illusion
illusion
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2490834#Comment_2490834
I know all of this but after three days of playing you'd expect some level of evening out. It aint happening.
I'm curious what parameters determine SBMM. At the moment it appears arbitrary.
It takes more time than that to accumulate data, and find where you belong, and where everyone else belongs in relation to you. Everybody was starting from zero, and not starting at the same time. If it takes everything into consideration, including maps and killers that the survivors have gone against, it could take a while before it can establish where everyone belongs.
From a very simplistic standpoint, we can look at flipping a coin. If you flip a coin, you could flip tails 10 times in a row. Would we then assume that the coin has a 100% chance to come up tails? No. More data, and testing is needed. Ten more time, 9 tails, one head. Still more data needed. It is only as we approach extremely high numbers that we can get an accurate establishment of 50/50. Now imagine a much more complex system with a lot more factors that they have to work from, and compare it to others with equally as many factors. It is going to take time.
They are not going to tell us what parameters it is using, but I would assume that it would be based on chase times, and whether you win the chase, hits, downs, hooks. Ideally it would also consider maps, and perks used, though I doubt perks will be a factor. Obviously, it will factor in the killer you are using. But, it also factors the survivor stats. They could have a lot of bad games in a row because they were paired with potato survivors. Or they could be really good, but did not start playing on the day the new system was implemented, so they have a lower score, or they have just not played that many games in that time. It's not going to magically work out in just a few days.
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The new skill based system has nothing to do with the emblem system and the ranks you see at the end of the game. Those are meaningless. We don't know how they are determining "skill", but it is safe to assume that it will take some time before everyone drops into the positions they belong and we start seeing more balanced games. It's not going to happen after a small number of games. There will be a lot of ups and downs for a while.
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It's not just bad for killers, it is also bad for the survivors they leave behind. They screw over their teammates just to get an easy escape. They really need to go.
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If you just got the game, and are getting 1-2 kills per game, you are doing fine. Don't expect to have the constant 4k's like the twitch streamers you likely have been watching, they have been playing for years.
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First, it is a bad idea to teleport to the box, they instantly solve it. Terrible mechanic that should be changed. Second, if you let them loop you around a shack for 4 gens, that is on you. If you don't know when to break off the chase, that is not the problem of the killer.
Not the worst killer, but definitely needs some tweaks to get out of mid tier.
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@Purgatorian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2490643#Comment_2490643
Which I find ridiculous in this type of horror game. It should be one escaping like the final girl/guy trope in horror movies.
That is great for dramatic effect in movies, but not for fun and balanced game play.
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You realize that ranks have zero to do with the MMR system now? They are meaningless. Also, in a balanced game, you are not meant to get 4k's every game. Survivors are meant to be able to escape. An average of 2 kills per game would likely be the average they are going for.
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Some people don't seem to realize that it will take time to work reliably. So far it has been working well for me. I imagine that at the high tiers, the game imbalances will really start to show, and the devs will, hopefully, get things balanced properly.
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First, that would make the survivors unbalanced, as some have useless perks. Those survivors would never get played, and would stop people from buying them.
Second, it gives too much information to the other side. If a player is playing a specific survivor, you know that they will be using that survivors good perks.
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Recycling: Yes
Keys: interaction sure, but best to just remove them. Unfair for killers, and unfair for survivor teammates they leave behind. It's just a cheap mechanic that allows survivors to escape when they haven't earned it.
Bots would be great. Other games have done that. Not sure how they would work with the skill based MMR system, though. At low levels they would likely play better than some survivors. At high levels, they would not be nearly as effective as a regular survivor. You couldn't really give the killer full points for a bot kill, at that level, but they would need to get something for the effort.
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The ranks mean nothing. It has zero to do with the skill of the players involved. Plus the new system was just implemented. It is going to take a while before it has enough data on every player, to place them with/against players of the same skill level.
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@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2488322#Comment_2488322
Using that logic they should be 100 percent fixing the base code and optimization since it is necessary to improve the game right?
Look at what they are doing though sbmm, cosmetics, adding more chapters, etc. all unnecessary when there are still bugs galore (some which haven't been touched in numerous patches).
No, SBMM is needed for the health of the game. If it properly ranks players based on their skill, that won't change no matter what other changes they make. Cosmetics are done by graphic artists, not game developers, so no impact. And, as I understand it, they will not be adding any new maps until they get the rest fixed. Also, the SBMM system should help them better identify the core problems, and fix them.
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You are still here, and still playing the game, so it must be fun. Proven. Any game I find to not be fun, I leave and don't look back. Since you can't change the way other people play, that is something you will have to learn to live with, or move on to something else. Just think of it as an added challenge.
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@BadMrFrosty said:
Trapper, it's not even a fair fight. Amanda has to overcome every advantage he has in order to put a trap on his head. He's bigger and stronger, which matters quite a bit. His weapon gives him a range advantage over her blade, and he's likely got a much higher pain tolerance.
But he starts the match with a trap already on his head. That means he would have to run around to the boxes to try and remove it. She could wait and just see if he fails and his head explodes, without even confronting him. Or she could attack him while he has his hands in one of the boxes. Game over.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2488070#Comment_2488070
Right, so that in short is an indirect: You suck and the survivors you go against suck.
Okay man, as you say. I do not think he is weak at all
So I point out that your original post was essentially a "git gud" comment, and you try to turn it around on me. Nice try. Nowhere did I say you suck, or imply it. I never mentioned your gameplay at all, so don't try to redirect the conversation. In fact, I was assuming that you were a top tier player. Otherwise, how could you claim he was a top tier killer?
That said, those were not top tier survivors you were going against and/or they were confused by the new killer's mechanics. That's not saying they suck, either. It's not an insult to not be top tier. I already said that I was a middling survivor, so while I would have done better than some of those players, I would not be a good candidate to prove your point with, either.
The videos did not prove your point that he is a top tier killer, just good in the situation that you played in. With the new MMR system in place, we will not see balanced teams for a while. When survivors run right to you, or right across your path, so that you can hit them without even going out of your way, that is not even close to top tier game play.
It's not even that PH sucks. His mechanics are good, he just needs some tweaks. The Lament, alone can be very affective at keeping teams busy, and worse if it goes active.
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Not sure what you are getting at. Even a question like "what are the worst perks" would end up with people naming meta perks of the side they don't play, in the general forum. Thankfully, there is a "Ask the Community" forum where questions get answered all the time.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2488380#Comment_2488380
He isn't super hard to pick up as you can take it slow with what you're using your power for and play like an m1 killer with mobility as you slowly get more confident with your power you can use it more and more.
However, master of blight is one the hardest things in the game. People usually say nurse is the hardest killer because as a noob you will get decimated with her until your start to gain a semblance of skill at which point she quickly becomes the strongest in the game.
Blight has less of a floor since he can fall back to regular killer tactics but true mastery of his power is MUCH harder than nurse.
You need nurse's tracking skill
You need belly's map knowledge/awareness
You need hag's game sense
And you need the mechanical precision of huntress.
That sounds fine. I'm not looking to be a top rank player with him, over night (if ever). As long as he is playable for me early on, I'm good with it taking some time to master him. My biggest concern was that his control would need to be so precise that he would be unplayable for me. That doesn't sound like the case.
Thanks for the info. :)
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@TacitusKilgore said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2488380#Comment_2488380
He's surprisingly easy to pick up, just hard to master. As long as you have a decent knowledge of the map you're playing and plan your rushes (AKA thinking ahead as to where you can rush after bouncing). He moves predictably, and at a consistent speed so you'll never feel unable to control him. The only times he ever feels hard to play is when he slides off stuff.
Thanks. Surprisingly easy to pick up sounds about my speed. :) That being the case, mastering should just be a matter of time and gaining understanding. I think I will give him a shot.
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If the system works as it should, all of the sweaty players will rise to higher ranks, and it will be more relaxed at lower and mid ranks, but since the system was just put into place, it might be rough for a while until that happens. Some people don't seem to get that it will take time before the new MMR systems will give them balanced matches. Everyone was starting from zero, good and bad players, alike. It has to establish a baseline for each player, and that takes time when starting from scratch.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
Depends on your platform. He's far more difficult to play on console because of the limited sensitivity options.
I play on PC, so that seems like a positive. However, his fast movement along with his need to bounce off of things, makes me think I will just be pinballing around and be unable to hit survivors. How difficult is he to control compared to other killers? I'm not good with Billy, for example.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2487708#Comment_2487708
This goes under the assumption that everybody who plays killer is going to downright lie in order to get stronger. Thats bullshit, everybody knows its bullshit. But you guys keep playing this "them vs us" thing falling into the bullshit over and over again. It isn't just killers noticing things are broken, survivors make the same posts, again...nothing changes. And it isn't like they never had any data to go off of. AT THE HIGHEST RANKS community members have noticed whats busted, and whats not for years....but they don't listen to our posts. They'd rather go look at an excel spread sheet than listen to people who've put thousands of hours in.
We have big long form discussions about this on and off the forums. Again, it took them ages to even acknowledge that the collision issue with freddy even existed. And even longer to re-do his kit....WHEN WE KNEW IT WAS POSSIBLE FROM DAY 1. "Hey when is wraith gonna get any love" I could pull up at least 100 of those posts from before his rework. The twins, again FROM ALL RANKS BOTH SURVIVOR AND KILLER knew her kit was gonna be trash and need fixing out of the gate. We sat there complaining about infinites as soon as it was found out you could exploit them. Took them years to fix that and then bandaid some BS with entity blockers....
Gen speeds getting wild at top ranks? Meh still an issue and still ignored.
Killers being skill capped instead of releasing to be viable at red ranks? Nope still ignored and killers still come out Trash tier and people inhale dubious amounts of copium to say they aren't but then you throw that same person into an all red match and they fold. "Oh damn I didn't know it was this break neck up here"
Survivors having perks and flashlights that either bug out or don't work? Oh here's BHVR's idea lets just make flashlights wobble...for what tho?
Killers still having add ons that literally do nothing beneficial? Crickets.
The nerfing of killers who can actually perform at red ranks instead of buffing the weak ones? Crickets.
Separating Queues and buffing solo survivor so that you're not required to be in an SWF to perform at red ranks? Crickets, again been complaining about SWF vs solo for years, not a damn thing changes and solo survivor is about the worst its ever been.
But yeah keep thinking posts are irrelevant, you'd be a good employee at BHVR since they don't pay attention to whats going on either. Better yet a job at Turtle Rock since they stayed tonedeaf so long they had to shut down Evolve. Gonna come back 3 months from now after they've "analyzed the data" to figure out "oh damn....our top players were right...woops"
Wow! It's post like that that make them ignore feedback.
Nothing I said goes under any assumption that everyone that plays killer is going to lie. I have no idea how you got that from my post, but it makes my point. Your post was 100% killer focused, and so you attack my post simply because it was not.
I said both sides would have biased opinions that the devs could not just take at face value. And with both sides being at odds as to what is good and what needs fixing, that puts the devs in the middle having to choose who to believe, without proper data to support it.
None of that has anything to do with lying. Killers mains have one point of view that doesn't see the survivor side of things. Survivors mains have a point of view that does not see the killers' side of things. Then there are people that are just don't understand the game. All of them putting up skewed points of view without lying.
I already said that I played both sides, so I see both points of view. Most of the posts I have on these forums have pointed out that the game balance favors survivors, so I know what is going on. My point was that the devs clearly need to see the hard data to convince them of that fact. Their old data, apparently (according to them), did not show this, so all the talk in the world wasn't going to change their minds. Hopefully the new data they start getting will show them just how wrong they were, and then they will start balancing things properly, instead of a bunch of bandaid fixes that do little in solving the real problems.
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@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2488088#Comment_2488088
Any change would make more work for bhvr whether its smaller maps or a second objective or buffing lower tier killers...the only work that matters when it comes to balance is cosmetics and lots of them
I didn't say it would make "more work" for them, I said "unnecessary work". Making changes that wouldn't improve the game would be a waste of time, just like them making changes to fix things that aren't broken, or making changes to address the symptoms rather than the actual problems.
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The new skill based matchmaking system was only implemented a few days ago, so everyone was starting, essentially from zero. The old MM system, which is what you are seeing, was a poor indication of a players skill. Unfortunately, you started playing at the implementation of the new system, so you may be going up against players who have more skill than you. They will be moving up in rank, though, and things will eventually normalize for you, and you should start being paired with players around the same skill level as you. Just bad timing. Sorry.
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You DC against Wraith? Really? And if they are using POP and BBQ, that encourages them to go away from the hook, not camp it. You don't seem to really understand the game, no wonder you have problems.
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Incentive? To play against better people and challenge yourself.
As for the debate about it being a survivor sided game, and that's the reason you don't want to go to higher MMR as a killer, give the system time to work. If the system works as it should, that should become clearly evident to the devs, and they start fixing things accordingly. I think that it was a huge mistake to hide the system from the players, though.
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@latinfla4 said:
1)Maps dont need to be shortened
2)gens dont need to be modded
3) heck even a second objective isnt needed.
2 hooks and a survivor is gone there is your sbmm balance. Add the third hook time to the two hooks. Moris are disabled...they are trash right now anyway.
Fix camping and tunneling around that change.
You can't balance the game around SWF's without hurting the game for solo queues, and you can't have separate versions of the game. The devs have enough trouble with one.
I'd much rather have a second objective than fewer hooks.
Tunneling would likely increase, as killers can get people out of the game even faster, and get the win. I doubt camping would change either. Those that camp would still camp. And since camping and tunneling are considered valid tactics, there is nothing to fix there.
A change like that would not improve the game and would just make a lot of unnecessary work for the devs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
@illusion It's a pain to try and find a good game, I cannot have the best match ever only to prove this, you take it or not https://youtu.be/xvF8qTuz7x0
You kind of have to, though. You see that right? Especially since your initial comment was, essentially, a "get good" response to those that feel he is weak. How can you maintain that a killer is top tier when going against survivors that would make any killer look good? Plus, there are many survivors that are new to playing against PH, and are confused by the mechanics. New killers are always a challenge, especially to survivors that are less skilled. A killer can only be considered top tier when going up against the best survivor players.
You don't have to have the best game ever, just games against top tier survivors. If this is the caliber of survivor you typically go against, how can you accurately judge his quality? They make him look good. You need games where the survivors play at a competent level in order to properly determine his quality. It is possible that at your ranking, he is one of the best killers for you. Maybe his playstyle just works better for you than other killers, or you just like him better, in general. That's fair, and really all that matters, for you. But that is not a good indicator of how good he is, overall, compared to top tier killers.
And, to be clear, I don't think anyone thinks he is the worst killer in the game, or anything, but he does need some tweaks to get to where he should be.
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Best bet option, in most cases, is to just do gens and not feed the camper.
If you are really good, you could distract her, and dodge her axes until she runs out. After that she is just a regular m1 killer and would have to focus on a single person, so with multiple survivors, one could get a rescue, while another is distracting her. She is less effective, in that regard, than Bubba. But if you are not confident in doing that, especially if there is no cover , then just do gens. As with all camping, it is really only effective when people don't do gens and feed the camper.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2485904#Comment_2485904
What more data do they need than when we make post after post about whats broken? And it still doesn't get fixed, they don't listen. Nemesis has had issues since launch, clear, and GLARING issues, they don't fix it and don't listen. Pinhead had glaring issues on PTB, things that could be abused, they didn't get changed. The twins, had and still do have issues with their kit, nothing changes. Tricksters kit has had and still does have problems be it add ons or otherwise, nothing truly changes. It took wraith LITERALLY YEARS to reach a viable level, despite people saying what his issues were over and over again. Freddy was able to be exploited FOR YEARS before they finally redid his kit. They don't listen, and they don't make changes fast enough to meet up with their next killer release time after time. By the time they actually fix all the sub Top 3 killers add ons and perks and overall power abilities there will be another 12+ killers released half assedly they'll have to fix yet again.
Posts are irrelevant. People are biased, numbers are not. Look at the completely different viewpoints between survivor mains and killer mains. Who should they trust? You are clearly a killer main, so your opinion is skewed in that direction, and is not objective. The same with survivor mains. One side says that something needs to be change, and the other side says that it is fine as it is. Who is right? Even for those of us that play both sides, we will have biases based on our own experiences and preferences, so even some of our opinion will be subjective, no matter how objective we try to be. Numbers are completely objective. The problem has been that their numbers were based off of faulty data, and that's what they were using to determine what they felt were the "truths". If the new system works properly, they should start seeing more accurate data, and see where the problems really lie, especially at the highest ranks. If certain killers can't compete at the same level as others, it should become obvious. If killers, in general, can't compete with survivors because the game mechanics favor survivors, it will show in the numbers.
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Well it will take time before you get matched with people of your own caliber, so be patient with that. I do hope you reported them. That is against the rules. Camping and tunneling are not, but working with the killer, most definitely, is.
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You need to let it run for more than a couple of days. It needs to average out. Until then you will have good games and bad games. Eventually, you should start seeing more consistent games. The top tier is where any major issues between survivors and killers will really show, and the differences between the different killers. Hopefully that will give the devs better data to work with, for balancing the game. Let it do its work.
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Or play, the game without caring if you win or lose, just do your best and have fun. I*f you lose, you will go down in mmr and end up where you should be once it all averages out. If they want to play sweaty, let them. The only one you hurt by getting upset, is yourself. Also, coming here to rant and insult people does not help your case. You hurt all killers by acting like that.
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Honestly, yeah, it has been less fun as a survivor, but still less stressful than playing killer. Hopefully, with the new system, the killers that want to play like that will pass me buy. And, since I don't like to play that way as killer, hopefully the sweaty survivor groups will also pass me by, and I can play as chill as I want. I like winning as much as the next person, but don't like making other people's games less fun.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2485606#Comment_2485606
I will make sure to bump this thread tomorrow with another video, to please you... against "better" survivors.
:D
Not sure why you put "better" in quotes. Those were bad survivors, and the quotes seems to indicate that you don't see that. I am much better than they were, and I am a middling survivor, at best. To be fair, they could have been playing chill on purpose because they were trying to figure out how the new killer's mechanics worked. Unfortunately, you can't prove how powerful PH is by showing about as chill a match as I have ever seen. If you want to prove he is a t1 killer, then you are going to have to do it in a sweaty high MMR game against really skilled survivors.
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I always said that the old system made bad survivors think they were better than they were because it was far too easy for them to level. I am a bit more introspective, and realized that I did not deserve my rank, but many people have egos that don't allow them to think that way, so the new system is a shock for them. Being paired with survivors as good as yourself can only be a good thing.
I think high level killers are going to have a tougher time. Maybe this will be a good thing for the game. No longer will we have good killers going up against bad survivors, that had ranks higher than their skill level, and skewing the analytics of the game. Then, hopefully, the devs will see the problems more clearly and make more meaningful changes. The game should be balanced for both sides, and if it turns out that that balance is not there, then it should get fixed
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2485553#Comment_2485553
As you want my friend, a video... even Lerys <3
Don't mean to offend, but that video does not show any great skill by you landing skill shots, or strength of the killer. What it showed was low skill survivors playing poorly, and you making easy skill shots while missing harder ones (like most people). Hell, that first survivor ran right toward you and let you hit her, then you chased her down and she trapped herself in the shower. And, several other times the survivors were just standing there waiting for you. That was not high level game play, and Clown could have easily done a much better job.
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That video was entirely about Wraith and his capabilities at high mmr. You can't balance the game around a single killer, because that would make the better killers OP. There comes a point where you need to balance the killer with the game, not the other way around.
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EDITed. What sorry, not sure why the first paige is showing posts from 2018
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The killer cannot be reported for sniping. It is not against any rules. However, a killer and survivor working together is against the rules and can be reported. What I don't get is what the streamer was helping the killer do, prior to finding you, and why they were helping them if all they wanted was for the killer to kill them. That makes no sense, and sounds like a cya statement because they knew it would come back and bite them. Hopefully you reported them at the end of the match.
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Is this just some thought experiment, or do you think that would benefit the game. If the latter, you should elaborate on why you think it would make the game better. Frankly, it would be such a bad idea, it would never even be considered.
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I got mori'd last night. It was more of a fun option, though. I was the last survivor and would have died on the hook anyway, so why not go out with some flair. :)
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Probably for the same reason survivors escape using a key and leave their teammates behind. They are only concerned with escaping, and don't care about leaving people behind.
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Feeling dirty is up to you. When you saw they were not a skilled, you could have just had fun taking it easy on them and just going for scares and some hooks. If you wanted to play hard against them, that's fine. I'm just not sure why you would, and then feel dirty about it.
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This is not a valid question. It starts out with the idea that killers are OP, and then goes on to suggest that they would still be OP without meta perks. Killers are not OP. They just seem that way to unskilled players. I don't find any of the "meta" killers to be unfun to go against. Non-meta killers, like Trapper, bother me far more. It's not that he is OP, but I will ultimately step on a trap that I don't see, and that gets into my head. Most problems that some survivors have with killers is on their side, not the killers.
And, of course they would be easier without meta perks, just like survivors would be.
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Nah, that wouldn't help. Technician only helps you, anyway. The others only help if they are nearby and you can all work on the gens together...not what you really want to see, especially if they are not used to working on gens. One misses a skill check, or the killer finds your group, and your perks are useless. You need more perks that are going to help you. If you end up being the one doing most of the gens, you don't want to get downed.
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@Terro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1893189#Comment_1893189
When? During a live stream?
Yeah. I don't remember the exact number, but I do remember that the chance for escaping on the first attempt is actually lower, but it increases with each attempt.
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@FrostySeal said:
I'm asking this because from what I've on this forumn is that most killers will talk about how all they get are toxic 4 man SWF every game or how every single round they play they encounter toxic survivors who tell them to off themselves.
I usually always sit around rank 1 or 2 as killer and mostly play Oni, Blight, Nurse, and Huntress. In 98 percent of my matches usually I'll have a easy time beating the survivors, unless they're more coordinated or smarter but even in those situations i still usually end up winning with a 3 or 4k. I cant remember the last time I've ever encountered a 4 man SWF that was toxic nor a 4 man SWF that had OoO and 3 brand new parts with a key.
I have had extremely stressful games as killer, but usually those are pretty rare...does anyone else have the same experience as me?
Matchmaking in the game sucks, and is going to pair you with whoever it needs to in order to make a game. If you are sitting at rank one, many of your opponents will be below you. More importantly, rank is not a proper indicator of skill. Survivors rank up more quickly than killers, so a rank 1 killer would likely be better than most rank 1 survivors. Survivors of equal skill to your own are going to be much tougher. Hopefully the new MMR system will be able to properly gauge skill.
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LOL I bet. All those Head On's, especially if coordinated, would really suck.
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I think that most cases are accidental. I have done it myself, on occasion. I felt bad, but it was completely unintentional....and people have done it to me.
That said, I have no doubt that some people do do it intentionally. One time I ducked into a corner when the killer was chasing another survivor and downed them near where I was hiding. The killer just stood over them. I figure that if the killer hooked them nearby I could get a quick rescue, or if the killer left them slugged I could help them recover. Instead of recovering, the survivor crawled right to me, bringing the killer with them. I was trapped in the corner and got downed easily. I still have no idea what they were thinking.
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As a strategy, not really a good idea. Besides, if you have been successfully evading the killer for a number of gens, why would you be concerned with tunneling? Just do it again.