runningguy
runningguy
About
- Username
- runningguy
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003358#Comment_4003358
complaining about issues within the game does not mean we don’t like it. In fact the opposite it shows we have passion to change those issues to improve the game.
if it was 1 or 2 issues but overall a satisfying fun game then yes i agree. But there are so many complaints about literally every aspect of the game, tunneling, slugging, camping, gen speeds, hook timers, hatch, op killers, meta perks, maps. "tunneling is the most unfun thing in the game its happening every match". Things like this shows they are not having fun in the majority of matches but continue to play match after match year after year knowing its going to happen. its not a new game is nearly a decade old. At what point will people think "this isnt fun, time to play a different game"? Each to their own, i can only speak for myself and i would never intentionally give myself a bad time in the hope things change. i simply say what i think needs changing and if they dont change i stop playing. i spent years on this game because i enjoy it but the moment i stop enjoying it is the moment i up and leave. im not paid to test their game for them and endure weeks, months, years of awful gameplay for the devs to eventually get it right a decade down the line.
If people do still enjoy the game in spite of the issues then the issues cant be THAT bad. Not saying are not bad and the complaints are invalidated but they are not as bad as what some people claim them to be because they are still having fun at the end of the day.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003281#Comment_4003281
I'm saying everyone is going into this game with a whole different set of advantages and disadvantages. Every single thing you use to play the game is external. By your logic, everyone should have the same screen with the same setting, be on the same platform, using the same sound system, playing in the same environment. And there should absolutely not be crossplay, since KB&M has a huge advantage over controllers, even though crossplay is the whole reason multiplayer games are staying alive for such lengthy periods now. Just like being able to talk to friends keeps people playing survivor, even when they're unhappy with the experience. The ability to link to discord is now built into consoles. It's part of gaming as much as the expensive headset and the giant OLED screen.
Mods, on the other had, are explicitly against the rules and have been deemed unacceptable.
This implies that it is ok to gain an unfair advantage as long as it CAN be countered.
Sort of like tunneling to create a 3v1 at 5gens gives an unfair advantage but can be countered? But that's the one thing that's okay, somehow, because it's built into the mechanics, even though the devs are clearly trying to discourage it. That logic is that it's okay to exploit something until it's exploitablity has been removed.
there are plenty of stealth builds and stealth killers that are becoming harder and harder to play because of coms just like survivors cant use stealth as much due to aura read perks.
Your own example shows that the game is inherenetly balanced around different scenarios. Aura read is off the charts for killers while stealth has been nerfed. It helps me win many of my matches. Against SWF or not, I can still see them. It's likely become so big BECAUSE of SWF.
you keep comparing survivor gaining unfair advantage to tunneling but tunneling isnt using a separate program. tunneling uses the games on mechanics and is available to all players thats the key difference. if coms was built in to the game and available to all players then it would be the same thing as tunneling as both would be using in game mechanics to their advantage. but it would be to their advantage not an unfair advantage exclusively available to a specific sect of people playing.
obviously everything down to the mouse and monitor could possibly provide an advantage, some things cant be prevented like i said and have already agreed with you on that. But where we differ in opinion is that just because something cant be stopped (coms, external hardware or programs) that doesnt mean we shouldnt be doing what little we can to prevent it. cheating cant be stopped as is evident from the sheer number of cheaters that laugh at a ban then 5min later back with a new account. rightfully bhvr should do what little they can to reduce the numbers atleast. same should apply to coms OR make it so ALL players have the same option the best they can. bhvrs part is the software, the game, this is where they can make a difference and make things balanced the best they can.
How can you justify using external sources to gain an advantage but then in the same breath say mods and hacks is unacceptable? first your argument was that 1 can be countered and the other cant which i disproved by providing a perfect example of how both can be countered. now your saying its because its against the rules. To clarify i dont condone cheating of any kind which includes using coms imo.
survivors can use stealth perfectly fine because killers are reliant on perks to counter it which many killers use gen slow down perks. if aura read was basekit then fair enough but its not. while swf on coms can counter stealth builds without perks and without using basekit through 3rd party coms. i play stealth style killer and survivor and i can honestly say stealth survivor is way easier than playing stealth killer.
-
what have i said that would imply im toxic in any way? i think tunneling is needed in the games current state? survivors can counter it if they play well? my team mates are often potatoes? i advocate equality across solo and swf? i play by the rules of the game and dont insult anyone? i play seflishly in solo matches? i genuinely dont see a major issue with either side? where have i ever said anything remotly toxic? All i said is if people dont enjoy the game and they continue to play a game they dont enjoy thats on them which it is. no one is being forced to play the game and if your clinging on to the hope things will change then you could have a long wait which you could, but at the end of the day you choose to play the game, you choose to play survivor, you choose to play killer. i know i wouldnt play a game i dont like, if you want to play a game you dont like for whatever reason then your more than welcome to do so and more than welcome to complain about it. just dont expect people to take the complaints seriously because your not doing yourself any favours.
-
i agree not everyone is doing it for petty reasons, some people DC after going against ghoul 10 times in a row. But when people do DC or go next they often openly admit to the reasons why after the match and in my experience its usually a petty reason.
i understand having unfun things changed or removed but at some point people should accept the game for what it is. is it fun being on hook doing nothing hoping someone will free you? doubtful. is it fun to sit on a gen pressing a button now and then? many have openly said no. yet they still decide to play that role. with the amount of things people are asking to be changed because they are unfun, if all these changes were made it would no longer be dead by daylight. it would be a different game. thats where it starts getting silly where people play a game, not happy with it then expect the devs to make a different game.
someone can find chess unfun because of the different rules for different pieces. lets change it so all pieces have the same rules and can hop over other pieces so its more fun. i mean at that point just play checkers but dont complain that chess is unfun then expect the game to change.
the ptb didnt bring any changes so the game remains as it was before the ptb… like i said, voice your complaints, keep playing in the hope it will change but do so knowing that it may never change especially as there is no reason to change it. why change it when the player count is up? if you choose to keep playing a game you dont enjoy hoping it will change then you could be in for a long wait. personally, i wouldnt play something i didnt enjoy. i hate sport games, i wouldnt play Fifa for years complaining about all the unfun things hoping they will be changed to make the game fun for me.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
Hello,
Something I've noticed in post-game chat and also in Dead by Daylight discussions online is that players are very angry when the opposite side plays good and employs smart strategies. For instance I was playing deathslinger and I slugged pretty much the whole game because it was the best play. I was able to down all four at 1 gen remaining in a 3-gen setup barely turning the game around. If I went to hook someone, then decisive strike, endurance, we'll make it, and whatnot would all come into play and stop me from snowballing. Not to mention the time lost in trying to actually hook someone. So I slugged for a chance to win. But for some reason some players get mad at the PLAYER rather than the gameplay itself.
On top of that, people will say that the other person is unskilled because they had to 'resort' to such and such. I guess the assumption is that there's only one way to play the game: the basic 12-hook process.
If that was the case, why does the game have a hook countdown timer forcing the survivor to progress into death if they stay on a hook for too long. This means that you don't need to hook someone 3 times to actually kill them.
Why is there a dying state where the survivor is unable to do anything productive and can eventually die from.
Why is there a generator repair action that lets you escape the trial if you finish all of them (basically what does genrushing even mean?)
Why are there perks added specifically against such strategies?
If the gameplay was really constricted to ONLY 12-hook gameplay, it would be very very boring and many perks would have to be reworked.
It doesn't make sense. What would the player be expected to do, just continue playing like an NPC and hand over the win? I can't think of any other game where people get so mad at their opponents for playing smart and blame them as if they're guilty for playing within the rules. Generally, if a strategy exists that someone may not like, they would complain to the devs for change, adapt, or practice good sportsmanship and commend the opponents for playing well.
Basically I don't understand it when people say "I don't camp", "I try not to tunnel", "If killers will keep tunneling, then I will keep genrushing" (in other words: I will keep playing Dead by Daylight) or "cheese tactics". Most of these strats is literally just playing the game as allowed. In my opinion for something to qualify being called a "cheese", it has to be something really stupid like pre-2.7.0 legion with his moonwalk strat that literally required you to not chase a survivor by game standards, but in fact you were actually chasing them just looking at the floor. Now that's a cheese tactic, not changing strategies and prioritizing one player out of the game, or focusing on generators instead of healing against legion.
What do you think, why is the community like this? Is it due to lack of action by the devs or the game's unbalanced nature? Or do you think that these strats are indeed cheesy and shouldn't be a part of the game?
personally i believe optimal play is fine. but many people in many different games dont enjoy it because they claim it takes the fun easy going nature out of the game. i can understand that but at that point i think they are playing the wrong games.
Im constantly getting people saying "git good" "learn to play" or accusing me of toxic play because i used the most efficient way to achieve my goal. This happens when i play killer and survivor. i understand they are likely venting out of frustration which is why i can sort of look past their flawed logic of telling the winner of the match to learn to play when it should be the losing side that would need to learn to play.
some people think mind gaming shows skill or looping shows skill and if no skill is shown you dont deserve to win but both survivor and killer can win showing no skill. How? the answer is play smart which in my book is playing good. do what you need to do to pick up the win (within the rules of the games terms and conditions).
-
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002855#Comment_4002855
This might be labeled a false equivalency, but I think if we're going to show that, we should also show the ping for all 5 players and the Killer being played. Then maybe lock in any changes to loadout to counter balance that.
I would be fine that, many survivors use a Q program that tells them how long the est q time is and what killer they are going against anyway.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003292#Comment_4003292
i dont see survivors saying they are quitting in mass
Survivors players are largely resigned to feeling ignored. They don't generally come out and threaten to leave, or announce it, because they doesn't change anything for survivors. Survivors just stop playing quietly.
Killers do this all the time, because it works. This ptb is evidence that being loud and threatening to leave works for them.
bhvr loses a huge chunk of player base from killers quitting the game.
Any time in the past 3 years that the game has changed, survivors are told in condescending tones to "git gud" and just "adapt".
Then, when killers might have to actually consider making a change in their gameplay, they scream that they can't adapt.
you say survivors quietly quit but the player count seems pretty stable. it goes up and down in line with licence releases but generally the numbers are up from what they were a couple years ago. if they are quitting quietly its a drop in the ocean because player count hasnt been effected.
i mean people could adapt or quit if they cant. if i couldnt adapt i would definitely just stop playing as many killers would but survivors as a whole seem to not want to adapt or quit. its very strange.
fact is, the player count is up and the figures show it. my waiting times during peak times are pretty good for survivor and killer, i have no issues getting a match within 30 seconds to 1 win. off peak times can be a bit longer but thats to be expected.
My advice to anyone that isnt enjoying any game is voice your complaints and stop playing. if the company wants to get back the player base they will know what they need to do to get it from the complaints but simply complaining and then continue to play a game you dont enjoy is baffling to me. a week or month of tolerating issues in the hope they will improve is understandable but years of complaining and still playing? blows my mind
-
@MashedBroccoli said:
killers cried, it got delayed and now tunneling has sky rocketed. Bhvr should’ve released it as is and adjusted it over time. But nah survivor experience don’t matter. You’d think me saying this that I am a survivor main but I’m not. Just a 12 hook andy who the tunneling changes wouldn’t of affected and would’ve actually buffed. But nah I double lose out because killers can’t help but tunnel.
and during this time of slowly adjusting it so it becomes healthy which could take weeks, months or even years…bhvr loses a huge chunk of player base from killers quitting the game. It makes sense to retain the playerbase instead of killing the game. even now i dont see survivors saying they are quitting in mass, the odd few maybe but nowhere near as many as the killers were going to. survivors complain but they still play.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003166#Comment_4003166
Show me where I implied cheating was okay.
Its implied by your logic twice.
- "A giant, high definition TV is better than a Switch screen. Lots of PC killers use shaders, something many have no access it and gives an unfair advantage, but there isn't much anyone can do about it."
This implies that it is ok for someone to use something external to gain and advantage because there is nothing that can be done about it…. hacking also uses external things to gain an advantage. hackers are not always obvious in their cheats, some are subtle which doesnt give them immortality but does give them an unfair advantage but there is nothing that can be done about it. which bring me to the 2nd instance your logic implies cheating is ok….
2. "I've been in matches with cheaters. You can beat someone on comms. You can't beat a survivor who's flashlight blinding you through the floor or turbosoeeding through the map. They aren't remotely equivalent."
This implies that it is ok to gain an unfair advantage as long as it CAN be countered. So by your logic it is ok to use external sources like coms to gain and advantage because it CAN be beaten and a hacker could apply wall hacks…. the wall hacks doesnt make them invincible, they CAN be beaten. Just because it CAN be beaten doesnt make it right or acceptable.
You dont flat out condone cheating but your double standards have implied it.
you cant stop coms because how do you stop someone talking? with phones and personally being together, you cant so we just allow it in spite of the advantages it provides. using your own logic and arguments this could be applied to using hacks, you cant stop hackers so should we just allow it in spite of the advantages it provides? ofcourse not.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003043#Comment_4003043
Despite the high levels of I QUIT drama posting that went on when the patch was announced, most people are probably not going to quit killer. People with 5k hours on their main that have projected themselves onto them aren't going anywhere. You also have people who didn't tunnel to being with (me) and we were also getting basekit buffs in return, so a big rework was exactly what was planned.
Some need comms, particualrly the weaker links on a team. But people don't NEED comms to win. My ER was the same as a soloqer. I've been in matches as both killer and survivor that were absolutely 100% soloq and the team has blended perfectly. People like comms. If that social aspect went away, many would leave.
It's funny how Twins, the absolute least popular killer, is always the default go-to in this discussion. I haven't seen a Twins in 500 matches. They're not going to base the game around Twins. They need to rework Twins to make them appealing as it is.
You can die on the hill of comms = cheating if you want but it makes no sense. I've been in matches with cheaters. You can beat someone on comms. You can't beat a survivor who's flashlight blinding you through the floor or turbosoeeding through the map. They aren't remotely equivalent.
I beg to differ, i played this game for years and have like 3k hours, i 100% would quit the killer role completely if tunneling got removed like it would have done if the ptb changes went through. i was preparing myself with what games to change to and still am just incase it ever does happen and countless people in game and the forums felt that way too. the only way to be sure is let the changes go through and see for yourself. player count would drop and escape rate would go through the roof. not all killers would quit but not all survivors would quit if coms got banned. i wouldnt quit survivor if that happened.
Yes, some people need coms. like some killers need tunneling. people like coms, people like tunneling. when im killer it doesnt make a difference to me in terms of fun if im chasing someone fresh from the hook and has 2 hooks already or if im chasing a fully healed survivor, im still in the chase but tunneling get me in chase faster so i like to tunnel.
im not saying you can beat a cheater but that cheater can help others that are not cheating escape. But you seem to be implying that it is ok to cheat as long as its not overly cheating….like someone could use wall hacks to see the killer. does it mean they will be able to win every match? no. does it give them unfair advantage? absolutely. just because people can lose doesnt make it ok to have an unfair advantage no matter what way you try to slice it.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003136#Comment_4003136
I've said this before and I will continue to repeat it:
People have always had pretty reasons for doing dumb things. The "go next epidemic" is not because people have become more petty. It's a product of gameplay changes over time, and it's a general game health indicator.
When it got really bad, the devs listened to people like you, who said they should just punish and fix nothing. That's how we got launch crows being way overtuned and go next. Which, btw, go next will currently punish survivors for the killer tunneling hard.
i have had people DC over a map they dont like, a friend was killed so they wanted to join them in the next match, killer they dont like, someone else cleansed a totem they wanted. people use the abandon to skip 5 seconds of hook animation for god sake. people will do petty things if they are allowed to do so regardless of the health of the game. best thing to do is tell people, this is the game, play or dont its your choice but if you decide to play then play it. Everyone knows the flaws the game has, if people are not happy with it then just dont play.
-
it does help prevent people from quitting multiple times then when timer gets too long to wait, they play somthing else or go to sleep and play again the next day when they just DC again. Now if you DC in a fit of rage the night before, you get a little reminder of your actions by giving you your timeout when you next log on. to get 15min DC pen you need to DC a fair amount. i have DC a few times in 1 night for whatever reason and i have not even had a 60 second penalty.
-
i dont see an issue with myers…. my guess is probably skill issue or just not running the right perks or add ons. tombstone requires no hooks so blinds isnt an issue
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003057#Comment_4003057
I'm sure there are people that lean on them. I'm not one of them so I can't be sure, nor have i ever met anyone who desperately needed them. Good teams often have weaker, objective-focused links. These will benefit more from team info. But I'm assuming, just like you, a solo player, are also assuming. In my experience, they are wanted more than needed, and it's more about fun than strategy. That's how it's been on every team I've been on. I can't speak for top tier comp teams and bully squads.
The devs would have the data on win rates in regards to parties. If it was an issue, it'd be addressed. They could simply remove partying up if they wanted to.
exactly the same as tunneling, there are probably people than lean on tunneling and need it. if you apply this rule to coms you have to apply it to tunneling or it shows extreme double standards. people dont find tunneling fun, some killers dont find pre running fun because the team has coms. works both ways. it might be fun for survivors but it doesnt make if fun for the killer. just like tunneling isnt fun for the survivors
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003043#Comment_4003043
Despite the high levels of I QUIT drama posting that went on when the patch was announced, most people are probably not going to quit killer. People with 5k hours on their main that have projected themselves onto them aren't going anywhere. You also have people who didn't tunnel to being with (me) and we were also getting basekit buffs in return, so a big rework was exactly what was planned.
Some need comms, particualrly the weaker links on a team. But people don't NEED comms to win. My ER was the same as a soloqer. I've been in matches as both killer and survivor that were absolutely 100% soloq and the team has blended perfectly. People like comms. If that social aspect went away, many would leave.
It's funny how Twins, the absolute least popular killer, is always the default go-to in this discussion. I haven't seen a Twins in 500 matches. They're not going to base the game around Twins. They need to rework Twins to make them appealing as it is.
You can die on the hill of comms = cheating if you want but it makes no sense. I've been in matches with cheaters. You can beat someone on comms. You can't beat a survivor who's flashlight blinding you through the floor or turbosoeeding through the map. They aren't remotely equivalent.
"some need coms… But people dont need coms to win" you dont see the contradiction in that statement?
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003043#Comment_4003043
the game is built with that play style in mind.
The game at it's inception was a horror themed hide and seek game. They even marketed it as such.
And yet, here we are: 9 years later where killers have too many aura reading capabilities to reasonably counter play them all, and an "anti hiding" mechanic.
Live service games change, and players adapt or move on.
Regarding "SWF" though, since coordination is so overpowered, then what restrictions do you purpose to put on killers who play in pre mades in 2v8?
Because I can guarantee you defaulted to "no, that's not necessary" in your head and just about every objection you could leverage is why we shouldn't be punishing people for playing with friends.
True games do change, and if the devs want to take the game in the direction of coms then fine, give all players coms not just swf and balance around that. there are plenty of stealth builds and stealth killers that are becoming harder and harder to play because of coms just like survivors cant use stealth as much due to aura read perks.
As for 2 v 8, same applies, if coms are not built into the game they shouldnt be used….simple. No one, not killer or survivor should ever be able to use 3rd party apps to gain an advantage. i played 2 v 8 as solo killer and some team mates were awful and others were really good. i won some i lost some, no coms were needed. bhvr needs to decide, do they want everyone to have coms or not. This wishy washy view that some can but some cant isnt working.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003026#Comment_4003026
I'm saying the game has already been balanced around comms, intentionally or not, because they've been consistently present in the gameplay and would reflect in the numbers. For one, if all these teams couldnt talk, they'd likely stop playing. That's why the game would die. You'd have a mass exodus of survivor players. They'll go play something with open VC with their buddies. I probably would barely touch the role either anymore as I already mostly avoid solo.
You'd specifically be losing your high-skill upper MMR players. Without communication, they either leave or become worse. So ERs would go down and KRs would go up, and there is already a pretty drastic disparity between survivors having a great ER at 50% and killers having a great KR at 80+%.
The game would need a huge overhaul if discord poofed out of existence. There's a reason it's called "soloq hell." It wouldn't go well for the game if all survivor games became soloq hell.
That is exactly my point regarding tunneling and slugging. the game is built with that play style in mind. think twins. some killers are designed to tunnel and slug. But the response is always "its not fun" or "if you have to rely on tunneling then you should learn to play properly". That point, i respond with if you need coms to win then maybe learn to play the game properly isntead of using apps not built onto the game? Like you said, remove coms and people will stop playing just like many killers would if tunneling is removed. The difference is tunneling is available for all killers and players and uses only in game mechanics. coms is only available to people in swf and used 3rd party apps. Removing tunneling would mean an overhaul of the game thats why the ptb was delayed. simple number tweaks and slight adjustments wouldnt cut it.
There really is no difference between cheating and coms in my book. both require outside sources, both provide an advantage over the opposition, both cant be 100% stopped. im aware you avoid solo, it shows in your comments but it doesnt change the fact that there is an issue regarding the double standards that survivors have the means and its acceptable to use 3rd party apps to gain an advantage.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003017#Comment_4003017
Well they already are using them with shaders, so I guess I have to be okay with it.
Comparing discord to cheating is wild though. Games are built with with the knowledge of discord in mind. If discord suddenly disappeared, the game would likely die, and KRs would go through the roof.
But your own argument of "cant do anything about it" to justify using 3rd party apps to gain an advantage is flawed as i have just proven.
Your suggesting discord and the use of coms would impact kill rate? So your saying coms is NEEDED?
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002985#Comment_4002985
Experiences already vary wildly. That's just the way it is. Some players have advantages. A really good headset lets you hear more than basic speakers. A giant, high definition TV is better than a Switch screen. Lots of PC killers use shaders, something many have no access it and gives an unfair advantage, but there isn't much anyone can do about it.
There was talks about possibly banning shaders since bhvr introduced gamma setting for all players. Shaders being used for an advantage benefits survivors and killers and jas been a big talking talking point for a long time.
So if there isnt anything that anyone can do about it then you would be ok with some killers using 3rd party apps to gain an advantage while others cant? cheaters use 3rd party tools to gain an advantage, not much can be done about that as they just make a new account when they get banned, is that acceptable too?
-
@Munky said:
A good change would be to show in the lobby that you are versing a SWF. I think it's only fair since it requires a completely different mindset. Most killers won't dodge lobbies, cause they don't want to wait another 10mins just to play the lottery. That 'some' might do it sounds like a fair sacrifice to me. At least at this point we know beforehand that we are going to have to play more tactically with our meme build.
Even if its just 4 randoms that came together on discord, there is a massive shift in gameflow just for having communication like that. Gens are going to be very efficient and you generally never have to be afraid to get caught by stealth which indirectly adds to the efficiency of gens. This is why many matches are done in under 5 mins… I think its fair to say I speak for most killers when I say "We don't want to sit in a 10min Q just to get sent back to it in under 5mins"… Losing is not the problem here. The problem is getting no value out of our game time.
This should defiantly be a thing. Most games show in lobby who has a mic for example, dbd doesnt show that because its assumed no one has a mic as its not available in game. There should be atleast a heads up for the killer they are going against solo or swf. Survivors often say they want to see what killer they are going against when this is brought up, but the killer is always solo. Survivors also use 3rd party apps to know how long the q time is and what killer they are going against. i know this because i was solo survivor and said in prematch lobby "i hope its not ghoul again" someone said "nope its bubba". It was bubba and when asked how they knew they admitted to having an app that tells them. they claimed it isnt reportable which if coms are allowed then maybe they were right and its not reportable, i dont know.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002811#Comment_4002811
your not in a real swf with coms
So then what is a "real SWF" then? How does one identify it? Because that term gets thrown around a lot. Sometimes I'm on comms, sometimes I'm not, yet it reads in-game as a party either way.
But you are making my point for me. SWF takes many forms. That's why nerfs for parties are unfair. They're all different. The only way to balance for comms is to add open VC and that would be nightmarish.
As i have already explained SWF with coms is what im talking about being a real SWF. And i agree, you cant determine who has coms, whos using 3rd party apps, who is sitting in the same room playing together communicating. Thats exactly why i said "ideally" SWF should be nerfed somehow but acknowledging that is an impossible task and i even said "Its a complex issue, and one i truly believe will never be solved due to the nature of the game."
Thats why i personally feel the game can never and will never be balanced. I agree VC should be introduced to solo so solo have the option swf has, however the devs wont do that and if they did the whole game would need to be changed to take into account coms, all aura perks for example that would become redundant would need to be changed, killer powers like stealth killers would need a rework. It wouldnt be DBD anymore.
You still havnt answered my question, would you be ok with some killers using 3rd part apps to gain an advantage while other killers are denied this option? Same situation as solo and swf. some survivors can have coms but others cant. its the same thing.
-
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001415#Comment_4001415
That's all fine and dandy when there are no more cheaters. But we are not in that utopia today, and lets be honest. We never will be.
i agree but the topic was regarding cheaters. imo people that just quit because they dont like a map or because they suddenly changed their mind and want to play somthing else mid match is just as troublesome as cheaters. both ruin the match for everyone involved. like you said we not in that utopia today. without penalties people would quit every match and no one would be able to the game at all.
-
you might be hooked but its not all doom and gloom, there is light over that fog
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002791#Comment_4002791
You might not always use coms as swf but the vast majority do and even if they dont, they still more or less have a choice to use discord if they wish. thats something solo players dont have….choice
First, is that "vast majority" based on any real data or are you just assuming? And if there was data, would it say whether people are being tactical or just bsing on a call while playing?
Second, I don't have a choice most of the time. Half my friends are crossplay random adds. I have no way to even get their discord handles. If the game had an inbox, it would be different.
Third, you're making it sound like soloqers are sad victims. Literally just add people. Boom, now you have friends. I don't know a single one of the people I play with in real life. Of the ones I've even been able to communicate with, not one is even in the same country as me. SWF is just a couple friend requests away.
But if you want to make this argument, let's use you and I as a sample. Both of us have about 40% overall, yes? Yet I've plateaued there, and I haven't queued up solo in months. According to your previous posts, your stats are on the rise, with a 40%-50% ER monthly thanks to playing selfish. So the selfish soloqer is doing better than the altruistic SWF player. How does that help your argument?
pretty much every swf i have ever gone against as killer uses coms and its clear they use coms when they know im around the corner with no possible way of knowing as they dont have line of sight or aura reads. its very easy to spot swf on coms just by the types of plays they do.
You can call it "on a call while playing" but are you seriously telling me that this call where people can call out the killers location, hex totem locations, gen locations, negate all stealth builds and dont need aura reading perks because if 1 person knows something the whole swf team knows….your telling me that provides no tactical advantage at all? come on…
In your case, cross play random adds wouldnt be far off from soloq. you dont really know eachother and dont have coms. i would say thats solo play and that is how it should be, swf without the advantages. much like solo players going into a match find a ttv and watch their stream. they gain advantages regular players dont have. solo players with the advantages of swf communication. which is why its near enough to impossible to strictly nerf solo or swf and why i dont think the game will ever achieve true balance.
i dont see how being in the same or different country makes a difference, or knowing these people in real life or not. you seem to think if you add random people then boom your swf but thats not the case at all. all you have done is create a premade lobby of random solo players.
maybe the reason you have plateaued and mine is on the rise is because your not in a real swf with coms, you add random people and call it swf but your still playing solo but also play altruistic like swf which isnt effective because like you said your not always on coms and end up getting yourself killed. i play strictly solo but there are so many matches i would have won if i had the coms available like a simple call out where that noed totem is.
when i say swf needs nerfs i dont mean people that add randoms and then play a match as if its a solo match, im talking about people that start up the game already in a team together and hop on coms to gain an advantage by using something thats not built into the game. like i said would you be ok with certain killers gaining an advantage using 3rd party apps but other killers not having this option? by all means add random people add people you know or dont know but when when you start using 3rd party apps it changes the balance
-
@rvzrvzrvz said:
They should focus on fun DBD isn't that serious to begin with, take a hint about 2v8 popularity, the game needs fresh ideas… Let's say the biggest pain points are "tunneling" and "gen rushing", if you adress those the experience becomes more enjoyable for everyone
then you can worry about min-maxing balance, balance tweaks can always come later it's not that big of a deal… it's surprising how much the community fears any kind of change
from what i been hearing 2 v 8 really isnt popular. it has a good killer audience because its the only time 2 killers can play together and its handy for doing some tomes and challenges. but fun? everyone i talked to in game said they hated it and only playing it for the easy challenges. oni/legion combo over and over or wesker every match.
Like i said, tunneling and gen rush cant be addressed because of the huge imbalance between solo and swf. solo and swf need to be balanced first. swf have the coordination to gen rush to compete with tunneling that cant really be achieved in solo, killers often have tunnel to compete with gen speeds. solo1 takes the brunt of these issues more than anyone.
-
@stikyard said:
I once had an idea where you could que for solo quick play that would take 5 players and choose one of them randomly to be Killer. I think this would take a lot of the sweat out of the Killer role because you will often be facing someone who isn't primarily focused on Killer maining. Think of this as casual quick play for solos.
Killer mains could still que for Killer only role but you will be paired against SWF que. If a SWF has 3 players, one player can be grabbed from solo que. Think of this as more competitive mode.
The only issue with that is swf casual players that to want meme wont be happy being thrown into competitive matches v killer only q. generally i like the principle of the idea though, quick and casual solo and more serious swf. can even buff and nerf killers to fit whatever mode. maybe tunneling nerfs for solo and no rules v swf or somthing
-
@cogsturning said:
Buffing soloq is one thing, but nerfing SWF is absurd. There's no single SWF experience. I play SWF. Sometimes with one person. Sometimes two. Sometimes a full squad. Sometimes on comms, sometimes not. I have a 39% ER. SWF doesn't mean you're going to be coordinated. It often means you're going to be overly altruistic and die trying to save teammates. It's not an insatwin. Punishing people for having friends is crazy.
swf still offers tactical advantages that solo does not. even a 2 man swf means half the survivor team is atleast on the same page. no one should have a tactical advantage because they play with a friend or if they play solo while the killer has no option but play solo. you say punishing people for having friends is crazy but solo players are being punished for not having friends with lack of coms. no one saying punish people for having friends, but having friends isnt a free pass to use external 3rd part apps to tilt the balance of the game. What is absurd is that people can use external apps like discord and gain a tactical advantage. If swf want to keep this advantage it seems only fair to nerf them in other ways to even the balance. i never said swf is instant win but the game isnt built around coms thats why it isnt available to all players.
You might not always use coms as swf but the vast majority do and even if they dont, they still more or less have a choice to use discord if they wish. thats something solo players dont have….choice. can you imagine the drama if killers like nurse and blight were allowed to use 3rd party apps to gain an advantage but other killers like ghoul and unknown had this option removed? Thats essentially whats happening with solo and swf.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002705#Comment_4002705
The killer stats being deflated is very awkward to prove. I can only compare stats for one side of the game per rift. As in, I was only able to get my true escape rate, because I played zero killer games in that timeframe.
In order to show killer stats are deflated, I would need to screenshot my official stats, then record a game with an problematic scenario and prove it was recorded after the screenshot, then screenshot my official stats after they update, and prove that was the only game I played, and that it's counting the number of kills incorrectly.
I did this when the stat tracker was first released, but it was with screenshots that aren't really good evidence for anyone besides myself. And it didn't look like anyone cared, so I never redid the experiments.
i remember everyone having an issue with inaccurate hours played but that was later revealed to be hours active in a match not hours in game. i usually sit at around 80 to 90% kill rate with myers. i know im not getting higher than that so im not sure how the killer stats could possibly be less than the actual stat. im certainly not getting 95 to 100% kill rate. unless its only inaccurate for some people? for me it seems to add up anyway, both survivor and killer.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002672#Comment_4002672
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HCNLN3SW15TB/68-inflated.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7IWZC33SZ94G/51-actual.png
The above two screenshots were taken on the same day. One screenshot is my overall average survivor escape rate for the last 30 days. The other screenshot is my milestone quests.
The official dbd stat tracker had me at an overall 68.75% escape rate, but my actual in-games stats were 34 escapes in 66 games = 51% escape rate.
And yes, I get it that they aren't always counting the same things, but a 17% difference in escape rates, is absolutely ridiculous.
so there is evidence to suggest survivor discrepancy although it would depend on when the screenshots were taken. For example there could be an overlap between the start of the milestones and the 30 days…. if milestones started 20 days ago from the screenshot then the stats page would account for all the milestones and the previous days up to 30 days. Play 10 matches a day for 7 days would be 70 matches but there may be more matches taken into account the other weeks in the 30 days. assuming the stats and milestones are only accounting for the 66 matches in a 30 day period, is there evidence to suggest killer stats are deflated?
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
Here are some anti-camping/tunneling/slugging ideas that are actually reasonable:
Anti-tunneling idea: Survivors lose collision for 10 seconds after being unhooked
Anti-tunneling explanation: The most obnoxious tunneling is stuff like a survivor being unhooked in a basement, and the killer immediately trying to bodyblock them in the shack stairs, until the basekit endurance wears off. This change actually allows the unhooked survivor to get far away from the hook.
Anti-camping idea: All survivors see the anti-facecamp bar progress
Anti-camping explanation: Many survivors have asked for basekit Kindred, and this is basically basekit kindred, but without the killer aura reading. This would allow all survivors to know if the killer is near a hooked survivor.
Anti-slugging idea: If only 2 survivors are alive, a survivor can abandon the game if they get slugged.
Anti-slugging explanation: The frustrating part of being slugged for the 4k is watching yourself bleed out even though the game is pretty much already over. This would allow the slugged survivor to abandon the game so they aren’t stuck watching themselves bleed out.
the game isnt over for the slugged survivor. if there are 2 left then the other team mate can heal them. Or they can open the gate so the slug can crawl out. the killer will have to pick up or watch them escape.
anti camp wouldnt be useful because many killers know how to proxi camp without triggering the anti face camp, especially range killers like huntress or speed killers like blight.
anti tunnel might work but killers already chase the unhooked survivor and count to 10 when not in the basement. losing collision helps with specific situations like basement or narrow spaces but i wouldnt say its effective in general as an anti tunnel
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002644#Comment_4002644
Yes. The survivor escape rates are sometimes inflated, and the killer kill rates are sometimes deflated.
And it’s sad, because I waited so long for an official stat tracker, but it has never worked correctly.
is there evidence of this discrepancy? not saying your lying or anything but you have to see how that could be perceived as survivor bias claiming their stats are higher than they actually are but the killers stats are lower than they actually are to fit their argument that killers are op and survivors cant escape.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002633#Comment_4002633
The official stats tracker still isn’t calculating escape rates correctly, and they can easily be 10% to 15% higher than what a person’s actual escape rate is.
it seems pretty accurate to me, i escape more than i dont which means i have over 50% escape rate. it would work the other way round too. killers with 60% kill rate could be getting 10% to 15% higher than what the actual kill rate is. Obviously stats tracker isnt 100% fool proof, there are times where the killer quits or lets people escape, or survivors go next or dc or even cheaters impact the match for everyone. But as a general basis, my escape rate and kill rates seem to add up correctly based on the outcomes of the matches. As killer i get 3k or 4k pretty often and it reflects in my kill rate. As survivor i escape more than i dont which reflects in my escape rate.
-
@Blaconia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002265#Comment_4002265
Communicating perks in the pre match lobby has always felt mediocre at best. Half the survivors are probably alt-tabbed and the rest are going to immediately forget what someone said. This is why just being able to see your teammates' perks would eliminate this issue.
Better Together points to a whole 'nother issue with the game: generator aura perks are completely overloaded, making it harder for solo (and even swf) survs to understand what's going on. It's not really an issue as killer, but if I see a yellow gen as survivor it could be anything from Wiretap/Blast Mine to Troubleshooter, Lucky Star or even Trail of Torment. I'm never going to assume a yellow gen means Better Together. And then perks with other gen colours like Deja Vu/Rookie Spirit will block/be blocked by other colours based on whatever highlights first.
I do think Better Together should show your aura, not the generator's, like the Guide class in the first 2v8.
Thats part of the problem, half the survivors probably alt-tab instead of making use of what little benefits they do have. understandable that yellow gen could mean anything really which is why i specifically would say running better together so they know yellow gen means im on it, dont bring the killer to me. i agree survivors should be able to see eachothers perks but i dont think it would do anything because people that go in solo often just dont try or even want to work as a team. like the people that run no perks at all or the meme players. you just know they would look at my perks and think "ok cool" then think nothing more about it. As much as solo could be buffed by offering what swf have like knowledge of perks it will never equal swf due to the players.
Also you just know people would lobby dodge if they see someone with meme builds or going for adept.
-
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002392#Comment_4002392
Well, the stats do keep track of our stats since, what, 2020? And there's been an uptick in tunneling recently, especially since the last dev update announcing the tunneling/slugging reduction system. That's most likely what these players are referring to. Their 40% escape rate likely happened before this new tunneling wave.
there is also a 30 day stats section, thats why i showed mine as 53% over the past 75 matches (the past 30 days). This might give a more accurate reflection.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002386#Comment_4002386
I have a 40% as well, playing the way I do, regularly dying for strangers and always going for the save. People leave me behind sometimes, sure, but I'm not going to change because of other people's actions or to inflate some pointless stats. I approach killer the same way, by treating the team as individuals. They're not bots and I won't view them as such.
I've seen quite a lot of people with high ERs defending tunneling and slugging and its starting to make sense. If you view your teammates as "tools" then it makes sense to not care about opponenemts frustrations either when playing killer.
thats pvp, we all play our own way.
this is part of description on steam. it even tells you, play as a team OR be selfish. you might not agree with it but i wouldnt say its toxic or anything like that play for myself. Thats one of the only good things about survivor, there is choice in how its played.
-
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002388#Comment_4002388
No offence but I thought there was many uses of tombstone to get this high kill rate because sadly mayers is very weak and addon dependent killer who has few options to stand chance against decent survivors.
it is true, myers has no speed, no anti loop. hes generally a bad killer. thats why tombstone and scratch mirror were the only things that made him viable. playwith your food, tinkerer, corruption and lethal…these perks and tombstone piece is deadly.
-
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002377#Comment_4002377
The fact that you don't get tunneled every match means nothing. Same with me. I don't get tunneled often either, but when I do get tunneled, I know it's a guaranteed death for me, no matter how hard I fight it or how much the teammates try to help. But just because I don't get tunneled often doesn't mean that those who claim they're getting tunneled every single game are lying. Their experiences are just that much different from ours.
the people that claim it happens every night and claim like you, its a guaranteed death but also have escape rate of 40% doesnt make sense. its a contradiction, always happening, always dying but escaping 40% of the time? im not saying everyone that says its happening every match is lying, it might very well be and they might very well be dying every match. but if thats the case they wouldnt have 40% escape rate. you cant say you always die and its happening every match and still escape.
Thats why i said the people that have escape rates below 40% have more validity in that argument of tunneling being unstoppable than people that claim this is the case and yet still escaping. either it is counterable, it doesnt happen every match or they dont have 40% escape rate.
-
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002306#Comment_4002306
Nice stats, but Im just wondering how often you used tombstone or do you run purple hair more?
i used to run mix of tomstone builds or scratch mirror builds. since scratch mirror got nerfed to the ground i went tombstone all the way.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002377#Comment_4002377
So is it that tunneling isn't happening that much in your matches, or is it that it benefits you because everyone else takes the heat?
And maybe your teammates won't risk themselves for you because you don't do it for them. People have saved me plenty in soloq because I spend the match trekking to people who need to be healed, taking protection hits, and taking aggro when I have less hooks. And I've traded and died for strangers at end game many, many times. Selfishness isn't a universal trait. But if someone has been hiding and using their team as shields all match, I sure will leave them behind.
You say it's not toxic, but I'd argue there's nothing in this game—including tunneling, slugging, and BMing—worse than a rat. I'll take a scummy killer over a selfish teammate any day.
tunneling happens, i have been tunneled myself. sometimes it takes team effort to counter. sometimes i can counter it on my own by looping long enough. sometimes my team mates or myself misplay and generally play badly. its a mix bag of win and lose, depends on the match.
as for helping others, like i say i spend the match helping them because they tools for me. i use them to help me get the gens done which benefits the team as whole. like they use me to get gens done. but when all is done and i no longer need them for my escape im out. just like many many people have done to me. i learn from experience. too many leave me on hook to die after i spent all match saving them and taking hits for them. i saw a pattern, these people ended up escaping and i ended up dying. so i changed my playstyle and now im the one walking out the gates when possible. the result was i went from about 30% escape rate overall, now im 40% overall with every month getting between 40 and 50% escape rate so my overall is slowly going up. thats soloq for you, players can play as a team (goodluck with that in soloq) or play selfishly.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002368#Comment_4002368
But tunneling doesn't happen in every match. The 40% might be sustained by when it doesn't happen. The whole idea of the ptb was to meet in the middle. If you tunnel, you're punished. Those players might see a drop in their KRs. If you don't tunnel, you're rewarded and might see a boost. Changes were meant to bring increased interactivity, better sportsmanship, and less misery, while keeping the stats in range.
And if that presumed hatch rat with a high rate wasn't tunneled or slugged, it doesn't mean there wasn't any in the match. People who rat are the less likely to be tunneled or slugged because they're hiding and everyone else is taking the pressure that they aren't. Rats not taking aggro are part of the problem, hence the basekit BBQ idea.
And yeah, the stats only show numbers and not enjoyment. That's literally the problem of relying on stats alone.
And sure they're not 100%, particularly for bad players. If you're bad and decide to tunnel the best looper in the game you just autolost. But if you're decent, it's pretty hard to counter.
except there are countless threads and comments saying "tunneling happening every match" "slugging and tunneling all night" this doesnt add up with the numbers when so many people claim its guaranteed win for the killer. thats pretty much all im saying.
personally, for me, i do gens and play stealth. i might be considered a rat for not taking chase but when no one else does gens i pretty much have to do them or they dont get done. being in soloq, i have learnt my team mates wont risk themselves for me so when those gates open….im outa there, i dont hang around and t bag to killer or play hero. solo player…im looking out for number 1. i do what i can for team play to get the gens done but when gens are done you guys are on your own lol. this is what gets me my escape rate. playing this way is fun, not toxic and works. no issues
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002346#Comment_4002346
"If you play perfectly you can break even" isn't a huge point in favor of this being a good thing.
And while I agree that statistics didn't really capture (subjective) "fun", if you have a have where winning constantly sucks, then you're probably having even less of a great time of the system is designed for you to lose.
its not a case of play perfectly and break even, im not playing perfectly by any means and im stuck with poor team mates and people that go next or dont do gens and i also make mistakes. and i m still getting over 50% escape rate at the moment. can you imagine how much better that would be in an swf with coms? im winning and losing, im going v slugging and tunneling killers. Currently im enjoying survivor, because its way more chilled than killer role for me. the only thing i dont like is the awful team mates i get which can ruin the fun. but if it got too much i wouldnt play survivor…not because of tunneling or slugging but because of the role as a whole. bad team mates and generally bad core gameplay sitting on a gen or sitting on a hook. Thats the unfun aspect for me regardless of win or lose
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002346#Comment_4002346
So if everyone has a 40% ER and a 60% KR—even if the experience is miserable—they have no arguments? That means almost no one here should be complaining about anything and there are no issues at all, because I've seen very few people in the forum below those numbers.
And what do stats tell you about what's happening in a match or how good someone is? That's the issue. You can have a 70% KR with minimal skill because all you do is tunnel and never learn anything else, and you could have a 50% ER while being a useless hatch rat who throws their team under the bus. These numbers alone don't reveal the issues in the game. They wouldn't be trying to address things if that were the case.
not sure where your getting that from… i said they have no argument to say that tunneling and slugging cant be countered because the stats show otherwise. i repeat, the stats show not if the match was fun or not but if they escaped or not. if they escaped then tunneling and slugging cant be that effective because they are still escaping. Fun aspect is a different matter. are they having fun? maybe not but its not fun being on a hook or sitting on a gen? should we change them so they are fun? going in circles around a pallet isnt fun, should we change that so it is fun?
if i said i dont like going in circles looping, people would say to me" dont play dbd then, thats the point to the game" and they have said this many times. no its not. looping is a method for survival like tunneling is a method for killing. fun aspect of both is subjective. maybe being a stealth rat is more fun than going in circles? But like i said the fun element is a whole different discussion to be had. the point i was making was in reference to the people that claim tunneling and slugging are unstoppable easy wins that cant be countered then say they have 40% escape rate…. both cant be true.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002328#Comment_4002328
Aside from the fact that having a 40% ER doesn't equal having a good time, if you've been playing a long time and have a good grip on the game, you shouldn't be satisfied with the average rate, especially if you're losing to players who are worse than you but resorted to cheese tactics to beat a better player. The whole point is to excel, not be average forever. If killers can get 70%+ KRS, survivors should be able to get 50% ERs, at least, if they've made the effort to become skilled.
and they can get 50% escape rate….
soloq, awful team mates, gen build.
escape rate and kill rate might no equate to "fun" but as i have pointed out the escape rate being 40% isnt a defence for having fun or not it is a defence for the people saying it cant be countered….it can and has been countered as shown in the escape rate.
fun is subjective and people might not think being tunneled or slugged is fun just like they think being on hook or doing gens isnt fun. these are aspects of the survivor role. fun or not, its part of the game we choose to play.
can killers win v survivors that are better than them because they used cheese tactics? possibly, thats another discussion. can survivors win against killers better than them? possibly. i mean i can sit on gens and not get into chase and if other team members loop the killer long enough i can escape even if the killer would down me in 5 seconds if they chased me. or i could not do gens at all and escape via hatch. the point is both sides can "win" without showing skill to beat a better player.
-
@Tenac said:
So I know this would take a lot of effort but more game modes where it is not just fixing gens would be kind of cool. I think it would be kind of cool if there was a mode where survivors are trying to find objects for a ritual that would banish the killer. Make it a little more even and might reduce some of the toxicity where a survivor feels mad because they are always the victim.
Also a "just for fun" separate queue where people just want to run around and play around.
i think it would be good if the items had to be carried by walking not running which is what i thought would be the case with the blood gens and filling blood canisters. but it worked out better to just run with the canister. make it a more stealthy game mode, maybe only allow stealth killers instead of blights and nurses? id play that
-
yep i have noticed in a lot of maps, specifically the out door maps have pretty much the same loops/jungle gyms. slightly different look like there might be a bush in the way on 1 map and a rock or wall in the way on another but the general layout of the loop is usually the same. theres a few "special loops" thats exclusive to certain maps like rpd has the big one in the middle but most have the same T shaped or L shaped loops. Most maps have the shack too and it can be repetitive dealing with a reskin of the same stuff over and over. in door maps seem to have more unique loops and generally better layout than the wide open plan out door maps with the odd jungle gym blotted about but indoor maps are few and far between.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002292#Comment_4002292
Except tunnelling and slugging are marked as gameplay issues. They are problems because they ruin the fun of the game.
Genrushing is marked as a balance issue. It is marked as a problem because it supposedly cripples killer winrates.
A high kill rate can be evidence of genrushing not being a problem.
A high escape rate cannot be evidence of tunnelling being 'fun, actually'.
the way i see it gun rushing and tunneling goes hand in hand. killers tunnel to get kills faster than gens can be done. people gen rush to get gens faster than the killer can kill. when both at the peak the match is over in like 4 or 5 min. fun? im not sure, but it is the core gameplay in its basic form.
both issues being fun or not is a better argument than what i see most people say time and time again. "tunneling cant be countered, low skill easy kills" That argument should be thrown out entirely if they have 40% escape rate. As for the fun element, is being on the hook fun? is sitting on a gen fun? personally i would say no but it is part of survivor gameplay.
As i have said before, soloq that dont do gens and meme all match isnt an issue for the killer, they can spread hooks. an swf team that knocks out gens like no tomorrow? killers often cant afford to spread hooks so they tunnel. recently had a match that lasted like 8 min, which isnt the fastest by far. But if you divide 12 hooks by 8min it works out roughly 40 seconds per chase… including time it takes to hook and time it takes to walk and find survivors. swf teams know if the killer is chasing 1 survivor 3 others can do gens, drop chase to get 1 off a gen and maintain pressure and the one you dropped chase hops on a gen. this is where tunneling is needed imo. not for solo players but for the swf swat teams which appear in the high mmr. if its balanced for killer v solo then swf will dominate. if its balanced for swf then solo players suffer.
-
@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002306#Comment_4002306
Where do I get that stats for me? And even if you are that good, it's not about top killer, but what about the fun of average killer? It's always abotu "the fun of average survivors". Btw… I consider myself an about average killer, but I never had real stats for that, that's why I ask, where you got them from.
i think thats the link to get stats from 2020 onwards. i wouldnt say im a top killer by far and im worse survivor. i just put a lot of time into both roles and learnt the counter play from both perspectives.
-
@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002296#Comment_4002296
Who are those people with 80%+ kill rates and where do you get those number from?
Sounds unrealistic for me.
to prove im unbiased i feel compelled to say… i have 80% kill rate with myers…however i dont complain about gen speeds when i play myers.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002292#Comment_4002292
People with 80%+ kill rates complain about gen rushing.
Are you really going to try and claim that because the devs are hitting their arbitrary statistics goals on average that the game is somehow perfect for everyone?
C'mon now.
no it works both ways, people that get 80% kill rate shouldnt complain about gen rushing, they are getting kills faster than gens can be done so have nothing to complain about. Likewise survivors that get 40% or more escape rate have nothing to complain about. If anything they should be complaining about the devs target goal of 40% if they are not happy with it. Like i said, do people have escape rates that reflect there being an issue? i dont mean on average across the whole survivor player base im talking about their own personal escape rate. mine for example is 52% out of 75 matches so far this month. i suspect a huge majority of people that are complaining about there being an issue have 40% escape or more which invalidates their complaint. the people that struggle to get this escape rate might have more validity in their arguments but judging from the stats i think most people are hitting that 40%
-
to all those that complain about tunneling and slugging… do you have escape rates that reflect it being an issue? if it is as common and can cant be countered as what people say, this would reflect in your own escape rate. Bare in mind the devs aim for 40% escape rate.