runningguy
runningguy
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no it wont change a thing, people have either got it via buying it or using shards at this point and they still say "i dont want to have to use anti tunnel perks" so they refuse to use it.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038469#Comment_4038469
Tbh is even krasue that hated when no one plays her and I met her like only 3 to 5 times since her release and more mayers than even, even more of them than in 2017 which is funny kinda.
based on my matches, there are only 2 killers where every single player in the team still DC's at the start and thats ghoul and krasue. all killers see 1 person DC at the start but only those 2 killers have made whole teams DC instantly.
Luckily krasue isnt seen often so its not much of an issue but even the fact no one is playing krasue says that not even killers like that particular killer. seems pretty universally disliked by both sides.
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its not looking good for dbd tbh…losing 2 key licences in 1 year, hellraiser and halloween.
The game gets worse every year, repeated failed ptb, QoL updates postponed or failed, 2 iconic licences that helped put the game on the map are gone, cheaters worse than ever, 2 of the most hated killers get released (ghoul and krasue). Not looking good at all based on the past year.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038178#Comment_4038178
nothing is efficient v a good looper lol thats the point.
And yet looping is consistently being nerfed across the board. So there's no reason tunneling/camping/slugging shouldn't be nerfed across the board as well.
tunneling has been nerfed across the board via multiple perks available to counter it and basekit endurance. but thats neither here nor there, fact is you say you want killers to find other ways to play….they have done exactly that, camp and slug.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038170#Comment_4038170
Well, you did ask what we wanted. Killers have done quite well with spreading hooks, too, so I don't understand why so many are allergic to it. And it's funny to me to claim that tunneling is the most optimal and efficient way to play while also acknowledging that it doesn't work against strong loopers. So it's not the most efficient way, is it?
nothing is efficient v a good looper lol thats the point. thats why its smart to pick the weak link and tunnel them out not the strong looper. its not as mindless of a tactic as people think it is. its strong but it can be countered and it has its downsides like all tactics should have.
makes no difference that some killers can do ok spreading hooks…. many cant. some survivors can loop a killer for 5 gens, does that mean everyone should be able to do that? not all killers want to play the same, and to expect all killers to play how you want them to play is very unrealistic. just like how me expecting or wanting survivors to play in a way i want them to play is unrealistic, you can want it, sure, you can want the moon to be made of cheese too but its just not going to be a reality
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038148#Comment_4038148
so your comment of just wanting killers to find other efficient ways of playing was just flat out incorrect because you have acknowledged at least 2 other ways killers can play and you dont like them either.
I never said I didn't like them. Not only are you giving false equivalents, but you're putting words in my mouth.
why make the comment regarding survivors wanting killers to play other ways then? they slug and camp…. so whats the issue? you got your wish, killers found another way to play other than tunnel.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038137#Comment_4038137
Oh, there are other ways beyond camping and slugging too. Not that you would know that, because you don't give them a chance. But I've seen it plenty of times. Even in my games this morning.
As for looping? Looping isn't even efficient if no one else is doing gens.
so your comment of just wanting killers to find other efficient ways of playing was just flat out incorrect because you have acknowledged at least 2 other ways killers can play and you dont like them either. it sounds like what you want is for the killer to not find other ways of playing but to only play 1 way which is not as efficient (spreading hooks).
you say looping isnt efficient if no one else is doing gens but tunneling isnt efficient if the person they are tunneling is a pro looper that loops the killer for 5 gens.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038095#Comment_4038095
Playing efficiently for Survivors requires all of those, and coordination. That's why SWF is so strong compared to solo.
Also, who said that looping is the only way to play Survivor efficiently? Why do you bring that up as if it's going to change the truth about tunneling?
countless people in these forums alone have openly said looping is the only thing a survivor can do. i have even mentioned playing stealth and hoards of people have come out saying "stealth is dead due to so much aura reading" and they maintain looping is the only way to play.
you ignored the point regarding killers have other ways to play and tunneling isnt the only way… yet all efficient tactics killer uses is hated. so its not "we want killers to find other ways to play efficiently" at all because they already have….camping and slugging.
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@drag27 said:
Tunneling is unfun for survivors but sometimes its necessary
yea survivor mains (the entitled ones) are always quick to express what the killers do that isnt fun for survivors but have no problem doing things that arent fun for killers and when confronted about it they say to git gud or say its part of their objective.
Exactly! The survivors fun isnt the killer's job and vice versa.
I dont ever expect survivor to play in such a way thats fun for me. They play how they want, just as I play Killer how I want.
People need to just stop telling the other side how to play
couldnt agree more. do survivors care if im a killer not having fun being looped all match? hell no. do survivors care if im killer not having fun being blinded or hit with a pallet? nope. do survivors care if im killer and im not having fun while they all tbag at the gate? it doesnt seem like it.
if a survivor could and some can….loop a killer for 5 gens they dont care if the killer is not having fun, they dont think "ok let them down me because this cant be fun for them". Yet they expect a killer to think "ok the survivor isnt having fun being tunneled all match, so let them go".
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ye survivor isnt that bad. the main issue with soloq survivor are the survivors themselves. as a soloq player its way more common to encounter a toxic team mate that throws the match or somone that goes next or DC's or afk from the start. And thats before we get into the personal challenges people might have like cleanse 5 totems so they refuse to touch gens or the people that only join the match to get chased and refuse to touch gens.
as soloq survivor these are the main issues not op killers or slugging or tunneling or camping. If anyone has any idea how to force players to actually play the game and do gens i would love to hear it but you cant make people do gens and play out a match that they dont want to do.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038113#Comment_4038113
Bro come on. No one was named and it's not even a real account. The mods aren't here to delete. This is the best I can do.
And if you choose to click on it after being told what it was, that's on you. When these posts happen, people comment their disgust and they get bumped so more people seem them.
i know and i agree with you, people should know about it and its up to them to click on it or not. this is my exact view with naming and shaming cheaters… people should know who is cheating to report them and especially if they are survivor cheaters, people should know about them so others can have the choice of playing with the cheater or avoiding them since the names are visable to everyone. sadly, its against the rules on these forums.
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ye i originally played on xbox for a few years. i had no idea how bad it was until i played the game on pc. since playing on pc, console is unplayable for survivor for me. the delay in skill checks is astounding, i have no idea how i managed for so long on console. will never go back to console.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038024#Comment_4038024
Are we defending gore rn hahahaha
Nobody is scared. I'm letting people know because some get upset. It's not a real post. It's bait to get you to click on it and see the image. This is internet 101. And yes, it will be deleted, but it often takes hours.
to be fair, i can see your intent and i sort of agree with you saying dont click on it…. but in a way it does draw attention to it by you mentioning it. i wouldnt have known about it if i didnt see your post saying to avoid it lol.
also, its similar to the whole naming and shaming thing that can get people banned. cheating is wrong and bannable but drawing attention to the cheater by naming and shaming them can get you banned too even if your just raising awareness of it. wouldnt this be the same thing? the gore image is clearly wrong and the poster will be banned but naming the post that contains it is drawing attention to it so wouldnt that be bannable too?
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@Fuzzels said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037074#Comment_4037074
I wouldn't count jump scares and stealth killers as "horror". You don't know where they are but that's about it, there isn't anything actually "scary" about that. The same way I don't think turning a corner around a wall or building in real life, and getting momentarily spooked by walking into someone else that was also turning that corner, isn't horror or scary. It was just a moment of unexpected interaction
im curious what you would consider "horror" and "scary"… if its not jump scares and the unknown of where the killer is then what would be considered horror?
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037899#Comment_4037899
What we want is for Killers to find other ways to play efficiently (because believe me, they do exist). This Killer mindset that tunneling is the only way to play efficiently is the real problem, along with their refusal to acknowledge that.
Like saying looping is the only way to play survivor efficiently? or doing gens asap is the only way to play efficiently? ideally it would be nice if survivors found other ways to play efficiently (believe me, they do exist). killers have found many ways to play efficiently and each one of them survivors have not liked….tunneling, camping, slugging, S tier killers using meta perks.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037897#Comment_4037897
Because Killers still tunnel even when gens are dragging like molasses. Killers run four slowdown perks and still tunnel. Which shows that they will keep on tunneling even if gens were made slower by default. Which then means that gens speeds were not the reason they were tunneling to begin with.
when killers get matched with high performing SWF often they tunnel by default. i know i do. i could have a match v all soloq memers that wont touch gens but i wont know that going into the match. im going to tunnel from the get go assuming its a team thats going to do gens. That doesnt mean im tunneling regardless of gen speeds, it means most of my matches gens fly so thats the type of matches i prepare for.
You expect me to hold off on tunneling and play less efficiently incase survivors are meming around?
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@CrypticGirl said:
"Stop Saying Killers Should be Punished for Playing Optimally"?
I say, Stop Saying That Killers Tunnel Because of Gen Speeds, because that's not true at all.
not really sure how you can say its not true. As killer i never tunneled until i started getting matched with SWF more regularly and gens started to fly.
Its like playing 2 different games
- A mostly soloq match where players dont touch gens, do challenges like totems, dont work together which is seen more in low MMR, sure tunneling isnt needed which is why i never did it.
- A mostly SWF match (4 or 3 person, 2 x 2 person SWF) that dont do challenges, actually do gens and work together which is more common in higher MMR, this is where tunneling is needed because when players actually do gens instead of memeing around the gens fly which is why i started tunneling.
Simple race, gens v kills. fastest and most efficient way to kill is often to tunnel. Fastest and most efficient ways to do gens is often spread out, toolboxes, take chase away from gens, always have someone on gens at all times.
Is it fun for survivor to be tunneled out? no
Is it fun for the killer to have gens done and gates open in 5min? no
Both optimal plays and both reasonable in the race of gens v kills.
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@dirizio23 said:
can you name one of those situations? cant think of one
- survivors on hook when they have the option to unhook…. instead of trying to unhook, abandon.
- survivors slugged when they have the ability to recover themselves via perk…. instead of recovering, abandon.
- survivor being downed twice in a match, can be recovered by the team and play as normal…instead of playing the match as normal, abandon.
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clear signs of what direction the game is heading. fast paced matches, high mobility killers that can get into chase fast and down fast to compete with the gens flying fast. Matches last like 5min these days, the consequence of fast paced, constant chasing is what we are seeing….
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037437#Comment_4037437
I'd be curious to hear your take. What are your ideas for reasons people cheat? Particularly in cases like mine.
As for my take? There is literally no reason to cheat. Absolutely none.
much like you, i think there is no valid reason to cheat. just like i think there is no valid reason to DC or go next. But there are some that claim that DCing and go next is a result of knowing whats to come (tunneling, slugging whatever else these people find boring). so first time downed = DC. The logic thats been used by others has been to not address the DCing by punishing the offenders but by looking into the reason why they do it. This logic can be applied to cheating too…. maybe people cheat because they feel the game is unbalanced and they want to tip the scales in their favour? maybe they know they will get steamrolled if they dont cheat? maybe they get fed up with loops, doing gens, being tunneled, tunneling themselves so they cheat instead, essentially taking matters into their own hands.
Just to clarify, i dont believe there is any justification for cheating no matter what the excuse may be. My view is exactly the same as DCing….no excuse for it and harsher measures are needed to stop it imo. i just thought i would highlight that neither issues can be solved by addressing the why or the reasons for people doing it.
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while i agree cheating is an issue, shouldnt be happening and needs to stop…. its interesting that people are not saying "we need to find out why people are cheating so we can address the issue".
This take has been thrown about regarding DCing and go next… "we need to address why people are going next and DCing, not give penalties for it".
lack of anti cheat = cheaters run rampant. lack of DC penalty = people DC and go next.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037122#Comment_4037122
Well, there is not much you can do against Nurse, when she can see you. Her whole counterplay is around breaking LoS.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037084#Comment_4037084
It's not like devs can't just make her unable to see survivor aura while charging her blink. Spirit has it.
But doing that would make her too weak. Nurse is one of those killers with a broken power thats either too weak or too strong, party why they havnt nurfed nurse and shes always been S tier.
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i dont like friendly killers, its not only boring but it tanks the killers MMR so they go against easier players and potentially distorts kill rates which is used for balancing the game.
Either the killer is stomping the team so they turn friendly and let them escape or the killer is getting stomped so they give up and turn friendly which is the equivalent of go next for the killer.
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@azaxydbd said:
You realize how annoying that is? is not even a game, is pure wallhack cheating built in game to torment players, why wallhack is even a thing, should just run oOo i guess, those wallhacks is out of control, people not even learn to play good, they just have wallhacks(literally!), there is no way to justify a wallhacking killer that can teleport behind walls and 2tap everyone, and i forgot to ask, when are u going to address the no terror radius bug? the killers coming without terror radius at times.
the reason for the wall hack aura reading being so out of control is due to survivor player base that repeatedly say they hate stealth and they want chases, loops, interaction with the killer. sorry to say but the aura reading is due to the players wishes on what they want the game to be. it sucks, but it is what it is.
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@Fuzzels said:
The thing about horror games is that they're really only "horror" for the first playthrough, or in this case, the first 5-10 hours of playing. After you know what to expect, the horror is gone.
even when you know what to expect, it doesnt take away the horror element. i know what to expect when v myers or pig but the jump scares and tense feeling on the gen are still there even after about 3k hours. in door maps are the best for this. The horror and fear element has been taken away by speedy killers like blight and the scooby doo loops around a pallet like a comedy sketch
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035630#Comment_4035630
I personally don't.
There is required tunneling and unneccesary tunneling.
Which one would you call blight tunneling at 5 gens, running pop, painres, dms, grim?
I only have a problem with tunneling when it occurs on my friends without the experience.
This makes them feel bad.im not saying you personally, im just saying with so many people complaining about tunneling yet still play the game, if these people wouldn't play the game if it was stealth based then the tunneling issue cant be that bad. could be worse, could be stealth based and players wouldnt play the game lol.
Although for every player that has racked up thousands of hours due to the scooby doo style loops, there are players that currently dont play the game for that reason and would rack up thousands of hours if it was stealth based. i personally know people that tried dbd and stopped playing after about 100 hours because they didnt like the looping and wanted a more stealth horror feel.
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it does seem like there is no anti cheat…. there is one there but its pretty pointless. bit like the DC penalty….its there but pointless.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035803#Comment_4035803
While players would, initially, flock to a new assym (assuming it's good), it would likely be temporary for two simple reasons.
1: BHVR, like Blizzard when Marvel Rivals showed up and started stealing their OW2 playerbase, would "suddenly" deliver on a ton of promises and would lock in for balance changes/QOL that have been asked about for years.
2: BHVR would just switch up the roadmap and start pumping out licensed chapters, automatically bringing back players and drawing new players. Just look at what happened after the latest update: people started to loudly complain, and suddenly we got Stranger Things chapter 2 trailer, lo and behold, complaints died down a bit and was replaced with speculations and anticipation for the new chapter.
It would kill the new assym, unless it was exceptional, and then BHVR would de-lock-in and we'd go back to now.
True it does seem that when dbd has competition they pull out the big guns and start releasing licenses which proves my point… players initially leave because they find something better but then go back to dbd for the content not the gameplay.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035803#Comment_4035803
I don't know how you would call it a success when it was basically dead within a month. Look at that drop straight down on the player chart. When players lose interest that quickly, I don't see it as a DLC / content update issue. That's core design problems that just didn't retain players or spread positive word of mouth.
Some elements you mentioned like unique objectives and different escape methods were nice. The noise thing was literally every match. When the survivors start out hanging and are supposed to quietly wiggle out, everyone just spammed it as loudly as possible. Then most survivor matches were stumbling around in the basement for a few minutes until getting insta 2 tapped by someone playing the most min-maxed Bubba build. Pretty boring to me. And the single license nature of the game limits the possibilities for expansions.
like i said there was no content, there was nothing to do after the players maxed everything out. dbd has a p100 system and perks to unlock and chapters. TCM never had any of that which explains the drop in players. DBD has ups and downs and they get that by releasing content. i bet if dbd stopped releasing content the playerbase would drop. This has nothing to do with the gameplay of stealth being the downfall of TCM.
Also that initial drop wasnt due to players losing interest it was due to a major game breaking issue that took them so long to sort out. Playerbase dropped and there was nothing released to get them back. general stealth gameplay was still better than this scooby doo mock up horror.
i can only really go from my own experience but if TCM had p100's, better cosmetics, more maps ect i would 100% play it more. Im pretty sure im not the only one that feels that way.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035784#Comment_4035784
F13 is extremely miserable for killer role. I doubt there are only legal issues here…
i never had any issues with killer in that game, playerbase was steadily going up for a while, then the legal issues kicked in and it killed the game before they could address any issues. dbd has been around for nearly 10 years and still has big issues. its just a shame that f13 didnt get the time it needed to iron out any major issues that dbd has had due to legal issues.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035784#Comment_4035784
I went into TCM hoping for more of a real "horror experience" and getting away from the DBD competitive mindset. To my surprise and immense disappointment, from the first match I played, all my teammates were immediately making as much noise as possible, looping killers with door slams and the character that had the shoulder charge skill, etc. It was LESS of a stealth game than DBD from the start. Then the DBD comp mindset really set in for a game that wasn't remotely designed to accommodate it.
You still haven't given an example of the game you want that wasn't objectively a failure. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that to win an argument. I don't know how to make it work in an engaging way that would retain a viable playerbase. I would personally love something like a PVP version of Until Dawn, where its more of a horror simulation with players making critical decisions trying to outsmart each other. Again, idk how to make it workable in a way that would actually be fun.
TCM had issues at the start regarding shoulder charge abuse and various different things but they were being worked on pretty well. Shoulder charge pretty got stopped, loops ended up being pretty minimal and no where near as effective as in dbd due to 3 killers. Even the loops were better, there was more of a route to take which was way more interesting than the dbd pallet/jungle gym system.
As for players making noise, thats in any game, even in dbd there are players that grief and intentionally blow gens, get the killers attention, and sabo the match. Thats nothing to do with the game or style or stealth or interactions….thats just toxic players which is seen in any game.
i have given an example of a game that made it work in an engaging way. TCM. i believe if they handled the dlc and the content better it would be doing very well by now because the gameplay was better for both sides. killers had a team, no real loops to deal with, there was no dash slop killers, they had actual unique powers. Survivors had comms, it felt more horror like, more tense. More ways to escape, way more fun the doing gens. i stopped playing dbd and only played that game until i maxed everything out shortly after i found out they are stopping updates. After that, i went back to dbd….not because its better or more fun but because its the only option. Im hopeful for the halloween game, literally all that needs to happen is a stealth game that handles other aspects well like content, cost, maybe a long term prestige system similar to dbd and players will flock to it. i know i would.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035630#Comment_4035630
How do you make an asymmetrical pvp stealth game interactive and compelling for both sides? If you can answer that question, you could make a better horror game than DBD. Other games like Hide Or Die tried and failed.
i have already said other games have been way better than dbd. TCM and f13 were both better than dbd. the failure of both games had nothing to do with stealth. f13 had legal issues, prior to that the game was doing pretty well. TCM failed due to fumbling the dlc, the cosmetics and generally offered no content. part of dbd's success is due to being the only option available regarding asymmetric games, its this or nothing. its not due to the fact its not stealth based at all.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034148#Comment_4034148
I would never have 11k hours in a stealth game. Too boring
the fact that people have 11k hours with the "tunneling issue" and wouldnt have 11k hours with stealth says a lot lol. thats why i have no sympathy for the general player that complains about the state of the game…. people are putting the hours in so it cant be that bad can it?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035428#Comment_4035428
It stands to reason that much of this involves comms. Most of my matches at least some people are on comms. Yet here are the numbers. SWF mostly does worse than solo. That's just a numbers fact, and it's because parties operate differently. The thing you'll never fully have in solo no matter how much communication you get is empathy for one another. My friends and I take hits for each orher, throw ourselves at the killers feet, die for the team. That sort of thing can earn you losses, but we generally care more about each other and the overall experience than personal escapes. This applies to every group I play with. The upper MMR players are the only outliers because they're completely different sorts of groups. They're win-focused and high skilled.
Even if SWF overperformed overall, the chat wheel won't turn solo into SWF. The players' motives will still be totally different.
i agree it wouldnt turn solo into swf but it would push the escape rate up a little which from the numbers, i dont think it needs to be pushed up any more. solo is already 42% and this is with the tunneling.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035320#Comment_4035320
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/16N9O6ZHXXSI/dbd-stats-q12025-survivorescaperates.png
Only 4mans and only in high MMR, and 48% is pretty underwhelming for the best players there are when you consider they're are killers with 90% KRs. Solo does better than duos, trios, and 4mans overall. SWF isn't as OP as people want it to be. At least half my time in survivor has been in at least a duo and I have a 40.31% ER.
as you have previously pointed out, not all swf use comms. high mmr are the ones that are highly likely to use comms for an advantage so it does sort of prove that comms break the game to some extent.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931251#Comment_3931251
Why does this read as if ChatGPT created it? Honestly, if you're going to put out an opinion, take the effort to write it yourself.
why take the effort if chatgpt puts the opinion of the individual into words for them?
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the bubble is just as annoying for killer with the gates. i have had clear line of sight of both gates but cant actually see if anyone is opening them because the bubble hides them. when it goes away, oh red lights starting on 1 of the gates because someone was waiting by the gate for the last gen to pop.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035067#Comment_4035067
Well, not really. Once the mori animation plays, or if they're all slugged, there's nothing left to do. The Survivor has already done all they can in the match, so they've played it through.
thats not really true regarding all being slugged. people can have perks to pick themselves up or even unhook themselves but the game doesnt take these into account so people can still abandon even though survivors have the ability to get up, heal, unhook, do gens….play the game.
i have played a few killer matches where people have abandoned when all down but then the bot used a perk to get up and unhook the bot on the hook so im in a match with about 3 bots.
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lol i would love to have a chat wheel telling people i have hatch offering for main building but secretly its for shack….send them to the main building so i can get hatch.
generally a chat wheel would be nice to have, it would have a lot of benefit to soloq. wouldnt be a fix all kinda thing because some things cant be fixed but a chat wheel would be a step in the right direction if the devs want to close the gap on solo and swf.
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@crookedAbe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035006#Comment_4035006
Hatch is already in a killers favor, due to higher move speed and maybe a mobility power, what more do you need?
so if i bring an offering to spawn hatch at the shack, killer downs 3rd survivor, hooks them…during this time i have already made my way to the shack waiting for hatch…. how is that in favour of the killer? even if the killer knows where the hatch is going to spawn, if they are on the other side of the map, hooking the 3rd survivor, hatch will spawn before the killer can get to shack. Then there is a key, even if the killer find the hatch and closes it, a survivor with a key can still escape via hatch. There is no chance the hatch is in killers favour, i know this from the amount of times i have escaped via hatch myself and the amount of times as killer the last survivor escapes 2 seconds after 3rd gets sacrificed.
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unfortunately people need to understand that players may have their own challenges (cleanse totems, escape via hatch, get blinds ect). as a soloq player myself im always coming across people that seem to do nothing but i have learnt they were not doing "nothing" they just weren't doing what i needed them to do. If im looping the killer for ages and i see no one doing gens, they are doing totems or something, when these people get hooked i just dont unhook them, i do gens (my own objective). As long as people have individual goals that differ from the main goal of do gens, escape there will always be players that work on their own objective.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034262#Comment_4034262
It was so popular the events only lasted a week, were never extended, and havent been brought back in over a year.
considering they did the awful haloween event AGAIN and bhvr doesnt seem to actually listen to feedback from players i dont think the fact lights out wasnt extended or brought back means anything. How often have players asked for simple qol changes and instead bhvr decides to do their own thing and release updates with things no one cares about or asked for…the last update a perfect example…. the lighting on azarovs map.
ye i dont think bhvrs decision making is a true reflection of what people actually want and enjoy.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034148#Comment_4034148
Yeah, that's exactly what the Lights Out mode did, but the majority of the community hated it.
lights out was actually liked by many people. the problem was that the game and maps are designed around the current state of loops. a big issue was ghostface being able to stalk in the open while survivors couldnt see anything and they would get downed instantly. But still a lot of people actually liked lights out mode, more so than how many people liked the halloween event.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033986#Comment_4033986
The game was built around looping, because the thrill of the chase is the most fun aspect of DBD. Taking away looping is essentially changing the entire game as we know it, and that would upset pretty much every player. If there was a game mode that focused more on the Hide and Seek aspect of the game, then that would be fine, but making the whole game lack chase potential kills DBD's identity.
and thats why there is an issue. focusing on chase instead of objective. thats why people in soloq avoid gens, thats why people that actually concentrate on the objective gets scrutinised by the team and called a rat, thats why people get tunneled….they want to get chased? well the guy being tunneled is getting chased. Thats also why we have killers like ghoul, krasue and blight that are not fun to play against, chasing needs speed. looping in particular is part of the reason why killers camp and tunnel. killer hooks survivor, sees another one, chases them but the go-to mindset is loop so there find the nearest good loop and dont think about leading the chase away from the hooked survivor. It really is crazy how many pro loopers that can loop the killer for 2 or 3 gens loop the killer in front of the hook. The killer is thinking "keep the loop going, when that survivor gets unhooked im right here to get them". These issues are around because its a side effect of what players want in the game.
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@KeefCheif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033137#Comment_4033137
what am I supposed to do when I'm being chased by the killer if not loop?
lose line of sight…. its very possible, i do it often enough. run from pallet to pallet? i have also ran killers from 1 end of the map to the other by simply using the pallets and vaults available on my route from A to B and many times i have lasted longer in chase doing that than a lot of survivors that try looping. Its especially useful when near a gen or hooked survivor because looping near the gen that needs to be finshed or the survivor that needs to be unhooked will only keep the killer in the area which is one reason why gens dont get done and why killers tunnel. But lead the chase away by using the map to get from one end to the other can mean the gen can be completed or the survivor can be unhooked. its crazy how many people actually loop the killer right next to the hook, someone unhooks and they wonder why they get tunneled.
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@Anniehere said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033986#Comment_4033986
Sorry to jump into your conversation, but I'm curious about something you mentioned. You said the chase feels goofy because of the looping. If you could rework how chases should work, what would you change, considering the speed difference between the two roles?
i would change it so the game as a whole is more stealth based, stealthy survivors and stealthy killers. maps should be reworked to allow more ability to lose line of sight instead of loops. so run, vault, drop a pallet, turn a corner or behind a wall, try to lose the killer. there are lockers to hide in but the focus seems to be on chases so anyone using a locker is usually called a rat or someone complaining someone else was hiding in a locker instead of taking chase. super fast killers should be nerfed right down.
This would not only solve the goofy loop chases but it would help with making gens more suspenseful. Part of the reason so many people hate doing gens and find them boring is because they know the killer is in chase, know the killer is occupied so there is no threat, no worry, just sit on gen while the killer gets looped. the chase will usually last until the survivor does down so the ones on the gens know they are safe until that happens. But if it was more stealth based and survivors had to lose the killer instead of looping, people on gens wouldnt know if the killer is looking for the survivor they were just chasing or if they gave up to look for someone else. being on gens would feel a little less safe. i loved playing against scratch mirror myers pre rework, the tension on gens, walking around not knowing if myers is watching me, way more fun than going against blight or ghoul or wesker or any speedy killer.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033687#Comment_4033687
yes, 50/50's aren't supposed to be safe, but the point is not every filler should be a 50/50. They're practically unloopable
personally i think its a good thing to move away from loops. for years the whole scooby doo chases have been a joke in dbd. it looks and feels pretty awful. its almost like dbd is a comedy horror or a spoof of a more serious game.
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@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032882#Comment_4032882
Lol stealth with all the busted aura perks killers have these days. I can tell you never play survivor.
i only play survivor these days lol and my whole play style is stealth. killers run mostly slow down perks not aura perks. for like 4 months i have played 90% survivor.
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@Ghost77 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033843#Comment_4033843
The survivors should fall quickly because it's a horror game, and that way the killer can enjoy the experience. Sure my friend, everyone will want to play survivor with that idea.
there is a thing called survival horror where stealth and suspense is the point. if the survivor is discovered they have a limited amount of time to run before they go down. i would love survivor a lot more that way. gens are so boring the only way to make them interesting is by making suspense and tension. what is the point of having a boring gen to sit on….oh killer coming, its ok, there are 3 or 4 loops here im fine. less action, more horror would be good.
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033687#Comment_4033687
Thank you! I do appreciate you doing this. <3
they are not supposed to be "safe". the main issue with the game has always been that survivors have "safe" areas where they know they are untouchable and will always run there. like shack for instance
I've not heard this position before regarding pallets, so I took some time to chew on it. From a killer perspective, anywhere on the map that's -safe- shouldn't be. Makes sense for that side. But pulling back and looking at this situation from a video game standpoint, I don't see why anyone would play survivor if there's literally nothing you can do. If no pallets or loops are safe, what's the point? It's just buying a few seconds to the inevitable down.
Is this ok? I suppose for some. I'd wager most players wouldn't want to play survivor if they knew there were no places to play safely. Looks and gyms and shack are all there to be those safe places. But at the moment, those places are garbage and non-existent. Instead, unsafe loops and pallets remain.
Personally, I want to know I can run the killer for however long it takes without falling because of poor design decisions. This patch removed most of the ability for skill expression for survivors. (Then again, I feel the nerf to Blights hug tech did the same thing: just limited skill expression for killers. Sad) It will simply become stale very fast. I play both, but lean solo'Q because its hard af. That's what I enjoy is the difficulty and chases. Playing killer feels like loading into a buffet with bib and table set. Yeah, killers are eating fine right now.
so many people head for the shack because its often better to abandon chase and go for someone else than chase around the shack. survivors shouldn't have areas like that all over the map. you also shouldn' be able to run from pallet to pallet to pallet…its boring gameplay and part of the reason why killers tunnel.
Totally agree. Shack is a unique area and its deliberate. Its one of the better design choices imo. And I agree nothing like shack should be on the map other than 1. If I try to think of safe loops off the top of my head, Cow tree comes to mind, and sadly a few others but I cant remember the map names >.< Anyway! I agree with this, too many safe spots ruin it for killers.
At the moment, there's too few safe spots. Its the opposite. Now killers can get downs much easier and the game will likely spiral into a 3-4k by default. I played 2 hours last night with a friend and had 9 matches of tunneling out the gate. Wasn't bad when I was targeted, but the friend is 100 hours or so, and once he was targeted, that's it. ggs.
Should games be decided like this? If one survivor gets knocked out fast, this is supposed to be what the game is about? Its no wonder new players don't stick around. The amount of money BHVR is just not getting is due to these playstyles. I've yet to hear a good argument against it. I don't know, but I want the game to just… be better. It won't like this, and I don't know what to do. Adding in BHVr's sometimes '#########' decision logic, its like the only time the player base as a whole comes together: to yell at BHVR.
I'm… probably digressing. Apologies.
while on tunneling, i have always said if people want tunneling to be nerfed that much then gens need to be slowed to allow killers time to spread hooks. the answer has been a unanimous NO. fair enough, another way to help killers not need to tunnel is to allow faster downs so they can keep up with the speed gens fly. these smaller loops do this. maybe its the start of the anti tunnel coming in?
Maybe. I'd put my life savings on 'No' though. lol, thats giving BHVR far too much credit than is rightfully deserved at this point.
I know there's no correlation between gen speeds and tunneling, in the eyes of bhvr since data is all they seem to read, and really… probably why the game isn't getting actual fixes. Anyway, I'll go down this vein as if they were directly related.
If gen speeds were slowed down, I'd be ecstatic as a survivor and killer. I want my games to last until I die. Escaping doesn't do much for me personally, as I really play this game to get my heartrate up in a chase. The rest of the game is poorly designed to be 'fun'. No one enjoys a gen. No one enjoys having to mend every time Legion decides to run around. So much of this game is designed to be unenjoyable. It's honestly baffling.
So if gen speeds slowled down by whatever metric you feel is fair, you think tunneling would slow down? By a lot or a smidge? I ask because in the past, some things were changed with the idea killers would tunnel and slug less. (I dont have the sources at the current moment, but will dig it up when I can.) Data showed it increased actually, because it became even easier. So I cannot subscribe to 'do this, killers will stop X' Like bhvr, the history is there. No one believes BHVR will fix the game because they simply haven't and have lied too many times. Killers tunneling less due to X demand is the same thing.
Now, faster downs? Thats creeping into long chase territory and even you can agree that's bad for the game, yeah? Shorter chase? Less of the only thing that makes the game attractive? I dunno, I'd play less if both sides got stale like that.
I'd love to keep this going! Sorry for the wall o text, Im at work and have a lot of free time tonight lol. Hope your games are going well!
you pretty much hit the nail on the head when you said its buying seconds before the inevitable down. Thats the way it has been designed, thats why killers are faster than survivors and even gain bloodlust, so eventually the killer will get the down. its just a matter when. killer needs to kill before gens get done so survivors have to buy time to allow gens to get done before the killer can kill. Survivors having safe areas where they have no fear of being downed knowing the killer will waste too much time simply shouldnt be a thing. Survivors should always feel threatened, at risk, its a horror game about a killer hunting them. The game lost its fear element as soon as survivors were able walk up to the killer, look them in the eye with very little risk because they know there are 3 strong loops next to them.
as for tunneliing, gen speeds being slowed down would reduce tunneling a little, wouldnt stop it completely because as long as its a viable option there are people that will do it even if they know they dont need to. But reducing the need to tunnel i believe would reduce the frequency, by how much, i couldnt say but as a tunneling killer, i wouldnt tunnel if i had more time so all of my opponents wouldnt see tunneling from me for a start. But im not saying nerf gen speeds and all killers will willingly suddenly stop tunneling, for that to happen hard nerfs are needed such as the first ptb so tunneling isnt an option.