runningguy
runningguy
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unfortunately voice chat to any degree will never work because people dont know how to use a mute button which means the people that want voice chat cant have it.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058764#Comment_4058764
It doesnt matter if people are satisfied with one kill or not. Its about the core mechanics that are actually just pain out of hell. Just get rid of tunneling, camping and slugging and look how the core game works out. But BHVR is just afraid of making the game fun for everyone, so they hard cater to killer since years.
Its impossible to make it fun for EVERYONE. What survivors find fun, the killer might not. What the killer finds fun, survivors might not.
If you can find a solution that would make everyone happy and enjoy the game then you should put forward a proposal to BHVR lol.
I do know 1 thing, remove tunneling, camping, slugging and i wouldnt find the game fun as killer or survivor.
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They do it every time. 2 weeks pass by, the players slowly open the door, peep through gap... "Is it over yet?" Nope..."will come back next week"...slowly closes the door.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058535#Comment_4058535
But you don't play on the Hong Kong server now, do you?
In NA/EU, a 4-man SWF is like on average 11% of the players, which means that in 8/9 matches, you are more likely to face solos, two duos, a duo and two solos, or a trio + a solo player, instead of a full 4-man team.
And out of those full 4-man teams, very few are playing in a serious manner.Now on the topic of this thread, I would love to see isolated numbers for NA East and EU Main.
As I have already mentioned I play on various servers including the HK server...as already explained, the hours I play the game means not many people on my server are active so I try others when my server is a bit dry.
Just one example... Why would I q up for over 5min as killer on my server when I can instantly get a match on HK server?
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@angrychuck said:
Weird place to beg for something no one can give you, but if you really desperately want Michael, you can slum down to the level of scalpers and buy a code for ungodly prices.
or wait for the new halloween game
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100% nurse needs a rework, the power is too delicate to tweak. a minor change could make the killer way OP or way too weak.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058548#Comment_4058548
Possibly.
Important distinction is that this is the HK server, which is basically a separate entity which I know nothing about.
I know more about JP and other Asian servers, which have very objective-oriented Survivors and not so great Killers (imo). But I really can't comment on HK players since I've never seen any.
Ye they are objective orientated like me. Less altruistic like me. Play to win like me.
Killers there I find tunnel less than other servers.
I essentially play more Asian play style as survivor and more European/American as killer.
Partly why I say to people, tunnel as killer and play less altruistically as survivor. It works for me. Playstyle is a choice.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058535#Comment_4058535
Do you play on that server?
I play on various servers, sort of have to during the times I play. Not many people are spending time on dbd between 3am and 7am.
Weirdly I have been told many times I play like an Asian player... I used to think they were being racist or something but it does seem to track right. People on those server play very different to other servers and the escape rates show it...mine is more in line with their escape rates due to me playing more like them?
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Pretty much backs up the sort of experience I have had and what I have been saying for some time. SWF is more common than others like to admit, the escape rates of these teams is far higher (probably due to comms) and soloq isn't actually that bad...
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My interest in chaos shuffle went long ago, i never play that mode when its on. 2 v 8 started to get old the previous 1 or 2 versions…Now 2 v 8 is a complete miss for me just like chaos shuffle.
These modes are good as a novelty but that wears off very fast especially when its pretty much the same thing as last time. If they brought a new mode or one we rarely see such as lights out then i would probably play them.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058297#Comment_4058297
This is the sort of stuff OP is saying:
if the game had inbulit comms instead of SWFs useing discord like we all do, the game can actually be blanced not for solo q, that is just trash and into SWFs which is co-oridnated and can destroy killers easily
Rewritten for coherence: The game could be balanced better if VC was global.
I have a 75% escape rate as survivor with my Lara and 500 hours on her I only play SWFS compared to ur 40% escape rate it rlly shows the power of a SWF and having good teamamtes.
Oh wait, AND you need good teammates.
So soloq, by this logic, wouldn't benefit from comms, because there would still be bad players playing badly, just with the ability to speak. Random strangers have no synergy with you. They have no attachment. This will fix nothing. Good players will play well if they're solo or not. Bad players will play bad regardless of comms. Comms do not fix this game's problems.
Thats fair enough, your numbers dont reflect what others experience.
It's impossible to say what other people's numbers reflect as long as the stats are innaccruate. We are using rigged data to argue a point, which makes the entire argument skewed and the problems inscrutable. My numbers being abnormally accurate makes it look like I'm underperforming, but it's quite likely that if we all woke up to adjusted numbers tomorrow, everyone would loose 10% or more of their ERs, considering the frequency with which people abandon the second they hit the ground.
How many people do or dont cant be proven, we know some do because we have seen videos of people doing it, they admit it on these forums and they can be seen doing it via watching a ttv player thats streaming. Your experience my differ, maybe you havent seen videos of comms being used in this way or havnt witnessed it yourself, i dont know. But others have
I've said it before, but the forum isn't a good example of average player experiences. I take everything I hear here with a grain of salt. The most normal, mid to bad players I play with don't engage with the game in any way outside of playing it. The fact that we've all bothered to join a forum to talk about this game's tiny details endlessy makes us unusual. So I don't view the forum members as good examples of anything except an exceptional drive to complain. TTVers are also a terrible example of normality. They're performing for an audience. I would never, ever upload a video with a recording of me playing with people while we bs. That's not public content. Some people are great players AND use comms efficiently but they are outliers. Official survivor stats remain at underwhelming numbers even amongst high MMR SWFs.
It is very much possible that people can play with their friends and win every match and find it ez….because they could be doing something that you do not.
No survivor team is winning every match unless they're low MMR, and those wins would take them out of it quick enough, unless matchmaking can be manipulated in some way I dont know about. There are killers with 85%+ KRs just in this forum. They are statistically winning every match. Even the most impressive survivors in the world have streaks that pale in comparison to killer streaks.
I agree, having comms might not improve solo... But it also might. It could swing either way imo. On one hand there are solo players that are screaming for the ability to work as an effective team like SWF with comms can. They want the ability to make totem call outs and be told when the killer is heading their way which can help. On they other hand, there are people like me that's fine with playing soloq as it is and if players like me had bad team mates they would still end up leaving the bad team mates to die on hook even with comms if they don't benefit the team. I would say that's more of a matchmaking issue at the moment where bad players can be teamed with good players.
There has been many times I wished I could let people know where the hex totems are because I have a map and in chase so I know where they are but can't do much about it. I'm pretty sure they would like to know where they are too so they can get rid of them and work towards escaping, unfortunately that's SWF exclusive.
Winning every match? Probably not. Escaping every match? Very possible. Depends on what is meant by every match and what is meant by winning. I have escaped well over 30 times in a row, by escapes that includes gates and hatch no abandons. Which is partly why I have recently been not going for the hatch but instead deliberately waiting for the hatch to be closed so I can escape via gate which is pretty much seen as a win by anyone even MMR standards as it's a gate escape. However, some people consider it a win to die when 3 others escape because the team won, some people consider hatch escapes a win because they technically escaped, some people even consider the killer abandoning as a win for survivors.... Literally just have to bore the killer into giving up such as when no gens are done in 10min and they abandon. Some survivors see it as a win even when they didn't escape or do gens. Some killers slug the whole team then abandon when all are bots then claim they won even when abandoning means they gave up before they claimed the win killing the bots. The win con we apply to these games can make a big difference especially when using escape/kill rates.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058292#Comment_4058292
Yes they would be just as accurate as mine (for that 30 day period). Again, it says escape rate. It would be accurate to that word. And I also said my deaths are usually also team losses. The hatch is rare for me. Not only do I not know its spawn points without a shack offering (since I rarely think about it and haven't bothered to learn them) but I'm rarely the last person left alive. And slugging for the 4k is pretty common in my matches too. I'd be curious to see my number of hatch escapes as it's likely rather low.
I use the escape rate because 1) it's all they provide us and 2) the set-up here was that 4mans stomp killers, which would imply my ER should be higher because if we're stomping that much, I would be escaping a lot. You have all these people in this forum saying "played with my buddies and we won every match SWF is ez mode" and I'm saying the only numbers BHVR gives me to do not reflect that.
Thats fair enough, your numbers dont reflect what others experience. However you also say you dont use comms like a swat team which i believe was the initial point to this thread. It wasnt about SWF teams, it wasnt about comms in general. The wording used was something along the lines of SWF if coordinated with comms and using comms in this manner, can destroy killers. You admit you do not use comms in this manner. How many people do or dont cant be proven, we know some do because we have seen videos of people doing it, they admit it on these forums and they can be seen doing it via watching a ttv player thats streaming. Your experience my differ, maybe you havent seen videos of comms being used in this way or havnt witnessed it yourself, i dont know. But others have.
im not saying your experiences are invalid but they are not really an accurate reflection of what SWF teams with comms are capable of or how comms are used when talking about coordinated teams when you do not use comms in this way. It is very much possible that people can play with their friends and win every match and find it ez….because they could be doing something that you do not.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058281#Comment_4058281
Four co-ordinated friends playing to win perform better than a solo player. More breaking news at 7.
you would think this is common knowledge but there has been discussions claiming SWF teams with comms do not increase escape rates by that much and previous SWF escape rates as a whole being pretty much in line with soloq escapes rates as evidence of this….These new stats show a wider gap between solo and SWF when people play to win using comms which and also somewhat filters out the sections i wanted filtered out. i dont want casuals being included in the stats when discussing the impact coordinated teams can have on the killer because they are irrelevant and potentially reduce escape rates for SWF as a whole making it seem like coordinated teams are not that effective.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058276#Comment_4058276
Your reasoning is flawed. Hatch = loss is not entirely true. Sometimes a team runs out so they're isolated/injured teammate can get hatch. That match was a win. If I were to die on purpose in every match I was the last one left in, that would only give me an accurate winrate if I live in every match we win, and I can't control being the one death. The only way to know your winrate is to keep your own data.
It's also called an escape rate, not a winrate or an MMR-gain rate. I've made it clear I want the two things separated in the stats. But the hatch is still part of the gameplay. It still requires in-game action. The abandon is leaving during a match almost always when you yourself died in that match. The way abandons operate is either an oversight or a very bad idea. The two things aren't the same.
No one is stopping you from doing this? But if you have to make a point of it that tells me you're abandoning quite a bit.
I knew you were setting up a gotcha but this is a really odd one.
Is it a win if others run out leaving the remaining player to get the hatch? i have never seen anything stating this, only seen things saying "hatch escapes are neutral MMR, a draw".
its actually quite rare i abandon because i go for hatch over the abandon option, but im saying if i NEVER abandon not even once or twice like i do now.
it not a gotcha moment im genuinely trying to understand your view on stats and wins/loss because one min your saying hatch is not a win, but now saying it is a win in certain situations. Escape rate is not a win rate but you have used it to show killers winning. You abandon to get accurate stats but still get the hatch and you consider your stats accurate. So i was curious if i did the same thing, never abandoned and only escaped via gate or hatch or died over a 30 day perioid…then my stats would be just as accurate as yours. correct?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058281#Comment_4058281
I also don't know why they left that out.
As we've been discussing elsewhere, we apparently cannot tell if people are using comms or not. I find it ironic you do the exact thing you just spent a whole thread railing against.
I mean, nobody complains about Duos or Trios, so I assume you mean the 4-man rates which do go up….by a whole four percent. Which gives you a grand total of…fifteen percent of the total playerbase. You have a SLIGHTLY higher chance of getting a full four-man, but there's actually more people playing Solo than anything else.
no we dont know if they are using comms or not, im just speculating a theory and possible explanation why SWF teams do in fact have higher escape rate in high MMR compared solo players in high MMR. While mid MMR seems stable across the board…. my theory which obviously cant be proven is that mid players are usually casual and dont use comms to win but to have fun while high players usually play to win and as the number of players have comms the numbers of escape rates increase. Just a theory, not saying this is factually the reason to explain the stats which is why i said the stats suggests it.
As for the percentage of SWF players, im not saying SWF is more common than solo, but i am saying the people that claim they rarely see SWF teams and the ones that say they see them frequently might not be seeing the same things due to an increase in the high MMR percentage of SWF teams. This could be further influenced by things like times people play the game. For example, i have found im more likely to get SWF teams when im playing at 4 or 5am. This could be a potential influence and when added with the slight increased chances of teams due to high MMR, it could offer an explanation. Again, nothing can be proven, just a theory.
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not sure why they left out most used and deadliest killers at high MMR but included most used and deadliest killers for mid MMR. High MMR indicates sweaty players that play to win, im curious what killers are mostly used in this area of the game and what the kill rates are for the high MMR killers such as blights. i would be surprised if killers like freddy and pin head that are relatively easy to counter in a team would be in the high MMR list.
Another interesting point is how mid MMR escape rates are generally the same regardless of SWF but high MMR escape rates improve the more they have SWF…..This suggests mid MMR when people just goof around and meme, being in SWF does not improve escape rates. While high MMR where people play to win, the escape rates do get higher the more thats in a team which indicates SWF with comms with the intent to win can aid survivors considerably. It goes from 37% solo to 45%. 4man SWF.
Its also interesting that there is actually an increase in the amount of SWF players in high MMR. Many people claim "your not getting SWF teams that often". These stats show that high MMR do have higher chance of getting SWF teams compared to mid MMR.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058261#Comment_4058261
I'm still not sure what this is relevant too, or why my specific viewpoint on the matter is needed. I'm not the authority. Ask a dev if you want a definitive answer. Hatch escapes show as escapes on the scoreboard and the stats; abandons show as deaths yet throw out the match on the tracker. Nullifying a whole match that you died in is obviously not accurate. People can comeback with whatever they want but you can't even see the difference between hatch and gates on the page. If they separated gates and hatch into two groups, might be a different argument. Would also probably change if MMR became visible and you showed an inflated escape rate and a low MMR score, because it'd be obvious you're hatch-smurfing against baby killers, which would make basically no one take your views seriously. But those things being visible aren't likely to happen. Currently you'd have to advertise your hatch ratting for people to even know.
So for the sake of accuracy, if people are choosing to not abandon in an attempt to keep their stats accurate then they should be choosing to not escape via hatch either as its not a win. Like i said, abandons inflate escape rate by not declaring it a loss, hatch also does this by declaring the match "escaped" when they didnt win. Are you not only never abandoning but also never getting the hatch either?
Curious what my stats would be if i actively went out of my way to not abandon for a month and aimed for hatch all month…. if i get high escape rate then i could say "i dont abandon and here are the matches that show escaped to prove it".
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058254#Comment_4058254
I'm not sure why you're asking me as though I'm the statmaster, but as far as I know, hatches are escapes—even if they're null in the system and neutral in MMR—in the most literal sense of the word, because you are jumping down a hole and, thus, escaping. A win, I would say no (as would Peanits, it would seem) but an escape, yes. What is your point?
im asking you because you used your 41% escape rate and claimed it was accurate as you dont abandon. This suggests that gate escapes and hatch escapes show an accurate reading of escape rate. If people are going to use escape rates as a means to show how much they win/lose then it should be clarified or people could come back with "your stats are invalid as they are skewed by hatch escapes" much like people say now regarding abandons.
For example, i could escape via hatch 10/10 matches, my escape rate would be 100%, however being as hatch is not a win in the eyes of MMR then its possible to have lost the match and have 100% escape rate. It seems very similar to lose the match and then abandoning to maintain the 100% escape rate which as we all know throws off the stats.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058180#Comment_4058180
The abandons don't just recalculate as deaths at some future point. Any one who abandons has inaccurate stats until (or if) the tracker is fixed.
You also said it like a week ago.
So someone that gets the hatch and does not abandon would have accurate stats? Someone that gets the hatch 10/10 matches and has escaped rate of 100% is accurate stats?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058092#Comment_4058092
An experience is not an opinon. Not being on comms is my experience. You can choose whether or not to believe me but it isn't an opinon.
Survivor stats are not accurate unless you never abandon? So someone that rarely abandons or never abandons and gets the hatch would have reasonably accurate stats?
You're well aware abandons delete losses. You've mentioned it multiple times, as well as being present in the threads we've spoken about it. No one is talking about your precious hatch. You said you use the abandon when no other option is available therefore your stats are innaccruate. You don't care about BHVRs accurate official stats; I don't care about your innacurate ones.
You inexperience is anicdotal just like my experience is.
Just because I said I abandoned before doesn't mean I abandon now does it? Just like you not using comms before doesn't mean you don't use them now. Things change. Therefore if your basis for accurate stats via the stats tracker is simply don't abandon...then me not abandoning, escaping via gates or hatch would show accurate stats, correct? They would show escapes v deaths.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058093#Comment_4058093
Hatch is considered null in the system, same as DCs and abandons. So i don't think there's any difference. The personal stats pages need fine tuning because i believe both hatch and abandons show as escapes, whereas in the system that the devs use (ie which determines MMR) both hatch and abandons are non-factors.
Except hatch counts as escapes as they also count towards challenges and adepts. Abandons do not count towards challenges and adepts.
Abandons do not count as escapes on the tracker, they are void, no escape, no death, just a blank space on the recent matches section. Hatch actually does say "escaped".
Also the reason why I asked this question is because of the statement being stat tracker is accurate if you never abandon... Suggesting hatch escapes that count towards the escape rate is acceptable for providing reliable accurate results.
Is it that stats where someone never abandons are accurate? Or are stats accurate if you never abandon and never escape via hatch? The difference can be important when considering accuracy.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058071#Comment_4058071
This one is easily solved via logic, so Let's try together.
People want to play with friends. They like to be able fo talk with them. Not much of a point in grouping up with zero communication. In fact, you can't even do that, since you need to send someone an invite, which means you need their account name. That's external comms. Ergo, almost every single SWF uses it.
So what is it that you want? You insist everyone else is wrong, because they aren't God and can't give you exact data on every minute detail but you simultaneously can't even live up to your own standards.
Just another contrarian.
There is a point to grouping up in SWF without comms as been previously pointed out by cogsy lol. He himself stated a while ago that he played in SWF and did not use comms that often.
I'm not claiming anyone is right or wrong, I'm simply saying using evidence that is buffed out by potential stats that don't apply such as people not using comms as cogs admitted to doing himself.
Fact remains, like it or not, using ALL SWF stats under 1 blanket to assume all are using comms is speculation....what would happen if I assumed cogs was using comms every SWF match? I would be told "that's not true, because I don't use comms much even in SWF". Speculation is never good for proof, if you can't prove it then it's speculation.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058059#Comment_4058059
Survivor stats aren't accurate unless you never abandon. That's well known. The only reason I even mention mine is because I don't abandon. I dont trust a single person's survivor stats but my own.
Disconnected from what? False narratives? I play SWF, solo, and killer. You said you only SWF as survivor, so I'm playing a lot more of the game than you are. Who's more disconnected?
Survivor stats are not accurate unless you never abandon? So someone that rarely abandons or never abandons and gets the hatch would have reasonably accurate stats?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058071#Comment_4058071
Cogsy has said himself "not all SWF use comms".
Ah and there it is, you using something you like that someone else said because it suits your argument in the moment. Can't go a few posts without it doing, huh? I'm a liar until my words are useful.
Well you did say it, im right that it's an assumption that can't be proven. It's an opinion, nothing more. Your entitled to that opinion. An opinion based on your own experience at the time. Now the issue comes if you try to prove this is not an assumption and use this as evidence to show this is the case for everyone. That's when I'm likely to disprove and discredit it as evidence, because it's simply not proven and can't be proven.
Besides, not everything is black and white right? It is possible to lie about something but tell the truth about something else. you did say this comment when you also said that you don't always use comms. Does that mean that's the case now? Of course not, now your saying you have not used no comms in a while. Just because now you decide to use comms when you didn't so much before does not erase what you said.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058057#Comment_4058057
Oh? Solo Q uses comms? Do tell me more.
SWF's, the vast majority, use comms. Solo Q do not. Ergo, we compare comms vs no-comms. Quite simple.
majority of SWF use comms? you have figures to show this being as you like to provide evidence? Cogsy has said himself "not all SWF use comms". So if not all SWF use comms then how many dont? We dont know do we, so why would count all people in the stats when they dont use comms? if say 50% use comms, thats half that dont and as such could likely be dying more thus lowering the escape rate for ALL SWF.
These figures you present as evidence is entirely speculative and based on assumptions that ALL or MOST SWF use comms…. You might throw around stats with assumptions and claim they are fact but thats not actual evidence no matter how much you try to claim it is.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057998#Comment_4057998
Yes, quite a bit different, actually.
See, even if you nitpick or disagree, there's genuine empirical evidence showing SWF and Solo Q escape about the same amount. Slight difference in favor of SWF, but not too much. Even if you think that's misguided or out of context, there IS evidence for it. There's no evidence for your opinion, besides completely anecdotal experiences. You have zero hard data.
Considering you name anyone who disagrees with you liar, I think I'll be fine. You never even debunked anything, you just asked for information that even BHVR doesn't have access too. If they did, it'd be Spyware.
No. Unless you want to install Spyware on DBD players systems, listen in on their comms and make a opinion-based judgement call on how serious they are playing. You can nitpick all you want, only one of our stances has any ground to stand on and it isn't the one with zero evidence, data or possibility of proof.
But go off, ig. Hit me with another non sequitur. Might as well get all the logical fallacies too.
once again you are talking about SWF and soloq…we are not talking about that we are talking about comms. Showing evidence that shows ALL SWF its useless. its like talking about Nurse and showing you stats that include ALL killers including nurse. Its meaningless.
So like i said, if you dont have ACTUAL evidence that highlights COMMS impact on killers then its probably best to not show anything or it will be debunked. unless we are agreeing that anecdotal evidence is now valid?
Without actual evidence then it is just purely anecdotal which has been considered invalid in many arguments. assuming individual killers kill rates were never shown, if i was talking about Nurses kill rate then i show you evidence of ALL S tier kill rates it would not be valid as it it would incorporate stats outside of Nurse. This is what you have done, we are talking about comms being used and the impact they have on the killer and you take stats that show ALL SWF escape rate and expect it to be valid? sorry but no lol.
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@Fixthisgamebad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058032#Comment_4058032
Reductionism at its finest, they are just saying everything is fine due to one stat without useing nunace to see the deeper issues, they don't know how they m1 perfrom because they either dont play the killer and due to BHVR not giving offical stats of each killers and well they dont wanna use nightlabs because it is not reliabel, however if we use there logic, then the game is fine now, killers and killermain youtubers making videos on why you should tunnel proxy camp and slug to get the W is become the norm well it already is i tunnel most my games as M1. Things survivors get emtional about 24/7 but they dont want to change how the game is being played due to the stats showing that everything is fine. I hope this brakes the logic but idk.
personally i would like see the stats broken down, escape rates for SWF that use comms and escape rates for SWF that dont use comms. It would still lead to potential holes in using these figures as we never know if the comms are people playing like a swat team or if they are dancing around the map singing kumbaya on mics…. but it would be far better than using SWF as a whole which includes everything from comms to no comms, people memeing and people actually trying to win.
As this will never happen, i just go by my own experience and in a way its nice to know others see a similar thing in their matches….that being comms used highly effectively which can pretty much destroy m1 killers, stealth killers in particular if they dont tunnel and play survivors rules. we are not alone lol there are many killers that see this too. As myers main, SWF with comms used like a swat team completely negated the entire killer. if 1 saw me, they all knew where i was, if i sneak up on someone they were long gone by the time i get there because of comms. Tunneling is pretty handy for evening out the odds.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058026#Comment_4058026
So you're saying people posting actual BHVR data and personal match histories holds less water than saying "maybe they're doing a totem challenge"? You say a whole lot of nonsense to support playing in a gross manner and never back it up with anything and everyone is just supposed to swallow it?
And what about the parties I play in, on three different platforms, no matching names, no matching characters? When we get stomped, the killer assumes we're soloqers, or they just don't care, because it's only a problem when you loose. The wins that don't fit the narrative are quickly forgotten.
im saying it hold less water when these stats being posted are nothing to do with the topic….being comms. meaningless numbers that encorporate a wide variety of things outside the current topic.
I dont care what figures say when they dont reflect my games…. when i see countless people doing totems and they say "sorry, doing challenge" then im more inclined to lean towards what i see not what vague numbers tell me.
Comms is a problem when used correctly, if you dont use comms correctly thats on you. why would the killer care if your in a SWF with poor comms, its like your all soloq at that point. they care when people use comms effectively, by negating entire killers basekit powers such as stealth killers. you dont play that way so you wouldnt understand but there are many many people that do use comms in this manner and its pretty obvious when they do.
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@Fixthisgamebad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058026#Comment_4058026
wait give me the TLDR of the aurgument becuase i cant be asked reading that weskers posts
basically claimed they have 41% escape rate to try prove that SWF with comms dont destroy killers….i questioned the validity of this claim and possible reasons for that figure…such as dying to aid the team…which a 3 man out 1 dead is a loss for the killer….so 41% escape rate doesnt mean the killer won.
This has now evolved into screen shots being sent to prove the validity of this 41% escape rate.
after i point out potential flaws in the screen shots this goes on to "prove killers get destroyed" because they failed to prove they dont.
pretty much
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058019#Comment_4058019
There is no way to prove this, yet the consistent narrative is "4mans on comms easily wreck killers" despite there being zero proof of this because you don't know who is in a party or on comms. People loose and just assume, because it allows them to deflect responsibility for their losses to something they can state is unfair. So why aren't you asking all these people who say this unproveble thing about comms where their proof is? Because it's the version of the story that you like, that's why.
If there is no way to prove it thats fine, but dont throw out stats that hold no baring at all and say "well i shown somthing" now your turn to prove yourself".
Yes we do know who is in SWF with comms when survivors have the equivalent of wall hacks to know the stealth killer is coming. or when names are identical. When all 4 survivors have names of well known fastfood places it doesnt take a genius to work out they are in SWF. People on ttv….just a click away from witnessing the comms first hand. Your using this "cant prove it" thing to dismiss blatant cases that are obvious while trying to prove these things dont happen.
i dont ask them where their proof is because i dont expect them to prove it. i didnt ask you to prove it….i simply debunked the evidence you provided….i didnt ask you to prove it tho. if they tried to prove it with meaningless evidence that dont hold up i would probably call them out on it too.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058017#Comment_4058017
Yeah you constantly singling me out and responding to my comments all the time despite us having these same arguments over and over and breaking no new ground—while you also ignore people with the same views—is totally not looking for a pointless fight.
i comment on many peoples posts not just yours, it just happens most of your posts seem to not just voice views but you actively try to prove it with evidence thats very easily disputed and makes no sense. If you dont want your evidence to be scrutinised then posting it publicly on the forums is probably not the best idea.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058000#Comment_4058000
I, at least, have played with people on comms and have perosnal experience. Until you can show me your data on the use of comms, you have zero argument.
Also, look up the word altruism, because you don't now what it means.
i too have played with people on comms and have person experience…. you want me to show you a screen shot of an end result screen to show i was in SWF and using comms? It wouldnt show we are in SWF or that we used comms but hey thats the evidence we are willing to accept right?
You have not shown any data on your use of comms, thats my point. you have tried to and failed. Because you have failed to prove your point your now throwing the onus to me to prove myself….your failure to prove something doesnt mean i have to show proof. As it stands your views are you own, but they are not proven just as my views are not proven. Throwing pointless screenshots and saying "well i shown something" does not prove your point lol.
Could i post vague screen shots to mimic the type of evidence you provide? sure, would it be valid? probably not because they dont prove anything. in a way i am tempted to do that, throw a load of screen shots your way thats so vague with key details missing just as you have done just to see if you hold them in the same regard as your own. Would they be accurate? maybe, maybe not, would i invent a fictional scenario that matches the vague image shown or would it be the truth? you never know
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058008#Comment_4058008
He's not looking for common ground. He just wants to fight.
just simply pointing out a flaw i have seen…. apparently anyone that dares question you or the validity of your sources is looking for a fight lol. Not the case at all but your free to believe it if you wish.
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
i think a communications wheel would work wonderfully if it uses images rather than words. the problem with word-based wheels is that language barriers exist. symbols can be used much more effectively for information and can be used universally. i think this would also coincide with the emote system wonderfully too.
as far as a ranked system goes, i think we are at a point where a ranked game mode would make sense for this game. there is a clearer distinction between types of players in this stage of the game's lifespan, so i don't think it'd really hurt anything. the argument of "sweats using casual modes to bully casual players" wouldn't really change much either, since this technically already happens due to the player pool mixture. for those who are wanting to take the game more seriously or are looking for something different to do with the game in general, i feel that the ranked mode would invite them to congregate there as these modes have always have in other games.
language barrier shouldnt be an issue tbf. there are games with a chat wheel that auto translates the message on the wheel to to the native language for the player reading the message. Sea of thieves for example has a chat wheel. as an english speaker i can use the wheel to say "man the cannons". The french player would receive a French translation of that.
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@Xaerdy said:
Well, runningguy has made it clear on multiple occasions, that he thinks the game in soloq is basically to be played without any form of altruism. This is pretty far from the majority of the players and on this forum. So I think yopu simply won't find any common ground here.
That being said, of course coordination makes the game easier. I don't want to count the times I lost a hook stage, even in 2v8, just because noone was saving me, despite not doing gens or anything. And there is certain info your char gets others don't see.
However all things are dependend on skill. The game does not suddenly become easy when you have comms. There my two friends and me, where I am certainly the weak link, and there is team eternal.
Two killers coordinating in 2v8 are a nightmare though and Freddy isn't even playable. ^^
—
Back to topic:
Ranked is fine by me, however, that would
a. this only makes sense, when the player base is big enough. Currently 2v8 drowns 1v4 a little bit. So a new ranked mode should not lead to either the ranked or the casual mode having a day of queue time
b. ranked mode would have to have not just a different and an laways on game chat. Which isn't technically possible btw. It would have to have specific rules in gameplay, like for instance a less strong anti tunnel mechanic etc. Otherwise, people who play competetive and loose too much, would just play casual to stomp others, but with the mindset they have in a very competitive play, making the modes obsolete.
For the love of the spaghetti monster, the invisible teapot and the invisible pink unicorn, spare us from voice chat in game. The community is incredible toxic. I really don't want to play while hearing the some people complain, quite often in russian, what kind ##### their teamates are what #### I am. Besides, the game is quite a lot based on hearing. It's one thing to tell you mates "be quite, I can't hear Vecna-wannabe shooting vines at me" and another to explain that to stranger a few hundred to thousand kilometres away.
But communication should be. It's stupid to think that people who play together wouldn't communicate. When was the last time you sat at a couch playing Mario Kart with friends and said nothing the whole race, especially in a team race? So I concur, that some communication for soloq would be helpful, but not voice chat. Get some form of quick comms wheel or something and test it.
sorry i have correct you there lol i havnt said soloq is to be played without any form of altruism….just minimal. if me saving someone helps my escape then altruism is required. likewise if im the only good looper on the team and i loop for 2 gens, it would benefit the other players to save me so i can loop the killer for another 2 gens further aiding in their escape by unhooking me. Altruism for a purpose is what soloq is about at the moment. Part of the reason i think soloq should be played with minimal altruism is due to not only how the game is scored BP, MMR, challenges ect being individual based but the fact there is no comms. Add comms, score people as a team and maybe we will have a team game on our hands.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057970#Comment_4057970
you reuse what others have said on these forums many times claiming that when enough people say the same thing it adds validity to the argument
One person saying "this specific, niche thing happened to me once" and you using and resuing it over and over because it happens to suit your preferred narrative is not the same as thousands of people saying the same general thing happened to them. Try to understand nuance.
But by your standards if you dont experience it then it never happens?
It's not about them happening or not, you just don't need to talk about things that aren't your experience like they are because you like how they sound. I, for example, have had very little to say about end game chat because I didn't have it until recently, so I took what people said with a grain of salt and didn't worry about it because it wasn't my experience. Now it is and I still haven't had much to say because I need a bigger sample size, but so far my experience is, unsurprisingly, not aligning with many complaints.
i have been in a duo, i have seen how others people play and they dont play like you
You've seen how other people play? With a low MMR new player? Yeah, I'm sure that gave you amazing perspective. You also have no idea when people you stomp are in parties. I play with people across all platforms. There's no way to know we're playing together. And again, I've had thousands of matches with dozens of people and many different dynamics and styles of players. You played in a duo once. This is like you saying "I visited France for a week so I know how it is there" while I say "I lived in France for 10 years" and you thinking you know more than me about life in France. It is wild to have this forceful of an opinon based mostly on assumption and other people's stories.
Then after your stats were logically debunked as they offer no evidence regarding comms you change to screenshots to try to prove your right and other people are wrong which also shows no relation to the use of comms.
There is no way to prove that, but I at least have more than you ever do, which is inflated stats and a video going against a baby Bubba.
you try to disprove what people say or ask them to prove what they say when quite often proof cannot be provided which is exactly what im pointing out now
I don't get into lengthy arguments wirh many people anymore. Most have been banned. I do it to you because you use ridiculous examples that happened once or didn't happen to you. You do this regularly. Any time you dont like the story, you try to "but how do I know you were on comms?" "What if someone was doing some nonsense challenge" "but did you throw on purpose?????"
my original point still stands, your stats, your 41% escape rate and claiming you use comms in 4man SWF does not disprove the OP post of comms destroying killers. There are holes in your evidence. so you dont use comms like a swat team….good for you, you dont care about wins, great. That doesnt mean there are a lot of people that dont use comms like a swat team, that dont play to win. you can disagree but you cant do any more than that, certainly not by throwing out irrelevant data that misses key points such as the use of comms. do you have any thing else to add? any more stats that show nothing of the impact of comms?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057976#Comment_4057976
You say that, but then attack a single poster and call them a liar for daring to disagree.
You debunk nothing, you have no opinion, you contribute nothing except chaos and derailment. You simply jumped in to cause chaos and disrupt the discussion. I've seen countless discussions derailed by you, where all you do is say, "No, that's not true." "No, you made that up." "No, that's not real, you manipulated data." "No, those stats don't count, they aren't what I want."
You have no supporting evidence, you refuse to elaborate and you refuse to do anything except sow discord. We have enough of that already, imo. Most of the comments in this thread are you just saying, "Nu uh." When people try to meaningfully engage with your baseless points. Perhaps that's equally on us, for falling for that ruse.
is it any different to someone telling the OP they are lying and SWF with comms are not providing an advantage that solo players get? i dont think so. If someone can say something along the lines of "what your saying isnt true and i have stats to prove it" then why is it not acceptable to call that person out and say "well your stats does not prove anything and heres why".
By all means offer evidence if you wish, but expect it to be debunked with logic and reasoning, just dont get too worked up over it and resort to name calling 😂
Now do you have any other "evidence to thow around for me to debunk? anything that actually has significance to comms and not SWF as a whole?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057947#Comment_4057947
So then prove it destroys Killers.
Where's your evidence? Your stats?
Also, you didn't post an opinion, you immediately jumped to attacking another poster. The same poster you always attack. Weirdo.
now whos asking someone to prove something? i dont have to prove anything, im stating my opinion and debunking meaningless "evidence". Which you have also done….offered meaningless so called evidence which has nothing to do with comms.
i would be careful….i dont think name calling is tolerated in the forums. could be considered a personal attack, please keep it civil lol
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057866#Comment_4057866
"Tunneling doesn't work against good players."
"You have to tunnel against good players in order to win."
Which is it? It can't be both ways.
yes it can be both, no tactic works 100% of the time. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. thats what makes the balanced, v good survivors its often the best method to win, but does it always work? no, not if they are good.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057901#Comment_4057901
Yeah the repeat characters in the same spots during the same time frame are just coincidences. Logical.
I post a lot of screenshots. I provide the evidence I have. You do nothing but tell anecdotal tales, often about things other people did or said or might be doing. It's cute that you're trying to discard all my evidence while providing none of your own in a discussion about something you mostly know about in theory and I know in practice.
Idk who these baby players you're playing with who are still doing these tome challenges and also have no idea how to play at the same time but that's not happening in my matches. 4mans don't throw so someone can cleanse totems. Were bringing the key and a hatch offering solely in hopes that one person can get out of the match because the matches are awful. Even then, we often get no one out because the killer slugs for the 4k. We used the key once in these matches. And it was me, and I wasn't doing any stupid challenge.
Yeah I've heard you're story of playing in low MMR with one guy once. Amazing. I've played with dozens of people over thousands of matches. The results remain about the same as soloing, the company of friends just makes the endless loses more bearable. But you're the expert on this thing you've basically never done.
i posted stats, my escape rate and it was quickly cast aside due to inaccuracy. swings both ways, if personal stats are not accurate and open to scrutiny then so are screen shots that prove nothing.
there are players with thousands of hours in the game and have no done tome challengers. i have over 3k hours and i havnt done them all. 4mans do throw to help people with challenges, its the often the best and easiest way to get them done when everyone helps eachother to get them done. 4 man team where multiple people needs hatch escape….the team will help them get it. soloq where someone needs hatch escape, ye they wont give it to you because you need to get it done.
while my anecdotal evidence isnt good enough for you, your hypocrisy just doesnt wash. constantly saying one thing then contradicting yourself a second later. your arguments are very wishy washy at best and it seems like you change your stance depending on what your argument is at the time. there is no consistency. The most you offer is your own experience with vague evidence which can be interpreted in many ways. I offer my own experience AND the experience of others. Even on these forums there have been people that have said exactly the same as me, SWF with comms can be game breaking or can offer advantages that soloq doesnt get. But you dismiss this every time because i dont screenshot every comment or record every discusion then you say "no evidence, anecdotal". Sorry but if you want hard evidence given then you have to provide it too. By hard evidence i dont mean things that can be interpreted in different ways, i mean solid evidence that cant be disputed. until that happens then your evidence is just valid or invalid as anecdotal evidence.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057892#Comment_4057892
You keep talking about me being the only one who is dying and I'm telling you that's not what's happening. No one is talking about win conditions or anything. So since you're accusing me of lying, here are the 6 deaths of my lasy 9 4man sessions:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RUULY1XCDYDC/screenshot-20260220-142125.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5IXBUPZ1UD2P/screenshot-20260220-142107.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/DPJ6EL52660L/screenshot-20260220-142053.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Q2IEE2K62YSP/screenshot-20260220-142037.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KS9Q1F8FZE7L/screenshot-20260220-142013.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Z7MNDDJO4LOD/screenshot-20260220-141951.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZE5JR0DJLD38/screenshot-20260220-141931.jpg
Four people on comms and pretty much all full team wipes accept one draw.
I love how it's the people who soloq who are experts on what happens in every and all SWFs. The boogeyman isnt real but it hurts the narrative, so it must continue.
the evidence shown only shows results. it does not show if they are even SWF. Could be soloq for all i know. duo? 4 man? who knows.
The evidence shown also does not show if comms were used which is what this thread is about…SWF that use comms. Showing matches where comms are not used doesnt prove that comms are not effective when they are used.
The evidence also does not show if these matches were played normally or specifically working towards a challenge such as hatch escape (which is a possibility as you have said about bringing a key and hiding it.) ofcourse if your doing challenges then your not going to be concentrating on wins.
I have played SWF as a duo with a new player and they escaped a lot more due to comms. "killer heading your way" that simple quick comment said between having a laugh and joking around still enabled them to pre run avoiding the need to loop (which they couldnt do).
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057742#Comment_4057742
Though I'm quite sure many people lie about their matches, or at least exaggerate, if we go down that road then there's zero point in any conversations that happens here. I could post the details of my most recent 4mans that show most matches having one or zero escapes but that would make this thread very long. If I'd clipped it, I could post the recent match where I had to use a key that we've been bringing in and hiding, along with a hatch offering, so one of us can get out because that's how bad the situation is for the dreaded 4man.
It's wild to say that I'm just dying on purpose every match and for...reasons? I like dying? I'm a masochist? I want to throw off my stats even though I intentionally don't abandon so they're accurate? Idk.
i already explained why you might be inclined to die…to take one for the team so you get your "win" if your under the impression that 1 man dying and 3 out is a win. Makes perfect sense and a logical thing to do. If you thought dying was a loss then it make no sense to die for your team but you clearly view it as a win.
Im just saying a counter point to your argument and suggesting a possible explanation for the low escape rate which you cant deny is a possibility. Theoretically a weaker player can be in an SWF team and die alot, they might not be bothered by dying because they see it as a win when 3 others escape….but escape rates dont take into account "team escapes" they take into account the individual so claiming you have a low escape rate to suggest SWF teams dont win often can be disputed. Unless your saying dying is a loss for you even if your team escapes? then it makes no sense to sacrifice yourself for the good of the team. But while you view it as win to die while others escape you have given valid reason to not only die for the team (reducing your escape rate) but also to be perfectly happy with doing so (because you feel you won).
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@Cassiopeiae said:
Tunneling isn’t an effective strategy 99% of the time, and that 1% happens due to a survivor's mistake, not a deliberate killer choice. Strong survivors will just hammer out gens while you tunnel one person for a single kill. Do it enough times and you eventually get matched with those same high‑skill survivors, and then it’s back to the forums to complain that the game is unbalanced. The cycle never ends.
If tunneling looks like a good strategy to you, it’s only because you’re not actually facing strong survivors. You’re also not tracking the match well enough to know where people are, which gens have progress, or how to interrupt their setup. Without that gamesense, tunneling feels like the “best” option, but it’s really just masking the real problem.
while i agree tunneling is mostly effective due to survivors own mistakes, this is way more than 1%. playing as killer and survivor i can pretty much guarantee at some point in 90% of matches people will make mistakes and bad choices that enable the killer to tunnel. It truly is astonishing how many people with over 3k hours still unhook way too soon or unhook when still in the killers TR…even looping the killer next to the hooked survivor.
Tunneling does have nuance behind it, i for example hard tunnel at 5 gens almost every time. i have to make a judgment call if that person im tunneling is too good and need to change targets, if they are in a good loop location, if too many gens are popping, try to push the one im tunneling into a position where they have to run towards the gen workers thus tunneling and maintaining map pressure. If the survivors are too strong then tunneling will fail and i will need to change tactics
I think the whole "your not facing good survivors" is sort of a non argument. I could say if you can loop the killer for more than 30sec then you are not going against a good killer. I have thousands of hours of this game playing both sides and i have seen the difference between good and bad players, when i first started playing i was going against pretty bad players and i won without tunneling. As time went on i started getting SWF swat teams that knew what they were doing, knew how to loop, knew every inch of the maps. These teams are good and trying to beat them without tunneling was getting me nowhere. When i started tunneling i evened the odds. it meant i could stand toe to toe with these teams and things were a lot more balanced.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Voice chat doesn't automatically make people better at the game. Many people who group up are playing for fun with friends and not sweating, and people who play solo can be competitive without it.
Not to mention that the stats already show that being in a group isn't some ticket to instant win any more. If anything, there's a weak correlation between grouping up and dying more often by being altruistic.
Dbd doesn't need voice and probably couldn't handle it anyway. A simple ping or pre-set call-out wheel with a cooldown to prevent spamming would be nice, but would simply be a qol change at this point.
SWF with comms don't make people better at the game but they can aid in escapes, that's the point. With Comms you don't need to be good at the game.
Perfect example is when I played in a duo with a brand new player, they had like 10 hours of gameplay and they were able to escape more teamed with me than with solo due to my call outs. They didn't have to know how to loop because they could pre run or walk away before the killer even go to them so they didn't have to loop. Was this new player good? Not at all. Did comms help them escape? Absolutely.
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057743#Comment_4057743
I'm not going to do any of that at all, so you are correct. Now, please continue.
Continue what exactly? I have already said what I wanted to say, unless you have something to discuss or add, which you have said you don't....so I'm not sure what you expect lol.
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057705#Comment_4057705
Your point never had legs. You're just good with mental gymnastics. But its entertaining. So continue.
Good argument, I will make sure to make note of that. Can't dispute it so come up with a random comment... Or downvote as many do lol. Never had legs yet can't argue against it? Come on now 😂
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057705#Comment_4057705
And I'm telling you that's not the case. I'm not the team punching bag. We are just losing, plain and simple. Will I trade? Yeah. But so will they, so the ERs will be similar if we all play similar.
So we are to take your word on that? You might trade and so might your team but you also might not. It's possible your telling the truth, it's possible your lying or even mistaken just how much you actually throw yourself under the bus for the sake of the team. I'm simply saying you giving a low escape rate doesn't prove your point any more than me showing an escape rate of over 70% and me saying "I never abandon, I always escape via the gate".
It's good that you offer some sort of "evidence" to back your claim but without solid proof there is always room for error and I have merely pointed out a flaw in your argument while pointing out a flaw in your evidence.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057707#Comment_4057707
You can't proudly proclaim you have no empathy then lecture people on empathy. Saying it's the majority isn't fair. That's an assumption. And even the ones that do might not take it as seriously as you. Not everyone loses their cool over a game.
It's not just a matter of morals. Even taking tunneling as a strategy, you're crutching on one thing instead of learning all the other things and keeping sharp with them. It's why tunnelng also fails, because hyperfocusing on one person while gens fly around you is braindead.
But you are again admitting it's not even about strategy for many, it's about petty tilt. So there's a divide between "I tunnel because I have too" and "I tunnel because I hate everyone" which makes it a form of punishment disguised as strategy.
I'm pretty sure killers that tunnel don't rely only on tunneling, they rely on anti loops, knowing when to drop chase, general game sense.
I can lecture about empathy when I see blatant double standards and hypocrisy by someone saying they have empathy then clearly showing no empathy. At least I'm consistent, I can empathise with people, I just don't care. You claim to empathize with people and do care then say the complete opposite when people say they don't like something such as being t bagged. You either have no empathy for these people or you do but like me... don't care.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057678#Comment_4057678
It's not that I don't understand why they're bothered, it's that I don't understand why they take their anger out on strangers that didn't do the thing they're mad about. I'm suppsed to be empathetic when you randomly lash out at people? If you're 14, sure, I can understad that hormonal instabliby, but I don't think anyone complaining about tbagging in this forum is 14. The team that tbagged you last round isn't the one you're playing against next round. Also, it's not a double standard if the things are, again, not equivalent. The killer gets tbagged at that gates when they got to play a whole round. The tunneled survivor (and probably their team) have the whole match ruined.
We have these things in society called "morals". They exist independently of laws and, though personal, are generally relatable across a culture or cultures. It's why you see common threads in complaints about this game.
I suppose you don't understand it because you self isolate and haven't had to hear the burnout and frustration in the voices of a lot of cool and wholesome people. I've had a lot of friends walk away because of tunneling. I've yet to have any walk away because of tbagging though.
Just because a killer played out a match doesn't mean they enjoyed it and doesn't negate the killer not liking the end game tbags. This is where your lack of empathy shows. It's not just the previous match, it's almost every single match, it's like the dome thing that the vast majority of players do. It's not lashing out, it's playing the game in a way that they don't have to deal with the bit they don't like.
Morals have no place in a video game where people literally kill other people. Morals are highly subjective, which is why inventing your own rules based on your own morals does not mean anyone not doing so isnt playing the game properly. Different people have different morals based on many things such as culture... Your abide by your morals if you want but you can't say people that don't play your way are not playing properly.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057689#Comment_4057689
By that logic, we should be taking turns dying and all have higher ERs. We generally lose as a team, and not because of altruistic throwing, it's because the game is killler-sided, comms don't make you good, and varying MMRs in a party make for bad matchmaking.
Pretty much implies that you can have low escape rate and still "win" if your team escapes meaning your likely to throw your own escape down the pan under the belief that you actually won.
Starting to feel like a broken record here, but I don't think about winning that much. If I trade or die for friends it's because they're friends, not because I care about the idea of it being a perceived win.
My point still stands, you saying your escape rate being low as evidence of SWF having comms makes no difference is debunked due to you possibly sacrificing yourself for your team. In doing this, your escape rate would drop but it's possible that your 3 other team mates could be escaping therefore the killer losing.