jesterkind
jesterkind
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3142593#Comment_3142593
Why should anyone stop using it? It's reliable, and gets people off gens. Besides, the people running to the corner of the map to self-care are still doing so, only 15% slower.
To shake up the meta, the entire point of the update.
@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3142593#Comment_3142593
There's no valid replacement for Self Care in solo queue. Solo queue players are severely restricted in the number of perk slots they can use and ever other healing perk highly favors using a second perk slot. CoH almost doesn't work without Small Game or a map. Same for Inner Strength, plus with Inner Strength, you are handicapped by another player destroying totems. Finally, Pharmacy really needs Ace in the Hole. You can run them without, but there's been games where I can't find a totem to bless, or someone has already plundered a chest.
If there was another single slot healing perk to replace it, it wouldn't matter, but Self Care nerf hurts solo-queue by a lot.
Prior to the nerf, using Self-Care on its own was not a viable self-healing candidate in solo queue, and there were plenty of far more viable options. Using Self-Care with a medkit was mostly okay, and that's been changed, but even that was already basically on par with other self-healing options.
This weird myth that Self-Care on its own was even acceptably good, let alone the most viable tool for solo queue, is really bizarre to me. Spending that much time healing yourself isn't giving you value, it's a noob trap. If you want a single perk slot, you're going to struggle - as you would've before, since there were no good single slot self heal options - but even then there are still options if you're willing to think about it. Maybe Streetwise or Built to Last would pair well with a good medkit, or maybe you spend the time to actually memorise totem spawns (no shade, I haven't either!) so that CoH can be a good call, maybe paired with Botany to get some decent speeds on healing everyone, not just yourself.
Frankly, the Self-Care nerf might have helped solo queue by making it even more apparent that Self-Care is not a good healing option. Even if not, the nerf did not hurt solo queue, period.
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My build recently has been Off The Record/Botany Knowledge/Circle of Healing/Kindred, which I've been having some moderate success with. Botany and CoH play really nicely together, leaving you in a good spot for healing yourself and a good spot for providing healing to the team, whereas OTR and Kindred have obvious utility.
Yours looks pretty solid, though! Prove Thyself is definitely shaping up to be a meta perk, it's very good.
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I feel like those maps could just be shrunk instead of split up, to be fair.
RPD has more points of interest since it was designed for an entirely different, exploration-heavy game. Mother's Dwelling and Shelter Woods don't have that trait, they're just big maps.
If I recall, they have already done this with some maps? I think the Swamp maps used to be way bigger, and they just shrunk those down. I'd love to see that happen again.
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It's an intended change- the perk used to give information and regression, but that was too much, so now it just gives the regression.
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If they reverted the nerf to Self Care, why would anyone stop using it?
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141867#Comment_3141867
For sure, with a caveat - the devs did mention during the last MMR testing and rework that they are planning to probably tweak MMR to treat the survivors as a team versus as individuals for purposes of going up or down. So for example if 3-4 survivors escape then all of their MMRs go up, if 0-1 escape they all go down, and 2 is a draw, with how much they go up or down dependent on the relative average MMR of the survivor group versus the MMR of the killer. That way a survivor who, for example, keeps a killer busy in chase the whole match so everybody else can finish the gens and escape actually goes up in rating to face tougher killers versus faces even easier killers to be chased by next time.
I’m hoping they eventually follow through on that adjustment to MMR, I really do think one of the main flaws in DbD is its semi-cooperative design so anything that moves away from that philosophy is a good change in my book!
Yeah, that's definitely one of the main gaps this particular system has, so that caveat is definitely worth mentioning.
Overall, though, winrate as a proxy for performance is a tried-and-tested way of setting up MMR systems.
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If those things matter, they will lead to you escaping or getting kills more often.
Since MMR only looks at your overall performance across multiple games, winrate is a reliable proxy for that kind of information, because if you're making those plays correctly they'll be making your winrate higher.
(Side note, multiple other games also use a winrate-only system, it's not just DBD.)
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Honestly, I think they'd be a really nice inclusion- personally I'd mute the colours a little bit and make them look a bit more grubby and torn, but even just straight translations would be fantastic.
I'd buy the Huntress one, no questions asked.
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It's pretty clear that they didn't consider it a nerf, for one.
Which isn't even that insane considering that it's clearly now supposed to fill a different role. It's easier to get, but you have to use it pretty much in the same chase it activates or you'll have to really go out of your way, that doesn't seem substantially weaker to me. It's not like MoM was a good perk before, after all.
Even if it is a huge downgrade, there's a difference between a perk being overhauled and a perk being nerfed, even if the overhauled perk ends up being weaker.
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That would be far, far weaker than the current Botany, though.
Current Botany is a genuinely very good perk, making it far more situational by having it primarily be a counter to one status effect isn't that much of an improvement imo.
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I mean, it's just an escape challenge, solo queue isn't literally unwinnable.
There's nothing really wrong with these?
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I tend to view map offerings as a signal that we're both trying our hardest to win. Not necessarily playing nastily, but where I might've been nice and ignored someone who ran into me accidentally post-unhook in other trials, I'll capitalise on that mistake more if the team played a map offering. Ditto for contesting unhooks.
It's not, like, retribution or punishment or whatever. It's just that if you're gonna use all your available tools to try and win, I'll answer that by doing the same! Sometimes those trials are even quite fun, honestly.
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Killer queues haven't been horrendous for me personally, but they're definitely a bit longer at certain times.
Once you get a game, though, you'll find killer in a pretty nice spot. Just make sure to read all your perk descriptions in case one of them changed recently, haha- don't bring Ruin, for instance.
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Oooh, I like this. This'd also serve as a nice sideways nerf to Circle of Healing without impacting the other three- they're all ones you want the killer nearby to get full value from, to varying amounts, so the killer knowing where it is wouldn't be as big of a deal.
Definitely something that could be tested.
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I'm absolutely gonna buy it, I want all three characters!
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Only a mild yes. From a grind perspective, the dev's solution is better (though it needs an increase in BP gain to grease the wheels imo), but from a pure design perspective I don't like that perk tiers force every perk to have something that scales.
I don't mind that they're still around, considering they function within the new grind reduction system, but I would've ditched them years ago if I were in charge.
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Breakdown is underrated in general, especially on some maps with horrible hook spawns.
I have seen some survivors running Saboteur, but I basically never see Breakdown.
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I agree.
The changes made to the grind DID help and the grind IS lessened by a noticeable amount now, and the core remaining issue is that BP gains aren't enough. Just giving people more bloodpoints after every match would help this new system shine and function smoothly for everyone, even moreso than it already does.
This could also be achieved with more avenues for bloodpoints, like making daily challenges cycle indefinitely or giving more of them, but sometimes simpler is better.
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Throwing my own "because I enjoy it" into the pile.
Outside of people leaving a lot (which is admittedly very annoying, but seems to be passing now thank god), my solo queue experience got better after the most recent patch, and the same goes for my killer experience. I'm enjoying playing this game and think it's heading in a very healthy direction, no self-hate here.
The game's not actually bad, gang. You're just frustrated with it.
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While I do think DS should be a little stronger than it is, it's important to remember that it is no longer the only anti-tunnel tool and should be something you weigh upsides and downsides for. It doesn't need to be that strong to combat tunnelling on its own anymore.
A shorter stun is fine, but an extra second gives you time to hit the ground first. In addition, to curb certain killer's tunnelling potential through DS, I think Nurse (and maybe Blight?) should lose all her tokens + have to recharge them when stunned. Not just by DS, but by any stun source.
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Good map design is tricky to pin down, but we can narrow the edges of what it could be by defining bad map design a little. Maps like Mother's Dwelling and Father Campbell's Chapel are bad because they're simply too large, giving killers who don't have mobility an upward hill to struggle against completely independent of how well they or their opponents play, for example, and on the survivor side maps that spawn with too few resources to use are considered bad. Even for the survivors, though, large maps can be a detriment- if a teammate is hooked all the way across the map, getting to them in time for a save becomes a concern.
Gideon's is a bad map not because of its overall layout and design, which are actually quite good, but because it has far too many pallets and far too many of them are safe or godlike. Current RPD is a bad map because it's way too big, its hallways are way too cramped, and it's a nightmare maze to navigate even when you can see auras (all which were fixed on the PTB, thank god!).
So, through extrapolation, I'd say "good map design" is a map that's towards the middling size range, has a distribution of resources that both allows survivors to make plays without having too many for the killer to reasonably deal with, and that is at least moderately easy to navigate- at least after the first few times you've played on it.
You're gonna bump up against certain killers preferring certain maps - what's good for Ghostface tends to be terrible for Hillbilly, for instance - but overall I think those facets would be generally considered the marker of a good map.
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Oh good, it isn't just me- I was wondering what the heck was going on there.
Would also definitely love for official acknowledgement, even if there's no ETA for a fix.
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Buckle Up is bad, but it's not Dark Theory bad.
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I could see two changes.
1: Disabling in the endgame.
2: Something to stop it being abused to grief one survivor by not letting them die, not sure exactly what that'd look like though. Letting that survivor disable Reassurance would be a good decision for that imo.
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@AnchorTea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3136649#Comment_3136649
With how miserable soloq has been you'd think they're killer sided
To be fair, soloq is only more miserable recently because of people giving up and DCing/suiciding, which isn't exactly BHVR's fault.
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@Plsfix369 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3136737#Comment_3136737
Did you forget that it used to stack with Medkits and Botany knowledge, making healing anywhere easy and so much faster before COH dropped? High MMR players use it even if 100% healing from COH is also available, just because we don't like crutches.
Just because it isn't the best, doesn't mean no one finds it useful. There are a lot of people who rely on self-care in order to have fun in SoloQ.
Also Iron will isn't just a stealth perk, its a chase perk, it makes playing injured easier even if the SoloQ Team sucks.
I know people found it useful, but the people who relied on it need to adjust. It was never a particularly fantastic tool and there are still better tools available than old Self-Care. The entire point was to make people use different perks, after all.
As for Iron Will, exactly. Iron Will does not affect the lack of information or coordination that comes with solo queue, it's just a good perk and it remains a good perk. You don't need it, and you can still use it almost as effectively if you want to. It's not a solo queue perk, it's just a good survivor perk.
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Self-Care was never the best self healing perk for solo queue, and Iron Will is just a stealth perk so it doesn't have anything to do with solo queue specifically at all.
Also, who's "we"? Iron Will is in a perfectly decent spot, it's very usable but requires picking your build more thoughtfully, I don't think it needs to be buffed at all. Self-Care isn't very useful right now, but it's in timeout after being one of the most-run survivor perks for six straight years, so I imagine they won't buff it for a while. They shouldn't buff it for a while, anyway.
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@Cybil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3136661#Comment_3136661
New botany is incredibly strong. I have no idea why so many people despised the change. If anything the quicker med-kit draining made it synergize more with Built To Last.
Heck, you don't even need that- I run a yellow medkit with the green + yellow charge addons sometimes, and you get two (+ a bit left over) incredibly quick heals out of that, with no perks propping it up.
New Botany is a really good perk.
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I'm really enjoying new Botany Knowledge, especially paired with CoH. Two slots dedicated to self-healing, sure, but both also help the team on their own, so it's a pleasantly strong pairing.
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I think I'm up to about 39 or so? It'd be higher if my internet weren't being pouty and refusing to work sometimes, haha.
I have done all the challenges on the first two pages, at least. Except for the three Jonah-centric ones, I don't own Jonah so I can't do those lol.
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Bug fixes are all that I feel comfortable predicting, he could go either way.
He is incredibly strong when he works, so maybe a few light nerfs would actually be called for. Who knows!
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Even if they don't fix the awful god pallets in the main hall, I'd take the new RPD over the old RPD any day of the week.
Old RPD is awful. New RPD is annoying but playable.
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It'd definitely help for camping scenarios, and survivors definitely need more BP avenues in general, but I feel like it won't do much to stop the suiciding on hook that comes from people being salty and just wanting out of that game as quickly as possible?
Still, it'd be a reduction, so I'm all for it.
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I'm not sure why you would compare those two, considering they don't play all that similarly whatsoever?
Nemesis is an anti-loop killer, and Wesker is actively shut down by looping around dropped pallets, they play pretty significantly differently to one another. Wesker definitely doesn't have better anti-loop because he doesn't have any anti-loop, not in a way that's useful outside of very specific structures.
Basically all they have in common is an infection mechanic, which means we should be including Plague in this comparison chat lol
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Might've been the Onryo's power - if the Condemned meter (the little segmented bar on your portrait icon) fills up all the way, she gets to mini-mori you like Pyramid Head.
You make that meter go back down by running to the highlighted TV and interacting with it.
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@NerfedFreddy said:
Survivors only have two items - medkits and flashlights, everything else is worthless
Toolboxes are extremely useful, it's mostly Maps and Keys that have extremely niche uses.
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To be fair, he can't do both of those at once, which is the same as every other killer that can break pallets. If he hits the survivor, the pallet stays up, and if he breaks the pallet the survivor doesn't get hit.
Nemesis is strong, but he's not overpowered.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132026#Comment_3132026
Wesker being able to sprint isn't one to one and that's what I'm asking for. Nemesis simply having the spring and rocket launcher isn't one to one but that's all I want. I don't get where I'm saying he needs to have a tentacle too pull you in while having infinite rocket launcher bullets and can sprint and instead own you when he feels like it. That's clearly not what I'm asking for. I don't know where everyone is getting this.
Sprint is one accurate way to adapt Wesker's powerset. Another, equally accurate way to adapt Wesker's powerset would be to give him a series of short range dashes that move at a very fast speed, since that's one of the major ways he seems to use his speed in the games to begin with.
As for Nemesis being able to sprint, I went over that. The same applies - it's one accurate way, not the only accurate way - and also, the tentacle is the more unique aspect of him. It's better to have him be accurate and unique than accurate and boring and repetitive, I'm sure you'd agree.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3132026#Comment_3132026
Thank you. And if I may add on to this point.
You mentioned they need to fit TONALLY within Dbd. And that's the reason Nemesis doesn't have his rocket launcher or Wesker his guns. Such technology doesn't fit the tone of dbd.
Agreed. Honestly, Wesker already tests this game's tone a little, giving him guns would almost certainly be too far.
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Accuracy is one important thing. Other important things are making sure their ability is fun to use and to play against, making sure they fit tonally within DBD, and making sure they aren't too repetitive or boring.
I think, though I cannot prove it, that the last point there is why Nemesis doesn't sprint even though it's the only other thing he does that'd fit within DBD. Lots of killers have a sprint/dash/hurtle ability, so it'd be kind of repetitive- leaning into his tentacle and adding an infection mechanic to evoke RE in general was more unique, and since it isn't inaccurate it's totally fine.
Besides, from what I've seen, Wesker seems shockingly accurate? His main thing in RE5 seems to be super speed, like, dashing and dodging to and fro. In DBD... he has quick dashes that look very similar, on top of a fun new mechanic that plays off his strength. Similarly, he has Uroborus tentacles to play off his Uroborus form-- the infection is the only thing that isn't accurate.
I think your main issue is that you think the only way to be accurate is to translate things one-to-one. There are other forms of accuracy and faithfulness to the source material, like evoking it with similar mechanics and similar themes. Wesker fits that perfectly- drawing straight from the source for the broad shape of his power, for his voicelines, for his mori, and for his appearance, but giving them new specifics that make him fit within DBD even more smoothly.
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Quite simple, really; Huntress was my first main when I picked the game up for the first time, and I still like her quite a lot.
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It's not the end of fixing Nurse, but it's a great first step. All for it.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131715#Comment_3131715
The difference is the difference between a 3 man out and a 4 man out.
Which doesn't really make any difference at all towards powering the exit gates to begin with. Seems like the absolute most that could be said is that Reassurance could cancel at the endgame, because using it to keep someone on hook before then is useless unless the killer is camping.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131648#Comment_3131648
Reassurance means a single survivor can add up to 3 minutes to any hook stage no questions asked. Doesnt matter if you are near the hook or on the other side of the map. If some one is on death hook and the rest of the team is doing fine, its 100% better to use reassurance to keep the guy on the hook than to save them and risk getting them sacrificed.
Reassurance needs a few conditions to not be batshit insane.
I have to disagree. What's the functional difference for your team if a guy is hanging indefinitely on a hook instead of being sacrificed? They're not doing generators or running the killer either way, it's not actually helping your team at all- it's not even saving the time of running over to unhook them, since you have to run up close to them to use Reassurance to begin with.
Reassurance is only going to be useful if the killer is camping. If they're not, you're shooting yourself in the foot by trying to keep using it.
@ Topic, only two killers could use Thana reliably at all before and as stated, Reassurance is only useful if you're camping. Killer's not only fine, it's in a pretty good spot right now, those two things aren't going to be huge problems.
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The aura reading isn't actually that bad if you bring very specific addons, the Blood Amber is a criminally underrated key addon. That being said, keys are definitely a lot less useful.
Personally, I think keys should show you teammate auras by default, and have the addons either increase the range, or show teammates doing specific actions outside the range. Something of a solo-queue item, I think that'd be a good direction to go with them.
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Not required, but definitely very useful in solo queue.
Though, I've found that Nancy's Situational Awareness is an interesting "poor man's" replacement for Kindred. If you're on a generator, you get auras when someone's downed, and it has the benefit of telling your teammates where your gen is so they at least theoretically can avoid running the killer right to you. Pretty alright for if you've not gotten Kindred in the bloodweb yet lmao
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These are pretty nuclear nerfs to the perks intended function just to fix a potential way of griefing players with it.
Wouldn't it be simpler to just give the hooked survivor the opportunity to disable it? That way it's ability to hard punish camping doesn't need to be nerfed just in case it's used in a negative way.
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Surprised so many people are saying Myers when he's pretty clearly got a bunch of advantages over other killers if you know what you're doing. He's certainly weaker than he needs to be, but he's not the weakest by a long shot. It's also not Sadako, lol.
My pick for the weakest is Clown. Trapper is a good contender, but at least he's got the capability to snowball and has some solid addons for punishing survivors with-- compare to Clown, who has two bottles that both serve the same major purpose (shortening some chases), while being completely countered by predropped pallets and having absolutely no snowball capacity. I love him dearly but he's still the weakest, he's just pretty reliable + consistent - to say nothing of how fun he is, obviously. Some of his addons do help his lacklustre power, but he's still only good at one thing and that one thing is still very easily countered.
Again, though, I love Clown, and I actually think it's a good sign that the weakest killer is as dependable as Clown. He's still perfectly playable, after all!
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These aren't really solo queue improvements so much as improved basekit anti-tunnel tools, is the thing. I'm not against them (though I personally think the Haste percentage should be increased, not the duration for both effects), but they're not gonna do anything to help with solo queue's major issues.
As for basekit DS, ehh... it wouldn't be the worst idea, but I honestly think buffing the DS stun timer is a better solution. Survivors have more tools to combat tunnelling now than they did before, I don't think they really need anything beyond improving what they currently have for the basekit solutions. The best state the game could be in for anti-tunnel is to have the basekit solution give you an edge, and then to have a variety of tools they can bring if they want to be even more safe and sure.
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I'm definitely happy with it.
I never used it before and I'm not about to start now, but from the killer side I can definitely see that it's still a decent perk that can still give pretty decent value, while requiring a lot more skill and timing to use. I'm never mad if I swing into a Dead Hard now, because I know some skill went into it and I know it can't be used purely for distance.
It's far healthier now, I definitely approve. There may be room for buffing it slightly later in the future, but for now it's in a good spot.