illusion
illusion
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@anarchy753 said:
It'd be nice to have the honest answers out there;
"Your MMR is going to stay hidden, because as long as it is you can't post a screenshot that shows how unbalanced your match was, and we can continue this narrative that it's working brilliantly."
This ^^
That is the only reason. They know that the matchmaking is not working, and by hiding it we can't show how badly it is matching players, like people used to do with the old system. They don't care about toxicity. There is so much toxic behavior that they simply ignore, and even some that they have bred themselves. The toxicity argument is just an excuse.
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Yeah, it was a terrible analogy, with any sport. Individual players can be awesome, but if their team doesn't play well, they lose. All the players have their own stats that show how good they are: Goals, assists, shots on goal, touchdowns, yards rushing, receptions, etc... The skill of the players is still seen even if their team sucks and can't win games.
If anything, it shows exactly why the SBMM doesn't work. It is not based on the players skill. Making the analogy even more invalid is that survivors don't lose or win as a team. The best player can carry the team and die on a single hook, while the worst player can get a win by simply hiding and doing as little as possible. While the survivors should be playing as a team, the SBMM system makes it so they are playing as 4 individuals out for themselves.
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No. It puts too much power in the hands of the killer. From the things you said, it appears that you expect the killer to continue playing to try and win. That is the opposite of what a player suiciding on the hook is doing. They are intentionally losing. It would only be remotely viable if the killer is completely conceding a loss and the survivors are automatically given a win. It would be completely messed up to let the killer control something like that otherwise. Also, it would have zero effect on hackers, and they cannot balance a game or create mechanics for the game simply because hackers exist. Their dev time would be better spent on combating hackers directly.
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Perfectly legit, but scary as hell for survivors doing that gen. That's why it is good to run perks like spine chill, so you can tell if the killer is coming that way.
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762106#Comment_2762106
I agree that the current system needs to be tweaked, but shouldn't account for everything. It's just possible to do. Tracking and actually implementing it into a system that reads all these different variables and then makes decisions based on these variables are two different things. Queue times alone would be far more ridiculous than they've ever been.
I'm also curious to see what all the face camping killers do when the ability to do that is removed. They mentioned in a previous one that camping was being looked at, and now with the conversation about the bt basekit, it does lead me to believe they're currently working on that. I doubt they'll make BT as it is basekit, but I imagine they're working on something to eliminate or reduce the effectiveness of camping.
The thing is that they were already using that stuff to rank players in the previous system, so it can certainly be done. The problem was that it gave too much value to certain things and allowed people to rank up way above their actual skill level. All they really need to do is tweak those numbers and remove any stuff that is not really skill based. I imagine that it would need to be tweaked over time, but it would be better than this mess. I don't expect it to account for everything you do, just the main skills. It also wouldn't affect queue times. It just affects your rank, like it always has. Your points give you a rank at the end of the match, and it is already calculated by the time you queue up for the next match.
Not to mention, when you are in a situation where you know you are not going to win, it tends to make a lot of people just give up. Why keep playing if you know that nothing you do will matter? It encourages, suiciding, DCing, or just going afk for the rest of the match. That isn't fun for anyone, and people tend to stop playing games that they don't find fun. It's worse for survivors because a lot of whether you win or lose has to do with the other survivors. If they suck, then you can see you have no chance of escaping. And all your rescues, gen work and chases mean nothing. Plus, you know you will be teamed with bad players in your next match too.
I'm not sure what they can or will do about face-camping. It was them that told everyone that it was a valid tactic, encouraging people to do it even more. I think if they do anything to remove face-camping, which I hope they do, they will also have to address why killers feel that they need to face-camp (outside of the lazy players and griefers). If they tell killers they can't face camp and keep the current kills = Win system, there will be a huge backlash.
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IDK, it seems much better to nerf in smaller amounts and see how things work rather than over-nerfing (which is never good). Usually when they over-nerf it takes forever for them to fix it, if ever.
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Nah. First of all, it would make the queue even longer. Second, people that want to play niche builds typically want to see how they do in real gameplay. They don't want an easier matchup in order to make it work.
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@Advorsus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2762050#Comment_2762050
I think you misunderstood his point. If a person gets 8 hooks but isn't able to secure kills, why put him against even harder opponents next time? And vice versa, why should it be counted as a loss for survivors when they get hooked?
What you're asking for is separate systems, one calculating killer hooks, kills, chase times, and anything else it could calculate. And another for survivor chases, hooks, unhooks, Healing, gens, escaping ect..
What you're asking for is astronomical and isn't done by any other game, let alone a niche one like DBD.
Even league of legends, millions of online players, has only one system. Did you win? MMR goes up? Did you lose? MMR goes down. How much it goes up and down, is based upon your past games, and the people you're currently facing. That's it. It has nothing to do with in game stats. And they've had SBMM for years and have tweaked it almost every year.
DBD is an asymmetrical game, one that just introduced SBMM a few months ago. And is not so easily defined as, did you lose/win, because it's 4v1.
As they said, the calculating part is doing well, but the backfill is not. The prioritizing of skilled opponents vs time spent in queue isn't working out, so they're updating it.
I will say I would like to see it become a little less easy To reach high MMR, but that's neither here nor there.
I did not misunderstand his point, I just disagree with it. If a person gets 8 hooks, they could have easily gotten kills if they face-camped or tunneled. I would say that they are more skilled than a face-camping Bubba. If they go against better players and still get a lot of hooks but few kills, they are doing fine. If they start getting fewer hooks, they will drop into a rank they belong at.
Likewise, a survivor that carries the team but gets hooked once and is not rescued by their much less skilled teammates, should not be penalized because of who they are matched with. It's actually worse for survivors because when you lose you get teamed up with even worse teammates.
What I'm asking for is not astronomical. They were already tracking those things and using them in the old system. The problem was that the value that they gave to everything was not an accurate representation of overall skill. All they really needed to do was tweak the numbers of what they were already using.
Even worse is that it has led to more toxic gameplay. Killers are only concerned with kills so face-camping and tunneling is the norm. Not fun for the players on the receiving end. Survivors are far less altruistic now and it has become an everyman for themselves situation. It has even led to BM stuff that I rarely saw before, like deliberate body blocking so that the killer will get that person instead of them. In LoL, you win or lose as a team. In DbD, each survivor wins or loses individually, solely based on whether they escape or not, making escaping individually the sole focus, rather than escaping as a team. People that do little, but escape, should not be elevated while people that do all the heavy lifting, but get killed on a single hook because those other people don't want to risk going for the rescue, lose rank.
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I totally disagree with their view that kills and escapes are valid indicators of skill. Their football and hockey analogies were flawed. Players on the teams have their own stats which indicate how good they are as individual players. Even if they are on a team with bad coaching or other players that are not playing up to the same standard, we know that that player is good, and if they get traded to a better team, they get more wins. Look at Barry Sanders. One of the best running backs ever, but he was on a bad team. He did well regularly, but the team had trouble winning games. The team's losing record was not an indicator of his skill as a player. Instead, we look at his personal stats to see how good he was. Rushing yards, yards per carry, receptions, etc...
If you are just looking at kills and escapes, you are ignoring the individual stats, and only looking at the final outcome. For survivors the game ignores rescues, gen repairs, killer looping, etc.. For killers they ignore hooks, chases, downs, and more. A survivor can play amazing but die on their first hook because their teammates sucked. The fact that they did not escape has little to do with their individual skill.
He also said that a killer who gets a lot of hooks but few kills is not that skilled. It takes a lot of skill to hunt down and hook survivors, say, 8 times in a match. Certainly, far more skill than a face-camping Bubba. I get that escapes and kills should be a factor, but it should not be the only factor. To me, they are just being lazy, and it is hurting the game. Good survivors who play all of the aspects of the game well should rank up, even if they don't escape. They will likely get more escapes when they are matched with better teammates. Killers should rank up based on everything they did accomplish, even if they didn't get a bunch of kills.
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Learn to avoid killers other than by looping them.
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That would only be viable if all perks were of equal value. Since perks are nowhere near balanced, that just wouldn't work.
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@KeiOrtem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2604000#Comment_2604000
Thats what I ended up doing, only reason I was greedy was I wanted to get a challenge done involving killing survivors. I really hate those challenges as they honestly arent that fun. I was able to get them all down luckily and finished my challenge. I'm perfectly fine with a 2k or even less in a normal scenario but when it involves challenges that require things like hooking or killing. I want to get them done quickly as I dont get to play the game much due to work and other things.
I feel ya. It doesn't help that, on the survivor side, there are challenges specifically for placing boon totems, and cosmetics are involved. They really want to sell the new survivor.
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2k's are the average the devs are going for. Trying to maintain a 3 gen is greedy. Just go for the best chase you can, and get one of them, rather than trying for a 4k.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2603946#Comment_2603946
You say that, but considering that the average game still ends up with 2+ dead, I'd say overall killers still have it too easy. Gens definitely can be done too quickly, but until you can't just camp someone out of the game within three minutes, I don't see a way to fix it.
It exists like that because otherwise you could just camp everyone out of the game every game and guarantee the 4k. Pause the hook timer if the killer is within 32m and we can talk about what to do about gen speeds to slow the game down as a whole.
Well, that is the thing. Camping got worse when Ruin got changed, then got even worse when the MMR made it all about kills. Fix gen times AND the camping situation, seems like a good deal to me. Both currently suck....and change the stupid MMR system.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2603846#Comment_2603846
You don't see all of the anti mmr threads? They are almost as common as tunneling and camping threads nowadays.
But yeah, I think we are committed to this. They will obviously make adjustments as we go, but the general idea of the mmr is here to stay.
I could be wrong, but I think they meant they don't see comments by the devs on the many threads, by users, pointing out the problem.
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Might carry a little more weight if you posted that on a main account rather than creating a new scrub account.
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@Inspire said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2602880#Comment_2602880
Black face is still a thing and can still be done by people. I hope you know that.
Hence the "barring a few isolated incidents" part of what I said. It is not something that is common or that people do publicly. If some racists do it at a white supremist party, copying that style from the vaudeville era, yeah, it can happen. This is not that.
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@Ghoste said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2603706#Comment_2603706
BS. They're gloating when they teabag in the gate lol. Maybe you do it for points, but I guarantee most other people do it to pour salt in the wound.
Not sure how you KNOW what their intention is. I do know there are people that do it to be toxic, but back in the day, it wasn't that way, and I imagine many from those days still see it that way. Me, I don't teabag at the gate. I figure if the killer wants the extra points and knows about it, they will chase me out. If they don't, I just leave. Too much room for misinterpretation, and the few extra points aren't worth it. :-)
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Dude, don't take offense. They may not be trying to be disrespectful. They may be trying to get you to come and hit them. More points for you (chase or chase + hits), more points for them. There aren't a lot of ways to communicate in the game, so for many that simply means come and hit me and get some points. Survivors use the same motion when greeting each other in-game, or thanking another survivor for a heal.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2603525#Comment_2603525
If we assume they actually wanted to design an effective system for players of all skill levels: I imagine they thought quantifying skill would be a lot simpler than it really is, and as they got deeper and deeper into it they realized they bit off more than they could chew. Map RNG affects chases and outcomes way too much. The actions of individuals greatly tilt the odds of survival as a whole.
To truly gauge survivor skill, you have to factor in chase time, safe unhooks, game length, average total escapes (the whole team), personal escapes, etc., over a ton of games and compare that to the average of all players. Tracking all of that data and analyzing it is a massive undertaking. Then you get into stuff that is much harder to quantify in terms of positioning, efficiency, etc. True SBMM for survivors is looking at individual performance relative to the mean. And I guarantee they don't have a sabermetrician or three on staff.
So yeah, ideally the system could say "well, this survivor has longer chases than most and dies a lot. But their team tends to escape at a higher rate than average, so this survivor is probably performing well above average despite a low personal escape rate."
Well, yeah. I mean, they were already using some of that data in the emblem system, which was being used for matchmaking. It seems like they could have used that same data, but tweaked it so that the numbers more accurately represented skill, without the additional points it gave, and dividing it up into emblems and caps. Since escapes and kills were already factored in, it would have been more accurate of a skill indicator. It may not have been a perfect indicator of skill, as you say, but it would have been much closer than what we have now. At least with that, a skilled survivor that does well through most of the match but dies on a single hook, wouldn't feel like they wasted their time, and worse, wouldn't get punished for it, while survivors that did very little get rewarded. That survivor should get bumped up in the MMR, while survivors that ONLY escape, but contribute little else, go down. I don't see why that stuff can't be factored in.
Seriously, escapes and kills seems like something that would get suggested on day one of spitballing on how to create an MMR system, not something you would see after long-term thought on the matter.
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@[Deleted User] said:
"There's too much nuance to make it a real effective system" - Patrick on recent Q&A stream
There's two ways i interpret this :
- Using all of the data that's collected would ultimately not result in an accurate skill rating for this game. Simply going off the results is more accurate
- It's too difficult to make a skill rating system for this game that uses in-match data instead of the results.
But the system we got is not effective. At least calculating some skill based factors would be better than none. That seems like a cop-out response from them, especially since they were using the emblem system info for MM before.. All they really would have needed to do was tweak the numbers from the emblem system to more accurately represent skill levels.
@Crowman said:
A problem with chase data is that some killers by design simply don't start chases.
Wraith cannot start a chase while cloaked and if the wraith is good he's landing a hit every uncloak and not spending a lot of time uncloaked.
Victor does not start a chase either.
Which is fine. there is still plenty of other data to use. Never really paid close attention to how they worked in the emblem system. Did they just get screwed by that. It seems like they should be some other way to compensate for that.
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IDK. I do know there have been some recent posts that were just being sarcastic, not meant to be taken seriously. Not sure if those are the ones you are referring to. Someone did warn them about Poe's Law. :)
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@Clevite said:
Second objective....um...let's see.
I know, save teammates, heal teammates, waste the killer's time running around things, cleanse hex totems.
Or maybe, Sabo some hooks, take hits for teammates, open chests, pallet saves...
I don't know. If we could only think of one more thing survivors could be doing.
Those aren't secondary objectives. Those are things of self preservation. Secondary objectives are things you would be required to do, rather than just gen rushing and escaping. Something that benefits the killer. Totems were supposed to do that, but NOED, is clearly not a big enough incentive to do them.
Frankly, if another secondary objective was implemented, I would like it to be something a little more active, not something where you just hold m1 for a certain amount of time.
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He's not cheap, you just have to learn to play differently around his ability. And, zombies are a minor annoyance, at best. I'd much rather deal with them than Chain Hunt.
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LOL yeah, that will fix things. That's part of how we got here to begin with. Good luck with your new strategy, I'm sure it will work out well for you.
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2603318#Comment_2603318
bro I hate to say this but now your just arguing to argue
when even stalkyboi the man with probably the most hours on Myers in all of dbd (which I think last I checked he said he had 5k or 7k hours on just myers) and the most skilled and familiar myers player on YouTube considers him low tier I think the point has been made
Funny how I point out you are using logical fallacies, rather than making points, and you accuse me of arguing to argue. You aren't debating the points I make, just repeating the same things over and over, like talking tier lists, which I already pointed out was not a factor. This is clearly not a productive discussion, and we have hijacked the thread long enough with it.
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@SilentShepherd said:
Eh. Just had another game where the Survivors gen rushed me and flashlight spammed to save each other and won the match in less than 10 mins. Nothing I could do, only hooked 2 times. They followed me with flashlights when I had someone on my back to hook. They were ultra-team oriented and running to each other to heal each other at all times, nobody stayed injured for long.
I'm starting to realize this game sucks for Killers.
Sorry to hear that. You could leave lobbies when you see flashlights, if that is a huge problem. Franklin's demise really helps, as will lightborn. Eventually you will get used to playing around flashlights, and you can move on to other perks.
That said, the game is really survivor sided, especially with there just not being enough killers in the game and matches not being properly balanced because of it.
@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2602800#Comment_2602800
I think I'm just going to give this game one more day, and if I still feel this game is ######### for Killers, I'll just wait for Propnight. The beta was really fun for killers.
Yeah, that sucks. I imagine we lose a lot of new killers because of this. Unfortunately the devs just won't listen. I cannot blame you, if you aren't having fun there is no sense putting yourself through the that. Don't know how you feel about playing survivor. You can use the blood points you earn as survivor, on your killers. Hope things go better for you, if not, best of luck.
Have not heard of Propnight, I will have to check it out. Dowsey, a DBD streamer, has been beta testing a similar game called VHS. He's put out a couple of videos on it, including a gameplay one they gave him permission to put up.
Cheers.
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2603180#Comment_2603180
if playing badly shows a lack of skill how does playing good show skill? I've never played nurse either but I promise you I could get a 4k vs potatoes how do you know the survivors these killers are facing are actually any good
tier lists are opinions your right but when 3/4 of the community all agree I would say it almost becomes a fact if there's 100 people in a room and 75 say the sky is blue then yeah I would say its blue that's pretty fair
yes tier lists might only be useful at high mmr but if your actually good at the game then your gonna hit high mmr eventually and its gonna be hell there is youtubers that put him not in that tier but I'd argue that the youtuber with 100 hours is not nearly as knowledgeable as guys like dowsey and otz with a combined hour count of 15k hours
Yes, and Otz did a 50 wins challenge with every killer, using no addons, including Meyers, who he doesn't even play that much, normally. Do you think he is regularly facing potato survivors? Tru3ta1ent and other youtubers play Meyers much more frequently, so are probably even better with him. Most people put pig at bottom tier, but Dowsey disagrees and considers her B tier, A tier when learned to play well. Is he wrong? Is everyone else wrong? Maybe he thinks she is better than others think she is because he plays her a lot and has learned to do well with her....the same as skilled Meyers players feel about him.
I don't understand the point of your last paragraph. Tier lists are only good for high MMR, but if you are good enough you will hit high MMR eventually? What does that have to do with anything? The OP is nowhere near high MMR, and most people will never hit high MMR. The majority of the player base are not competitive players, so they can do well with any killer, and there are far worse killers than Meyers. You are using logical fallacies to try and make your point. Introducing the idea that I am talking about youtubers with only 100 hours is disingenuous, at best. It is a fabrication to try and dismiss what I said. Why would I watch youtubers that only have a hundred hours of gameplay? If I am better than they are, they aren't worth watching.
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2603107#Comment_2603107
I guess well just have to agree to disagree then cause if vids with people doing bad doesn't matter vids of people doing good shouldn't either that's just hypocrisy idk about you but in any game any character in any game in c or d tier I would say sucks hard but ig we will have to agree to disagree if c or d tier doesn't suck to you I would hate to see what does
How is it hypocrisy? Playing badly shows a lack of skill. Any killer can look bad when played by a low skilled player. Doing well, however, shows that the killer is not bad, otherwise they couldn't do well. Not sure how that isn't obvious. I have never attempted to play Nurse. If I went into a game today and played her, I would make her look really bad. Does that mean she is bad?
Tier lists are opinions, not facts, but you act as if they are facts. Also, as I stated several times, they are only relevant for high MMR gameplay. I can use clown and do well at low and mid ranks and, in fact, I have. And, as I pointed out earlier, there are youtubers out their that don't put him into those tiers, and at least one, recently said they consider him top 4.
But, yes, we can agree to disagree.
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2602938#Comment_2602938
just like there's plenty of videos of myers getting dominated, I'm telling you I'm not saying myers is stupid bad but to say hes a strong killer is just a wrong argument when pretty much the whole community would rate him as c or d tier
First, tier ranks are made for top tier gameplay. Pretty much all killers can do well at low and mid ranks, and meyer is certainly better than some other killers. It's when you start approaching the higher tiers where killers start falling away. Plus, the fact that there are some videos of people doing badly with him is irrelevant. There are plenty of videos of people doing badly with nurse, blight, Oni, Spirit, etc. The fact that there are people that can do well with him is all that matters. Anyone can suck with any killer. Meyers is easy to learn and has some great strengths. Good for a new player, once you get used to the stalking aspect.
Second, I never said he was a strong killer. I said that he didn't suck. Big difference.
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2602890#Comment_2602890
people that play in tournaments still play the game normally like when they are off work and stuff you realize that right? just cause your swf doesn't automatically make you high mmr you still have to build it up and we still dont know how many games that takes so yes there can be good swfs at low mmr ######### there's swfs that stream and purposely throw games and die to lower their mmr on purpose now that we know mmr is only based on escapes and kills
OMG That is just a silly argument. Look, that is an extremely rare situation, that the vast majority of people will never come across, and even then likely not more than once. Plus, if you go against a team like that, with any killer, you are going to lose. There are tons of videos of high MMR players on youtube doing extremely well with Meyers. Just because you can't play him well, doesn't mean others can't.
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2602806#Comment_2602806
I'm not talking about mmr I'm saying any halfway decent swf at any mmr low or high will destroy a myers even a good one like I said there's a reason he isn't picked in tournament think about that
Anyone playing in a tournament is not at low or mid MMR, so that is irrelevant. Good swf's are not going to be at low and mid MMR's. And the swf's that are, are not that big of a threat. On top of that, most of the player base is solo queue, anyway.
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@RemoveBubbaBlack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2602823#Comment_2602823
That’s not how racism works at all. There’s no such thing as whiteface
There's no such thing as blackface anymore either. Blackface was a face painted on white people that exaggerated certain features, and used in stereotypical ways, and that hasn't been a real thing for almost a century (barring a few isolated incidents). That is not what is happening here. This kind of reminds me of when a plyer in the game Marvel Heroes complained because you could attack black criminals, despite the majority of them being white. They said it felt racist. However, that is because they saw them as black people, rather than just seeing them as people, much like what you are doing.
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@Daddy_Doctor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2601427#Comment_2601427
Tru3 doesn’t let stream choose his perks, he charges them $10 for the privilege or $50 if the build makes the killer/survivor weaker.
Didn't know how it worked, but that is how twitch, patreon, and such works these days. Instead of people just donating to the stream, they get a perk for it. I don't see a problem. I only watch the vids, though, so don't see how it works. I do remember that he used to charge for the card packs where he had to do what was on the cards. The point is that it makes things interesting, rather than killers/survivors just playing with meta perks.
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2601605#Comment_2601605
I just wanna say that idk what your talking about cause myers definitely does suck there's a reason you would lose as myers every single time if you play vs a good swf
Well, first of all, there are players that do great with meyers at high MMR, and consider him a great killer, one felt that he was top 4. That said, the OP is not playing at high MMR, and at low and mid tier MMR he is a decent killer. If the MMR system actually worked, the OP should not be playing against a good SWF.
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Only going to get worse, since they flaunt it on streams and still nothing gets done about it. This is the new reality of DbD.
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They do, but they are not very good at it. If their pride didn't get in the way, they could bring in skilled players from the community to help them determine what the real problems are and what the best way is to fix them, and then test them. Other game developers have done this. Instead, they keep relying on flawed data, to tell them how to balance the game.
btw, NOED is not too strong, just annoying when you have to face it. And while tunneling is frustrating, it is part of the game. The devs consider it a legitimate tactic. Besides, there are ways to counter both.
Of course, the devs are directly responsible for the increase in camping and tunneling. They have made terrible decisions that keep making things worse.
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Myers doesn't suck, you just need to get better at playing him. I mean, if you really like him, you make make a decent go of it with him. You are new to the game and his stalk mechanic takes some getting used to, and some finesse. Having his power at rank 1 is fun for jump scares, but it is not powerful. Ant tier 3, though, you can insta-down people, and is much faster. Probably not the most newbie friendly, however. You might want to cut your teeth on some more straight forward killers for a while.
Not all characters have good perks. Not a fan of any of the obsession perks, myself. You may want to rank up some killers with good perks until they are teachable, and use those on Myers.
You don't get stunned by flashlights, that is a Wraith problem (flashlight save exception to that). You get blinded, but can still move, break pallets, swing your weapon, etc... Don't flail around wildly, but if you think you can hit someone, take the shot. More importantly, if there are people with flashlights around, don't pick up the downed player. Go after the players with the flashlights. Injure them and make them run off. They only have a brief window in order to get a flashlight save. Try to angle yourself during the pickup, to avoid giving them a good shot, and not when they are close. Pick up the Franklin's Demise perk when you get the chance, that will make them drop their items when you hit them.
Honestly, you shouldn't have to face an organized group like that at your skill level, but the DBD MM system sucks.
Ignore the NOED comments. It is just engrained in to the psyche of some survivors to always complain about it. NOED only helps you at the very end of the match, which you likely aren't getting much use out of anyway. It won't stop some people from complaining, anyway. It's OK for more experienced players. Not a good newbie perk, though.
Keep plugging away. If you need to, disable post game chat. Meyers is a decent killer, so don't give up on him. Not the best, but not the worst either. Some players are really good with him, but he does take some dedication to get good with him. Maybe watch some youtube videos of people playing him. You will need better perks, as well as items and addons to make the most out of him, but don't waste them until you feel more confident playing him.
Also, check the Shrine of Secrets in the ingame store. Two killer and two survivor perks go on sale there each week. They can be purchased with in-game currency. Don't waste the shards on crap perks, though. Research them before buying any. It is a way to get some decent perks earlier.
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Geez! I didn't realize there was a bug. I thought I kept screwing up.
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Tru3Ta1ent: Plays both sides about equally, which is nice. Also does a lot of interesting stuff like letting his stream choose his perks and such.
Otz: Very informative.
Dowsey: Just started watching him recently. Very entertaining.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2599489#Comment_2599489
Map Balance is a whole other issue, I just want to play without seeing the same maps repeatedly, everyday, before being able to play on any others without an offering.
Say you put each map at 100%, after playing on that map it goes down 1-5%. By tracking the odds for each player the system would load in maps with the highest % first and keep things fresh.
I get ya. My comment had more to do with the dev team being able to pull it off. I'm a little miffed about the lazy MMR system they put out. I guess, the state that it is in, it could be used in a similar way. It is basic enough. It might take them a couple of years Of course map offerings would have to be considered, which would probably break the whole system.
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This community is well beyond that type of courtesy, at this point. Until the devs take balance, matchmaking, and toxicity seriously, it is not going to get better. There are people that already do that stuff, just because it is in their nature, but you are not going to sway any opinions here. A few years ago, that was the norm, with exceptions, of course, but we are on a very different road now.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2599465#Comment_2599465
Do you...play Solo Q at all?
I've never seen a match where the Killer has had NOED and not had it proc.
Small Game still requires you to run around looking for them, but it narrows the search.
Counterforce does the same.
You are assuming that Survivors have time to do so. You seem to think that Killers are getting one hook by the time 5 gens are done. That is not the case. These games are already down to the wire. 6-7 hooks with a Kill mixed in here and there. Spending 70 seconds cleansing totems would actually result in a 4K in those scenarios. Not only that, but the Killer may not even have it.
It's idiotic that a perk has that much power and whose only counter is to essentially throw the match.
Solo queue is all I play. Again, if you have never seen it not proc, it is because you don't have all 4 players committed to it. And, please don't talk about survivors not having enough time to cleanse totems. Time is on the side of survivors. It's 4 v 1. Killers are the ones on a time crunch. If the survivors are being outplayed, then yeah, time will be against them, but all things being equal, time is on their side. Plus, we already established that survivors seem to have plenty of time to bless totems.
Small game is great. You don't need to run around the map specifically looking for totems, just do what you normally do and when it goes off, find the totem and cleanse it. If you don't want to waste time and have a good memory, you could leave the totems and wait till NOED triggers, then run around to the places you saw the totems and cleanse the lit one, and if it doesn't trigger, you are good. Risk vs reward, up to you.
Counterforce is not the same. When you cleanse a totem it shows you the aura of another totem. Granted, still problematic for the first couple. However, maybe you have heard of these things called "maps". They can show you the auras of totems. Makes them very easy to find. I almost never see people bring maps though, because they focus on toolboxes, med kits, flashlights and keys.
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Maps just need to be balanced so they are all roughly the same for everyone. Maps can't have an MMR, because they couldn't even come up with a skill based MMR for players. Kills and escapes is the best they could come up with after years of working on it.
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@ElusivePukka said:
Each person on the survivor team should try to know two totems are down, by and large, at least for SoloQ.
I'm a killer main, but my SWF team is mostly killer mains: we suggest using Counterforce or maps over Small Game, which is really only useful for the running totem tally at this point. We had a self-designated totem hunter as well, and they ran: Counterforce, Inner Healing, Sprint Burst and a perk up for grabs, often with a medkit. I'd suggest sommat like Lucky Break or Iron Will so your friend can break from early chases.
^^ Yeah, I rarely see people using maps. Everybody gears up for gen rushing, but not for finding totems. Small game is nice, but something that highlights them for you is much better for finding them.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2599414#Comment_2599414
Again, most of my games we do not have the time to scour the map for totems.
We'd waste so much time doing so that the Killer would automatically win.
Again, that is because players, including yourself, are not committed to it. There are perks and items that allow you to locate totems, so you don't have to "scour" the map wasting time but, again, people prioritize doing gens faster, and the tools that allow them to do that. You keep making the same argument, which essentially equates to "survivors don't want to cleanse totems, so NOED needs to be changed so they don't have to.". Funny how you ignored everything else I wrote. If you are scared of NOED, cleanse the totems. If you can't be bothered, that is on you. The perk doesn't need to be changed because some survivors are just to lazy to counter it.
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No doubt, the game should allow you to reconnect. Not sure why that isn't a thing, other games can do it. However, too many people deliberately DC for various reasons, so the penalties need to be in place. It sucks that you have a bad connection, but it sucks for players you leave behind too. They want to collect all of that stuff too, which is made harder when they are playing short-handed.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2599303#Comment_2599303
It's actually 14 seconds.
How many of your random's are cleansing totems? Again, you're making an argument that you can't prove and that I can't disprove.
Blessing a totem does take time, but it also gives a massive benefit for doing so. It also doesn't really affect NOED because I've yet to see a Killer who will allow a Boon Totem to stay unsnuffed for long.
I just don't see how people can think NOED is a healthy and good perk. It does exactly what Old DS did. It forces you to play around it regardless of whether or not the player actually had it. The similarities don't end there, but you get the point.
What argument did I make that can't be proven? I never claimed that any specific number of players were cleansing totems. But there are 4 survivors and 5 totems. That's 17.5 seconds per player, on average. Hardly a great hardship. I typically cleanse at least 1 totem per game, and I see others doing it too. The problem is getting all survivors to commit to doing them. The problem is the gen rush mentality. Rush gens and escape.
Boons give them a massive benefit to bless them? That must mean that NOED, as it is now, is not enough of a threat to incentivize players to cleanse them. And, while a killer may snuff a Boon totem if they see it, they can't afford to run around looking for them. Btw, DS still forces the killer to play around it, whether the survivor has it or not. The change made it better, but didn't change that aspect. Killers still have to assume that a player is using DS.
The rise in the use of NOED came from the same place as the increase in camping, tunneling, and slugging. Gen times. As long as gen rushing is a thing, you can't keep taking away tools from killers. Doing totems will slow gen times a bit, which is why so many survivors ignore them. Gen rushing is the meta.
Your view seems to be that survivors are not cleansing totems, so NOED should be changed. Dull totems were made cleansable for a reason. NOED was meant to be a threat for a reason. The devs do not want to add another type of secondary objective, so we are left with totems and NOED. They could make it so that other perks could jump totems when cleansed, if there are dull ones available. That might add some incentive. Then it wouldn't just be about not knowing if the killer has NOED, and feeling like it's a waste of time.
Maybe if they scrapped the whole totem system and made perks, like Ruin, regular perks (like Ruin used to be), something could be worked out. And, if the devs could find a proper way to balance the game, we would be just fine. Until then...
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2599309#Comment_2599309
If getting kills isn't "playing the game," then what is?
I thought that was the killer's singular objective.
Chasing, downing, hooking. You can get kills by doing all of that, too. Standing in one spot and looking at someone on a hook is not playing the game. Not to my mind, anyway. It's only the killer's singular objective because the devs have made it that way with stupid decisions. Besides, it's not really the singular objective. Another objective is to get bloodpoints, and another is to have fun.
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1) You get more BP
2) Getting kills just moves your MMR up so that you get sweatier matches
3) What's the point of getting kills if you aren't actually playing the game
Just because the devs came up with this lazy MMR system, doesn't mean you have to play into it.