runningguy
runningguy
About
- Username
- runningguy
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000528#Comment_4000528
I play lower tier killers, I dont NEED to tunnel against good survivors.
Besides that, the basekit bbq, basekit pop, basekit 10% kick after hooking everyone once. All things that will aid.
Against tournament squads? Yeah, sure, I would lose those without running the sweatiest build. But here's a thought: So what? SO WHAT. 1 game I will get absolutely demolished despite my best efforts. That is the killer in need of a buff, not an excuse to keep tunnelling in the game as is right now. If a killer needs to tunnel, get that specific killer buffed.
And I 100% rather play the next 3 months only against Nurse with the changes they proposed(which I do consider too extreme, it DOES need tweaking), than play the game as is right now.
Other than that, what variety? Haste Clown, Kaneki, Double speed addon Blight, Tombstone Myers, Nurse. Billy if you're lucky.
And no, its not a whole new system that is needed. Blocking gens IS a good solution to prevent rushing out a survivor at 4-5 gens "just cus". If you're a good killer, survivors wont be able to escape anyway. So what if the gen count reaches 0? You still got a 3k. You still won. I never worried about gen count ever, if I get 3-4 kills, I won. regardless if there are 0 or 5 gens remaining. By the time you NEED to tunnel someone out, you should already focus on your endgame plan.
The average gens remaining at the end of a match is 3. If balance was healthy, that average should be around 1.3.
The system they proposed requires tweaks, as an example:
1. Sadako's mori should be considered as that survivor having reached 3 full hooks.
2. The 25% is generally speaking fine, especially considering killers get 10% kick regression bonus per non-subsequent hook and a permanent 5% kick regression bonus.
3. The haste bonus for non-subsequent hooks should last untill the next time the killer uses an ability or hits an injured survivor. Effectively the conspicious action version for killers. Mobility killers would effectively lose it instantly, killers like Trapper could in theory use it forever.
The system needs tweaking, but that doesnt mean a baseline version with reduced numbers can be placed live, just to stop the current behaviour.then your a very skilled player to achieve a good kill rate with low tier killers without tunneling lol. most players including myself have spent hundreds of hours trying achieve what you have done and it just doesnt seem to work. so the choice is, keep trying for however many hours trying to win without tunneling and having a poor experience doing it or or tunnel and even the odds to keep the 60% kill rate. clearly the devs know tunneling is needed to some degree otherwise they wouldnt care how punishing it is for killers because they shouldnt be tunneling. the fact they have realised this and dont want it too punishing means they want tunneling to remain for the ones that need it and the situations the require it.
as for the average gens at the end being 3, from my experience as survivor, this is because survivors just dont touch gens (which the killer doesnt need to tunnel to win) but when survivors actually try and do the gens they fly like theres no tomorrow. thats when tunneling is needed. unfortunately the killer doesnt know if they will be against people that actually play the game or if they are going against a solo squad that wants spin around in circles instead of doing gens, so the killer often assumes they will play the game, do gens so need to tunnel
-
@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000551#Comment_4000551
no im not saying that, thats just what you chose to get out of what i said because of your bias. what doesnt make sense is treating every single match as if its against comp communication level and experience swf despite it be a very VERY small portion of not only players, but swf groups. You justify toxic unhealthy gameplay because you have a had a few rough matches against swf. The thing is though….as killer the only way to know if it is swf is if they tell you or you can see it on their steam or whatever social media. So a plethora of you are just assuming it is swf. Even so. most swf are just a couple of people who wanna play a game with their friends. Most do not take this game as seriously as you.
what i AM saying is. If you cannot win via healthy means. you are not in your skill bracket. it has nothing to do with swf as swf are in all brackets and killers beat swf in all brackets without needing to tunnel….even as trapper. it has to do with your specific performance and methods causing your mmr to artificially inflate. Even if high MMR is 100% comp survivor 4 man swf. Why do you care about getting to that mmr? do you get prizes? cool stickers? no you dont. you dont even see your mmr. So youre essentially tunneling and forcing yourself to go against these players all out of pride and ego. Take the L. Winning isnt everything. Let your mmr drop to a point where it is natural for you. thats what mmr is for.
your logic makes no sense based on my experience. when i started playing i didnt tunnel at all and i got a balance of wins and losses. Then i hit a wall and would lose almost every match. how long do you expect people to lose consistently to get that mmr down? after a couple hundred hours i thought this isnt fun at all so i started tunneling to pick up a few wins. now im going against sweaty swf on coms an a regular basis and tunneling doesnt always work so im maintaining my balance of wins and losses. if i did it your way i would have quit the game long ago because losing time after time wasnt fun. thats not healthy for the game.
if you flip it though, tunneling can and has been countered. i myself have countered being tunneled with a good team. if you cant counter being tunneled then maybe you should take the loss and get that mmr down so you can v a killer thats not as good at tunneling? loop better, have a better team behind you and you can counter it otherwise killers would have a kill rate of 100% which i assure you they dont. the 60/40 balance the devs had as a goal and finally achieved is WITH tunneling. remove it and watch the kill rate drop, you will soon see exactly how much certain killers need to tunnel to keep that 60% kill rate
-
@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000528#Comment_4000528
if you NEED to tunnel then you are playing out of your skillset and playing against people better than you. That is going to happen. You are going to lose at some point. Yall need to except the loss and allow mmr (which noone can see, so ego wont be harmed), to drop to a level where your natural skillset is viable. Thats what mmr is for, pairing players of similar skill against each other. By tunneling for that desperate cheese method of a win, you are artificially inflating your mmr which forces you to continue to tunnel. An actual self-fulfilling prophecy. The comp kid desperation for a win is the only thing keep the myth "tunneling is necessary" alive.
so your saying killers v solo players in same skill bracket dont need to tunnel but at some point they will go against swf teams that have far more advantage over solo players, at this point its time to take the loss? doesnt make sense
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000509#Comment_4000509
They just need to change it so you get the adept and the challenge credit. I don't want to go from playing against a bad killer who was guaranteed to lose to an OP bot who somehow turns it into a win.
But if it's as dumb as the survivor bots have been lately, then sure, a bot is fine.
just as dumb and just as tedious lol. i recently had a match as kill where i hooked killed 1 survivor, hooked 2, downed 1. all 3 survivors abandon before i can press the pick up button to hook the last one. a bot frees themselves from hook, frees the other bot on hook so im hunting 2 bots at this stage, then the other bot gets unhooked. Now im in a match v 3 bots because survivors abandoned instantly. i can abandon also at this stage but its a loss for the killer to do so because its not over and a bot can potentially escape, i have to finsh the match to get the win. The same rules should apply the other way around, killer abandons, bot killer remains and can potentially pull off a kill.
-
@Defnotmeghead said:
The update, sure, needs tweaks. But why not implement a version with reduced numbers that basically only have impact in specific cases?
6 hooks too many to block gens? Depends on the killer, but reduce it to 4 so that at least someone else needs to be hooked first.
25% being too much of a boost? Drop it to 10%. Barely will have an impact, but it will give survivors some hope of finishing 4 gens if someone dies early.
Anti-slug can be implemented as is, Twins needs a rework anyway. If it needs tweaks, then do so later. Undying was up for 5 months before it got tweaked. Ghoul has been in an annoying state for forever too. Killers can deal with 3 months of anti-slug potentially being a bit too punishing
Keep the basekit bbq and 5% permanent regression bonus per unique survivor hooked too.
THEN tweak the rest around it. Its a baseline that would just make games more than just singularity basically camping with biopods, or a trickster dropping chase because main event is ready and the basekit BT is just a minor obstacle.
But fully delaying it for another 3 months? No. Sorry, Done. I already waited over a year to finally hear an update about a viable basekit anti-slug and some tweaks to anti-tunnel. I've waited 6 months since the emergency abandon feature. If I need to wait for another 3 months, thats going to be 3 months playing something else.even with your proposed figure changes it still doesnt solve the issue that certain low tier killers NEED to tunnel hard against good survivors so the changes would either have no effect or essentially kill the killer role. maybe the devs have realised this and dont want every match to be v same 3/4 killers as they are they only ones to perform good enough without tunneling. if i have to v nurse or blight more than i already do i wouldnt touch survivor. i rather tunneling remain and atleast go against a variety of killers. its not just tweaks thats needed its a whole new system thats needed.
-
@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000490#Comment_4000490
I'm okay with that if survivors still end the match with an "escape" and gain the 7k bloodpoints
or introduce bot killer. i mean survivors can abandon but the killer still has to play the match v a bot, killer dont get free wins the second the survivor abandons. survivors should have the same imo, when killer abandons then the survivors still have to finish the match v a bot.
-
@MostBestPlayer said:
I am not playing a game as pig in an open map where i get my first hook at almost 2 gens left, no point anymore
i dont see why not, survivors can abandon when the match is looking dire for them so why not have that for killer too? This further highlights the issue of the game state. Gens pop so fast that certain killers really do have to tunnel hard to stand a chance. So many open maps that survivors can see the killer coming from the other side of the map long before TR kicks in, they pre run. Loads of times i have been survivor on maps like coldwind farm, watching a ghostface or pig sneaking around like a fool thinking they will have the element of surprise but actually i saw them coming long ago. Killers like pig, trapper, myers, pyramid head, that have no speed dash ability or teleport really struggle hence why the popular killers are speed freaks like blight, ghoul ect. Yes there are indoor maps where killers like pig thrive but the percentage of outdoor open maps is way more than the few indoor maps. For example i played killer for like 8 hours straight a while a go, i got an indoor map maybe 3 times in 8 hours. Hardly an even split.
-
its astounding how people dont see it for what it is. its an elimination game but people complain when they are eliminated.
survivors use the optimal strat to stay alive (looping). is it really fun going in circles? no, but they do it because it works and its efficient. Survivors can travel the map, lose line of sight, hide which is way more fun than the ridiculous comedy sketch of circling a pallet or the shack. "but thats what survivors are supposed to do" fair enough but killers are supposed to kill so dont complain when they kill you. The way its going bhvr should change the name from killers to hookers lmao thats what people want, for the killer to hook all match not actually killing anyone or reducing the number of survivors in the match.
There are perks to counter tunneling just like there are perks to slow gens down for the killer. "but we want to use different perks, not just anti tunnel" fair enough but there are 16 perks spread out between the 4 survivors and many survivor perks not only effect that player but effects the whole team. killer has 4 perks and more often than not the 4 perks are regress perks. You need to work as a team to survive not just rely on your own 4 perks. "But i play solo" thats the issue. If players can win playing solo without efficient team work, what do you think SWF that do have good team work, coms and synergy will be like? They would destroy the killer with ease. Bottom line is, this is a team game. you need team effort to counter tunneling and win.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
Its mainly fun for the Killers because they can play with a friend. Survivor is miserable in 2v8 and BHVR is not really doing any actual improvements. I mean, we are at the 5th (or 4th?) iteration of 2v8 and they still want to make Survivors play by giving them a msasive BP-Bonus.
And I think even for Killers the novelty wears off. I dont really play 2v8 and always groan if I see that they implement challenges where you are forced to play 2v8. As I said, Survivor is miserable. But Killer is also not that fun for me, especially after that one time where I waited 30 minutes in a queue just to have the other Killer playing as Wraith and sandbagging me the whole game. Personally, I also think that the play while you wait-feature is not really a good solution. It is A solution, but not a good one. Because in the end, if I want to play Killer, I want to play Killer, not Survivor. And apparently there are Killers out there who queue and then try to get out of the game as fast as possible when their wait time for playing Killer is coming to an end to be in the Killer Lobby ASAP.
And, I have not experienced that myself, having to wait for Killers to end their Survivor-Matches as Survivor just increases the queuetimes…
So yeah, people like 2v8, but I think those will become less and less and for me personally it is a waste of time to work on that mode.
lmao sandbagging wraith for a team mate? That sounds like the type of team mates i get very often as survivor in 1 v 4 which is why i dont really like survivor role. My experience as killer in 2 v 8 was much the same, useless team mates like a sulking legion sitting in the corner on the map becuase he was teamed up with a trapper instead of oni. With that in mind, i found survivor better in 2 v 8 because there are so many people it makes the useless ones less noticeable. in 1 v 4 if i get 1 or 2 useless team mates it shows very quickly in the match.
-
its the survivor way. drop pallet, t bag. drop another pallet, another t bag. go for the pick up on a survivor. get flashed, drop the survivor. another t bag before they run off. At the gates, wait for killer…..few more t bags. after chasing them out go to the other gate…few more t bags. 1 survivor left….they are sitting on hatch waiting. another couple t bags.
killer humps a downed survivor while they waiting a few seconds for 3rd survivor to reach 2nd stage so they can mori? UNACCEPTABLE! abandon.
-
@mooasis said:
with the conceptualisation of killer being limited in their ability to kill a survivor as quickly as possible, we also need to standardise the survivor objective and reduce their ability to finish each generator as quickly as possible.
my idea is simple and doesnt have any bells and whistles: a generator cannot be completed in any less than 70 seconds under any circumstance (except for if a survivor is considered to be tunnelled out i guess). there are probably more elegant solutions changing things across the board, but maybe this is a decent bandaid for now
completely agree, if killers are forced to delay kills then gen speed absolutely needs to be knocked back. the issue with that is a large section of players already hate touching gens because its boring sitting there pressing a skill check now and then and shows no skill. The argument pushed by many survivors is chase and interaction is the fun and skilful part. Who wants this boring gen mechanic to be prolonged further? maybe if survivors had additional objectives on top of doing gens (similar to the blood gens mechanic)? Maybe have an item they need to find first? im not sure what exactly but something that involves a bit of movement and risk or a little mini game of some sort to keep players attention so they wouldnt mind putting the extra time into doing it. Asking a survivor to spend more time on a gen just wont go down well.
alternatively, if gen speeds remain the same, maybe make it easier for all types of killers to get downs not just the ever so popular speed freaks and nurse.
-
@DragonMasterDarren said:
This has been something that has been on my mind for a while but has come up again with the 9.2.0 PTB. I already spoke my mind about what I think about the new content and the changes being made but if you didn't read that, here's the TLDR, I think the anti-tunnel and anti-slug systems are a good thing in spirit, they were just way too harsh and rather ham-fisted, punishing unhealthy playstyles is a good thing, but punishing gameplay most of the community can agree is perfectly fine isn't.
So with the outcry being enough that the anti-tunnel and anti-slug won't be coming to live, I noticed that a lot of people seem to, at least in my opinion, misinterpret the intent behind them, that being that the devs want to punish the Killer for trying to win.
Let me make my thoughts on that line of thinking clear. I've been playing for almost 3k hours, most of that time is on Killer, and I do not think any Killer regardless of their strength specifically needs to tunnel someone out at the start of the game in order to win, especially not a S tier killer like Nurse or Blight. Hooks and Kills are not the only way a Killer can generate pressure and slow down Survivors, simply downing somebody is already knocking someone out of the game until they can be picked up, keeping them busy with things like Infection systems on some killers as well forces people off of generators, hell simply chasing them generates pressure because that's one less person doing the objective, if you are playing Blight with Quad Slowdown and both Speed Addons and think you need to kill someone at 5 gens to stand a chance at winning then you are not nearly as good or as knowledgeable at Killer as you think you are. If a Survivor is playing aggressively and very clearly wants to be chased then by all means go for them, but you don't need to kill someone as soon as possible in order to win.
As far as I am concerned, regardless of its strength, Tunnelling is one of the unhealthiest playstyles a Killer can engage in. Lets say a Killer is Tunnelling with the express intention of winning, they're probably stressed because they're not able to kill the survivor fast enough, the person being chased isn't having fun because the Killer is on their ass the entire match, aren't getting any Bloodpoints, and if they aren't good in chase then they'll be back sitting in queues in under 5 minutes, and the other 3 survivors aren't having fun because their only real gameplay option is doing gens, which comprises entirely of holding a button for 90 seconds and occasionally pressing Spacebar, that is it. Maybe the Killer and Survivor being chased are having fun if all they care about is chases regardless of how it goes, but that's still only 40% of the people in a match that are enjoying themselves, the other 60% are bored out of their mind. Want to know why most of your SoloQ games end with people not on gens? Because gens are boring and the other Survivors not being chased are probably out looking for literally anything else to do. This is why so many people ask for another objective to be added, Survivor gameplay is incredibly dull and unfun if the Killer is focused solely on one person, and, when the entire point of a video game is to have fun playing it, Tunnelling creates a scenario where 3 of the 5 people in a match at minimum are pretty much unable to actually have fun.
Now, this is the point where people are probably going to tell me that Killers are not responsible for Survivors fun and vice versa. To which I say, what exactly happens when people don't have fun playing a game? They quit, they leave, and if it's a multiplayer game and you have no one to play with, you can't play. So no, both sides are responsible for each other's fun, because if they aren't then there won't be a other side to play against. You can't engage in a playstyle that all but ensures no one in the match has fun, say "I don't care about your fun" and then complain when queues take 5 minutes or longer, you can't have your cake and eat it too. The best way to shorten queues is to make both roles less miserable and more fun to play, and the easiest way to do that is to punish playstyles that aren't fun, this was the intention behind the anti go-next system, the anti-afk system to prevent extreme hiding, and the anti-tunnel and anti-slug systems.
This is where I loop back to the title, the reason these strategies and the mentally of "Up yours I do what I want" is so prevalent is because the community at large has a "Win at all costs" mindset, any strategy besides cheating is perfectly acceptable if it means you win the game. This mindset, to me, is extremely baffling for a simple reason, Dead By Daylight doesn't encourage or reward winning.
Like really think about what you get for "Winning" a match of DBD as Killer and Survivor, both sides get a slightly different message in the post game lobby, some pips for emblems if they are lucky, harder matches in the future because of the MMR system, and Survivors get 7000 or 8500 Survival points, and Killers get 2500 Deviousness points for killing everyone, points in a category that most of the roster maxes out halfway into the match anyway so realistically Killer gets nothing for winning. The long and short of it is, at least from my perspective, you get absolutely nothing for winning, and as for losing? You miss out on the aforementioned Bloodpoints and…that's about it, you don't lose pips for your Rank, and because the SBMM system is a complete joke that should have never been implemented your matches will be easier because you lose MMR. There is no true reward for victory beyond progressing Rift challenges and your own personal enjoyment, and that's where the issue then comes, if winning a match of DBD served a actual purpose and you got real, tangible rewards for doing so, then I'd see the argument for Tunnelling, it'd be stupid and bad for the reasons listed above, but I could see it. As it stands right now though, the argument of "I should be allowed to to kill someone at 5 gens and ignore everyone else because it's the most efficient way to win and winning feels good" is a argument I find to be flawed, after all, this same logic applies to Genrushing as well doesn't it? After all, doing gens quickly is the most efficient way to win, But Killer mains hate that, they think Survivors shouldn't be allowed to do gens too quickly because it isn't fun. See how quickly that argument can be flipped on its head? If Tunnelling is fine, Genrushing is fine, after all, victory's all that matters, right?
Sarcasm aside, how what can we as a community to do to make Tunnelling, and by extension other unfun strategies, less of an issue? Simple really, take a load off and relax. Killers don't have to tunnel, Survivors don't have to rush generators, both sides can take in a match to goof off, chase each other, maybe get some funny clips. Matches don't need to end in 5 minutes nor do does someone have to be taken out in 2 minutes, this is a casual game with a lot of RNG and balancing so comically bad its almost intentional. Nobody has to play like this is a competitive tournament with money on the line.
Let me be clear here, I am not saying “Don’t play to win” I am saying “Don’t let your desire to win make the game less fun for the other side”, if you want to try and win then go on ahead, just remember that you’re not playing against bots, you’re playing with real people with feelings too, and besides, close matches that are down to the wire are more fun anyway.Am I yelling into the void trying to offer a solution to a problem that has become ingrained into the game's culture? Probably, am I still going to hope that we can find a elegant solution to problems that will continue to impact the game's long time health? God I hope so
G'night
i agree to some degree that people play to win a bit too much but in my experience and the experience voiced by countless people on various platforms, the reason why people play to win so hard is because of the consequences of the loss. losing a game and having people BM you every time and spout toxic comments and gloating isnt fun. winning a match lessens this effect and while people can still say and do toxic things atleast the player that wins can walk away smiling knowing "atleast i won"
This is a result of the community as a whole. when i first started playing the game many years ago people were not that bad and for me the game wasnt that serious. But as the years have gone by the level of toxicity has increased so now if i want to avoid a mental battering by the opposition i play to win at all cost. They might say some horrible things and BM me in the match but when i win im the one smiling :)
-
@ImWinston said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000083#Comment_4000083
- You're right, but what kind of skill is tunnel hard with a Blight, Nurse, or Kaneki? If you're on Haddonfield or Rancid Abattoir... where exactly is the skill? I don't know, maybe I have a different concept of skill than 99% of DBD players.🤣
true, doesnt take much skill but then neither does doing gens pressing a button. if skill was a requirement to win then all survivors should be forced into 1 v 1 in a duel situation with the killer show their skill lol. Many of my matches im the only one doing gens. if the killer has a hard time with the other survivors and i dont get chased at all im not showing any skill by sitting on a gen pressing the odd button now and then doing my objective. i dont think im less deserving of an escape because i didnt show skill while doing gens. same as the killers, they are not less deserving of a win because they show no skill by tunneling imo. works both ways
-
@ImWinston said:
- I can confirm from my limited experience… tunneling is literally out of control. I recommend everyone use OTR or DS during this time. I don't know what's going on.🤣if someone can explain it to me, maybe a very knowledgeable player or a moderator
its because killers know survivors still dont know how to counter tunneling. killers can pretty much rely on survivors making mistake after mistake, going for early saves instead of doing gens. when survivors play well tunneling really isnt effective. i have been tunneled (not as much as some people apparently) but when im tunneled and my team plays well it doesnt pay off for the killer. it just so happens its rare i get a good team and im stuck with people that refuse to touch gens and play poorly which means tunneling does pay off for the killer
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000019#Comment_4000019
The developers were very clear that the systems will be returning after being tweaked.
Like the skull merchant rework, you mean?
and the AFK crows
-
while i agree tombstone is OP for unskilled survivors, myers in general is a pretty low tier killer. Even tombstone doesnt make myers S tier. skilled survivors know how to counter myers, avoid line of sight, use lockers, remain on gens or hop on a totem to avoid tombstone. easy to loop as he has literally no anti loop at all. i enjoy playing as and against OG myers, its a breath of fresh air playing against a scary stalker instead of the constant speed freaks that fly around the map at 100mph like blight, wesker, nurse, billy, ghoul, clown.
-
@GillyBeannn said:
Slugging I'd argue is not as big of a deal as it once was back then, we have perks and we have the abandon feature, instead introduce the new mechanic of Altruistic Sacrifice, where;
Whenever a 2v1 scenario happens that the killer refuses to kill the second to last survivor by any means, and if left on the ground for 60 seconds, give that survivor the option to forcibly bleed out and die within 8 seconds.
It would stop stalemate games prolonging and give just a tiny bit hope for 50/50 escape through hatch mind you, or through doors, and for the survivor that scarifies themselves will overall get a boost in altruism points/ emblemsAnd if you wanna argue that if you wanna got next faster and just give the killer the kill, it defeats the purpose of tense situations where 1v1's can be the most adrenalizing clutch feeling for both the killer and survivor of will they or won't make it? This game's system too doesn't count hatch escapes as a win too, and counts it as tie. And if we want to as well, take Otz's idea of making the 3k just as valuable and equal in points just like the 4k.
the problem with that is the killer can still pick up 3rd survivor and chase them endlessly around the map untill 4th survivor finally decides to come out of hiding or the 3rd survivor rats them out. 60 seconds on the ground just wouldnt happen because the killer would pick up, let go and chase again.
2 v 1 situations can be dealt with easy by removing hatch and starting egc after X amount of time has passed. do the gens or perish. hatch itself is an outdated system and in my experience its rarely 50/50 chance because hatch spawn points have very limited rng of spawn points. good survivors that play the game a lot know exactly where these spawn points are. they head to 1 of these location and hide untill 3rd survivor dies on the other side of the map then as soon as hatch spawns they hop in before killer can has a chance to get there. survivor can wait at a possible hatch spawn while killer is busy with the other survivor. the killer doesnt have that luxury of waiting at a possible hatch spawn, they have to go wherever the survivor leads the chase to which puts the hatch escape in favour of the survivor.
evidence of this is shown by many videos online where survivors run to hatch spawns before it spawns and even in my matches i slugged a toxic survivor and literally watched them crawl to a seemingly random location and wait. 3rd survivor dies on hook, hatch spawn directly under the slugged survivor. this is made even worse by using hatch offerings.
the game system doesnt count hatch escape as a win but it does reward BP and offering tie instead of a loss just incentivises survivors to hide and settle for a tie instead of a loss in a match they have clearly lost. I know survivors want hatch as a means of last hope in a hopeless match but imo the hope of winning is there at the start of the match and if that hope eventually dwindles down to 0 then its time to accept defeat, get the match over and move on.
-
@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999770#Comment_3999770
yeah? but doing nothing would've been better than whatever they just did with that PTB, really cringe and now you can enjoy tunnel fiesta for the next X months. You know it's bad when trash 2v8 is more fun than the real mode, I can only play events in this game now it's a breath of fresh air… real game is a sad turd
well most people knew what would happen but bhvr maintains the whole "we need to put our hands in fire to test if it will burn us" attitude. logic and common sense would say these changes would never work but in true bhvr fashion they tried it anyway. they would have been better to just say it as it is, tunneling is part of the game like looping is. dont like going in circles round a pallet like scooby doo? dont play the game. dont like the 1/4 chance you will be tunneled out at the start? dont play the game.
as for the 2 v 8, i got fed up with 3 weeks of wesker dashing around the place and having tag team oni/legion. for me, normal mode is the better option….untill the 1001 clowns start popping up match after match lol
-
@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999743#Comment_3999743
there's nothing to say it's been the same replies for years now.. "tunneling is a valid strategy", "it's a survivor skill issue, learn to loop", "you have antitunnel perks just use them", "the killer can't win without tunneling"
then you finally get 2 DAYS of PTB after years of nothing, all social medias are in flames > > immediately canceled because "too punishing for killers" xDD
the fact that they said its too punishing for killers means that tunneling is a necessity, kill tunneling off and killers just cant keep up. otherwise why would it matter if its too punishing? shouldnt be tunneling right? so it shouldnt make a difference if its too punishing. But they acknowledge tunneling is needed so cant punish it too much. therefore it is indeed a valid strategy and killers cant win without it. not saying its fun or right that tunneling is needed so much but i do think people need to understand just how important tunneling is for a killer. its like taking away survivors pallets, they are needed and taking them away would be detrimental. not everyone relies on tunneling, different killers can cope without tunneling but a huge section of the player base and a good selection of killers cant cope without it.
-
@kaneyboy said:
games are awful lately since they decided that being tunnelled didn't need a nerf in the PTB. Its so great being BM'd 3 games in a row and receiving horrible toxic chat from killers at the end basically laughing in our faces because we where helpless against the tunnel. Something needs done sooner than later because killer queue is about to get even longer.
only 3 games in a row being BM'd? try playing killer, you get BM'd a hell of a lot more than that lmao
-
@kisfenkin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999589#Comment_3999589
Why fix a major issue in Dead by Daylight? Why are you on the Forums?
The question is not whether the issue exists. It does. The devs acknowledge it as a problem and have said they intend to fix it. The point that I am making is that NOTHING will fix it, except removing it as an option.
So, if you don't want DbD to be fixed, why don't you go play something else. I want them to fix it in a way that is not so obtuse that nobody can remember all the imaginary rules. They are planning on fixing it. So I suggest my idea. You don't like them removing tunneling? Too bad it is coming one way or another.
i said it before and will say again, they wont remove tunneling. they will reduce the effect of tunneling at best. the 1 shot they had at removing tunneling was shot down by the community because it was too punishing for killers. therefor logic says tunneling will remain to some degree and wont be "fixed".
i also dont think tunneling is the issue. thats a consequence of the direction the devs are pushing the game. clearly they are going for a high speed, constant action type of match. this is shown with the gen regress perks being nerfed so gens dont take forever and the high mobility killers recently so they can speed around the map. aura reading perks all over the place to get people in the action asap. increased pallets so survivors can spend more time in chase. stealth play being less and less effective. all this points towards speed and action being the aim of the game. as a result killers will kill as fast as they can which means tunneling people out 1 by 1 to try and win the race. the race being can survivors do gens before the killer can kill or can the killer kill before gens are done? want tunneling to ease up? slow the damn game down lol
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999708#Comment_3999708
Or maybe it's—and I quote—a skill issue. Because if you rely solely on cheese tactics you aren't getting any better at the real strategies. What skill was expressed in slugging everyone two minutes into the match? And what's the point of such a hollow victory? If you can't win any other way, then improve.
But I don't think my very average overall ER of 40% is going to help your argument. The players with 80%+ KRs from tunneling and slugging might help mine though.
people always bring up skill, if 1 survivor is skillfully looping the killer for ages what skill are the 3 other survivors showing by pressing a button on gens? doing gens is the objective and doing them fast and efficient is optimal, is it skillful? i would say no if the killer is in chase with someone else, they can knock out gens without worry. killing survivors is the killers objective, luring them into a slug trap is sometimes efficient and optimal. is it skilful? i would say no although the killer does have to show some skill to down the survivor in the first place. it works both ways. skill doesnt equate to win for either side
perfect example, i recently had a match where no one touched gens and just looped the killer. i did pretty much all gens on my own, didnt get chased once and i escaped. what skill was expressed by me? absolutely none.
its all well and good saying "improve" but in practice its not as easy just click yout fingers and oh look im good. i know people that have tried for hundreds of hours to "get good" and they still cant win without tunneling so some have left the game and some have adopted to tunneling to pick up some wins and actually enjoy the game.
-
@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999713#Comment_3999713
You just know some poor guy is going to wake up the day after the new patch drops and be wondering what BHVR have done to their boy Myers. I don't know, maybe lots of players will really love the new turbo lunge Myers but I'm not so sure about that…
im a p100 myers main so that change is another reason im not bothered with the killer role. the change might be ok and i will give it a go but im already not liking the drastic change lol sounds like a whole different killer
-
@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999676#Comment_3999676
On the flip side of that, I've mostly retired from Survivor and I don't play the role outside of events and time limited modes anymore (because I still enjoy those for the most part). I've barely played Survivor since the go next prevention was added and I don't plan to come back until anti-slug and anti-tunnel is added to the game in some way.
When BHVR make big changes to the way things have been for a very long time, they're always likely to upset people. For me, that was adding an incredibly harsh go next system, instantly nerfing the only new Survivor item we've had in years and pushing the anti-tunnel and anti-slugging back indefinitely.
Good luck keeping everyone happy BHVR, because it probably won't be possible.
i agree wont keep everyone happy, bhvr have their work cut out for them. personally im only sticking around because dbd has no alternative at the moment. im not keen on the survivor loop gameplay and killer gameplay is turning into a dash fest. everything else has died, tcm, friday 13th ect all dead. as soon as something else comes up that rivals dbd im highly likely to swap to that game (hopefully the halloween game next year)
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999667#Comment_3999667
I don't recall the details of all these matches. I remember that one because it was exceptionally unpleasant, and egerious use of dirty tactics.
I'm sure there was some tunneling, camping, and slugging in the others because it's been once every several games for me lately, we just didn't all die from it. The last match in that batch I was tunneled, but it was end game and he was desperate. He couldn't catch me though, and he DCed right before I got to the open gate.
it seems like it highlights the core issue, when killers dont use these dirty tactics they often lose which is why killers use them. to stand a chance at winning. tunneling near the end is too late. survivor escape rate is supposed to be 40% but just out of 10 matches your escape rate is 90% with 10% losing due to dirty tactics. had they not used those tactics you would have 10/10 escapes. hardly any wonder the changes in the update got delayed.
-
with so many abandon options for survivors its getting to a point that survivors can abandon whenever they want. all down? abandon. all bots? abandon. downed twice? abandon. last person downed? abandon. but all survivors at the gate, fully healed, tbagging? can the killer abandon? hell no lol the best abandon option killer has is if survivors cant do gens in 10min so survivors fail to do their objective and the killer can take the loss. crazy system
-
@TheDavidKingMain said:
BHVR you are just shooting your own game in the foot by rolling back the anti slugging / anti tunneling changes that non-biased players have been wanting for YEARS. Why roll them back because of a loud minority of doomer killer mains crying who are too bad to win games skillfully? Survivor is becoming increasingly frustrating with bad killer design (clown, kaneki, nurse, blight, etc), lack of tools given to solo queue, and overall balance clearly shifting in favor of killer even though killrates are already high.
How do they expect to sustain the game when survivors aren't given incentive to play? I imagine killer queue times will skyrocket 2v8 style because nobody will want to play survivor.
Such a knee-jerk reaction by the devs to rollback these changes when it would benefit the majority of the playerbase. It's truly a shame.
same can be said if the changes went through, killers wouldnt want to play killer anymore. the past week so many people in game have said they were getting the kills in before they retire that role and switch to survivor or just quit the game due to the changes.
but to be fair the killer role would manage without survivors better than survivors would manage without killer. lets face it with the abandon thing, survivors are just turning to bots the first chance they get anyway so killers are used to going against bots. whats the survivors going to do without a killer?
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999399#Comment_3999399
So survivors have to have skill and strategy, but killers can just camp a hook and slug anyone who comes for a reacue?
If you're cool with dirty tactics with zero chance of comeback, then fine, but they should go both ways. So tell me what tools survivors have to incapacitate the killer and guarantee a win with no chance of comeback, two minutes into the game.
And for context, here are the other matches I played yesterday.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N1PTV1GL3V1N/screenshot-20250909-095605.jpg
One of these matches is not like the others. So is it a skill issue? Or do some killers just not want to play a proper match and instead abuse mechanics for cheap wins?
im curious, in the matches shown, your saying the 1 match you lost was the 1 match the killer used this tactic?
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999399#Comment_3999399
So survivors have to have skill and strategy, but killers can just camp a hook and slug anyone who comes for a reacue?
If you're cool with dirty tactics with zero chance of comeback, then fine, but they should go both ways. So tell me what tools survivors have to incapacitate the killer and guarantee a win with no chance of comeback, two minutes into the game.
And for context, here are the other matches I played yesterday.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N1PTV1GL3V1N/screenshot-20250909-095605.jpg
One of these matches is not like the others. So is it a skill issue? Or do some killers just not want to play a proper match and instead abuse mechanics for cheap wins?
well if a killer is camping a hook then its the other survivors misplay for not doing gens. if more people just did gens the killer wouldnt bother camping because they would end up with 1k or maybe 2k at best. so theres the come back. killers do that because they know survivors are silly enough to try unhook instead of going for gens. i have been camped and slugged before and when that happens to me i hope survivors leave me there, do gens then maybe save me last min (which has happened many times and we all get out). bottom line is, if a killer is camping there is no gen pressure, if the team doesnt take advantage of that then thats on the team not the killer. during my time of playing this game i have learnt that some people just refuse to learn and will fall into the most obvious traps time and time again.
the killer must have had some skill to down you early…
-
the fact that there are 2 sides competing for opposite goals i would say yes its competitive. the concept of horror and fear doesnt scream out "chill" to me. survivors struggling to stay alive and escape a killer thats constantly hunting them doesnt sound "chill" to me
-
@cogsturning said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BRI4N5OTBPWD/1992c94283544-screenshoturl.jpg
Another fun one from today. This killer downed me early and camped until I went second stage, then slugged everyone. Went AFK and left us all to bleed out for the whole timer. I got 5k BP for this match. The abandon feature is bs. You should be able to have some potential comeback from this behavior, especially with a flat-out refusal to hook.
thats your mistake right there…downed you early. thats skill issue. i mean the killer needs to win a chase 8 times for that to happen (twice per survivor to down them) if the killer hooked you all instead of slugging then the killer won. same applies to being slugged. you wouldnt expect a potential comeback if all are hooked, maybe you would expect that? the abandon option is there because its unanimous the killer won so you can get to the next match instead of remaining slugged.
its interesting that i knew this would happen. survivors complained about being slugged for 4 min so bhvr gave them what they wanted, a way out. now thats not good enough, they dont want a way out they want another second chance.
-
exactly what i have thought for a long time. survivors go into a match, 1 or 2 do nothing all match, killer picks them off and gets blamed by all survivors in that match for "tunneling" or they are "OP". i strongly feel that this is a big issue which has lead to the false issue of tunneling in particular which is why the tunneling reduction would never work. if it works so that survivors can have half the team spin in a circle in the corner of the match and still pick up a win then when survivors actually try to win as a team they would be way too OP.
i have played survivor a lot recently and with the exception nurse, i have felt my losses were either down to my own errors or my team mates. rare i think "killer tunneling is why im out and why im not having fun". i have even had team mates that bring no items and perks and get angry at the killer, i mean really? if people were able to win with no items or perks then people that do bring items and perks would demolish the killer.
recently had similar issue in 2 v 8, i was teamed with a player that refused to pick up survivors. we didnt do very well on that match as a result but is that survivors being OP? killers needing buffs? no, its poor team mates
-
i main myers :)
-
im glad they didnt push the changes, if they did i would certainly have never touched killer again and im sure many others feel that way