runningguy
runningguy
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@Anniehere said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040360#Comment_4040360
The hypothetical doesn't really match the situation I'm talking about. If a survivor had to perform skill checks, there should be a purpose or reward, otherwise continuing would be pointless because the outcome would be predetermined.
A Mori is different because of the cutscene, the match is already over for that survivor.there is a reward skill checks….its called BP. that has been the argument for why killers should hit people out, they gain BP for the hit. You did hit the nail on the head when you said it would be pointless though, this is exactly the same as what the killer has. hitting a healthy survivor at the gate is not going to instantly down them or block the gates without perks so the outcome is the same, they escape.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040372#Comment_4040372
Did they ever fix the stat pages counting abandons as escapes? I don't believe anyone's personal survivor savant claims as long as that's the case.
no they didnt, everyones escape rate is pretty much incorrect unless they dont abandon. im just going based on the OP stats saying 43% and mine saying up to 70% as a comparison as its all we have to go on at this point
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good argument lol will remember to note that down
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040451#Comment_4040451
I see plenty of people who say they won't play solo but not because of themselves. I almost never play it because I don't want garbage teammates who creep around edgemap because they're injured or leave me on hook to die because they have no gamesense, don't know how to read the HUD, and don't bring info perks to help them with awareness.
I'm never going to go along with this everyone-DCs-every-match stuff. Start writing down how often people DC and when they do it. I do that, and my DCs in my killer matches consistently sit around 3%-5% of opponenets. It's really not that bad.
If your survivor matches are very different from your killer matches wouldn't you assume those are different MMR levels?
literally 50% of my matches a while ago someone DC at some point in the match. i dont care enough to write anything down, i went by the stats page and looked at the last lot of matches played and about half of them someone DC'd.
you said it yourself you almost never play solo because you dont want awful team mates so you couldnt possibly know how often it happens. as killer your play style might contribute to the lack of people DCing. try soloq survivor and see how it goes in the real world.
they may very well be different mmr levels for my killer and survivor. it still doesnt change the fact im doing fine as solo survivor and have been for some time now. maybe my mmr was tanked when i was doing challenges and i wasnt escaping…my escape rate took a hit during that time so its possible my mmr did too.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040444#Comment_4040444
Hours don't make you good. They could also be mostly a killer-player for all you know. But this math still doesn't mathing. A 60-70% ER would logically put you in the uppermost MMR bracket where there shouldn't be potatoes. SWF isn't going to carry a bad genuinely player that far. Maybe to the one below that, but they aren't winning against the best killers on their servers if they're not at least decent.
I've played many killer matches where I've watched each player dodge in and out and load in separately, so I knew for a fact they were soloers. These people often play just as well as a SWF team, body blocking and taking hits at strategic times, watching the hud to know when to unhook, and doing the most for strangers. That's how skilled players play. So if you have people unhooking at stupid times then they can't be top tier players. As a mid survivor who is likely in one of the mid brackets even I have gamesense. I also still have no idea what decent killer-player is being fooled by stealth. You constantly say you have to tunnel to win against these stellar teams you go against as killer. Are your survivor teammates acting like those players? Because it doesn't sound like it.
it shouldnt, but mmr is broken as we all know. dont even need to be a new player. can be a very good looper but they are doing challenges or adepts. they can be amazing loopers and still not enjoy playing v ghoul so they DC. for years people have been going next when they dont like something so it wouldnt surprise me if survivors in particular have tanked the mmr in some way over the years. you say swf cant carry people but it doesnt explain why there have been players that play swf regularly, win a lot but then openly say they wont play soloq just after they got steamrolled. some people are good as they are, some people need the team. in my matches i get a mix bag of good players, players that DC at the sight of a certain killer, last night i had pro comp player that has an official team for competitions, sometimes i will have griefers, cheaters, i get a mix. my survivor matches are very different to my killer matches.
not really sure what to say regarding stealth… im just that good?
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040429#Comment_4040429
Lmao, ya I am aware you shouldn't unhook too early, I am quite clearly just talking about leaving you to die on hook and not just in endgame, first hook. If my sole goal was escape for just myself then the most logical thing to do is never unhook the other survivors since the killer might come back and go after me. Would also mean hatch spawns faster and if the killer finds hatch I can still play gates. This is the logical end result of the game play you are advocating for.
My escape rate from the stats website currently sits at 55% in the past 30 days but I was in those matches and know how they really went. That escape rate most closely matches the number of matches that ended in 3k+ and that is with me playing like a real teammate. Sure my escape rate is high compared to average but most of those were not fun matches.
as for leaving me on hook. i dont leave everyone on hook, just the ones i consider to not be helpful in my escape. if its a good looper or someone that does gens properly then i will unhook because they aid in my escape…doesnt make sense to let decent players die hindering my own escape. if its end game then sure, im out of there.
A 3v1 practically always snowballs into the killer winning so long as they are remotely competent in the role. I don't unhook right away and I assume a teammate is getting them if someone healthy isn't on a gen but just leaving someone is a surefire way to let the killer win.
i would like to add im pretty sure the asian servers have higher escape rates than the rest of the world…. its a known thing that generally people on those servers favour stealth and selfish gameplay. it explains a lot really. they play more like me and they escape more.
Conjecture, the only real data we have on the differences is the top picked perks from the Japan stats. People also claim there are more people playing on controller and that the average ping is better. Even if we assume all of this is true (which neither of us have any proof of) my bet would be lower average killer skill/harder to play on controller and fewer ping hits has far more to do with their escape rates than playing that way.
We clearly are not going to convince each other. I sincerely wish you luck in your matches but hope I never get you as a teammate.
if i go down in 10 seconds then yes leave me on hook. time is better spent doing gens and i cant get tunneled while im on hook. 3 v 1 does snowball but it snowballs faster if people are going for saves instead of doing gens knowing that player will go down in 10seconds anyway.
your thinking of hatch being a better alternative to doing gens pretty much sums it up. this is true in matches where people throw and avoid gens… i often dont bother unhooking them and i get hatch instead. clearly gens are not being done in this situation, only 1 can get the hatch and i intend it to be me. part of the reason i play like i do is because of how many times i saved people and in return i got left on the hook. i quickly learnt to change how i play after that.
my point still stands, playing my way works for me. i have fun, i escape, i dont get tunneled as much, i have no issues. if others are having issues playing as a team player then maybe its time to rethink how they approach the game like it did.
top complaints in soloq which can be solved playing my way….
- useless team mates….learn to rely less on them and it makes things a lot better.
- tunneling, stealth avoids being tunneled and looping so killer abandons chase which counters tunneling.
- cant escape and have a low escape rate…. my way increased my escape rate a lot.
with this in mind, when people are struggling and they see others not struggling then wouldnt it make sense to do what the players that isnt struggling is doing? not try to claim the game is something its not (team game).
cant argue with facts, my way works to the point i have no issues with soloq.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040429#Comment_4040429
you clearly underestimate how often killers get kills because survivors unhook too soon or when killers pick up 4k because they all try to save that 1 hooked player at the end. how many people get tunneled because they get unhooked before the killer has time to move from the hook?
You're describing bad plays and poor decision-making. I'd think with such a high ER you wouldn't have potato teammates, if MMR works just as well as you seen to think it works for killers.
even people with 3k hours can dc or go next or not bother doing gens. like i said before, there are some that have a go at soloq after getting to high mmr via swf that rely on comms then struggle in soloq. i know not all people are like that but i know of a few. i agree though, they are bad players which is why i often leave them to die while i walk out the gates.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040405#Comment_4040405
You are quite literally asking for teammates to leave you on hook or are you going to unhook yourself. If everyone played like you the kill rate would skyrocket and killers would need to be nerfed. You're describing a game that doesn't exist.
you clearly underestimate how often killers get kills because survivors unhook too soon or when killers pick up 4k because they all try to save that 1 hooked player at the end. how many people get tunneled because they get unhooked before the killer has time to move from the hook?
as for leaving me on hook. i dont leave everyone on hook, just the ones i consider to not be helpful in my escape. if its a good looper or someone that does gens properly then i will unhook because they aid in my escape…doesnt make sense to let decent players die hindering my own escape. if its end game then sure, im out of there.
But yes, if people can do gens and get the gates open and get 3 man out while i die on hook thats exactly what i expect. if im throwing the match then yes i expect to be left on hook while the good players do gens and escape. im describing a game that is…the choice is there for as all to make. i made my choice on how to play and i escape a lot because of it. i get tunneled less because of it. soloq is fun because of it. if you decide to play differently and play the team game then the results speak for themselves….people say its impossible, the dont escape, they hate it. so the question is, whats better? my way or the "team" way of playing?
i would like to add im pretty sure the asian servers have higher escape rates than the rest of the world…. its a known thing that generally people on those servers favour stealth and selfish gameplay. it explains a lot really. they play more like me and they escape more.
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@drag27 said:
I mean is it really that big a deal to watch the mori? sounds like a suggestion for salty survivors who got downed and then mori'd
to be honest if people took the 5 seconds to calm down after getting beaten and just letting the mori play out maybe there wouldnt be so many toxic comments. ok so you so you lost, relax, chill… when post match chat pops up say gg and move on. but nooo instead its a case of survivor gets downed…..blood boils and they rage….instant abandon and start flooding the end game chat with all sorts of toxicity lol
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google it lol there are a fair few
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040397#Comment_4040397
A description of the game likely written in 2016 and never updated has no relevance to the game of today.
MMR as currently implemented clearly doesn't work, why would I care what it considers a win when it pairs me with potatoes regardless?
its still relevant because the game system hasnt changed. at no point since 2016 have the devs changed anything that means the team has 1 common goal. they still have challenges, they still grade people based on personal escape, the escape rates players can see are still personal escape rates…its not team wins or losses it personal escape rate. if the devs changed it so the game had shared scores and shared wins/loss then you have a point but it has never been like that so the original description still stands.
The idea is that if there is a strong team then teamwork will benefit you and your chance of survival. going alone can be detrimental to you.
on the other hand, if the team is weak then working as part of that team can be detrimental, it can be better to work alone.
What you are describing is what you want the game to be, or expect the game to be….which is fine but you cant say the game IS strictly a team game when there is no evidence to suggest it and all evidence points to it being nothing more than 4 people thrown into a trail together each with personal goal and objectives and scores and escape rates
you dont have to consider it a win…you can consider whatever you want as a win. last 30 seconds in a chase could be considered a win if you want it to. i mean if a survivor does the totem challenge in a match then dies….they could consider that a win.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040391#Comment_4040391
Except it isn't four 1v1's. It's a team game, claiming otherwise is ridiculous. Survivor MMR being based on personal survival is likely a major part of why matchmaking is so messed up. I could escape every single one of my matches with every other survivor dying and have a 100% escape rate, wouldn't mean a thing, the killer won those matches not me.
i think this is where people are getting confused. it not a strict team game. Even on the steam description of the game is specifies you CAN play as a team or you CAN play selfishly. going at it alone is an option, its not just a team game.
you can consider it a loss for you if your the only one to escape but in the eyes of the game and mmr, an escape is a win for that survivor. killers could consider anything less than 4k a loss but in the eyes of the game and mmr 3k is a win…thats how it is even if you dont agree with it.
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@PriestessPoppy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040385#Comment_4040385
50%? like a fair and balanced game would aim for every player to have a 50% winrate
if we are going the fair and balanced game road then there should be 4 killers v 4 survivors…. cant have asymmetrical game with symmetrical wins. 50% escape rate means half the team would escape. that means 2k for killer….thats a draw for the killer. are we suggesting that a killer only needs 2 kills to win?
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040379#Comment_4040379
That's not the average as we have seen via stats so we shouldn't balanced based on your escape rate and now we just ignore struggling team mates so they can "get good"? I've always tried to help the weakest as its a 4v1 not a 1v1v1v1.
Most recent released I could find where high and low mmr is split.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TRPCZA8PETZP/image.png
I would be fine with solo being the same as 4 Survivors
like i said, i dont have anything that others dont have. im not a pro player, i use standard perks and get useless team mates like everyone does. The only difference is i choose to play stealth so i dont get tunneled as often, i do gens, i dont rely on my team as much as others do. As a result i have learnt to stand on my own 2 feet and support myself.
The OP even said their escape rate is 43%, thats above the average. its more than the devs 40% aim.
And the mmr is worked out by 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1. you are looking at this like the team is 1 unit, 1 common goal, 1 outcome….the team wins or loses. its not. its a group of 4 survivors each with their own personal goals for example half the team might be looking to escape but the other half might be looking to do challenges like totems or going for stuns. If you choose to help others achieve their objective thats great but in a way you helping the 1 person that has a challenge that they need to escape via hatch instead of doing gens yourself could be hindering the rest of the team.
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@00berdisc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040379#Comment_4040379
tunneling camping GG
these happen in my matches too yet i still escape…so yes, gg lol
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040375#Comment_4040375
no its bringing up solo q to swf levels.
I say something needs to be done to help SOLO Q who are not as good, then go on to say SWF has that and can use perks to give them more time.
Soloq struggle to use those perks effectively as they have no communication, letting soloq have comm wheel would allow them to try to do SWF plays with perks like shoulder the burden to protect the weakest player. if anything that gives them more time to improve as they get another hook state.im a soloq player with 60 to 70% escape rate… if soloq was brought up to swf via comms my escape rate would be even higher lol. soloq escape rates are about 40% as they are. I dont see an issue with it. i think instead of protecting the weaker player, the weaker player should improve, play differently, practice. Because if all weaker players improved instead of going next, DC or just ignoring any help given to them ("i shouldnt have to use anti tunnel perks, so im not going to use them"), then the killer would be faced with a team of good loopers that can hold their own without any help.
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@random1543 said:
I agree with you they need to do something!
as a solo q main I try to bait chase as much as possible to give team best chances but killers tend to leave and go find a weaker target. I've legit seen "oh you didn't drop the pallet and know how to loop, time to find new target 5 seconds into chase"
something needs to be there to protect the solo q team mates that are not as good.
Its kind of like the borrowed time situation as there are team perks that help SWF. SWF have perks like shoulder the burden which they can call out and save at last second giving as much time as possible.
I've tried to run shoulder the burden recently for few weeks and in soloq and it can help, but you cant communicate wanting to use on someone hooked so ALOT of time someone else will just unhook right in front of you as well as you cant hold it till last second because others will just get the save first.
If they don't want to touch tunneling changes again they need to are a bare bare minimum add comms wheel to the game so that a solo q team can coordinate better and try to give tunnel out as much time as possible. So many situations a tunnel out could of gotten more time if I could just say to my team "let me unhook", "I have shoulder the burden", "focus on generator repairs"so instead of players learning to get as good as you with looping, there needs to be something to help them deal with chases so they dont have to improve?
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@PriestessPoppy said:
As per my stats.deadbydaylight.com stats, I have a 43% escape rate and a 78% killrate, survivor in solo queue just seems impossible to play right now. Peopl;e are disconnecting and giving up more than 60% of my games probably and the players are just not good enough to survive tunneling. I know people did not like the anti-tunneling changes but really right now survivors in solo q really need something to help them. Especially in skill rating like the 4 survivors are always on 4 different skill levels, i notice this as killer and as a survivor. Please do something, just please please please
unfortunately there is nothing that can be done about players, if they want to avoid gens they will, if they want to just go next they will, if they want to DC they will, if people want to ignore all the advice given to them regarding countering tunneling….they will.
personally, the tips i would suggest for solo players:
- work on stealth as primary mode of play, its all well and good being able to loop a killer for 3min but if no one is touching gens its pointless. Do gens yourself but do it stealthily so when the killer gives up looking for you, you can get back on the gen asap. you cant do gens yourself when your looping.
- Think of looping as secondary mode of play when the primary stealth mode fails. loop like there is no tomorrow and hope your team is doing gens or the killer gives up chase.
- dont jeopardize your escape to help a team mate, you dont have comms, you dont have perk synergy to help with the save and to escape. it doesnt matter if they are on 1st hook, if all gens are done, open the gate and get out.
- take a hatch offering, in many solo matches you can pretty much bet that there will be people that throw the match. When they do, prepare for hatch.
doing these things has boosted my escape rate to 60% without hatch offering, 70% with the offering.
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not idea why such a drama about them being kids in the game…. its a game. if your relating it to real life and its wrong to kill kids then shouldnt this apply to the adults too? its all wrong but its a game. "i dont like the idea of kids being harmed in the game" but they are ok with men and women being harmed in the game?
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@Anniehere said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040270#Comment_4040270
I don't think these two situations are really comparable. One still involves interactive endgame gameplay, while the other is just a forced cut-scene.
i dont think thats a valid argument, your saying its ok to skip mori because its a cut scene but because killers have to actually do something they shouldnt be able to skip it? so what if, hypothetically, a slug had to craw to a specific location or do a set of skill checks before they bleed out? i can bet no one would want that but the slug can crawl, they would be able to do skill checks, there is gameplay…its not a cut scene. would this be acceptable?
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@saym said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040237#Comment_4040237
I’ve heard those concerns over and over again, but they wouldn’t be a major issue if rewards were added to Ranked mode.
Also, that problem is still happening even now, when the queues aren’t separated.
they would need to be pretty big rewards. a lot of vet players dont want or need BP, they have several characters at p100 and thousands of item/add ons. maybe throw in ranked exclusive skins, possibly shards….maybe, But even then, when they got the rewards they want its straight back to the casual mode to stomp
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@DevLinky said:
RANT
I played a few survivor games and I know why these guys are playing killer, all alone during the holidays. With no friends/family.
I really understand why. The sweatiest, most toxic people I've ever played against in DBD.
you should be thanking these lonely killers with no friends, if it wasnt for them playing killer during the christmas holidays then you as survivor wouldnt have any matches because there would be no killers lol.
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yep working….for now lol unfortunately my shift in work is almost over now smh
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040212#Comment_4040212
yes i would prefer S tiers nerfed. i know they are they only ones that can stand v swf teams UNLESS low tier killer tunnels. so that would mean all killers would pretty much need to tunnel not just the low tier ones. im fine with that.
Unless they tunnel? Tunneling doesn't work on these swf teams, this is one of the reasons they are 'too stronk'.
You're fine with all killers needing to win by only playing one style? I don't believe you and I will ever agree on how to make this game better. But I am enjoying seeing this perspective. Its very… interesting.
alternatively, low tiers should be buffed to bring them in line with S tiers so they dont need to tunnel to keep up.
So low tiers don't need to tunnel. Been proven. You're simply parroting the echo chamber in here. All good.
i dont see how people are jumping to the front with mmr? as a low tier killer player with no mobility (myers and pyramid head) i was doing ok without tunneling….im assuming my mmr went up after some time and then i got stomped. i didnt do anything to skip anything to raise mmr i just played normally. if i continued to play that way i would have lost so much my mmr drops
Ok, so step by step, we'll go through this. I want to make sure that I understand.
You play low/mid tier killer, you do well playing how you want to play.
You start getting harder teams. More competition. Now you're probably losing and winning a little more equally. You aren't winning every match anymore. Are these few loses something you find unacceptable? Is losing a match stress inducing? Did you typically have fun in a match win or lose? I need to understand what you aim for in a match to know what you need to feel… uh… I dont know the word. Had fun? Enjoyed? Fulfilling? Apologies, just not able to think well atm. Hope this is enough to understand. If not, feel free to disregard!
if anything its survivors that are skipping to jump in mmr by forming swf, using comms then when they play solo they struggle because they have used comms and their team mates to artificially raise mmr. it probably explains why some people cant handle solo but players like me that dont use comms or swf can handle solo.
This was knowingly coming. You are unable to have a conversation without pissing on the survivor side. Your mentality towards the survivor role makes you quite biased in most things. Im not saying this is a bad thing, its just a quirk. But imo, its not one I personally would want for myself. But you're simply assuming players who use comms cant play without them? Just gonna leave this alone with a big some ???????'s.
And with that I think I should stop. Ty for the engagement and have a good time in game. :)
tunneling does work on these teams. not all the time but no tactic works 100% of the time which is reasonable, but if the killer uses their head and tunnels the right player in the right way then yes it can work and has worked.
We are already at the that point of killers needing to play 1 way to win lol, noticed the increase in tunneling recently? i suppose killers can slug too but thats also frowned upon. you say this but then most people are pushing for anti tunnel, isnt that making killers play 1 way? spread hooks and thats that? no tunneling, no camping, no slugging….just hook, find someone new, repeat.
i never said anything to do with winning every match. i said was doing ok. i was winning more than losing, wasnt winning them all. then suddenly i started getting getting swf teams match after match and i wasnt losing the occasional match i was losing every single one. it got to a point where i was hoping my mmr would drop because winning v these teams wasnt happening. i had a choice, learn a way to win against these team, learn to be happy losing time and time again or simply stop playing. i started tunneling and then my matches became balanced again. i win some i lose some, i hit the target kill rate that the devs aim for thanks to tunneling.
i play to win, winning is having fun for me. losing isnt fun. certainly not fun losing when the opponent gives abuse after the match, and treats me like a play thing to toy with in the match. now i win more, they can and still do say abuse after the match but i still win so i get the last laugh lol.
i tolerate certain aspects of the game in order to win. aspects like going in a circle like comedy sketch scooby doo style chase. i dont always find it fun…unless it means i win. much like survivors tolerate doing gens. they are boring and no one likes them but they need to be done to win.
im not saying everyone that uses comms struggle, i did say why SOME people struggle in solo. i say this because i have personally witnessed regular swf players that use comms try solo, they get demolished and actually say "im never playing solo again" they couldnt handle it, they needed the team with comms.
you say i assume but it seems you assume that i assume lol. its not assumption when people have told me outright and i have witnessed it myself. Is it a safe assumption that you have no valid argument or explanation for the difference between a killer relying on tunneling to win and a survivor relying on swf comms to win?
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nope still not working for me. easy anti cheat not working which is preventing the game from starting…ironic really. with all the cheaters recently has EAC ever worked?
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040191#Comment_4040191
Would you rather the S tiers be brought low to match the low tier killers? Have the two meet in the middle? Or bring the low tiers up to A/S?
There are many ways to tackle this. But do they all work? Probably not. Will BHVR's eventual option work? Probably not. Should they stop trying? Definitely not.
but when these killers start going against swf with comms they cant keep up, they certainly dont delete decent teams consistantly. Thats why so many people have a lot of blight matches, ghoul, wesker, nurse.
This is why tunneling and such needs to be discouraged. People are skipping everything to jump to the front of the line in mmr, and complain when they get stomped.
Comm SWF is the END GAME for killers. Once you stomp solo'Q pubs, duos or even trios, they are nothing compared to a 4 man tightly knit team. THAT is the end game grind. Baffles me killers can't see this, and instead wish to complain instead. If you -did- get comms axed, do you see competition for the top killers? I don't. The complaints will roll over to 'killer is boring.' Ridiculous.
In that same vein, Survivors need to get their things straight too. Gens are one of the most boring aspects of the game, yet they are indeed too fast. If a team focuses gens only, the killer has limited options, and tunneling isn't even an attractive option in this scenario imo, especially if they're a good team.
BHVR has made this mess. The players are the ones who suffer and blame one another. Its increasingly getting more gross how humans treat one another behind a screen.
But hey, DBD be DBD.
yes i would prefer S tiers nerfed. i know they are they only ones that can stand v swf teams UNLESS low tier killer tunnels. so that would mean all killers would pretty much need to tunnel not just the low tier ones. im fine with that.
alternatively, low tiers should be buffed to bring them in line with S tiers so they dont need to tunnel to keep up.
i dont see how people are jumping to the front with mmr? as a low tier killer player with no mobility (myers and pyramid head) i was doing ok without tunneling….im assuming my mmr went up after some time and then i got stomped. i didnt do anything to skip anything to raise mmr i just played normally. if i continued to play that way i would have lost so much my mmr drops….which means thats 1 less low tier killer in high mmr due to being knocked down in mmr because they cant match swf. in the end it will result in swf teams and high mmr getting matched with blight, blight, blight, nurse, blight, blight, blight…. no myers or pyramid head because without tunneling they cant stay in the high mmr.
if anything its survivors that are skipping to jump in mmr by forming swf, using comms then when they play solo they struggle because they have used comms and their team mates to artificially raise mmr. it probably explains why some people cant handle solo but players like me that dont use comms or swf can handle solo.
i dont think tunneling needs to be discouraged any more than comms needs to be discouraged. all part of the game. tunneling more so part of the game actually as its actually part of the game….comms are not part of the game. like i always say, its a race. gens v kills. fastest way to do gens is rush them, no messing about. fastest way to kill is often to tunnel especially if its a weak link in the team. may the fastest side win. Which is why my suggestions to stop tunneling is make the match last longer, make gens take longer so killers have time to spread hooks. that will never happen because no survivor wants to spend more time on a gen, so looks like we are stuck with this speedy, all go, rush fest.
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merry christmas to you too steam smh
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040181#Comment_4040181
I understand, we all have our issues. But as a human being, keep trying. I believe in you! <3
But I like interacting with you. So can we play? All killers are indeed buffed. Even Trapper feels a bit easier to win with, and he's all I play. When basic gameplay killer side deletes decent teams consistently, killer side seems to be weighted.
Last two patches, how do you feel they were favored, if at all?
if all killers have been buffed then its not enough. low tier killers perform ok when playing new players or casuals or even solo players. but when these killers start going against swf with comms they cant keep up, they certainly dont delete decent teams consistantly. Thats why so many people have a lot of blight matches, ghoul, wesker, nurse. The S tier killers are the only ones capable of standing toe to toe with these teams in a lot of cases. Which explains why so many killers tunnel, its the only way to win and it essentially self buffs the low tiers to get on par with S tier. i think last year of patches has been a disaster not just the past 2, the devs nerf the wrong killers like skull merchant and leave the super fast S tiers like blight as they are. even the ptb to counter tunneling was done all wrong, they concentrated on a global reward/punishment system which only made low tiers worse than they are but it made little difference to S tiers because they can fly across the map. The recent killers like ghoul and krasue are awful, but thats the direction the game is going…. speed.
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040172#Comment_4040172
They're venting frustration with the game. For once, can you just not? Reach way down and really try. Also, Trapper is fine as is, tbh.
cant help myself lol
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@azaxydbd said:
ur either elite 4men or a comp ready team to win ur games nowdays as survivor, depend on which area ur from, some countries have it easier due to killers lack of skill, and some countries have it rough, overall the 50-50 pallets and the bad servers are whats ruining the game for me ngl. also dead zones and stuff like that, u not meant to survivor those games lol, the game makes sure u lose, unless ur a comp ready team ofc. then u win by genrushing and dying in corners.
im regular soloq survivor… i just happen to have a competitive spirit. i win a lot of my matches. As for gen rushing, thats literally the goal of survivor. do gens as fast as possible and escape before the killer can kill you.
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@FusedGod265 said:
Game used to be fun til they basically buffed all killers and nerfed any good perks for survivors. 8 out of 10 matches 4k deaths didn't even get a chance at the hatch. Used to be one of my favorite games but when you die every match it's just not fun anymore. We're not all uber try hard survivors. All I'm saying is its just not as fun anymore like I wanna a casual fun match dying constantly isn't fun. All I'm saying is used to be my num 1 go-to now I'm thankful there's arc raiders cause its sad but it's just not doing it for me anymore. Waited so long for attack on titan to come back an now I go into 1st match like aw dbd fun by the 8th game I'm just walking away from my control saying nooooope nope uh uh I'm out.
lol buffed all killers…. tell that skull merchant and trapper.
its a pvp when 1 side is trying win a pvp (which is normal), do you expect to win without trying very hard? if you want to win you have to try or understand you probably wont win if you dont
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040022#Comment_4040022
If no one knows their MMR then there's no real basis for comparison. I mostly go against sweaty survivors who coordinate well. I don't think it indicates anything except that I play at 2am.
i would say it more reasonable to assume after years of getting high kill rate to be in high mmr than it is to assume years of high kill rate and still be in the lower mmr. thats just logic. we dont know the mmr so the only basis we have is whats logically more likely. we could all be wrong and mmr doesnt even exist but we are told it does exist and kills increase mmr, even if its slightly.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040011#Comment_4040011
Maybe we'll see when we can actually see our teammates' perks. For now, I'm not going to assume that anyone is running anti-slug perks (because 99% of them don't).
thats a fair assumption, but the point is this is a fraction of hope if there are perks in play. without perks, there is no basekit to get up when all are slugged just like there is no basekit way for most killers to get a down on a healthy survivor at the gate. even when downed they fall out the exit. so if having no hope is a means to justify the abandon option and skip time being wasted then this no hope has to apply to killers too.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039991#Comment_4039991
A killer that is maintaining a very high kill rate and getting 4k match after match for years is also winning the vast majority of their matches. Why would a killer that is doing such ever think the game is survivor sided? Yet this seems to be the exact attitude many have, not all of course. Even if we assume that this is solely because of matchmaking, you can't get into a non-custom match without going through matchmaking.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040011#Comment_4040011
OK, one survivor gets up. Now what? Most likely just a doom spiral as the killer realizes and downs them or whoever they pickup or unhook until everyone is down again. The chance of the survivors rallying against an even semi-competent killer in this scenario is unlikely. Could it happen? Sure, but probably not in solo queue and if swf then you know if someone has something or not. The chance of crawling to hatch is basically zero unless you know someone brought an offering, happen to be nearby, and are going to be the last to bleed out.
The actual endgame just sucks in nearly every scenario. All survivors in gate, slug for 4k, everyone slugged, 2v1, all bad. Would I care if the killer could abandon if every survivor was in an exit gate or a similar scenario, not even a little but BHVR seems to be having trouble treating abandons appropriately on the stats site and won't say how they are being counted in the official stats.
- the fact that a killer getting high kill rates then gets pushed into high mmr where the swf seal teams live where the kill rates suddenly drop means its survivor sided unless they even it out. killers even it out by either playing s tier killers or tunneling or sometimes both.
- if slugs are spread out the killer cant protect everyone so when the killer is camping 1 slug another can be revived, now there are 2 survivors…killer has to chase 2 people and protect 2 slugs…. how? im solo player and this has happened v a slugging deathslinger pretty recently. i have even managed to crawl to 1 of the hatch spawns when i have been slugged and i have escaped this way. it was very lucky but it has happened. my point is that these situations have a tiny sliver of chance to escape yet survivors can abandon and skip it. This tiny sliver to get a kill v healthy survivor 1m from the exit is much the same. is it possible the survivor messes up and the killer gets a down yes but its highly unlikely, just as unlikely as a survivor able to crawl to the hatch when slugged
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039991#Comment_4039991
MMR isn't as simple as everyone wants it to be.
First off, I think the one thing just about all of us agree on is that the matchmaking is poor. They're are only four brackets and there's a good chance you'll be matched with people who appear to be in a different one than your own. The people I'm matched to have more to do with the time of day than anything else I can ascertain.
MMR gains and losses aren't some 1 for 1 number. If you're a killler who gets paired with three survivors in lower-mid and one in uppermost but you only kill the three lowers, you're going to get a lot less MMR from those three than you would have from the other, and you're going to loose a little for that one escaping. Special events, like Haunted by Daylight and Bone Chill, affect your stats but not your MMR. So your personal stats don't always reflect your MMR level.
Than there's the abandon system. If we go by what Balrog said (and we still have no clarification) you don't gain MMR from bots, and there's more and more ways to abandon. So if you go into matches and just slug people until they abandon, you'll gain kills in stats but not MMR. In my last 275 matches I had 196 abandons. That's 17% of my opponents who I didn't gain MMR from but still beat.
This is only talking about killers too. There's plenty of assuming survivors in this forum, but a high ER doesn't mean they're super skilled. The abandon let's you remove bad games from your stats. You said yourself people get downed on purpose to abandon. This happens in my matches daily. The result is the survivors don't loose their MMR or gain a loss on their records, and I don't gain MMR yet I gain kills. So you have survivors with inflated stats and MMR, and killer's with stats that might not reflect their MMR, plus matchmaking so bad it doesn't even matter. How worthwhile is a system like that for assuming or discussing anything?
true but like i said if a killer is getting 4k often for years then notices a huge difference in matches and an increase in swf then its a reasonable assumption to assume they are in high mmr. even having less mmr for killing easy players, after years it would add up
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4040005#Comment_4040005
much in the same vein, survivors are ok hiding all match up to an hour when its 2 v 1 hoping 1 dies so the other can get the hatch but they complained about 4min? cant tar everyone with the same brush and not expect the same in return
Except in that situation, there is still hope. When everyone's slugged, there's no more hope.
there is hope when everyone is slugged, someone could have a perk to recover. slugs can move….when all spread out the killer cant defend all slugs, a slug could crawl to a hatch spawn location so when the other 3 bleed out hatch is an option. there is just as little hope for a slugged survivor as there is for the killer with literally no possible way to down a healthy survivor standing 1m from the exit so you cant swing the "hope card" to justify kicking up a fuss over wasted time because it still applies to both sides
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039993#Comment_4039993
Interesting how Killers lose their #### over waiting two minutes for Survivors to leave, but they're fine with waiting twice as long for Survivors to bleed out.
thats making the assumption that all killers that are complaining about it would slug for 4min waiting for them all to bleed out….. which is unlikely the case. i know i havnt intentionally left someone bleed out for 4min because i play to win not to be toxic.
much in the same vein, survivors are ok hiding all match up to an hour when its 2 v 1 hoping 1 dies so the other can get the hatch but they complained about 4min? cant tar everyone with the same brush and not expect the same in return
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039994#Comment_4039994
Youre just talking about some minor edge cases nobody cares for. It would be great if you could stop your "us vs them" mindset, and actually start using reasonable arguments.
this situation is pretty common actually. especially with killers actually try to slug but failing to do so which results in people being recovered. the only us v them i see is you saying its 1 rule for us but a different rule for them. im saying both sides should have equal choice and your argument of "killers are cutting their practice by abandoning" isnt a good argument because survivors do exactly that. i would argue survivors have been doing that for years with the whole go next mentality where people would suicide on hook. the failed at looping, go next hoping the next match will be easier. killers dont get that choice and never have
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039672#Comment_4039672
It cant. You clearly do not understand that lack of skill isnt an issue there cause the game is designed to get downed several times. And while being downed there isnt any value of stayxing in game if it happens this often. Its basically inevitable to get downed. Please stay objective.
if a survivor is downed then killer chases a flashlight player away, that downed survivor gets healed. if the killer find that same survivor again and downs them but someone sabo the hook, killer puts them down chases after someone else but find its a strong looper so drops chase…that downed survivor gets healed. 1 gen popped…. killer 0 kills and 0 hooks. if that survivor is not able to last 10 seconds in a chase then yes its lack of skill because they cant loop very well. the match is going on, survivors already have 1 gen done and killer has 0 hooks…. that survivor that went down and got recovered twice is at full health and ready to try looping again. they go down near a pallet, killer chases a survivor away….that downed survivor now has a choice. practice looping when they are recovered for a 3rd time, or abandon.
This situation is the survivor not being able to loop as good as others can resulting in being downed fast. its ok for survivors to abandon and not practice, not improve an aspect of the game they struggle with, not gain the experience of trying to loop a particular killer, just abandon but it not ok for killers to abandon and cut their practice and experience?
Each time a survivor abandons or DC's or go next when they have the option to practice looping is essentially screwing themselves over by not taking the opportunity to gain experience
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039969#Comment_4039969
Here you can find people who say they play at the highest MMR and say things like "90 second chases are fast" or claim that Survivors "abuse" the AFC because they did not realize that the Survivor they were chasing next to a hooked Survivor has left the area and they chased themselves for so long that the Feature triggered.
How dare you imply that these all people who know they're upper MMR because vibes could be wrong. Everyone knows that if you want to be upper MMR then you are. It's a wish-based system.
while you are right some people believe they are in high mmr when they are not but when people maintain very high kill rates for years then logic says they would or should be in high mmr. if someone getting 4k match after match for years doesnt get someone into high mmr than im curious what would?
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@Khastrx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039879#Comment_4039879
Can we stop using SWF as an excuse. Not every player is in a SWF and even then there are plenty in a group that are just casual jimmies, they are not comp or navy seals or going to roll every single killer, they are just some players wanting to have a little fun with friends. Good SWFs are a problem sure, but if BHVR actually implemented a way to recognise when a group is preformed in a lobby they could have addressed this issue long ago.
generally the swf team that goof around and just want to have fun are in the lower end of mmr. people dont get to high mmr by messing around, they play to win. so the good swf teams that are a problem are more common in high mmr. Also in high mmr you will see more blights and s tier killers because they are pretty much the only ones that can stand these teams which is why things are fairly balanced and swf escape rates are not higher. what happens when a low tier killer gets pushed into high mmr? they get demolished….unless they tunnel.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039925#Comment_4039925
while survivors can skip the mori sequence, killers should be able to skip the gate sequence.
While I'm not a fan of abandon in general, these aren't equivalent.
The Mori is literally a cutscene because the match is already over, the end game (even the collapse) is playable time because the match isn't over yet.
There's a massive difference between "the game is literally, actually over" and "I could play this out and even have the base kit ability to cut this short if I wanted to, but I don't want to do that."
You might as well complain that people are skipping end game chat for all the relevance that has to "gates are open".
thats not the point at all. even without the mori, last person downed can just abandon even if the killer just hooks. They could have DS or wiggle free when killer is hooking but they still have the option to abandon.
killer downs a survivor twice, they get healed twice….they can play it out, the match is far from over but yet survivors can still abandon. Its about the choice. killers with no basekit ability to down a survivor at the gate knows the match is over regardless of technicalities. i mean teachnically when all survivors are slugged, match isnt over…. 1 can still crawl to the hatch location and get a lucky escape.
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039917#Comment_4039917
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039913#Comment_4039913
i'd argue that it has the potential to serve both purposes, allowing survivors to escape excessive slugging or unplayable experiences, while also skipping things that waste time (mori animations at the end of the game for example). both situations are the equivalent of skipping a cutscene to me and i see it justifiable, since things like cinematics or waiting for players to leave does not contribute to the core gameplay.
i can agree that the abandon feature is being misused, but also at the same time who's to say that it really is getting misused if the person is simply tired of seeing the same things over and over again and would like to move on? i'm not defending the serial disconnectors, the people who refuse to play the game, or people who "forsee" an outcome and pre-emptively leave, but i can understand if someone quickly wants to move onto another match because something is genuinely a waste of time or isn't necessary.
the problem is how do you account for those who misuse it? it's like the usage of a gun. a gun is a useful tool for hunting, gathering, or destruction of an object. yet, it can also be used to murder or cause undue harm. unfortunately there's really no real answer to something like that outside of either allowing it for everyone regardless of the circumstance, or simply not allowing it at all.at least i can't think of a way you could successfully stop malicious intent without limiting those who do have reasonable intent.
exactly. "allowing it for everyone regardless of the circumstance, or simply not allowing it at all."
Thats what i have been saying from day 1 and what many killers are suggesting. Allowing it for ALL, including killers. which is why killers feel hard done by, survivors are allowed it but killers are not.
while survivors can skip the mori sequence, killers should be able to skip the gate sequence.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039909#Comment_4039909
Two minutes? If you go hide in the basement and cry, sure, but you can just push them out in seconds. That isn't the case if a killler is humping you to death for 4 minutes.
Also, you could argue the opposite. Survivors get to leave matches more because they lose matches more (which is a statistical fact) and want to move on faster. I hate the abandon feature but I'm pretty sure it's there to make survivors hop into another game faster instead of getting annoyed with their 5th mori of the session and logging off instead.
actually the abandon option was designed to prevent survivors being needlessly humped for 4min. it was designed as a way to get out of a hopeless situation instead of having time wasted for no reason. The abandon option has been used far beyond what it was designed to do. Now its used as a skip 5 to 10 seconds of mori (dont see why killer cant have abandon to skip 5 to 10 seconds of hitting people out the gate, thats what survivor currently have). Also used as a free go next. one throws, the team quickly finds out whats happening and decides "this match is a bust" and they all throw…when all downed or hooked all abandon, go next penalty free. i have seen players stand by and watch as team mates drop then last player runs out not to help the team mates but gets downed intentionally just to abandon.
My point is the abandon option was designed to let players out of a hopeless match where all are downed, saving them 4min. It has been used far beyond its purpose which is why so many killer feel they should either get the same choice or the survivor side abandon needs to be reworked.
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@jedimaster505 said:
ya but the killer mains cried the loudest so they got what they wanted. blight, Spirit and singularity all need big nerfs, plus a global nerf to killer role since it's easy mode in 2025
to be honest i would say SWF on comms is easy mode. but it wouldnt be fair to say all survivors need a global nerf. Likewise, blight and ghoul and general speedy killers is easy mode, but a global nerf to all killers? no.
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good way to counter tunneling is:
- stealth…. thats not hiding in lockers all match, by stealth i mean do gens but dont get seen, when in chase walk around corners, lose line of sight and lose the killer.
- when stealth fails, loop…. if you loop well enough the killer will either throw the match by over committing or they will be smart and abandon the chase to go for a weaker player.
I recorded a full match recently v bubba, in the first like 10 seconds of the match he was on me so my stealth failed. i kept him in chase for about 1min 30sec then just before he was about to lose 3 gens he abandoned that chase. He chased me again a few min later and i took him to shack where he stopped chasing me again, pretty much ignored me the whole match after that point. if i was a weak looper and bubba decided to tunnel, i would have been out fast but the fact i wasnt an easy down for him meant any tunneling potential was countered.
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@Divine_Dust said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039830#Comment_4039830
Well the idea would be that you can get the mori if you get 5 total or 4 unique hooks before the first death. If the mori was at it conceptually strongest, it could be used on anyone regardless of hook state. So you could do something like this:
Survivor 1: 0 hooksSurvivor 2: 2 hooks
Survivor 3: 2 hooks
Survivor 4: 1 hook
And get the mori to use on survivor 1, bypassing two hook states and at least two hits.
So if there was one really good looper and three average survivors, would you rather tunnel out one survivor for three hooks or get five hooks on the rest of the team with a mori you could use on the looper so you only have to win chase against them once?personally, i would still tunnel because its still faster to take out 1 player with 3 hooks, i dont have to spend ages trying to find another survivor, hope that survivor isnt a pro looper. i know the first one i hook is the weak link so its often best to stick with what i know. i know they are a weak looper, i know they are injured already, i know where they are (roughly), i know they are easier to find when injured, i know 2 more hooks and they are out. The mori on the 1 strong player is good but it still requires me to actually down them which could take longer than downing the weak player 3 times from the start. Not only that but i know if i leave the strong looper for last then it wont matter how long they can loop for they will either get the hatch or they will die to EGC.
There is also a problem if there is 2 good loopers and 2 weak loopers. taking out 1 weak looper to bring it to 3 v 1 fast is crucial and far better than taking on 1 of the 2 pro loopers to get a mori when i could have just taken out a player long ago. even 1 good looper can loop the full gen time, if all 4 players are in play 1 looping and 3 on gens thats 2 gens left by the time i have 1 kill.
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@Divine_Dust said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039822#Comment_4039822
Would the ability to mori a 0 hook survivor after getting 5 hooks incentivise you to spread hooks at all?
not if it means i have to get a fresh hook on all 4 survivors because all it takes it 1 strong looper to put a stop to the hooking and deny me the mori while keeping all 4 in the match, 3 could be downed easy but then i would hit a wall v that pro looper which is why i usually go for the weak link so it would be faster to tunnel. to be honest the only way i would stop tunneling is if gen speeds slowed down to allow me time spread hooks. But currently gens just go too fast and i dont play speedy killers like blight and ghoul so i cant keep up with the speed of gens popping, hence the reason i tunnel. its not to be toxic or annoying or because its easy, its because its necessary for me to do it to be able to get a balanced match, to keep up with the pace. like i always said, its a race, gens v kills. fastest one wins. slow the gens down, slow the kills down.
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cheaters are rampant, had them all, killer cant hook, insta healing, speed hacks, wall hacks, just had a spirit with no cooldown on attacks and insta downs.
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@Divine_Dust said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4039817#Comment_4039817
The idea would be that you could mori any survivor once you unlocked the ability, and the mori didn't go away until you used it. It would be guaranteed skip one hook state (so at least one hit), but you would use it to bypass a long walk to a hook, a pallet/flashlight save, or to remove a difficult survivor.
You would also be bypassing the basekit off the record, which could already add two extra hits to the 4 hits needed to hard tunnel, not to mention anti-tunnel perks like decisive strike, reassurance, shoulder the burden, as well as bodyblocks from the other survivors.
It is slightly weaker than hard tunneling if hard tunneling goes well, I'll give you that. But hard tunneling does have counterplay, after a bodyblock the killer might be more incentivised to swap targets to get progress on the mori. They might also get into a chase while the first survivor is on hook. One split hook changes the calculation, especially if they unhooked during your chase.
For example, if you have hooked survivor A and survivor B, and survivor A has just been unhooked by survivor C and you can make it to chase either survivor. You could choose survivor A, but you would have to wait at least 15 seconds for the basekit BT, at which point they could make it to a loop, or you could choose survivor C. If you know you can catch survivor C quickly for the first hit, then both A and C are as basically as easy to hook as each other.So which survivor you chase would come down to who gets you the most advantage, if you choose survivor A then you are two hooks away from a death, with a potentially easier chase and easier time to find them. If you choose Survivor C you are also potentially two hooks away from a death if you can find survivor D, or three hooks if not, with potentially three extra hits needed. But you also gain some pressure because survivor A still has to heal,
tl;dr: It is a situational side grade, but there are a lot of situations that make it good.
its better to count and wait out the basekit off the record. pointless hitting to give them a speed boost when i can chase, get up next to them and when timer is up just down them, it keeps them off the gens like a normal chase would and gives a 1 hit down. Also means killer doesnt need to travel the map looking for another survivor which takes a lot of time.
Another reason why killers tunnel is because they tunnel the weak link. if there is just 1 strong looper in the team then it means the 4 hook mori method would be far worse than targeting the weak looper out. Not many tunneling killers would run that risk of getting 2 or 3 easy hooks then coming across that 1 really good looper that the killer just cant catch. As a tunneling killer myself, i know if i find the weak looper im going to get them out faster than if i change targets.