lemonsway
lemonsway
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New killer Idea, Rework all the killers, especially Nemesis.
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@SweetTerror said:
I haven't played a killer match in quite some time. I'm also a casual player so my time in the game isn't that high. Four gens were completed without me being able to get a single hook, so I'm not ashamed to say that I disconnected. If this is what I can expect from the MMR, then I think I'm done playing killer.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/32UT54MW6H5Z/img-20210610-212644-01.jpg
EZ explanation, you beat everyone till you got rank 17, those victories made your MMR on Wraith go high cause you won and probably did really well. The ranks no longer matter with MMR wich is why it's a failed system. Winning at low skill levels will project your MMR to face people who you obviously won't be ready for. IT'S A FAILED SYSTEM.
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@chargernick85 said:
It says right on the announcement "test will be for a couple days. You may be matched with with opponents well outside your range". Not exact wording but thats the idea. Not need to freak out already remember your mains should be the sweatfest if so its working as intended, killers used less should have to be used a bit more to get to sweatfest.
That punishes players who main 1 killer or even if they play more killers they'll still have 1 that is their favourite or the one where they do better with. Survivors don't have that issue, survivors are just skins. Just playing killers who you don't regularly play so you can enjoy the game without sweating isn't a good strategy for the game.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256789#Comment_2256789
Use map offerings, they are not forbidden
i'd use them but you don't wanna rely on "forcing" other people to play that 1 map. Plus you'll run out of map offerings eventually xD
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2256789#Comment_2256789
The new mmr hasn´t been even live for 3 hours. O_o
They've only announced it 2 hours ago yes but they enabled it a bit earlier, probably tested it themselves to see if the system was working and then announced it. It didn't went live after they announced it. A way i could tell is because i was doing dailies for Plague then went on to my main killer and the difference was immediat. I barely play Plague so her specific MMR should be quite low but then when i switched to something i play frequently then that's where hell started.
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The MMR experiment is living hell everyone is SWF'ing to reduce the groups MMR as much as possible. 3 hours into this ######### i've played Haddonfield, Shelter woods and Mothers Dwelling for 3 hours... No other maps during 3 hours always against SWF's, just check profiles everyone is friends, everyone has a ######### ton of hours into DbD. 2 guys alone had over 7k hours... This is absolutly mental.
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Nemesis is just a Barbie: wrapped in plastic, it's fantastic.
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@Moundshroud said:
They should probably just be honest with us; it is never going to work. About a year now of gathering data and every field test a bust. It won't work, can't work, because of SWF. No formula works because of the way a SWF interacts and can be built. Think about the different variations.
- Do they average the rating of all the Survivors combined and that is matched with a Killer rating within a certain margin?
- Or should all Survivors match the Killer's rating within a certain margin?
- When people build a SWF with radically different Ratings, #2 above won't work.
- Can the entire MMR be undone simply by someone creating a new account and joining a SWF?
- How would a complex formula possibly work with the Queues. Currently matchmaking takes 2nd to Queues.
- And about that Rating, how the heck is it calculated. Why won't they tell us?
- I mean if it is rated on Kills or Escapes, those numbers are wildly erratic based on farming, disconnects, Rifts, etc.
- Does it take hours into account? If so, wouldn't one member of the team having new hours toss the whole thing in the bin?
- The MMR rating is supposed to be different for different Killers so that implies the only think they can measure is Kills.
- What data, exactly is it gathering. Why won't they tells us? I'm pretty sure after a certain point gathering more data doesn't affect the bell curve much. What could they possibly know about me in two weeks that they didn't know about me six months ago? The collecting data thing is just kind of moot because clearly the data they use doesn't work.
I'm not trying to sound like a Debbie Downer. At this point I'm more of a Pragmatic Pete. It doesn't work. It isn't going to work. You might as well come clean and tell us it isn't going to work so expectations are properly set.
Thanking freaking God someone else understands how SWF breaks Matchmaking, of any kind, it's not just MMR. All they have to do is treat SWF as KYF, a side mode and join those two pools, effectively any killer or SWF can play together without screwing the MatchMaking and ranks. You can all go Solo and be on Discord anyway. You're only using SWF to break the MatchMaking to screw Killers.
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What do you mean there are other good perks besides Meta? Could it be that Survivor has good perks and people just ignore them? Could it be that the skill gap is so big that players only rely on the strongest survivor perks? Could it be there's too manny perks with similar functions so whatever ends up on the stronger just eclipses the previous perks? Nah, what we need isn't better players so the Meta changes and there's more diversity, what we need is to Buff SoloQ and that will solve everything, what we need is stronger Survivor perks that hand hold bad players even more like the upcoming CounterForce and Resurgence and Bite the Bullet, on top of all the other perks that already carry bad Survivor.
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Easy Fix don't make the Tome Challenges a 1 trial only thing, that way you can try the challenge on multiple games till you get it and if the match isn't going well you stop doing that and focus on the match. I'm sweatin just coming up with these solutions to SoloQ, omg soloQ is in such trouble, omg...Can you people stop using everything as an excuse to try and get SoloQ buffs? The SoloQ system is absolutly fine, the problem is each player doing whatever and not caring for the match. I understand how you wanna take a match seriously and there's 1 or 2 or 3 guys not doing anything because of a challenge but that's their problem not a Game problem. Again everyone should focus on the match first then challenges and dailies. I trash so manny dailies cause they are something i don't feel like doing, especially on killer side, i'm not gonna be doing Trapper dailies, it will either take 1 match or multiple, i don't mind playing Trapper once a week but playing frequently and having dailies? Hell no. BP Economy? I only level for certain perks i don't even Prestige, you get nothing from Prestige. The grind is already horrible just to get to level 50 once...
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2245983#Comment_2245983
anyone who cares about learning & taking the game that seriously is going to seek out advice from content creators or learn the traditional way. your average teammate that always runs around at the edge of the map like a headless chicken isn't likely to learn much from the tutorial, if they even choose to do it. especially if they started before the updated tutorial came out.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2246033#Comment_2246033
i mean you can already blame your teammates if you really want to.
Excatly ofc you can already blame team mates, it's exactly what happens now everyday so you're already showing the game doesn't need to buff SoloQ, wich is what i defend, SoloQ is fine, it's a player problem.
Everyone is free to look for how streamers and tubers play and what they recommend but one thing is watching and another is doing and practicing, the tutorial simply gives you both, gives the info but offers a way to practice outside of live servers so you don't hurt anyone elses gameplay if you don't feel ready. Ofc you can ignore all this but then you're gonna be much easier to blame for the mistakes you made wich again validates the player problem not game problem.
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@[Deleted User] said:
i feel like a lot of you don't understand that stupid teammates are still going to be stupid teammates no matter how many tools you give them.
Sure absolutly but at least the game tried right? At that point you can't fault the game anymore so you have to fault individual players. So by then you realise the problem isn't that the game doesn't do enough, doesn't help enough or it's not balanced it's actually the opposite the game is doing all it can but it's the person that isn't performing well. Wich is exactly what happens now, people want SoloQ buffs to compensate for players being stupid. You don't Balance because of stupid people, you don't give easier to use and stronger perks like Counterforce wich is coming for example, you try to teach stupid people first and if that doesn't work then the problem isn't the system it's just the people and you stop trying to fix people and focus on fixing the game.
If the People is the problem then DbD doesn't need to cater to brainless people anymore like it has done for so long, it can actually focus on giving the good players the changes that actually matter like fixing bugs and improving performance and other stuff that make the game better.
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I can see where MM could have failed but you have to understand two things. SWF bypasses MM near completly and there's less killer players overall. So if this is an SWF then they are bypassing fair matchmaking already and you're the chosen killer. It sucks but it's not entirely MM fault.
I don't play much Doctor but it's apparent you are trying an impossible skillcheck Build wich won't always work, maybe for the rank you are and the ranks you're supposed to face it can be decent but i doubt such a concept will work consistently in higher ranks, if you can't use something stronger it's not an issue, you play how you want and with what you have.
You did nothing wrong and MM didn't either, assuming this is indeed an SWF.
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I feel they are both valuable Perks and have decent counterplay, neither will make you win but they can save something sometimes. Just because EGC started doesn't mean the match is over. NOED and DH are Fair game like any other perk.
Honestly Survivors don't like NOED for 2 reasons, they haven't been hooked at all or they actually think EGC doesn't matter and they've already won, regarding the first case yeah it sucks regarding the second i think it's time BHVR made changes to EGC so that people take it as a serious part of the match. Survivors have no reason to not do Totems, the worse that happens is you cleansed Haunted Grounds and now it's 60 seconds of 1 shots, downing 4 survivors in 60 isn't that easy. NOED isn't used so often in the higher ranks, it tends to be more popular in lower ranks because it's a free Perk, there aren't manny of those and that are useful, sloppy is probably the best free perk followed by Whispers so in comparison to all the DLC perks even NOED is not worth running.
Pig once upon a time was the sole Queen of EGC wich was problematic but now unless people manage to pull off Bloodwarden plays, there really isn't an EGC just Survivors wasting time at gates by not leaving wich forces the killer into an awkward situation if they have somebody hooked or slugged.
Killers don't mind facing DH when DH is used as it should, to avoid a Hit, what Killers hate is that DH can be used for Distance, wich can make a Survivor reach another loop like shack or another safe loop wich just extends the chase for indefinit amount of time and is very punishing for Killer. I think it would be nice to test a new version of DH where it is used automatically when injured if the killer is swinging at you. This keeps the perk working the same but removes the manual activation so that it can't be used outside of evading a hit and by being automatic then it means the server can't really miss a DH right? You're not gonna end up exhausted on the ground. Could be an interesting change.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2243109#Comment_2243109
Exactly. You cannot buff or change things for new/less experienced players hence why we must wait for mmr. I'm not against changes but wait till mmr exists, no matter how much you buff some of these players they will not improve the way they play. My example of the hiding player is proof. I also had better together so she could see me on the gen, she still hid. You could give her every buff you want and she still wouldn't be at the same level as X players.
Yup, i mostly agree with you. I disagree regarding MMR tho. We already experimented MMR more than once and both times results were not good. We've had Dowsey on Stream wait for a match for 1hour and 20 minutes and he only got a match because people actually made an SWF and stream sniped so they could have the matchmaking sync and he lost that match btw although yes it was very late and he was already tired but he ended up losing anyway. He had such high MMR on The Twins Killer that the game had no Survivors to give him a match.
Putting this into overall perspective, in low MMR there won't be an issue, you're dealing with new comers and casuals so those stay all together and isolated in their own buble until they get progressively better, low MMR survivors vs low MMR killer, all is fine. They eventually improve or not doesn't matter they no longer affect the rest of players who are above them. Mid tier MMR becomes interesting because that's where the fun begins, some solid killers and some solid survivors. And then there's high MMR where innevitably Survivors have the upper-hand, 4 good survivors is very hard to handle even if they are all SoloQ, they already have very good understanding of the game, maps, killers and counters so they are not benefiting so much from being in a SWF, if any of them is being chased the others clearly understand what's going on. Killers won't handle High MMR and the best Survivors and SWF's won't get manny matches or be at the risk of losing their few matches. As good as some of the best killer players are the pressure is too much, the RNG in DbD is too much, if they get 1 or 2 kills that would have to be considered a win since a 3 or 4k scenario will be so difficult. You're turning the top of DbD into Competitive but without any fair rules, so all the broken abusable stuff will be used.
This is what will happen the at high MMR, this is what will happen in the gap between the top of the Mid MMR and the bottom of the High MMR, that gap that seperates both ranges will be very very competitive, the same will happen between the bottom of Mid MMR and the Top of low MMR, very competitive matches. In theory it's all fine and it helps and forces players to improve if they want to but they have to reBalance the whole game.
It just seems too much work to first make the MMR work accordingly wich we still don't know how that is going, then wait a few months for things to settle down and have a good representation of where the players are standing and then reBalance the whole game. All this while adding new content to the game. I don't think BHVR can achieve this.
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Solo Survivors already have good and reliable Information perks on top of the game being by default designed to help Survivors since they have no abilities themselves, SWF just makes everything easier BUT IT DOESNT MEAN SOLOQ IS UNPLAYABLE. Maps are designed to be Survivors safety, it's what we call looping, it's how Survivors defend themselves from Killers as much as possible and buy time for the remaining Survivors to do the objective. Innevitably a killer will down a Survivor, they can't evade forever, it's why Bloodlust exists.
There's perks like Kindred, Bond, Detectives Hunch, Windows of Opportunity and manny others that give less experienced players and new comers all the tools to locate things until they get to know and understand the layout of things. There's perks for Team Work like Borrowed Time, like Prove Thyself, For the People etc and there's perks for Independant Survival, like Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Lithe, Unbreakable, DS, etc. Good players use all of them while bad players ignore most of them just for personal safety so they don't know where gens or loops are, they don't know where totems are, they don't know how to loop and get themselves killed very early and causes the whole team to crumble.
This is the problem in SoloQ for the GOOD SOLOQ Survivors, the majority of Survivors are CASUAL players and they don't know or care about teamwork. It's the excessive amount of Potatoes that is screwing the actual good players, because the whole Survivor team crumbles, the team is only as good as their weakest link, it doesn't matter if the worlds best survivor player is on a team with 3 potatoes, that's not a strong team, even if they were SWF on comms, those 3 potatoes will get the good survivor in trouble...
And the good SoloQ Survivors can't fault matchmaking either, matchmaking has to spread the survivors skill level according to the killer, so if there isn't a good killer then there can't be better survivors either otherwise the killer is stompped by 4 good players who won't give killer a chance. Good SoloQ Survivors aren't always facing Otz or Jaee or Scott or Dowsey or Bronx or Tofu or CMWinters or Tru3 because not only there's not manny killers compared to survivors but also not every killer is on that level, the matchmaking has to balance the game and split the survivors skill level. So the problem isn't even that they faced good killers the problem is they had awful team mates, the problem is that there's too manny unskilled Survivors not that Survivor is hard because Survivor is not hard, the game is favourable to Survivors by default like it has to be ( it could be better Balanced in some cases yes but it will always have to be favourable to survivors, they only have loops aka the Map to work with and the rest is individual player skill), you're just playing with literal potatoes. The problem is BHVR makes the game accessible to these bad players.
If BHVR made the game more challenging where Survivors do need to learn to play the game then the population would lower yes but the chances of you finding decent survivors would be better because you've eliminated the potatoes. This is a practical application of GIT GUD. Weed out the lower spectrum of players.
BHVR listens to this peoples cries and keeps making the game cater more and more to CASUALS, lowering the skill level and thought process requirement to play the game. That's why Jill will come with the Ultimate Totem Counter Perk, it's why she'll come with Free 50% Heal Progress, it's why Leon will come with infinite Flashbang Grenades, it why Leon will come with another Gen Locating Perk. THe potatoes don't care about the game to know what they need to know and BHVR keeps giving them things for free.
On a final note, SoloQ is about to get much worse because of the RE chapter, more potatoes are coming and BHVR already gave Survivors more Perks to help those Potatoes on top of a stupid Map that doesn't work for DbD, it will probably never be adjusted since it's a licensed Map...This chapter is gonna be awful but majority of people still don't realize it.
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Low skill level team mates and killers. That's DbD for the majority of time. Average player base doesn't understand the game. People don't want to have to play as a team. BHVR focus too much on making the game casual friendly so they keep getting casual players wich affects all other players. You will see this getting worse very soon with the release of the Resident Evil chapter. It will be akin to what CoD had with the Christmas Noobs.
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@malloymk said:
Solo survivors kill themselves on hook much more than swf.
Solo players DC much more frequently than swf.
You could be the best solo player on earth and if you're with 3 mediocre players and one of them removes themselves from the game early, the killer is going to have an easier time playing that game. Period. End of story.
Absolutly and that's a player mentality problem and a skill problem. They lack skill or are new players or just don't care so they DC or kill themselves and it makes the match unpleasent for everyone else. Unlike say Call of Duty, nobody is gonna fill that slot, it's a permenant Xv1 situation with X amount of gens remaining. I think the best solution we can hope for in a more immediate Future is the implementation of Bot AI when someone DC's in the early stages of the game, example if someone DC's before the 2 minute mark then a Bot AI can be added to the match.
There's an accumulation of things that make DC's worse, you sit and wait X time for a lobby, then you're guaranteed to wait 60 seconds in the lobby then you're waitting again on the loading screen and then when things like DC's and people being douchebags happen then it's extra frustrating because you already waited all that time and now you had an unpleasent match and you're back to waiting more for another lobby, then wait more in the lobby, then wait in another load screen and the same stuff can happen again. You end up waiting so much time in DbD, it's a big issue honestly.
These are issues i think are legitimetly more worthy of concern rather than listening to a large number of people complaining about Balance because so manny of those people really don't understand the game or have any morality in manny cases to demand Buffs and Nerfs but it's easy for any Dev to see a large number of people say something and feel pressured to please this people and i think this is what happened manny times and will still happen.
Most of the times i disagree with how BHVR does things is because i know they are doing those things to cater to the lower end of the spectrum of DbD players. By making things more accessible to the lower specturm of playerbase BHVR creates a platform for whenever something doesn't meat those standards then that whole segment of the player base is voicing themselves and because that's a large number of people, BHVR is pressured to make things even more accessible. Wich is why i've expressed my disapointment with the Resident Evil Chapter PTB, they are catering way too much to newcomers and i think it hurt their designs, especially for killer, obviously it's a licensed Chapter so they have some restrinctions and expectations to meet but this time i think they went a bit overboard with making it too accessible to new comers. and it creates a problem, if something is too accessible to newcomers then the more experienced spectrum of players get something they can easily exploit because it was made with lower accessibility requirements.
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@miketheratguy said:
I love to play stealthy, sneakily (I just enjoy it, it's what makes this game and others such as Monstrum the most tense, exciting and fun for me) which I've seen others describe as playing in an "immersive" way. I've been criticized after the game for this, NEVER by the killer but a few times by salty teammates who, I guess, decided that because they didn't see me I must have just been hiding throughout the course of the entire game. My score said otherwise, but whatever.
On the other hand, I myself have been the victim of teammates who did, literally, spend the ENTIRE match just hanging way out in the corner and creeping around behind walls, rocks, trees, and in bushes. Just sitting there doing nothing but moving enough to avoid the crows, and then voyaging just enough to find the hatch and then camp THAT. Wait for teammates to die, get the hatch, winner winner chicken dinner. I use aura perks and have seen other players do this multiple times. It's ######### disgusting.
I made a thread about it yesterday. I posited that something should be implemented, like a point check or an action check or something that the game can run at hatch time to determine whether the player has actually done ANYTHING. I mean I and another player kept the killer at bay for five minutes with ONE gen left to go because we assumed that the other player was going for it. Nope, they were just patiently waiting for us to lose. Not only should that not be rewarded, it should be punished.
The fact you have that playstyle is absolutly fine and you're skilled at it but you're helping your team regardless if they see it or not, you are playing and progressing the game, you are good, you are skilled. That helps prove my point that the average skill level of survivor is low wich is why people would or will in fact accuse you of doing nothing, because they don't understand what you are doing and how you are doing it. I absolutly agree with you, people who legitimetly do not help progress the game need to be punished somehow, you can't just avoid gameplay entirely and have a chance to escape. It's not fair to anyone.
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@Munqaxus said:
MMR would put Killers against survivors that match the Killers skill level. The matchmaking is so bad right now that Killers and survivors are getting screwed. You're getting matched with survivor death-squads or survivors are getting potatoes in their group. MMR will fix these very unfun matches.
No MMR will not fix this. High MMR = High Skill right? I think this is something we agree on?
So if that is the case then High MMR killer has to face High MMR Survivors. High MMR Survivors will always have the advantage over High MMR Killers both in 1v1 and the overall strength of the 4v1. The Killer chasing any of the 4 survivors means the other 3 are doing gens, as they absolutly should. We're in a High MMR scenario so survivors won't be doing nothing, Survivors won't go down instantly, the killer cannot do very well, they will have to play the best they can and still their skill and power can't rival the strength of the 4v1. High MMR matches will be terrible for killer, mid MMR matches will be interesting most of the times but always favoring Survivors in the 4v1 and low MMR matches wich will be the majority will be horrible but that's the majority of people so those will still cry to buff SoloQ and cry about SWF. BHVR will listen to numbers only.
This is exactly what the MMR experiment proved, don't forget we already tested the MMR system and it was awful. Dowsey had super High MMR and waited over 2 hours for a match on Stream meanwhile everyone else was having super weird matches and why? Because the average MMR is low. We already tested and proved it isn't viable and since then we haven't had any news, it's been months, manny months now. MMR will not work in DbD.
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@Jasix said:
That's a lot of generalizations....
FYI I have streamed almost every game I have played in DBD (3300 hours). Of those 3300 hours almost 1600 are as survivor...and 90% of those matches were solo. And just like in your post - almost every match where 3-4 survivors escape - I am accused of being in a SWF. My favorite part is when the killer comes to my stream to say I only won etc because of SWF - they feel REAL stupid when they see I am solo.
I find your post on par with people who tend to play killer more/exclusively - full of generalizations. This isn't to say that many survivor "mains" don't do the same thing. Anyways: GLHF.
Where exactly would you consider i'm generalizing?
Your experience tells me that Killer's aren't ready to deal with good SoloQ survivors like i said, be it 1 or all the way up to 4 good SoloQ survivors, so when they can't cause it's highly likely they can't they generally assume it's SWF because the Survivors did things right on the background aswell. But that's a wrong assumption like you say and i agree, i said most likely that scenario would indicate an SWF, it doesn't have to always be an SWF like your experience proves so it proves that Good SoloQ's are just as strong or stronger than SWF and again that even good killers can't really handle when theres 2 or more good SoloQ Survivors. I've had matches as killer where i got destroyed and people told me no we're Solo and we finally got matched with other good Survivors, this only proves that this is an exception and not the general rule, the general rule will be for the skill level of survivors to be spread out to not allow scenarios where killers are helpless to happen frequently, in this regard matchmaking is functioning as it should.
Thus the real matter here is individual player skill wich again only proves the average Survivor skill is low, and should be lower than killers too, since Survivor population is higher by necessity, and it's those people that cry for SoloQ buffs not realizing that the problem is their lack of skill and MMR will not fix that either, it will only put those people with people within same skill range so it won't benefit bad survivors at all wich i guess is good in the sense that well with MMR only bad players deal with bad players but then they will still keep crying anyway and they are in numbers advantage so we will still be in this circle where BHVR has to look at how to make the game beeter for the biggest number of people despite the bigger number of people not understanding why that is happening. We've already had the MMR experiment and it went so bad wich helps prove what i'm saying, MMr will only make things worse in general. And honestly it's exactly because of this circle that we've had some questionable changes thoughout DbD's history and why some obvious changes that are needed aren't adressed because it's a numbers game of people crying do this vs a smaller number of people saying no that's not right.
I honestly doubt you or anyone that plays both sides regularly will ever complain about SoloQ needing a buff or matchmaking being in the wrong since you understand that the better a single survivor is the harder it becomes for the killer to deal with the whole team so like i said innevitably the matchmaking has to compensate by having 1 or 2 survivors that the killer can somewhat comfortably deal with in order to put meaningful pressure on the team as a whole otherwise the killer can't handle multiple good Survivors. So the better that 1 good SoloQ is the worse someone else has to be to compensate in the 4v1 aspect but then ofc your SoloQ game is affected by that less skilled survivor literally not knowing anything but you have to understand you're dealing with a less skilled killer aswell so your best option is try to lead the team and let the others do gens while the killer chases you and in that aspect you have the skill advantage or do what you can to progress the game as fast as possible to try and save yourself and help save someone else and here we go back to the whole 2 escape 2 survive balance that BHVR desires. If the killer was more skilled too then you'll have better teammates aswell because the killer can in theory handle that right? But then the strength of the 4v1 superior aswell and superior to the strength of the killer and scenarios where killer can't do very well happens and this will always be true.
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Trickster isn't perfect but he's a bit better than people give him credit. To anyone that is interested in Trickster please check out Raging_Ryuga's Trickster Guide. It will definetly shed a new light on the killer.
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Wraith is pretty straight forward to play, you need to understand that he sucks at chases, you don't wanna chase people, you want to sneak and hit them, sneak onto the next person and hit them and so on, trying to keep them injured for as long as possible and being always on the move so they can't pinpoint your location, so they can't feel safe to do things. You need to understand the maps in order to move around efficiently and apply this pressure, you don't wanna take long routes or routes with poor coverage .
This way you'll never actually be engaged in chases since you're just hitting and running but you get to do it so much that all the sneak hits will maximize your Deviousness super fast. However if you do decide you have time to engage in normal chases then the best thing that can happen for you is Survivors Camping pallets, if they are Camping Pallets you can cloack and uncloack and force a 50/50 on which side you'll lunge with the uncloack speed boost wich makes it hard to react most of the time. Beware you can't redirect your speed boost, this is not Pig's Dash. You either get a hit or you get the pallet, depending on what loop it is getting the rid of the pallet is not so bad if you can do it early.
Bodyblocking people from reaching windows is also important, any survivor who vaults has always the advantage, if you're after someone and you're unsure if you can lunge at them before they vault then don't lunge.
For this way of playing, and based solely on base game, Sloppy Butcher is a pretty good Perk, slows the healing down when you hit survivors with your basi attack or Lunge so it gives you more time where Survivors are able to go down easy. Nurses Calling is the ideal partner for Sloppy Butcher, it will let you know if any survivors are healing in a 28 meter radius. Whispers will let you know if there's is someone within 32 meters of you so it's a good option to find the first survivor at the begining of the game. Walk around and see if Whispers light up, if it does there's someone inside a 32 meter radius from you, check gens first. For a final perk you can have Tinkerer or Thantophobia, Tinkerer will tell wich Gen is about to be completed so that's pinpoint accurate information on where you need to go if that gen is important for you and Thanatophobia applies a % based debuff to survivors repairing speed when they are injured and sicne you want to keep them injured then this is a good way to slowdown any progress they make if they choose to stay injured and power through the gens.
If you've got more options than just base game then BBQ and Chilly can replace Whispers, no early game gain but it will reveal auras and give % bonus to BP at the end of match, Discordance is also another option. Then you have a number of gen slowdown perks, Ruin is effective but has the obvious weakness of being a Hex Perk, i mainly use Surge, pretty useful regularly, other alternative is Pop goes the Weasel. Make Your Choice is also a nice option, increases your lethality, Devour Hope also does that but it's a Hex Totem.
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I've had a 32k BP Game as Wraith and got 1 pip aswell.
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- I won't do it unless Survivors clearly Pepega themselves into it or i can't reach a hook. I don't like slugging even if it's for a 4k, i'd rather find hatch first instead or let a survivor get hatch.
- Crawl away, if i know my team wasn't being Pepega then i'd crawl away to waste killer's time as much as possible. Crawl to a pallet to try instill doubt on killer if he should pick up or not.
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"Why must killer see me because someone went down" Because you need to reward killer for doing their objective. The time Killer spent chasing someone, hitting them twice and hooking them already gave your selfish ass enough time to do something aswell. Your Team mate got caught but gave you time, alot of time or not enough time doesn't matter. Save them and try again. Trade hooks if needed, the more hooks spread the worse it is for killer, he won't have anyone dead early and you're all still able to finish gens as a team. You have plenty of time and distance from the Killer if he sees you with BBQ to react and plan a route to escape or waste as much of killers time as possible, you're not meant to escape the killer forever despite the fact that it is still entirely possible within certian conditions, you have 2 free hook states, use them...
SoloQ Survivor Mains are the most selfish people in this game, you don't want SoloQ to be fixed for the sake of the game, you want SoloQ tailor made so you can win without having to play with team mates, what you want is already coming, the Tutorial Survivor match with Bot Killer, you'll escape everytime you want and prove your skill. I
You cry when team mates go down and don't do gens but then won't save them from hook, you cry cause team mate is doing gens and not rescuing when you are hooked, you cry because killer isn't chasing when it's favorable to you but you cry when killer chases you anyway because eventually you will go down. You launch yourself towards killer with BT but then cries when killer doesn't take the bait and if killer ends up downing anyway you cry Tunneler.
Nothing will satisfy them, that's the difference between SoloQ and SWF and most Killer players, SWF does everything to help each other while SoloQ's refuse to help each other most of the time because they have real life experience where they can't trust other people. SoloQ's want easy wins, most Killers just want to be able to play the game, we enjoy chasing we don't enjoy standing next to hooks, we enjoy chasing we enjoy mindgames and making predictions, we enjoy setting up scenarios where we make the killer work precisely as they are intended, be it putting down traps and leading survivors there by conditioning their paths, be it stalk them for 1 shots when they don't expect it, be it predicting their path way and teleport there and hit them, be it preventing them from looping, be it slowing them down, be it whatever, while SoloQ Mains only care about being a God who can't possibly lose.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2232919#Comment_2232919
Wow.
"Blanket killer buff! We demand you buff Spirit and Nurse!"
"Let's not do that"
"OH. MY GOD. The ENTITLEMENT from you SURVIVOR MAINS!"
Yes, they'll win or lose matches with or without it. Doesn't mean you should get it baseline, otherwise all perks can be made baseline.
Yes, you won't always be able to tell they're using it. Doesn't mean you should get it baseline, otherwise almost all killer intel perks could be made baseline, and about 70% of survivor perks.
Yes, Shadowborn is rarely run. Doesn't mean you should get it baseline, otherwise there's about 20-30% of killer perks and 60-70% of survivor perks that could also be made baseline.
You come in here demanding buffs with half-baked ideas and a poor grasp of the game's mechanisms and you call anyone that disagrees with you entitled. That's some class, buddy.
I never asked for any killer buff in my post i'm just telling you that as it is Shadowborn being base or a Perk makes no difference since Survivors will never be able to tell if it's there or not. So you can't pinpoint a win or a loss to an FOV advantage which completly shuts down the idea that it's a buff, it's not.
How comes giving killers a better FOV immediatly has to mean other perks have to be made base, it's a casis by casis thing. An FOV slider is a must in any First Person Game, it's not a game advantage it's a Quality of Life option for Players, it reduces eye strain, it reduces the sense of claustrophobia,etc. It's the same as having a Brightness option, a Brightness option is a must for any and all games. DbD has NEITHER of them. This isn't a Killer vs Survivor Argument, it's a Game design Argument, wich is why being against a better game is Survivors being Entitleted by assuming Killers will become unstopable mahcine Gods with omniscience and omnipotentcy when an FOV Slider or a Brightness Slider are BASIC GAME OPTIONS.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2232964#Comment_2232964
It needs a cooldown because of the potential for oppressive stacking with other gen perks like I previously mentioned.
As I said, adding more gen defence perks will be trickier now and in the future because the devs need to balance around players stacking them.
Surge doesn't stack with anything and neither will Opression and Eruption stack. Opression activates everytime you kick a gen and Eurption only works after kick gens and downing someone, you will have Opression on cooldown while you're trying to make Eurption work.
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Just remove the cooldown. Why cooldown on a gen perk that has minimal effect and needs set up? It's the same as the cooldown on Thrilling Tremors, just why? TT already has a decent requirement, down and pick up a survivor, for minimal effect so why add a cooldown to that? 16 seconds is nothing in DbD for both sides but for contrary reasons, 16 seconds for killer is not pressure and 16 seconds for Survivors is no problem.
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Tha'd be nice but then it's artificial pressure, it will never be consistant, the killer could be pressuring 3 people at once or have the Zombies stuck somewhere and either scenario would be either useless for killer or too advantageous to killers because Survivors have no way to deal with Zombies besides pallets, blinds are temporary, and pallets are needed for looping.
Imo Nemesis was very poorly made in a conceptual level and the practical level is showing that.
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You're right, i've already pointed this out in other Nemesis related posts where i extensively went over his complete design and scenarios where his power can or can't be used. Bottom of the line is Nemesis is an M1 killer with a gimmick, his whip will only work sometimes and only on Contaminated Survivors, he is a Mediocre killer compared to his Fame, it's a shame honestly and this was exactly my fear regarding making a Tyrant playable in DbD.
Personally i consider Nemesis better than Trapper and that's it. Trickster needed minor buffs, he is much better now than he was in PTB, Nemesis needs a whole rework already since he is an M1 killer with a gimmick.
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Arguing against better killer FOV is pure Survivor Main Entitlement. You guys already can't tell if Killers is or is not using it so does it change anything? Any killer player will win and lose matches with and without it and Survivors will only know they had it or not in the end game screen. How manny killers do you guys really see using Shadowborn? Clearly Shadwborn is not giving any killers any free wins.
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If i could only pick 1 thing it would be a new game mode without gens, free both sides of the gen problem and focus the whole game around the chases. Add a time limit to prevent dragging the game on forever.
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Don't p'lay like a D tier Survivor, if the killer isn't tunneling you don't get in front of them with BT and then cry, it's just cringe, BT is meant to be anti-tunnel not "ah ah look at me you can't down me". If killer is tunneling or camping someone then go there and take agro don't hide, don't be a Claudette, go there as a team. Grabs are broken so it's unlikely that you'll get grabbed. the problem is SoloQ survivors are goddamn potatos that try stupid plays all the time and only think of themselves.
BY default the game is considered balanced when 50% of Survivors die, 2 will always have to die, it's just a roulette, you can't survive every game and neither will you die every game but SoloQ Survivor Entitlement get's in the way, you don't wanna die, you don't wanna make a sacrifice to help the whole team, you only care about you. The best thing about SWF is that they are willing to get 2 hooked to save someone else from certain death while SoloQ survivors are absolutly incapable of taking 1 hook for someone else most of the time and guess what every Survivor has direct knowledge of how manny hooks each survivor has and still people let each other die in 4v1 or 3v1 situations.
It's not a Killer problem, it's a Survivor Mentality problem. I'm very happy that they changed Make Your Choice so that the rescuing Survivor screams, you can directly hear who made the save and know who to look for in case they hide and leave the unhooked survivor alone. Instead of running DS and DH and Unbreakable all the time, try other perks that benefit the team instead, bring Bond or Prove Thyself, bring Kindred, perks that aren't all about ME,ME,ME...
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Imo Pig's Dash is a much better tool but requires more effort to be used wich means it's a high commitment wich means there's naturally less situations where it will be useful. It can change direction, it can moon dash and it can combine both to reverse moon dash. It's a Dash not a lunge that's why it requires set up, that's why it won't always be useful.
Wraith's uncloack Lunge is an extended Lunge not a Dash, it is good but can't be redirected, you have to commit to 1 side after uncloacking otherwise you lose the window at wich you're benefitting from the speed, wich means Wraith will always choose the quickest path, to make his speed boost as unreactable as possible but it is still reactable. Has less reach because again it's a Lunge not a Dash, the window to benefit from the uncloack speed is fairly large and most time's you will be making use of that speed for your first unannounced hit. It's somewhat useful in loops especially against Pallet Campers wich they have to commit to unless they have a window or another loop, they can't fake Pallet Camp and then abbandown to go out in the open. If you're bodyblocking a Survivor he is already there right in front of you so you're not really making use of the extended Lunge.
Out in the open they are the exact same thing.
Wraith can cancel his uncloack and keep going at you wich is a much faster process than Pig's Dash, again reiterating how the Dash is a commitment.Pig has a slower crouch and Dash charge times compared to how easier it is for Wraith to just uncloack and go. Wraith even has multiple uncloack add-ons while Pig only has combat straps. Pig needs some tweaks the speed of the process, that will diminish the commitement issue and make the Dash more user friendly.
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SoloQ is about to get a massive buff with Jill's and Leon's perks. Find 1 totem? Find them all. Got Hooked? No worries you get 50% heal progress for free. Need to save someone? Here's a flashbang grenade. Can't locate gens? Don't worry Leon got that covered. Need to heal and don't wanna be sound whored? No worries Leon got that covered. What did killers get? A perk that only lasts 7 seconds.
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To me, and i've already extensively expressed it, he's not strong at all and due to him being a mixed bag of mechanics i don't see why i'd use him over Pyramid Head or Demo, even facturing potential Zombie downs i don't like it, Zombies are RNG in a game that already has tremendous amounts of RNG, as a Survivor i don't feel it's fair the killer getting Random free pressure or stalling a loop so that he has a 2v1 advantage, i don't understand the thought process behind Nemesis design as a killer. Mad props on integrating AI bots in DbD but the Zombies specifically i think they should stay out and we should make Nemesis himself better by lowering the pre requirements for him to get to use his power or make the gains from the slow process be worth it.
To me he is weakest Licensed killer because he lacks focus, there isn't a single aspect of Nemesis that he does better than any other killer nor is any of his abilities something new. Shorter range, ranged hit's have a pre requirement, his power up has a pre requirement and both can be dictated by Survivors, the pre requirement does not harm Survivors in any capacity and the alternative is too time consuming.
His perks are terrible, they require going through manny hoops and the aura perk is laughable, one time use with duration of 7 seconds that only high mobility killers can use, such as Nurse, Spirit or Billy but there's always the same counter play, SpineChill lets you know killer is coming, Object of Obsession will reveal the killer, Iron will will allow you to effectively hide in a bush for example and leave the killer wondering where you went after those 7 seconds and since the killer can't chase everyone that means somebody is still free to do gens, totems, etc. I do not see myself using any of these perks on any killer.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2219929#Comment_2219929
Exactly. People are acting like he's huntress or something. Must use tentacle ! He's literally an m1 killer basically meant for nothing to get in his way. If you commit to a pallet or window. You get hit. If you fake it you get zoned and hit. It's lose lose for the survivor and gets worse for them as he hits T2 to REALLY not let pallets get in his way
"He is literally an M1 killer" "How good his power is." Do you know the definition of an M1 killer?
His pallet breaking time is marginally better than normal, it's not this super fast thing. And i'll say it again, since his range is worse than everyone who can hit you from range, he still has to step in closer wich means his power is worth less than all the other powers that don't require you to be that close. Where Demo would round a corner and get Shredd ready and hit you at the pallet or break the pallet, Nemesis has to take 2 extra steps after rounding the corner to compensate for shorter reach, meaning Survivors have more time to make the right play, meaning Nemesis is Slower not only getting to where he is in range to break pallet or hit Survivor but at the breaking the pallet aswell, Demo is faster than Nemesis. Don't try to make up positive things about this cause there aren't any.
Nemesis is a mix of too manny Killers but he doesn't do any of those things better, he was worse range than everyone else that is ranged killer, his Contaminated doesn't Hurt you directly and tearing up to max power is just as bad as Myers and the gains from powering up are slim and worse than when Myers powers up, how after 5 years can BHVR make a killer that is a mix of all these things and not have him be good at any of them and he ends up being just another M1 killer. 5 years in no Dev should be making a character that is like this. He is not a better anti-looper, he has no map pressure, he has no mobility, any stealth element his denied by the sheer size of the character that can be seen through tall loops, there's no redeeming quality to the Killer.
He is worse than every other ranged killer, even Trickster. It would be nice for Trickster to be 115% movement speed like Nemesis yes but imagine if Nemesis was 110% instead would his Tentacle even be useful? No, you're too slow and you have to aim something very limited in range, you're not DeathSlinger that has alot more range to compensate for being slower. Nemesis has to be 115% while Trickster can manage himself at 110%.
And he can't hurt you directly with the Tentacle if you're not Contaminated while every other ranged killer will definetly hurt you even Plague will innevitably hurt you if you don't cleanse and you won't be able to heal if you don't cleanse but with Nemesis it doesn't matter if you're Contaminated, it doesn't hurt you directly,
Remove the Zombies and i'd rather play Trapper, at least i can plan my Trap locations better than i can plan Zombie locations and if the Trap works then thats 1 point of Damage, i don't have to deal with getting you Contaminated first so that my power works...
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2219907#Comment_2219907
May I ask what is so good about T3 that T2 doesn't have ? From all the information I gathered, T3 only increases the range of the attack by 1 meter (from 5m to 6m).
From all my games I've never bothered tiering up to T3 since the rewards is completely useless imo and I've utilised T2 just fine, it's where the main power surge is. T3 seem extremely underwhelming when the only benefit of charging it is 1 meter increase to already good enough distance of the whip attack.
Tier 3 allows for better range consistency and a small buff to recovery. It's nice to have because of the tentacle range alone because using the tentacle become more consistant. The gains are minimal obviously but then ask yourself if the gains are minimal then why even bother right? If you don't bother with it then you're saying it's not worth, if it's not worth in players eyes then it's a badly design power and since killers are their power then it's a badly designed killer wich is my whole point he is a badly designed killer i'm just pointing ou the multiple ways he is badly designed. He isn't like Spirit in the sense that his design is so bad that you can't counterplay him, he is designed so bad that he has too much counterplay and his power up is not worth all that much. He can't be considered a strong killer with all this in mind wich is the reason of the og post.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2219395#Comment_2219395
Ok...Here is what I'm trying to convey to you. You CANNOT do both. You cannot cuck his power by contaminating yourself. AND have his tentacles take 3 hits to down you. It's one of the other.
If you don't contaminate yourself. I'm building my power fast. And if you DO. You are now vulnerable to his tentacle attacks which will now do damage.
You're saying his range in t1 is terrible. And Im telling you it's more then good enough. Because "if you're close enough to hit..You can just m1" And that's the whole point of his power. Because sometimes when you're that close you cant m1 because there's a window or pallet in the way. And his range now makes it unsafe and will end a chase in quick order.
You're also banking WAY to much on getting to T3. T2 let's you break pallets fast as hell..Have you ever tried to run from a demo with STBFL and shreds every pallet ? What about a bubba breaking every pallet ? Can you get much distance ? No you cannot
Sure you can't do both but if you cuck his power than he has no reach on his tentacle, wich means his M2 will only hit from up close wich at that point the difference between M2 and M1 isn't that big, will it give you some more hits yes it will but it's not gonna give you the hits that tier 3 gives and tier 3 is where he can effectively anti-loop. Tier 3 is where the Tentacle is the most useful but if he can't get to tier 3 then he is in trouble, he is designed to get to tier 3 so if he can't get there because Survivors can deny it then he is obviously weaker. His Tentacle reach is always less than Pyramid Head, Slinger, Plague, Demo and Trickster and Huntress obviously. Even Wraith might cover more distance with his uncloack lunge vs tier 1 and tier 2 Tentacle, i can be wrong on this one but not by much.
What does it matter if Nemesis can break pallets? It's only an issue if you're Contaminated wich if you are then it's just a normal chase but unlike Demo, Nemesis in tier 2 can't reach as much as Demo's Shredd, so yes he'll break a pallet and so what? If you're not Contaminated then he has to hit you 3 times and if you're Contaminated he still has to hit you 2 times, a normal DbD chase. What does it matter if he breaks the pallet? Him breaking the pallet and not hitting you is better for you in every scenario. If you're injured but not Contaminated then he has to M1, if you're contaminated then he can M2 but depends on distance between you and him after Nem breaks the pallet. So even injured and Contaminated breaking the pallet doesn't mena you insta die, he's not faster than buba using chainsaw and he doesn't reach where Demo reaches so after breaking the pallet you're safer against Nem than you would be against Bubba or Demo.
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@onemind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2218126#Comment_2218126
He is deffently not weaker than trickster his power can hit over some loops he is 115 for generic tiles and dosent need 16 knives to.down
Survivors dictate how Nemesis uses his power. Trickster has more control over his power, both powers hit over the same loops, yeah Trickster is a bit slower but he can attack you faster and has more range so having to hit more isn't that bad of a trade.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2219212#Comment_2219212
Ok. I'll explain it to you the best I can and this will be it. Because you clearly don't get what Nemesis is capable of ask yourself these questions
What do you use for safety when being chased. Pallets ? Windows ?
Do you loop around rocks, trees, etc several times before dropping a pallet ?
Now....Ask yourself these questions.
Is Nemesis slow ? He's 4.6 so no
What does Nemesis range ignore..? Is it the very same pallets and windows you use for safety ?
Does the T1 range matter ? No not when used in the proper situations.
If you stay contaminated and can be injured by the tentacle..You're going to go down at spots where you could of been safe otherwise. And cost yourself an escape of adding 30 + seconds on to a chase
Ofc the tier 1 range matters, Tier3 has much better range and will give the hits tier 1 doesn't. Tier 1 requires to be closer to the point where going for M1 is worth more because it directly injures instead of just Contaminate wich makes M2 useless until it is tier3 but you won't get to tier3 if you don't use M2. How are you not understanding the problem? Nemesis is forced to use a weaker tool to power himself up but powering himself takes so much time that the tool then is barely used at it's max power. It's the same as Plague where before she didn't start with a Corrupt Fountain so she was at the mercy of Survivors cleasing to get to use her power, Nemesis is the same issue all over again and Zombies alone takes too long to power up to make M2 worth using against survivors. Until tier 3 M2 is no worth when M1 does a better job.
To go down to Tenteacle you need to be Contaminated meaning Nemesis has to hit 3 times... Hitting 3 times with M2 is more time consuming than hitting 2 times with M1 meaning once again M2 is useless. As a Survivor do you want to go down to 2 hits or 3 hits? Ofc you wanna go down to 3 hits so a Nemesis that keeps using his Tentacle is more benefitial to you as a Survivor.
You yourself already agreed he is an M1 killer why are you still trying to defend the Tentacle, it's range is laughable at tier 1 and 2 and tiering up to tier3 takes so long that it keeps the Tentacle weak for the majority of the match meaning you're forcing a 3 hit for Nemesis if he choses to use the Tentacle isntead of M1 how can you say that is bad for Survivors and good for Nemesis?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2218066#Comment_2218066
Read and most of this is just not true.
"Being infected does nothing. And while you CAN rob him of some of his tier by infecting yourself." As a Nemesis. I would gladly welcome that because it DOES do something. It means that my range will now do damage to you. And that's bigger then you seem to think. A good Nemesis is going to make pallets and windows VERY unsafe for you if you choose to stay infected
"It takes 3 hits to down someone with your power !!!"Which is it....People are going to CHOOSE to stay infected ? Or not....? Because of you choose to stay infected. I'm taking a health state
"It's too much work to hit the power !! You can just m1 !" Who says you have to always go for his power ? M1 is perfectly viabale for him...In fact he's 4.6 and MEANT to be an m1 killer. Nowhere does it say in the rule book you HAVE to go for his power..In fact much like Demo. STBFL is going to be money on him. He's an m1 killer that's almost meant to make windows and pallets very unsafe for you
The zombies are more there for ambiance and to feed Nemesis. But they can be annoying and push off a gen...And ANY information is good really. If I have one slugged..One on the hook and I see a zombie chasing. That means I effectively know where 3 out of 4 people are. ANY information is good information for killer
I'm not going to write paragraphs on this because you can just read everything I've already posted on this thread explaining why he's so good. But basically ANYTHING you can do against an m1 killer for to keep you safe. Does NOT apply to Nemesis. He can literally ignore mechanics of the game(pallets and windows) There is literally nothing bad about that.
You only get increased range in tier 3 so hitting over pallets, windows and loops won't be easy until you reach tier 3, you'll need to be really close during tier 1 and tier 2 wich means with 1 more second of chasing you can get an M1 when you compare the reach of tentacle to what distance you gain from moving that 1 second plus using the M1 lunge, the Tentacle before tier 3 is not a huge advantage.
If all 4 survivors are already Contaminated then you're forced to use Zombies and Zombies give very little progress to mutation, you'll need the addons so no it's not good for Nemesis to have Survivors infected all the time, Nemesis needs them to cleanse in order to get tier up faster without having to rely on add-ons but there's no reason survivors should get the Vaccine because being Contaminated doesn't mean you get injured like it is against Plague. Survivors can go for Zombies and purposefully get Contaminated and cuck Nemesis out of very meaningful and very needed mutation progress and still be healthy. Getting Contaminated doesn't damage you in any way, the hindrance status effect is also meaningless, if Nemesis hits you with the tentacle that means he is right there on your ass in a chase, hindrance doesn't affect survivor ability in chase. So you're still healthy and you can still do everything normally and by staying Contaminated you're forcing a slowdown on Nemesis mutation progress, thus keeping him weaker for more time.
Survivors have to get hit 3 times to go down by Tentacle or Zombies, how is being Contaminated a problem for Survivors if it works like this? If you're Contaminated it will take 2 hits, the normal amount. Meaning the Contaminated hit from entacle or Zombie doesn't damage Survivors at all.
"In fact he's 4.6 and MEANT to be an m1 killer" - Exactly he is meant to be an M1 killer so getting Survivors Contaminated is useless when you can just go for M1 injury and skip the whole power up process that only slows Nemesis down. All the Contaminated effect does is build the Tentacle but like you said he is an M1 killer so you can simply ignore his power wich means his power is dumb and far more trouble than it's worth. Does the Tentacle help in chases yes it does if it's in tier 3 but getting to tier 3 takes so long that if you're not going for heavy slowdown perks then you'll never get to use tier 3 in a meaningful way so your Tentacle range and recovery is very poor.
Against a Survivor THAT IS NOT Contaminated tier 3 still means Nemesis has to hit you 3 Times with the Tentacle, the Tentacle cannot hurt your health if you're not Contaminated, so yes tier 3 gives Nemesis more reach and makes the power more maneagble with recovery but it's still 3 hits so how is that worth more than 2 M1's?
So all a Survivor has to do is delay getting Contaminated as much as possible to delay Nemesis mutation progression, do your Survivor stuff as usual and once you get the tier 3 sound cue, use a Vaccine and force Nemesis again to have to hit you 3 times eith the Tentacle. Being Contaminated throughout the matches means nothing, you're still healthy and if Nemesis chases you then it's normal DbD with 2 hits down.
Nemesis base kit needs to be adressed otherwise he's a glorified M1 killer, like Legion or Trapper or Myers, except Myers has 1 shot downs. I can excuse Contamination being absolutly useless if Nemesis can get tier 3 faster and make use of the Tentacle on loops cause otherwise like you said he is an M1 killer.
The Zombies are RNG, they'll help or they won't help. Information is only useful if there's anything you can do about it. If you got 1 guy hooked and another slugged and you see a Zombie chasing someone are you gonna go there and leave the 4th survivor to get a double save? Will you leave and let a potential Unbreakable play happen while the 4th survivor could be cranking a gen? If you're far away then that information is something but doesn't mean there's anything you can do about it, if you're closer then you might be able to start a chase. I can have Legion killer instinct procc on all the map and know there's someone in the opposite corner of the map but there's no way to get there in a timely fashion to do anything, the same applies to Zombies. The difference is Zombies can actually force you out of where you are wich is totally RNG based on their placement, i don't think that is any fair towards Survivors when it happens but thankfully it only happens so few times. If the killer relies on RNG for pressure then it's a badly designed killer.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2218066#Comment_2218066
Worse then trickster ? I gotta tell you. I quit reading after that. That's the farthest thing from the truth .
You are wrong. Read it all i'm being very detailed about why he is weaker than Trickster, even PTB Trickster, i've played PTB Trickster...
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Worse than Trickster.
The Infection he can cause does nothing, it's purely a blue visual effect for survivor, it doesn't hurt survivors so there's no need to cleanse at all but Nemesis needs to hit and infect to gain his power up but if survivors don't cleanse then he can't power up cause he can't infect who is already infected so he has to use his tentacle on Zombies but zombies give very little mutation in comparison wich means you are already dependant on add-ons to increase the infection gain from Zombies so you can keep powering up once all survivors are Infected. Zombies can also infect Survivors so if a survivor purposefully infects themselves via a zombie they are robbing Nemesis of a big chunk of mutation progress and again there's no downside to being Infected at all so make your conclusions on this...
The Tentacle reach is not that good in tier 1 and even at max power, tier 3, the reach is less than Demo's Shredd, less than Pyramid Heads Special or Deathslinger's harpoon, it's more like Myers Extended Lunge in Evil Within 3, maybe a bit better than that but not by much.
The Tentacle has no verticality, it only hits directly in front of him, you can't aim up or down so if survivors crouch behind windows or pallets they are safe from the Tentacle. It's basicly Scorpion's chain spear from Mortal Kombat if it serves as reference. And the hitbox is not very wide, it's pretty narrow, narrower than PHead's Special.
The first time you hit a Survivor with the Tentacle you will either infect them and gain some mutation towards tier 2 OR if the survivor is already infected you will damage them so they become injured. So if you find a healthy survivor that isn't infected, you msut use the Tentacle 3 times to down them, first use for infection and then 2 more times as normal damaging hits. Survivors need to be Infected for the tentacle to do normal damage. If a Survivor is injured but not Infected you need 2 Tentacles hits, first for infection and the second for normal damage. You are always forced to play around the Infection mechanic while Survivors suffer no consequences wether or not they are infected, this needs to be adressed, the killer can't go live like this, hitting Survivors 3 times with power is more time consuming than going for 2 normal M1 hits.
The Zombies that spawn in, spawn in an RNG fashion so they aren't always reliable but you can see their auras in white.If you see the Zombie trying to reach for something then it's an indication that there's a survivor in that area, it's some information but you don't have any mobility tool to get there if you're far away so this information ends up not being anything meaningful. Zombies can however block windows or pallets wich will help you once or twice, it's not a super useful thing that happens constantly unless the RNG Gods have Blessed you.
So lacks mobility, lacks range, Zombies are RNG, tiering up in power is very slow and Survivors can control that, he is very tall and easy to spot from far. I genuinly can't say this is any good for any killer.
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Considering how Nemesis works and what Jill and Leon can do with flashbangs and mines Survivors are winning big time on this update. Free blinds without items, gg BHVR, the Gen mine is especially too strong since you have to waste too much time if you really want or need to kick the gen and the flash is really freaking bright, tone down the brightness of the blash BHVR.
Nemesis perks are very trashy, 7 seconds of auras at the begining? GG you only play with 3 perks for X minutes and there's no guarantee those 7 seconds actually allow you to do something. 7 seconds won't allow you to cross the map, won't allow to stalk either and you're left with 3 perks.
Going around kicking gens takes time and 6% regression is laughable plus there's 90 sec cooldown on top, gg BHVR, Pop and Surge and more effective.
Oblivous status effect does nothing to Survivor, they can still see you from far away plus the requirements are awkward, by the time you get 2 people injured the first person might have had enough time to heal already so there's no way, even on Legion, that you'll injure 3 people then cancel Frenzy, fatigue for 4 seconds, then go to hit the fourth with an M1 and make the other 3 oblivious without someone having healed up but let's say this actually happens, what does it matter if they are Oblivious, i'm not gonna go across map to down any of the other 3 when i can keep chasing the fourth guy, so i gain nothing from Oblivious status effect. It's countered by SpineChill aswell.
Ah but a hit and run playstyle, who uses that? Wraith and GF? Those two are already hidding their TR for most of the time so they don't benefit from this perk. The only possible way this perk works somewhat decently on any killer would be Deathsling that has actual range that can catch somebody off guard but then again the requirements for the perk to be effective are ass so unless the Deathslinger plays hit and run and hits the longest shots possible he won't be benefiting from this perk. Playing hit and run on Pyramid Head doesn't seem ideal either he lacks mobility and his tool kit already give him a good power.
At the moment i legit don't know how any of these perks seem remotly useful to anyone.
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Nemesis is weaker or as weak as Depipster was, there's no way he should be nerfed. His tentacle has the range of a finger nail, Contamination does nothing to Survivors, there's no need to cleanse it's just blue goop on you, it's purely visual but if you don't cleanse then i can't keep tearing up so i have to kill my own zombies but they give very little mutation so i need the add-ons to increase mutation gain from zombies. This is already problematic.
The tentacle doesn't allow for any tracking, it doesn't have any verticality to it either. It's more like Scorpion's Spear in MK than an actual tentacle. It takes 3 Tentacle hits to down a survivor, first for infection, 2 more for DMG since you can't do DMG without infection... If a Survivor is already injured but not Infected i still have to hit twice with Tentacle. This is an M1 killer very clearly, his power is a hindrance.
The Zombies are placed by RNG so using them to gain mutation and tier up means i might have to go a different path just to get to them...Also if a Zombie infects a Survivor i'm losing big time by not infecting with Tentacle, means i'll tear up even slow. Zombies also take 3 hits to down a survivor since they only do DMG if they apply Infection first...
Nemesis couldn't be more RNG if BHVR tried...Tyrant BOW for Killer was a terrible choice.
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Scott is wrong about Legion and Dowsey is wrong about Myers and i'm being serious here. Trapper is even worse than those 2 since those have some control when they use their power, Trapper just hopes for the best and has the usage of his power limited to what he can carry and legitemetly has to abandon parts of the game to get to use his power. Myers and Legion without add-ons are far more maneagble than Trapper and Myers might lose some game to stalk but his power up far overshadows Trapper's power. So objectively speaking Scott and Dowsey are very wrong when it comes to who the worst killer is.
Regarding the issue at hand, that's exactly why i stopped following some streamers content actively, i'll watch every now and then to see their position on stuff as the game progresses and i can agree to some points but disagree on others. I'll say Spirit has no counterplay and even BHVR don't know how to add counterplay without making her useless, honestly i think the best they can do is add a faint streak effect for her hair or glass shards while she's phasing so survivors can track her if they can see the faint streak. This way there's an actual perceivable way to know she's phasing and where she's phasing to, BHVR has Wraith's shimmer coded already just adapt that functionality to Spirit when she is phasing but make it slightly less visible. It will still be a 50/50 in some scenarios but it's a 50/50 based on something like Red Glow mindgames are still 50/50, survivor either falls for them or doesn't.
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Let's nerf Spirit and get Billy back.
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There's two sides to this and both of them are about how unbalanced (not in terms of wich side is more powerful but in terms of the game contradicting itself) and how random the game is. To me a Survivors objective is Survive, there's no need for Gens to be a thing in game and Killers objective is chasing, capturing and hooking survivors not Gen defense. DbD isn't a Tower (Gen) defense game in concept but it plays like one for some reason.
Short chases suck for survivors but are essential to killers because the whole process is time consuming for killers but the problem isn't the chase being time consuming itself is the fact that killer has to interfere with Survivors objective. Survivors can escape without ever engaging the killer, won't happen frequently but it's a possible scenario.
Long chases are only possible by player mistake, wich are fair since those happen in both sides, or unbalanced maps wich have loops that will be artificial time wasters that killer has to break the pallet or wall.
Killers want to stop gens as much as possible and any Survivor wants to finish gens ASAP, especially the ones being chased want the remaining Survivors to finish them ASAP, so as is the game isn't about killer survivor interaction in terms of chasing and escaping but in terms of who is controlling gens. Again we're in a Horror tthemed Survival game disputting Gens instead of actual Survival in a Horror themed game.
There's a quick fix to these issues, remove gens and make the game all about chases, this removes the time constraints for killers, removes a huge balance issue and allows for better map design, allowing for longer chases to happen without killers feeling desperate, if a chase is proving to difficult the killer can go after someone else. Killers would be better tunned for chases allowing for more counterplay. All this would mean a huge radical change in the game but 5 years of Gens kinda warrant a change in gameplay loop especially since Gens are the main component of problems for both sides.
And idea i've already expressed here in another topic and in some youtube channels is to have a game mode that is time limited where all 5 players rotate between Survivor and Killer in quick rounds of Surviving and killing. You pick a Survivor and build and a Killer and build, we're all thrown into the map and we're all in 3 minute matches where Killer tries to hook as manny Survivors as possible where being hooked means you die, there's no way to get 12 hooks in 3 minutes so getting hooked means certain death, this puts pressure on the killer to get as manny kills as possible in 3 minutes. When the 3 mins end the round is over and roles switch to another player being the killer of their choosing with the build of their choosing. This gives everyone a chance at killing and surviving multiple times facing multiple killers. The map resets every round so everyone gets the same resources.
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I don't think gen speed is a problem per se, Survivors need an objective since i doubt BHVR would make a different game mode that focused on chases instead. So i think the problem resides in the gymnastics that killers have to go through to accomplish their objective. finding a survivor can be time consuming, Double chasing a survivor for 1 hook is time consuming, getting to a hook might be time consuming then there's the possibility of all this being denied by flashlights or sabo or bodyblocks or pallet saves... time wasted for nothing.
It's not survivors fault that 1 or 2 guys can be cranking gens while killer is failling to apply pressure on gens just like it's not a killers fault if he can't pressure gens if he is chasing 2 or 3 people all the time, alternating hooks and never getting to go after gens, killers objective isn't gen defense it's sacrificing survivors. It's the chase and hooking aspect of killers gameplay that can take too long sometimes and some killers suffer more than others on this aspect.
So either remove gens, remove a huge balance issue and focus the game around chases, speed the whole process up, maybe have all 5 players rotate between roles on fast speed rounds of killing or surviving so everyone experiences both sides and the better they do the more BP they get. This would solve alot of problems in the game and community, namely reduce grind, reduce balance issues, reduce perks cause gen regression perks aren't needed, reduce the gap between SoloQ and SWF since good Solos will save their ass more often. This may offer more room for sandbagging sure but you get your turn as killer to absolutly chase and murder the hell out of that survivor too. We could balance maps better cause we don't need to account for gen location, we can balance killers cause they don't need to have their kit tailored to offer slowdown, they can focus on lethality or chase potential, it would help the community understand both sides better and have a better consensus on what balance changes should be made if bHVR would listen.
Another idea is to keep everything mostly the same but everytime a killer hooks a survivor that survivor gets timmed out and they stay timmed out untill killer gets another hook, this reduces map pressure from survivors, helps Killers that need some set up since they can gain time by removing someone from the game, would reduce the need for gen slowdown perks. This would allow killers to genuinly focus on chasing knowing they can buy time every now and then.