savevatznick
savevatznick
About
- Username
- savevatznick
- Joined
- Visits
- 716
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/616167#Comment_616167
The reality is that survivors don't play around it though, because they don't have to due to its lack of impact
Do killers play around Pharmacy by trapping or defending chests, which are about as difficult to find as totems? No, because it's weak. Also because it's rarely used, but NOED is relatively common and yet barely anyone adjusts to counter it: because it's so weak they don't have to
Well, I think Pharmacy is a false equivalency, These things plague the game, obviously, but a killer can run "Cut Coin" to absolutely neuter the effectively of Pharmacy. Is it fair or predictable? No.
But that's how this game is balanced. Predictability is not a constant in Dead by Day light. This entire game's balance is based around killers Mind-gaming loops. It's not about pure, coded balance. It's about appearances, reading other people, and psychological games.
Perks like NOEd , Haunted Ground, or survivor perks can never be balanced in the game's current state because they rely upon a person anticipating them. The Meta dictates playstyles - if something counters the META, it becomes OP, people expect it etc. There's nothing you can do. I'm sorry I can't be more coherent, but the gist of what I'm saying is that this game is simply not balanced to be competitive. It's balanced like Mario Party, around the lowest common denominator. I don't know what else to say.
-
@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/616157#Comment_616157
Killers play around DS and BT though even if they are not in the game, survivors generally don't play around NOED
The reason for that is that NOED is too weak, it's easy to escape while someone else is being hooked for example. Or you go look for the totem, make a BT save and get out
NOED needs a buff
NOEd doesn't need a buff. I'm trying to make the point that NOED is fine as a perk because the counterplay to NOED is the same as how a Killer needs to normally play with the threat of DS/BT/DH/ADR/ etc.
Survivors needs to start playing like killers, and baiting DH, slugging DS, Anticipating BT, knowing when to break chases with BLanding, knowing how to counterplay ADrenaline, all at once. Instead they whine about NOED when the requirement to mitigate NOED is equivalent or smaller than a killer playing properly around all of the survivor's perks they could possibly have.
In short, you're wrong. NOED doesn't need a buff. It works perfectly fine as is - A survivor needs to waste time cleansing EVERY TOTEM, just like a killer needs to be on guard for every perk and wasting their own time. I think NOED is just fine as it is right now.
-
@ArecBalrin said:
They're a partial counter-balance to perks like Borrowed Time, DS and Unbreakable: the killer doesn't know if survivors are going to be running them, but if they can't rule them out, they have to still act as if they were being used.
This is how certain perks for both sides benefit even those who aren't using them; because the opposing side can't rule them out even when they aren't actually being used.
Complain about that if you wish, but both sides have them and they are a compromise because of survivors numerous 2nd-chance perks originally not having much in the way of mitigation at all: the circumstances that trigger them were often inevitable, as was the case originally with DS.
This is a good, good, good, and good explanation as to why NOED exists in its current state.
If you complain that there is a non-readable strength on the survivor side of things, you need to take into account the amount of non-readable survivor perks that threaten a killer.
A killer watching someone go for a brazen unsafe unhook needs to be careful of borrowed time, even if that perk doesn't exist in that current match just because of the threat of its existence. THAT INFLUENCES THE GAME IN AN IMPORTANT WAY SIMPLY DUE TO THE PERK EXISTING IN THE META-GAME.
Just like a killer slugging someone who was recently unhooked but bad at being chased. They need to plan around the THREAT of decisive strike, even if it doesn't exist. If one person is running an Obsession perk, the Killer needs to be cautious of DS especially when a single DS can make or break the game. THE MERE EXISTENCE OF SUCH A PERK FORCES A KILLER TO WASTE THEIR OWN TIME BY DEFAULT.
NOED is simply the killers answer to these perks. It forces survivors to waste time and counterplay in a similar way to how killers waste time to counterplay. If a killer refuses to wait out/slug the Ds timer, or doesn't respect Borrowed time, or doesn't play around Adrenaline, they get punished really, REALLY HARD. If a survivor fails to play around NOED, even if it doesn't exist, they get punished REALLY HARD.
It's an equal exchange, in my opinion. I don't use NOED, as someone who does 70% killer 30% survivor, but I understand why someone would use it. It's the same as most survivor perks. Really, if you want NOED to go, you should be asking for a total game rebalance.
-
Decisive strike disables if a different survivor is hooked during its duration.
Adrenaline only heals a single health state. It doesn't apply if you're on hook. No speed boost - if you want the speed boost, run Hope with it.
Huntress's Lullaby and Ruin no longer notify survivors that they're active. They're easy to disable, and easy to read as-is.
-
@Glory said:
I love how many people on here (not just this thread, fellas, I'm not calling you out specifically) are against any changes that would hide their red stain, when there's a huntress perk specifically for that and none of them would ever consider using it "because the effect isn't worth a perk slot" lol
Just like there's a perk to lower your whiffed attack recovery time, which is also considered "garbage", but heaven forbid anyone make it useful either...
I like the change proposed, my dude. Especially where one commenter likened it to billy's chainsaw in terms of trajectory and aiming, good head on your shoulders
You really misunderstand what the complaints about when we complain about red stain. That Huntress perk (Beast of Prey) only triggers on Bloodlust level one and up. Bloodlust starts after fifteen seconds in a chase, and is reset every pallet break.
The whole point of a mindgame is to mitigate the power of loops so a killer isn't condemned to spend time eating each and every loop. A lot of people use bloodlust tiering up as a signal to "hurry up on this chase because at this point, its gone on long enough that you're losing". Beast of prey isn't very good because it ends up kicking in too late to do what hiding your red stain should do : save time on loops by mindgaming for hits. If you've already hit bloodlust tier one, you've spent 15 seconds on a single loop, which means the loop has done its job and wasted your time.
Locking lunges would severely reduce the mind-gameability of pallet loops on the killer side, reinforcing them as unmitigateable time wastes for any killer that relies on their M1 for hits. Unless you want everyone to switch off of their killers and finally pick up nurse or spirit to circumvent looping entirely, you should oppose locking lunge directions.
Can't even believe people think this is a good idea unironically. If you've lost enough distance to where the killer can hit you, you deserve to get hit.
-
@PolarBear said:
This would indeed, lower the skill cap since you couldn't hide your red light while lunging around corners anymore.
This is what I was thinking. How are killers supposed to mindgame loops if lunging is locked? Doing mindgames with your model and red glow are the only way a lot of killers (m1 killers) can mitigate loops.
-
Fragility - The Generators in the trial are extremely temperamental, and any seismic impact will disturb their inner workings
Generators regress by 5%/6%/7% every time a survivor drops a pallet, lands from a high fall, or fails a generator skillcheck. Pallet vaults and window vaults do not affect this perk.
This perk would reward a killer for chasing survivors in an efficient way. It would mitigate the adverse time wasting effect that looping has on many killers by rewarding them for outplaying survivors and forcing pallet drops in quick succession, as well as mitigate the usefulness of the Haddonfield loops. It would function as a more reliable alternative to Ruin that is more depending on the skill of the Killer player, giving them time to actually chase people.
-
Keys are badly designed just like Moriis are badly designed. They literally remove gameplay.
-
@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606478#Comment_606478
Except the farm map with the gen in the middle of the inf. Then they can be productive till it's done and at that point anyone can use that inf to effectively lock a killer down long enough for gens to be done.
Know what gens to give up. Stuff that spawns right in the middle of terrible loops like Ironworks of Misery or Wretched Shop or Torment Creek's barn are indefensible and a waste of time to defend if you're playing against survivors that know as much as you do.
If you see a survivor heading towards a safe area, just let them go. They want you to chase them there, and you never, ever want to be playing how the survivor wants you to play. Refuse to be their circus monkey, cut your losses, and chase somewhere else.
-
1. Learn to hit great skill checks so you can ignore Ruin. Many people just do this.
2. Look for and destroy Ruin. Many people do this and get it done roundstart.
3. Do gens solo if you can't hit the skill checks. It might take on 25 extra seconds per gen or so, but the gens will get done
-
@Atrushan88 said:
@savevatznick Until you realize all the other survivors do the stupidest ######### and you have to work extra hard solo.
Of course, but that happens regardless of PC or Console. I'm just pointing out the difference the controls have on gameplay, which ideally are the only things that change between platforms.
-
Adrenaline's health state is a problem because it almost completely eliminates any end-game pressure a killer has on remaining survivors by clearing their injuries, as well as destroying any current chase a Killer might be in when all five gens pop. The fact that this health state is applied retroactively to anyone on the hook once they unhook further exacerbates this problem. It hard-counters any killer banking on the end-game (unless NOED), and generally eliminates any pressure a killer has in the final, climatic phase of the game. It does too much for survivors, even if it is super conditional.
I don't often play against NOED, nor do I ever play with it equipped. I understand why it feels bad to play against - it often denies late game altruism because a killer who keeps the hook nearby can insta-down a rescuer and snowball off of that. At the same time, the existence and common use of adrenaline makes me understand why killers would want to run it. If anything, both need changes.
-
I would imagine that playing as a survivor on Console would be a bit easier compared to playing as a survivor on PC, simply because a lot of Killer mindgames around loops rely on precise red-glow manipulation. In situations like these, the precise and abrupt movement afforded by a computer mouse is much more suited to confusing survivors than the controls of a Console - thus, on a console, killer's movements are slightly more predictable.
That, and killers can deal with things like 360's better. Nurses can snap their blinks better, etc.
-
@TLToInfinity said:
lol So you complain that I didn’t do paragraphs, and I’m apparently whining when I was saying how to change certain things instead, of saying oh this op nerf now?
I say that because a lot of your changes are a bit short-sighted, even if I agree with some of them (like your DS nerf). You seem angry in your post, and it's also completely illegible. I think if you just used the "bullet" function and gave everyone a list of what you wanted to change instead of a brick, they'd be more likely to actually read through the whole thing as opposed to tl;dring it.
-
Decisive Strike prevents being "tunneled" very well as is, so it fulfills its intended purpose. However, in doing that, it creates a ton of other problems.
OP mentioned its synergy with other powerful perks that create windows of nigh-invulnerability for recently unhooked survivors. There is also the issue of survivors who have DS active forcing grabs from the killer (Hiding in a locker) in order to abuse their Decisive.
To me, its duration (60 seconds) is the problem, because that window of time feels way too lenient. The issue is that if it was way too short, killers would simply prolong a chase until it wore off, and not feel the repercussions of "tunneling" someone, but right now, an efficient killer can hook an entirely different survivor, then still get Decisive'd by the person they hooked before, just because it lasts that long. DS acts, in some cases, as a crutch for people who are simply bad at surviving because regardless of whether or not they get to use their DS, the simple threat of it existing wastes a killer's time.
If I were to change ANYTHING about Decisive, I would make it so if a different survivor is hooked while Decisive is active, it would turn Decisive inactive. This would still make it remain a "don't tunnel me" perk, while also preventing it from hindering killers that play within its bounds. Right now, it does its "job" but also way, way too much more.
-
You should learn to separate your writing into paragraphs so it's more intelligible than a wall of words higher than the Great Wall of China.
Also, whining about every single specific perk or playstyle isn't really helpful, it just indicates that this game has deep, elemental issues that need to be fixed. Every tiny change to a perk to fix it "for now" ends up being inconsequential when this game needs a redesign from the ground up anyways.
-
I don't think the amount of pallets or loops is as much of an issue right now, I think the problem lies more in the safety or strength of each loop and how maps generation can really screw killers over. There are a lot of pallets that are either non-mindgameable / rely solely on the survivor being bad, or ones that force a pallet break instead of any other counterplay. Pallets like the ones outside of Thompson house or Cow Tree come to mind for un-mindegameable pallets, and the pallets in the basement of old Badham or the ones that spawn near the basement in The Game come to mind as absolute chasebreakers. These aren't fun to play around because they cannot be played around - the killer simply needs to accept the loop and eat the pallet, no matter how much time it takes, because there is nothing else to do.
There also is the issue of certain complex buildings / "setpiece buildings" in some maps being able to spawn loops so strong that they create a "safe area" for survivors to abuse. These are things like Wretched Shop's god awful double window loop, the brick wall window loop in the Ironworks of Misery, any house in Haddonfield combined with Balanced Landing, Killer Shack spawning in certain places. There's also stuff like Crotus Penn's entire central building, or the double-window Library nigh-infinite in Lery's. These, in my opinion, are just because the devs are too lazy or unwilling to make the easy minor fixes to these buildings to make them generate in a "fair" way every time.
If every pallet was mind-gameable to the same degree, then it wouldn't really matter how many pallets were on the map - if the killer wins two mindgames in a row, they get a down. Instead, there are safe loops that demand a pallet break,and some loops, like Rancid Abbatoir's window loop, which can be game-ending if a killer is stupid enough to actually chase a survivor through. Sometimes you just have to know when not to chase.
As a note to people who go "lol xd they're not actually infinite hurr durr, you can eventually catch someone in 5 minutes if you do it right" - that's not the argument when people call something an "infinite". It's an "infinite" because by the time you catch the survivor, enough progress has been made for the survivors to effectively end the game.
-
This change doesn't fix the problem that against competent survivors, there will be no corrupt pools for you to use this infinite range change on. The Plague's issue is that she has no control over the second part of her power, which is the part that actually allows her to down people. To make matters worse, breaking a survivor with disease does nothing to affect their ability to do gens or loop you, and if a survivor does happen to heal, they go from Broken to full health, instead of simply removing their broken status. If you want to fix the Plague, the best thing to do would be to give her actual control over her power so she's not a C-tier killer if survivors know what they're doing, and then balance from there.
-
@Rivyn said:
O. . . that makes sense. Isn't that a bit of an exploit, though?
It's not an exploit, per se, more than the survivor abusing bad design. The locker does make them invincible to the normal slugging counterplay to DS, though.
-
@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606127#Comment_606127
I mean, I do find it frustrating to have one item left on the bloodweb being just too expensive.
But then, I don't mind it, since that's the only way to get the addons.
One thing though, if the bloodweb were to be scrapped, how would you get perks that are not the survivor teachables? How would that work?
Would leveling perks be like how I proposed addons being like?
Still, I'd be interested in seeing it.
Perks are a different thing from what I'm focusing on, but the way to get perks should change if the bloodweb goes, along with get rid of those stupid perk ranks. If you unlock a perk, you should be able to use it across all killers, in my opinion. Having to unlock them across the span of characters doesn't add any "progression", it just adds grind.
-
Trapper : Purple Bag plus Trap Fastening Tools (Purple)
This makes you able to actually use your power without massive time-waste, be able to slap traps down AS you're being looped, as well as decreasing your setup time, AND making it harder for survivors to escape traps. Quite nice.
Wraith : Bone/Coxcomb clapper, "The Ghost"-soot
In-feckin-sane mindgame potential. Survivors can't use their ears to pin-point your direction, and can't see your red stain coming for them. Even during chases, you can maintain extremely high uptime on Ghost-soot, meaning you can catch a ton of survivors off-guard with your 0 TR and no Red Glow. It really helps to kick survivors off of strong loops with sheer mindgame power alone. It's also a yellow/brown combo, so you won't often run out of these addons.
Plague: Ashen Apple + Exorcism Amulet
Double Green is a bit hard to sustain bloodweb-wise, but I think this is an interesting build to run from time to time. Obviously, you're neutering your ability to infect survivors to Broken status without any Emetic addons.
This strategy tries to mitigate the Plague's glaring weakness that her power is entirely in the hands of the survivors. Bee-line to the corrupted fountain that the Apple spawns right as the round starts, then abuse the increased Purge duration from Amulet to gain a huge amount of early game momentumn. Bonus points if you're running Haunted Ground and the like, so you can secure 2 or 3 free hooks with your initial round of black puke. It's feast-or-famine, because if you don't down people with your first Corruption session and the survivors don't cleanse, you are playing without add-ons all game. Try it some time.
-
If the survivor 99%'d the door you may as well open it yourself to start the collapse. It's on the killer for not defending the switch and allowing a survivor to 99% it in the first place. Before the EGC they'd have just opened the gate plain while you were away - there's not really a difference between the two.
-
@PyroGL said:
My suspicion is the devs balance a killer by first designing it as if the killer has equipped either yellow or green "vanilla" addons (ones that don't really modify the power other than numerical changes), and then nerf the killer and turn the nerfed values into the lower tier addons. That way, killers are indeed, forced to play with addons just to reach the initial balanced state they started in.
Exactly. I suspect the same thing. The issue with this is that a killer is forced to cope with objective increases or decreases in their power level simply based on their add-on availability, and thus sometimes have the "luxury" of an easy game with purples and reds, or to be "stuck" swinging browns or yellows that are just plain worse than greens or purples.
This is equally unpleasant for survivors, because they sometimes have games against the same killer which are either extremely easy or terribly hard just because a killer happened to be lucky, unlucky, or willing/unwilling to bite the bullet with their add-ons.
-
@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606165#Comment_606165
What about chests? And perks like pharmacy would be practically useless with that change
If anything, chests could be a way for survivors to "reroll" their power mid-game if it isn't working or isn't as optimal as another could be. That, however, creates a reliability problem yet again, where the reroll might be meaningful or might not be depending on chance. Chests could be absolutely excised from the game and it would be a net benefit - the only reason the exist is for survivors to either gamble for keys (which I mentioned before, are terrible for gameplay) or to circumvent the bloodweb grind for good items/addons (which wouldn't exist in my proposed system).
Chests, as they are currently implemented, don't exactly please me, to be honest. They feel almost like a hindrance to survivors, because they mix meta-game objectives (players wanting to accumulate rare items) with in-game objectives (Distracting from completing gens, which the game is balanced around), and are terribly unreliable. A survivor can hinder their team by wasting a ton of time searching through chests, and end up being caught by the killer because those things are noisy and have predictable spawns. Speaking from personal experience, I never burn cut-coin addons when I play killer, because I don't see why I would pass up on the chance that a survivor will stop doing gens to search a chest, giving me ~20 seconds of them doing potentially nothing with no effort on my part.
You are right, Chests most likely would need to go completely [I doubt most people would miss them] or sustain a massive re-work, and perks surrounding chests would need to be re-worked following whichever course was taken. I don't think Chests are particularly positive towards the game balance anyways, as they exist currently. Thank you for bringing this up, it's a good thing to consider.
-
Brutal Strength to deal with survivors who drop the pallet early in order to mitigate Dream Snares.
-
@NuclearBurrito said:
How would that work with items?
Or in otherwords, how do you balance having an item so that it's equivalent to NOT having an item? Just like how you are proposing that addons should be null in terms of balance impact.
Well, ideally, survivors would have their Item slot be open to choice between Flashlight, Toolbox, Medkit, Map, and Key (Firecrackers for events), and have two add-on slots which modify the function of those items. To sum it up, the items should function much the same as killer powers : They're abilities survivors have that are balanced at the baseline, and can be modified with add-ons which function as side-grades. Keep in mind that none of these items nor add-ons should run out.
For example, a survivor could choose the tool-kit as their Item, and then pick an add-on to the tool-kit that exchanges an amount of charges for increased repair speed, making them able to complete gens in a different manner than if the took a different add-on.
The next game, they could decide that isn't working for them, and simply use the basic "baseline power level" tool-kit with no add-ons for a longer lasting tool-kit that repairs at a slower speed more reliably.
You could CHOOSE to run without an item (survivors seem to function fine without them, to be honest), but the idea is that survivors could specialize around working with their items just as killers work with their powers - there'd be no reason not to equip an item because they all confer SOME benefit with no real downside.
Obviously, it'd require rebalancing the game nd such, but I think it's better than some days having that Purple flashlight with Incandescent bulb in your inventory, and other days having a measly Yellow Flashlight no add-ons at all. It'd encourage experimentation with different add-ons and playstyles because you wouldn't be afraid of losing that ultra-rare whatsit in a bad game. Consistent power is key here, and I feel like if the game was built from the ground-up around consistent, reliable power as opposed to unreliable,chance-based power, it'd be healthier and more easy to balance in the future. It'd also get rid of the terrible bloodweb grind for add-ons that everyone hates so much.
Keys, now that I think about it, throw a bit of a wrench into the spanner because they function like an ebony morii does - it deletes gameplay and ends the round prematurely. Perhaps keys should be restricted to only aura-reading, or some other, more versatile benefit aside from hatch-opening. Currently, they're balanced around "You won't see them every game, so even if they are extremely powerful, they're not crashing the party all the time", which, as I said, DOES NOT WORK if the game is to be balanced competitively.
So, to answer your question, items and their add-ons would work like killer's powers and their add-ons. Side-grades based on personal choice. Switching your item as a survivor would be like switching to a different killer with a different power, and the add-ons go from there.
-
Explain to them that Dead by Daylight is a game about time management. The 40 seconds they take to self-care can be used to do half a gen or even more if they are the type to run to a secluded place to self-care. Ask them to pay attention to how many times they self-care per round, and then convert that, across all team members into hypothetical gen progress. It will become clear to them that they could be ending games much more quickly if they just play injured or have a team-mate care for them if they avoided Self Care. You could also tell them that they could pack a med-kit in game to self-care without having to take up a perk slot.
Explain to them that Spine Chill acts as an early warning system to some of the stronger killers in this game, such as Nurse, Spirit, Hillbilly, as well as against stealth killers. Being able to tell when a killer is looking at you is a huge advantage once you know what to do with that advantage. It provides invaluable and precise information that no other perk can.
Self-caring at a pallet is just stupid and they should know that with simple common sense. You're losing distance between you and the killer by sitting and waiting for them to eat the pallet, and distance = time, and you goal during a chase is to waste as much of the killer's time as possible, etc....
-
@Raven014 said:
Interesting proposal. I would be keen to see it.
However, I'm sure that there would be some kind of progression, right? Like play enough games with scratched ruler to unlock the better ruler kind of thing? Because if all addons were unlocked from the get go... it might be a little much.
There is existing progression that can be fleshed out in things like a player's Devotion level, and them gaining Iridescent Shards per level. Maybe rewards per devotion level, etc.
Ideally, the blood-web would be scrapped because if add-ons are made permanent fixtures in player's inventory like perks were, there would be nothing to grind bloodwebs for. I don't believe locking gameplay behind "grinding bars" helps people understand the game any more quickly, so ideally I wouldn't want a progression system that makes you have to play X amount of games with a low-tier add-on to "unlock" a better one.
-
MoM was extremely strong in its original state. If "protection-hit" detection was more reliable, perhaps post-nerf MoM would be viable in its current state. To be honest, it's very hard to make a free health state feel "fair".
No survivor perk is going to be "Meta" unless it's easily accesible and universally useful against all killers. Current MoM has as much a place in the game as something like No Mither. You'd need to build around it, and even then it'd be situational even in mid-ranks. I just feel like a free health state is unbalanceable as a perk.
-
Object of Obsession becomes a problem specifically with a survivor baiting a killer into chasing them, or an SWF using it for free information on the killer. It ends up being a long-range "Killer Radar" that can be used to help SWF teammates coordinate, or simply give a survivor a ton of information which they can use against the killer.
I think, if it were to be nerfed at all, which I don't think it really needs a nerf, it would be as so :
They should nerf the degree of view that a killer and survivor need to be sharing for Object of Obsession to be activated. This would allow counterplay on the killer side, by obliquely keeping the Object of Obsession in-view, but not in direct line of sight - similar to Spine Chill counterplay. OoO would still work against killers scanning large areas for BBq stacks and general searching/ chases, but if a killer has read the OoO perk on a survivor, they'd be able to behave in a specific way to counter and track the OoO user and eliminate that threat. I feel like this would add meaningful counterplay to a perk which is unreliably extremely powerful or borderline useless, because it would allow both the survivor and killer to meaningfully engage in an interaction with each other and play around that aura-reading, with options to counterplay or deny aura reading on both sides.
-
@Kiskashi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/604719#Comment_604719
Getting BPS or escape cakes in a web is amazing, so nice when the survivor bloodweb pays off (for once).
That’s kinda unexpected but interesting, I rarely see people use maps even though rainbows track everything and give bp. I personally love finding good medkits, I never touch self care so med kits with added charges and botany, it’s amazing. I’ll have to try using maps more.
I agree that trapper should be able to carry 2 Traps as his baseline. I often don't run purple or red add-ons at all on trapper, in favor of a trapper bag + trap setting tools in order to mitigate his baseline set-up time and pick-up time. He truly is unplayable without a trapper bag.
If anything, I run Trapper Bag addon + any addon, in order to stick in a fun effect (Iridescent Sharpening Stone, Bloody Coil) without losing the functionality of Bag Trapper. Single - Trap Trapper is a waste of your addons if you run double iridescent/ purple, in my opinion.
On the topic of the thread, I will re-state that I always am very happy to get even a brown Trapper Bag add-on in my bloodweb. It means I can play my trapper another round, instead of having to swap to another killer (Legion or Plague or Wraith) to grind BP to buy more trapper bags for BP. He's unplayable without bag addons.
-
@Laakeri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/604689#Comment_604689
I feel the exact opposite. When I play killer and I make mistakes its 100% on me. But when I die on first hook, or all pallets are gone after someone else got chased for 1 minute I get really frustrated as that isnt in my control.
There sure are games for killers that are unwinnable before match has even starts as the true potential of survivors is much greater than killer. Yet how often you end a match as a killer and say "damm there was nothing I could have done different"?
I understand that, friend. I've been left on the one-hook by my teammates more times than I can count at this point, and I've felt frustrated, and have quit the game in rage, I know how you feel.
Yes, survivors get saddled with potato teammates that are basically killer-food that unwittingly turn their own teammates into killer food themselves. That happens when survivors don't play optimally.
What I'm saying is that, if you play killer, and you're up against survivors who are better than you, you feel utterly powerless. Keeping your time-management aspect in mind, it feels awful to say "I'm going to chase this good survivor for 65 seconds and eat their loops just to get them", knowing the enemy survivors have the sense to do gens. When you're playing with survivors who are good, you can at least take solace in the fact that your failure can be the point of a killer's failure - the simply fact of you getting hooked adds an objective for the killer - defend the hook. For potato teammates, that's a hindrance, but depending on the skill difference, you being hooked vs a camper can win the game vs good survivors.
regardless, I know and feel you. It sucks being teamed up with potatoes. But a lot of the time, killers need to learn to exploit potatoes to even have a chance of winning. A lot of the time, since I don't play Nurse/ spirit / billy too often, I feel like I was screwed from the start as a killer.
-
I main Trapper, one-trap or Bag Trapper depending on my addons, Trapper is my challenge mode, where I really try to be clever and beat survivors in a metagame / planning perspective. Doing it with one trap only makes me happier because I know that when I "win" (2-3k or more) I have won because the survivors can't deal with 3000 IQ random path traps.
I love playing wraith with my Bone Clapper / Soot Symbol - The Ghost addons because it is the perfect degree of fairness for survivors to have a chance to run, while also having insane mind-game potential around unsafe loops because your red stain, TR, and directional bing-bong are almost permanently suppressed if you play correctly. It really helps, and if you don't believe me, just try. Make sure you run BBQ n C, Sloppy, and then 2 free perks from there just to make it viable in under rank-5.
I honestly love Old Freddy, New Legion, and PLague, but their powers are either dead or terribly ineffective at slowing down the game when survivors can just play injured. I wish I could approach the game from a more strategic perspective as a killer, but these killers give survivors too much agency over their own powers to be actually good and viable. I still play them to farm points, though, since I don't care about my rank too much!
-
Most joyous thing I can find on a killer after prestiging them (Even Old Freddy) Is brutal strength because it isn't a 2-perk SF/Enduring combo you need to level, and helps you clear pallets on m1 killers. Really ends up making a difference.
Other than that, I cry and thank jesus every time my bloodweb gives me Yellow Trapper Sacks. Thank you, Jesus Christ, for blessing me with the one addon that makes my favorite killer playable.
-
Survivor : This is Not Happening, Dead Hard, We'll Make It, and Adrenaline.
I have bad ping, so This is Not Happening lets me accelerate gen repair while injured by hitting good skill checks. Dead Hard is very strong and helps me learn how to use it all the time. We'll make it, at max rank, lets me dispense heals to mitigate the common Sloppy Butcher and generally saves time with time-wasting healing. Adrenaline is end-game ensurance that makes most survivors unkillable lategame.
Ideal killer (Trapper) : I would run Sloppy Butcher, Brutal Strength, Haunted Grounds Hex, and Blood Warden. I think I'm good enough with tracking and mind-gaming to get pallets down, and my traps can compensate or obstruct most survivor-biased map features. My goal is to slow the game down enough without relying on an unreliable Ruin, while trying to build momentumn early by breaking pallets by mindgaming them down with Brutal, and by getting early hooks with Haunted Ground. Sloppy makes sure even if I'm not in range of a trapped survivor I waste their time trying to heal. Blood warden adds a sort of insurance that even Adrenaline can't help, at times. If I get a BW proc, most of the pallets are usually down, and other ones are trapped. I can use the momentumn of one hooked survivor, combined with the Endgame Collapse, to pressure survivors into unsafe hook escapes - they won't be able to heal because of Sloppy - in order to generate a lot of extra hooks for free BP / extra kills. It's weak to the generic 3 survivors genning 1-survivor I chase strat, but has been successful. Now if Only I could unlock the same perks again on p2 trapper....
-
I remember the dev-stream about the End-Game Collapse (EGC). Their idea of it being balanced was that sometimes the gate spawns are killer-favored (close together) or survivor-favored (far apart), and thus it was balanced because the killer or the survivor would be equally screwed some percentage of the time, and the other times, it would be balanced and ok.
I think it's quite obvious to say that this is not how the game should work. Every time one side is screwed over, it doesn't justify the other side being screwed over equally as much. I wish they would stop pretending situations like these represent balance.
If a survivor is in an unwinnable situation 25% of the time, that's still an unbalanced and unwinnable scenario. If a Killer is stuck straddling impossible exit gates 25% of the time, that's still unbalanced and unwinnable. Fix your game at the core instead of pretending that it's balanced around "sometimes one side has a 90% chance of winning, sometimes the other side has a 90% chance of winning". That's oversimplified, but that's essentially what they're working around.
Balance the game.
-
Killers get frustrated more easily because they have no one to blame but themselves. Survivors playing optimally and being marginally hard to find exacerbates the issues killers face and makes a lot of games feel helpless. It sucks to feel like you're in the feeling of an unwinnable uphill battle, especially then the survivor's explicit purpose is to waste as much of your time as possible.
A killer can lose the game within the first 2 minutes, and be simply riding out the game's corpse for BP if the survivors are good. They just need to learn enough self-control to not be verbally abusive in chat.
-
Play as a selfish gen-jockey and only save when safe. If you do 1.5 - 2 gens and get an unhook, you'll pip, which will get you into the ranks where your teammates are actually thinking about what's happening on the map and what their objectives are.
You can be sacrificed and still pip. Use that to your advantage.
-
Pop Goes the Weasel or Monitor and Abuse. I'd also like Borrowed time just so I don't need to grind Bill for it.
-
In addition or repetition to other's comments :
Haddonfield has some nigh-infinites if a survivor takes Balanced Landing. In addition, a lot of the house-loops are non-mindegameable versus a good survivor. Consider letting the gens in houses go (It's worthless and a waste of time to defend those gens) , and not chasing survivors through house-loops unless you have a good read on their perks and know they're not competent enough to abyse said loops. Don't chase survivors who goad you into chasing them through these loops, as it will almost always result in you losing time.
Survivors, in my experience on both sides, like to use the outer sides of the map, behind the houses, to rotate from gens and such. These areas are terrible to patrol because you lose a ton of time going to, searching, and returning to them (high hedge walls). If you're playing a trap-based killer, consider dropping a few traps in these areas to catch rotating survivors - if that time investment is worth it.
I always hook survivors close to the center of the street area if I can. Haddonfield isn't super big, but it's hard to navigate, so it's nice to draw survivors to predictable areas.
Learn where the crows spawn in each tile of Haddonfield. It's often very helpful to see a crow returning to its roost, because it lets you know a survivor came near there recently. Tracking on Haddonfield can be hard.
If you can't force a 3-gen, the game is over. This can be due to unfortunate spawns or otherwise, but Haddonfield is just one of those maps where if the survivors aren't potatoes, you're not taking away anything more than a 1k.
Best tip is don't play Haddonfield, and if you do play Haddonfield, don't take it personally. It's a mapping nightmare.
-
They don't need nerfs. Having to take two specific level three perks to make any killer that can't counter looping (Anyone but Nurse, Spirit, Clown, or god-tier trapper) viable is already bad enough.
Anyone who runs Spirit-fury / Enduring is already nerfing themselves to stand a chance against looping. The combo doesn't need changing unless you're going to rebalance the game from the ground up.
-
I don't use them anyways, because DBD isn't a competitive game, it isn't balanced as a competitive game, and the grind is terrible. I don't care how many survivors escape, I care about my points. Memento Moriis just lower the total amount of hook points I can get.
-
@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/597151#Comment_597151
This is not what the thread is about. This thread is about grabs being a disadvantage for the killer.
Grabs end up being kinda nasty for the killer when Decisive strike is added in the mix - a perk that is very, very commonly used. The OP notes in his original post that sometimes he can be messed over by a window vault grab with decisive, probably because the window for it is so short you feel like you don't have control over whether you strike or grab.
I'll tell you the real problem (for me) when grabs absolutely screw killers over : When a survivor with Decisive just hides in a locker right in front of you, knowing that if you open the locker, you'll immediately grab them and they can hit you with their shiny, new, unmitigateable decisive strike for a Legion's worth of stun. It ends up being a big issue because the locker becomes a legitimate safe zone, especially when it's near a generator (you don't want to leave because they'll get free Gen progress while you have to discover and find someone else). Forced grab nullifies the counterplay of "Just slug the DS user and move on".
It looks really bad to sit and look at the locker, not to mention it's huge time waste to either wait out, OR just eat the Decisive strike. Since killers don't have a timer for Decisive Strike visible anywhere, it's quite hard to gauge when a survivor's DS is down, even if you've gone and hooked someone else and stumbled upon the person with DS up. The forced grab ends up creating a situation where you don't know how long they have DS for, and you know you're going to lose time if you wait, or if you leave. It's extremely frustrating to have someone right in front of you in a position of legitimate invincibility when they should be solidly slugged and trampled over.
Part of this is just due to the huge duration of Decisive. I can understand it working if someone is being legitimately tunneled, but as of late I've just seen unhooked survivors jumping into lockers right in front of me even though I'm tracking them off of a previously successful hook.
So there's the big gameplay disadvantage of forced grabs for me.
Then there's a technical issue of grabs cancelling at random times.
-
I don't think he was stronger before the rework, but I don't like his new iteration. Is that an option?
-
They just need to fix maps, especially central buildings. Things like Wretched Shop, or Ironworks of Misery, Wretched Abbatoir, etc. end up having ludicrously long un-mindgame-able loops that waste so much time they may as well be infinites, as well as being able to be, in some situations, combined with other loops on the map that spawn. Also, they just need to flat out remove Haddonfield.
The Killer Shack loop is at this point its own minigame. Either you're good at it or you're not. On its own, it's a very strong loop - only when combined with other tiles does it become awful.
In the end, it's a mapping issue.
-
@Aikanaro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/593873#Comment_593873
He is an m1 killer, that has lots of things going on around him so he can just relax and use 1 button to get the job done.
You say survs only have to evade, memorize, get awake, escape from gens and he only needs m1? seems unbalanced to me.
You don't need to wake up against him unless you know he's using dream pallets, and even then it's almost better to be asleep because you can drop the pallets you know are fake while he's occupied. Survivor gameplay against him has a few quirks that may or may not come into play, but in the end, he's still a loopable m1 killer.
If you really think playing any m1 killer is a "sit back and relax" kind of deal, you probably need to play killer more.
-
Because the chase music is intended to be too loud to hear the survivors :^)
Being serious, I think it's to create a drawback for the survivor running everywhere but performing actions quietly. It makes a trail that a killer can see from a distance and track you, forcing you to either slow down and take longer to escape an area that a killer is searching, or just book it and take the distance from running over the threat of being found.
-
Playing against him today, he's literally an m1 killer. The snares barely do anything if you just drop the pallet early, and as for fake pallets- that means he doesn't have snares, meaning you can shut down his whole power if you just have a memory better than a single red ant and avoid dream pallets. Actually manages to be worse than a properly played Old Freddy.
-
Looping. This game's entire meta is literally based around trying to waste another person's time by running in circles.
-
Yes. The killer should have an animation where they hit a survivor after opening a locker, slugging the survivor at the foot of said locker. It'd be more believable, and stop a particularly stupid strategy where a Survivor with Decisive can hide in a locker to force a grab, which triggers decisive and functions as a free extra life.