runningguy
runningguy
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@rydiafan said:
How often are you being picked up multiple times in a match? Why do you think this makes solo queue worse?
I can think of twice when I would have been able to use this, and both times the killer was slugging for the 4K and when they were away the other survivor would come stand me up and then run and hide again. The killer would come back, knock me down, and go looking for the other survivor again.
This is going to come up borderline never, and there's no reason to panic about it.
how often to you think killers are going to slug now they know they dont need to slug the whole team to get them to turn into easy bot opponents? only need to slug 1 person twice…..bot. repeat….bot. killer picks up easy 4k by killing bots.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004527#Comment_4004527
Playing against bots is boring and they cheat because they know where the killer is at all time.
No mind-games, only boring brute-force chases.
bots are easy and imo more fun if not then equal fun as real people. bots dont avoid gens and hide for up to an hour like people do. even as survivor i often find bots play better than my team mates that are doing everything they can to avoid gens.
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i said it before and will say again, these abandon options are getting out of hand. survivors can abandon over anything like they could go next over anything. Is the new meta for killers to down people and make them abandon so they can pick up the win v easy bots? i know what im going to be doing as killer lol
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@Abbzy said:
Nothing unusual just got rpd two times maybe devs believe in second chanches or what.
they seem to be breaking the game with each update. fix 1 issue but introduce 3 more in the process. im dreading the next chapter…
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yet another match i just had…. v onryo. 1 survivor slugged, 1 in chase, 1 hooked and me on a gen. i unhooked, healed then we both got on a gen. why did neither of us help the slug? answer is, they were down for ages and they didnt bother to press heal button to make it easier for the team to help them. if they wont help themselves they can complain when others dont help them. slugging isnt a problem, its the players that are the problem. im seeing time and time again slugs making no effort to heal or move to a safe location.
earlier i had expo and the same thing happened, they didnt bother to get themselves up they just lay there like a dead fish and then shout at me for not healing them lol. madness.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004284#Comment_4004284
They introduced Entity Blocking and Bloodlust because it was 2016-2017 era DBD.
You know, when maps had 30+ pallets and true infinites. I am pleased to say you'll find none of those in modern DBD, and if you think you have, it is probably a skill issue, unfortunately.
loops and pallets havnt changed that much over the years. shack in particular hasnt changed at all. look up god loops badham map, you will find only recently that god loop was reverted. why? because it was an infinate loop that survivors can circle forever and never be caught due to chase not triggering. god loops have all but vanished now….coincidence that god loops stopped when bloodlust have vault blocking came into play? unlikely because loop patterns and been pretty much the same and in fact getting more pallets in next update. i guarantee, remove vault blocking and bloodlust and survivors will loop forever on select loops v select killers.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004279#Comment_4004279
There's what, shack? Having a single god loop isnt an issue. Break the pallet, now its fine. You shouldn't be able to catch people everywhere, no matter what. Not every Killer should be Ghoul.
have to force the pallet to drop first, lots of maps have a shack and if 1 loop can be a god loop that it breaks the game. there is a reason why bloodlust and vault blocking was introduced. cant honestly say 1 god loop isnt an issue. survivors shouldnt be able to hide or run to the shack or wherever this 1 god loop is and be safe for unlimited amount of time which was the case before they introduced bloodlust and vault blocking. now its not so bad because these mechanics have pretty much removed all god loops, now there are strong loops but not god loops. but removing these bloodlust and vault blocking mechanics creates god loops which myers and other killers that dont have powers to counter looping simply wouldnt be able to do anything about.
badham for example, had a new window in the upstairs of a house to stop people from being body blocked in the small gap by the gen. the result was a god loop that survivors could run indefinitely, never triggering chase. this was pretty recent and was also changed back pretty quickly because having this god loop broke the map.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004268#Comment_4004268
Stealth isnt about the loop, it's about the approach.
Taking two health states is absolutely anti loop. You now only need to win once instead of twice, possibly more. It ends the chase prematurely.
yes but my point regarding god loops is that without bloodlust or vault blocking then some killers cant catch the survivor because they dont have the speed or anti loop. which is why bloodlust and vault blocking became a thing. taking 2 health states involves the killer being able to catch the survivor at the loop, it doesnt stop the loop which is what anti loops do.
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im toxic because i play to win and have fun doing so? i dont hump on the ground or tbag at the gates. quite the opposite really, i kill asap and dont delay. when gates are open i dont sit and tbag like most do, i escape asap without delay.
just played a match, i brought expo so people could get themselves up when the killer slugs… what did my team mates do? they didnt even bother to press the heal button and expected me to come along and heal them when killer was chasing another survivor. then they complain that i didnt help them up and i stayed on a gen (me being the only one doing gens). this is exactly why i play the way i do, i cant rely on random people to play how i think they should play. im supposed to think "is my team mate having fun?" seriously? result is once again they 3k and i escape.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004259#Comment_4004259
Stealth and the ability to instantly take two health states instead of one. Non-traditional anti-loop.
You can hear Wesker coming from a mile away, not so much with Myers of GhostFace. It isn't really hard to get value out of their stealth either, just need to play slightly more cerebral than you might with another Killer.
stealth maybe…depending on the loop. pointless having stealth if they can see me over the top of a wall or through the cracks in the walls at the shack. taking 2 health states i wouldnt say is an anti loop as you need to catch the survivors to be able to use this ability so its for use after the loop not to counter the loop.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004249#Comment_4004249
Can't speak for Houndmaster, as I have never and likely will never play her, but the rest all of anti-loop. It just isn't traditional anti-loop.
what anti loop does myers have or ghost face?
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004239#Comment_4004239
no it isn’t. The best way to play the game is to not make the game miserable for your team. There is more to this game than winning, wish more people understood that.
we each have out own way of playing the game. if you want to play as a team just play swf. i play solo and have people treat me the same as i treat them, leave me on hook and just escape. doesnt ruin my fun. people should start taking ownership of their own fun and stop relying on others to provide it for them.
- killer ruins my fun by slugging and tunneling
- survivor ruins my fun by not doing gens
- survivor ruins my fun because they escaped early for adept
- survivor ruined my fun because they wanted to meme instead of win
- survivor ruined my fun because they wanted to win instead of meme
- survivor ruined my fun because they wouldnt save me
- survivor ruined my fun by tbagging
- killer ruined my fun by humping the ground
At some point you need to stop blaming others for your lack of fun, not everyone wants what you want and not everyone will play how you want them to. thats why swf is probably best for people that want like minded team players. but dont expect random solo players to play how you want them to in order to make your games fun, just not going to happen
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@joeyspeehole said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004015#Comment_4004015
As far as god loops are concerned many killers, like the unknown, can disregard loops.
some killers can yes, but other killers cant. these are the killers im refering to, with no speed and no anti loop like myers, pig, death slinger, trickster, ghostface, houndmaster. these killers cant catch survivors at certain loops without bloodlust, vault blocking or major misplay by survivors.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004232#Comment_4004232
just because it’s allowed doesn’t make it right. I hope we never meet again in the fog. No man left behind thunder gun!
i agree but it is what it is. untill soloq get what swf gets, i find the best way to win in soloq for me in play selfishly. give me a way to work with the team like swf can and sure i will be a team player but until then im solo player and will play accordingly.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004223#Comment_4004223
You sound like a really fun teammate
i play dbd for my fun and i have fun. like i said, want to play as a team and all be on the same page…swf on coms is probably best. besides my point was survivors do have a free escape button… hatch….just to bring it back to the point at hand.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004223#Comment_4004223
let me guess be looped the killer all match while you stayed safe and then refused to even try to save him. Crap like that happens to me often. SoloQ is all I play, selfish teammates like you ruin the game worse than any tunneling killer could.
like it or not selfish play is encouraged. while solo remains to lack the coms that swf have, solo play requires a different playstyle to win.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004215#Comment_4004215
So anyway team loses, do survivors have anything that gaurentees a three out?
im not talking about 3man out, if you want to play as a team and get everyone out you best play swf with coms. solo play is best played exactly that solo. result is my team might lose but I escape and win. just not had a match v freddy that struggled to get a single hook all match, 1 guy was downed at the end…am i going to risk myself to save him? hell no. result of the match was 1k 3 escape. he was not a happy bunny lol
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004058#Comment_4004058
Yeah let me just cause the rest of my team to lose while I rat in a corner.
you have that choice… thats my point. if you choose to help your team mates and risk yourself in the process thats your choice. if you choose to play for yourself, you have that choice
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004198#Comment_4004198
Okay, but now you're just relitigating the case with me, I was just pointing out an issue with your argument, that's all.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004199#Comment_4004199
Hooks have been rebalanced over time, though, since they were extremely exploitable too, and slugging circumvents all of that, so there's a good reason hooks aren't as disliked. Plus, hooks are part of the intended gameplay loop, which slugging isn't, which I wager does play part in public perception.
theres pros and cons to both slugging and hooks. slugging circumvents hook stuff like perks and basekit endurance but the pro side is the slug can move and they require the killer to camp them for 4min instead of 140sec.
regardless of hooks being part of the gameplay loop, the fact remains the same, hooks remove the players from participating in the match the same if not more so than being slugged but hooking is deemed acceptable. if the criteria for making this acceptable is to be part of the gameplay then make slugging part of the gameplay? saying its part of the gameplay loop to justify a boring mechanic the removes players from playing the match but then demonize an identical mechanic that does the same thing because its not considered part of the gameplay loop doesnt make sense to me.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004181#Comment_4004181
But it wasn’t a small chance.
That's not what you were saying in the post I replied to.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004183#Comment_4004183
Technically, yes, though I'd never thought about it like that. Hooks don't last as long though, fortunately, and they're a critical part of the gameplay flow.
This has been the way I have seen if for a long time which is why I struggle to understand why such hate towards slugging but nothing towards being hooked. hook timer is about 70sec per phase I think? that's 140sec on hook in total if no one frees me. If slug timer is too long just set it so its 140 sec same as hooks? it still means hooks are better because 3 hooks and the survivor is eliminated but doesn't mean 3 downs and they are eliminated.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004146#Comment_4004146
A slugged survivor generally has nothing to play for, so giving them a chance, even if it's a slim one, will make a large difference for the player experience.
does this apply to hooks too? a hooked survivor generally has nothing to play for. atleast a slug can crawl to the hatch or out the gates, that more to play for than being stuck on a hook hoping someone unhooks you.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004147#Comment_4004147
Isn't the new one easier because you can mori on the floor or standing up? By just having them death hook and you being t3?
i was thinking this too. maybe getting 4k isnt easy with rework myers…im not sure.
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some point last year i came across a bully head on squad on hawkins, they had no intention of doing gens. i spend some time trying to play around it and mind game it but in the end i thought to myself "why am i entertaining them? they are not doing gens…." so i ignored them and waited by the closest 3 gens away from lockers. figured 1 of 2 things would happen, either the bully squad stops and works on gens where i can catch them or they remain in lockers for 1 hour until server ends. it took them 30min of trying to get my attention before they dc lol
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@Rickprado said:
Thats why i believe we should add some basekit info for SoloQ (like Kindred) and other stuff like this and balance the game accordingly. Nerfing Swf would make the game worse - imagine being punished for playing with your friends? It won't happen.
true basekit kindred would be a step in the right direction but it still wouldnt come to close to closing the gap between solo and swf. kindred doesnt show the team where that hex totem is that you saw during a chase. for solo to equal swf, soloq needs full aura read of the killer and survivors pretty much at all times (which is pretty much the case v 4man swf), any totem seen by the survivor needs to be revealed to all other survivors, any gen a survivor comes across needs to be shown to all survivors, all perks shown to all survivors. all this aura read would no doubt make things unbearable on the screen but its exactly what swf on coms get without cluttering the screen with auras.
Without excessive aura reading or coms to provide that info there will always be a large gap between solo and swf. If this is by design then people cant be surprised when players like me play selfishly and leave others on the hook while i run out the gates the first chance i get because swf and solo require different playstyles.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004022#Comment_4004022
I understand if the killer is not leaving them but the moment you pop that gen they know exactly where you are. Now if it's the last gen and you are betting on the adrenaline play, sure, I just hope it's not with multiple gens to go.
it depends on the situation, there isnt 1 singular rule i go by, i adapt to the current situation. Im usually pretty good with stealth, so many killers use gen slow down perks that they often dont use aura read perks. generally i weigh up the current situation and try to determine my best chance of escape…. doing gens, waiting for survivors to spread out to heal one of them, unhooking, running over to shack to catch the hatch that will be spawning the second that survivor bleeds out, whatever the current situation calls for.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004039#Comment_4004039
Damn, someone actually saying keys are good now. Heard it here first guys. Keys are just as strong as tunneling. That must be why everyone brings keys.
yep works for me, out of about 25 matches tonight about 15 have been hatch escapes while others have been a mix of gate escapes and sacrificed. you should try it. easy win
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004027#Comment_4004027
The easy way out that killers almost always find first?
you can bring an offering to spawn the hatch by the shack so you know exactly where it will spawn…. you can bring a key to open it after killer has closed it. come on, dont give lousy excuses like that. like i said i been using it all night with minimal issues and hardly no effort at all.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003984#Comment_4003984
Oh so we should just make hatch spawn instantly so if the survivors just feel like it all four of them can just bail too?
bit extreme, thats like saying the killer should get auto kills as soon as the match starts lol. not really sure how you jumped to such an extreme there as no one has said killer should get that. fact remains survivors do have an easy way out that bypasses the main objective of gens and gate….called hatch. i know it exists, i been using it all night.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004019#Comment_4004019
I hope you are not doing gens when three of your teammates are slugged.
damn right i am if they are close together, as a result i end up escaping. if slugs want to spread out then im more likely to help one that isnt by the killer. nothing wrong with that.
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@Mr_K said:
With the recent changes tested during the PTB I would like to suggest an alternative to the anti-slug system.
The PTB version while making slugging a short term inconvenience removed the legit reasons why it's done.
- Survivor down at a pallet with known survivor in the area.
- Survivor down in the open with a known flashlight survivor.
- Survivor down but another objective is taking priority.
The first two instances are outside the killer's control with the third requiring a choice between getting a hook vs losing a gen. While 90 seconds in this situation may be rare it does add up and purposefully so in many SWF matches. We see this today with power struggle where the second survivor only needs to distract the killer long enough for the perk to activate.
Lets look at the situations where the killer slugs for the torment of the survivor.
- To bleed out a single survivor.
- To bleed out the entire team.
The PTB does not solve the first one, bleeding out a single survivor. If the killer wants one survivor to bleed out they can make it happen depending on generator progress. Being able to pick themselves up does not prevent being slugged immediately after and every 90 seconds after that.
The PTB did solve the later, bleeding out the entire team. Downing an entire team takes time unless they group up in a small area. The PTB almost guarantees survivors are able to pick themselves back up before the fourth survivor is slugged. Even if the killer was able to slug all four they won't have enough time to hook all of them before they are able to stand back up. (Unless they're all in the basement then the game is over)
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My suggestion in lieu of the PTB version would allow survivors to pick themselves back up but only when it becomes the goal of the killer to torment the survivors. It allows the killer to still slug and gain pressure from it.
From the PTB I would keep:
- Recovery is automatic.
- Survivors can move faster over time.
My suggestion:
- Survivors can pick themselves up if n-1 of active survivors are slugged or hooked.
- In a 1v4 a killer can slug up to two survivors. At three, survivors gain the ability to pick themselves up.
- This prevents a 4 survivor slug.
- This would scale with 3v1 and 2v1 where the killer cannot slug more than 2 or 1.
- This solves or mitigates the slug for the 4K as the slugged survivor will always have the ability to pick themselves up.
- In a 1v1 the slugged survivor can always pick themselves up. The killer has the ability to mori so there's no reason why the survivor must be left on the floor.
- The speed of recovery is based on how many are slugged and taking into account how many survivors are active (Not slugged or hooked).
- In a 1v4, one slugged survivor recover speed is normal, 2 slugs is faster, and 3 slugs it's rapid. This will scale based on how many survivors are still alive.
- In a 1v1 the survivor's rate of recovery would be rapid. The killer should have the time to get the mori but not enough time to bleed them out if done over and over.
- Once survivors gain the ability to pick themselves up they don't lose it until they are picked up by any means.
- That way once one survivor picks themselves up the other two don't lose the ability.
- In a 1v4, one slugged survivor recover speed is normal, 2 slugs is faster, and 3 slugs it's rapid. This will scale based on how many survivors are still alive.
- Survivors when picking themselves up gain the endurance status affect.
- Ideally this won't be needed as multiple survivors need to be down and the killer cannot camp that many at once. Mostly for the 1v1 scenario.
- The anti slugging system does not disabled during EGC.
With these changes the killer still has the option to slug survivors for pressure without feeling that the survivor will just pick themselves up. Another survivor must still help them outside of perks. This allows for them to go after the flashlight survivor or chase the survivor threatening the pallet save without losing pressure.
If killer targeting one survivor is still viewed as an issue then you can implement a proximity system like you did for facecamping and allow that survivor to pick themselves up if the killer is staying near for too long.
whole team slugging isnt an issue, there is literally an abandon option designed for when all are slugged the survivors can move on to the next match.
i would argue slugging as a whole isnt really an issue because as long as there is 1 player left they can either do gens or heal the slug. its like if the player was hooked. the other team players can either do gens or unhook except slugging takes 4min to bleed out. thats 4 whole minutes the other player or players can do gens.
if im slugged i rather the team forget me and do gens….i would do the same if they were slugged. if the team all decide to rush over to me and get themselves slugged thats on them. Thats the only way to reduce slugging as a means of winning, make it so they dont win which is solved by correct team play.
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@rydiafan said:
Half my matches this weekend have been against this "fun" and "interactive" killer build. I guess everyone's rushing to use up the worst designed add-on in the game before it finally goes away.
people complain when the killer tunnels which is highly interactive (getting chased). but then complain when they get a not so interactive myers.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004009#Comment_4004009
DS isnt second chance, it stops giving killers free hooks when survivors have 0 agency in their unhook.
"2nd chances are things that enable the person to lose the match and then get a 2nd chance to win."
The killer can legit go from 0 hooks to 4 kills at any point in the game. You can legit lose the match as a killer, and still win.
You as a killer can fail at your objective by consistently losing, and then still win.
And hatch isnt second chance, hatch was added as a legitimate way of escape. DBD isnt exactly 1v4. It can be 1v(1v1). If its between myself and a teammate, I can decide to screw the teammate over for hatch. That is me actively causing a teammate to die, to get an escape.
On top of that, even if you get hatch, its not a win. MMR-wise, its a draw. Game-wise, 3 kills is still a loss for survivors. Not a win.
Again, killers can go from 0 hooks to 4 kills at any point in theory. I've had games where I could barely lay hands on anyone for 4 gens, and then suddenly got 3 of them downed and hooked in basement. I've never had games where I got 6 hooks early on and then ended up losing. Killer second chance is so cooked into the core of the game, that you dont even realize it.
And yes, bloodlust is second chance, there is not a single god loop in the game. And if you cannot catch that 1 survivor because they are actively outplaying you, then maybe go for a different survivor, instead of waiting for your second chance basekit to activate so you can unfairly catch a survivor who is actively outplaying you?
"but when killer fails to kill before the survivors escape, there is no 2nd chance for the killer to pick up a kill"
When a survivor unhooks, the killer can hit them and hooktrade. They get a second chance to have someone on the hook.
"At best, the egc disabling the anti camp for a hooked survivor might be considered 2nd chance to get 1k but thats still a loss for the killer"
So, anti-camp disable "might be" 2nd chance, but it doesnt matter because its still a loss for the killer. But hatch IS 2nd chance, despite it being a loss for survivors? Great bias dude.
"but people want a way to comeback from that loss scenario"
They actively removed the self-unhook action. And thats not even a second chance thing.
"survivors all slugged, they lost"
Why tho? They havent been hooked yet. You havent hooked them yet. When all 5 gens are gone, should you lose the ability to down? Gens are gone, you lost.ok so killer has 0 hooks, all gens are done, all survivors at full health. can you explain to me how a killer can win that match other than survivors simply allowing the killer to kill them?
As for hatch, many people have openly said they dont care about MMR, its an invisible number. people care about escapes and is seen by majority of players as a win for that survivor that gets the hatch. it rewards BP too. Change the hatch to a sacrifice pit where survivors jump in and they kill themselves….see how many people use it, not many im betting.
Either your new to the game or just flat out being ignorant regarding the god loops. many still exist, even the shack can be used as a god loop v killer with no anti loop and no mobility. They are just not considered "god loops" any more because they now have bloodlust and vault blocking. its only recently they tried removing a god loop from badham map where players could infinitely loop a building and jumping through a window without ever triggering chase so bloodlust didnt trigger.
They removed self unhook because people abused it as a means to go next, but people can still use an offering to gain this 2nd chance back which effects the WHOLE team not just 1 person.
All of this is pointless anyway because comparing kill to survivor is a futile effort, killers can kill, survivors cant. there will be differences between the role. the nature of the killer role is to play untill all survivors are out or dead so need to be able to play the match regardless of how many "fails" the killer gets. survivors get eliminated by design and giving them unlimited ways to play the match to the very end makes no sense.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001089#Comment_4001089
Oh, my dude. Killers can literally win the game at any point in the game. Killers have basekit second chance:
1. cant mindgame or loop a tile properly? Dont worry, that pesky window will get blocked if you fail your mindgame 3 times.
2. dont know when to break a pallet? No worries, after 15 seconds of chase with no hits or ability usage you get a 5% speedboost, and after another 15 seconds, we'll double it to 10%
3. You miss your ability? No worries, you can try again over and over and over again.
4. Survivors hiding for a bit so they can wait out a slug and survive? No worries, you will get a notification where they are exactly. You afk facecamping the survivor? No worries, you will never be shown to the survivors.
5. Generators regressing is technically second chance, it wasnt originally in the game.
6. The fact that perks like DS and OTR get disabled after gens are gone is 2nd chance. You dont see No Way Out disabled once hatch is closed, despite it literally doing the exact same thing for killers as DS does for survivors?
7. The fact that 2 survivors on 1 gen dont finish it in 45 seconds, but 54 seconds is also in the realm of 2nd chances.
I could go on. Slugging is 2nd chance. Tunnelling can be argued to be 2nd chance if you consider basekit bt to also be 2nd chance. There are protective measures against certain behaviours. You call that 2nd chance for survivors, yet "balance" for killers.almost everything you said isnt 2nd chance. bloodlust for example isnt 2nd chance, it stops god loops which are impossible to catch survivors at.
killer powers being used over and over? really? thats like saying a survivor can be chased off a gen but they can always go back on it after they lose the killer.
like i said, almost all of what you said are not 2nd chances at all and not even remotely comparable. bare in mind the killer is 1 person and has no team. 2nd chances are things that enable the person to lose the match and then get a 2nd chance to win. in the instance of survivors…. the hatch. they can fail at their objective (gens) and still escape through hatch. they fail at finding the hatch first, they can still win by using a key.
Thats why i said killer only really has noed as 2nd chance because that perk lets a killer lose the match with 0 hooks and all gens done but still pull off a 4k. At best, the egc disabling the anti camp for a hooked survivor might be considered 2nd chance to get 1k but thats still a loss for the killer. but when killer fails to kill before the survivors escape, there is no 2nd chance for the killer to pick up a kill. survivors can fail their objective multiple times and still win.
What people dont seem to realise, killer and survivor are very different. comparing killer and survivor is like saying "killer can eliminate me, why cant i eliminate the killer?" answer is "because your survivor….not killer"
Based on your odd comparison, every swing a killer misses with their m1 attack is considered 2nd chance which simply isnt the case because they may have failed to land the hit but they havnt failed the match. Thats the key difference. just like hatch. survivors can all be hooked. at that point they lost the match, no one to help them unhook. but people want a way to comeback from that loss scenario. survivors all slugged, they lost, there is no way they can get themselves up but they want a way to heal themselves after losing the match which is crazy. They even had abandon option for such slugging cases, this is because the match is over, survivors lose, move on but abandon isnt good enough anymore, they want another way to win after losing.
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@Foggyguy said:
So should we give survivors a free win button too or is this like a double standard type deal?
survivors do have a free win button…. its called hatch lmao. take an offering and your set. dont even need to do gens or open the gate. if your worried the killer might find the hatch first….take a key so you dont even need to be the first to find the hatch.
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@thedeafmime said:
In rebuttal to the "jUsT pLay Anti-TUnnEl pErks" argument— But what if the survivor wants to run different perks? There should be more options outside of 2-3 perks to play, without one of them slapping the obsession on themselves. This playstyle/strategy encourages future survivors to play selfishly — stealth, hiding, etc. and forcing the veterans (if there are any still around…) to carry — which is not always fun.
I like your suggestions and I do agree that there is absolutely nothing BHVR can do to get rid of tunneling, but they can also take away bloodpoints for killers that do double hook and extra points for hooking a new survivor in between. It is de-moralizing to experience only 3 minutes of gameplay with only a few thousand of points to show for it when the killer has way more points — thus being rewarded for this sweaty gameplay style. This rule could be taken away if its down to 2-1 gens.
To be fair the game itself encourages solo players to play selfishly in many ways.
1.no coms for solo makes the match feel like the team mates are bots. theres no real human element so people are less likely to play altruistically for random people.
2. the hatch where only 1 player can escape. they even have hatch offerings which are hidden from all other survivors.
3. the games description on steam states you can play as a team OR selfishly.
Even removing BP i dont think that would make any difference at all. Tombstone myers gets pretty bad BP score due to lack of hooks and chases but people still play that killer knowing they wont get much BP. people that have multiple p100's genuinely dont care if they get 40 BP or 40,000 BP. Many people have said post match "enjoy you BP" because myers doesnt get much…. my answer is always the same. "p100, thousands of add ons, dont need BP"
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any stealth killer works gook on RPD. its my best map with myers. i use corrupt to block off gens which usually blocks off all gens on the side the survivors spawn on. iv had many good jumpscare tombstones on that map. if possible try get the pallets in the middle area gone. that big loop on the stairs can be annoying but its not too bad when that pallet is out the way
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@Deathlymusic said:
Firstly, there is nothing that BHVR can do to remove tunneling from the game. People are going to tunnel. If tunneling is a problem for you run off the record and decisive strike. Its why the perks were created. However, that does not mean that we cannot make tunneling less apparent. I have a few changes I would propose to reduce the need for tunneling in DBD.
So, why does tunneling exist? Tunneling exists for different reasons. Some people like to do it to be toxic. Some do it cause its "what's done in comp" other killers including myself do it when we need to regain pressure in a match due to gen speed perks. Often the games I find myself having to tunnel is when survivors bring perks that can out pressure me. This typically includes things like brand new part, built to last, and streetwise. When survivors blow through 3 gens in less than 3 minutes we have a problem. I can no longer manage 4 people, which means that I need to bring this down to 3. And even if the original propose changes to unique hooks were put through, I would still have to tunnel in this position. Which kind of negates the purpose of the changes because I can deal with a 25% buff with 3 people. First, we would have to consider nerfing toolboxes and gen speed perks. This would stop tunneling for pressure related reasons.
The second issue is that the changes punish killers for hook juggling and killing. What needs to happen is not a punish but a reward that outweighs tunneling. One thing I have been considering is the use of unique hooking for the first 4 survivors. So essentially, we get a base kit reward when we hook each survivor before they go to second stage. We would make changes that basically reward killers for going after a new survivor at the start of the match. I would implement these by having a base kit aura effect that shows a survivor who hasn't been hooked yet and a movement speed perk that allows the killer to easily get there. If the killer successfully does this they get a buff of some kind. Maybe a 5% movement speed boost when leaving the hook area for the rest of the game (for 15 seconds or something thats worth it), or a gen penalty or basekit forever entertwined. Something that basically makes them save time for the rest of the match. This would stop early tunneling for comp reasons. You could then build in at if someone dies before 6 hooks survivors get a reward like faster gen speeds.
These are the changes that would almost need to happen to actually stop tunneling from being a common practice.
pretty much what i been saying for ages. tunneling is often a result of gen speeds. not always, some will tunnel with the intent to be toxic but many killers are tunneling because gens fly too fast when survivors actually work them.
then on the flip side, gens need to be done faster because the killer kills faster. The fact is as long as the devs keep increasing the speed of play, fast gens, fast killers (blight and ghoul) and fast kills will be a thing. its a simple race, kills v gens, who can get them done faster.
The problem is gens are so tedious and boring that people dont want to spend a long time on gens so nerfing toolboxes and gen speed perks will result in people saying gens take too long which some already think gens take too long so they avoid doing them entirely which i see all too often in my solo matches.
while i agree that killers should be rewarded for spreading hooks, the movement buff to help killers get to the survivor that hasnt been hooked yet would help low tier killers but it would also buff high tier killers with already high mobility like ghoul and blight. if these high tier high mobility killers are exempt from these buffs then sure. just have to be careful the system doesnt blanket buff/nerf all killers.
Can test then if the gen speed to kill speed ratio works out but that can be a complicated one to test out because swf teams often work on gens as a team and can be way more efficient at knocking out gens compared to solo based teams where people are not coordinated or have people that refuse to touch gens, so testing the speed of gens to kills ratio isnt easy to balance.
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@Lotuseas said:
Dear Developers,
I am writing this out of pure frustration, because at this point playing survivor has become unlivable. This is no longer about “challenge” or “competitive gameplay” – it’s about being completely robbed of any chance to actually play the game.
Every single match looks the same:
- Killers tunnel relentlessly, deleting one player from the match within minutes.
- Killers slug across the map, leaving half the team bleeding on the ground for eternity until everyone bleeds out.
- There is zero fun, zero fairness, and zero respect for the survivor side.
Tell me: how are we supposed to “enjoy” this? Where is the fair game you keep talking about? Survivors can’t even breathe before they’re tunneled off the hook or left to rot on the floor. It’s disgusting.
So here’s what’s going to happen: we’re calling for a nationwide Survivor strike. We refuse to queue, we refuse to give killers their games, and we refuse to support this broken balance until we are given:
- Matches that are actually playable, not instant death simulators.
- Real solutions to tunneling and slugging, instead of excuses.
- Respect for the survivor community, because without us, there IS no Dead by Daylight.
Until then, don’t expect us to keep feeding this unfair system. Survivors are done being punching bags.
Signed,
A survivor who’s tired of being tunneled out at 3 gens and slugged like garbage.
5min later…. *plays dbd survivor^
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003457#Comment_4003457
What freedom was removed? There never was open VC. You can't remove an element that never was. But even if there had been, that's like saying "they put in an anti-camp meter, removing my freedom to face camp." Not everything is some inherent human right. You're acting like this is some great, important matter like abortion or assisted suicide. It's a game, and implying I have a nazi-like mindset over some small matter in a video game is peak melodrama.
you have freedom to facecamp. you would trigger the facecamp mechanic but you have the freedom to do so. your advocating to deny people coms in a team game and saying they should earn that right to use coms because you think people cant be trusted to make what you think is the right decision. your right it is a game but your the one talking about saving peoples mental state by not allowing coms like they are children and your the parent and your telling them they have to prove themselves worthy of joining a team first. its a game, its words, they can be muted but no you say they cant be trusted to press the mute button.
you have failed to show how you came to the conclusion that muting someone in a game creates more toxicity. coms have been muted in games for years and i have never heard of anyone saying "i cant mute them because they will be mean to me in the game". this is just another instance of you dodging the questions relevant to the topic but also trailing off into something else.
like i said, with that mindset i dont see how any meaningful discussion can be had. its pointless debating the pros and cons of an issue with someone that believes that people shouldnt have the option of coms because they cant be trusted to mute it. There is nothing more to be said on the matter. What am i supposed to say to that exactly? the only thing i can say is im all for the choice of having coms and be able to mute if need be.
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@Philscooper said:
this is basically the equevelant of the anti-changes in a post but for survivors
"you arent allowed to use meta ######### but killer can with tunneling and slugging"not at all, survivors can use meta but that meta should be available to all. all killers can tunnel and slug so why cant all survivors have coms?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003440#Comment_4003440
I like how you're acting like I, personally, have made the decision to not have open VC in DbD. Pretty sure if the devs wanted it, it'd be there.
The WW2 reference is so outrageously hyperbolic. You don't need to summon Hitler for every little silly thing.
the fact you advocate for removing peoples freedom to choose for themselves because you believe its for their own good says everything. i dont see how any meaningful discussion can be had with someone with that mindset. im for freedom of choice, clearly you are not therefore our views are fundamentally different.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003449#Comment_4003449
its still active, the problem is, they only need to touch a gen for 10s and then hide against for another minute.
its not off, its just severely nerfed.i suppose they are doing gens slowly so thats ok lol thats not hiding while avoiding gens which was the issue and would be the issue without hatch and no anti hiding
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003424#Comment_4003424
you do realise that without the hatch, survivors would just hide indefinitely out of spite?.
this also probably would just make ppl dc to avoid this if a game is seemingly lost for em.they hide out of spite regardless. the anti hiding afk crows was supposed to help prevent this but it get removed. if they had anti hiding it would solve this spite hiding
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Me picking up a Walkie Talkie from a chest and hearing every possible racial slur under the sun in the span of 20 seconds.
I think this game needs a quickchat wheel/menu, but not voice chat.
dont pick up the walkie…. simple. for someone not easily offended i will take it instead
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003421#Comment_4003421
I already said what the problem is. In a coordinated team game, you will be expected to be on comms, and you might pay in in-gane toxicity if you choose not to engage. It's no like CoD where everyone is kinda doing their own thing and you can mass mute. Coordination would become huge with open VC and speech would be expected. We already people suffering through slurs and being told to off themselves in end game chat. They refuse to turn the chat off though. People CAN mute, but they probably won't, and they'll pay a mental health price for that.
I've added people I played well with only to hop on comms and immediately hear slurs and rage towards everything they dont like. So I delete them. Easy as that. The instances are much, much less than an open lobby though. I usually chat through text before using VC to feel them out anyway. Another good buffer.
this toxicity exists without coms. people want to do gens and some toxic guy blows the gen on purpose or rats out their team mate. coms being muted wouldnt make a difference. muting someone in tcm didnt increase the level of toxicity in the game so im not sure what basis you have for that claim.
so people can mute but you know they probably wont…thats their choice lol. who are you to decide that for people? your saying people cant be trusted with their freedom to choose and they will make the wrong decision and suffer as a result so your answer is remove their freedom.
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@BugReporterOnly said:
I'm not saying to get rid of hatch but I have seen survivors kill team mates for hatch by sandbagging or leaving them on hook to die and stealth killers camp hatch to get the last kill in stealth. Offerings need to go and I think they need to spawn anywhere but shack or main building or make that the new 4 percent. If maps have both it won't spawn in either place. Also I think it's time to rework perks that reveal hatch location to something else as I usually see survivors with Left Behind or other perks that help them find hatch. If that is too much then make the perks hard to activate so people who play like that on survivor side can't use it if they let people die to go for it. As for the stealth killer make it that if they are close enough even in stealth their terror radius is on blast until they close it are far enough away that they won't be able to get to it if I'm stealth. I'm sick of seeing this and something needs to be done. Solo q is the most miserable it has ever been. Doing this is basically the new Go Next on survivor side.
i been saying that for a long time, hatch is a well outdated system that encourages hiding for up to an hour hoping the other player dies first. or the killer actively keeping the survivor alive long enough to either find the one hiding or untill the survivor rats out the team mate or slugs. none of these should be things people can do and none should be encouraged but the hatch does give incentive for people on both sides to play in a pretty unhealthy way.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003411#Comment_4003411
You don't have to start alone though. Send friend requests to everyone you see and you'll get immediate responses. Send messages, "hey, I'm new and getting my bearings, would you like to play together?" Go on reddit and find people. Go into the section of this very forum that's for meeting up and find people. Message people in the forum you agree with and add each other. I'm the most unsocial person ever and I don't struggle with this. You just have to make the tiniest effort.
I was playing shooters at that time. It was non-stop toxicity. Racial slurs, sexist slurs, anti-lgbt slurs, ageism. I still have hearing problems from some guy screaming into my old school in-ear 15 years ago. This game is already known for its toxity. Being able to say it out loud would be even worse. You call it dictatorship, I call it a buffer for more vulnerable players.
your suggesting new players go out of their way to seek out friends BEFORE they play the game? i dont understand why you cant mute people. instead you expect everyone to earn coms. whats easier? mute and remove your ability to hear people while allowing others to communicate if they wish? or have people searching the internet for randoms which may not always be available to play when they log on so have to search the internet for a friend to play with whenever they want to play dbd?
You say toxicity is bad to justify not having coms but then your also saying people have to rely on others to friend them. its pretty confusing to say people are vile monsters so shouldnt have coms but then say offer to be friends with these potential monsters before you have even spoken to them. surly it makes sense to allow people the choice to communicate in game and if they click they can add eachother, if not then dont add them.
if people are vulnerable or particularly sensitive to things people might say they dont have to have coms enabled. whats the problem with that?
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@BoopsPlease said:
Okay, I briefly read through this, but I can't really agree with your stances. DBD is inherently not a very competitive game, and you are coming from a competitive mindset, the vast majority of players play to have fun, not to win. The problem of solo q survivor being awful to play isn't because people aren't winning, because obviously metrics show otherwise, its the game is just not fun to play by yourself as a survivor because of how many negative things can impact that fun for what is literally no downside to other players. Body-blocking as a survivor is seen as "troll" by 99% of the community, but in reality its the correct strat in almost all scenarios if you are trying to win as a solo survivor. Tunneling is seen as toxic by the majority of the community but is still done rampantly because its effective and the best way to win as killer. Its not about SWFs vs solo q, or low tier or high tier killers. It's about competitive vs casual audiences and how they fundamentally cannot mix. You constantly see "1600 winstreak on x killer", this is abnormal for any game that is competitive, because you would never be able to actually do that in a game that respects both sides equally in an enjoyable way, and frankly even watching some of those videos to see what these people do (99% of the time its hard tunneling at 5 gens), the killers doing it don't seem like they're having fun either. People need to realize there are times and places for every mindset, and DBD public matches are not a place to be sweating 100% of the time you play, the game is not meant for the kind of push people are throwing on it and have been for quite a while. This is something BHVR needs to address, and quickly at that. People on every single forum are complaining about how they have quit because of how un-fun the game is from both sides, or are becoming for frustrated than enjoyed while playing.
i agree the casual and comp issue does play a factor in the overall balance of the game. half the team as comp and half are casual wont mix. And like you said soloq isnt fun for many people, winning or not. This is partly because they are in a match with people they cant communicate with. part of what makes swf fun for a lot of people is coms. even when you consider casual players, i think coms can add to the fun of solo if they had it as an option. win or lose, comp or casual, i know i would have way more fun starting a solo match and working together with a random person being able to communicate. as it stands, playing solo feels like your playing with bots, its no wonder some people play selfishly when soloq removes the humanity from the game by making it feel like your playing with bots, its missing that fun factor that swf get to enjoy and i strongly believe people, old and new, casual and comp should be entitled to the same.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003399#Comment_4003399
You are, again, making soloqers sound like hapless second-class victims. Soloq is a choice, not a rigid and unmoving position. I was soloq until people friended me. That's how you stop being solo. You see someone who meshes well with you and friend them. This is available to everyone. Then they invited me to the in-console, non-third-party VC that all game companies are aware exists. This allows you to choose to be communicative.
People on Steam have easy access to one another's profile (another of those "advantages,", as I can't see other players' total hours) and can easily contact each other. Discord is free. Consoles have VC built-in. Mics are also built into PS controllers. A cheap headset is affordable to anyone who can already afford these devices we're all using. No one is excluded here, but a lot of people don't want to talk and that's fine, but some people won't accept no for an answer. It has to be at least a little bit avoidable for the sake of those people, because open VC in other games often becomes a hate-filled cesspool.
people dont want coms they can mute people in game
This makes it sound like you haven't experienced the joys of open VC for long periods, because you can either 1) suffer through it and hear the worst things you've ever heard come out of people's mouths or 2) get sandbagged because you muted whoever elected themselves leader. With the small buffer in place, in that you have to seek out companionship, the toxicity is pretty much null.
you have missed my point entirely. you say people shouldnt be punished for playing with friends. equally people shouldnt be punished for playing solo. its not always a choice, new players especially. if they dont have friends to play with they have to play solo and essentially earn friends as they play. in what world is this a normal mindset, have to earn friends by playing in order to join the elite swf coms club. people talk about the new player experience being bed… this is why, people like you that are trying to deny these new solo players the advantage that they could really do with.
i have played online games for over 20 years, games of many different genres. if coms became an issue i simply muted them, they often didnt even know i muted them. back in the days of halo where the teams had coms…. i cant ever imagine having to play without coms to earn friends to then join as a team and finally communicate. im struggling to think of any game that does that. i had a blast playing with random people and made friends along the way. TCM had voice chat, granted that game died but that was certainly not due to coms. i had a great time on that game with random people thanks to coms. if someone played music or started eating their mic i would mute them and enjoy the rest of the game. DBD on the other hand, you have to earn the right to use coms in a swf.
like i said talk about dictatorship lol forcing people to seek out companionship to benefit coms. There is really nothing more i can say on that other than …..wow.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003372#Comment_4003372
The current system allows you to make friends and choose to speak to them. If it becomes obligatory, it will be hell. Open VC lobbies are the worst part of gaming. God help you if you sound too young, too old, are a woman, or have an kind of inflection or quirk in your vocal patterns. And if you've been insulted for these things and thus mute yourself, you'll be getting sandbagged and griefed. The toxicity would be off the charts. I 100% do not want open VC. Not because of gameplay, but because of humans.
Also, console players can VC with one another. You dont even need to be friends. No external app either, since it's through the platform, just not through the game. Again, games are aware that people can speak.
To clarify i dont condone cheating of any kind which includes using coms imo.
Show me where comms are listed as cheating on BHVR's (or anyone elses) Code of Conduct. You might be tilted about comms, but that's a you thing.
first your argument was that 1 can be countered and the other cant which i disproved by providing a perfect example of how both can be countered.
Remind me how you said you can counter someone who spends the whole game under the floor or inside a wall. And tell me again how you can gain an advantage while playng on a Switch versus someone with the most expensive headset, the best monitor, and an insane PC.
i play stealth style killer and survivor and i can honestly say stealth survivor is way easier than playing stealth killer.
This argument sounds like comms hurt you, specifically, therefore comms are cheating.
its astounding how anyone can be pro coms but anti coms for all lol. the current system allows to add randoms but doesnt allow coms.
i said someone that is using hacks like wall hacks can be countered which they can because they dont make the survivor unstoppable.
i dont mind coms, it might make stealth more challenging but i tunnel as a counter to even the odds. this is why solo pay the price which im suggesting they need coms like swf so they can handle tunneling like swf can handle it. but your attitude is "no, swf can have coms, solo players can suffer in silence" and it is indeed slience without coms. if people dont want coms they can mute people in game, it would give them choice atleast but you dont want solo players to have a choice, you seem to want a gap between swf and solo by saying swf can have coms but solo should be denied it which is insane. talk about dictatorship lol "these people can have an advantage, but these people shouldnt" mind boggling. but i come across as nuts for advocating equality between solo and swf? topsy turvy world we live in