runningguy
runningguy
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029984#Comment_4029984
One free, I thought. 20 matches is a ton.
You cant suicide. Go Next works.
Okay, so you either won or are about to win. Boo hoo.
2 free…. i know i have lost connection twice in a row with no pen. you can suicide if you take the luck offering which works for all 4 survivors if just 1 brings it. downing 1 survivor then chasing another away then downing them a second time at some point in the match isnt about to win. if someone gets downed twice they can save that abandon for whenever they want….play it out and something happens they dont like for example their swf team mate gets killed…oh abandon there waiting. oh and 20 matches is not a lot when you get 2 free and then go next and then abandon. maybe play like 3 matches properly and throw the rest easy. i play over 8 hours a night. i can fly through 20 matches in no time and earn myself another 2 free free DC. when it was timed i couldnt reset it, i had to wait like 24 hours to get it reset no matter how much a played
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029980#Comment_4029980
DC has a penalty. You cant go next. Abandon has very specific conditions.
DC has next to 0 penalty….get 2 free DC then a 5min timeout, 20 matches restes it…. go next prevention doesnt work at all so people can, will and are still going next. abandon requires everyone to be downed or just being downed twice yourself….i lost count how many times people have abandoned the instant the option comes up because they were downed twice and recovered while the killer chased away a flashlight player. anyone can DC or go next pen free simply by spreading the method out between the three ways, DC, go next and abandon
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029974#Comment_4029974
You don't really see a lot of growth either though.
The game has remained functionally stagnant since 2021. Popular licenses can only increase the stats for so long. Usually about ~ 6 months. Tokyo Ghoul, FNAF and TWD are all very popular. They've kept the numbers quite high. If January is ST, this current inflation will continue. It will come back down though, right around the average again.
regardless of whats causing it, players are still playing which is my point. when numbers drop then there is a problem, untill then people are playing….they might be DCing every match but they are playing at the moment
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029975#Comment_4029975
The guilty are getting punished, they just arent being punished to your liking.
But yes, if given the choice, I will always choose the option where the least amount of innocents suffer.
they are not being punished, the amount of people DCing, going next, abandoning for free shows that people can sabotage a match with no punishment time and time again
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029966#Comment_4029966
The numbers spike every time there's a new license, which is expected. But as we've seen from the incentive counter, the game is constantly lacking enough players. Historically so with 2v8. Stronger numbers during a big release only imply a higher turnover rate outside of those releases.
Likewise, it's a PVP that's intentionally unbalanced. How many people are clamoring to play those over time? I'd argue that at this point, more people are logging in to play dress up and record griefing compilations than to actually enjoy the game.
incentive counter has been pretty standard. about 100 to 150 for survivor, occasionally switching to 100 for killer. based on my killer matches it doesnt seem like people are logging on to play dress up lol. they sweat like no tomorrow
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029947#Comment_4029947
I think BHVR will ban innocent players, yes. We've already seen them do it.
Yes, I'd rather no innocents be punished.
so you rather no innocent punished even if it means the guilty get no punishment?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029966#Comment_4029966
Most are newer players. DBD is just a constant cycle of new replacing old.
You can kind of see that reflected on the Forums too. Not too many people around from pre-2020, fewer still from before my time.
yet new players mean they are playing the game, not just replacing old players but the player count is increasing every year. not the sort of thing you would see if people are quitting
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029960#Comment_4029960
Players have already stopped playing. And we've seen their solutions to that this year—larger incentives, more bots, and Play While You Wait. It's not a good enough excuse to defend increasingly harsh penalties toward DCing in my opinion.
they havnt stopped playing, player numbers are still up according to the figures and have been steadily increasing since 2021 (a big spike with fnaf) but its settled down and still the numbers are up. let people DC on a whim and watch the player count drop. its a pvp game, if people have to play with bots they simply wont play and the numbers would show it.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029952#Comment_4029952
For a mostly casual game, I don't think that's a big deal. The old system was a mess (talking pre-2022 ish), but we have bots that fill the gap. The Killer is able to DC when it's all bots as well (if I'm remembering correctly). The only other improvement they can make is to backfill lobbies during a trial, but that might not be super well recieved.
I really believe a lot of it boils down to entitlement. They don't want to play against bots, but they also don't want the game to be improved so that the fatigue isn't so strong.
and when players just stop playing because every match turns into a bot custom game? kill rates would shoot through the roof because bot kills are way easier than players, hard nerfs would be due to even out the kill rates, killers that play actual people get steam rolled because they have been unfairly nerfed based on bots, killers stop playing killer role. even survivors wouldnt bother playing because every match they would be 1 player and 3 bots v a killer. thats 1 sure way to kill a pvp game lol let people start a match, DC, repeat.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029909#Comment_4029909
This assumes too much, in my opinion. You would have to argue that the amount of people upset over DCs/giving up outweighs the amount of players who do or will do it in the future. And that in the end, that will be a net positive for the game.
You could be right, but given how the anti-go next system performed, I don't think that's the case.
I've said this for a while now, but I think the ideal course of action would be to make DCs less harsh to both parties overall. Less punishing to do, less punishing to be affected by. Anything more or less introduces far too many problems, as we've seen this year.
i would honestly love to see DCing less harsh for killer and survivor. if DCing is bad now, its nothing compared to what would happen if people could DC on a whim. forget lobby dodging, match hopping would be the norm. start up, oh its coldwindfarm….DC. someone wants RPD….join a match and if it takes 10 matches…DC every single one untill RPD comes up.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029940#Comment_4029940
So, you ARE saying that people will get banned for being bad, and that you are totally fine with that and not only that, but you've previously abused the system yourself.
Interesting viewpoint, to be sure.
im saying proof isnt required, if i see griefing im reporting it. its up to bhvr to decide if its ban worthy. your saying these "bad" players can grief and thats ok because intent cant be proven. and your ok with that?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029935#Comment_4029935
Prove that someone playing sub-optimally is bannable.
i have had many notifications in game stating that action has been taken when i report them for such things as working with the killer. maybe they were just playing sub optimally? whos to say? whos to say a survivor leading the killer to other survivors isnt just playing badly or if they are intentionally trying to sabotage the match. or maybe a killer is keeping 3rd survivor alive while the 4th hides for hatch….is the killer playing badly and just cant got to that hook? or is the killer griefing?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029907#Comment_4029907
Oof, terrible take.
care to explain? i mean your going down the prove intent path yet someone can bodyblock another player and say oops sorry controller died. dodgy ground with the whole prove intent because it can suggest that breaking the rules is ok as long as you cant prove intent. we really want to go down that road?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029909#Comment_4029909
if i was spawn camped and couldnt play i wouldnt play the game. i wouldnt start a match knowing i am highly likely to get spawn camped then DC and ruin it for the rest of the team.
In this analogy, you personally are doing an awful lot of defending the "spawn camping" today.
You don't think you'd argue that, maybe, spawn camping needs some limitations? Maybe that shouldn't be the "optimal way" to play the game for the other team?
Maybe, just possibly, that the devs should really ask if spawn camping is how they want their game to be played, and if it isn't, what are the changes they will make to allow you and your team to actually play out a match?
And, in this scenario, the people spawn camping are also demanding that they receive compensation for any changes, and insist that "if their guns just did more damage they would spawn camp less, trust me".
Sounds pretty unreasonable in that context too, tbh.
i would say the game has an issue with spawn camping and when they fix it i will play again, until they fix it i wont play. thats a reasonable action to take. i would never repeatedly play the game knowing whats going to happen and knowing that my action of DCing when it does will negatively impact on my team. thats intentionally starting a game to grief my team which i wont do.
if the people spawn camping said they need to do that to win and they will stop if they balance the weapons then the devs would do well to listen to the spawn campers, adjust the weapons so they dont need to spawn camp then take action to prevent spawn camping. everyone happy. spawn campers dont need to do that anymore and i would happily play the game again.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029849#Comment_4029849
as you say people have been sent a clear message that tunneling wont have meaningful changes… with that in mind people should know its very much part of the game and likely to stay.
Not really, because as has been shown, BHVR's intent can be subverted with enough backlash. Even if BHVR intends to appease the pro-tunnellers, those who are opposed to it can still opt to be disruptive in turn.
Not every dev decision has to be accepted, again, as stressed in the 9.2.0 PTB, so it's ridiculous to claim that 'people should know it's very much part of the game and likely to stay', since that can be used to discourage any attempt to improve the game.
I wouldnt play an FPS game and then DC when something which is part of the game happens like someone shooting at me. i couldnt say the reason i DC is because im being shot at. This is whats happening, something that even the devs have pretty much said is part of the game is being used as a reason for DCing which is crazy.
You wouldn't over just being shot at.
But you would over being spawncamped. Or at least, plenty of people would. Not being able to play the game due to spawncamping is a valid reason to just refuse to continue to play.
would the solution be to stop loops or stop killers from being able to DC frequently?
Ironically, this is kind of analogous to the tunnelling problem. People disrupting gameplay, ostensibly for one reason or another, and demanding that those reasons get resolved, rather than the disruption itself.
And in that analogy, there's plenty of people on here that are insisting on the 'stop loops'-equivalent option.
Also, I suspect that tightening the DC punishments might have an adverse effect. I don't think it's going to turn DCers into non-DCers, I rather suspect that it'll turn a lot of them into non-players. Which, yes, likely improves match quality… If there's any matches left to be had. (Also, worsening MMR conditions due to more diluted pools notwithstanding)
there is a difference between backlash and intentionally being disruptive by breaking the rules, griefing is breaking the rules and should be punished now matter what reason they give for breaking them.
if i was spawn camped and couldnt play i wouldnt play the game. i wouldnt start a match knowing i am highly likely to get spawn camped then DC and ruin it for the rest of the team. thats my point.
by removing the DCers from the game it might lower player count but it would likely increase it long term when other people know their matches wont get ruined. i have friends that refuse to play the game because of people going next, swap the DCers out for the people that actually want to play the game. banning hackers lowers the player count, but allow them to hack and people wont want to play, this is what will happen if DCing is allowed to continue
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029898#Comment_4029898
Prove intent.
If we further clamp down on DC's, we will see less. We will see more soft throwing, which is indistinguishable from bad play. Unless you can prove an intent to throw, and purposefully harm the game, your position leads to nothing.
less is better than what we have now. when its more effort to hide the throwing and to try soft throw under the guise of being a bad player then people would usually just play the match. currently its so easy to throw people do that instead. Intent is actually easy to prove and its not requirement, its already reportable to grief players, such as body blocking a player in the corner….intentional? or did the controller run out of batteries so cant move out the way? proving intent isnt necessary for punishing that player that was body blocking.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029877#Comment_4029877
Bad players "throw" all the time. Bad players grief all the time. Bad players "ruin" the game all the time.
Thank you for proving the point.
intentionally? i dont think so. practice often means the bad players improve, they learn. with a working matchmaking system good players wouldnt have bad players and wouldnt have players ruining the match. DCing because they dont like something doesnt improve like practice does
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029860#Comment_4029860
Let's ban bad players too, while we're at it. That's the route we'll be taking after even more punishment doesn't work.
being bad at the game isnt the same as intentionally not playing going into the match with the intention of leaving a useless bot behind, going afk, throwing the match, ruining the game as a whole. its griefing plain and simple and in no way should that be allowed.
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@Willish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029860#Comment_4029860
Punish your players too much, they'll just not play. What's more important to the studio? Stopping DCs or keeping the money rolling in?
so we just allow hackers to cheat? i mean they are players that are keeping the player count up right? at some point we have to decide whats worse….out of 40,000 players say 10,000 are ruining the game for everyone else. whats worse, to cut the player base to 30,000 and make the game more enjoyable for them and potentially bring more players that enjoy the game or allow people to continue to DC or whatever reason they want to throw out there? if i was ever to uninstall the game, it would be due to the people ruining the game by DCing and going next.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029849#Comment_4029849
with that in mind people should know its very much part of the game and likely to stay
So take that same "nothing will change"mentality and apply it to everything. Change nothing, and nothing will get better, including things you seem to be very passionate about (this applies directly to gen rushing also).
i dont think tunneling increased when the meta was 3gening and when matches took a lot longer
You have been wrong before and are absolutely wrong about this as well. Killers would go kick gens until the notification told them to go tunnel because eruption could single handedly give them all the time they needed.
It absolutely got worse after 6.1.0, which gave us the gen kick and 3 gen metas until they finally fixed it.
People DCed long before that
Original reports of "go next epidemic" started in October 2024. Abandon wasn't implemented until 8.6.0 in April 2025. The timeline doesn't fit the narrative you're trying to push.
Because you apparently can't admit that there are other issues that could be at play here. Even despite being lead to them and pointed to them directly.
im not saying do nothing. not playing the game is doing something. the devs will see the player numbers drop and take action to try correct the issue. But starting a match knowing whats going to happen and then DCing only ruins the game for the people that are actually playing it while keeping the player count up.
the issue of being tunneled is because people dont get the chance to play the match…. tunneling someone out after 30min after the isnt tunneling. your trying to say the issue was tunneling when the issue was the meta not tunneling.
there are far more people DCing now than there ever was in October 2024. they just use abandon instead.
take it from a tunneler, nerf gen speeds and tunneling will be reduced. and if it doesnt get reduced then nerf it to the ground like the first ptb did. when tunnelers themselves are clearly saying why they tunnel and what will make them stop tunneling i think people should start to listen to the tunnelers. the only way you can say DCing is a direct result of tunneling is by saying you DC for that reason
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@Willish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029609#Comment_4029609
This. As much as people would like to force others to play/complete a match, you'll never do it. They'll find a way to get out of that match or just AFK and open Reddit, like I do every time I'm slugged as survivor or being bagged at the gate as killer. 🙂 I think the penalty system is okay. Hopefully once camping and tunneling are "solved" (I won't hold my breath cause I've have seen what behaviour do) but hopefully things will calm down.
simply increase the pens for DC and go next prevention. if people afk or intentionally try to go next then they would get a pen stopping them from joining another match. treat them like hackers, the game is better off without hackers ruining the game just like its better off without people DCing or not playing the match….just ban the lot of them.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029825#Comment_4029825
it isnt a new thing that recently popped up causing a sudden DC epidemic
Never said tunneling was new. What happened a year ago was that the devs had actively changed the game balance in favor of the killer and announced around that time that they had hit their goal of 60% kill rates.
As a result, and by-product, of those buffs and changes, tunneling had also been directly and indirectly buffed as well. Especially since there's been no limit to it.
And about a year ago. Was when we first had the "go next epidemic" pop up
Now, it's happening again, apparently, just as the devs announce and start testing anti tunneling changes, then immediately back down and broadcast to everyone that they can't or won't be making meaningful changes to tunneling.
So, while people shouldn't dc, for people burned out by tunneling, they have been sent a pretty clear message that the devs have no interest in fixing the problem, and it's going make people more frustrated and feel more burned out.
Which is what I've been saying.
The reason tunneling still continues is simply because survivors refuse to accept that matches are too fast and will not have gen speeds nerfed
This is entirely wrong, and a completely false narrative.
We had an entire year, in the live game, where gens took as long as the killer chose. Those metas even had names:
Cobruption, gen kick, Overbrine, and 3 gen.
In some of those cases, gens took the full hour to complete and were still not done.
And tunneling only increased. But, to hear you attempt to paint it the way you want, you'd think that tunneling was eradicated for that year.
It absolutely wasn't. And we can take from that that tunneling had nothing to do with gen speeds, and isn't in any way "a response", nor would "tunneling get better if gens were slower".
That's not a hypothetical, or my opinion. That's data and facts from having that exact scenario for a full year of live gameplay.
Slowing down gens is demonstrably not going to reduce tunneling. If anything, we know the opposite is true, and tunneling gets worse when killers have more time to tunnel someone out.
- as you say people have been sent a clear message that tunneling wont have meaningful changes… with that in mind people should know its very much part of the game and likely to stay. At this point people need to decide, accept it and play the game or dont. But DCing after they have agreed to play the game knowing what the game is, thats what needs preventing which more DC punishments and prevention will help to achieve this. I wouldnt play an FPS game and then DC when something which is part of the game happens like someone shooting at me. i couldnt say the reason i DC is because im being shot at. This is whats happening, something that even the devs have pretty much said is part of the game is being used as a reason for DCing which is crazy. can you imagine if killers had the option to DC and go next as easy as survivors can? any time they get looped they would DC in a heartbeat because they could. would the solution be to stop loops or stop killers from being able to DC frequently?
- i dont think tunneling increased when the meta was 3gening and when matches took a lot longer. i didnt tunnel and i didnt come across tunneling as much as survivor either so i have no idea where you get that from. the whole point to meta is that its the most effective strat and commonly used. its a contradiction to say meta is one thing but majority are using a less effective strat.
- based on my own experience as killer and survivor the increase in DCing ties in with the time where abandon was introduced and survivors got the go next prevention nerfed along side the release of ghoul. People DCed long before that but its been since roughly march/april that DC really took off and has been getting worse as time goes on. when i say DC i include go next and abandon because they are all one in the same, a way for a player to not play the match and move on as fast as possible.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029669#Comment_4029669
the reasons people give for DCing have nothing to do with tunneling. reasons such as "dont like the map" or "oh pyramid head, dont like that killer" "my team mates are avoiding gens
You are very confident to know everyone's thoughts and intentions. Congratulations on being psychic. (You're wrong).
Petty people and petty reasons do exist. However, you do not get an "epidemic level" uptick in a problem because "people became petty overnight". That isn't how things work, and doesn't fit your pre-concieced idea of this, and because of that you can't even get around it.
There's also this narrative of "can't fix the problem, do nothing" that people have been pushing. Because they really want the "do nothing" result.
you say tunneling is expected which is why people DC, they know whats coming. If its expected and know whats coming, why bother starting the match?
Here's the thing. And I'll explain this to everyone reading who only comes at this from a killer mindset:
You don't play survivor with the expectation to escape every game. You're going to lose at some point, and death is going to happen. That's the devs goal with a 40% escape rate. They've said as much.
Why bother starting any match if you're going to lose? Oh, wait. People do, maybe because they get to do a variety of things, and play a "well rounded game" with some killer interaction, some time out, altruism, quest progress, working on gens, hiding, and so on. Survivor can be fun.
And you go into a match with the idea that that could happen, and sometimes does. You get that, unique DbD speaking hit of having played an actually fun match... Even if you didn't personally survive that match. Sometimes. Until sometimes becomes "rarely".
And people chase that experience. But when you get game after game of "the killer has decided to play the tunneling card at the start of the game" that gets frustrating. Then burnout once it happens too long.
I'm speaking from experience, not as someone who disconnected or gave up, but someone who has completely stopped playing survivor because it stopped being a good experience most of the time.
And the reasons it stopped being a good experience are things that people vehemently defend and refuse to allow the devs to address core problems such as putting any kind of limitation or restriction on hard tunneling whatsoever.
firstly, you making the same assumptions regarding people DCing due to tunneling i mean how can you say generally people DC with tunneling being the reason? are you psychic? although im confident i know the reasons because people actually say them in the post lobby or in stream like ttv players. i rarely see anyone say the reason for the DC was due to being tunneled.
tunneling has existed from day 1 of the game, it isnt a new thing that recently popped up causing a sudden DC epidemic. what is new is the abandon system and the new DC penalty system making it easier for people to DC, abandon and go next more often than they have ever been able to do before. This fits exactly what i have been saying, allow people to DC and they will. stopping tunneling wont stop people DCing over something else.
like you said people go into a match knowing they will lose at some point and they accept that when they start the match. people know they will probably get tunneled, they accept that when they start the match. they expect it, they know its highly likely to happen. dont like it? dont accept and play the match. you cant say "i know what will happen, i will play anyway and when it does happen just DC.
The reason tunneling still continues is simply because survivors refuse to accept that matches are too fast and will not have gen speeds nerfed. cant have it both ways….you want fast matches where gens can be done in 5min, sure, killers are going to kill fast to keep up, hence the tunneling. many killers have said they are fine with tunneling being nerfed if they have more time to spread hooks. i have said myself, im good with tunneling being flat out removed as an option as long gen speeds get slowed down so i have time to spread hooks, there is a solution but its survivors that wont accept they need to play ball.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029211#Comment_4029211
Sure, but my point is that. Since tunneling is not just meta, but a play style that people insist and demand remain... To the point of dropping a nuclear bomb on the devs during the PTB, that players are absolutely conditioned to expect it, even when it may or may not happen. And conditioned because probably 8 out of 10 of their recent games have had someone tunneled out immediately.
Let me put this a different way: gen rushing, as in, actual full blown "4 man showing up to speed run the match", is far, far less common than tunneling. Would you tell killers that they should "wait until they're sure that's what's happening"?
Because the answer seems to always, always be that they feel "forced to tunnel because of gen speeds".
i dont see a connection with DCing and tunneling. the reasons people give for DCing have nothing to do with tunneling. reasons such as "dont like the map" or "oh pyramid head, dont like that killer" "my team mates are avoiding gens so why bother looping if no one is going to do gens while the killer is chasing me". people DC over anything and to blame it on tunneling being the core problem is avoiding the whole point which is people will DC a match they are not interested in playing if they are able to. stopping tunneling wont stop people from DCing over a map they dont like.
would you tell killers they should wait untill they are sure of whats happening…..this is exactly what many survivors are saying to killers. "its ok to tunnel when you need to, maybe mid to end match but dont do it at the start at 5 gens". this is telling killers dont tunnel untill you know whats happening and know you need to.
you say tunneling is expected which is why people DC, they know whats coming. If its expected and know whats coming, why bother starting the match? The know whats coming and yet they decide to play knowing this, then DC ruining it for other people.
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@SpyUA said:
When playing killer I struggle a lot because of the amount of pallets and how strong their perks are and the gen s speed to much it's not a single chase without a gen done. I am a good player but it's impossible to win without doing a 3 gen and I am forced to tunnel and slug to get people of the gens. The solution for this I think is to have 70% or lower gen speed at the start of the match and it would slowly go up to 100% or when 3 gens are complete. Or a better solution for this is not give buffs to survivors when tunneled or slugged and don't punish for this, keep the perks and survivors the same but reward the killers for not doing it even as simple as base kit pop goes the weasel if you pick surviver in 20 seconds and it's a different surviver than last one hooked and don't give it when the person is sacrificed, this would decrease those strategies by about 70% I would say, like the survivors got borrowed time base kit so they got one perk and killers should get one. On YouTube someone did the challenge using no pallets and they won most of the games against even ghoul and blight that would on high MMR that's how strong survivors are against a power role that is powerless and in addition the most surviver perks don't need much to be activated but killer perks mostly need to end chases and hook that sometimes takes long time and it's even harder when the sabotage hooks and flashlight/pallet safe.
pretty much the issue we are at…its bottle necked to the solution of gen speeds that no survivor will ever want. killers struggle to keep up with the speed of gens, especially slow, m1 killers….so they tunnel and slug to speed things up to be on par with gen speeds. survivors want tunneling nerfed because its boring and op but when killers say slow the gens down so i can play the way you want me to play and spread hooks the response is always NO. cant have it all lol, faster gens fly, faster killers need to kill and vice versa. slow gens down, nerf tunneling and you would think everyone is happy but sadly thats the case because no survivor wants longer gens.
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@Shodan79 said:
- 1. Neitherside will notice
- 2. You get a bot who will play the game and not troll
- 3. It won’t trigger either side.
- 4. It removes pointless discussions about the revelvence of the Dc peanelty.
- 5. Add end game chat where bots just say “GG” or sometjing like it.
- 6. The Community is suddely less toxic.
7. Silenty reward extra bp to bothsides
- its easy to notice a bot player… as killer i have seen bots with wall hacks when playing old scratch mirror myers. as survivor its easy to tell a bot from a player just on the actions they do.
- true they will play the game, and leave all other survivors on hook while they walk out the gate….which i dont have an issue with, i do exactly that but from the reactions i get, i dont think people will like not knowing they risked themselves to save a bot that just walked out asap and it would only lead to more people just leaving and not helping because no one would know if there are only bots remaining. currently if there is a bot on hook and 3 others at the gate, the ones at the gate are less likely to help the bot…. not knowing if its a bot or not could make people assume it is a bot and not help.
- These changes would make it feel like every match is custom match like how it feels on xbox….not good.
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the reason blight and other S tier killers wont get nerfs is because BHVR is pushing for fast paced, constant chase matches. the evidence is there…recent killer releases (ghoul and krasue), pallet density to handle constant chases, refusal to nerf gen speeds, tunneling nerfs that affect slow m1 killers the most while S tier killers dont need to tunnel. gens take like 5min to do them all these days so fast killers is whats needed.
Its a bad approach and one that will likely be dbd's demise, for me anyway. its already pretty much killed the killer role for me as i dont enjoy playing speed freaks and low tier killers are getting harder and harder to play. Strange really, because the whole point of why nurse wasnt nerfed for years is because people said "it takes a lot of skill to master nurse, but when you do shes unstoppable" and not many players can master that killer. Yet it seems basic low tier killers like trapper and pig are becoming harder to play, possibly harder than nurse but with low pay out.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029386#Comment_4029386
People like interaction in moderation.
Doing too much of one thing isn't fun.
i agree with that in part, it can be annoying to have blight after blight every match but legion is no where near as common as the top tier killers. but in the current match, due to people not wanting gens to take a long time it restricts the timeframe of the match. gens can be done in like 5 - 7min roughly, that doesnt give much room for moderation. i think either matches need to last longer (gens take longer or another objective added) to allow time for such moderation or very short matches with minimal moderation with interaction will remain. something has to give.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029377#Comment_4029377
People don't like doing gens either. It's extremely boring and it's why we won't see gen times increased again. Mending is just extremely annoying.
so people dont like doing gens yet they decide to play survivor knowing their objective is boring? i just dont see the logic. gens are boring so they decide to go the role that has a boring objective, they dont like being tunneled out because its boring but also dont like mending because thats annoying, they want matches to be faster because they dont like doing gens but then dont like killers killing faster as the survivors dont get a chance to play the game. This is why i just dont understand what it is that people want. it seems almost every turn there is a contradiction in what the player base actually wants.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029367#Comment_4029367
There's a difference between, for example, people like me who hate Dredge.
Sure, there's people who dislike him, but there's a lot of dislike for Legion. They even removed him from 2v8 over it.
It's a judgement call, at the end of the day, but we should strive to have engaging gameplay for both sides and Mend Simulator isn't it.
never actually understood that term… "mending simulator". the whole point to survivors is do gens, pressing a button now and then. playing a gen simulator is ok but mending isnt? personally i thought people would love the mending thing considering there is such an issue with tunneling lol.
legion was removed from 2 v 8 due to being teamed with oni, which im not sure was the right call. i think oni should be the one to be removed. super fast, 1 hit down slug master v legion hit and run… i rather deal with legion. standard 1 v 4, legion has major downfalls and can be countered easier than most killers, hes engaging with the survivors via chase, not built to tunnel or camp. As a whole player base, i honestly dont think people know what they want.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029322#Comment_4029322
Characters should be both fun to play as and against. If they aren't, we should be looking at how to make them more fun.
Shouldn't really be a debate at all.
in dream land i agree, killers should be fun to play as and against but in reality, whats fun for the killer isnt always fun for the survivor. Changing killers like legion so they are fun for survivors to go against would probably make it not fun for the killer so they wouldnt play legion any more. i mean killers play legion now because they enjoy that killer. Its unrealistic to expect every single killer to be fun to go against for everyone due to how different each killer is. like making every map fun to play on for everyone, some like indoor maps, some like outdoor maps. at some point people will need to play on a map they dont really like or play against a killer they dont really like or deal with a perk they dont like.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I'm not sure I see much benefit, tbh. We had the original "go next epidemic" about a year ago and they revamped and tuned up the dc system to force 20 "no disconnect" games to clear your penalty and forced people to be logged in to serve their penalties also.
It didn't work, and I personally believe that the core problem for most people is that the match is decided in the first about 2 minutes, and for many that means they don't get a chance to actually play. We still aren't addressing that core issue so I don't think extra punishment is the solution to the bigger problem.
Imo the fact that we're still having this discussion at all tells me that disconnect penalties aren't making things better and are probably the wrong choice.
It didn't work once, I don't think doubling down will help.
The problem is that people can DC. BHVR has made DCing and go next easier via 20 matches to reset and the abandon option. Now people use up the free DC then go next the rest or abandon untill they can DC again. so the reason why are still having this discussion is because the punishment for DCing has been lessened which is why people are still doing it. its impossible to fix the reasons why they DC when the reasons are so petty such as map they dont like, killer they dont like, found first, downed first, swf buddy killed on hook. For years people would DC in loading screen over a map offering they didnt like. Last night i saw multiple people DCing throughout the night and a lot of them were as soon as they saw the killer. killers like trapper, hag, onryo, wraith.
Look at hackers and cheaters…. there is no reason why they would cheat but they do. same applies to the mindset of DCing. can you imagine how many cheaters there would be with no punishment? the argument then wouldnt be to address the core issue of why people cheat….
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028767#Comment_4028767
Don't bother with steam forums. Moderation there is so bad it's pointless to post anything valuable without getting banned for no reason.
these forums are not much better tbh, i have known people to be banned for literally nothing. No comments made, no up votes or down votes…nothing. Just simply log on, read the latest threads and log off…. 3 months later…. BANNED! From out of nowhere
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028070#Comment_4028070
Of course it is, I'm not saying survivors shouldn't have something else to do other than gens, because it is a boring interactable and it's not balanced. I guess my point being if you're doing that and the killer doesn't have NOED (majority of killer players don't use it and majority of the most common killers played don't need or utilize it) than you're just wasting time cleansing Dull Totems, which are very hard to find without perks.
generally totems are not hard to find, they have very common spawn locations. for example, RPD common spawns include the little side rooms behand a desk (1 upstairs, 1 downstairs west and 1 downstairs east). just have to know roughly where they are. It might be a waste of time if the killer doesnt have noed, but you do get a fair amount of BP for doing them all. the fact its rarely used means the killer is banking on survivors not bothering with totems and knowing the gens will fly so they prepare for it.
as far as the issue where the killer has hooked someone next to the noed hex, that would be down to luck securing 1 "free kill". Isnt that the same as hatch luckily spawning next to the survivor for a free escape? nor survivor or killer knows where the hatch will spawn, neither side knows where the noed hex will light up. i mean it could go both ways for both sides based on luck.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028057#Comment_4028057
I have long said that a secondary objective for survivors IS a good idea. Not only will it draw out the games longer, but it also gives survivors another thing to do as opposed to holding M1 all the time.
We might not have agreed on everything regarding the game and all, but for once, this idea I do agree with.Though I would have liked it if the way generators were repaired could be done differently, think like a similar thing to the special blood moon gens, where the survivors had to retrieve something to start them up.
Let's say that some gens need fuel (obtained similarly to the blood pumps), others need parts (scattered around the map), and then once those are obtained, the generators require a startup time (works the same way as repairing today, but much shorter, like 20 seconds or less).
Parts and fuel would count as special items.Not only would this fundamentally change the way survivors play the game, but it would also work as a way to change the way toolboxes work.
The killer can then interrupt the process by hitting a survivor who's carrying fuel or a part, causing them to drop the item. The killer cannot interact with the items once they are dropped (as to not make it too hard for the survivors).
Killers can also interrupt the startup process by kicking the generator, causing it to reset back to zero.I know this idea looked a lot better in my mind, but I'll share it anyways
100%, gens can be very boring and tedious and i would love to have something like carrying parts to a gen. even something as simple as doing a mini game at the end of the gen to connect the correct wires would be more interesting than the current gen mechanics. it could easily be a 3 stage process, assemble the gen, fuel the gen then activate the gen.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4028057#Comment_4028057
That's not realistic. Why should players cleanse dull totems in anticipation of NOED? A pretty uncommon perk as is. The problem being this specific situation, which has never been addressed to this day. Survivors don't need to be wasting time, especially when they can pop all gens in 5 minutes if they actually have brains and potentially SWF coordination.
its this way of thinking that has resulted in killers tunneling and trying to get kills as fast as possible….. "no time for totems, just gens rush asap and get done in 5min" and people wonder why killers are like "no time to spread hooks, tunnel them out"
i think its far better for the game to encourage survivors to do more than just the gens. it gives survivors something else to do, something to find, stops noed before it even starts and allows the killer to spread hooks. everyones happy.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
It was given a little bit of a nerf some years ago with the aura reveal after the first insta down occurs, but that was not the survivor frustration. What is frustrating is being hooked on the NOED, too close that the killer can proxy the hook and the totem and get a free kill.
I have two potential fixes for this...
A: The Exposed effect is disabled while the killer is near the hook, and this effect lingers for 10 seconds after the unhook. Survivors shoupd use the linger to W key away from the totem, either giving time to cleanse for another teammate or just to die away from it.
B: Relocate the Hex when a survivor is hooked near the totem and remove the aura reveal. At least this way, survivors still need to search for the totem, they just can't find it instantly and instead actually need to look for it like the old days, while the killer can't camp both at once.
No Perk should ever be giving free kills. Billy, Bubba, Oni and Myers already have this problem. Why give it to all other killers AND with a Basic Attack?
i mean the counter is do totems during the match. noed cant activate if there are no dull totems. personally i think totems should be mandatory to escaping along with gens lol. if more people did gens and totems then the match wouldnt be over in 5min and the killer wouldnt feel the need to tunnel to keep up…then the hard nerfs to tunneling would be reasonable.
its just the price to pay for flying through gens so fast, you run the risk of noed
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@Mr_K said:
Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe:
Removed the heal over time effect.
Removes Exhaustion on use. (Rework)
Consumes the med-kit on Secondary Action use.
How three times? I'm only seeing two instances. Initial run to trigger SB. Pop the syringe for another SB. Where's the third?
doesnt it remove exhaustion? 1.sprint burst. 2. syringe for another burst then 3. sprint burst again due to exhaustion being removed via syringe? not sure if it works like that but its a guess to explain possibly 3.
another guess would be haste off the hook being 1. then sprint burst being 2. then syringe being 3?
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@vol4r said:
They can't make survivior gameplay even more boring then it is now.
Longer gen time is not a way for balance.the reason why killers tunnel is because gens fly so fast that spreading hooks and leaving 4 survivors alive often means the gens get done before the killer can kill anyone. thats why i tunnel, i need reduce the numbers to slow down the popping gens. The simplest solution to most tunneling is nerf gen speeds so killers have time to spread hooks. you cant have it both ways, faster gens pop, faster killer needs to kill, its that simple. dont want slower gens? have to deal with killer making fast kills via tunneling.
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i never understood tbagging… thats why i just leave the second the gates are open. i do enjoy it when blood warden kicks in after i escaped lol.
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As killer, if i was to ever uninstall the game the reasons would be…
- toxic survivors
- killer roster being redundant which is becoming the case at the moment.
luckily the only reason i havnt uninstalled is because
- i dont care about toxic survivors, they dont bother me when i win
- the solution to redundant killers that cant keep up is to tunnel
But if i suddenly became bothered by the comments people say and do and tunneling got removed without serious buffs to get the low tier killers in line with top tier then i simply wouldnt play killer at all….ever
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@vvoiy said:
Justifying tunneling says a lot about you and your gameplay. It basically tells everyone that you can’t win unless you go after the same survivor over and over. What I’m talking about isn’t “bad killers being bullied by good loopers”
it’s about killers who actually know how to pressure the team, switch targets, and still control the game. There are killers who make survivors nervous without tunneling, who can break loops, outplay mind games, and keep everyone on edge.
If you need to tunnel one person just to feel like you’re “winning,” that’s not skill that’s dependency. Real killers don’t need to tunnel; they adapt, they multitask, and they know when to rotate pressure. There are four survivors for a reason.
So yeah, keep justifying tunneling if you want, but all it really says is that you can’t handle survivors who actually know how to play. You’re not outsmarting anyone you’re just taking the lazy route and calling it strategy.
There are plenty of killers who can win a game without having to tunnel or ignore good survivors. A good killer knows how to handle strong loopers and smart teammates good is good, eventually.If you lose, you lose. You don’t need to keep targeting one survivor over and over that just screams insecure, desperate, and noob energy.
Mind you, I’m a Michael Myers, Ken Kaneki, and The Pig main and I never make excuses to tunnel.
its not "feeling" like im winning….im actually winning lol. when i get 4k, thats a win no matter how i get there. just like survivors sit on gens and show no skill all match then walk out the gates. its not "feeling" like they won, they actually did win the moment they walk out the gate. im willing to bet you dont get 4k very often with pig and myers….ghoul is busted so dont need to tunnel to get 4k with that killer.
survivors who know how to play can actually counter tunneling, if you cant counter it then maybe you need to learn to loop better? or play stealth better? have to call skill issue on that one and your deflecting by saying tunneling isnt skilful to cover for your own lack of skill.
i noticed you dodged the whole thing of having killers avoid you for being marked as a good looper….wonder why.
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@vvoiy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027819#Comment_4027819
There are killers who don’t tunnel at all, yet every time they pick up a new survivor, they still win the game or at least get three kills.
Tunneling is basically the same as camping, because… explain to me, how did the killer know where I was, but they didn’t know where the other three survivors were?
Simple — they just want to chase the weaker link: the injured survivor, the one they know where they hooked.
I’m a good looper. I win games, and I lose games. This game is about skill. Sometimes I face “baby killers,” and sometimes I’m the “baby survivor” against a killer. I don’t mind if they put a mark on my name saying I’m a good looper — I’m just playing the game, not ruining it for the killer.
Why would I wait in the lobby, then go into a match where the killer chases me for two minutes, I get hooked, and then the moment I get unhooked — boom — the killer is right in front of me again, ready to chase? This isn’t fair — there are three other survivors in the game too.I’ve also been in games where the survivors are close to each other, but the killer only chases one of them the entire match.
i would love to see how a basic, slow, m1 killer can win often when v swf teams on coms with call outs…. not all killers tunnel and blights, ghouls and the S tiers dont need to tunnel. but the vast majority do when survivors actually play and dont decide to go next or do adepts or meme around.
so you would be ok having no matches because killers are dodging you knowing your a good looper? thats pretty much what your suggesting for the killer….to be branded a tunneler so survivors dodge them. you say your just playing the game not ruining it for the killer but do you think the killer enjoys being looped? at some point your looping could very well ruin the game for the killer, thats my point. what the killer finds fun, you dont. what you find fun, doesnt mean the killer does too.
the game is not about skill at all. when it requires skill to do gens then you can say its about skill. untill then, no, survivors can literally sit on gens pressing a button now and then while their team mates show "skill" by keeping the killer away from the gen worker. the gens get done, gates open, gen worker walks out the gate showing no skill all match.
do you not think its a bit unreasonable to say to the killer "ok you got me once, go for someone else"? would killers say "ok you done a few loops, a couple gens are already done, let me catch you". survivors would laugh in the killers face and you know it
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@vvoiy said:
What if survivors who get unhooked are highlighted in red for 120 seconds only if they’re being chased by the killer?
both the killer and the survivor can see the red
for them to help their friend and also for the killer to admit that hes being toxic
That way, the killer can see them and know they’re tunneling it makes matches longer and more fun instead of me dying right after the game starts.
If the killer chooses to keep chasing that survivor despite being clearly notified that it counts as tunneling, then they should receive a small penalty or slowdown as a consequence.
Or maybe, when we’re in the lobby, there could be a small icon that shows if this killer usually tunnels, so I can just leave the lobby and find a better match.
- killers tunnel because gens fly fast if all 4 survivors are alive and active throughout the match which results in a loss for the killer. its not that they cant see and dont know they are tunneling. This isnt toxic or personal its just the game. im sure if a survivor was able to loop the killer all match without getting hit once, the survivor wouldnt be thinking "i dont think the killer is having fun" they wouldnt care, they are just playing the game. same with tunneling.
- your solution is to brand someone a "tunneler" so you can avoid them? so survivors could be branded as "loopers" so the killer knows they are good loopers and can avoid them?
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
we'll just have people opening gates from now on even with the risk of blood warden with a gate kick, which I'm not against honestly.
Blood Warden matches are always the most dramatic and hillariousrecently had a match v freddy that ran full end game build. he got whooped all match but managed to get an injured survivor near the edge of the map. 2 other survivors tried to help the injured survivor for ages. i just opened the gates and escaped…. half way into egc freddy got the hook and the exits were locked for the remaining duration of the egc lol. all 3 remaining survivors died because they couldnt get out….i had the blame for that for opening the gate lol the abuse was off the charts
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@goldn_arrow said:
For now I have uninstalled the game (I am/was a killer main) until further notice because of changes trying to be implemented. I want to imply that these changes will kill DBD because when you cater to one side that doesn't make the game run (as I mean catering to survivor only) and killer players leave because of it, absolutely NO ONE will be able to play because you will have no killer side to cater to the amount of survivors.
How to prevent this: Make two normal modes (one being beginner friendly) where you implement these changes into then have a normal mode where (intermediate/pro) players have the game run like as is before the 9.3.0 or whatever ptb patch. That way it doesn't effect the players who have played the game for a long time and you get new players in. Then if you have a beginner player that wants to see if they are ready to play in the normal (intermidiate/pro mode) a message pops up saying 'are you sure you want to try this mode? This mode will contain strategies like tunnelling, slugging and camping, are sure you want to proceed?'
This way nothing changes when it comes to the players that have been playing for years and years, and the beginners have a way to get in to the game without being obligated to be matched up with killer players who have more hours and play the game as is. This will be a win on both sides because then it will cater to new players and veteran players that know how to play the game around these strategies.
while i agree with the stance of if its not fun then dont play…. what good would a beginner mode be if pros could hop into beginner mode and have their merry way with the new players? pro killers or pro survivors v new killer player or new survivor wont go well.
if what your saying is to make it so pros cant join the beginner mode then what your really asking for is a ranked system?
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to be honest i havent really played much killer since they butchered myers. im having way more fun with survivor at the moment. i can take it easy and still win, no stress. if i need to have drink or something just pop in a locker for a little then resume my gen after i had a drink. no chance i could do that as killer. by the time i get back all gens would have popped and all 4 survivors would be tbagging at the gate followed by "bad killer" in the chat.
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i dont consider ggez toxic… its saying it was a good game and it was easy. if it was an easy game and it was good then it would be honest feedback of the match wouldnt it?
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027106#Comment_4027106
this. in the average game you’re not going to see people abandoning after you downed them unless you’ve been continuously trying to slug and make their game boring. let them abandon and have a bot take their place. no player (killer or survivor) should be forced to play in matches where the physically can’t do anything and are forced to stare at the ground for minutes on end.
thats not true at all, there are many situations where a flashlight guy is hovering or they are near a pallet or someone sabo the hook or any number of situations that would lead to killer leaving a survivor on the ground for a short time to chase away the one going for the save then the downed survivor gets recovered. this only has to happen twice…when they are downed a third time they can abandon regardless of the fact they are still in the match and can play it through.
as for the the no one should be forced to play a match where they cant do anything….. this logic would apply to being on the hook. you cant do anything on the hook so just let them abandon?
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as annoying as i can be in my matches, thats 1 thing i never do. i never tbag at the gate, when the gate is open, im outta there. i just dont get any fun from wasting my time tbagging by the gate. i had my fun in the match, i escape, time to have fun in the next one, not wait like 2min hoping the killer come to chase me out so i can crouch before i leave…thats a strange thing to do