an issue with it, and I'm not really a fan of the idea of buffing Adrenaline, either.
The 120 second cooldown on Lay Waste is definitely too long. Granted, it SHOULDN'T be as good as pre-nerf CoB because that perk was busted, but a regression speed increase that only activates once every 2 minutes is very restrictive, especially when that generator needs to be above 50 charges for the effect to be better than current CoB.
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Many of the aura colors are unusable due to the bad saturation, I agree. I've had to stick with a handful of specific colors that stand out a bit more than the others and ignore the rest
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This was also what I suggested at the time it was being changed and I agree. No reason to have 2 addons with that aura reading effect that are almost exactly the same
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076132#Comment_4076132
yeah i get that part, which is easier to understand i guess. But it is also leaving out the Info that there is still some penalty as well? And what do the arrows mean and the movement mean?
The arrows will change speed depending on the progress bar color, so when yellow for example the arrows move faster. It's kinda unnecessary imo