kingcarl2012
kingcarl2012
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@tippy2k2 said:
Something I was thinking about reading posts and whatnot and people saying that they're being paired with people with stupid high prestiges (or going against them) and it made me realize...
I don't think pre-match I've ever even bothered to look at the prestige levels of my opponents. With the Bloodweb system taking forever, I load into a match and immediately go into the bloodweb and start spending like crazy. So I don't ever see what level anyone I am with or against is at...
Currently I just spend BP to spend BP and don't focus on any particular character (basically whoever I'm playing as is the one getting leveled up at the time) as I don't worry all that much about what Prestige I'm at either.
So I'm just curious if I'm the weird one or if others don't even look at Prestige levels
I definitely notice it when its really high, especially if I have had a couple really bad matches against survivors of a skill I shouldnt have been matched with to begin with.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307399#Comment_3307399
While I bluntly do not believe that you are being matched with survivors drastically outside your skill range that often (I believe it's much more likely you're just being matched with cocky survivors that know the basics of looping), to take that argument at face value, a concede button does not address or alleviate the issue. Matchmaking would still have to be fixed either way, and all you'd have achieved with a concede button is more salty players giving up because they had a bad first chase.
Addressing your final point, you're right: there is no difference between a killer conceding and a killer going AFK. Both are bad, both should be criticised, and both should be considered poor sportsmanship.
You are correct when regarding matchmaking, and if matchmaking was fixed, then sure I would be in agreement that a concede button wouldnt be needed.
As to not believing how often I get affected by matchmaking, thats fine for you to say, but this has always been my issue with the game and it goes back to the old rank based matchmaking. It used to be like 1 out of 5-10 games minimum my rank 13-15 killer would get matched against full teams of rank 1 survivors. While its better now than it used to be, when the incentive is 100% on the killer side (which happens alot of the time when I happen to be playing killer), MMR gets thrown out the window in favor of queue times. If I'm jumping on for like an hour and just knocking out a handful of matches its not ussually an issue, but if I am doing a multi hour BP grinding session it can easily come up once an hour, and if I get a couple within a short time, that's a huge hit to my mental fortitude.
So lets say I am doing a 4 hour session and I get 1 in the 1st hour, fine I try and play through that, then I get one near the end of hour 2 which I also try and play through, and another 1 or 2 games later. I know I'm intending to keep playing for a couple more hours and trying to play this 3rd one out is going to frustrate me too much to continue, so I AFK the end of the match out. You consider this poor sportsmanship, which is fine thats your opinion, I consider this preserving my ability to play the game and not punishing myself for the games terrible matchmaking.
It happens often enough that I Don’t DC, due to a few reasons. I don't know how the DC penalty stacks/cools down so the only time I DC is if I am shutting down or changing games.
Personally I hate when a survivor DCS, and screws me over on a challenge, I dont wanna screw over a survivors challenge for escaping or have the game stop in the middle of doing a glyph or something.
Finally I want my BP, its not my fault matchmaking screwed me over, if Im sitting at 8k BP, I earned that I played my best against a team outside my skill to the point that for all intents and purposes the game is over. I'm not having fun, the fact that they are because they know they can bully me and take advantage of the bad matchmaking is Irrelevant.
As to your comment about a killer giving up after one bad chase, like I said it shouldnt be unconditional, and the conditions I suggested would pretty much cover this, you would still have plenty of killers who wanna try to camp out for a kill in the endgame, personally I get no satisfaction out of that, it's barely worth the BP, rarely makes a difference in how you pip and it really only works with certain killers/builds. When your up against decent survivors, especially if you are in endgame with no one on death hook and 99'd exit gates, as a basic killer with no expose, or endgame perks. Heck I've even done it defending a strong 3 gen against 3 good survivors because its boring to play that game where all they do is run away from the gens and if I chase them instead of kicking gens I lose. In a game like that even though there is a chance I can win it isnt fun and I'd rather just move on, the only difference is those survivors dont taunt they finish gens, they might wait at the gate for half the timer but generally those end quickly.
I would even take a 5 min matchmaking ban if it didnt stack with regular DCs, and use that time to spend bloodpoints or play with builds before queuing back up. There is a big difference between having a bad first chase and DCing because 3 gens pop, thats maybe 25% of the total game at that point. Where you can be 5 minutes in 4 gens done having chased multiple people, thats more like 75% of the game at that point. While I wont give up at 25%, I can live with playing 75% and giving up with what little I have earned at that point, and I can be productively spending BP, which is a whole seperate grind of time,instead of waiting for the survivors to let me go and the match to end
I am working on getting all perks on all killers, half my roster has no add ons or general perks because I lost them all putting them to P1 to get them to P3 on the prestige update for perks, so I play them at base. I dont run full slowdown builds I find that boring, I play killers that I suck with like huntress, nurse, trickster (Yes I'm on console so I'm more suceptible to bad tracking, and other techs and gimmicks), I have a solid understanding of the game in general, as well as my skill level, and how the build I'm using works and it's shortcomings.
But maybe I'm wrong and your right, every game is winable until every survivor escapes right.
By that logic every survivor game is winable until your dead, I'm sure you've never given up on hook to give hatch or wanted to give up faster when your whole team is slugged/dead, or when a killer slugs for the 4k.
But then there is this post you made in a thread where someone wanted to be able to bleed out faster. I have bolded a couple of parts of your statement.
Two of the things on your list are worthy of being discussed as problems (and a further third is categorically true, just without the strawman reasoning you tacked on), so that doesn't really help your point all that much, and it's not as though OP is asking for the killer to be unable to slug them- they just want to accept that the killer won and move on. That's hardly being salty or entitled, it's not as though they could do anything to turn the match around.Slugging for the 4K, while obviously fine, is hardly a necessary component of killer gameplay. It's still a win for you if the last guy gets hatch. What exactly makes this topic so absurd it can't be discussed? I wouldn't view it as super necessary myself, but I hardly think it's a case of salty crying. It's not exactly fun to sit on the ground for up to four minutes knowing you've already lost, I can see why someone would want to hasten that along.And to head it off, yes, I play killer more than I play survivor, this take isn't easy to toss out because of bias.
So you're fine with it on one side but not the other, oops your hypocrisy is showing.
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307400#Comment_3307400
It is effective, just not with 2 other randoms lol as they typed.
Dont get me wrong, yes it is helpful, but just nowhere near as effective as OP describes for most groups.
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@WashYourHands said:
Blessing a Hex disarms Haunted Ground (doesn't trigger), and Pentimento (since you're not breaking the totem), and doesn't trigger the "destroyed hex totem" sound and instead plays the "blessed boon totem" sound (since you're not breaking the totem). Remove the ability to bless hex totems altogether instead of trying to find some convoluted solution to keep it in.
Whats your solution for when everyone runs plaything completely making boons unusable.
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Actually it may be alot stronger when action icons get here provided they indicate if a survivor is being chased.
If you see reassurance and then a chase starts you know someone else has to unhook.
If you see it and no chase starts killer is camping do gens.
As to basement there is no issue there generally if you get hooked in basement its your own fault and as long as the unhooker goes in healthy you should be able to at worse force a trade, you can also run in and use reassurance and get hooked and teammates know they have to meet and heal up for a 2 for 1 rescue trade. The only exception to that is Bubba, and if Bubba has someone in the basement, your best just letting them go anyways most of the time.
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My suggestion would be a higher MMR value based in how many are in a SWF but you would need an accurate MMR system for that to be relevant
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@theTARNavsky said:
"Are you seeing the score event stating that you escaped?" - hmm I didn't think I had to escape for this challenge...? Just regular vaults in a chase, no matter if I escape the chase or the match.
Nah, I chose the challenge after doing another one, I didn't restart the game.
Some killers have weird interactions with the chase mechanic and what is considered a chase, for example when wraith cloaks it breaks chase.
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@SilverShamrock said:
Quick question for anyone out there that has more knowledge about this stuff than I do. I’m still relatively new to the game as I started playing regularly back in late July or Early August. Each month, I’ve hit iri 1 in rank without much hassle until now.
I hit iri 4 a few days ago, and hit a wall. I spent seven hours online today, and couldnt manage to gain any pips towards iri 3 at all. I’m not doing anything different than I have been each match; gens, unhooks with heals, totems, chases etc. Yet, it seems like I can’t progress forward regardless of what I do. Example, I had a match earlier where I had at least 7k in 3 of the 4 categories at the end. I didnt escape, and somehow managed to barely hit the safety pip.
Am I doing something wrong? Is there some sort of general guideline you guys go by for each match when you are trying to rank up? I haven’t ran into this issue yet since I started playing. So I’m not sure how to go about correcting it.
The Emblem System, also just referred to as "Emblems", is a Ranking Game Mechanic used to determine a Player's Grade.It was originally introduced with Patch 1.9.4. Before Grades were implemented with Patch 5.2.0, Emblems played an integral role in Dead by Daylight's matchmaking system for ranked Trials, as it determined a Player's Rank and thereby how they would be matched.Since reworking Ranks into Grades, the Emblem System no longer determine one's matchmaking scoring and merely track successfThis is the extremely detailed wiki page
I will give some of the notes here
At Iri rank you need 9 emblem points for saftey pip, 12 points for a single pip, and 15 to double pip.
Bronze is 1 point, silver is 2 points, gold is 3 points, Iridescent is 4 points.
So you need gold for all 4 emblems to single pip and for each Iridescent you can get away with a silver and 2 Iridescent can even cover 1 bronze if your 4th is gold.
Lightbringer Emblem 190 points for Gold
5 points/gen completed for everyone
15 points/gate
20 for dull totem
50 for hex totem
1/second of repair time 100 max/gen
33/gen of other players progress
Some passive points when things happen while you are in chase like someone else cleansing a totem
If you never touch a gen and all 5 get done you will still earn gold on this emblem
If you repair 2 full gens gold is guarenteed as well
Unbroken Emblem
Very simple escape for gold, dont get downed for Iridescent. Silver is surviving 9 min, bronze is surviving 5 min.
Benevolent Emblem 75 points for gold starts at 35 points.
-30 for unsafe unhooks, almost impossible with basekit BT
-10 points per hook but not when you get hooked
+10 points per unhook by anyone
10 points for a heal, not self heal
10 points for taking a Protection Hit while the Killer is carrying another Survivor
10 points for for causing a Survivor to wiggle free because of sabotaging a Hook within 10 metres of the Killer
20 for a safe unhook
30 for causing the killer to drop survivor
Basically 2 safe unhooks will get you gold if no one dies
Each death on hook is a permanent -10 because you cant unhook them
Evader Emblem 560 points for gold
Lotta math on this one but basically win chases, long chases more points.
-10 / hit you take
50 / pallet stun
1/second in the terror radius, modifier for how close you are
Up to 250 points/ second per chase
60+ sec long 250 points/second
45-59 sec gives 125 points/second
30-44 sec gives 60 points/second
15-29 sec gives 30 points/second
This is also modified by killer proximity, and doubled for winning chase and cut in half for losing chase.
Hooe this helps.
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@TOFFU said:
Counter to any perk, any killer, any build.
First you need to unlock a hidden 5th perk slot.
Yes as survivor you can have 5 PERKS.
To do it just download Discord or any other voice comm . After just bring atleast 1 friend.
Congrats you won the game. now you have 5 perks.
What exactly Voice Comm SWF perk gives you??
1.) Full Map aura on killer ( ignores all stealth killer perks ) name : Hey dude he is there
2.) Free save unhook ( High chance to make ppl camp and tunnel you ) name : Hey dude he is gone
3.) Free save genrush ( Greatly impovered by Prove thyself ) name : Hey dudes killer on me genrush that gen
4.) Fast perk reading of killer build
5.) Ez counter to any meta such as Overcharge COB Eruption or PR+DMS . name : Hey dude get of gen
6.) Free hatch . name : hey dude hatch on killer house i have gift
7.) ULTRA DEAD HEARD ( just coordinate body block with Dead Heard cooldown )
8.) ultimate bully opportunity by flashlight , locker stun etc . name : Hey dude i am in that locker . or Hey dude go bully its fun
9.) Full map Hex totems location reading. name : Hey dude i saw hex its there
basicaly your SWF VOICE COMM perk gives you ALL AURA perks in game at same time without any slot in build needed.
How to Counter Voice Comm?
take Bubba for Camping or wait 5 more years for fix ( just allow killer to choose if he waant to play vs SWF )
The fact that you think voice comm is actually as effective as you typed is laughable.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307305#Comment_3307305
That's the thing- those aren't lost games, you're making it a self-fulfilling prophecy by acting like they are. Are you more likely to lose? Sure, but it's by no means an impossible-odds longshot that the survivors make enough key mistakes for you to turn it around either.
If you say that you can have fun without the win, also, then surely there's no reason to call for a concede button? Just play the match out and have fun with it.
Maybe in a world with actual balanced matchmaking but that isnt this game, I can get matched with survivors way outside my skill level, where it doesnt matter what mistakes they make and it will end as a 0-2 hook 0 kill game, frankly I am not wasting my time dragging that out any longer than I have to.
I had a game earlier today in fact playing huntress, who I am terrible with, got 1 hook early on a David trying to finish a gen during my hit cooldown, I took turns chasing everyone trying to pressure gens, all for nothing 4 gens done and 1 hook 3 gens spread out that I can't patrol, survivors were better than me and knew it.
Had a kill survivors tome challenge which I already know thats not happening, still need to throw 1000 hatchets and get downs from 24m+ away so I found a locker with some distance and started just chucking at the gate switch to practice aim, all the while survivors are spam vaulting and trying to annoy me into chasing them which didnt work because when I go afk to end a match I always take my headset off, because thats what they always do.
Thankfully David decided to finish the last gen while the other 3 were taunting at me and even gave me a down trying to do the gate between hatchets, bless his heart I made no move to pick him up in the hopes maybe someone might follow his example which no one did, which is fine and they picked him up and he left right away while the other 3 sat there in the exit gate for the full timer.
Now you will say " oh you could have turned it around" or whatever you want along those lines, but I had already played out this scenario several times today, even if I get someone there is no way I'm gonna be able to defend the hook and get someone out against 3 bodyblocking survivors.
I can have fun in a 0 kill game as long as I am still getting hits downs and some hooks, but running around chasing people I cant hit thats not fun its frustrating, especially when some survivors will hold you in that match for 15+ minutes to punish you for not letting them bully you around if you give up.
No thanks, give me a concede button so I can take my measly 8k BP, depip, and 0k MMR drop, and move on.
I'm not saying it should be unconditional, but 4 gens done less than 4 total hooks no one on death hook, I see no reason why the killer should have to play that out if they dont want to. The game doesnt even have to end, replace the killer with a husk in the basement corner, notify the survivors and let them decide if they want to escape instantly or finish out the match, so the survivors who want to can also move on at that point, and ones who want to can stay to finish if they want.
Objectively there is no difference on the survivor side whether the killer gives up and is afk or leaves the match.
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@jesterkind said:
I feel like the skilled and experienced players are the ones that know you're not guaranteed to lose in those scenarios, and know that - realistically - any game can be turned around. Certainly, if you're in a position where it'd be drastically unlikely for you to make a comeback, it's never within the first few minutes of spawning in that it becomes obvious.
Besides, winning isn't everything. If the idea of playing out a match you think you'll lose is inherently, always going to make you miserable... I kind of feel like that's a you thing, not a problem the game needs to fix.
In the first few minutes of a match I can easily tell whether I have any chance in a game or not, 3 gens popped and I have chased multiple survivors without getting a down or hit, I have a decent idea of their skill and I know mine completely, and know the match is a lost cause.
@Dream_Whisper said:
If you play for the simplicity of just wanting to win all the time, then you soon learn that the fun of the game is not really all that fun. Sometimes it is fun to lose or be outplayed by actually skilled and awesome killer player. Plus.... have a concede button option should regardless penalized you, since you are literally throwing the game as you see it as loss in your book. If anything, the players that shouldn't be penalized less are the ones that stay in the match, despite the deaths and DC of their teammates. They should get rewarded for being Chad player and surviving as long as possible (even if they eventually died or miracle get lucky to escape in hatch.)
Too both of you it isnt about the win its about the fun, I can have fun in 4-8 hook 0 kill game
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@gnehehe said:
Devs decided to kill stealth gameplay year after year.
Always consider:
- LP at start, denying early stealth in sub-optimal area (e.g., outer border in Pale Rose)
- BBQ/S:FoR denying - more or less - stealth in the middle of game
- NWH after gen kick, denying stealth around generators (pretty huge radius)
- ...
This gameplay is dead unless:
- you already know the killer loadout (usually, lots of slowdowns)
- or you play Distorsion perk
You forgot about lockers all but lethal pursuer can be beat by lockers as well or hiding your aura behind a gen if you know the general direction the killer is in.
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@JohnnyB87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306552#Comment_3306552
It's not up to the survivor to leave the locker, their goal is to survive, the killers goal is to kill so the Killer is 100% taking game hostage. Get a clue, you entitled players and this so called Mandy really need to learn basic definitions of gaming terms. Facts are facts, if she's a dev, she as poor as the rest of em when it comes to keeping the game playable. It's dying and it's not cause of the players 100.
Hate to break it to you but if the survivor never leaves the locker eventually the match ends and the survivor dies so actually the killer is still killing them, just by waiting for them to leave the locker.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
Hey all,
I'm now working on a challenge in tome three called Savagery. I have to hit survivors successfully 15 times with a hatchet. Honestly, I'm not very good at Huntress. I have downloaded a crosshair app to help make aiming her hatchets a little easier. What are the best perks, add-ons, maps and strategies for completing this challenge?
Thanks!
For tracking and aiming at survivors who are zig zagging, I find it easier on controller to strafe more than look side to side but this may depend on your sensitivity options.
Edit. You also dont always have to fully charge your hatchet it will fly farther and faster but with less arc.
If you run a build that forces predropping pallets like enduring spirit fury, you can respect pallets and often get an easy hit.
If they have an item in hand it disapppears when they commit to a vault, so you can also get an easy hit at windows and pallets that way while they are locked in the vault animation.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306895#Comment_3306895
Yeah I agree, I don't really care what they do I am just don't want to have to waste my time being slugged for 4 minutes and would rather give them the sacrifice points and I will move on to a match I can actually play (rather than being stuck on the ground).
This would be fine too as long as for all intents and purposes for both bp and pip score it counts as me hooking them then I have no issue with them leaving and the game spawning hatch, slugging for the 4k is an essential part of the killer adept alot of the time.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306430#Comment_3306430
Yeah exactly.
I totally understand slugging as a way to create pressure but this slugging for the 4k thing is crazy and has to stop. Let the killer and the last survivor fight out RNG rather than having some poor sod bleeding out on the ground unable to do anything
The slugged survivor in a slugging for the 4k situation should be allowed to concede and move on, however when they do both remaining parties would be notified and the slug remains in the game as a husk and the game proceeds to its natural conclusion with bleedout timer finishing out normally leaving the killer still able to complete the 4k if they get the other survivor.
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@JosiahJack1 said:
Hey just a feature request. In the next update would you be able to buff the perk "Left Behind" by making it so that you can open hatch without a key because currently the perk is only useful if you end up being the last survivor and then becomes useless if the killer closes the hatch. I think everyone would appreciate this and would be a fun addition (and more commonly used perk) for the game. (:
Counter proposal make it so if the killer closes hatch a guarenteed purple key spawns at a random spot on the map and you get to see its aura so its not 100% a free escape.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301470#Comment_3301470
I mean, what they personally should have done is not add the 10 seconds basekit, and instead add a 15% penalty when more than 2 gens are being worked on at the same time(same reduction if 2 people work on 1 gen). That would have been healthier.
As for what killers need basekit, well, no, they dont need a deterrent for survivors tunneling gens, as they have multiple basekit mechanics for that already: 1. patrolling gens 2. chasing people off gens. 3. hooking people for pressure. 4. slugging people for pressure. 5. killing someone. 6. keeping people injured. 7. creating deadzones around gens. 8. depends on the killer power, but thats something that indirectly pressures survivors consistently. If you are a Bubba with Tinkerer, I cant spend time looking at my gen because you are most definitely going to start revving when you're close enough to hit me and when its most likely too late for me to react. It its a Trapper, I need to know trap placements or I might be toast.
What killers need is something like Fire-Up. Something that increases the power of killers based on how many gens are done other than just 3-genning. People really underestimate the power that Fire-Up brings if it were basekit, flashlight saves get harder the more gens are done, pallets are removed even faster the longer it goes on(on top of the 10% basekit already), window vaults are viable with the majority of killers after just 3 gens being done, its worth to kick gens before going into chase more often because its faster, the only thing that Fire-Up would be missing, is movementspeed while carrying a survivor. This makes late game tunneling a lot easier, and gives 0 need to tunnel early on anyway.
Survivors need protection in the early game that they lose as the game continues, killers need an increase in power the further survivors progress. This might make 4 survivors surviving untill 1 gen is remaining more common, but it also means that you can still kill at least 3 survivors if you play your cards right. Giving killers more power early game defeats the purpose of punishing tunneling early game.
As for what killers need basekit, well, no, they dont need a deterrent for survivors tunneling gens, as they have multiple basekit mechanics for that already: 1. patrolling gens 2. chasing people off gens. 3. hooking people for pressure. 4. slugging people for pressure. 5. killing someone. 6. keeping people injured. 7. creating deadzones around gens. 8. depends on the killer power, but thats something that indirectly pressures survivors consistently. If you are a Bubba with Tinkerer, I cant spend time looking at my gen because you are most definitely going to start revving when you're close enough to hit me and when its most likely too late for me to react. It its a Trapper, I need to know trap placements or I might be toast.Your list here is actually pretty amusing, points 1 and 2 are essentially the same thing, point 5 would be tunnelling which is the issue you are complaining about, point 6 is almost not an option considering how common COH is, and point 8 is really only relevant on certain maps/certain gens/certain killers/certain perks.
Lists however are fun, so lets talk about the defenses survivors already have against tunneling.
1. Basekit borrowed time
2. Additional anti-tunnel perks
3. Not unhooking right in front of the killer
4. Actually waiting for the killer to leave before unhooking.
5. If you unhook in front of the killer place yourself between the killer and unhooked survivor.
6. Dont unhook and run away, follow and hang back a bit so they killer may think its just you they are chasing, and actually take aggro.
7. Also follow to set up a potential pallet save or body block if the killer does down the unhooked survivor.
8. Heal the person you unhook.
9.If the person is on death hook and your not give yourself up as a slug or take a hook for the team to allow them more time to get away.
10. Unhooked person should not be body blocking for the person who unhooks them, that is giving permission to tunnel.
11. Finish gens before the killer can tunnel someone out.
As to your suggestion of a basekit DS, there is no way that you could possibly balance that, and its funny because they really tried, removing it in endgame and disabling on conspicuous actions and it was still unbalanced and had to be nerfed. If DS had actually only been usable for anti tunneling purposes, then maybe, but seeing as for years survivors were using it offensively against both tunneling and non tunneling killers it just cant happen.
There is one other problem with that idea and that is when it comes into play, almost all anti tunnel perks have the same issue, they kick in once the tunnel has already started and doesn't take into account Intent. Punishing tunneling when it happens is all well and good, but instead Imagine if we just made tunneling a lot harder, here is my Idea.
1. Basekit borrowed time stays.
2. Basekit Guardian (Perk would extend just like borrowed time)
3. Basekit 10 sec OTR (Perk would extend to full length)
4. 10 sec Quick and quiet no cooldown
5. 10 sec Calm Spirit
This right here puts the survivor speed at 4.68 m/s making them faster than the killer for 10 seconds so the killer has trouble keeping up and making up the ground if they tank the hit, they leave no blood or scratchmarks and make no sound and have their aura and screams blocked and dont set off crows, eliminating all tracking but visual tracking. The quick and quiet can be used, as an example, to fast vault for lithe, or jump into shack and while line of sight is broken jump in a locker or back out the window and get away.
These changes would do 2 main things.
A. Makes it alot harder tunnel.
B. Eliminates alot of incidental tunneling due to a killer accidentally following the wrong survivor.
This would be a pretty big buff and since it would cut down alot on tunneling, you are going to need to give the killer a little bit back, and my recommendation here is pretty simple give the killer Info on the other 3 survivors, since we ate blocking all info on the unhooked survivor.
1. 4 seconds of killer instinct on all 3 survivors
2. Unblockable aura reading for 6 seconds on the survivor who unhooks.
Thus will further deincentivise tunneling by helping fixate the killer on other survivors, and act as a bit of additional distraction for the survivor off the hook to get away.
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@Timtom24 said:
Hello dear Behaviour team,
Michael Myers seriously needs a rework, his power fits him very well but needs to get looked at again, when you use his mirror addon, you shouldnt lose the bloodlust trait. it slows him down to much so you cant catch up with the survivors. they can loop you 6+ times around before you even get close enough to hit them. Its not only on pallet spots but also in the open field, as michael you will take an insane amount of time just to get close to the survivor, gen pressure is another problem because he is too slow in diabolic 1 so you cant do some pressure. you need luck to have survivors who dont watch for their surroundings or else you may be able to get one or two hooks at most.
This isnt really a great reason to say Myers needs a rework.
I mean you specifically chose to run an add on that locks you in evil within 1 at 4.2 m/s which is a pretty fair penalty for being undectable the whole match and being able to see survivors through walls at the touch of a button. The Idea with that add on is to pair it with an indoor map offering with lots of line of sight blockers to maximize its effectiveness.
Also almost every killer has a meme add on that reduces their power like the chainsaw add ons that make them not instadown.
It can also be compensated for with 1 of his own perks, Play with your food.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305559#Comment_3305559
Yeah, and 5 seconds of incapacitation is plenty. Heck, I wouldnt even mind that anyone within 8-12 meters of a kicked generator gets 5 seconds of incapacitation. It would give killers 5 seconds of reaching a hook knowing none of the kicked gens would be popped. That way, doesnt matter if there are comms or not.
But more than 5 seconds is just awful gameplay.
Personally i would be fine with 10-12 sec as that would allow you to get set up for an unhook or to a different gen, but 5 sec does nothing for regressin because that regression is gone in 1 second, so you could scap the incapacitation but you would then need a 20 sec gen block like merciless storm and have the block only apply to gens being worked on when the down occurs.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306436#Comment_3306436
Yeah I agree
I am no fan of this guy but I think he is right on here regardless of what I think of the person
I really disagree with him and most people on this.
I recently went through and did all the adepts and I'm admittedly a lower/mid mmr killer and I understand it being harder at higher MMR, however other than Pig (9 matches, one of my mains, higher MMR) I was able to get all of them in 5 games or less. Sure on some killers you have to moderate how you use their power a bit but you can also do things to manipulate the emblem system in your favor for those situations by slugging to make up for insta down powers to get extra hits in and stuff like that.
I see zero issue with the difficulty of these achievements, there is nothing wrong with difficult achievements. Personally I think the bigger issue is that survivor adepts are basically participation trophies. A better example would be the generalist/power moves achievement, 8 escapes while repairing the equivalent of 1 full gen, would make them alot more interesting. Most of the achievements in DBD are already very easy having some that fall on the more difficult side is good overall.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I absolutely despise the killer but I want the achievement so I can put him away and never play him again.
However I am finding his power very lacklustre and with nothing to slow gens I am really struggling to complete this adept.
Any suggestions on how to do this please?!
Wait until rank reset ( lower requirement), dont do it when incentive is 100% on either side (better chance of accurate matchmaking survivors), and try to play at a time when population is high (NA central for me early evening from 7pm to 10 pm tends to have more lower mmr survivors playing) I pretty much just went pure M1 with him and it took 3 matches
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@ViperTheCharon said:
So, I completely reworked coup de grace with eruption and tweaked oppression.
With coup de grace, I made it similiar to the current one, but it only consumes, when it is a successful lunge attack and doesn't stack with other instances or itself.
Eruption now blocks the generator, when survivor tries to repair it, after you kicked it.
Oppression is similiar to current Call of Brine or Overcharge, it makes generators regress at 200%, applies the base 2.5% progression loss to those 3 generators and missing difficult skill check makes lose additional 5% of generator's progression.
Im sorry but you need to go back to the drawing board and rethink alot of these.
Coup de grace, you wnet and boosted to an insane level, and then went back and kept the worst part of it where its only useful 5 times a match and you have to be losing to use it.
Oppression, you changed so minorly that it was still borderline useless, and are now boosting it to be overpowered with COB and overcharge, instead of just eliminating/minimizing the cooldown, which is all it needs
Eruption, your original change was to give it a bigger cooldown, doing nothing to the perk, and even after receiving the math to make it the same but less obnoxious to survivors, which is the problem with the perk, you strip all the regression and make it a gen blocking perk which is pretty much still the incapacitation except longer.
Taking a cursory glance through several other ones you are making tons of unnecessary tweaks, Awakened awareness does not need a lingering effect, nowhere to hide is fine and doesnt need a boost, so many of your changes are either too far or not enough, and some seem to be just so you can say there was a change.
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@Jungles23 said:
As someone that rage Googles quite often, I've noticed that whenever you try to access posts from Google that were made before the update it just sends you to the homepage of the forum. It's been like this for a while. I'll list a few as an example:
- https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2208002
- https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/251969/so-apparently-wraith-becomes-viable-and-people-are-already-complaining/p2
- https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/150026/afk-wraiths-farming-iridecent-shards/p3
- https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/347281/solo-queue-is-destined-to-be-terrible
Thats because the old forum site is gone just search the title in the new forum search menu
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@Natinaaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305767#Comment_3305767
I was doing a gen, or when i was taking someone out of the hook
Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling the game?
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@KerJuice said:
It’s poor sportsmanship. Too many killers wouldn’t finish their matches if they were losing. That’s not an ok thing, and it’s not a healthy way of thinking. This is not “conceding,” it’s being a poor sport and a sore loser (IMO).
Maybe give the killer an option to concede via in game menu and at least “X” amount of survivors would have to accept the concession in order for it to go through? Just spitballing an idea.
You cant put the control on the survivors. when a killer goes afk and stands in a corner the survivors already dont accept the surrender very easily.
As it is when you are clearly outmatched and going to lose and give up, and go afk till the gens are done, all most of them wanna do is spam vault to make your headphone explode and even when you open the gate for them they still wanna wait out the whole timer as well. If it werent for dc's stacking up it would be better to dc than be stuck there afk for 5 to 20 minutes.
You can have a concede option, have it available when there is 1 gen or less remaining, the killer can decide to give up and leave the match by going to the exit gate, and the game can spawn a husk in the corner of the basement, and the survivors can vote on whether they wanna do last gen and finish the game out or not and anyone who wants to can stay to complete their glyph or cleanse totems or whatever without holding the kiler in the game.
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@Sojourner said:
I have determined that one of the biggest problems in this game for killers is premade survivor groups. I know when I am fighting them. Some perks don't matter. Coordination is literally 1000% better, and the only way to win is to play as scummy as you possibly can and even then its not a sure thing if they are competent. I have much more fun and even matches with random groups. This may literally ruin the game for me if it keeps up. If half the game is a sort of strange abuse simulator I don't see myself playing it long term despite initial impressions. Despite this I've made it to Irridium II or whatever, but the game is no longer fun. Maybe its week days, in which case I'll just stop playing on week days entirely.
It would be nice if there was 'no pre-made group' public ques that counted just as much as the public ques with pre-made groups.
There is also a tedious tendency to run into people who make a mockery of fair play. I don't mean mean tactics. I mean out and out exploits which ideally should be fixed. A few examples:
*Crawling against a wall as a survivor near a window makes it hard to pick them up if they keep crawling against the wall because the ability to select them or the to vault over the window becomes difficult.
*Spinning on the ground back and forth rapidly seems to also mess up targeting.
Further suggestions include:
*Que by prestige. It is no fun going up against someone with prestige 25+ or especially not 30+. I can beat them but I got to fight ugly and take ever advantage I can which I think is fun for no one. Would be nice if people were sorted by prestige as well as tier of play if possible. (A lot of them also fight ugly and some of my worst experiences in the game were vs what I can only imagine were pre-made groups on voice coms with these veterans. Endless body blocking and flash lighting. Felt more almost more like I was being hunted than the other way around. Often I've been able to turn it around but its not very fun when it feels more like a really strange tag pvp game than a horror game)
*Getting rid of suggestions for how to beat various Killers or randomizing them. When playing as a survivor I notice its always the one you are about to face and this deepens the divide in what I've learned is a strong bias towards the survivors.
I am hoping to get my friend group into this game, and despite that I do think that people should be able to que with the option to only que against solo que. Its just that bad, and I can't recommend the game in good faith with such experiences growing more and more common.
It only gives you tips related to the specific killer the first few times you face them after that you just get generic tips
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@Predated said:
Eruption really has 3 issues:
- Its really powerful against solo survivors(the incapacitation doesnt really apply in a full squad on comms)
- Its not really that powerful against SWF(unless stacked with other perks)
- Really powerful in 3-gens, especially when stacked with Jolt/Surge
So, here's a slight rework that I have in mind for it:
- Eruption now does 0%(a nerf) regression, but increases by 5% for each unique generator that is kicked before its procced(so if you manage to kick all 7 gens, that would be up to 35% regression on all gens, and ofcourse kicking 1 gen would mean its going to regress by 5%).
- Incapacitation only lasts 5 seconds
- No more cooldown.
I think this would give it a lot more viability for early game pressure, while forcing survivors to not spread out as much, because the more spread out survivors are, the more potential they give the perk. With generally 3 gens being available, this means the potential for 15% reduction is always available, and if survivors spread out on 3-gens, they make the game worse, but if they only focus on 1, the killer never needs to check any other.
Much simpler fix raise base regression to 13% cut incapacitated by half does the exact same thing it does now but doesnt feel terrible.
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@ViperTheCharon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305119#Comment_3305119
I changed the agitation for the reason that the tier 3 of it is only useful (looking at the carrying speed).
I could imagined that the "bright white" scratch marks would be pure white with a black outline IMO.
I think I would agree on the bloodhound with you, it would be a bit ridiculous with STBFL.
Duration of Shadowborn could be decreased down to 8 just like you said.
How I nerfed Enduring? Right now it only affects pallet stuns and it's based on percentages. The way I wanted to present is that, instead of 3 second stun head on, it's 2 second stun of head on, a pallet save only 2 seconds instead of 3, there would be still current 1 second pallet stun and I made it that it wouldn't work when survivor escapes killer grasp, so it wouldn't hurt DS or the pure luck that you wiggled out. I seriously don't know how you see it as a nerf to Enduring.
Maybe i would make tinkerer as it is right now that it works only once, you can really jumpscare with it right now. Also I have ideas for lengthening undetectable from a universal perk (you probably know which one).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305130#Comment_3305130
Well I really had no idea how to change eruption, so i slapped there a cooldown of eruption that was on PTB.
Wdym that i left alone the oppression cooldown?
Well the coup de grace change that you proposed would be still underwhelming since it's only 20% of extra lunge distance per generator and tokens are capped by each tier, because you need to lose a game to get the 100% extra lunge.
All levels of Agitation are useful but tier 3 is the only one that makes the killer faster than a survivor is fine, the top end certainly doesnt need a buff it is plenty powerful.
As for enduring you dropped the effect from 50% to 1 sec, 50% is 1.5 sec thats a direct nerf, and your doing it in a way it is worse against the most common stun in the game as a way to nerf head on which doesnt need a nerf anyways as its already not a super strong perk.
Ok you lowered oppressions cooldown a little but not enough for it to be an effective perk It should just apply every time you kick a gen, however cutting the cooldown to 30 sec max would be better, as it only applies base regression anyways.
For eruption and coup de grace, i will help you with the math
Coup de grace, you suggest a max lunge increase of 166%.
The standard lunge is 0.8 sec at 6.9 m/s this means a basic lunge is about 5.5 meters. Keep in mind all these numbers get larger if you are hasted including with bloodlust so these arent even maxed out numbers
A tier 3 myers with 3 stacks of play with your food and blood lust 3 has a base lunge of 1.4 sec at 8.7 m/s for a total distance of 12 meters
Currently the perk increases 80% or .64 sec. This makes the lunge 1.4 sec at 6.9m/s which creates a 9.5 meter lunge
The max lunge you suggest would be 166% or 1.3 sec. This lunge would be 2.1 sec at 6.9 m/s which is a 14.5 meter lunge which is absolutely ridiculous.
Just for fun using our super broken Myers lunge 2.7 sec at 8.7m/s would be a 23 meter lunge distance
Being able to do the current coup de grace all the time with 0 conditions would already be ridiculously overpowered. Maybe slap a cooldown on it with the current 80% and scrap the tokens all together put the cool down at 180/150/120, so it'll work once per chase kinda thing.
Eruption is much easier but for math i will use a round 24 sec of incapacitated.
Current 10% instant regression and at .25 charges per second while incapacitated you get 6% over those 24 seconds if nobody else touches the gen totalling 16%
If you slap an extra 3% instant regression to 13% and cut the incapacitated in half to 12 seconds you would still get 16% regression but it would feel much less terrible for survivors essentially fixing the perk without altering its strength.
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You increased the cooldown on eruption while leaving the incapacitate alone which does next to nothing to it because the killer has to rekick gens and get a down before it activates again anyways, the fix for this perk is less incapacitated and more base regression.
The cool down on oppresion is the only issue with that perk and you left it alone.
While I dont hate your idea with coup de grace 165% lunges would be insane needs to be reworked for a lower cap say 20% per token and have the progression set max tokens 3/4/5.
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@Batman781 said:
what happen if i get rescued during endgame by some with guardian and i have hope? do the natual rescue speed boost, hope, guardian, the haste boon, ect all stack?
most importantly does guardian stack with the default rescue speed boost?
Yep guardian makes it so people you unhook are at 18% haste putting you at 4.72 m/s fatser than any killers base movemenmt speed
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Ok so I will admit I only got through hillbilly, but already we have issues.
Agitation is perfectly fine where it is and needs no changes.
Predator, I have no issue with making scratch marks stay longer but changing the color is completely uneccesary, white scratch marks on eyrie of crows or ormond or farm maps would be abysmal.
Bloodhound, absolutely not, bloodlust is fine and needs no buff and you can already get a better effect with Save the best for last, and stacking the two would be ridiculous.
Shadowborn, only issue here is 10 seconds is unnecessary back it down to 7 or 8 to keep in line with other aura perks, so if the killer runs lethal it only burns 1 distortion token.
Enduring, perfectly fine as it is does not need to be nerfed.
Tinkerer, once per gen is fine especially in the gen kick meta we are in, if anything you could maybe lengthen the undetectable for slower killers
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304233#Comment_3304233
Everything you said is wrong.
- Achievements are not achievements because they are hard. They are achievements because the player did something the developers wanted to note, difficult has 0 input.
- It's not unfair to the people who did it before, unless they are, as I said before, so selfish and entitled that they think "Everyone should have to do what I did."
- Achievements are ALWAYS 'just writing that holds nothing' because it's a freaking video game.
- They are in no way robbed, but keep crying about how unfair it'd be for Adepts to be fixed because some people did it while they were difficult. 🙄
Couple of corrections for you,
1. Whilst partially true as they are goals set by the devolpers, in many cases difficulty is a factor in the value of an achievement, in fact there are even achievement hunting sites dedicated to revaluing achievements based on their rarity and how many people unlock specific achiements.
2. This factors off the first point but making an achievement easier does change its value, also and this admittedly is more of a Sony Issue, this can create achievements that differ depending on platform,
Take for example the skilled huntress achievement on xbox/steam it requires downing 20 survivors from more than 24m away, while on Playstation it requires downing 100 survivors, because sony doesnt allow changes to be made unless the achievements are actually impossible to get.
3. This may be your interpretation of achievements, but for many people achievements are a key part of the gaming exerience, and do hold value both internally and externally as a badge of honor. If they mean nothing as you say then why does it matter if they are left alone and not changed?
4. The only issue I have with this statement is where you suggest killer adepts are broken. If they were actually broken and not achievable, then there would be a need to fix them. Making them easier for the sake of them being easier if it was actually needed probably would have been done long ago but obviously the devs are comfortable with the level of difficulty as a new one comes out with every killer.
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@pooPyrus said:
There are too many tomb challenges which make too little sense. No tomb challenge should result in you throwing the game, ie; hide within the killers terror radius 360 seconds, cleanse 8 totems, hit 6 survivors while exposed during the endgame trial. Dbd should have challenges which correlate with the game itself. Having challenges which hinder the player, and are counterintuitive to victory, should be excised from future tombs.
You dont really have to throw the game for many tome challenges, some of the ones that have the requirement of beng done in a single trial maybe, but most others can be equipped and just done through normal gameplay.
Throw on any multi level map offering and just do gens and you can get 360 sec in the terror radius out of chase in like 2 or 3 games pretty easy.
Cleanse 1 or 2 totems per match you'll get 8 in 4-6 matches.
6 survivors while exposed in endgame, just run NOED and thus one shouldnt take more than a few matches either.
The real problem is just people being impatient and throwing instead of letting the challenges come to them
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@pooPyrus said:
Devour is an unfun, poorly designed perk which either guarantees a win for killer, or does absolutely nothing. The idea that a perk can either win you a game single-handedly, or be completely useless, is a flawed idea of perk design. There have been many games where devour hope has carried me to victory while in others the perk is completely useless. Such a strong perk should not have so much rng dependence. Whether you are playing killer or survivor, devour seems unfair and unrewarding, as the only prerequisite is not to camp. Such anti camping rewards should be a fundamental part of dbd design philosophy, not as an addendum to bad perk.
It sounds like you think devour should just be made basekit.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303198#Comment_3303198
Because you queued up for a match. Don’t queue up if you can’t handle it.
- The penalty can be something like being Broken or some other debuff for 20s for every failed self-unhook attempt once unhooked, regardless of by self or others. Still a sizable penalty, but doesn’t allow suicide on hook.
- A "feeling of tension" isn’t good enough reason to let a mechanic used to suicide on hook stay.
- Bad teammates is not a valid or acceptable excuse to suicide. No.
- Give Up should only be at 1 active or less. Because 2 active means they can’t get hatch anyways.
- People SHOULD be forced to play out the match they queued up for.
1. If they are trying to get out of the game being broken isnt a debuff.
2. They designed the mechanic so you can get out of the game because sometimes there is no point in continuing or when you are being griefed by teammates, while missing skill checks does makes you die faster, you only instantly die if you dont try to hit them at all.
3. It very much is if I run the killer for a full minute and then spend a full minute on hook and dont get rescued and no gens get completed, the game is basically over and we are gonna lose and there really isnt any reason for me to sit on hook for another minute. Bad teamates are one of the most legitimate reasons to let yourself go on hook.
4. At 1 remaining there doesnt need to be a give up option, at that point if you are hooked your dead, at 2 active is where you need it to make hatch spawn.
5. Again, there is a point in the match where there is no point in continuing, and both sides should have a concede option.
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@Olokun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304397#Comment_3304397
just giving ideas,
1- maybe or maybe not for serials d/c when you see your BPS going down , it can affect your minds .
2- its at devs discretion to choose.
1. What if you already spent your BP, do you go negative and if so how far? That also still doesnt do anything if they dont care about the BP to begin with any more than the mental effect of seeing the depip.
2. The devs have already chosen, its the way it is now. Since you are suggesting a change, I'm curious as to how much thought you've put into it, and how you think it would be fair to work.
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@Campingbubba said:
Sometimes i want to use low tier killers like the shape but i cant because im irridescent. So i think adding an unranked mode would be a great thing.
Custom matches
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@Olokun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304201#Comment_3304201
they can , instead losing a pip take BPS from acount , like 30k for suicides early
Couple things,
1. Your punishment has the same issue the current punishment has which is, some people really wont care about it.
2. You would need to come up with very specific criteria as to when said punishment would apply.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304199#Comment_3304199
OMG! Is that what happened with old Ruin? If so, I’m glad I wasn’t around then. Lol
Yep 5% regression on good skill checks and 0% bonus progression on great skill checks. Made the instructions add on for toolboxes really useful.
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@Olokun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304089#Comment_3304089
it's exactly what i feel atm , the pip loss should be removed for everyone.
While I agree that there should be some conditions added for safety pips to cover early game dc's and hook suicides, and the criteria being loosened a bit in gold/iridescent ranks. Depips do hold value, they are currently the only punishment for early game hook suicides, and gives players a reason to keep playing in a losing match, instead of just giving up everytime they are losing.
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@Emelyne said:
Ps4....
And as i said i know about the checks, but since i came back to the game today, everytime i check, the gen still explode.
Its like if there was a perk where if we dont precisely check on the exact spot like we need to do sometimes, but now its like that All the time so i cant even play.
Was there a new perk added for killers where survivors not only have to check, but to check the super precise little bar thats within the check??
If so is there a survivor perk to counter it???
Because its permanent.
I gtg sleep right now but ill be checking back here tommorrow.
Thank you very much.
Weirdly enough it almost sounds like really old ruin, if I'm understanding the description properly.
When the skill check happens if hit the skill check in the great zone, it's fine, but if you hit it in the good zone the gen explodes and gets regression?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303653#Comment_3303653
End game build for killer is game changer, giving 2nd chance to killers (technically, since it means they're weaker in mid match) to get kill with Noed Rancor BW.
End game build for survivor isnt
- If Im able to reach to end game, I dont need those perks to win.
- If those perks help me to escape as Im last stand in end game, I could use something else to give a chance to my teammates to escape with me.
- If Im not the last stand or die mid match, I had no perk in play.
The problems with killer endgame builds are very similar.
1. I can get a 4k before engame making those perks irrelevant and I could have run a different build to let me win earlier.
2. I can run those perks but if I am up against 4 survivors it can amount to nothing because while they cant open gates from NWO, and I get 1 down and hook from NOED, they can cleanse NOED and get the rescue and bodyblock their way to the gates and escape without being able to get bloodwarden to activate, or abandon the 1 and the 3 still get out.
Now where the problem comes in is survivors dont have to run an end game build, the last survivor no matter what gets a 50/50 chance at escaping regardless of what they have done throughout the match.
Compare that to the killer experience of the gens getting finished with 4 survivors alive and no one on hook without an endgame build.
First off to even get into that position you are obviously dealing with survivors at a higher skill level than you, your chances of getting a down before the gates get done is already small and depending on what killler you are it can be almost impossible to secure a kill against the 3 remaining survivors. The killer doesnt get any mechanic to give them a better chance in this scenario.
I'm actually more surprised that more killers dont AFK towards the end of matches like these especially when you factor in what that one kill is actually worth totally isnt worth the effort involved
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@Emelyne said:
Mobile/SmartPhone, but i juuust saw the + now im so mad i kept looking for something at the top for like 5+ minutes LOL
Lol no worries glad ya found it
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@Emelyne said:
I have to type this here as a reply because i have NO IDEA on how to start/post a new post to ask a question.
In General Discussion it doesnt show anywhere how to create a post. ???????
Help. Thank you
Are you on browser or mobile?
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Let me be clear: the purpose of this thread is to share information and inform people. Agree or disagree all you want. I'm saying this off the bat because Sally is such a hot topic now.
Attack Types
We all know the two attack types: Basic Attacks and Special Attacks. Basic attacks benefit from Basic Attack perks and the Exposed status effect, but Special Attacks do not. Typically, Special Attacks are only modified by add-ons of their particular killer, such as Bubba possessing add-ons to inflict mangled/broken with his chainsaw.
What many do not know is that there is a third attack type. This is a sub group of a basic attack that I've aptly chosen to call "Sub Basic Attacks." McLean described Sub Basic Attacks to me as "basic attacks with additional properties."
An example of a sub basic attack would be Legion's Frenzy. The lunge speed/range calculations and such as are all the same as a basic attack, but it has the property of only inflicting Deep Wound. That's why it used to be Basic but was changed to Special.
While not outright confirmed, I believe that Demo's Shred and Pig's Ambush are also examples of a sub basic attack. My evidence is their interaction with Coup De Grace during Twins' original PTB, having an extended attack despite both being special attacks (Pig's ambush also formerly being Basic).
Nurse
As you might have guessed, Nurse's attack is a sub-basic attack and one that tries to emulate a basic attack as closely as possible.
Differences
How does Nurse's attack differ?
Lunge speed is calculated as 4.6 x 1.5 for a speed of 6.9m/s for the duration of the lunge. This lasts for 0.3 seconds. Formerly, 4.4 killers (and Nurse) had shorter lunge ranges due to being slower than 4.6, but this was later changed. Now, they all briefly become 4.6 for the duration of the lunge so they all have the same range unless they're moving faster than 4.6, obviously.
Blink attacks don't do that. Instead, it keeps her slower speed of 3.85m/s and multiplies it by 1.6, so 3.85 x 1.6 for 6.16m/s for a duration of 0.3 seconds. Yes, the unique property is slower speed/shorter range.
And that's it. Really. It was designed to emulate a basic attack and that's the only difference I could find. Even the hitbox (from what I could find) is the same, believe it or not.
Forgetting one?
In patch 3.4.0, BHVR went back and changed Pig's and Legion's attacks from Basic Attacks to Special Attacks. Curiously, they left Nurse untouched. Was this an accident? Did they forget her? No, this is a conscious decision. But why? Why do her attacks stay basic? I asked McLean, and he explained it to me.
Source
https://clips.twitch.tv/BreakableCharmingSmoothieMVGame-JcPXoLCSXDvC8Xtu
Reason One: Inability to chase normally
Nurse cannot chase without her blinks. Period.
Huntress, while relying on her hatchets, will have times she needs to brute force a loop and/or M1. At the very least, she has a choice. Nurse does not. She's the only killer that is completely reliant on her power.
As such, to make her attacks Special would be to make a killer who functionally cannot basic attack. I'm willing to bet that led to a lot of dev philosophical discussions of whether or not they are/should be okay with a killer unable to basic attack, and ultimately decided no.
Reason Two: Little difference
As I said before, there's only one real difference between blinks and basic attacks.
Now, you could make the argument of, "she goes through walls. That ain't special."
Right you are, but then that raises questions for Hag that teleports or Slinger that literally puts you into Deep Wound. See reason 3 below
If we say, "Just make Nurse the exception..." The point of any change to Nurse should be to bring her further in line with other killers. Making her more of an exception to anything just further alienates her from them, which makes the game as a whole harder to balance since you have essentially different games being played.
Reason Three: What is as basic attack?
How do you decide what is/isn't a basic attack?
Property-wise, Nurse's attacks basically are basic attacks. If we say, "Any difference is too much difference" then we need to look at not only Slinger, but also the likes of Myers whose T1 lunge is nonexistent and T3 is longer (0.4-sec speed burst duration vs 0.3-sec).
If we say it's too closely connected to her power, where does this leave Hag, Spirit, or maybe even Wraith?
Should it be case by case? But what does that mean for future killers? How do you even deem is something should/shouldn't be a basic attack?
It opens up a can of worms that the devs want to leave closed for right now. It might change, or it might not. Time will only tell.
TL;DR
Nurse's attacks aren't really basic, they're sub-basic, which is an odd middle ground between Basic and Special. Changing it not raises a lot of questions about her and other killers, and the whole ordeal is extremely complicated. We can only wait and see how things may change.
The way I see it and I think the fairest it could be would be to make blink attacks that travel through a solid object special attacks and attacks after the 2nd blink as well.
If the nurse just blinks to someone in open space without going through a floor/wall/pallet/etc. I see no reason why that shouldn't be a basic attack.
If however that blink takes her through an obstacle that she would not be able to pass through normally it is completely reasonable for that attack to not be a basic attack.
This would need to receive some allowances that would make sense, partly in terms of her being harder to aim on console, but mostly also for doors, like if less than half of her touches wall while going through a door or just going past the outer edge of a loop I'd be fine with that.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303934#Comment_3303934
Why are you so offended with my suggestion? I read the first half where you said you were wanting to learn a new killer but you can’t properly learn because of the “Obvious SWF” and “Genrush Squad” survivors you faced.
I will ask again, why not go into a custom match with bots so that you can… learn a new killer?
He actually mentioned that exact fact if you read his whole post
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
I don't play survivor very much, but the few times I do, the hatch is a huge relief--it lets me know that in the not-so-unlikely chance that my team is a total flop, I still have a fighting chance. I play killer much more often, though, and I don't think there's any sort of similar consolation prize for killers. Would it be necessary for killers to have one? What would a killer hatch look like?
The way that I see a killer hatch working would be if all 4 survivors are alive when the first one tries to run out the gate there is a 50/50 chance that the endgame plays out normally.
The other side of the 50/50 would reset the EGC timer, all doors that are open remain open, all survivors gain No Mither (broken but can pick themselves up), all survivors not downed or hooked teleport to the center of the map, there would also be 10 sec of bloodwarden to allow the killer a chance to pick up any downed survivors in the exit gate area and downed survivors recovery progress would be reset to 50% if they were above that so they cant just immediately pick themselves up.
At this point they can choose to go for rescues or just escape, the killer can guard the hook/ door they were at or try to ambush at the other door.
This eliminates the current issue for most killers of getting a hit at the hook, the unhook happening, the hooked survivor blocks with BT, and the others block while they get to the 99ed exit gates and everyone gets out and the killer cant do crap about it
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
Developers, please understand the lack of logic here.
Survivor Adept
- Escape the Trial with all three of the Survivor's personal perks.
- Escaping the Trial includes one of the following three available methods:
- Escape through the Exit Gate.
- Escape through the Hatch.
- Escape via Killer disconnection.
- Escaping does not include performing any action that progresses the game. This is trivial and easy to do since you don't need to do any Generators or unhook/heal Survivors to achieve this.
Killer Adept
- Get a Merciless Victory with all three of the Killer's personal perks.
- Getting a Merciless Victory includes performing all of the following actions:
- Hook all Survivors at least 9 times in the game.
- Chase and hit Survivors at least 15 times in the game total.
- Prevent Generators from progressing past a certain point or keep the Exit Gates from opening.
- Prevent a Survivor from escaping the Trial.
- Use your Power in an efficient and effective way.
- The following things will also ruin the ability to get Merciless Victory:
- Using any Power, Perk or Add-On that allows you to instantly down a Survivor.
- If any Survivor decides to disconnect from the Trial, especially if they have not been hooked.
Devs, please lower the Killer Adept to be Get a Brutal Victory with the Killer. It shouldn't take so much effort for Killers to get these achievements when Survivors have a piss easy time to achieve it.
It's completely unjustified how difficult this is compared to the Survivor adept and it should have been changed when these achievements first released.
Your data is slightly flawed as you can do it much easier than the criteria you listed by simply waiting for rank reset and doing them in ash/bronze rank, where you only need either 2 gold and 2 iridescent, or even 1 silver and 3 iridescent.
Also you can use instadown powers in moderation and still achieve them even in higher ranks as once one survivor is out you can make up for your instadowns by slugging and letting people get picked up.
Why is it that every achievement in the game has to be a participation trophy, why dont we go the opposite way and make the survivor adept achievememts harder so they are actually an achievement.
Survivor adept achievements should require 1 completed gen, 1 unhook, and escaping the match. Problem solved.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303224#Comment_3303224
I'm sorry but did you even read what you wrote, lol.I'd like it, but I understand there are complications that would make implementing such a system very difficult.
not to mention the psychological stress factor of hitting a breaking point where each screw up creates more screw ups until you break a controller, keyboard, moniter, mouse, hand, wall, etc. If anything having a concede option is more important as a killer, especially as many survivors like to draw things out as long as possible when a killer tries to give up.Well this goes to the psychology of the game. I don't get how people find the killer roll stressful, though I know some do. I've played against plenty of survivors who have outmatched me, even the bully squads not trying to do gens, and I've never felt helpless. Even if you know you aren't going to win, there is always the chance to get one (until the very, very end).
Survivor though, frequently there is a feeling of this game is pointless, let's get to the next one.
See and I disagree if you've been playing the match for lets say 5 minutes and you have 1 hook 3 downs total and 4 gens done with nothing to boost your endgame, your chances of getting one kill are extremely low.
Because even if you get a down and a hook on the 1 survivor you already hooked, very few killers are actually gonna be able to hold that hook from the 3 other survivors or be able to get a down and hook with all 4 running out and bodyblocking for each other, 90% of the time in that situation the killer is playing for nothing, and in the 10% of the time they actually get a kill, they are still gonna get a depip anyways, so why would I even play for the one kill and then get crapped on with gg ez, nice tunnel, way to camp messages, no thank you let me concede and bop out power the gates and let the survuvors get out.
At least as survivor all you have to do is hide and survive to be the last and you have at the very least a 50/50 chance at hatch, and then another 50/50 that you can get the door if hatch is closed. They actually still have a chance in a losing game. Plus survivors already have the option to yeet themselves on hook and get out anyways.
Also in terms of value a survivor escape is worth 7k BP, 2-3 bloodweb nodes, likely 2. What dies the killer get for all that crap just to get 1 kill, 2k BP, just enough to get 1 brown add on, oh yeah sign me up for that.